Karen sn Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 And I think it's insane to WANT to be a *single* of mom of 14. Especially when 8 are babies. Her mother is not at all thrilled as they live with her. Publicity stunt? The next reality show? At what point do doctors use their heads over their wallet? http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090131/ap_on_re_us/octuplets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5kidsforME Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 (edited) And I think it's insane to WANT to be a *single* of mom of 14.Especially when 8 are babies. Her mother is not at all thrilled as they live with her. Publicity stunt? The next reality show? At what point do doctors use their heads over their wallet? http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090131/ap_on_re_us/octuplets The way our society has become, she should be able to do wahtever she wants, whatever feels good to her, no matter the cost or consequences to the rest of the society members. ETA: :glare: Edited January 31, 2009 by Momto4kids Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TraceyS/FL Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 Part of that story was on my local stations web site, then the next day (wait, day before?)- her dad has a story talking about her DH deploying to Iraq soon. I was really really confused.... and think i still am. The stories don't match at all. http://www.wesh.com/health/18600993/detail.html The children's grandfather told The Associated Press the babies are doing well but he hasn't learned their names. His comments came outside a modest home in Whittier, Calif., where he had pulled up in a minivan with two of the woman's other children -- a 7-year-old and 6-year-old. They confirmed that their mother now has 14 children. Making things a little trickier, the woman's husband will soon be returning to Iraq to serve. kaiser is an HMP Hospital, i didn't know you could get in there without being one of their members?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karen sn Posted January 31, 2009 Author Share Posted January 31, 2009 Part of that story was on my local stations web site, then the next day (wait, day before?)- her dad has a story talking about her DH deploying to Iraq soon. I was really really confused.... and think i still am. The stories don't match at all. http://www.wesh.com/health/18600993/detail.html kaiser is an HMP Hospital, i didn't know you could get in there without being one of their members?! Yes, we can't trust the news for everything. It just blows my mind the way people use technology. Married or not - I think 8 babies at once is not natural. We're not cats. Why she's not satisfied with the 6 she already has is quite sad. Brave new world I guess...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melissel Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 Part of that story was on my local stations web site, then the next day (wait, day before?)- her dad has a story talking about her DH deploying to Iraq soon. I was really really confused.... and think i still am. The stories don't match at all. http://www.wesh.com/health/18600993/detail.html kaiser is an HMP Hospital, i didn't know you could get in there without being one of their members?! The story I just read said the the GRANDFATHER is the one hightailing it back to Iraq, ostensibly to earn money to help support the whole family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 At what point do doctors use their heads over their wallet? http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090131/ap_on_re_us/octuplets Good question! Just because they *can* do something doesn't mean that they *should*. Some group of medical people decides who gets organ transplants so I think there should also be tighter controls concerning who has access to reproductive technology. I think there's something very wrong with using artificial means to help this single mother keep having children. BUT, I'm pro life and I have to agree with the part in the article about the mother not wanting to have her frozen embryos destroyed. I don't like the callous way the medical people are playing with life...creating more embryos than are needed and then throwing some of them away like they are nothing more than old fish sticks in the back of the freezer. When I saw a local newstory about an adoption agency for frozen embryos I thought it sounded so creepy. Still, I have to support this but at the same time I wish it wasn't necessary! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 Good question! Just because they *can* do something doesn't mean that they *should*. Some group of medical people decides who gets organ transplants so I think there should also be tighter controls concerning who has access to reproductive technology. I think there's something very wrong with using artificial means to help this single mother keep having children. BUT, I'm pro life and I have to agree with the part in the article about the mother not wanting to have her frozen embryos destroyed. I don't like the callous way the medical people are playing with life...creating more embryos than are needed and then throwing some of them away like they are nothing more than old fish sticks in the back of the freezer. When I saw a local newstory about an adoption agency for frozen embryos I thought it sounded so creepy. Still, I have to support this but at the same time I wish it wasn't necessary! I am Pro-Life, too (and anti-death penalty in case anyone is wondering) and my answer to this: She/doctors/we/humans shouldn't be making embryos in a lab. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 She/doctors/we/humans shouldn't be making embryos in a lab. :iagree: but this could also be a case of the multiple egg release type drugs...still agree that we shouldn't mess with nature in this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crissy Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 (edited) Part of that story was on my local stations web site, then the next day (wait, day before?)- her dad has a story talking about her DH deploying to Iraq soon. I was really really confused.... and think i still am. The stories don't match at all. I heard the same thing. The entire story is so bizarre. ETA: Wait. The story I heard on the televison news last week was that her husband was a contractor working in Iraq. Edited January 31, 2009 by Crissy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela H in Texas Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 Married or not - I think 8 babies at once is not natural. We're not cats.Why she's not satisfied with the 6 she already has is quite sad. oooh, this makes me mad! If I hear ONE more time by family, friends, doctors, etc that I should just be happy with the kids I have..... Seriously, I have NO issue with the fact that she wanted more children. I have a big issue with the fact that there was LIKELY irresponsibility on the part of the doctors and/or the family in regards to the fertility treatment that resulted in eight babies. Her having eight babies at one time was not in her best interest or the best interest of those children or the ones she already has. It is altogether wrong. But it's happened and I hope all the children make it and are as healthy as possible. People should be able to take measures to have more children as they please. It shouldn't matter how many children they have. It shouldn't matter their age either. When I first saw a doctor about fertility treatment after my son (I DID have help to get him, but it wasn't really "fertility treatment."), the doctor pointed out my age and 3 pregnancies and two live births...and everyone points out that I got a boy and a girl, what more could I ask for? Well, *I* wanted to decide to have more babies. And *I* wanted to be respected as a woman to make that decision for myself. And had I gotten treatment THEN, I more likely than now COULD have more children. Anyway, sorry to be on a soap box. But it should be up to any individual family whether or not to have just one or two or to have a houseful (or more). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crissy Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 oooh, this makes me mad! If I hear ONE more time by family, friends, doctors, etc that I should just be happy with the kids I have..... I have a big issue with the fact that there was LIKELY irresponsibility on the part of the doctors and/or the family in regards to the fertility treatment that resulted in eight babies. If indeed she is a single mother living with her own mother, wouldn't some of that irresponsibility be her own? At some point shouldn't an individual 'just be happy' with the number of children they have if they cannot support several more without taxpayer assistance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snickerdoodle Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 (edited) Better not get into this discussion. Edited January 31, 2009 by Snickerdoodle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela H in Texas Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 there was LIKELY irresponsibility on the part of the doctors and/or the family in regards to the fertility treatment wouldn't some of that irresponsibility be her own? When I said family, I meant the woman and her husband. If she is single, it would mean her. I have not seen any mention of taxpayer assistance past the bill run up in the hospital which is directly related to having EIGHT babies at one time. I also don't think that ability to support children has anything to do with whether someone WANTS more children or not. It may, indeed, though, have a bearing on whether they pursue having more children of course. They may not be able to afford to pursue it or they may decide it's not best to pursue it. But that doesn't change the desire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crissy Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 I have not seen any mention of taxpayer assistance past the bill run up in the hospital which is directly related to having EIGHT babies at one time. I probably should not have said that. It is an assumption based on the fact that she is a single mother with fourteen children who, by several news story accounts, is likely unemployed. Also taken into account when forming that assumption are the medical bills--not just the delivery, but also several months worth of neonatal care for eight babies--in addition to the general high cost of raising a child. I also don't think that ability to support children has anything to do with whether someone WANTS more children or not. It may, indeed, though, have a bearing on whether they pursue having more children of course. Which was my point, though I didn't express it very clearly. If one cannot support a large number of children it is my opinion that they should find a way to make peace with the fact and probably not have eight more. Barring that, they should find a way to support such a large family before it becomes a reality. Again, my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol in Cal. Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 She/doctors/we/humans shouldn't be making embryos in a lab. We were utterly committed to every embryo being a child. Pro-life all the way. We ended up with one. I'm so blessed to have had her. Do not tell me that she should not exist. Do not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 We were utterly committed to every embryo being a child. Pro-life all the way. We ended up with one. I'm so blessed to have had her. Do not tell me that she should not exist. Do not. I don't believe that is what is being said. IVF has a rejection rate and miscarriage rate. The idea behind this thought is that people are creating with the knowledge/intent that some will not live. If you would like to share the other side of these concerns, then I'm certain people would be willing to hear them...but these are the concerns (and I'm open to hearing the other side). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swellmomma Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Until I hear the full truth on this story I am holding my opinion. I ahve heard she was single, I have also heard she is married and lives with her folks because her husband works overseas. I have also heard a report that she did not start prenatal care until 12 weeks, which doesn't seem right if she had IVF, since those tend to be highly monitored right from the start. As well any "proper" dr would limit the embryo's implanted to 304, I don't believe that they implanted 4 and all of them split again. Here is my guess on the situation, I think she found fertility drugs like clomid online to make her hyperovulate resulting in the multiple birth and the lack of prenatal monitoring before 12 weeks. Of course I could be talking out my butt on that one, since i have no clue what the truth on this is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yvonne Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Her other 6 kids are between 2 and 7 yo. She's unmarried, lives with her parents (at 30 yo), declared bankruptcy last year, has been pregnant most of the past 8 years. Her behavior in having child after child seems almost urgent and so short-sighted. Her mother's comment about her being "obsessed with having children" makes me think there's got to be something going on for her. ********** From one article....http://www.dailynews.com/news/ci_11595584... The woman's mother "said her daughter, who is unmarried and lives in Whittier, conceived all 14 of her children in the same way and has been obsessed with having children since she was a teenager." "It's over now," she said. "It has to be. It can't go on any longer. She's got six children and no husband. I was brought up the traditional way. I firmly believe in marriage. But she didn't want to get married. So she got the in vitro." "Some medical experts were disturbed to hear that the woman was offered fertility treatment, and troubled by the possibility that she was implanted with so many embryos." "Court records show Suleman filed for bankruptcy last March, but after she failed to make required payments and appear at a creditors' meeting, the case was dismissed. She reported liabilities of $981,371, mostly money owed on two houses she owns in Whittier." "I am not a policeman for reproduction in the United States. My role is to educate patients," said Dr. James Grifo, professor of obstetrics and gynecology at the New York University School of Medicine. "To say all you need is cash and the will to have more kids should not be a sufficient standard to access services," he said. "It is insufficient for adoption. It isn't sufficient to be a foster parent. Why would it be sufficient to run down to the fertility clinic to get embryos transplanted or super-ovulated?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol in Cal. Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 I don't believe that is what is being said. IVF has a rejection rate and miscarriage rate. The idea behind this thought is that people are creating with the knowledge/intent that some will not live. If you would like to share the other side of these concerns, then I'm certain people would be willing to hear them...but these are the concerns (and I'm open to hearing the other side). The words were that no one should be making embryos in a lab. And I am not willing to start a discussion/education note based on the premise that maybe my daughter should not exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol in Cal. Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 ********** "It's over now," she said. "It has to be. It can't go on any longer. She's got six children and no husband. I was brought up the traditional way. I firmly believe in marriage. But she didn't want to get married. So she got the in vitro." "Some medical experts were disturbed to hear that the woman was offered fertility treatment, and troubled by the possibility that she was implanted with so many embryos." I really doubt that the grandmother was correct in thinking that this woman got IVF. It is extremely expensive and usually not covered by insurance much at all. And the infertility practice of the very early days of putting in a ton of embryos to compensate for the poor success rate died out about 10 years ago. Typically they put in 2, or if you are willing to commit in writing to a 'reduction' (unacceptable to me), 3. The story is much more consistent with the use of fertility drugs. Those are more likely to be covered by insurance. And the lack of monitoring and prenatal care early in the pregnancy is much more believable with fertility drugs alone than with IVF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 The words were that no one should be making embryos in a lab. And I am not willing to start a discussion/education note based on the premise that maybe my daughter should not exist. Okay. Can't say I wasn't trying to understand. (and it wasn't based on the premise that your daughter shouldn't exist) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudoMom Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 I really doubt that the grandmother was correct in thinking that this woman got IVF. It is extremely expensive and usually not covered by insurance much at all. And the infertility practice of the very early days of putting in a ton of embryos to compensate for the poor success rate died out about 10 years ago. Typically they put in 2, or if you are willing to commit in writing to a 'reduction' (unacceptable to me), 3. The story is much more consistent with the use of fertility drugs. Those are more likely to be covered by insurance. And the lack of monitoring and prenatal care early in the pregnancy is much more believable with fertility drugs alone than with IVF. I heard on the news this morning that she's gotten pregnant every time with the same donor sperm. She has a set of twins in her previous 6. The sperm donor is not her ex-dh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plucky Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 (edited) I heard on the news this morning that she's gotten pregnant every time with the same donor sperm. She has a set of twins in her previous 6. The sperm donor is not her ex-dh. Nevermind. I don't want to introduce any false theories. Ick. Edited February 1, 2009 by True Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol in Cal. Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 I heard on the news this morning that she's gotten pregnant every time with the same donor sperm. She has a set of twins in her previous 6. The sperm donor is not her ex-dh. She would need donor sperm regardless of whether she used IVF or just fertility drugs. There are, uh, several ways to interpret 'donor' in this case. I interpret it quite loosely, as in, 'from someone not her husband who is not committed to the upbringing of the children.' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TN Mama Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 I have read so many different things, there is just no telling what the "real" truth is in this situation. In this article a woman who helped care for the mother's autistic son was quoted as saying: "She told me that all of her kids were through in vitro, and I said 'Gosh, how can you afford that and go to school at the same time?"' she added. "And she said it's because she got paid for it." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yvonne Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 The story is much more consistent with the use of fertility drugs. Those are more likely to be covered by insurance. And the lack of monitoring and prenatal care early in the pregnancy is much more believable with fertility drugs alone than with IVF. Some articles have reported that Kaiser said she came to them at 12 weeks from an 'outside provider' or something like that. Doesn't matter much how it happened. The question is whether it should have happened. Fertility experts seem to agree that, if it was IVF, she should never have been implanted with 8 embryos, especially given her track record of successful pregnancies. If it was fertility drugs, she should have been being monitored and should have been told to avoid pregnancy during a cycle where so many eggs had been produced. The technology is there, but apparently there are no standards other than the desire to have more children and having the money to buy some sperm and/or eggs. Is that enough? Is it even possible to set any other standard? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brenda in FL Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 I don't believe that is what is being said. IVF has a rejection rate and miscarriage rate. The idea behind this thought is that people are creating with the knowledge/intent that some will not live. If you would like to share the other side of these concerns, then I'm certain people would be willing to hear them...but these are the concerns (and I'm open to hearing the other side). Normal pregnancy also has a rejection/miscarriage rate. The rate of survival for my normally conceived pregnancies have been 50%. For some its a great deal higher. For those who have done IVF - I don't believe the thought process is that much different. If I were to try to conceive another baby - I know that it would be unlikely that it would survive - does that make conception wrong? I don't think so. However, I do think that it is unfortunate that at times many embryos are conceived and not all used. Personally, I think this would be a very hard decision to try to put myself in not having been there. The cost of the procedure, the desire to have children, I can see where parents would choose to have it all done at one time as opposed to a smaller number. But its too highly a sensitive situation to ever assume what I would deem right or wrong in that situation. :grouphug: Hugs to Carol in Cal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Normal pregnancy also has a rejection/miscarriage rate. The rate of survival for my normally conceived pregnancies have been 50%. For some its a great deal higher. For those who have done IVF - I don't believe the thought process is that much different. If I were to try to conceive another baby - I know that it would be unlikely that it would survive - does that make conception wrong? I don't think so. However, I do think that it is unfortunate that at times many embryos are conceived and not all used. Personally, I think this would be a very hard decision to try to put myself in not having been there. The cost of the procedure, the desire to have children, I can see where parents would choose to have it all done at one time as opposed to a smaller number. But its too highly a sensitive situation to ever assume what I would deem right or wrong in that situation. :grouphug: Hugs to Carol in Cal. I was viewing rejection (by the medical community) and miscarriage as two separate things. Rejection would be the main issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela H in Texas Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 The idea behind this thought is that people are creating with the knowledge/intent that some will not live. For the majority of people, most times that an egg and a sperm come together doesn't end with a baby. The only difference is that most people don't know that it even happened that month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela H in Texas Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 I think she found fertility drugs like clomid online Clomid doesn't cause this sort of thing. That isn't how it works. Clomid has a 10% chance of multiples and the multiples are small. If she did this herself (I think fairly likely), she did it with injectibles. And like I said in another thread, *I* couldn't have told you where to get drugs in my high school, but I can get any fertility medication I want online. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 For the majority of people, most times that an egg and a sperm come together doesn't end with a baby. The only difference is that most people don't know that it even happened that month. I'm aware of this...I'm not ignorant, honest. But are you saying that there isn't a difference when it's done intentionally and not by natural means? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumping In Puddles Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 (edited) edited since we don't really know all the facts. Edited February 1, 2009 by Jumping In Puddles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrie12345 Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Whatever the case (and you can't trust ANY of the "news" reports on this), would someone please get those da*n cameras off of those innocent kids' faces and home?! What is wrong with people?:glare: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumping In Puddles Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Octuplets’ mother wants Oprah to turn her into a $2m TV star :001_huh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsmom Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Whatever the case (and you can't trust ANY of the "news" reports on this), would someone please get those da*n cameras off of those innocent kids' faces and home?! What is wrong with people?:glare: I agree! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsmom Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 This story sounds like a highschool rumor mill! I mean come on look at what they are saying. #1 single mother ~ what single mother can afford IVF? #2 single mother who lives off of student grants and such ~ really do you think she really can afford all of what they are saying? #3 a lot of the neg talk is coming from the mother ~ that tells me there is problems there #4 as anyone thought that maybe the father doesn't want to be in the public eye, and he is there??? And the grandma just doesn't like him? Hence words like donor? (my mom did not like my dad and she called my "the donor") #5 this is her life, her body, her choice, her children! None of us have a right to judge we are not her! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumping In Puddles Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 (edited) This story sounds like a highschool rumor mill! I mean come on look at what they are saying. #1 single mother ~ what single mother can afford IVF? #2 single mother who lives off of student grants and such ~ really do you think she really can afford all of what they are saying? #3 a lot of the neg talk is coming from the mother ~ that tells me there is problems there #4 as anyone thought that maybe the father doesn't want to be in the public eye, and he is there??? And the grandma just doesn't like him? Hence words like donor? (my mom did not like my dad and she called my "the donor") #5 this is her life, her body, her choice, her children! None of us have a right to judge we are not her! Good points! This would all be easier to discuss if it were hypothetical. It's harder when it's a real family with motives that we know nothing about. Edited February 1, 2009 by Jumping In Puddles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swellmomma Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Clomid doesn't cause this sort of thing. That isn't how it works. Clomid has a 10% chance of multiples and the multiples are small. If she did this herself (I think fairly likely), she did it with injectibles. And like I said in another thread, *I* couldn't have told you where to get drugs in my high school, but I can get any fertility medication I want online. Shows how little I know about fertility treatments. I didn't even think that you could get injectibles online like that. It's pretty scary over all that people can get any of that stuff online without a dr's supervision. I read the link about the $2m being asked for, and started reading the comments, one of the recent ones suggested that the sperm donor be compelled to support these kids. WHich brings up a whole other issue, IF she did this to herself which I suspect, and she found a donor outside of a clinic should he be forced to pay child support for 8 children. I can see the arguement of you play you pay, but I would assume that any man would not expect that the woman is taking fertility drugs to have 8 babies. ANd if she bought frozen sperm to use at home (or did in fact go to a clinic), is there something that legally keeps the donor safe from her coming after him for support. ANother angle on this, reports say is was a friend she made while working in a fertility clinic(hmmm perhaps she didn't need the internet and stole the meds she wanted), if DNA proves he is the father, I wonder if he will sue for custody since clearly she has too many to care for (14 under the age of 8), claims to be a professional student so no income, and imo has some mental issues at play to be going this route. I can understand the desire to have more children even as a single parent. I have had that desire, and twice utilized a sperm donor, though never fertility drugs, but at the same time understand the limitations that my budget has, the risk v benefit aspect of another pregnancy, my own mental health, and the current health concerns of my older children. So now with 4 I know I would not actively try to have another unless I was married agan. I am not understanding the thought process between having 6 little ones, including one with autism that would cost a lot in therapies and time, and chosing to use fertility treatments to have more. It's more like she is interested in having a collection of chldren for attention (and money??) than truely wanting to be a good mother and provide for the ones she already has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracey in TX Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Clomid doesn't cause this sort of thing. That isn't how it works. Clomid has a 10% chance of multiples and the multiples are small. If she did this herself (I think fairly likely), she did it with injectibles. And like I said in another thread, *I* couldn't have told you where to get drugs in my high school, but I can get any fertility medication I want online. It CAN cause HOM pregnancies. Doesn't frequently, but many triplets and quads are results of clomid. In addition to this, sometimes eggs are unstable and divide into twins due to the surge in HcG (??). So many factors are at work. It's believed that over 50% of ALL pregnancies begin as twins. Most vanish within first several weeks. Let's assume, for fun, that she gets pregnant with 4, and all divide into identicals. It's theoretically possible. We don't hear abut this because almost everyone who is pregnant with more than 4 reduces (kills 1+ baby in utero, prior to 12 wks). Those who don't almost always loose at least one baby, if not the entire pregnancy. I know someone who used her BFF's leftover fertility meds. Absolute stupidity. Others are given meds and are monitored prior to marital relations to ensure there aren't too many eggs to be fertilized. The doctor can only control his portion of the equation. SHould said couple have sexual relations against doctor's recommendation and become pregnant with many babies, it was their own impulsive choice. Then the decision to reduce is heavily encouraged by the doctor. Strange things happen all the time. We conceived triplets naturally. Had never heard of this before. It's always possible that the woman didn't begin with more than 4 eggs. No matter how it transpired, we will now be responsible for caring for 14 children (8 preemies included) for the next 18 years. Somehow, some way we have to put restrictions on what is allowable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionfamily1999 Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 I probably should not have said that. It is an assumption based on the fact that she is a single mother with fourteen children who, by several news story accounts, is likely unemployed. Also taken into account when forming that assumption are the medical bills--not just the delivery, but also several months worth of neonatal care for eight babies--in addition to the general high cost of raising a child. Which was my point, though I didn't express it very clearly. If one cannot support a large number of children it is my opinion that they should find a way to make peace with the fact and probably not have eight more. Barring that, they should find a way to support such a large family before it becomes a reality. Again, my opinion. People define support differently. Perhaps, she loves her children, lives for her children and believes that by being an interested and loving mother she can more than provide for them? As for the assumptions about money, if she was getting fertility treatment, there was money somewhere. Until I hear the full truth on this story I am holding my opinion. :iagree: I have read so many different things, there is just no telling what the "real" truth is in this situation. :iagree: I understand wanting to have more children (even with 6 kids) but... but... we can't have everything we want just because we want it. It is not a hard concept and even little children are capable of understanding that. I understand that bad things happen to good people sometimes and a little assistance can go along way but this was all planned? Wow. Some people have no respect for others. Once she knew she was pregnant with 8 embryos, and was offered to selectively reduce them, I don't necessarily think she made the wrong decision (in a series of what I would call wrong decisions!) because really, you are being asked to choose between babies. How would a mother do that? You might think that you can't have everything you want, but this lady evidently disagrees. Second bold statement.... hmmm. This story sounds like a highschool rumor mill! I mean come on look at what they are saying. #1 single mother ~ what single mother can afford IVF? #2 single mother who lives off of student grants and such ~ really do you think she really can afford all of what they are saying? #3 a lot of the neg talk is coming from the mother ~ that tells me there is problems there #4 as anyone thought that maybe the father doesn't want to be in the public eye, and he is there??? And the grandma just doesn't like him? Hence words like donor? (my mom did not like my dad and she called my "the donor") #5 this is her life, her body, her choice, her children! None of us have a right to judge we are not her! :iagree: Whomever gave ANYONE the right to dictate family size or lifestyle to another? Who is it that deserves the right to decide who can or cannot have children and how many is the right number? Please, where are the Duggar people? That couple has a whole mess of kids, I have yet to see anyone complain about it. They ADMIRE these people, but this woman, who's stayed anonymous, who hasn't had press conferences, she must be dumber than a box of rocks? I am SO SICK of the media putting parents on trial, and then PARENTS running with it. WTH? Oh, and if she could afford fertility treatment, then there must be money somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumping In Puddles Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 (edited) You might think that you can't have everything you want, but this lady evidently disagrees. Second bold statement.... hmmm. I bet a lot of people would disagree with me. Second bold statement.... hmmm. Are you saying you don't think I have respect for anyone? If you are, then I should edit my statement because I don't want it to come off like that. It was just my opinion on the situation (based on a few news reports). Edited February 1, 2009 by Jumping In Puddles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionfamily1999 Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 (edited) I bet a lot of people would disagree with me. Second bold statement.... hmmm. Are you saying you don't think I have respect for anyone? If you are, then I should edit my statement because I don't want it to come off like that. I'm saying that no one in the media has respected this woman's privacy. Respect for this lady, her neighborhood, her family and her children are in very short supply. They've run with this story, made it into some national debate, and it is not news. It's just not something that belongs on the news, it's not something that should be debated. It's her life, it's her family, it's the lives of her children. About the best quote I've seen, on the news, regarding this whole....... thing.... was one of her neighbors. He said (pretty much, I didn't write it down at the time), "she's okay, her babies are okay, we're okay, the only thing that is not okay is you." You, being the camera guy/reporter. btw..... nice hiney. Edited February 1, 2009 by lionfamily1999 because I forgot to mention the pic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumping In Puddles Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 btw..... nice hiney. That's the beauty of my avatar, no matter what I say, agree or disagree on the topic but I always add a little something with my 'tar! :lol: :lol: :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crissy Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 I am SO SICK of the media putting parents on trial, and then PARENTS running with it. WTH? It's a discussion board. We're having a discussion about our opinions on the topic. No one is on trial here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunshine Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 If indeed she is a single mother living with her own mother, wouldn't some of that irresponsibility be her own?At some point shouldn't an individual 'just be happy' with the number of children they have if they cannot support several more without taxpayer assistance? Is she on taxpaper support? did she use Medicaid for the fertility treatments which are 10,000 plus each for IVF. Less for for less invasive> What do we know? I disagree with her having babies by sperm donor. The 14 kids don't have a father and never will even if it is just to say what a deadbeat dad he is. I don't agree that everyone should just be happy with what you have. there are too many who can't have any and although they would adopt, it is cheaper to get serious infertility treatments than adopt. I have 2 fertility aided daughters, 1 natural conceived son, 1 daughter in a grave, 2 abortions and 1 miscarriage. 5 from one husband and 2 before the age of 15 (abortions, one a rape). I miss each and every one that is not with me and would give anything to have them, I adore the ones I have and beg God every month for more. Twins, singles, triplets I dont' care. But only someone who understands the desire of wanting more children and then discovering you cannot have any would understand the deep buring desire. Those who just have to say "hmm a baby would be nice" and poof you're pregnant, won't. I wish I had that problem. SO no I won't condemn her desires, but am shocked at the selfishness of her having so many without the benefit of a father. and without the support of those who live with her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsmom Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Well I finally found an article on this that is not putting the mother down!http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28927339?GT1=43001 I truly love what the grandfather says about after the babies come home. So, I am starting to think too much of this is hear say and reporters twisting peoples words. (imagine that) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crissy Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Whomever gave ANYONE the right to dictate family size or lifestyle to another? Who is it that deserves the right to decide who can or cannot have children and how many is the right number? No one is trying to dictate another's lifestyle. I offered my opinion that this woman's choices in her situation, as we understand them based on news reports, is irresponsible. Her apparent desire to have that many children does not change my opinion. We're having a discussion not changing policy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionfamily1999 Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Not here, in the media. The Adolph Hitler kid was one thing. They sought it out. This lady, she's trying to stay anonymous, or at least doing an okay job of staying on the dl, but the media is making her a debate. The only real 'problem' I have with the discussion, besides what has brought it up, is that parents, esp. parents that buck the system, are tearing down someone they do not know, with flimsy 'facts' from a media that does not know anything either. It kills me that parents that face the redicule of family members and proponents of public schools would tear this woman apart. Add in the attraction to the Duggars and it is so rediculous and catty and snide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionfamily1999 Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 No one is trying to dictate another's lifestyle. I offered my opinion that this woman's choices in her situation, as we understand them based on news reports, is irresponsible. Her apparent desire to have that many children does not change my opinion. We're having a discussion not changing policy. No, you're not dictating lifestyle. You're calling her irresponsible with nothing more that he-said-she-said 'facts' to back it up. You're questioning her decisions without knowing anything that led up to them. It seriously bothers me that people would question/tear down/disparrage someone with absolutely no knowledge of this person. For all anyone knows the reporters chose a random neighborhood and started bugging some insane cat lady for comments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crissy Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 It kills me that parents that face the redicule of family members and proponents of public schools would tear this woman apart. Add in the attraction to the Duggars and it is so rediculous and catty and snide. Who is being 'torn apart'? Some people disagree with her choices (as we believe them to be) and are voicing an opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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