Camp that asks you to pay what you can.

[Daria]

I run a small program in a large private school.  We function a lot like a team, with a big emphasis on relationship building.  The team has about 15 students, and 2 adults.  

 

In the summer, I invite kids to come in for the day, or for several days to work on their skills, and on their relationships.  Sometimes we do activities that cost money (e.g. today we took the subway somewhere and paid for both the subway and an entry fee), and I ask parents to cover those costs, but otherwise the activities are free for the students.  My co-leader (who comes about 1/2 the time) and I cover our own expenses.  I am paid by my organization for about 1/2 the days I come in.  My co-leader is never paid.

 

I love these activities, but the number of days I can afford to run them is limited, because I need to work a second job.  I'd love to expand the activities into a "camp" type program, however, it's really important to me that everyone is included.  We don't have any poor families, but we do have families that are scrimping to pay tuition, with or without financial aid, as well as families who I would describe as very wealthy.  

 

I'm wondering if there's a way to make the camp "pay what you can".  I was thinking of making a list of suggested prices, possibly with the rationale for the price (e.g. "cost of an equivalent camp" at the highest, and "covering your child's subway and entry fees" at the lowest) and let parents just check off what they were able to pay. 

 

Would this seem weird?  Would it discourage you from sending your child?  How would you decide what to pay?

 

I'll probably delete this later.

[Daria]

Just to be clear, the camp would be limited to the kids on the team.  So, there wouldn't be an issue of outside students who were looking for free childcare overwhelming the numbers or anything.  

[LucyStoner]

Self-reported sliding scale can be an easy way to do this.  I would base the suggested amounts on your area's median income.  

[Daria]

Self-reported sliding scale can be an easy way to do this.  I would base the suggested amounts on your area's median income.  

 

Many of my families have significant expenses connected to their kids' disabilities.  Camp would be a significant expense, because my students still benefit from supervision and structured activities when many of their same age peers are working summer jobs.

 

So, I'd rather not tell a family that they have to pay X, based on income, if X is a burden to them, even if on paper they seem like they could afford it.  

[Farrar]

I think that sounds fine. It's a small group of people, so it's not like you're putting it out to the wider world. You know your community and know how this will be received, but I think it seems very reasonable. I think a suggested amount on a sliding scale based on income level is still the way to go. Without a guideline, people would be lost. You can even include a note about how it's just a suggestion and how you understand that many families have expenses related to their children that are not the norm. However, I'd also include a note about how in order to make a quality program, it takes manpower and time and that essentially costs money.

[Daria]

So, here's my question.  If you were a parent who couldn't afford to pay, or wasn't budgeting to pay, whatever the highest price we suggested, would it make you hesitant to send your kid?  Would you feel like you were accepting charity or something?  

 

From my point of view, as long as families cover the actual expenses for their kid (subway fare, or that slice of pizza), it costs the same to run the program if I have 1 or 15, so I'd rather have kids sign up, even if they pay the minimum.  Plus the teambuilding doesn't work without kids.

[LucyStoner]

So, here's my question.  If you were a parent who couldn't afford to pay, or wasn't budgeting to pay, whatever the highest price we suggested, would it make you hesitant to send your kid?  Would you feel like you were accepting charity or something?  

 

From my point of view, as long as families cover the actual expenses for their kid (subway fare, or that slice of pizza), it costs the same to run the program if I have 1 or 15, so I'd rather have kids sign up, even if they pay the minimum.  Plus the teambuilding doesn't work without kids.

 

Depends on the culture of the families and the area.  Where I live, more people than not tend to respond well to stuff like that. 

 

Can you call each family and explain that it's an important thing and all are encouraged to participate?  

[LucyStoner]

Would the school's parent committee allocate some funding for the program?  That might help.  

[Rebel Yell]

So, here's my question. If you were a parent who couldn't afford to pay, or wasn't budgeting to pay, whatever the highest price we suggested, would it make you hesitant to send your kid? Would you feel like you were accepting charity or something?

 

From my point of view, as long as families cover the actual expenses for their kid (subway fare, or that slice of pizza), it costs the same to run the program if I have 1 or 15, so I'd rather have kids sign up, even if they pay the minimum. Plus the teambuilding doesn't work without kids.

I would not be hesitant to send my child knowing the suggested cost, especially if you add the note suggested above by Farrar. I'd would feel horrible if I found out later that none of the expenses were covered and the leaders were not paid AND losing money by paying for things themself. Knowing what I could pay, and that other people were paying as they are able, would be fine with me to participate and contribute at whatever level I was able.

[amy g.]

Also, maybe look for outside grant money or contributions that might make camp free for families.

[Arcadia]

So, here's my question. If you were a parent who couldn't afford to pay, or wasn't budgeting to pay, whatever the highest price we suggested, would it make you hesitant to send your kid? Would you feel like you were accepting charity or something?

Could you phrase it as whatever minimum amount you need is the suggested amount and anyone having difficulties can get in touch with you while any extra amount would be treated as a donation for any unexpected expenses or treats?

 

When my oldest child attended public school, the room parents asked for a $5 donation from every child for the teachers day gift and everyone was welcomed to give more. There was 30 students in the 1st grade class and the aim was to give the teacher a $250 Target gift card. One of the room parent said she is going to top up to $250 out of her own money. Most gave $5, some gave $10 and a few gave $20.

 

ETA:

We attended a family event years ago where donations were expected but we didn't know. It was awkward as we didn't bring cash to the free event. We literally had to borrow cash from our kids petty cash wallets. It wasn't stated in the event poster and we weren't from that area.

Edited July 28, 2017 by Arcadia

[Guinevere]

I think this could come off wrong, and make people feel undue pressure on both ends of the wealth spectrum.  Would it be possible to do a few fundraisers or collection drives or etc throughout the year, and then you use whatever money came from those to be your extra money?  Still have people pay the minimums, though.  

 

Another idea might be to suggest to families that they could "sponsor an event."  Maybe the total cost of an additional activity you'd like to do is $300 for all the kids, perhaps one family would like to pay for all the kids to go. 

 

Or, even better, you could make a big donation board thing and let families give anonymously to these extra ideas.  Whatever activities get enough money are done, and the rest of the money is rolled into a final event of some kind.  

 

 

[slackermom]

I sent my child to a choose-your-price camp. They had 3 recommended levels which were basically low/middle/upper, with a couple of sentences saying that the middle level was the break-even cost for the camp, and anyone who could pay the upper amount was chipping in a bit more and helping to help cover the cost for those who could only afford the lower amount.

[Guinevere]

I sent my child to a choose-your-price camp. They had 3 recommended levels which were basically low/middle/upper, with a couple of sentences saying that the middle level was the break-even cost for the camp, and anyone who could pay the upper amount was chipping in a bit more and helping to help cover the cost for those who could only afford the lower amount.

 

That's really good wording!

[SKL]

I've seen where it will say, "it costs __ per child to run this camp.  We strive to keep tuition/fees low (or free) to ensure that all __ have access to the camp.  In order to help us continue, please consider giving a donation to help defray our costs."  If I saw that, I would pay at least the cost per child, and sometimes I would add an additional amount to help cover other kids whose families can't afford it.

[luuknam]

So, here's my question.  If you were a parent who couldn't afford to pay, or wasn't budgeting to pay, whatever the highest price we suggested, would it make you hesitant to send your kid?  Would you feel like you were accepting charity or something?  

 

 

You didn't list the actual prices, so, this is a little nebulous, but... 

 

No, I wouldn't feel bad not being able to pay the highest price suggested, since I'd assume that that's substantial donation-level, helping out people who pay less than cost. However, I would feel bad if we couldn't pay the middle level (again, tough to tell without actual prices listed and all that... you also didn't say how many levels you were going to have). So, I might be inclined to not send the kid if we couldn't afford the 'middle' level, by which I mean whichever level that I suspect to be the 'true' cost for my kid to attend. 

[gaillardia]

We knew a piano teacher who said she really wanted our kids to take lessons from her. She also knew we couldn't afford it. She approached me and said that there was a sponsor who wanted to remain anonymous but would pay for these two particular children's lessons if we could buy the books. Deal. I never did know who the sponsors were, not important.

Maybe you could ask for those kinds of donations although I'm not sure who you could approach. 

All the best to you. 

Will PM you

[samba]

I run a small program in a large private school.  We function a lot like a team, with a big emphasis on relationship building.  The team has about 15 students, and 2 adults.  

 

In the summer, I invite kids to come in for the day, or for several days to work on their skills, and on their relationships.  Sometimes we do activities that cost money (e.g. today we took the subway somewhere and paid for both the subway and an entry fee), and I ask parents to cover those costs, but otherwise the activities are free for the students.  My co-leader (who comes about 1/2 the time) and I cover our own expenses.  I am paid by my organization for about 1/2 the days I come in.  My co-leader is never paid.

 

I love these activities, but the number of days I can afford to run them is limited, because I need to work a second job.  I'd love to expand the activities into a "camp" type program, however, it's really important to me that everyone is included.  We don't have any poor families, but we do have families that are scrimping to pay tuition, with or without financial aid, as well as families who I would describe as very wealthy.  

 

I'm wondering if there's a way to make the camp "pay what you can".  I was thinking of making a list of suggested prices, possibly with the rationale for the price (e.g. "cost of an equivalent camp" at the highest, and "covering your child's subway and entry fees" at the lowest) and let parents just check off what they were able to pay. 

 

Would this seem weird?  Would it discourage you from sending your child?  How would you decide what to pay?

 

I'll probably delete this later.

 

[samba]

Hi Daria,

The camp where my dd17 works as a counselor introduced a sliding scale rate for the first time this summer. They have three tiers. I can pm you the camp name if you'd like to explore how they do it.  I never looked into it because we no longer have a camper there.

[Daria]

Hi Daria,

The camp where my dd17 works as a counselor introduced a sliding scale rate for the first time this summer. They have three tiers. I can pm you the camp name if you'd like to explore how they do it. I never looked into it because we no longer have a camper there.

I would love that, thank you!

[Daria]

You didn't list the actual prices, so, this is a little nebulous, but... 

 

No, I wouldn't feel bad not being able to pay the highest price suggested, since I'd assume that that's substantial donation-level, helping out people who pay less than cost. However, I would feel bad if we couldn't pay the middle level (again, tough to tell without actual prices listed and all that... you also didn't say how many levels you were going to have). So, I might be inclined to not send the kid if we couldn't afford the 'middle' level, by which I mean whichever level that I suspect to be the 'true' cost for my kid to attend. 

 

So, here are some options that I was considering.

 

Level 1: $20/day or $100/week.  This is about what people are paying right now, and it covers one person's transportation and entry fees and sometimes food.  If people paid this, they'd stop sending in money each day.  This would be comparable in price to the programs run by county parks and rec.  Although I think that families in those programs are asked to send spending money on top of that if there are trips, and to pay extra for before/aftercare. 

 

Level 2: $40/day or $200/week (or maybe $50/$250).  This is the range for a mid level camp in our area.  Soccer camp run at a local school (including the one run at our school), etc . . . That would be for a camp with a 10:1 ratio, staffed by high school and college students, that doesn't include trips.  This is what many of my families would have paid for a week of camp if their kids were younger and didn't have disabilities.  

 

Level 3: $80/day or $400/week (or maybe $100/$500). This is the tuition range in our area for specialty camps like theater camp run by a real theater company, or computer camp, or kayaking camp.  It's also the range for most "therapeutic camps" who serve kids similar to ours, and have ratios similar to ours (4:1).  If we charged this much for every camper, my co-leader and I could end up with salaries similar to what we'd make if we went to work for a local camp for the same number of weeks.

 

So, none of them would be "subsidizing" the other kids per se.  

 

I am going to delete all of this at some point, so please don't quote

[bettyandbob]

I like this idea, especially since I have a child with a disability. Everything is just harder. I had to deal with camp issues this week that were quite difficult. 

 

For you budgeting purposes consider the minimum enrollment you need to run the program and what would the break even costs be for that minimum enrollment. You could run into a problem if you say the cost is X per person when there are situations where total costs are more per person for less enrollees. You will need to let people know that you cannot run camp unless a certain minimum enrollment is met by a certain number of dates ahead. 

[Katy]

This would take some time (you might need to start the process now for next summer) but if you have fortune 500 companies in your area, check out their websites or call them and ask what the process is for asking for a community grant.  DH's company has millions in a fund to help the communities they have offices in, and the fund is typically under used because no one bothers to ask, or no one wants to fill out the 3 page form. 

 

Their fund is so underused that they automatically give a thousand dollars to charities that employees volunteer a certain number of hours at per year.  DH's company PAYS them to volunteer by giving them designated hours off to help the community.  These benefits are so underused that last year department heads were told to designate a day for their team to work on something together.  I think last year DH's whole team worked on a Habitat for Humanity project, and a lot of them volunteer for things like school teams or Lego League as well.

 

Think big with things like this - they may be inclined to give you more money if you also give all the kids t-shirts for the camp that have a "sponsored by" and company logos on the back.

[Daria]

You guys have wonderful fundraising suggestions. Fundraising is challenging because we don't want to compete with the funding we do for school year costs. Plus we really aren't serving families "in need".

[Daria]

I like this idea, especially since I have a child with a disability. Everything is just harder. I had to deal with camp issues this week that were quite difficult.

 

For you budgeting purposes consider the minimum enrollment you need to run the program and what would the break even costs be for that minimum enrollment. You could run into a problem if you say the cost is X per person when there are situations where total costs are more per person for less enrollees. You will need to let people know that you cannot run camp unless a certain minimum enrollment is met by a certain number of dates ahead.

Lots to think about.

[Bootsie]

I am not clear about what the costs of running the program are.  Is the school collecting the money and then paying you wages?  If the camp would be run through the school, I would see if there is some way that you can structure the camp such that the cost is $X and families are encouraged to donate for scholarships for other students to attend.  

[Mabelen]

Girl Scouts here have a three tier price for camp. I have never sent my kids there although there were some really good ones that my kids would have loved. I have a budget for camp. Camp is not a need for us because I am home, so anything above my low cost limit is out. I would feel bad paying the lowest tier because we are not low income so it feels like I am abusing the system.

 

I think I would be able to be swayed to enroll and pay the lowest tier only if the fact that you need bodies to fill seats was emphasized.

Edited July 28, 2017 by Mabelen

[EmilyGF]

DS went to a camp with a sliding scale. In the packet, the price was listed as:

 

0 - $75K = $250

$75K - 150K = $500

over 150K = $750

 

But then there was information about applying for a scholarship if you really couldn't afford it and information on making a donation if you could (because this clearly didn't cover the costs of the excellent camp). 

 

This gave a really clear expectation of what was involved. If they had asked you to "give what you could" I would have had no idea what was expected to me and would likely have felt much more pressure.

 

Emily

[luuknam]

I have a budget for camp. Camp is not a need for us because I am home, so anything above my low cost limit is out. I would feel bad paying the lowest tier because we are not low income so it feels like I am abusing the system.

 

I think I would be able to be swayed to enroll and pay the lowest tier only if the fact that you need bodies to fill seats was emphasized.

 

 

This, roughly. That said, I pretty much send my kids to one week of sleep-away camp ($500-$600-ish per kid... I make payments for that spread out over most of the year) and one week of day camp ($180-ish per kid) each summer (I'd send them more if I could afford it, but it's not a need, and we're not low-income, though we're hardly rich). My special needs kid has done fine at the regular camps I've sent him to, even when his school had a FT 1-1 aide for him. If the kids you're serving cannot attend regular camp, then you're not competing with their camp budget... but in our case, I'd need to make a decision whether your camp would be worth forgoing another camp for... kind of hard to judge, but yes, I'd be much more willing to scrape together the lowest price for a bonus week of camp with you if you emphasized the need for bodies to fill seats... of course, if my kid couldn't attend regular camps, I'd be much more inclined to pay the middle cost for your camp or maybe even more than the middle cost.

[luuknam]

0 - $75K = $250

$75K - 150K = $500

over 150K = $750

 

 

We actually fall into the lowest bracket for that, but I'd prefer if it had more brackets, because if your income is 75,001, it's going to feel quite painful that you're supposed to pay 2x of what you're supposed to pay at 74,999.

[katilac]

I would do a sliding scale over pay what you can, for sure. 

 

Like Mabelen, I'd be reluctant to pay the lower tiers because we aren't low-income. On the other hand, I'm awfully tired of paying full freight for activities while other kids go for free. So I'd probably be a bit unhappy either way, lol, either feeling guilty or annoyed. 

 

Make it a set price or a sliding scale, and I'll happily decide whether or not to do the activity. What's the difference with a sliding scale? Hmm, part of it is that I don't like the full price vs completely free model; the sliding scale recognizes that there are more levels to income. It's really annoying when the person making $100 less than you gets $1,000 in benefits. Yeah, I can be petty, I'm working on that. Second, I have a very dubious view (from long experience) of what some parents feel they can pay. If zero is an option, some people will take it every time - but a lot of those same people will faithfully follow an honor system, because they won't outright lie. 

Edited July 28, 2017 by katilac

[EmilyGF]

We actually fall into the lowest bracket for that, but I'd prefer if it had more brackets, because if your income is 75,001, it's going to feel quite painful that you're supposed to pay 2x of what you're supposed to pay at 74,999.

Just giving an actual real-life example.

 

I think the camp was exceptionally discounted (the top tier people were probably only paying 25-35% of the true cost) and that was why it was not more exactly tiered. 

 

Emily

[luuknam]

I think the camp was exceptionally discounted (the top tier people were probably only paying 25-35% of the true cost) and that was why it was not more exactly tiered. 

 

 

I was just mentioning my opinion for OP's benefit. 

[katilac]

We actually fall into the lowest bracket for that, but I'd prefer if it had more brackets, because if your income is 75,001, it's going to feel quite painful that you're supposed to pay 2x of what you're supposed to pay at 74,999.

 

:iagree:

[Daria]

Girl Scouts here have a three tier price for camp. I have never sent my kids there although there were some really good ones that my kids would have loved. I have a budget for camp. Camp is not a need for us because I am home, so anything above my low cost limit is out. I would feel bad paying the lowest tier because we are not low income so it feels like I am abusing the system.

 

I think I would be able to be swayed to enroll and pay the lowest tier only if the fact that you need bodies to fill seats was emphasized.

 

If this was something that your kids were already doing, and you had the option to continue sending them at the rate you had been paying (basically, the lowest rate), would the fact that that rate, which used to be the only rate, was now the lowest rate, keep you from sending them?

 

It's not that the I need to fill seats, it's that I am much more effective during the school year if I have strong relationships with kids, and if kids have the skills that come from these "camps".  So, if my choice is to have them come and not pay, or not come and not pay, I'd rather they came.  

 

We have kids who don't come now, but as far as I can tell the reason has never been the cost of the trips.  It's usually because they're doing something more expensive, like going to Disney, or Australia, or sleep away camp, or a day camp in the community that costs $500 a week, but sometimes it's more mundane reasons like the dentist, or Grandma's visiting, or the kid just doesn't like the destination.  

[Daria]

I like this idea, especially since I have a child with a disability. Everything is just harder. I had to deal with camp issues this week that were quite difficult. 

 

For you budgeting purposes consider the minimum enrollment you need to run the program and what would the break even costs be for that minimum enrollment. You could run into a problem if you say the cost is X per person when there are situations where total costs are more per person for less enrollees. You will need to let people know that you cannot run camp unless a certain minimum enrollment is met by a certain number of dates ahead. 

 

There isn't really a minimum enrollment.  We've run trips with 1 kid, and trips with 10 kids.  I go on every trip, and if it was a 1 kid trip where that kid paid the minimum so I paid my own way, then I'd just do it.  After all, that's what I'm doing now. 

[Daria]

I am not clear about what the costs of running the program are.  Is the school collecting the money and then paying you wages?  If the camp would be run through the school, I would see if there is some way that you can structure the camp such that the cost is $X and families are encouraged to donate for scholarships for other students to attend.  

 

Right now, there is no money changing hands.  When I send out the announcement of a trip, I say "bring $20" or whatever amount is appropriate, but the kids pay that money directly to the activity, or add it to their subway card, or buy their own slice of pizza.  If the kid spends less than I asked for, then they take it home. Once in a while, if a kid is short a few dollars, I'll chip in out of my pocket. 

 

My co-worker, who probably came on 10 trips this summer, was not paid for any of them, and paid her own expenses.  My situation is a little more complicated, and I sort of got paid for some of the 30 trips I went on.

 

If we switched to asking for $, and paying staff wages, then I'd need to talk to our business office.  The soccer coach runs a camp on campus and charges, so I know there's a mechanism that works.  But again, I'm only willing to do this if I can figure out a way that lets everyone participate, so I want to know what to propose.

[Library Momma]

Have you looked into the insurance aspect?  Are you covered by the school's insurance policy?   Sometimes a sport organization's insurance is under a booster organization umbrella.  It is an important aspect to consider before you call the meetup a camp.  Also is the school a not for profit organization?  If not, different states have different rules regarding fundraising.  I think what you are doing is wonderful you just need to make sure all of your bases are covered.

[xixstar]

I think you should give it a try and see if it's works and let families know why there is a change from before without worrying so much.

 

 

For myself it would cause me consternation in sending my child if it was an activity that was costing $100 before but now it would be twice as much or more. Because I feel that we make an income high enough that we shouldn't pay the lowest tier but reality is that we are very tight and have to prioritize spending and it probably would no longer fit our plans at the higher cost and I would feel unethical paying the lower cost.

 

As a family we miss out on a few things that have flexible payment options because I feel it wrong to take the lowest priced option when we technically could afford it but have budgeted to use our funds in other ways. Sometimes I think our community would rather us come to the events anyways but it feels like I would be taking advantage of the policy if we did.

[Valley Girl]

This would take some time (you might need to start the process now for next summer) but if you have fortune 500 companies in your area, check out their websites or call them and ask what the process is for asking for a community grant.  DH's company has millions in a fund to help the communities they have offices in, and the fund is typically under used because no one bothers to ask, or no one wants to fill out the 3 page form. 

 

Their fund is so underused that they automatically give a thousand dollars to charities that employees volunteer a certain number of hours at per year.  DH's company PAYS them to volunteer by giving them designated hours off to help the community.  These benefits are so underused that last year department heads were told to designate a day for their team to work on something together.  I think last year DH's whole team worked on a Habitat for Humanity project, and a lot of them volunteer for things like school teams or Lego League as well.

 

Think big with things like this - they may be inclined to give you more money if you also give all the kids t-shirts for the camp that have a "sponsored by" and company logos on the back.

 

You might also want to talk to the manager at your local Target or Kohl's store. I don't know how Target decides what their charities support, but it used to be that individual Kohl's stores would get involved. I remember one local school event it helped support with both money and manpower. It might be worth asking.

[Daria]

Have you looked into the insurance aspect?  Are you covered by the school's insurance policy?   Sometimes a sport organization's insurance is under a booster organization umbrella.  It is an important aspect to consider before you call the meetup a camp.  Also is the school a not for profit organization?  If not, different states have different rules regarding fundraising.  I think what you are doing is wonderful you just need to make sure all of your bases are covered.

 

Right now, we're under the school's insurance.  Before we switched to a more formal status, we'd need to look into this.  Because the school runs other camps, I'm assuming they've got all of it figured out.  

 

The school is not for profit.  

 

I don't think fundraising is the answer.  We'd be competing for funds from the same organizations that fund us during the school year.   Also, we'd be fundraising for our own salaries, which seems weird.

 

You've all given me lots to think about.

[Daria]

I think you should give it a try and see if it's works and let families know why there is a change from before without worrying so much.

 

 

For myself it would cause me consternation in sending my child if it was an activity that was costing $100 before but now it would be twice as much or more. Because I feel that we make an income high enough that we shouldn't pay the lowest tier but reality is that we are very tight and have to prioritize spending and it probably would no longer fit our plans at the higher cost and I would feel unethical paying the lower cost.

 

As a family we miss out on a few things that have flexible payment options because I feel it wrong to take the lowest priced option when we technically could afford it but have budgeted to use our funds in other ways. Sometimes I think our community would rather us come to the events anyways but it feels like I would be taking advantage of the policy if we did.

See, this is what I worry about.  Families deciding not to send their kids because of this kind of thinking.  In our case, our expenses, other than entrance fees and subway fare (which are covered by what parents are paying now) don't go up with extra students, unless those students take us to the point where we need more staff.  So, I'd rather take 4 kids than 2, even if the 2 aren't contributing to staff costs.  

[RootAnn]

The YMCA camp is tiered with the highest tier being actual expense. There is no paperwork do which tier you should pay-it is all voluntary. There ate extras that if you sign up for them helps support scholarships for those who can't pay the lowest tier.

 

I like the idea of lowest being actual expenses, middle helping with salaries, and highest helping out those who can't afford the lower two tiers.

 

No one except the billing office knows your tier (although if you don't give your kid money for the camp store, someone might assume you are there on scholarship and "donate" to his camp store fund).

 

Everyone has fun regardless of what they paid and gets to participate in everything even if they don't have the money for it.

[Daria]

When you say that the highest tier covers actual expenses at the Y, you are including paying staff in that, correct?

[RootAnn]

Yes, it covers salaries & wear & tear on the camp itself. Here is the actual wording:

 

 

Why Three Prices?  [Camp] has a voluntary tiered pricing system for our summer camp programs allowing families to choose the price that works best for them. Naming your price requires no paperwork and in no way influences the experience your child will receive at camp.

What are the prices? Price A accounts for true costs, including wear & tear, depreciation, and facility/program improvements. Price B is a partially subsidized rate for families that could use a little help and Price C is a more heavily subsidized rate, and does not reflect the true cost of operating.

How do I select my price? This program is voluntary, requires no paper work and in no way influences the experience children receive. Simply choose the rate that is appropriate for your family.

How are the rates subsidized? We are able to offer subsidized rates by generous contributions of many donors, alumni, staff and friends, and by the support of the YMCA of [City], the association to which [Camp] belongs.

Is more assistance available?  If your need is greater, please do not hesitate to apply for our Personal Pricing/Financial Assistance program, which provides more significant scholarships off of the Tier C rate.

 

[luuknam]

If this was something that your kids were already doing, and you had the option to continue sending them at the rate you had been paying (basically, the lowest rate), would the fact that that rate, which used to be the only rate, was now the lowest rate, keep you from sending them?

 

I'm not sure if it'd keep me from sending my kid... it'd probably depend on how things were phrased. Also, depending on how things were phrased, I'd be annoyed at what we used to pay being the lowest tier, and having to feel guilty because our household income is above the median (not much above, but above). On the bright side, for you, this would be a temporary problem, as at some point in the future none of the campers will have experienced the old prices. 

 

The YMCA camp is tiered with the highest tier being actual expense. There is no paperwork do which tier you should pay-it is all voluntary. 

 

This is not how the Y camps here work. There's the member cost and the non-member cost, both of which pay something along the lines of actual expense (I'm not real clear on exactly what percentage of actual cost those pay... it could be a little over or under actual cost), and other than that, you can sell candy bars (anybody can do that), and/or, if you're low-income, you can apply for financial aid, which is then dependent on your household income and circumstances, and from what I've heard you do have to show proof.  

 

When I picked my kids up from camp some comment was made about attending another week, and I said that we could not afford that, what with that costing over a grand for the two kids combined, and the camp director told me to apply for financial aid, and that more people qualify than they think they will... but a) I don't think we'd qualify, and b) even if we were to qualify, I think it'd be just wrong to get financial aid for a second week of summer camp, especially since we're not actually in poverty - they should keep that money so kids in poverty can go to one week of camp, not my kids to a second week. 

 

When you say that the highest tier covers actual expenses at the Y, you are including paying staff in that, correct?

 

 

Yes. That said, tons of non-profits do fundraisers and apply for grants to cover expenses, including salaries of people who work there. I don't see why it's better to fundraise the cost of field trips and have parents pay your salary than to have parents pay for field trips and have fundraisers pay your salary, for example.

[xixstar]

See, this is what I worry about.  Families deciding not to send their kids because of this kind of thinking.  In our case, our expenses, other than entrance fees and subway fare (which are covered by what parents are paying now) don't go up with extra students, unless those students take us to the point where we need more staff.  So, I'd rather take 4 kids than 2, even if the 2 aren't contributing to staff costs.  

Yes but I would feel it unethical to have you and your co-leader being unpaid for this work and, if I knew that was the case, I would already be feeling like I should be paying more. Unless it is some major volunteer program and even then volunteers burn out and programs end because of it, whereas something that offered some compensation may be more sustainable. 

 

I don't think fear of making people uncomfortable should stop you from making a change. If needed, you could reach out to anyone that didn't continue with the program and let them know that it truly is okay to pay the lowest amount -- if my community did that with me, giving me the chance to clarify that we "have the money" but we simply cannot prioritize spending it on their activity, I would probably join the event at the subsidized cost if still invited.