Less is More

[asmall]

I have noticed with my kids that over the last year or two, as we have relaxed, we seem to get more done. As an example, we switched to Bravewriter over a year ago. Instead of working on a new writing assignment each week (or more) now we do about one assignment per month (sometimes less). But now my kids enjoy writing, and their writing has improved by leaps and bounds. My oldest daughter is writing a novel in her own time. Before she would cry over any writing assignment that was longer than a sentence.

I have seen this in other subjects besides just our writing. I am really starting to think this Less is More thing really works. Who has seen this, and how? Why do you think the Less is More works? Or maybe you don't agree with the whole Less is More thing. Why?

All opinions welcome. Let's talk about this Less is More.

AL

[MiMi 4under3]

Quality not Quantity.  :thumbup1:

 

And maybe it has to do with Intrinsic vs. Extrinsic motivation.

 

 

[idnib]

:lurk5: 

[coffeegal]

I've found there's a golden spot for schoolwork we try to achieve. It's enough to spark their interest, turn on their brains, and fire their imaginations. The children then leave their books and run off to program computers, learn Egyptian hieroglyphics, or write a novel.

 

Too much schoolwork and it eats the available juice for the day. They finish, sit, and veg.

 

Too little and their imaginations aren't sparked. They'll sit around and veg as well. 

 

The right amount and it's amazing what they do.  :001_smile:

 

So yes, I wholeheartedly agree there's something to the "less is more" but there is a point where "less is more" turns into "less is nothing". It likely varies family to family and child to child. ;)

[Farrar]

I feel like I see it within some programs - Brave Writer is definitely one.  Julie Bogart often talks about taking just one thing at a time.

 

But other programs too sometimes have it.  This was the thing that I always appreciated about Handwriting Without Tears - it was about focusing on improvement in every effort, not about flying through page after page of handwriting practice.  The same thing is true in some math programs.  Some programs give kids a few problems on a page with lots of space.  It's about learning from those few problems, about really focusing as you do them, about discovering the "rules" from them.  Others have page after page of drill.

 

In the overall picture, I agree that when we're focused on just a few things, we do better...  But I also see the flip side.  When we have lots of options and lots of programs and resources, it's like a buffet and we get to get our feet wet on different ideas.  I think different kids benefit from different approaches for different subjects and at different stages of their learning.

[Coco_Clark]

I've found there's a golden spot for schoolwork we try to achieve. It's enough to spark their interest, turn on their brains, and fire their imaginations. The children then leave their books and run off to program computers, learn Egyptian hieroglyphics, or write a novel.

 

Too much schoolwork and it eats the available juice for the day. They finish, sit, and veg.

 

Too little and their imaginations aren't sparked. They'll sit around and veg as well.

 

The right amount and it's amazing what they do. :001_smile:

 

So yes, I wholeheartedly agree there's something to the "less is more" but there is a point where "less is more" turns into "less is nothing". It likely varies family to family and child to child. ;)

I love this so much that liking it wasn't enough. THIS is why unschooling cannot work for *my* family. Not enough juice.

 

Less is more makes me also think of the maxim "Much not Many" which really speaks to me. I want to provide my kids much but not necessarily many, its a slight but important difference.

[EndOfOrdinary]

We always ease into the school year because of the Much Not Many/Less is More. All the subjects right away is just overwhelming for both DS and me. We add two subjects each week. It means we have the ability to really get flowing with the books, time, and enjoyment without rushing. Adding in reading for a half hour doesn't require cramming things in if we have math and history already down. Ten minutes of handwriting is just one little thing in two weeks rather than meltdown- worthy on the first day at three thirty when all my son wants to do is plug into the computer and vegetate.

 

Slow and steady definitely wins the race around here!

[Snow]

For us, less can be more but only if it's the right kind of less.

 

Less repetition/drill = good.

Less monotony = good.

Less traditional methods = good.

 

But in order to achieve good results, I find I need to provide way *more* novelty, stimulation, physical experiences and variation than I ever thought I would need to provide. More than I feel capable of providing!

 

So for us more is good, but only the right kinds of things. Otherwise, I find exactly what coffeegal said, the kids become bored and under-stimulated.

 

Very tough to find the right balance!

[Snow]

We always ease into the school year because of the Much Not Many/Less is More. All the subjects right away is just overwhelming for both DS and me. We add two subjects each week. It means we have the ability to really get flowing with the books, time, and enjoyment without rushing. Adding in reading for a half hour doesn't require cramming things in if we have math and history already down. Ten minutes of handwriting is just one little thing in two weeks rather than meltdown- worthy on the first day at three thirty when all my son wants to do is plug into the computer and vegetate.

 

Slow and steady definitely wins the race around here!

As always, I think your post is right on. This is exactly how it goes at our house as well.

[Guest Mommasan]

I agree less IS more. My kids thrive when we go deep with a few topics instead of wide and shallow with everything.

[asmall]

[quote name="coffeegal" post="5874235" timestamp="

 

Too much schoolwork and it eats the available juice for the day. They finish, sit, and veg.

 

Too little and their imaginations aren't sparked. They'll sit around and veg as well.

 

The right amount and it's amazing what they do. :001_smile:

 

I think the Less is More works in my house because, when we do too much the kids don't have any free time just to be kids. I also feel stressed out trying to get it all done. My stress level effects my kids. I agree that the right amount and it is amazing what they do.

AL

[asmall]

I love this so much that liking it wasn't enough. THIS is why unschooling cannot work for *my* family. Not enough juice.

 

Less is more makes me also think of the maxim "Much not Many" which really speaks to me. I want to provide my kids much but not necessarily many, its a slight but important difference.

I like your idea of Much not Many. I think many people think Less is More means that you don't have to do anything.

AL

[asmall]

For me, less work results in greater consistency in getting it done.

 

Greater consistency = better results.

I agree. I also think when we plan for less we have more time to be relaxed. It like a cluttered house, it makes me feel crazy inside. But when I get rid of the clutter, and there is more empty space I relax inside.

AL

[asmall]

We always ease into the school year because of the Much Not Many/Less is More. All the subjects right away is just overwhelming for both DS and me. We add two subjects each week. It means we have the ability to really get flowing with the books, time, and enjoyment without rushing. Adding in reading for a half hour doesn't require cramming things in if we have math and history already down. Ten minutes of handwriting is just one little thing in two weeks rather than meltdown- worthy on the first day at three thirty when all my son wants to do is plug into the computer and vegetate.

 

Slow and steady definitely wins the race around here!

I have also noticed this, if we ease back into all our subjects things transition smoothly.

AL

[Amy M]

I think the Less is More works in my house because, when we do too much the kids don't have any free time just to be kids. I also feel stressed out trying to get it all done. My stress level effects my kids. I agree that the right amount and it is amazing what they do.

AL

So for those of you who feel like you've hit on the "right amount" can you help those of us who feel like we aren't getting it yet? What is the right amount, and what do you cut to get there? (Bravewriter's philosophy was mentioned as a possible example in the subject of writing...)

[asmall]

 

In the overall picture, I agree that when we're focused on just a few things, we do better... But I also see the flip side. When we have lots of options and lots of programs and resources, it's like a buffet and we get to get our feet wet on different ideas. I think different kids benefit from different approaches for different subjects and at different stages of their learning.

I think that this is a good point. Kids need different things at different times. It makes me think of the ebb and flow of the tide. Sometimes there is a lot, when the tide is in, and then there are times when it is just a little, when the tide is out. The rhythms in nature can really teach us a lot.

AL

[asmall]

So for those of you who feel like you've hit on the "right amount" can you help those of us who feel like we aren't getting it yet? What is the right amount, and what do you cut to get there? (Bravewriter's philosophy was mentioned as a possible example in the subject of writing...)

Everyone's family will be different. But I think just having some time every day that your kids are free to do what they want really helps. If kids are doing school work most of the day, then have other classes, when do they just have time to be kids?

Also having free time gives them time to chew on in their minds what they have been learning.

AL

[asmall]

With both of my kids, I have noticed that when they have more free time they both will bring what they have been learning in our school into their play.

AL

[wintermom]

I'm not exactly sure what the definition is of "less is more?"  There are just so many variables involved.

 

Are you referring to:

 

- less time spent on the same number of subjects,

- fewer subjects in greater depth,

- fewer subjects, some in depth, others not

 

- any of the above covered in the homeschool school in one particular year or over 10 years? 

- something different?

 

 

I've varied my homeschooling approach over the 10 years I've been doing this, and I'm pretty sure that there will be more variations happening in the next 10 years.

 

Our "less is more" philosophy for the past few years (after achieving "burn-out" from trying to do every possible subject in great depth) is that we focus on the 3 Ms = Math, Music and Motion consistently throughout the entire school year, and we do reading, writing, second language(s), history, science, art and theatre in a semester approach. Some years or "seasons" within a year, there will be a greater concentration on one or more of the "semester" subjects. But I've dropped the notion of trying to do every subject every week every year. It just isn't possible (for myself and my dc - aged 14, 12, 10 and 8)  to maintain a high degree of interest and energy in "all things" for the 10 years we've been at this. I don't believe that we've "failed" at homeschooling, either. At least I hope not! My dc are still too young for me to determine whether we've completely missed the boat. ;)

 

[KeriJ]

With both of my kids, I have noticed that when they have more free time they both will bring what they have been learning in our school into their play.

AL

 

I have really noticed that through the years, and I wish I would trust myself in that area more.  Just last week, we had short school days, and one afternoon my kids all huddled in the room forming a "club".  They came out and asked if they could do presentations from their "research club".  They all proceeded to give a "speeches" on topics they read about.  It was excellent! 

 

For the record, they are not always like that.  They spend much of their free time asking to watch tv or play the computer.  But when I pay attention over the long haul, I notice that when they have enough free time, they often play "educationally".

[Chrysalis Academy]

"Less is More" as a philosophy is critical for me, personally, as a planner/facilitator and teacher.  That's because my personality is very big picture and integrating.   I never use things exactly as written, I like to pull things together and make connections.  Hence I have a plethora of writing books, math programs, history books, etc. and I have to realize that I really, really have to pick and choose the best from each - I can't do everything I have, even if I like it - the peril of the well-stocked shelves! I tend to want to read every good book, do every good program.  And that's when we get feeling rushed, overscheduled, etc.  My mission the last couple of years has been to relax:  go slower, thus deeper, and be selective.

 

So in some ways we do less - I don't try to do all subjects.  we're not doing Latin, or formal art of music studies.  I try and integrate things where I can and get double duty - writing+history+grammar, or do some things only part of the year or once a week - like grammar & vocab, and spelling for my older.  Our Subjects are Math, English, History, Science, Spanish, and Metacognition, along will skills practice on handwriting and typing for those who need it.  That's it.

 

However, within those subjects, I feel like we really do more, much more than when we tried to do more subjects.  Each of my students has a focus area for the year, and may work on that subject in multiple ways.  So my 3rd grader's focus is developing independent writing skills, and she's doing a ton of writing this year - writing in history, writing for grammar, writing for spelling.  She'll use all or part of several different writing programs.  My 7th grader's focus is on learning to read and take notes from texts and lectures, and learning to do question/problem/thesis-driven writing.  So this skill is practiced in multiple ways, in history, science, and literature as well as via "writing lessons."  I feel that they are doing much more than if we were just doing one thing for writing, one thing for history, one thing for science, etc.

 

Although again, I have to keep my expectations realistic:  one book, read, annotated, and understood deeply, is more valuable than 3 or 4 books skimmed.  One lecture series, watched, notes taken, discussed, and essays written is worth 3 or 4 listened to superfically while doing other things.  So it's been a big deal for me, an ongoing deal, to be selective and to cross things off the list, to let us linger and dig into things that are engaging.  I have to make plans, but then not get too attached to them.  We can't read every good book or watch every relevant video, lecture, or Coursera class.  Sometimes enough is enough.  

 

So yes, we do less, but more of it.  Enough, i hope, but not too much.  It's a constant stroll on the edge of knife for me as the teacher!  I have to be constantly flexible and willing to adjust.  But it is a mantra I keep chanting in my head - although for me the shorthand chant is "Relax!" inspired by all the relaxed homeschooling threads last year!!!

[FiveOaksAcademy]

Our less is more is in the works daily right now, i.e., it is new for me and we are hammering it out as we go.  I made some switches that have helped this.  We are finally doing Latin and loving it.  Via Latin:  the copy work, Latin, grammar, and vocabulary is getting done in a more streamlined fashion.  We've paired it with the  Memoria Press Grammar recitation book and though it is light, it is allowing us to really focus and get more.  We take those subjects into our reading and look for latin and grammar within our daily reading then integrate those subjects into our writing.  I've combined my 3rd and 5th graders, and this is something I just. never. would. have. done!!  I always felt they needed to be in grade-appropriate curriculum.  I require more of the 5th grader, review what we are learning in little chunks and I'm seeing rules being applied, things clicking, joy...  Also CAP has been a joy for us.  The fact that it can be done in 3 days per week and is enjoyable has been great!!

 

And TOG...who knew I could take that curriculum and make it less and do it from peace and rest.  We're doing it, though, and loving it!!  We aren't far into our year yet, but I grabbed multum non multa and schooling from rest, prayed thoroughly over the implementation of those into our lives, then we just jumped in.  We are loving school this year.  

 

Oh, and math...math!!!  Math is going great.  We use singapore, always have.  My view of it is different.  We work for 30 minutesish per day, maybe more/maybe less.  If there is  a struggle with some topic (like long division last week), we may do 3 or 4 problems then let it go.  We pull it out the next day and keep going.  My 8yo son is loving math more because I'm not hammering on him to get through this many problems or finish this many pages.  When things are easy, he can run through several pages per day.  When they are difficult, it may be half a page.  It all evens out.  

[asmall]

 

 

Oh, and math...math!!! Math is going great. We use singapore, always have. My view of it is different. We work for 30 minutesish per day, maybe more/maybe less. If there is a struggle with some topic (like long division last week), we may do 3 or 4 problems then let it go. We pull it out the next day and keep going. My 8yo son is loving math more because I'm not hammering on him to get through this many problems or finish this many pages. When things are easy, he can run through several pages per day. When they are difficult, it may be half a page. It all evens out.

Love the idea of taking a break when there is a math struggle. I need to try this with my oldest.

AL

[TheAutumnOak]

It depends...

 

I agree with simplicity in general in every area of life...For me, that simply means "enough is enough" and more than that is too much...Less than that is not enough...

 

If you can relax, do less, and get wonderful results - you were probably doing too much...

 

If you are not doing enough (most of us know when we have not been consistent or if we are having problems getting things done), then less will not be more...It will be less than what you were doing, which was not enough...

 

I totally agree that less of too much is more...Being consistent with what is needed is best...

 

The key is figuring out what you need...Do you really need two or three math programs to teach your child the same math principles (addition, fractions, etc)?...If you did one consistently, would your child still learn what he/she needs to know?...Being afraid of missing something seems to be what leads to doing too much...Making a conscience decision about what is needed without the fear and comparisons to other people, and being consistent with that, seems to lead to doing enough...

 

Enough is actually all you need...Not more, not less...

[8filltheheart]

 For me this is a philosophical discussion that revolves around methodology and educational philosophy.  It also incorporates another thread title: "how do you get your children to care about their education?"  

 

In our homeschool, multum non multa and internalizing educational objectives are intertwined.  Education is a both a decision and choice.

 

(I am going to veer off in a small rant:  I had a group of homeschoolers in my home last night and one thing was abundantly clear--- less can simply be less.  It all ties back to education is a decision and a choice.  In order for less to in reality be more, it must actually be a conscious decision with deliberate goals steered by reasoned choices OR the obvious outcome may be that simply doing less leads to simply not educating and children not learning.  That is the antithesis of multum non multa.)

 

My educational objectives are influenced by my desired outcomes.   My goals for my children are directly tied to 3 main objectives: skills, content, and higher order thinking skills (moving through the levels of Bloom's taxonomy.)  My methods for teaching are very deliberate and my children's daily lessons are specifically chosen and assigned with those objectives in sight.  Less is more because I make sure that their assignments do not waste time with busy work.   I respect their intellect and their time.   Assignments are meaningful.  Assignments encompass as many skills/objectives simultaneously as I believe they are capable of mastering. 

 

I also want my children to be invested in their education.   I talk to them about what they are interested in.  We design courses that appeal to their unique personalities and topics that hold high levels of engagement.   By not using pre-fab assignments, but ones that hold that intense appeal, my kids do tend to take ownership over their educations and internal motivation is nurtured.  

 

Multum non multa, however, needs to approached with your eye set as an educator.  It isn't gauged by time.  It isn't about checking off boxes.   It is gauged by mastery of deliberately selected objectives.   There are unlimited options in how those objectives can be met.   The focus should be, however, in making sure they being met.

 

ETA:  I am opposed to overloading my kids with lists of subjects.   Less is also about controlling content.   Focusing deeply on a narrow list provides a far better education, IMHO, than attempting mastery of a laundry list.

 

(Sorry for the rant reply.   It is where my heart is this morning.)

 

 

[TheAutumnOak]

My educational objectives are influenced by my desired outcomes.   My goals for my children are directly tied to 3 main objectives: skills, content, and higher order thinking skills (moving through the levels of Bloom's taxonomy.)  My methods for teaching are very deliberate and my children's daily lesson are specifically chosen and assigned with those objectives in sight.  Less is more because I make sure that their assignments do not waste time with busy work.   I respect their intellect and their time.   Assignments are meaningful.  Assignments encompass as many skills/objectives simultaneously as I believe they are capable of mastering. 

 

 

I think I want to be 8Fill when I grow up  :001_wub: 

[wintermom]

 

ETA:  I am opposed to overloading my kids with lists of subjects.   Less is also about controlling content.   Focusing deeply on a narrow list provides a far better education, IMHO, than attempting mastery of a laundry list.

 

 

 

I agree!  Mastery of a huge list puts so much pressure on the student and the teacher. There are some students that can absorb and thrive on loads of content, though, and they shouldn't be held back.  That's the beauty of homeschooling - we have a much better opportunity to individualize the education for each child so that the student gets the content and depth that they can handle when they can handle it.

 

 

[momto2Cs]

I realized this morning that I was overplanning again, and adding in more than we should even attempt to tackle. For example, while I'd like to go through OUP's Medieval & Early Modern World with the kids, adding in historical and other fiction, our schedule is already more heavily laden with science, which my children enjoy more than history. Reverting back to using Human Odyssey, and subsequently cutting back on out matching up historical fiction (back to our LoTR based lit for the year) gives us some more breathing room, room to soak in what we're learning rather than rushing through it.

[Chrysalis Academy]

Gillian, I did the same thing - realized that with a very heavy science schedule, I needed to back way off on history and let go of matching up history and literature for this year.  It was a huge load off my mind!

 

So Shannon is doing heavy science and little history, Morgan is doing heavy history and tag-along science, so I'm *not* teaching two separate history and two separate sciences this year!  Whew!!

[Sobeknofret]

I'm beginning to realize this same thing as well. The fewer subjects that we do every day, allows us to plunge deeper into those subjects and explore connections more thoroughly. I've been trying to cram too much into a short space of time and stressing the whole family out as a result. The only thing that remains constant from day to day is math and Latin, because those are his two favorite subjects and he loves to do them everyday. Everything else gets done much more slowly.

[Sahamamama]

So for those of you who feel like you've hit on the "right amount" can you help those of us who feel like we aren't getting it yet? What is the right amount, and what do you cut to get there? (Bravewriter's philosophy was mentioned as a possible example in the subject of writing...)

 

Some examples of how "less is more" gets implemented in our homeschool:

 

1. This past school year (3rd, 1st, 1st), we focused quite a bit on American History (Part 2). We learned so much and enjoyed our time in America's past. However, we did less Science than in previous years, and didn't get to finish as much Music Theory as we had planned. I didn't sweat it at all. We did explore some concepts in Earth Science, do quite a bit of Nature Study, and several units in Health, but our main focus was History. So, Science was "less" this past year, in order for History to be "more."

 

This upcoming school year (4th, 2nd, 2nd, starting in September), we plan to switch the emphasis in content subjects to Science and Music, and just keep the History bookshelf open and well-stocked. I want to give the girls an opportunity to revisit those books again, write about what they've read, and listen to history-related audiobooks. Nothing formal here, no lessons or projects or assignments, except "History: Choose, read, report." For them, that will be enough. They all are avid readers, love to write independently, and will gladly put their masterpieces into a History Notebook. ;)

 

So for us, sometimes "less is more" means that we don't insist that EVERY subject is taught EVERY week, ALL year, EVERY year. Some things may be for a season, some things may drop out for a bit, then spiral back around. While this isn't unschooling, it is less stressful than trying to do everything at the same intensity, all the time, each year.

 

2. Another example: We use Horizons Math. It's... okay. I have mixed feelings most days, but I've learned to keep them mostly to myself. What I've learned is that sometimes the student does not need to do every single problem on the page. I have this nifty red pen, and I use it. If the student has ABSOLUTELY mastered an exercise on that day's lesson (and I don't think she ought to practice), I slash through that exercise with the red pen. My oldest daughter usually says, "Oh, I love you, Mommy, you're the best mother in the world." LOL. But, she knows she knows it, and is relieved to be freed from the busywork. In this case, "less is more" because it motivates the student and lets her see that mastery sometimes releases her from drudgery.

 

3. Final example: Personally, as a teacher, who is also their parent, "less is more" just tells me to let things go when a student is moving along nicely. That is to say, "less is more" helps me to stop box-checking and ask myself, "If we don't finish all of this heap of work, but we work diligently and consistently and peacefully, will they make progress?" I have found that, at least here for my children, the answer is "yes." I always know that I'm planning too much, but I'm okay with that. It's like when my mother has four people for company, and makes enough for fifteen -- just to be safe! So you have leftovers. It's okay. If we accomplish 75% or 80% of the school work we've lined up, that's still a very solid, academically-oriented year. The 100% was always "too much," I (now) know that from the start, but if it isn't ready-to-go, we'll never attempt it. So, the buffet is prepared and spread. No one is going to eat everything of everything.

 

Towards the end of the school year, there are bits and pieces that we wrap up and finish (because closure feels good). There are bits and pieces that we roll over into the next year (because we can). There are things that we felt were worthless, that we let go of long ago (because we hate wasting time on busywork). And there are things that we haven't done in so long, we don't remember them at all. Like Building Thinking Skills for logic. I don't know why I piled that on the heap for 3rd grade? It fell off. That's okay.

 

HTH.

 

 

 

 

 

[Hedgehogs4]

I have always felt that "less is more" in the same sense that 8Fills does... Quality, not quantity, mastery of what matters...

 

That said, my ds is starting 8th grade this year and I find myself under tons of personal pressure to prepare him for high school--like somehow that is going to change how we educate. I find myself under some weird pressure to prepare him for life as a robot.  :huh:  I don't like the thought that I will have to suddenly start assigning a value to things we have always done and test him for things that are drivel, and prepare him for an institution that may or may not value anything that we have done (i.e. university / college). It is taking all of my will to cling to what I know is best, and not fill in check boxes just for the exercise of getting things done for "credit." Then again, how important is it that he know that unfortunately, that is how the world works these days and it is just something we have to put up with and so... I'm not even sure this post makes sense, but then again I'm not sure if I'm making sense to myself right now. I just find myself in a weird transition point and I don't know how things are going to work out...

 

[8filltheheart]

Kelly,

 

I do not radically change what we do for high school. The only major change we do make is the switch to textbooks for high school science (and only for the main sequence courses. My ds created independent science studies using a different approach.)

 

An example of not changing radically--I designed philosophy and lit courses that fed into each other. Ds had a high school lit class that created around CS Lewis. I created other lit classes around what we wanted to do, including a lit class designed around the movie Inception.

 

The key to this as a successful approach for my kids has been the level of the materials. Their courses have been more on par with undergrad type studies which was the appropriate level of challenge for them. But, the courses also reflected similar educational goals as typical high school classes (lit classes discussing conflict themes, literary devices, essays, etc.). It was simply what was used to achieve those goals which was different. No school had an issue with my 4 homeschool grads' transcripts.

[AimeeM]

We always ease into the school year because of the Much Not Many/Less is More. All the subjects right away is just overwhelming for both DS and me. We add two subjects each week. It means we have the ability to really get flowing with the books, time, and enjoyment without rushing. Adding in reading for a half hour doesn't require cramming things in if we have math and history already down. Ten minutes of handwriting is just one little thing in two weeks rather than meltdown- worthy on the first day at three thirty when all my son wants to do is plug into the computer and vegetate.

 

Slow and steady definitely wins the race around here!

 

That makes me feel better. We're still easing into our year and I was panicking a bit because right now DD13 is only getting done (daily) math, writing, literature, and either etymology or science. I'm trying to add more in as we move into our school year. DS5 is only up to phonics, handwriting, and math. Today I'm going to add in our Catholic Mosaic reading for both... but I feel better now :)

[Hedgehogs4]

Kelly,

 

I do not radically change what we do for high school. The only major change we do make is the switch to textbooks for high school science (and only for the main sequence courses. My ds created independent science studies using a different approach.)

 

An example of not changing radically--I designed philosophy and lit courses that fed into each other. Ds had a high school lit class that created around CS Lewis. I created other lit classes around what we wanted to do, including a lit class designed around the movie Inception.

 

The key to this as a successful approach for my kids has been the level of the materials. Their courses have been more on par with undergrad type studies which was the appropriate level of challenge for them. But, the courses also reflected similar educational goals as typical high school classes (lit classes discussing conflict themes, literary devices, essays, etc.). It was simply what was used to achieve those goals which was different. No school had an issue with my 4 homeschool grads' transcripts.

 

Thank you so much! It is strange  how a small thing like just hearing from someone else who has done it, even if it's not the way you would do it yourself can just kind of have a "shhhhhhh, there, there..." effect. I really needed that. I love the idea of how you build your lit and philosophy courses, though! Sounds like some great stuff to think about as we move forward this year. 

[momto2Cs]

I have always felt that "less is more" in the same sense that 8Fills does... Quality, not quantity, mastery of what matters...

 

That said, my ds is starting 8th grade this year and I find myself under tons of personal pressure to prepare him for high school--like somehow that is going to change how we educate. I find myself under some weird pressure to prepare him for life as a robot.  :huh:  I don't like the thought that I will have to suddenly start assigning a value to things we have always done and test him for things that are drivel, and prepare him for an institution that may or may not value anything that we have done (i.e. university / college). It is taking all of my will to cling to what I know is best, and not fill in check boxes just for the exercise of getting things done for "credit." Then again, how important is it that he know that unfortunately, that is how the world works these days and it is just something we have to put up with and so... I'm not even sure this post makes sense, but then again I'm not sure if I'm making sense to myself right now. I just find myself in a weird transition point and I don't know how things are going to work out...

 

I feel exactly the same way! My ds is also an 8th grader this year, and I find myself suddenly worrying that the approach we've taken for years isn't good enough, or that I am going to fail him somehow when it comes time for him to go out into the "real" world. It's definitely a transitional time, but I need to let up on the (self) pressure.

[idnib]

I realized this morning that I was overplanning again, and adding in more than we should even attempt to tackle. For example, while I'd like to go through OUP's Medieval & Early Modern World with the kids, adding in historical and other fiction, our schedule is already more heavily laden with science, which my children enjoy more than history. Reverting back to using Human Odyssey, and subsequently cutting back on matching up historical fiction gives us some more breathing room, room to soak in what we're learning rather than rushing through it. OR we might use Big History????

 

I also decided I was doing too much and have decided to stretch OUP out over a longer time. I'm also giving up all historical fiction, and I'm thinking about not trying to be so matchy-matchy with literature. It's not Garanimals, I keep telling myself. 

[Jerico]

For me this is a philosophical discussion that revolves around methodology and educational philosophy. It also incorporates another thread title: "how do you get your children to care about their education?"

 

In our homeschool, multum non multa and internalizing educational objectives are intertwined. Education is a both a decision and choice.

 

(I am going to veer off in a small rant: I had a group of homeschoolers in my home last night and one thing was abundantly clear--- less can simply be less. It all ties back to education is a decision and a choice. In order for less to in reality be more, it must actually be a conscious decision with deliberate goals steered by reasoned choices OR the obvious outcome may be that simply doing less leads to simply not educating and children not learning. That is the antithesis of multum non multa.)

 

My educational objectives are influenced by my desired outcomes. My goals for my children are directly tied to 3 main objectives: skills, content, and higher order thinking skills (moving through the levels of Bloom's taxonomy.) My methods for teaching are very deliberate and my children's daily lessons are specifically chosen and assigned with those objectives in sight. Less is more because I make sure that their assignments do not waste time with busy work. I respect their intellect and their time. Assignments are meaningful. Assignments encompass as many skills/objectives simultaneously as I believe they are capable of mastering.

 

I also want my children to be invested in their education. I talk to them about what they are interested in. We design courses that appeal to their unique personalities and topics that hold high levels of engagement. By not using pre-fab assignments, but ones that hold that intense appeal, my kids do tend to take ownership over their educations and internal motivation is nurtured.

 

Multum non multa, however, needs to approached with your eye set as an educator. It isn't gauged by time. It isn't about checking off boxes. It is gauged by mastery of deliberately selected objectives. There are unlimited options in how those objectives can be met. The focus should be, however, in making sure they being met.

 

ETA: I am opposed to overloading my kids with lists of subjects. Less is also about controlling content. Focusing deeply on a narrow list provides a far better education, IMHO, than attempting mastery of a laundry list.

 

(Sorry for the rant reply. It is where my heart is this morning.)

I've recently came across multum non multa. It really spoke to me. Its starting to change the way i think about things.

 

And the. We just had a horrible week. We did math 2 days (both days took forever. Lots of tears). He did not complete a writing assignment at all. So yesterday and today we have done nothing but listen to audiobooks and play legos. And i start overthinking- especially when adding my second son in next year in 1st grade. And then i wonder how much of my future plans are built on my laziness. And then I worry that it won't be enough. Maybe my teaching from rest won't be sufficient. And since its different for everybody i can't really ask for someone to confirm my curriculum plans.

 

Now my rant is over.

[Hedgehogs4]

I've recently came across multum non multa. It really spoke to me. Its starting to change the way i think about things.

 

And the. We just had a horrible week. We did math 2 days (both days took forever. Lots of tears). He did not complete a writing assignment at all. So yesterday and today we have done nothing but listen to audiobooks and play legos. And i start overthinking- especially when adding my second son in next year in 1st grade. And then i wonder how much of my future plans are built on my laziness. And then I worry that it won't be enough. Maybe my teaching from rest won't be sufficient. And since its different for everybody i can't really ask for someone to confirm my curriculum plans.

 

Now my rant is over.

 

Kids resort to tears when they cannot articulate their struggle. It sounds to me like what you did was spot-on. Back off, come back to it after both of you have had a chance to get some space from the frustration. It doesn't mean he'll never do math again. He needs to know you're on his side. If he's crying over math, it might be the approach, but so often in my case it is my attitude toward the thing that causes tears. I realized that I've put too much pressure to just get stuff done and not taken enough time to rethink it, look at it from a new perspective, make a game of it. YMMV...

 

[8filltheheart]

I've recently came across multum non multa. It really spoke to me. Its starting to change the way i think about things.

 

And the. We just had a horrible week. We did math 2 days (both days took forever. Lots of tears). He did not complete a writing assignment at all. So yesterday and today we have done nothing but listen to audiobooks and play legos. And i start overthinking- especially when adding my second son in next year in 1st grade. And then i wonder how much of my future plans are built on my laziness. And then I worry that it won't be enough. Maybe my teaching from rest won't be sufficient. And since its different for everybody i can't really ask for someone to confirm my curriculum plans.

 

Now my rant is over.

Would you mind clarifying your post? Since you quoted mine, I am interpreting your rant in response to my post.

 

I stand by what I said. People seek me out for educational assistance when things are going horribly wrong. 99% of the time the problem is the notion that anything they do is better than ps, and that due to that mistaken belief, education is not a deliberate daily decision.

 

Educating our children has to be a decision. It is a choice we are making. Not making it a decision is in reality making one by default.

 

It sounds like you assessed the situation and made a reasoned choice based on the scenario you were dealing with. That is both a decision and a choice. It is not the same as making the decision where less is simply less (or even nothing.)

[Jerico]

I'm sorry, I'm not very articulate sometimes!

 

I will try again. I love the idea that less is more but I'm afraid I will end up doing less is less like you were saying. And having a rough week makes me want to give up. Then I wonder if I seek out simplicity because I am being lazy. I know thats not true but I want to successfully raise and educate my children.

 

I am not sure my second try was any better.

[asmall]

Science was "less" this past year, in order for History to be "more."

 

 

So for us, sometimes "less is more" means that we don't insist that EVERY subject is taught EVERY week, ALL year, EVERY year. Some things may be for a season, some things may drop out for a bit, then spiral back around. While this isn't unschooling, it is less stressful than trying to do everything at the same intensity, all the time, each year.

 

 

HTH.

I agree!

AL

[TeaCookiesBears]

Less is more has worked for oldest dd in the way of block scheduling she has 3 subjects per day instead of of six. I have seen dd get more done in one day than I have ever seen her do with daily scheduling and is now progressing faster than expected.

 

Focusing on fewer subjects daily without the sacrifice on quality has also been a lot easier on me and my sanity too I have noticed that everyone is less stressed and feel they are really learning more than they did before the change.

[brookspr]

You all have reminded me why I listened to all of those Multum Non Multa talks, read the articles and purchased the Teaching from a State of Rest bundle. After hearing all of those talks, I went through our plans for this year and removed all of the fluff from our schedule, but the one thing I did not do was give us the freedom to work at our own pace thru the year. My son had a hard time last year (our first year homeschooling) figuring out how to get the work done that was assigned each week. We tried a daily schedule and then switched to just a list for the week. I think this was too much pressure for him, he felt defeated before even starting. I started making our schedule on One Note a couple of weeks ago and have decided to change it from weekly assignments to having a tab for each subject and lesson but no timeframe for completing the work. He can read a book in two days if he wants, then move onto science or history, or he can do a little from each subject every day. He can change it up from day to day, week to week. I think we will actually get more done this way because he won't feel so overwhelmed that he just shuts it all down. It will be better for all of us not to have that feeling like we're already behind schedule by Tuesday of each week :/

 

We will be starting next week and easing into it be doing some together time with both kids (grammar, logic, and Latin) and probably reading the rest of the day. Science, math and writing will work their way in by the end of September.

[asmall]

Less is more has worked for oldest dd in the way of block scheduling she has 3 subjects per day instead of of six. I have seen dd get more done in one day than I have ever seen her do with daily scheduling and is now progressing faster than expected.

 

Focusing on fewer subjects daily without the sacrifice on quality has also been a lot easier on me and my sanity too I have noticed that everyone is less stressed and feel they are really learning more than they did before the change.

I've noticed this too. We are doing rotating blocks of history science and geography this year, instead of each subject all year long. I like how having fewer subjects each day gives you more time to focus on the subjects you are doing.

 

AL

[Slache]

Teaching from a State of Rest bundle. 

 

What is this?

[wellread]

What I've learned is that sometimes the student does not need to do every single problem on the page. I have this nifty red pen, and I use it. If the student has ABSOLUTELY mastered an exercise on that day's lesson (and I don't think she ought to practice), I slash through that exercise with the red pen. My oldest daughter usually says, "Oh, I love you, Mommy, you're the best mother in the world." LOL. But, she knows she knows it, and is relieved to be freed from the busywork. In this case, "less is more" because it motivates the student and lets her see that mastery sometimes releases her from drudgery.

 

3. Final example: Personally, as a teacher, who is also their parent, "less is more" just tells me to let things go when a student is moving along nicely. That is to say, "less is more" helps me to stop box-checking and ask myself, "If we don't finish all of this heap of work, but we work diligently and consistently and peacefully, will they make progress?" I have found that, at least here for my children, the answer is "yes." I always know that I'm planning too much, but I'm okay with that. It's like when my mother has four people for company, and makes enough for fifteen -- just to be safe! So you have leftovers. It's okay. If we accomplish 75% or 80% of the school work we've lined up, that's still a very solid, academically-oriented year. The 100% was always "too much," I (now) know that from the start, but if it isn't ready-to-go, we'll never attempt it. So, the buffet is prepared and spread. No one is going to eat everything of everything.

 

...

 

HTH.

 

I need to start using that red pen.  I'm one of those people who always have too much food.  Now I have too much curriculum,  er,  the right amount of curriculum for me to look at to educate myself-- but too much curriculum to use it all with the kids.

 

Really helpful thread. 

 

Love 8FillTheHeart's focus on goals.   I have a goal of stretching/challenging/developing  DS's (3rd grade) mind.  I recently read an email from Sal Khan with the following : "Researchers have known for some time that the brain is like a muscle; that the more you use it, the more it grows.  They've found that neural connections form and deepen most when we make mitakes doing difficult tasks rather than repeatedly having success with easy ones.   What this means is that or intelligence is not fixed, and the best way that we can grow our intelligence is to embrace tasks where we might struggle and fail."

 

So I am deliberately adding in the study of Latin for him (plus I serendipitously scored a nice deal on Prima Latin DVDS) on top of our study of Spanish.  I am going to try to remember that my goal for Spanish is to REALLY be able to understand spoken Spanish and speak it.  (And some day several years into the future we will learn to read/write Spanish).  But my goal for Latin (for ds) is to challenge him.  I don't really care if he learns Latin--I just want to challenge him and give his brain a workout.   (Well maybe I care in the sense that it might be fun to brag about my son studying Latin and Spanish   :coolgleamA:--naughty me :glare:, now that I've 'fessed up, I'll have to watch out for my bad motives....)

 

So if Latin creates a melt-down (a little too much challenge/failure) that can't be over-come by celebrating his "brain growth" with him, I'll back off.  Or if it interfers with something else, I'll back off.  Or if it costs too much in terms of time... I'll back off.  Or if its too easy, I'll add something else in (Greek she said with an evil laugh, or maybe a few harder math problems .....) 

 

On the other hand, with Spanish, there is no backing off, just deeper and different.... like maybe at some point all our entertainment videos might only be played in Spanish?)

 

I also believe in providing a rich environment and planting seeds and then letting go-- just watering and weeding.  Yesterday my 2 third graders (ds and dd) played with the advanced snapcircuits for a looong time.  My son just reads tons.  Junk books _and_ other 'good' books I have lying around. The other day I found him out in the car, sitting on a cooler in the car, reading a book of poetry--he just couldn't wait to bring the library books in the house -- he had to sit on a cooler, squashed against the roof of the car in the heat and read the poems.  My dd has taken up studying birds, so we bought bird feeders and bird food (kind of silly as we live on a farm....) but it creates a rich environment for her to study birds.

 

At the same time, though, heeding the warnings from several posters above about 'less is more' being an excuse for doing nothing, sometimes I really have to insist on certain subjects/work.  My daughter would never read (other than studying reference books about nature--and I'm not sure she's actually reading them--maybe just studying the pictures) if I didn't insist on us reading together everyday.  And neither would just off and go do some math.  (Though dd is starting to independently do old math workbooks I have lying around-- she paints the answers in-- she loves workbooks and checkboxes--different personality than ds)

 

... right now, for me, less is more might _really_ mean, "less time on WTM board"  :lol: - I've gone berserk reading things here the last few days.

 

... and some people are probably thinking... less words typed, PLEASE!!!!

 

 

[Mrs. A]

What is this?

 

 

I'm assuming that this is what is being referred to as the Teaching from Rest bundle. 

 

But it could also be a reference to these videos.

[brookspr]

Yes, the first link is what I was referring to in my post, I got the name slightly wrong. Teaching from Rest is found on the blog Amongst Living Things. It is a workbook and series of audio files about how to teach from rest. It is a refreshing way to think about homeschooling for someone like me who likes to plan, always wants to make sure she is doing "enough" and using "the best" curriculum. It has made me rethink my approach to the school year and I've rearranged our work so it isn't so scheduled. There are also some free audio talks by Chris Perrin on the subject of Multum non Multa on youtube which relays a similar message, although they don't really get into the how, but discuss more of the why.

 

I'm assuming that this is what is being referred to as the Teaching from Rest bundle.

 

But it could also be a reference to these videos.

[Dina in Oklahoma]

I had the same revelation tonight! Boy, did I need to see this! Thanks~

I realized this morning that I was overplanning again, and adding in more than we should even attempt to tackle. For example, while I'd like to go through OUP's Medieval & Early Modern World with the kids, adding in historical and other fiction, our schedule is already more heavily laden with science, which my children enjoy more than history. Reverting back to using Human Odyssey, and subsequently cutting back on out matching up historical fiction (back to our LoTR based lit for the year) gives us some more breathing room, room to soak in what we're learning rather than rushing through it.