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Does anyone know if Susan plans on continuing with more of the HS series? I noticed that the only one available ends with the fall of Rome? When will others in the series be ready, if there are going to be more? Also I glanced over the sample chapters, but didn't see any lists of books to go along with the chapters. Does anyone have any input on how this program works or how other books are added in to this? TIA

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like SOTW, but series of books, Vol 1, The History of the Ancient World is the only one out yet. She is working on Vol 2. She is using this one for her high schooler, I believe, and it can be used for that age, but not solely for high school.

 

Vol 1 is excellent, by the way. You can look on her blog to find out more about what stage Vol 2 is in/the publication date.

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I'm reading Volume 1 right now....and learning a lot. :D It's great. I think there are at least a few people here using it for high school - someone was even putting together some test questions to go with the book a while back. If you do a search you should be able to find some posts.

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I wouldn't use it unless she's learned an order of magnitude more about history than when she wrote her STOW. SOTW is okay for kids, but with historical errors (including glaring ones) so very frequent, I wouldn't use a book by the same author for later in school.

 

You average high school textbook, though is probably worse.

 

I'd use a text intended for college freshmen, written by actual history professors who at least have a lot of research in that general time period, if not specialist on everything they cover.

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I wouldn't use it unless she's learned an order of magnitude more about history than when she wrote her STOW. SOTW is okay for kids, but with historical errors (including glaring ones) so very frequent, I wouldn't use a book by the same author for later in school.

 

You average high school textbook, though is probably worse.

 

I'd use a text intended for college freshmen, written by actual history professors who at least have a lot of research in that general time period, if not specialist on everything they cover.

 

Obviously, you haven't read the book.

 

Just had to laugh as last night I read a footnote in HOAW which Susan ended by saying (and I *loosely* quote): "I'm including this here so that I don't get (even more) letters telling me I obviously haven't read my Bible."

 

HA!

 

I admit I was one of the people who thought SWB was a bit wack-o when she said Abram was a moon-god worshipper, and then - there it was plain as day as I was reading my Bible one day. Oops!

 

Keep up the good work, SWB!!!

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I wouldn't use it unless she's learned an order of magnitude more about history than when she wrote her STOW. SOTW is okay for kids, but with historical errors (including glaring ones) so very frequent, I wouldn't use a book by the same author for later in school.

 

You average high school textbook, though is probably worse.

 

I'd use a text intended for college freshmen, written by actual history professors who at least have a lot of research in that general time period, if not specialist on everything they cover.

 

:001_huh: Oh dear! I hope you aren't too embarrassed to learn that said author provides these very boards.

 

Glaring indeed. :rolleyes:

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I wouldn't use it unless she's learned an order of magnitude more about history than when she wrote her STOW. SOTW is okay for kids, but with historical errors (including glaring ones) so very frequent, I wouldn't use a book by the same author for later in school.

 

You average high school textbook, though is probably worse.

 

I'd use a text intended for college freshmen, written by actual history professors who at least have a lot of research in that general time period, if not specialist on everything they cover.

 

Have you read it? The breadth and depth of it is so much much greater than SOTW, which was written for children after all.

 

Have you read The Well Trained Mind yet, for that matter? SOTW is not meant to be the final word on history, it is meant as an introduction for children. I would be very hesitant to criticize the author of The Well Trained Mind and The Well Educated Mind based on a series that she deliberately wrote to be understood by less mature minds. I think she did an amazing job of making history readable for young children.

 

I am very comfortable with her knowledge of the magnitude of history, her educational background and her research.

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I have read volume 1. I did not get to use it with my current highschooler but I plan to use it with the next one coming up.

 

I try not to leave little nagging messages to SWB about having volumes 2-4 ready in time for Gabriel, but it's so hard to stop myself. I also try not to beg for a teacher's manual with quizzes and tests and all matter of additional material.

 

I would gladly wash SWB's dishes so she can work on high school books!!!:lol:

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I would gladly wash SWB's dishes so she can work on high school books!!!:lol:

 

:auto: GREAT IDEA- I'll do LAUNDRY!

My ds read HOAW this year, and we have followed with Spielvogel which he is not thrilled with. HE keeps asking when SWB will be finished with vol 2!!!!

 

Anybody else wanna help;)

SusanAR

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I wouldn't use it unless she's learned an order of magnitude more about history than when she wrote her STOW. SOTW is okay for kids, but with historical errors (including glaring ones) so very frequent, I wouldn't use a book by the same author for later in school.

 

 

Wow Reya, that is pretty harsh, especially since Susan graciously pays for these boards. I have read all 4 volumes of SOTW and the first volume of HOAW and they are wonderful texts! I credit the SOTW series with giving my kids a love of history. And, they do LOVE history! And, HOAW is a thorough history that is very accessible and easy to understand. Granted, I don't know an order of magnitude more about history than Susan does, so there may be a few errors. Or, they may just be differences in interpretation of history. I would venture to say that every history book has this.

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I have read volume 1. I did not get to use it with my current highschooler but I plan to use it with the next one coming up.

 

I try not to leave little nagging messages to SWB about having volumes 2-4 ready in time for Gabriel, but it's so hard to stop myself. I also try not to beg for a teacher's manual with quizzes and tests and all matter of additional material.

 

I would gladly wash SWB's dishes so she can work on high school books!!!:lol:

 

I'll do her laundry!

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Wow Reya, that is pretty harsh, especially since Susan graciously pays for these boards. I have read all 4 volumes of SOTW and the first volume of HOAW and they are wonderful texts! I credit the SOTW series with giving my kids a love of history. And, they do LOVE history! And, HOAW is a thorough history that is very accessible and easy to understand. Granted, I don't know an order of magnitude more about history than Susan does, so there may be a few errors. Or, they may just be differences in interpretation of history. I would venture to say that every history book has this.

 

To be fair, if Susan's work is substandard, we would not be serving our commitment to educational excellence to pretend otherwise, even on her board.

 

That said, I've homeschooled two children through elementary school and into middle school, and am currently taking two more through elementary school, and find SOTW to be excellent for that age group. Which is how it was intended.

 

Many classical educators start off full of fire. We want excellence. And we want it now! I've seen it all on these boards, all the moms who use three history programs at once so that their kids don't have any gaps, the ones who worry that SOTW will leave the children stunted, with an unbalanced or erroneous view of history.

 

The truth of the matter is, in elementary school, stories about history serve the child well. There is *plenty of time,* and good reason, to hold off on the depth and stringent accuracy (as far as you can do that, in history) for later.

 

Nor is high school the final word on history studies. Learning is for a lifetime. I expect my children to have an excellent grasp of the sweep of history before they leave my house; however, I cannot, in 12 short years, teach it all. Nor do I have to.

 

Sadly, my degree is only in English, not in history. Perhaps that makes me unqualified to judge. On second thought ... no, it does not. My own reading and self-education in history qualifies me to judge.

 

Back to the OP - I've read HOAW. It's very readable and interesting. I have not yet decided if we're going to use it, but it would be an excellent addition to WTM-style high school history.

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I wouldn't use it unless she's learned an order of magnitude more about history than when she wrote her STOW. SOTW is okay for kids, but with historical errors (including glaring ones) so very frequent, I wouldn't use a book by the same author for later in school.

 

You average high school textbook, though is probably worse.

 

I'd use a text intended for college freshmen, written by actual history professors who at least have a lot of research in that general time period, if not specialist on everything they cover.

 

:001_huh:

 

As a former historian-in-training, I'm not that big a fan of "actual history professors". David McCullough is a wonderfully accessible historian and yet opted to forgo the academic hazing process that is the PhD. Sometimes a generalist or someone not boxed into a micro-specialty which is required for publication in history has a better perspective on the flow of history. Its not like most high school students are going to read books on each minutia of a historical period. Textbooks in general with bits and pieces contributed by "experts" lose that narrative flow that makes history engaging. Monographs are a much better way to delve into a period, but again, we're not talking about grad. students at this point.

 

I find your comments incredibly rude though, even if you'd read the book and felt it wasn't a good choice for high school, there are certainly more diplomatic ways of making your point.

Edited by Jami
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:auto: GREAT IDEA- I'll do LAUNDRY!

My ds read HOAW this year, and we have followed with Spielvogel which he is not thrilled with. HE keeps asking when SWB will be finished with vol 2!!!!

 

Anybody else wanna help;)

SusanAR

 

 

Sign me up... I bet even DH would help!

 

I was not a history lover, but HOAW riveted me. DH majored in history, and HE loved the book and is just as excited for the next one too. He was very geeked up that a history book referenced The Borg. :lol:

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I wouldn't use it unless she's learned an order of magnitude more about history than when she wrote her STOW. SOTW is okay for kids, but with historical errors (including glaring ones) so very frequent, I wouldn't use a book by the same author for later in school.

 

You average high school textbook, though is probably worse.

 

I'd use a text intended for college freshmen, written by actual history professors who at least have a lot of research in that general time period, if not specialist on everything they cover.

 

Boy, that's not too rude. You should have to eat your dinner in the bathroom.

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I wouldn't use it unless she's learned an order of magnitude more about history than when she wrote her STOW. SOTW is okay for kids, but with historical errors (including glaring ones) so very frequent, I wouldn't use a book by the same author for later in school.

 

 

 

Reya, Reya, Reya...

 

Diplomacy is not your strong suit, is it? Perhaps with age you will hone this skill.

 

Oh my.

 

Jane

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I'd use a text intended for college freshmen, written by actual history professors who at least have a lot of research in that general time period, if not specialist on everything they cover.

 

Boy, what pipedream textbook would that be? OK, my apologies. That was pretty harsh. I looked at all the World History textbooks the profs at my ds' univ had chosen for their courses one afternoon this past summer as I waited for something he was doing on campus. Talk about unappealing, committee-speak, boredom!! They made Spielvogel look really good I tell ya! I was pretty disillusioned, such that, combined with the lack of any of the good profs teaching the following semester, he took the two government core courses this year instead of fulfilling the freshman history ones. We're hoping next year might be better.

 

ETA: In all fairness (I mean me being open-minded to your thoughts), Reya, did you have one in mind?? It would be instructive, since ds still has to take two history courses. :)

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You know, I wouldn't say I'm the best historian. What I'd like is for someone who knows what errors are there would list them. That way I'd know if it's subjective or if they are true errors.

My daughter just loves listening to SOTW III and for Ancient History, we're listening to SOTW I. She basically memorized the cds and I expect that she'll memorized SOTW I and I believe that her grasp of history will be pretty good if she's knowing the book.

I suppose that all people will have some mistakes in their understanding of some events of history....

BUT, I feel like it's made history interesting and pleasant for her!

Thanks Susan and Jim! (I'm sure glad I don't have to read them out loud...over and over!

Carrie:-)

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actual talents to offer Susan and her family, but I bet I could think something up.

 

I'll start with a cheer.

 

Go, Susan, Go!

I'm gonna need Book 2!

Soon!

 

Okay. Lame. But perhaps those getting more than 5 hours of sleep/night could work on better cheers? Come on. Rhyme and meter are of utmost importance. Think of it as the poor man's haiku. Ready... set... GO!

 

Susan. Thank you very much for your work.

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Does anyone know if Susan plans on continuing with more of the HS series? I noticed that the only one available ends with the fall of Rome? When will others in the series be ready, if there are going to be more? Also I glanced over the sample chapters, but didn't see any lists of books to go along with the chapters. Does anyone have any input on how this program works or how other books are added in to this? TIA

 

Like other said, she's working on the series, and I'm another one who can't wait to read all of them. Her SOTW series has been the thing to draw me into learning about history. So, I expect the same thing to happen more deeply with her high school/adult series.

 

I would imagine you could look through the chapters you would have your child read, and look for same-topic books in the library to supplement it with extra reading. (I don't have kids in high school yet, but I'm guessing this is one way way you could do it) The book lists in WTM high school section might be useful, too.

 

I wouldn't use it unless she's learned an order of magnitude more about history than when she wrote her STOW. SOTW is okay for kids, but with historical errors (including glaring ones) so very frequent, I wouldn't use a book by the same author for later in school.

 

I think your comments around the boards and on your profile these days are just over the top. My impression of SWB here is that she is open to people's opinions of her works, but this just seems way too sarcastic and ungracious to write on her own board that she pays for.

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Wowza... I dont even want to touch on Reyas post. It was waay over the top. We are all entitled to our opinions, but remember SWB is a person with feelings. I personally feel an apology is in order.

 

I love SOTW and had it not been for this series I myself still would not appreciate history. My kids love history and I credit to the SOTW books and CD's. Thank you SWB!

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Wowza... I dont even want to touch on Reyas post. It was waay over the top. We are all entitled to our opinions, but remember SWB is a person with feelings. I personally feel an apology is in order.

 

I love SOTW and had it not been for this series I myself still would not appreciate history. My kids love history and I credit to the SOTW books and CD's. Thank you SWB!

 

:iagree: AND I hope that she has a "upper level" book for Volume II before we get back there. We're doing Ancient ,next year, so she's got a year:-) I can't wait to read the Ancient one for olders:-)

 

Carrie:-)

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Does anyone know if Susan plans on continuing with more of the HS series? I noticed that the only one available ends with the fall of Rome? When will others in the series be ready, if there are going to be more? Also I glanced over the sample chapters, but didn't see any lists of books to go along with the chapters. Does anyone have any input on how this program works or how other books are added in to this? TIA

 

I'm not sure what you mean by other books. Do you mean literature, or do you mean other history books?

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I would rather teach my young children stories, myths, folk tales, and heros. I don't want accurate history, but inspiring history. When they become cynical teenagers they can study the varying views and versions of history. I see no need to force them to see everything grey until they need to. I think it is hard to grow into a strong, good person unless you have a few visions of shining white heros and heroines to keep you trying. Besides, it is rather hard to say with absolute certainty what happened long ago.

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Wow Reya, that is pretty harsh, especially since Susan graciously pays for these boards.

 

Reya's comments are not surprising...she's been touting herself as the source of all knowledge on these boards at least since 2007. It's not surprising that she now considers herself superior to SWB; not only is Reya the most intelligent woman, but her children are superior to all others, too. By Reya's own admission, her 4-month old is deliberately seeking out an alphabet toy and consciously using it (and consistently says the same sound for "h"...yep 4 months old. Wow.).

 

Do some searches...you'll get the picture. Many of us remember her from her "amusing" posts in years past, and we've been chuckling over her new posts. Nothing new under the sun...

 

Ria

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Reya's comments are not surprising...she's been touting herself as the source of all knowledge on these boards at least since 2007. It's not surprising that she now considers herself superior to SWB; not only is Reya the most intelligent woman, but her children are superior to all others, too. By Reya's own admission, her 4-month old is deliberately seeking out an alphabet toy and consciously using it (and consistently says the same sound for "h"...yep 4 months old. Wow.).

 

Do some searches...you'll get the picture. Many of us remember her from her "amusing" posts in years past, and we've been chuckling over her new posts. Nothing new under the sun...

 

Ria

 

The question that began this thread came from a first time poster. Your comments here may help her see that we are not (for the most part) an arrogant or contentious bunch on this board.

 

I do want to encourage Susan K, the OP, to continue to hang out with us over here!

 

Warm regards to my fellow high school parents,

Jane

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The question that began this thread came from a first time poster. Your comments here may help her see that we are not (for the most part) an arrogant or contentious bunch on this board.

 

I do want to encourage Susan K, the OP, to continue to hang out with us over here!

 

Warm regards to my fellow high school parents,

Jane

 

Oh, goodness, yes. We're usually very helpful. Honest.

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I do want to encourage Susan K, the OP, to continue to hang out with us over here!

 

Ditto! Those high school Moms are awesome!! And there isn't usually controversy on the high school board. Just lots and lots of help.

 

In re-reading my post I want to make it clear that I do *not* think Susan's work is sub-standard.

 

It was very clear, don't worry!:D

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You know, there's a limit to how much non-specific, mean-spirited bashing with no details to back it up that I'm willing to take.

 

Reya: If you've checked all of the footnotes in The History of the Ancient World and find them to be inaccurate, fine. Otherwise, knock it off.

 

SWB

 

Where's the standing ovation?

 

I'm reading HOTAW and loving it.:) I'm a little too late for my current high schooler but it may be where I go with my next one.

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You know, there's a limit to how much non-specific, mean-spirited bashing with no details to back it up that I'm willing to take.

 

Reya: If you've checked all of the footnotes in The History of the Ancient World and find them to be inaccurate, fine. Otherwise, knock it off.

 

SWB

 

Since my dad writes books, I'm pretty sure that all books can have a mistake here or there, but also that most books have friends pre-reading them....editors that check out facts. I'm wondering if the "errors" that Reya/people see are just a difference of opinion. If there are so many "errors" then where are they listed?

 

:grouphug: I've never heard of an author so loved as SWB...... Can we hug you into more of your books for upper levels for SOTW 2-4??

Please :bigear:

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:grouphug: I've never heard of an author so loved as SWB...... Can we hug you into more of your books for upper levels for SOTW 2-4??

Please :bigear:

 

And don't forget that several of us will be dropping in on you to do your laundry, wash your dishes, sweep your floors. Pretty much anything so you can write in peace.

 

Not that we are trying to rush you or anything. :tongue_smilie:

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I'd use a text intended for college freshmen.

 

Reya,

 

Put very gently, I think perhaps your experience and children are so very different from many others' that you'll want to consider using Susan's high school texts for them now. Best of luck keeping those punkins busy -- sounds like you'll have less than the usual eighteen years to enjoy them being at home and just doing family kinds of things.

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Where's the standing ovation?

 

:hurray::hurray::hurray::hurray::hurray:

 

We cannot tell you how much we appreciate all your work, Susan. I am not overstating this: your efforts to inform, guide and challenge us with regard to our next generation has changed the landscape of America and its future leadership. Thank you.

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actual talents to offer Susan and her family, but I bet I could think something up.

 

I'll start with a cheer.

 

Go, Susan, Go!

I'm gonna need Book 2!

Soon!

 

Okay. Lame. But perhaps those getting more than 5 hours of sleep/night could work on better cheers? Come on. Rhyme and meter are of utmost importance. Think of it as the poor man's haiku. Ready... set... GO!

 

Susan. Thank you very much for your work.

 

I think you have an order of magnitude more cheering talent than I do! ;)

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I wouldn't use it unless she's learned an order of magnitude more about history than when she wrote her STOW. SOTW is okay for kids, but with historical errors (including glaring ones) so very frequent, I wouldn't use a book by the same author for later in school.

 

You average high school textbook, though is probably worse.

 

I'd use a text intended for college freshmen, written by actual history professors who at least have a lot of research in that general time period, if not specialist on everything they cover.

 

Coming late to this conversation...

 

I'm astounded at what I'm reading here.

 

Ds just interviewed w/ a principal at a local private high school. When asked what his favor subject is, my ds said history. I immediately thought of SWB and SOTW -- and how much my older kids love these books and have found a new passion for history.

 

HOAW is fantastic. I'm not a historian and wouldn't know fact from fiction in many cases. But I do trust Susan's integrity and her commitment to excellence. Not to mention, Norton wouldn't let those errors (that you suggest) get through.

 

'Nuff said...

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Does anyone know if Susan plans on continuing with more of the HS series? I noticed that the only one available ends with the fall of Rome? When will others in the series be ready, if there are going to be more? Also I glanced over the sample chapters, but didn't see any lists of books to go along with the chapters. Does anyone have any input on how this program works or how other books are added in to this? TIA

 

Susan, here's my plan so far. I have a bright, reluctant writer (read: freezes up when asked to think beyond baby steps), who will be roughly a (young)ninth grader this fall. He's going to read about a chapter a week, along with selections from TWTM reading lists. He'll continue to outline through perhaps three or four chapters before he'll be really ready to start writing papers. He'll write about a page a week for history, some from SWB's books, some from his reading lists. He'll be expected to write a couple of larger papers (5-7+ pgs) during the course of the year. Depending on how he does with that, he'll be assigned more or different reading. I've recruited family members for various sections of history, folks who've been fascinated with certain time periods/historical figures, who would welcome an opportunity to discuss their fascinations with a budding historian. He'll continue to play Civ IV. Laugh if you must ;) but he oftens relates quotes cited in the game to appropriate situations IRL, spawning lengthy conversations about the way he's playing vs. how history really unfolded, how to keep your civilization from crashing -- with illustrations from the bigger, "less good" decisions ever made (last tree chopped down on Easter Island, not having a back-up plan for when the Little Ice Age hit Greenland).

 

We'll adjust and ramp up from there. I don't think the book in question is a complete curriculum, but I have to tell you, from the skimming I've done so far, it rocks as a spine or resource. I think that combining it with the possibilities laid out in TWTM would result in a solid high school history program. Have I mentioned that I sure hope Susan (W.B.) hurries up with those other books? We've got about 14 months before we'll be needing the second book, which sure doesn't give her much time for three and four, now does it?

 

:D

 

Hope that helps some, Susan. Nice to "meet" you.

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I loved SOTW. It opened the doors of history to my kiddos, and to ME! I never learned much history in school, and considered it a very dull, dead subject. My goodness, how wrong I was! We read each volume of SOTW aloud, learned tons, had great discussions, read historical fiction that pertained to what we were learning in SOTW....you ladies understand, I'm sure.

 

Anyway, if it wasn't for SOTW, I might still have no interest in history. But as it is, I love it. I read history for fun! And you know what's on my night table, right? HOTAW. I'm savoring it. Sign me up for laundry or cooking....I need volume 2 as well!

 

Many thanks, Susan, for kindling a love of history in so many of us.

 

Ria

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In answer to the OP and a couple of others...

 

The Norton history series is planned to go up through modern times. The Medieval History volume is in production for publication in February 2010...sorry, it's a ways off, but it's a big complicated book.

 

We are hoping to produce an accompanying curricula for the history series...I don't have anything like a date for that, but it is definitely on the horizon.

 

SWB

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Those tags are hilarious!:lol:

 

:iagree:

 

I especially like The Well-Trained Smackdown - props to the one who came up with it!!

 

And we used The History of The Ancient World as part of a great study of Ancient History. I made up a schedule for it, Spielvogel, TTC Western Civ dvds, Smarr Ancient Lit, a few extra books and several writing assignments. It was a good year!

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