C/C -- ? for those with courtship experience

[Nestof3]

First, please do not post here unless you or your children have had experience with a more courtship style experience OR if you approve of this experience.

 

Please do not use this thread as a chance to argue courtship's merits/downfalls.

 

******************************

 

My son is interested in a young lady from our church meeting. We home church. He has been interested in her for three years. He would like to get to know her better in order to determine if he would like to seek permission from her father to court her.

 

With so many people at our meeting, it is often difficult to have time to get to know her one-on-one. We are looking to have her over more, for example, this week, she and her older brother attended The Man Called Jesus Play with our family. Prior to the performance, we played Catch Phrase and had pizza, cake and ice cream.

 

We had a lovely time. Unfortunately, this is difficult to do often, as they live an hour from us.

 

One of the difficulties for my son is that a few years ago, this young lady specifically asked for my friendship, and because of this, when we all get together, she and I end up spending most of the time together, one on one. I think she is just lovely and enjoy her company.

 

She is a shy sort of young lady, not forward, talkative with boys, etc.

 

My son is wondering if he should tell her father that he would like to get to know her better so that he can be a little more upfront with him as to his intentions.

 

I was hoping those with experience regarding this could chime in.

[SonshineLearner]

Don't have a lot of experience our girls haven't dated or courted, yet. It sounds lovely, though. It might be hard if they end up not working out, but it would be a wonderful start for a daughter-in-law. I know another homeschool family, where the girl learned everything from the woman(canning, baking, etc...), and then ended up marrying her son...It looks really good!

Carrie:-)

[newlifemom]

Dawn,

 

Since you home church do you have a shared fellowship afterward? Is it possible at those times for him to be able to speak to her in sight of others of course? IDK, the more I think about it courtship is the chance to get to know someone with the idea of marriage being the outcome, right? Is he ready for this committment? If so, then I think he should probably talk to her father and see what happens. Sadly, courting is such a 'new' thing in this day and age that I am not sure what it should look like. Sorry I couldn't be more help.

[Nestof3]

Dawn,

 

Since you home church do you have a shared fellowship afterward? Is it possible at those times for him to be able to speak to her in sight of others of course? IDK, the more I think about it courtship is the chance to get to know someone with the idea of marriage being the outcome, right? Is he ready for this committment? If so, then I think he should probably talk to her father and see what happens. Sadly, courting is such a 'new' thing in this day and age that I am not sure what it should look like. Sorry I couldn't be more help.

 

He would like to finish college and be hired prior to marriage, but emotionally, he is fabulous -- very grown up, a fabulous gentleman, a hard worker. I am just so impressed by him. He floors me, honestly by his integrity. For example, in the play we watched, the adultress woman came out with a sheet wrapped around her, and he bent his head down to avoid looking at her. He is very focused on preparing himself to be a provider and protector.

 

He would really like to get to spend this time getting to know her better, and though we usually stay to eat and such after the meeting, it's pretty chaotic as each family has 8-9 children, then she is usually talking to the moms, etc. He does initiate conversation, but at the same time, he is cautious not to focus too much on her in case her father finds it inappropriate. He really doesn't initiate conversation with the other young ladies.

 

They do both love music, and similar celtic style, so they exhange CDs and discuss music. The last time we had fellowship at their house, she played guitar afterward while he played his penny whistle. He was cute.

[Nestof3]

My mom was very good friends with my grandmother (they worked together) before she ever met my dad. My grandmother sort of matched them up.

[Scarlett]

One of the difficulties for my son is that a few years ago, this young lady specifically asked for my friendship, and because of this, when we all get together, she and I end up spending most of the time together, one on one. I think she is just lovely and enjoy her company.

 

I find this very telling......I'm sure you are a lovely woman and all, but don't ya figure she might have her (shy) sights on your son for a while now?

 

I don't know....my niece has taken a keen interest in a woman in our congregation...just so happens she has a teenage boy...

 

My first question....are they both old enough? If so, then I think your son should just kick it up a notch or two. I imagine it would be a difficult thing to do....I mean "I" wouldn't want to be the boy in such a situation....but someone has to take the first definitive step.

[Scarlett]

.

Edited April 13, 2009 by Scarlett
double post

[gevs4him]

I vote that he does seek her fathers permission.

Having a teenage daughter (18) - we were very pleased that a young man whom wanted to get to know our daughter talked to her father and asked permission to come to our home - be with our family and get to know her better. They both respect our courting guildlines and we enjoy their company.:) Hope this helps.

Blessings

Lisa

[Peek a Boo]

I vote that he does seek her fathers permission.

Having a teenage daughter (18) - we were very pleased that a young man

 

I agree.

The FIRST step is to speak w/ her father, and then possibly both parents before making any invitations. part of courtship is involving both sets of parents.

 

I haven't gotten to the BTDT stage -only eperienced it by observing other amilies where it has been successful--, but while reading the OP I was waiting for the part about "we've already talked to her father...." :D

 

Asking the dad isn't really a "wondering if" question, but a "wondering how soon" question. If he's interested in pursuing a serious courtship, then he needs to find out now if his actions will be well received before he invests some serious heart into it. And vice versa.

 

If both families are interested in encouraging a courting atmosphere, then there will be no question or vague discomfort when they are both encouraged to leave your side and chat on the couch or at the table. :) At that point, both families will hold them accountable to GET to know each other better.

 

eta: have y'all read any books about courtship? have her parents? I'd suggest making sure everyone is on the same page, or at least, has read the same book ......

Edited April 12, 2009 by Peek a Boo
"uncomfortableness"? i need some sleep, lol......

[Supertechmom]

Oh Boy! We are trying to figure out how to navigate this though we have a few years ahead of us. Are you and the mom friends enough to discuss this? I know I have all ready had one mom approach me to let me know of very innocent attention in my son by her house of girls. Just wondering if the same approach could be used here. Maybe a "my son would like to go over and spend the afternoon with ya'll doing ________" Or does the dad need some work done around the house that he could use a helper?? I really don't know how to get to the "i've seen enough of you to go a step further stage" Approaching the father sounds maybe out of left field right now IF the only attention your son has given the girl is what you described. I would think that perhaps your son spending time with the dad and family away from the church setting before asking if he could pursue a possible courtship might be better. But then I am so not there yet that I could be way up the wrong tree. :D Keep us posted as I really want to know how to make this work for our kiddos.

[Peek a Boo]

Oh Boy! We are trying to figure out how to navigate this though we have a few years ahead of us. ......I really don't know how to get to the "i've seen enough of you to go a step further stage" Approaching the father sounds maybe out of left field right now IF the only attention your son has given the girl is what you described. I would think that perhaps your son spending time with the dad and family away from the church setting before asking if he could pursue a possible courtship might be better. But then I am so not there yet that I could be way up the wrong tree. :D Keep us posted as I really want to know how to make this work for our kiddos.

 

It's my understanding that the families work together to establish some non-romantic opportunities so the two can become more acquainted before seeking "official" courtship.

 

1. We'd like to get the opportunity to become FRIENDS. This is where parents are overseeing the relationship to make sure the kids aren't taking it too far, too fast. There is probably no hand-holding, sitting on laps, kissing, or snuggling :)

 

2. once they are prepared to take on the role of a spouse, THEN they seek permission to actively COURT: asking for her hand in marriage and courting to fulfill that. discussing family matters, roles of spouses, how they intend to establish their household, plans for THEIR future, planning a wedding. If stage 1 went ok, stage 2 should progress a lot more in-depth. If either set of parents sees signs that act as huge flags, the other set of parents is notified and everyone sits down to discuss the hows and whys of what is going on.

 

so the big question would be: how many months/ years out is Dawn's ds interested in becoming a married man? That needs to be specified upfront to the girl's father: "Sir, I am not ready for marriage till I have completed A, B, and C, but i would like the opportunity to get to know X a little better to determine if we have enough similar interests to even consider a courtship in the future."

 

I think having her son help the dad around the house is a GREAT idea, too.

[Amber in AUS]

so the big question would be: how many months/ years out is Dawn's ds interested in becoming a married man? That needs to be specified upfront to the girl's father: "Sir, I am not ready for marriage till I have completed A, B, and C, but i would like the opportunity to get to know X a little better to determine if we have enough similar interests to even consider a courtship in the future."

 

 

:iagree:

 

I don't really know anything about how it all works but I would have to say that I think being upfront and honest is best. He does want to get to know her a little better, he doesn't want to formally court her because he doesn't really know her yet. I would go down that path. I have honest intentions, I'd like to get to know her, if we do like each other then I would like to court but would like to do x, y & z before getting married.

 

Who knows, this Dad might have other ideas about marrying off his daughter.

[Rosie_0801]

"Sir, I am not ready for marriage till I have completed A, B, and C, but i would like the opportunity to get to know X a little better to determine if we have enough similar interests to even consider a courtship in the future."

 

 

Step one is for Daddy to think Dawn's son is a great guy. Step two is for Missy to think so. This should accomplish step one pretty well!

 

Good luck to the lad!

 

:)

Rosie

[Nestof3]

I agree.

The FIRST step is to speak w/ her father, and then possibly both parents before making any invitations. part of courtship is involving both sets of parents.

 

I haven't gotten to the BTDT stage -only eperienced it by observing other amilies where it has been successful--, but while reading the OP I was waiting for the part about "we've already talked to her father...." :D

 

Asking the dad isn't really a "wondering if" question, but a "wondering how soon" question. If he's interested in pursuing a serious courtship, then he needs to find out now if his actions will be well received before he invests some serious heart into it. And vice versa.

 

If both families are interested in encouraging a courting atmosphere, then there will be no question or vague discomfort when they are both encouraged to leave your side and chat on the couch or at the table. :) At that point, both families will hold them accountable to GET to know each other better.

 

eta: have y'all read any books about courtship? have her parents? I'd suggest making sure everyone is on the same page, or at least, has read the same book ......

 

Yes, this is all precisely why my son would like to speak to her father.

 

Both of our families have read books and listened to teachings on courtship and agree that this is the style we would like to pursue.

[Nestof3]

Thanks ladies. Your comments have helped a lot.

 

I am friends with her mom as well, but my son would really like to be the one to speak to her father first.

[Amber in AUS]

Tell him go for it!! You'll have to let us know how it goes.

[Chris in VA]

May I ask a question? What is the difference between courting and engagement, if courting entails the things Peek said? I like the way she phrased the conversation starter line to her dad! Boy, I hope someone does that for my dd.

 

Your son sounds lovely.

 

And you have 3 boys, right? ...:D

[Pamela H in Texas]

I agree.

The FIRST step is to speak w/ her father, and then possibly both parents before making any invitations. part of courtship is involving both sets of parents.

 

I agree too, BUT....

 

I think the timing is inappropriate. Our last circuit overseer (think Paul in the Greek Scriptures) encouraged young men and women to "look away." It is best for them to be where they need to be BEFORE even LOOKING more intently.

 

If he's going to go to college and get a job still, there are YEARS of maturing they will both do. They quite possibly won't be even kinda the same people after 4 years!

 

For us? If a young man approached my hubby (and I sure hope he would!), he would be given scriptural counsel about waiting, getting his life in order, etc. It would be VERY kindly done and the invitation would be held out to him to come ask when he's ready. But very few 18yos are ready in ANY sense (I know, I know; some people do it and do it well).

 

But it isn't about AGE. It's about where they are in LIFE. Come to us when you're ready for whatever may happen (falling in love, marriage, children, etc). Being a good guy is a great start, but I want to see you able to take care of my daughter in ALL ways. A kid coming to me is cute and all, but I am not okaying courting, at any level, to a kid. Now, if he were whatever age, had been involved in ministry works for years, was reaching out for greater responsibility, had a job that would pay the bills, etc? That would be completely different. It's the difference between a kid and a man. And the difference between permission and not.

 

In the meantime, keep the status quo. They can chat, things will come out over time, they can get to know each other at armslength, ya know what I mean? And when he's ready to be a man spiritually, financially, emotionally, mentally, etc, then he can approach the father for permission to step it up.

 

I'm hoping I'm making any sense. Basically, I think the focus should be on making himself a desirable and proper husband-to-be BEFORE pursuing a relationship that may lead into him being a husband one day. And really, it doesn't necessarily take any more time to do it in that order. If he isn't going to be married for several years either way, why not focus on his own journey so he can be what he'll need to be when the time comes?

Edited April 12, 2009 by 2J5M9K

[stripe]

I am also curious about the issue of waiting for years and years to get married. It seems to me to be somewhat difficult (in terms of controlling one's desires, both emotional and physical) to postpone marriage for, say, seven years so that someone gets all their ducks in a row -- although I understand the "romance" of reading/hearing about a long engagement particularly in other times, from prophets to characters in books, and I understand that the idea that it's nice to be "settled" before marriage. If there is no way that your son would be ready for marriage for, say, seven years, it is already asking for a type of long-term commitment to even consent to have one's daughter involved in this, if you get my drift. Because a young woman who might like to be married at, say, 20 is having to consent up-front to a much later marriage.

[Amber in AUS]

Interesting comments Pamela. So him wanting to know more about her is a relationship to you? I would think it would be a friendship. I'm not really sure how your religion works etc, but if it were a guy friend he would know more about them, I'm not sure I see the difference in him finding out more about her with her parents consent. Perhaps they wont even like each other that much when they do have that chance to find out more and courtship wont be an issue because they will look to other people. Perhaps she and her parents would be happy for her to wait so that he can be a good provider.

 

I also see your point that they may be different people in 4 to 7 years time.

[Amber in AUS]

Interesting comments Pamela. So him wanting to know more about her is a relationship to you? I would think it would be a friendship. I'm not really sure how your religion works etc, but if it were a guy friend he would know more about them, I'm not sure I see the difference in him finding out more about her with her parents consent. Perhaps they wont even like each other that much when they do have that chance to find out more and courtship wont be an issue because they will look to other people. Perhaps she and her parents would be happy for her to wait so that he can be a good provider.

 

I also see your point that they may be different people in 4 to 7 years time.

[Scarlett]

I agree too, BUT....

 

I think the timing is inappropriate. If he's going to go to college and get a job still, there are YEARS of maturing they will both do. They quite possibly won't be even kinda the same people after 4 years!

 

very few 18yos are ready in ANY sense (I know, I know; some people do it and do it well).

 

 

I'm hoping I'm making any sense. Basically, I think the focus should be on making himself a desirable and proper husband-to-be BEFORE pursuing a relationship that may lead into him being a husband one day. And really, it doesn't necessarily take any more time to do it in that order. If he isn't going to be married for several years either way, why not focus on his own journey so he can be what he'll need to be when the time comes?

 

:iagree:

 

It is possible to think a young man is a good potential mate, but insist he and your dd wait a few more years before becoming too attached. My sister had this exact situation...her dd was about 15 or 16, and an 18 or so yo was interested in her. The parents allowed phone calls and such for a brief while until they realized that strong feelings were being felt...so they politely told the boy, 'you are both way too young. Go away and come back when she is grown.' So they contined to be in the same social circles, but they did not date or talk privately or anything like that. When my niece was about 20 he did indeed come back and they are now married with 2 small children...they've been married about 6 years now I think. I think it is a sweet story, but it highlights the point that 'waiting' needs to involve no real relationship contact until both parties are old enough and ready enough to be married. Otherwise, the engagement might need to be too long and ya know the trouble that leads to. ;)

[Pamela H in Texas]

Amber,

 

I guess I see no reason to PURSUE a friendship formally. My kids know the other kids in the congregation. They talk before meetings just as they talk to the adults, they do community service together (and with the adults), they exchange friend codes for the Wii, whatever. If one is cleaning the front doors of the hall, another can be watering the flowers and they can chat about WHATEVER comes into their heads. At gatherings they play board games, card games, wii games, sit and talk about whatever, etc. This is all the same whether male or female when in a mixed group.

 

It is MORE than "just friends" to need to approach the father for more time to get to know the opposite sex in a way you wouldn't do with a same sex friend. It may not be MUCH more but there is a pressure, an expectation, a hope, a consideration, a "looking."

 

And for a kid that isn't ready to take it to whatever next steps, *I* think it's too much. Of course, someone is welcome to disagree with me.

 

In your last post, I was thinking, "yeah, that's it." Instead of a long "let's look at this a little" then long "courtship," I prefer the long "focus on getting yourself together" then however long the geting to know each other and then courtship is after both parties are ready for whatever happens. It seems safer to me- safer in all ways.

 

Not to mention, it just makes more sense to me. "my way" a kid, young man, is focusing on taking care of his business knowing he'll have plenty of opportunity later to find a lady friend and court. The other way, the kid is taking time and effort out of working on himself to look at this girl, consider her for something WAY down the line.

 

Again though, anyone is welcome to disagree. But a young man coming to us would be encouraged to get his life in order and come back if he'd like to pursue an interest. And our own young man will be encouraged by us to get his life in order before approaching a young lady's father.

[Scarlett]

Not to mention, it just makes more sense to me. "my way" a kid, young man, is focusing on taking care of his business knowing he'll have plenty of opportunity later to find a lady friend and court. The other way, the kid is taking time and effort out of working on himself to look at this girl, consider her for something WAY down the line.

 

Right.....and this is the time period where kids (working towad maturity and adulthood) are encouraged to 'look away'. I tell ds9 all the time he needs to be a position to support a family before he begins the search for a wife.

[Peek a Boo]

I agree too, BUT....

 

I think the timing is inappropriate. Our last circuit overseer (think Paul in the Greek Scriptures) encouraged young men and women to "look away." It is best for them to be where they need to be BEFORE even LOOKING more intently.

 

If he's going to go to college and get a job still, there are YEARS of maturing they will both do. They quite possibly won't be even kinda the same people after 4 years!

 

...... Basically, I think the focus should be on making himself a desirable and proper husband-to-be BEFORE pursuing a relationship that may lead into him being a husband one day. And really, it doesn't necessarily take any more time to do it in that order. If he isn't going to be married for several years either way, why not focus on his own journey so he can be what he'll need to be when the time comes?

 

i generally agree with this. Since I don't know anything about where her ds is in his plan for life, i simply shared what the general steps would be :)

 

I do think the friendship step can be taken [mostly because regardless of sex, some people are more fun to be friends with than others, lol] , as long as you are looking at the person as a sister/brother in Christ, not as a potential mate ;) My biggest point was that even friendships should be pursued w/ parental oversight.

[Impish]

I seriously need to find people in my area that have this view. I think its wonderful, and would love to learn more about it.

 

Sorry for the intrusion, I know you only wanted commentary from ppl that could be helpful, but instead, I'm asking for your help, lol!

[Nakia]

No experience, but I just wanted to say that your son sounds like an awesome young man, Dawn. :001_smile:

[Heather in Neverland]

We are not there yet but plan to follow a courtship model as well. I just want to say how much it warms my heart to read about young men like this who are being raised not to objectify women, whose only concern in their teens years is not "getting in some girl's pants". :glare: After many years of teaching high school I started to wonder if it is even possible in this society to raise a son with such high morals. It makes me happy to see others doing this so I know we have hope!

[Nestof3]

Thanks all.

 

The main reason why uor son wanted to talk to her dad was because we really have to go out of our way to have much interaction with them since they live an hour away. Yes, they do have interaction time at the meeting, but typically, believe it or not, the young ladies tend to chat among themselves, and the young men likewise. I, even after going to the house church for several years, feel like I hardly know some of the moms because it is just a sort of hectic environment -- lots of babies, lots of little ones to help, cleaning up to do after the meals and so forth.

 

The several families at the meeting are all of a courtship sort of mindset, but we are all new to this, and frankly learning together.

 

There is also a young adult get together once a month at one of the families where the 13 year olds and up meet to have fun without the responsibility of helping with the little ones.

 

He felt it would be honorable to let her dad know that he would like more opportunities to get to know her more -- in a family setting or with several siblings together.

 

So, he and my husband talked with her dad today. He essentially said that he would like to get to know her better. He said he is in no position to offer a courtship, but wanted him to know in case there was something he would absolutely not approve of in him AND so that both families would perhaps make it more of a point to spend time together. Her dad seemed very relaxed and accepting of this conversation, and all is well.

 

Oh, and thank you for the kind comments about him as well. He was one of the men to bring teaching in the meeting today, and I started to cry just looking up there at this boy become man wondering where all the time went. He spoke on the difference between a believer and a disciple. He said a poster he had in his room that we had given him at Christmas (the famous Iwo Jima poster) reminded him of the difference. The poster reads: "All gave some, some gave all."

 

He said to him, a believer is one who gives some, but when you truly become a disciple, you are willing to give all. He had several scriptures as well about being willing to be a disciple.

Edited April 12, 2009 by nestof3

[Amber in AUS]

Dawn - That is wonderful!!

 

Pamela - Thankyou for taking the time to respond.

[Storm Bay]

Thanks all.

 

 

So, he and my husband talked with her dad today. He essentially said that he would like to get to know her better. He said he is in no position to offer a courtship, but wanted him to know in case there was something he would absolutely not approve of in him AND so that both families would perhaps make it more of a point to spend time together. Her dad seemed very relaxed and accepting of this conversation, and all is well.

.

 

 

I think that this is great. There is no one right time to get to know someone, and the fact that your ds has handled this so maturely is wonderful. I want my dc to follow the courtship model and have told them that, but dh still needs to know more about it. Are there any good books on this? Not overly conservative, but not liberal, either.

[MJN]

that you have a son who is obviously seeking the Lord, is mature, has goals set for his future and is courtship minded. This encourages me as in our area, there are very few young men that are like your son. I've told my dh that we're going to have to pray in husbands for our daughters as the pickings are slim. I know God is in control of all of this and He has all the details worked out. Can't wait to see how He works it all out though. :-) Congrats on raising such a fine, young man!

[Joanne]

Dawn,

 

I do not encourage courtship and indeed, don't really believe in it.

 

Keep reading anyway, k?.......

 

Your son strikes me as a fantastic young man! :001_smile:

 

Well wishes to your home church congregation. The idea of home church makes so much sense to me. :)

[Peek a Boo]

Dawn,

 

I do not encourage courtship and indeed, don't really believe in it.

 

Keep reading anyway, k?.......

 

Your son strikes me as a fantastic young man! :001_smile:

 

Well wishes to your home church congregation. The idea of home church makes so much sense to me. :)

 

LOL! i thought i was gonna hafta punch ya in the nose there for a sec ;)

 

WTM Smackdown :lol:

 

hope y'all are doing better!

[dangermom]

Your son does sound like a wonderful young man, and it seems to me that he's going about this in the right way.

 

I am not very familiar with the whole courtship model, but my church does teach chastity and friendship, etc. before marriage and is somewhat similar. I have a similar question to Eliana. Is there some specific reason that a guy should be finished with school and established in a career before he gets married?

 

(In our church they teach that career aspirations should not be a cause of delaying marriage and family; that is, a couple might marry while still in college and experience some beneficial struggles and grow together. It's not at all uncommon for a couple to marry at ~21 and have a child or two before finishing all of school, especially if a guy is going to be a doctor or something.)

 

My husband and I were (barely) 22 when we got married, and he still had a year and a half of school to go. Then he put me through grad school. I'm wondering if such an arrangement would be frowned upon in courtship circles, although we liked it very much. :001_smile:

[JenniferB]

Dawn,

 

I don't have personal experience, as my children are still young, but I heard a personal testimony last year of a couple who did court, and it was a beautiful story. I think it's worth mentioning. Here is how it worked out for them. The young man who wanted to court with the young lady first approached the young lady's father to ask permission to court her. The father agreed to meet together with the young man to discuss the issue. Without the young lady's knowledge they met together for several months so the father could be sure that the young man would be a good match for his daughter. The father questioned the young man on many topics during their meetings. In this case, the father did think they would make a good match, so the mother and father of the young lady told her that she had a young man's interest, and they gave her as much information as they could about the young man that the father learned in their meetings. The young lady was given ample time to think about and pray about the decision, and when she was ready she told her parents that she did want to take the courtship seriously and take the next step. The next step was the actual courtship, which was kind of like dating, but a little different, because they were getting to know each other for the purpose of marriage. So, they met together for meals and outings and discussed their thoughts on various subjects that would pertain to their future marriage. They discussed finances, division of labor, the authority structure of the home, children, God, church, and their individual views on many various topics that were close to their hearts. They were very compatible and they ended up marrying.

 

A couple of things stuck with me as I remember this testimony. One thing was that the father was very protective of his daughter, and he took the pre courtship experience very seriously. The other thing I remember was that the daughter whole heartedly trusted her father, and she also submitted herself willingly to her father's judgment in this matter. Instead of dating the boys that approached her, she directed them to her father, and he took care of the pre-screening process. She said she felt very protected and comfortable with this process because she didn't feel "out there" and exposed to the world without any protection.

 

Anyway, I hope this helps you. If not, I think it's a beautiful story anyway. :D

[Heather in Neverland]

Dawn,

 

I don't have personal experience, as my children are still young, but I heard a personal testimony last year of a couple who did court, and it was a beautiful story. I think it's worth mentioning. Here is how it worked out for them. The young man who wanted to court with the young lady first approached the young lady's father to ask permission to court her. The father agreed to meet together with the young man to discuss the issue. Without the young lady's knowledge they met together for several months so the father could be sure that the young man would be a good match for his daughter. The father questioned the young man on many topics during their meetings. In this case, the father did think they would make a good match, so the mother and father of the young lady told her that she had a young man's interest, and they gave her as much information as they could about the young man that the father learned in their meetings. The young lady was given ample time to think about and pray about the decision, and when she was ready she told her parents that she did want to take the courtship seriously and take the next step. The next step was the actual courtship, which was kind of like dating, but a little different, because they were getting to know each other for the purpose of marriage. So, they met together for meals and outings and discussed their thoughts on various subjects that would pertain to their future marriage. They discussed finances, division of labor, the authority structure of the home, children, God, church, and their individual views on many various topics that were close to their hearts. They were very compatible and they ended up marrying.

 

A couple of things stuck with me as I remember this testimony. One thing was that the father was very protective of his daughter, and he took the pre courtship experience very seriously. The other thing I remember was that the daughter whole heartedly trusted her father, and she also submitted herself willingly to her father's judgment in this matter. Instead of dating the boys that approached her, she directed them to her father, and he took care of the pre-screening process. She said she felt very protected and comfortable with this process because she didn't feel "out there" and exposed to the world without any protection.

 

Anyway, I hope this helps you. If not, I think it's a beautiful story anyway. :D

 

That is a GREAT story. I wish my father would have done the same. :glare:

[Storm Bay]

Dawn,

 

I don't have personal experience, as my children are still young, but I heard a personal testimony last year of a couple who did court, and it was a beautiful story. A couple of things stuck with me as I remember this testimony. One thing was that the father was very protective of his daughter, and he took the pre courtship experience very seriously. The other thing I remember was that the daughter whole heartedly trusted her father, and she also submitted herself willingly to her father's judgment in this matter. Instead of dating the boys that approached her, she directed them to her father, and he took care of the pre-screening process. She said she felt very protected and comfortable with this process because she didn't feel "out there" and exposed to the world without any protection.

 

Anyway, I hope this helps you. If not, I think it's a beautiful story anyway. :D

 

This is a lovely story, and I'm for courtship, although dh needs to read more about it first. However, I think that ultimately it will be up to our dd's and we see courtship as not just pertaining to marriage, but a way to get to know boys without that one on one eomtional and s*xual pressure of dating, particularly in high school (or even group dating with all of its problems--perhaps that would be pre-courtship or something!)

 

I think that having the father have so much oversight works well with an insightful father; my dad was clueless as to who would make the best match for me. Not that my dad is an idiot, but he really doesn't have the skill set necessary for this. If someone approached us this way (not likely in our homechurch set up as our church doesn't teach courtship; this is a personal decision I'm working on and need to discuss more with dh) my dh would have to work hand in hand with me because as wonderful and loving as he is, I know my dds better when it comes to these things. Of course, we're not strictly conservative Christians as most people think of it, although we're not liberal Christians, either.

[JenniferB]

I agree too, BUT....

 

I think the timing is inappropriate. Our last circuit overseer (think Paul in the Greek Scriptures) encouraged young men and women to "look away." It is best for them to be where they need to be BEFORE even LOOKING more intently.

 

If he's going to go to college and get a job still, there are YEARS of maturing they will both do. They quite possibly won't be even kinda the same people after 4 years!

 

For us? If a young man approached my hubby (and I sure hope he would!), he would be given scriptural counsel about waiting, getting his life in order, etc. It would be VERY kindly done and the invitation would be held out to him to come ask when he's ready. But very few 18yos are ready in ANY sense (I know, I know; some people do it and do it well).

 

But it isn't about AGE. It's about where they are in LIFE. Come to us when you're ready for whatever may happen (falling in love, marriage, children, etc). Being a good guy is a great start, but I want to see you able to take care of my daughter in ALL ways. A kid coming to me is cute and all, but I am not okaying courting, at any level, to a kid. Now, if he were whatever age, had been involved in ministry works for years, was reaching out for greater responsibility, had a job that would pay the bills, etc? That would be completely different. It's the difference between a kid and a man. And the difference between permission and not.

 

In the meantime, keep the status quo. They can chat, things will come out over time, they can get to know each other at armslength, ya know what I mean? And when he's ready to be a man spiritually, financially, emotionally, mentally, etc, then he can approach the father for permission to step it up.

 

I'm hoping I'm making any sense. Basically, I think the focus should be on making himself a desirable and proper husband-to-be BEFORE pursuing a relationship that may lead into him being a husband one day. And really, it doesn't necessarily take any more time to do it in that order. If he isn't going to be married for several years either way, why not focus on his own journey so he can be what he'll need to be when the time comes?

 

Pamela, good points here. The couple I mentioned in my previous reply had more life experience. The young man was already established with a career, and the young lady was finished with her education as well, and she was volunteering and working, but still living at home. The young man was living on his own before it all started.

[Chelle in MO]

That is a GREAT story. I wish my father would have done the same. :glare:

If only! I always read stories like the one JenniferB told so wistfully...

 

Chelle

[Rosie_0801]

I only wish we had that kind of ability to influence our children's future partners! We don't though, so we'll just have to do our best to prep our own kids. We bought this when our daughter was born, it's lovely: http://www.amazon.com/Three-Weavers-Rare-Collectors/dp/1584740213

 

Rosie

[Nestof3]

Dawn,

 

I do not encourage courtship and indeed, don't really believe in it.

 

Keep reading anyway, k?.......

 

Your son strikes me as a fantastic young man! :001_smile:

 

Well wishes to your home church congregation. The idea of home church makes so much sense to me. :)

 

Thank you, Joanne. It means a lot to me that you would say so.

[Nestof3]

Your son does sound like a wonderful young man, and it seems to me that he's going about this in the right way.

 

I am not very familiar with the whole courtship model, but my church does teach chastity and friendship, etc. before marriage and is somewhat similar. I have a similar question to Eliana. Is there some specific reason that a guy should be finished with school and established in a career before he gets married?

 

 

 

I don't really think there is an absolute right way to do it. I cannot even say for sure that my son will definitely wait until he is hired. Right now, he is in his first year of college.

 

These are ideas he has based on things he's read and examples he's learned of. He has said that he thinks it would be great to hold off on buying a house until he is married because he thinks his wife would love to help pick it out. I think part of the waiting until he has finished college is so that he is not distracted, and I think part of it is that he would like to prove that he can provide for a woman.

 

I don't think there are any hard and fast rules, and we surely haven't had much "real-life" experience with it.

[SnowWhite]

Your son does sound like a wonderful young man, and it seems to me that he's going about this in the right way.

 

I am not very familiar with the whole courtship model, but my church does teach chastity and friendship, etc. before marriage and is somewhat similar. I have a similar question to Eliana. Is there some specific reason that a guy should be finished with school and established in a career before he gets married?

 

(In our church they teach that career aspirations should not be a cause of delaying marriage and family; that is, a couple might marry while still in college and experience some beneficial struggles and grow together. It's not at all uncommon for a couple to marry at ~21 and have a child or two before finishing all of school, especially if a guy is going to be a doctor or something.)

 

My husband and I were (barely) 22 when we got married, and he still had a year and a half of school to go. Then he put me through grad school. I'm wondering if such an arrangement would be frowned upon in courtship circles, although we liked it very much. :001_smile:

 

ITA with this above poster. While I'm uninformed about some of the courtship procedures you are discussing, we are very much about chastity before marriage and not "dating around." My dh was nearly 20 and I was nearly 25 when we married. We helped each other through college. At the time we married, dh was in a good job, as was I, and I was also in college. I told dh I was willing to "give up" college in favor of homemaking, but his belief in the wisdom of finishing my course kept me in college. I supported him in deciding to do a two-year college course, which was his foot in the door for what has become a very lucrative and high level executive position. Both of us would have been less successful in college and finances had we not pooled our resources. (We come from very blue collar backgrounds where we of necessity had to pay our own ways even living at home).

[mama2cntrykids]

Oh, and thank you for the kind comments about him as well. He was one of the men to bring teaching in the meeting today, and I started to cry just looking up there at this boy become man wondering where all the time went. He spoke on the difference between a believer and a disciple. He said a poster he had in his room that we had given him at Christmas (the famous Iwo Jima poster) reminded him of the difference. The poster reads: "All gave some, some gave all."

 

He said to him, a believer is one who gives some, but when you truly become a disciple, you are willing to give all. He had several scriptures as well about being willing to be a disciple.

 

Wow Dawn. That brought tears to my eyes and made my heart tug! How very sweet your young man is!

[dangermom]

ITA with this above poster. While I'm uninformed about some of the courtship procedures you are discussing, we are very much about chastity before marriage and not "dating around." My dh was nearly 20 and I was nearly 25 when we married. We helped each other through college. At the time we married, dh was in a good job, as was I, and I was also in college. I told dh I was willing to "give up" college in favor of homemaking, but his belief in the wisdom of finishing my course kept me in college. I supported him in deciding to do a two-year college course, which was his foot in the door for what has become a very lucrative and high level executive position. Both of us would have been less successful in college and finances had we not pooled our resources. (We come from very blue collar backgrounds where we of necessity had to pay our own ways even living at home).

Our experience was much like yours. My husband put me through grad school, and it was wonderful being married at the same time; he supported me a lot and when I was in a studying crunch, there was still someone to do the dishes! He was still in school when we married and in a lot of ways it made life easier--no roommate hassles, support at home, pooling of resources, etc. (Also he spent a lot less time walking back and forth between our respective apartments!)

 

This isn't meant to be a critique or anything Nest, just my own experience, but I do think it's worth mentioning that marriage can help in school and actually cut down on distractions. :001_smile:

[Nestof3]

Our experience was much like yours. My husband put me through grad school, and it was wonderful being married at the same time; he supported me a lot and when I was in a studying crunch, there was still someone to do the dishes! He was still in school when we married and in a lot of ways it made life easier--no roommate hassles, support at home, pooling of resources, etc. (Also he spent a lot less time walking back and forth between our respective apartments!)

 

This isn't meant to be a critique or anything Nest, just my own experience, but I do think it's worth mentioning that marriage can help in school and actually cut down on distractions. :001_smile:

 

Thanks for the input! I agree that there is no absolute right way to do this. And, then there's always the "better to marry than to burn." :lol:

 

I love hearing all of the different experiences. Mine definitely isn't the norm either, as I was coming home from work and picking up Aaron from the after school program when we were dating. I cannot imagine ladies sitting around thinking up that situation when dreaming of Mr. Right. ;)

[Melissa in Australia]

I was brought up with courtship principal. I was 18 when I got marries. my husband was 33. we had very strict chaperoning at all times. I remember getting into trouble with my parents for playing footsies under the table at dinner!. we knew each other fro about 1 year, with my then future husband coming around for dinner every week. our " official" courtship/ engagement went for about 4 months. My mum couldn't stand chaperoning any more than that and advised us to get married quick. She said if you have made up your mind to get married and are really sure than get married. it will be less stressful on everyone. Just my personal experience.