Linda (Australia) Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Well, we finally received our package of the new WTM this week! I feel I've waited so long - so it's wonderful to finally have it in my hands. I'm finding it very interesting as to what is still there in the recommendations, and what isn't - but I've only had a quick skim-through thus far. Was there anything that really suprised you in the new edition? I'm glad Life of Fred got a mention - my son is loving these! Any disappointments? Any new-found delights? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in Australia Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 I haven't read the whole book yet, but I really liked the way history is done in the rhetoric stage, we have adjusted how we use history of the ancient world,and the boys are finding it much more enjoyable. I have also changed the way we are doing logic history to how it is laid out in the new WTM. I haven't really compared it to how it was laid out in the older WTM to see if it is different or if I had just got off track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CookieMonster Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 :lurk5: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom2agang Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 My book should be here any day! The suspense is killing me and then you talk about enjoying it! Aaaahhhhh!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyThreeSons Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 A copy is being sent over from another branch. I've got a lot of planning and thinking to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asta Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 I think the paper the ink is printed on is too thin. The "end" pages are a nice thickness. I would never be able to highlight the "reading" pages, though - they are a step up from onion skin. This bothers me, as I had the "old" edition from the library, and it had nice paper. Content wise, it seems fine, so far. a Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melora in NC Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Like you, I was pleased to see her comments on Fred! And I have been wondering what she thinks about Classical Writing, so that bit was helpful. The "alternatives" that she added to the rhetoric section were helpful to me also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CookieMonster Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 I think the paper the ink is printed on is too thin. The "end" pages are a nice thickness. I would never be able to highlight the "reading" pages, though - they are a step up from onion skin. This bothers me, as I had the "old" edition from the library, and it had nice paper. Asta, this is exactly the sort of thing I notice about books. I thought I was an oddball. Content is certainly of utmost importance ;) . But page thickness, type setting, etc., affect me greatly. Thanks for this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melora in NC Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 I think the paper the ink is printed on is too thin. The "end" pages are a nice thickness. I would never be able to highlight the "reading" pages, though - they are a step up from onion skin. a This is true. My ds accidentally dripped glue on my book, which was open to the list of literature for Grammar Stage (Medieval/Early Renaissance, 400-1600), and the glue did Not wipe off well.:glare: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedHen6 Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Any disappointments? Any new-found delights? In no particular order: I've done some page-by-page comparison with the 2nd edition and the 3rd edition, mainly in the science recommendations for logic stage. In the 2nd edition, it seemed as if you did the book work first, then chose an experiment to complement that. The 3rd edition seems more experiment-driven, with bookwork afterward to complement the experiment! I liked that. We have never successfully "done" science, but we're giving it a shot again for next year! RightStart Math was mentioned for the grammar stage--I was pleased to see that. In general, I thought there were more recommendations for subject curricula than in the past. In some ways, that can be confusing--but in others, it frees you up a bit to pick and choose what works without feeling guilty about it! The logic recommendations changed for logic stage--from Introductory Logic to Traditional Logic. I didn't like IL, and I haven't looked at TL yet...but I wish there was a recommendation for a more sectarian logic program, like there is for some of the other subjects (I don't like logic, of all things, mixing with faith). Maybe that's because it isn't to be found?? There is more instruction on outlining in the book--that's very good. As for dislikes: I noticed the thinner paper, too! It's not a cheap book. I wish they hadn't skimped on materials. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2_girls_mommy Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 This was my first copy to own. I used the library's 1999 edition in the past. I too noticed the paper was not good quality. Maybe this is why Amazon was able to offer it so cheaply.. $26 as opposed to going in to Barnes and Noble and buying the last edition for $40. I held off buying my own for the new one as it was cheaper and the newest, and then the paper really bugged me too. This book needs to last me the next 13 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKS Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 I was disappointed that the K12 Human Odyssey series didn't make it into the logic stage recommendations. I was also disappointed to see that a section on doing WTM with special needs kids wasn't included. Since the book claims to be secular, I wish that the primary recommendations for each subject were always secular. I'm glad Spielvogel was dropped. I think his Human Odyssey is a horrific book. I'm glad more math programs were mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Any disappointments? Any new-found delights?I was disappointed that Latin Prep and SYRWTLL series weren't included because they are by far the best grammar based secular Latin programs I've found. I understand they weren't considered because they don't have an official US distribution channel, but even Amazon US is carrying them now (in addition to many other UK published books). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swimmermom3 Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 I haven't read the whole book yet, but I really liked the way history is done in the rhetoric stage, we have adjusted how we use history of the ancient world,and the boys are finding it much more enjoyable. I have also changed the way we are doing logic history to how it is laid out in the new WTM. I haven't really compared it to how it was laid out in the older WTM to see if it is different or if I had just got off track. Melissa, can I ask what changes you made. I just finished reading the logic stage for history. This was the first home schooling book I read years ago. It was borrowed from a friend, so it's hard for me to make comparisons. I can tell you that that first reading left me feeling overwhelmed. Now, I'm excited about implementing some of the ideas, especially for history. This is probably not due to any great changes in the books but to my "maturing" as a home schooling parent:lol: As to highlighting the thin pages, my favorite green highlighter got quite a workout and all is well. Okay, I know some of you are gasping for air right now ... so I might as well confess to writing in the margins too:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tedearly Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 What are the thoughts about the Life of Fred curriculum. I am thinking about it for algebra next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keptwoman Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 I was disappointed that the K12 Human Odyssey series didn't make it into the logic stage recommendations. I was also disappointed to see that a section on doing WTM with special needs kids wasn't included. Since the book claims to be secular, I wish that the primary recommendations for each subject were always secular. I'm glad Spielvogel was dropped. I think his Human Odyssey is a horrific book. I'm glad more math programs were mentioned. Could you please tell me why you find it horrific (I haven't got it but have considered it) and what the new edition suggests be used instead? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evergreen State Sue Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 This was my first copy to own. I used the library's 1999 edition in the past. I too noticed the paper was not good quality. Maybe this is why Amazon was able to offer it so cheaply.. $26 as opposed to going in to Barnes and Noble and buying the last edition for $40. I held off buying my own for the new one as it was cheaper and the newest, and then the paper really bugged me too. This book needs to last me the next 13 years. I bought my first WTM book when my kids were your kids' ages thinking it would last me through their schooling years. I replaced it when the second WTM book came out and now there is a third one. My kids still have 6 more years of school to go! I'm thinking there will be another couple of version during that time so don't worry about it lasting 13 years! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corraleno Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 What are the thoughts about the Life of Fred curriculum. I am thinking about it for algebra next year. We *love* Life of Fred! Be sure to get the Home Companion as well, it has a lot of extra practice problems. If you search Life of Fred here and on the High School board, you will find many threads with a variety of reviews and opinions. Jackie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RanchGirl Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 I'm a little over halfway through. I was disappointed that LoF was mentioned only as a fun supplement (along the same vein as grocery store math, balance your checkbook kind stuff), not as something that could be the core of your math program. (Unless that changes later on; I've only read grammar and logic stages.) But other than that I am enjoying it. I just skimmed the first edition again last week and haven't compared side by side to see changes/ommissions, I have just noticed a lot of additions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sagira Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 I've only read the 2nd edition and I'm still reading the third edition. I'm surprised to see that - logic stage science is basically experiments and little or no solid spines - K12's History Odyssey was not mentioned - Building Foundations of Scientific Understanding was not mentioned at all I was happy to see - Life of Fred mentioned - more math programs to choose from - more outlining explanations - more reasons behind doing things - exclusions of previous programs explained - more recommendations in general - literature lists, including for grammar stage students - Books Children Love recommended I was disappointed to see - R.E.A.L. Science Odyssey not mentioned (a secular, classical science) - Spanish for Children not included as a good Spanish language program, whereas Latin for Children is - what I perceive to be a lack of more solid background and cohesive structure in logic stage science - e.g. Campbell's Biology texts included for rhetoric stage science That said, I love it! If I weren't protecting it so much from ds and especially dd (not quite two yet), it would be my bedside companion :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sagira Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 I'm a little over halfway through. I was disappointed that LoF was mentioned only as a fun supplement (along the same vein as grocery store math, balance your checkbook kind stuff), not as something that could be the core of your math program. :iagree: However, I was glad to see it was mentioned at all. I think it's because it's just a novel way of dealing with math, and so new and not so proven compared to others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 R.E.A.L. Science Odyssey not mentioned (a secular, classical science) That confounded me as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassenach Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 I think the paper the ink is printed on is too thin. The "end" pages are a nice thickness. I would never be able to highlight the "reading" pages, though - they are a step up from onion skin. This bothers me, as I had the "old" edition from the library, and it had nice paper. Content wise, it seems fine, so far. a ITA on the paper. It wrinkles very easily too. Content wise, I'm very happy with the logic section. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strawberry Queen Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 I really like the logic stage science rec's. They look like fun and something to look forward to.:001_smile: I appreciated the explanations of writing programs in the grammar stage. It's helpful to see how FLL/WWE are made to work for LA. I wasn't sure if I should be adding in more writing exercises like R&S have, but now I'm reassured that it's fine to wait to do those. I also like the music rec's for logic stage. They seem doable alongside a highly academic curr. I have to say that I focused on logic stage as my older dd is heading that way. I think I already have the grammar stage memorized after reading it so frequently. ;) TWTM was love at first sight back when my dd was 4. I'm very happily still in love and I'm investing in the relationship for the long-term.:lol: I really have to say that I love programs that give the big picture. I need to know the expected outcome of a plan before doing it. I think that's one of the reasons that WTM appealed to me in the first place.;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linda (Australia) Posted June 6, 2009 Author Share Posted June 6, 2009 One thing that really baffled me is that 'God's Design for Science' doesn't get a mention - not even as an 'alternate' text. I realise that it is a Christian series (well, duh! obviously, from the name!), and I guess mainly secular texts have been recomended, but it just fits so perfectly into the four-year rotation, and is absolutely a series based around the Classical model. As for Life of Fred - my son is using this as his main text for Math this year, and it's going well as a stand-alone text. So, yeh, would've been good to see it recommended as a 'main' math programme, but I was just happy to see it mentioned at all. As always, Susan has put together a wonderful book, full of helpful info and great resources. Now all we need to find is a writer to put together a similar book that includes Australian resources, and we'll have it all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lulubelle Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 We just received ours yesterday! And, me and my husband poured through it last night! We just finished our first year of homeschooling for k/1 for ds6 and just began a little bit with ds5. We are pretty much following her suggestions to a T. And, just organizing ourselves around her primary suggestions. Not too different from the previous book. But, fun to wrap ourselves around it again. I was happy to see her primary suggestion for Zaner-Blozer, which we have started and will strongly think about using Real science for kids. And, we are trying to collect all her read aloud suggestions from the library. Very interested in the Flyleaf 1st, 2nd, and 3rd reader series and wondering if it's worth the money!? I was also happy that she suggested the Books to Build On... by E.D. Hirsch. I have used it this year for basic intro to U.S. history and I really like the whole Core Knowledge. And, Phonics Pathways has really worked for my oldest - even though she chose to take it off her list! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 As always, Susan has put together a wonderful book, full of helpful info and great resources. Now all we need to find is a writer to put together a similar book that includes Australian resources, and we'll have it all! Have at it! Maybe a few of you here could work together?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 . Very interested in the Flyleaf 1st, 2nd, and 3rd reader series and wondering if it's worth the money!? I was also happy that she suggested the Books to Build On... by E.D. Hirsch. I have used it this year for basic intro to U.S. history and I really like the whole Core Knowledge. And, Phonics Pathways has really worked for my oldest - even though she chose to take it off her list! Wow, I missed all of that.:001_huh: I was focused on history b/c everything else for us is "continue from last year".;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cathmom Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 I just read the whole thing from A to Z and I should have taken notes because now I can't remember all my thoughts! I wish the one part would be edited where they repeat "reading is simple" over and over to say something like, "Reading is simple. But if it's not for you, keep your eye on it because your dc could have an LD." Or even just SOME acknowledgement that reading is NOT simple for some dc. I was struck by the correspondence between the grammar stage of giving them facts and the Montessori philosophy of providing them with lots of vocabulary and facts at that age as well. I was glad to see RightStart recommended since I am using that with my 5 yo and love it! My older dc are using MUS and I thought it was funny that they kept saying it was good for mathphobic parents. *I* have no problem with math - it's my dc who are mathphobic! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicole M Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 I was disappointed that the K12 Human Odyssey series didn't make it into the logic stage recommendations. I was also disappointed to see that a section on doing WTM with special needs kids wasn't included. Since the book claims to be secular, I wish that the primary recommendations for each subject were always secular. I'm glad Spielvogel was dropped. I think his Human Odyssey is a horrific book. I'm glad more math programs were mentioned. I'm curious about this, too. What do you find horrific and what is recommended instead? I am number kazillion on the waiting list for what seems to be the only one copy in our library system.... :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sagira Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 I really like the logic stage science rec's. They look like fun and something to look forward to.:001_smile: I appreciated the explanations of writing programs in the grammar stage. It's helpful to see how FLL/WWE are made to work for LA. I wasn't sure if I should be adding in more writing exercises like R&S have, but now I'm reassured that it's fine to wait to do those. I also like the music rec's for logic stage. They seem doable alongside a highly academic curr. I have to say that I focused on logic stage as my older dd is heading that way. I think I already have the grammar stage memorized after reading it so frequently. ;) TWTM was love at first sight back when my dd was 4. I'm very happily still in love and I'm investing in the relationship for the long-term.:lol: I really have to say that I love programs that give the big picture. I need to know the expected outcome of a plan before doing it. I think that's one of the reasons that WTM appealed to me in the first place.;) :iagree: I looked at my post again and wish it hadn't sounded that negative :) I enjoy reading the WTM and love the grammar stage suggestions for science, which make me relax a little bit. It's an introduction, not a huge load of information. We combine CM and elements of classical education here, but it helps to get all the information, recommendations and "the big picture" :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori D. Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 (edited) Could you please tell me why you find it horrific (I haven't got it but have considered it) and what the new edition suggests be used instead? We've used Spielvogel's Human Odyssey for the past 2 years for our history spine, and don't find it horrific. It's actually one of the first textbooks we've used in our 9 years of homeschooling. What attracted me to it was: - lots of photos and illustrations - excerpts from source documents and works by authors of the time - coverage of non-Western cultures and nations - matches up with the 4-year cycle fairly easily, without an overwhelming amount of reading - questions at end of sections can be used as quizzes, and chapter reviews can be used as tests While textbooks are not my favorite way to homeschool, we have found Spielvogel's Human Odyssey to be pretty painless. It is a bit dry in tone -- i.e., it's not "story-like" as Susan Wise-Bauer's new high school level history book on the ancients. But, hey, it's a textbook, not a novel. The only downside I have found is that the text -- as does *every* book -- has a particular worldview/perspective. In this case it is a secular perspective, and so does not talk much about religion, particularly Christianity or the Catholic church, and the book sometimes has a slightly negative attitude towards it. However, we balance this by including other books with other viewpoints into our history studies, and it also gives us opportunities to discuss author bias. I found one on Amazon for $12 (which included shipping), so I figured that even if I got it and didn't like it, I could easily pass it on without being out too much money. Hopefully you'll be able to find a copy to take a look for yourself and see what you think. Edited June 6, 2009 by Lori D. added info for clarity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keptwoman Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 Thank You Lori. Buying things like this is never cheap when you have currency conversion and have to pay for shipping to Australia and most of the time the first chance you will have to see it is when your purchased copy arrives so it's always good to get as much info as possible beforehand. Your information was great :) So can anyone tell me what the new recommendation for Rhetoric history is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in Australia Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 Melissa, can I ask what changes you made. I just finished reading the logic stage for history. This was the first home schooling book I read years ago. It was borrowed from a friend, so it's hard for me to make comparisons. I can tell you that that first reading left me feeling overwhelmed. Now, I'm excited about implementing some of the ideas, especially for history. This is probably not due to any great changes in the books but to my "maturing" as a home schooling parent:lol: :D I had just got off track, I am using sotw with the younger 3, and doing an outline of it each week. I do the outline on the board and they copy it.. all but the youngest have gone through SOTW once already. we weren't putting nearly enough things on our timeline, and I have started using DK history of the world, getting them to write one sentence per paragraph. they are really enjoying it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in Australia Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 Could you please tell me why you find it horrific (I haven't got it but have considered it) and what the new edition suggests be used instead? I have spielvogel western civ, and I would recommend it. I find it a great book. a bit expensive though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in Australia Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 Thank You Lori. Buying things like this is never cheap when you have currency conversion and have to pay for shipping to Australia and most of the time the first chance you will have to see it is when your purchased copy arrives so it's always good to get as much info as possible beforehand. Your information was great :) So can anyone tell me what the new recommendation for Rhetoric history is. I paid over $300 for my spielvogel Western Civilization. I think that Human Oddysies is more American than Western Civ. new rhetoric history is; ancients- The History of the Ancient World, Susan Bauer Middle ages- The civ of the Middle ages, Norman Cantor. and A History of Asia Late Renaissance/ Early modern The Renaissance ;a short History, Paul Johnson and America; narrative history, George Tindall, Plus History of Asia again Modern- Modern times, Paul Johnson and America a narrative History, and A history of Asia Plus the great books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 4boys Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 I finally bought myself a copy of WTM and have nearly finished reading it (although I skimmed some of the chapters in the high school section because they don't really apply yet; I mostly poured over the grammar stage section taking notes!) and I must say I have been pleasantly surprised. I was worried when I bought it that I would read it and then feel pressured to change a lot of things about my homeschooling philosophy and/or curriculum choices! But it turns out that I was really leaning toward classical education before I even knew what it was. :D I don't follow a lot of the suggestions for curriculum in the book but I love and agree with the overall classical methodology. So as a first-timer, I really really enjoyed it and I know I will be referring back to it many times in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyWifeandMommy Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 I have the previous edition and after looking at the new one, I dont think I need the new edition. If I really want to do more than skim the book I will just get it from the library. Right now $40 can be spent towards something else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
specialmama Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 I think the paper the ink is printed on is too thin. The "end" pages are a nice thickness. I would never be able to highlight the "reading" pages, though - they are a step up from onion skin. This bothers me, as I had the "old" edition from the library, and it had nice paper. I find this funny because I prefer this new edition for the exact same reason! :lol: These new pages are smoother and feel nicer on my hands. I don't feel the need to slather on the hand lotion just to read! I liked the music in Logic, the Teaching Textbooks rec, and Life of Fred rec. I also appreciated the following tidbit about planning: to try to stick to your ideal plan for the first two weeks, then adjust. Better to overachieve at first and have to slow down, than to expect too little at first. :D I don't remember reading this in the previous editions, that or it just didn't register; it wasn't the nugget I needed at the time. But I do appreciate that nugget now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blossom'sGirl Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 but I borrowed the latest from the library. I really liked how she laid out the logic stage history more clearly using each of the recommended texts as samples. In that same chapter, I also like how she defined how much outlining is reasonable for each year. This made it seem more "doable" to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Knittycat Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 We discovered Teaching Textbooks this past year and we just love it! My son although excellent at math complained, and had tantrums when faced with doing any. Teaching Textbooks has been fantastic and I'm glad to see it recommended in the new book :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumping In Puddles Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 This was my first copy to own. I used the library's 1999 edition in the past. I too noticed the paper was not good quality. Maybe this is why Amazon was able to offer it so cheaply.. $26 as opposed to going in to Barnes and Noble and buying the last edition for $40. I held off buying my own for the new one as it was cheaper and the newest, and then the paper really bugged me too. This book needs to last me the next 13 years. The content is great :) but I opened my book (normally, not roughly) about 3 times and the binding split, so it's only a matter of time before the hard cover breaks off completely. :glare: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matryoshka Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 The content is great :) but I opened my book (normally, not roughly) about 3 times and the binding split, so it's only a matter of time before the hard cover breaks off completely. :glare: You all have convinced me of two things: 1. I should read it 2. I should take it out of the library. :tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nan in Mass Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 My son liked it, too. He said it picked up where Kingfisher left off beautifully and wasn't boring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2_girls_mommy Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 The content is great :) but I opened my book (normally, not roughly) about 3 times and the binding split, so it's only a matter of time before the hard cover breaks off completely. :glare: That really bites!! So sorry that happened. I guess hoping for 13 years is too much!! Oh well, like someone else said, there will probably be a new edition in a couple of years that I will want to buy anyway. I am still loving the book though. How many times can I read the same section and learn something new or reassure myself that we are headed in the right direction? I don't know, but I am going for the record! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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