I wish to discuss support for homeschooling..........

[Joanne]

Note: I am not writing to hurt feelings, to single out any specific poster, to suggest that anyone is not welcome here. I realize we have mixed educational settings. I also realize that we have evolved into a *community*, with a history, with a vernacular, with the ups and downs of intimate knowledge of each other.

 

However, in the past few years, I've gotten increasingly frustrated and sad at the growing "voice" here when a poster posts anti public school content. Yes, I know the reasons people homeschool vary in many ways. Yes, I realize that not everyone homeschools for "idealogical" reasons.

 

But. This is a homeschooling board. On a mixed/general parenting board, I'd expect reminders of respect, admonishment about making generalizations, remembering that "each family has to make the choices that are best".

 

But. Homeschoolers are making a counter-cultural choice. Often, we encounter hostile in laws, siblings, bosses, churches, and grocery store clerks. We can go *anywhere* in person and thousands of places online to hear moderated, reasoned (and possibly even accurate) counters to our homeschooling choice.

 

I firmly believe that "we" should be able to come to a specific, dedicated board about homeschooling and be able to express an anti public (or private) school bias without being ticketed by the "nice police".

 

My anti public school feelings are not a personal commentary on any particular poster. They are not meant to hurt, single out or be critical of you. I would, however, like to come here and talk about my observations in public school settings without being reminded that "not all schools are like that" or {fill in the blank with some mitigating, chastising comment}. If I went to a "general parenting" board or even a general Christian board, I'd not expect this; but at a homeschooling board?

[RoughCollie]

Your wish is my command. :D

 

I have kids in both PS and HS. There are advantages and drawbacks to both, and I am fully aware of them as concerns PS in general, our PS in particular, and the same with HS.

 

I do not mind in the least when someone bashes or supports PS because I understand that an individual's opinion of PS's in general is not always true of our PS in particular. Besides, I share many of those PS in general opinions, and some apply to our PS.

 

I think everyone does what is best for their children, if at all possible. Sometimes that means, as in my case, sending some of them to PS even if I do not want to, solely because that is what is best for those children.

 

I hope I didn't ticket you or anyone else, Joanne. I don't think I have, but I'm not totally sure due to having senior moments from time to time.

 

RC

Edited January 4, 2009 by RoughCollie

[I talk to the trees]

Note: I am not writing to hurt feelings, to single out any specific poster, to suggest that anyone is not welcome here. I realize we have mixed educational settings. I also realize that we have evolved into a *community*, with a history, with a vernacular, with the ups and downs of intimate knowledge of each other.

 

However, in the past few years, I've gotten increasingly frustrated and sad at the growing "voice" here when a poster posts anti public school content. Yes, I know the reasons people homeschool vary in many ways. Yes, I realize that not everyone homeschools for "idealogical" reasons.

 

But. This is a homeschooling board. On a mixed/general parenting board, I'd expect reminders of respect, admonishment about making generalizations, remembering that "each family has to make the choices that are best".

 

But. Homeschoolers are making a counter-cultural choice. Often, we encounter hostile in laws, siblings, bosses, churches, and grocery store clerks. We can go *anywhere* in person and thousands of places online to hear moderated, reasoned (and possibly even accurate) counters to our homeschooling choice.

 

I firmly believe that "we" should be able to come to a specific, dedicated board about homeschooling and be able to express an anti public (or private) school bias without being ticketed by the "nice police".

 

My anti public school feelings are not a personal commentary on any particular poster. They are not meant to hurt, single out or be critical of you. I would, however, like to come here and talk about my observations in public school settings without being reminded that "not all schools are like that" or {fill in the blank with some mitigating, chastising comment}. If I went to a "general parenting" board or even a general Christian board, I'd not expect this; but at a homeschooling board?

 

I know it's irritating when someone quotes a whole post and then fails to add anything meaningful to their post. But you have said it all so well, that there is nothing to add except: Ditto.

 

-Robin

[Scarlett]

But. Homeschoolers are making a counter-cultural choice. Often, we encounter hostile in laws, siblings, bosses, churches, and grocery store clerks.

 

And might I add dhs as well. A hostile dh is equal to an entire extended family in difficulty. So I truly need this board's encouragement.

[Vida Winter]

And might I add dhs as well. A hostile dh is equal to an entire extended family in difficulty. So I truly need this board's encouragement.

 

I'm sorry you have to deal with that, Scarlett. I imagine it must make things very difficult for you.

[Alana in Canada]

I have been inconsistently lurking on these homeschooling boards since we began three and 1/2 years ago, now.

 

I'll try and ask this in the nicest way: what is the point of your post Joanne?

 

Given--

we have evolved into a *community*, with a history, with a vernacular, with the ups and downs of intimate knowledge of each other.

 

 

Then what can one do but ban all those who do not homeschool from the boards?

 

--and I am in no way suggesting this be done, by the way!

 

What I wonder is why do folks with kids in ps hang out here anyway?

Edited January 4, 2009 by Alana in Canada

[swellmomma]

I think though it is possible for someone to be pro-homeschooling without having to blame everything wrong with society on public schools. The biggest issue with public schools is bad parenting, parents who don't give a da*m about what is going on in their children's lives, who expect to wash their hands of any parenting once their child hits 5 and can go through those big doors. I am not a supporter of public schools as a whole, but to blame the schools themselves as a reason kids are messed up is a far reach. That's like blaming the gun for killing another person. The schools are simply a tool and in the wrong hands a danger, but in and of themselves are benign. I do not think recognizing that makes anyone pro-ps, nor does it give cause for chastizing others for having a view opposing yours.

[Parrothead]

 

What I wonder is why do folks with kids in ps hang out here anyway?

There are a few that have kids in homeschool and public/private school.

 

There are parents that have homeschooled in the past, and now their kids go to public/private school. They still have friends here and a wealth of information from their homeschooling days to pass on to people who need it.

 

There are people here who are thinking of homeschooling, but haven't yet made the commitment to homeschool.

[Erica in PA]

 

Homeschoolers are making a counter-cultural choice. Often, we

I firmly believe that "we" should be able to come to a specific, dedicated board about homeschooling and be able to express an anti public (or private) school bias without being ticketed by the "nice police".

 

 

 

LOL, I just had to laugh a bit at this quote, because I have definitely noticed a significant presence of "nice police" on this board, way more than on any other online community I've observed. On the one hand it probably does help to make this one of the most polite boards I've ever seen, but on the other hand it can be incredibly annoying as well! :tongue_smilie:

 

I agree with your sentiments, Joanne, and wish the community here were different in allowing more freedom in allowing posts with strong beliefs stated to go unmoderated, but I don't think it ever will be. I think this is just one of those times where we have to take the bad that goes along with the good.

[Audrey]

There are a few that have kids in homeschool and public/private school.

 

There are parents that have homeschooled in the past, and now their kids go to public/private school. They still have friends here and a wealth of information from their homeschooling days to pass on to people who need it.

 

There are people here who are thinking of homeschooling, but haven't yet made the commitment to homeschool.

 

That last group was me for the longest time (when it was the old boards). I wanted to do it. Ds was very, very young... but I had these nagging self-doubts. If it weren't for lurking on the boards, I might not have been able to grow the spine to just go for homeschooling full on!

 

Also... there are some here who used to hs, then had kids in ps, and maybe... just maybe they're wanting to keep in the loop because they have hopes or thoughts of switching back to hs. I know of at least 2 on this board like that.

 

Homeschooling boards, in general, aren't just for the practicing hs'ers... they are also for the BTDT crowd and the "hopes and dreams" crowd.

 

Joanne, as for the "be nice police".... just ignore it, if you think they're full of it. It's a board with a lot of diversity. If you're going to say what you REALLY think, then you kind of have to grow some rhino skin for when other people decide to say what they really think, or just ignore them. Personally, I don't like the "be nice police." It stifles thought. If we have to walk on eggshells about every topic under the sun, then what's the point in being on a board at all?

Edited January 4, 2009 by Audrey

[Stacy in NJ]

I think though it is possible for someone to be pro-homeschooling without having to blame everything wrong with society on public schools. The biggest issue with public schools is bad parenting, parents who don't give a da*m about what is going on in their children's lives, who expect to wash their hands of any parenting once their child hits 5 and can go through those big doors. I am not a supporter of public schools as a whole, but to blame the schools themselves as a reason kids are messed up is a far reach. That's like blaming the gun for killing another person. The schools are simply a tool and in the wrong hands a danger, but in and of themselves are benign. I do not think recognizing that makes anyone pro-ps, nor does it give cause for chastizing others for having a view opposing yours.

 

I really agree with this. Being pro-homeschooling doesn't mean we need to be anti-public/private schooling. I am pro-choice - with regards to school options.:001_smile:

 

I do think there are some pretty profound positive to homeschooling for most families, but those positive aren't always a reality for all.

 

Joanne, if some posters choose to caution you or try to qualify your remarks, you should absolutely feel that you can counter their comments without apology.

[Colleen]

I understand and appreciate what you're saying, Joann. I believe that as this community has grown, so too have the number of members who either no longer homeschool or who homeschool only some of their children. That variation in our membership is evident by the nature and tenor of the discussions. As one who would like to continue home education throughout high school ~ and who has virtually no "real life" peers who share that desire ~ I not only want, I truly need the support and encouragement of this community.

 

But here's what I think. I think that support and encouragement can be deliverd ~ in fact, I prefer it's delivered ~ in a "pro-homeschooling" package rather than an "anti-public school" parcel. I don't do fear factor. I don't homeschool because I'm afraid of the alternatives, and I advise others (if they ask me) not to do so, either. My motivation to homeschool is a belief that it's good for us, not that the alternatives are scary and evil. Now, one can assume ~ and it would be a correct assumption ~ that in choosing to homeschool I'm essentially saying this choice is "better than". Yes! I believe it's better for us than the alternatives, but that belief needn't lead me to trash the other options.

 

Yes, I want to be able to come here for support in my homeschooling endeavours and receive that support. I don't want to be reminded that my choice is merely one of many, that what I'm doing might not be best for everybody, yada yada yada. But what I don't understand is why coming here for such support would entail expressing a bias against anything else? Why the negativity? Why not focus instead on the positives of what we're doing rather than the negatives of what we're not doing?

[Blessedfamily]

I think some people are sticklers for that particular issue (among others) because they see the "us against them" mentality as part of a certain image of homeschoolers.

 

They dont' want to be associated with the vision of homeschoolers as cultish, isolated, radical, anti-public school people. So they are vocally "live and let live".

 

Just a thought. Not my own case.

[Erica in PA]

 

But here's what I think. I think that support and encouragement can be deliverd ~ in fact, I prefer it's delivered ~ in a "pro-homeschooling" package rather than an "anti-public school" parcel. I don't do fear factor. I don't homeschool because I'm afraid of the alternatives, and I advise others (if they ask me) not to do so, either. My motivation to homeschool is a belief that it's good for us, not that the alternatives are scary and evil.

 

Okay, but what if you *were* homeschooling for other reasons? What about those who are homeschooling in part or even primarily because they have problems with the public school system? Is that not an acceptable thought to express? If not here, then where?

[Colleen]

Okay, but what if you *were* homeschooling for other reasons? What about those who are homeschooling in part or even primarily because they have problems with the public school system? Is that not an acceptable thought to express? If not here, then where?

 

A thought to express...how so? Starting a thread that says, "I'm homeschooling because I hate public schools"? What's the point of that? What's the point, if one has chosen to homeschool, in getting into a negative, "let's-bash-the-schools" discussion? How is that supportive of one's homeschooling endeavours? I honestly don't understand.

[Erica in PA]

 

A thought to express...how so? Starting a thread that says, "I'm homeschooling because I hate public schools"? What's the point of that? What's the point, if one has chosen to homeschool, in getting into a negative, "let's-bash-the-schools" discussion? How is that supportive of one's homeschooling endeavours? I honestly don't understand.

 

Well, just as you posted your own reasons for homeschooling just above, for example. You feel free to express your reasons for homeschooling, so why shouldn't another person who has different reasons from yours? You may well be comfortable with public schools. You may think they are perfectly acceptable, and wouldn't have a problem with sending your boys there. From previous posts, I recall you saying that you are homeschooling because homeschooling fits your family, not because the schools are bad... but others don't view public schools that way. Some people do think that in general they are bad places. But on this board, posting such a view will lead to corrections and qualifications.

 

What you might view as a "let's bash the schools" discussion, might be another person's expression of their reasons for homeschooling. And I think the reason why Joanne brought up this subject, is because it seems strange that on a homeschooling board, opposition to public schools can't go unchallenged. I don't see why we can't all be open about our reasons for homeschooling, even if some make others uncomfortable.

 

(Of course I don't advocate being rude or over the top. But most posts of the type we're discussing are not those things-- they just present a point of view that some here don't want to hear.)

[myfunnybunch]

You know, I've read posts in which you've expressed this idea in the past, and I find myself half nodding...and then as I consider the ramifications, I also disagree.

 

This is a homeschool support community. That is the common thread in our lives, what brings us here. Posts admonishing others for holding a negative opinion of public school are annoying. Reminders that we all have to make the best choices for our families...well, of course. As homeschoolers, making an unusual choice, we know that in spades. I firmly believe that we should all be able to express anti-public school opinions without being told the opinions are in error because we should all be able to do whatever floats our boat.

 

But. Supporting homeschooling and supporting public schooling are not mutually exclusive in the minds of everyone on this board. One of the things that I have always valued about this particular community is the variety of experience and opinion. Are you really asking that those of us with children in public schools not express dissenting opinions or share our experiences for fear that we'll be tagged "nice police"?

 

I've been lurking for a very long time, Joanne, and have a great deal of respect for you and your posts, by the way. I just happen to disagree with this one.

 

Cat

[Tree House Academy]

I understand what you are saying. Everyone has a different reason for homeschooling...and for many people, the state of the public schools IS that reason. I think we should accept it as personal choice and maybe even personal experience and realized maybe not everyone feels that way. You are right...we should be able to vent a bit about ps on an hs board...IMO. But my opinion of ps is also very low...

[Nicole M]

I could be totally, completely off here. I haven't done exhaustive research to confirm this, but my sense is that there isn't so much "nice police" here monitoring anti-public school sentiments, but I do notice that your posts, Joanne, often push folks' buttons. And I always feel like either I'm missing some past history that might justify and unreasonably strong anti-Joanne sentiment or, that the the poster is plain mean.

 

Many of us have had very painful public school experiences, either as students ourselves, or as parents. I feel like it aught to be okay to say, Shoot, that sucked. If that's what you're saying, I'm with you.

[Stacy in NJ]

Many of us have had very painful public school experiences, either as students ourselves, or as parents. I feel like it aught to be okay to say, Shoot, that sucked. If that's what you're saying, I'm with you.

 

I don't think that's what she's saying. I hope Joanne will correct me if I'm wrong. She thinks it should be okay to post anti-ps opinion AND not have to justify the comments to those that have warmer, fuzzier opinions on ps'ing. And that the assumed position on a homeschooling board should be in support of hs'ing without qualifications.

 

At least that's my reading of her comments.

[LMA]

I will just add that most people who "bash" the ps aren't generally bashing the schools for the heck of it nor are those who support the ps are just doing it to be contrary. These people have reasons from personal experience (either from themselves or their kids) or from things reported about their own school system in the newspaper or from friends who do send kids to the ps. And since SWB hasn't put a ban on this particular topic, then those people are free to post as they wish (either positively or negatively) about the ps and others are free to agree/disagree.

[Colleen]

You feel free to express your reasons for homeschooling, so why shouldn't another person who has different reasons from yours? You may well be comfortable with public schools....Some people do think that in general they are bad places. But on this board, posting such a view will lead to corrections and qualifications.

 

As I said to Joann, I do understand where you (both of you) are coming from and to an extent I agree with you. In my opinion, a lot of this has to do with context. If someone is seeking support for homeschooling and saying, "We started homeschooling because we were appalled by what was happening at our child's school", I don't believe that leads to corrections and qualifications. That's not what I see happening here. Rather, when people start fear-mongering and making vast generalizations, making derogatory comments about schools in general, it stands to reason that they may receive a reminder that their experience is just that: One experience.

 

My point is that a community whose primary purpose is to encourage and support homeschooling should be able to do so by upholding the positive elements of this choice, the choice to homeschool. Does that mean no one ever will, or ever should, refer to their displeasure with the educational system or their dissatisfaction with their experiences there? Of course not. But there are ways to support homeschooling and share concerns about schools without devolving into discussions which deride schools and nothing more.

 

(Of course I don't advocate being rude or over the top. But most posts of the type we're discussing are not those things-- they just present a point of view that some here don't want to hear.)

 

As an aside, I actually do feel it's rude to broadbrush schools, teachers, or even students for that matter, all with the same negative assessment. I think it's rude to say, "Teachers today don't know what they're doing", "Kids in schools these days are so mean", "Schools are to be avoided at all costs" and so on. Yes, I think that's rude.

Edited January 4, 2009 by Colleen

[Joanne]

I could be totally, completely off here. I haven't done exhaustive research to confirm this, but my sense is that there isn't so much "nice police" here monitoring anti-public school sentiments, but I do notice that your posts, Joanne, often push folks' buttons. And I always feel like either I'm missing some past history that might justify and unreasonably strong anti-Joanne sentiment or, that the the poster is plain mean.

 

Hm. Maybe. I know my posting style (direct, concise, often without hugs) does push some buttons.

 

Ironically, on the topic of public schools, I am as often the first to say "that is not my experience" as I am "public schools have risks I'd rather my kids not face". I am *not* a frequent public school basher. What I'd like is to have a homeschooling board operate in such as way as to accept that - often - a choice to homeschooling is both pro-homeschooling AND anti institutional school.

[Nicole M]

I don't think that's what she's saying. I hope Joanne will correct me if I'm wrong. She thinks it should be okay to post anti-ps opinion AND not have to justify the comments to those that have warmer, fuzzier opinions on ps'ing. And that the assumed position on a homeschooling board should be in support of hs'ing without qualifications.

 

At least that's my reading of her comments.

 

Well, saying, Shoot that sucked doesn't include any warm fuzzies or qualifications.

 

It's one thing if the assumption is, "There are lots of good reasons not to send a kids to public school." But there's a fine line between that and making Public School the "other" in a way that would demonize PS. Maybe all the warm-fuzzy-overreaction to anti-public school sentiment is fear of demonizing? I don't know.

[Nicole M]

Hm. Maybe. I know my posting style (direct, concise, often without hugs) does push some buttons.

 

Ironically, on the topic of public schools, I am as often the first to say "that is not my experience" as I am "public schools have risks I'd rather my kids not face". I am *not* a frequent public school basher. What I'd like is to have a homeschooling board operate in such as way as to accept that - often - a choice to homeschooling is both pro-homeschooling AND anti institutional school.

 

I should say that I often read a thread and hope that you will weigh in. I appreciate your perspective and way of communicating.

 

Also, I noticed that about your usual stance about PS.

[Joanne]

Also, I noticed that about your usual stance about PS.

 

My reasons for not sending my kids to PS are not the ones often offered by homeschoolers; at least not on the top of the list.

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

 

What I wonder is why do folks with kids in ps hang out here anyway?

 

Perhaps because we were INVITED to?

 

Do you notice that there's an afterschooling portion of this board? Who do folks suspect makes up that particular subset of our population? Why would one think they (we) would come to participate here and then find it pleasant to hear how horrific their (our) choices are?

 

With all respect to Joanne, I'm phasing out my use of this board slowly so the point will surely be moot, but I will be happy to cease commenting on the public school bashing when SWB or another administrator asks me to do so.

[Colleen]

Many of us have had very painful public school experiences, either as students ourselves, or as parents. I feel like it aught to be okay to say, Shoot, that sucked.

 

It is okay. And people say it. And get hugs en masse in return ~ which is a good thing. I have never, ever seen someone post about a painful public school experience and be taken to task for expressing that sentiment. Just the other day, for example, someone shared that she has withdrawn her daughter from middle school due to some bad experiences. She shared, from her heart, a warning of sorts and in return she was warmly supported. She wasn't admonished. She wasn't reminded at length that all schools and all kids aren't bad and so on and so forth. There's a huge difference between sharing one's own unhappy experience and simply ranting about the evils of anything and anyone related to schools.

[Nicole M]

My reasons for not sending my kids to PS are not the ones often offered by homeschoolers; at least not on the top of the list.

 

Gosh. This makes me realize that I don't really have a clear sense of why the general population here has chosen to go the route they have. I have only the vaguest sense that it has to do with morality and general stuff like that. Since we're the lone liberal homeschoolers in our community, I pretty much assumed that many of my reasons were not what others were, but now I just don't know...! And I don't know what your reasons are either. But I always appreciate what you have to say.

[Nicole M]

There's a huge difference between sharing one's own unhappy experience and simply ranting about the evils of anything and anyone related to schools.

 

Yes. That was my point, and that has been my experience here, that it's okay. I am not seeing what Joanne sees, though, except in one thread.

[chaik76]

You know, I've read posts in which you've expressed this idea in the past, and I find myself half nodding...and then as I consider the ramifications, I also disagree.

 

This is a homeschool support community. That is the common thread in our lives, what brings us here. Posts admonishing others for holding a negative opinion of public school are annoying. Reminders that we all have to make the best choices for our families...well, of course. As homeschoolers, making an unusual choice, we know that in spades. I firmly believe that we should all be able to express anti-public school opinions without being told the opinions are in error because we should all be able to do whatever floats our boat.

 

But. Supporting homeschooling and supporting public schooling are not mutually exclusive in the minds of everyone on this board. One of the things that I have always valued about this particular community is the variety of experience and opinion. Are you really asking that those of us with children in public schools not express dissenting opinions or share our experiences for fear that we'll be tagged "nice police"?

 

I've been lurking for a very long time, Joanne, and have a great deal of respect for you and your posts, by the way. I just happen to disagree with this one.

 

Cat

This is about where I stand on this issue, too, to some degree.

 

I haven't had a problem with these boards being anti-this or pro-that. This is one of the most diverse boards that I frequent, and I expect differing opinions. I think they are compounded by the fact that most that post on this board are truly dedicated to their children, intelligent, and think deeply. They are going to find qualifications, etc. to things. I belong to another board that is basically just for support...that is where I go for true 100% homeschooling support. I come here to have my ideas questioned, to find new answers, in short, to learn. Sometimes that's not comfortable (and honestly, I wouldn't always call this a comfortable board), but it's a good place to be.

[lovemyboys]

I think though it is possible for someone to be pro-homeschooling without having to blame everything wrong with society on public schools. The biggest issue with public schools is bad parenting, parents who don't give a da*m about what is going on in their children's lives, who expect to wash their hands of any parenting once their child hits 5 and can go through those big doors. I am not a supporter of public schools as a whole, but to blame the schools themselves as a reason kids are messed up is a far reach. That's like blaming the gun for killing another person. The schools are simply a tool and in the wrong hands a danger, but in and of themselves are benign. I do not think recognizing that makes anyone pro-ps, nor does it give cause for chastizing others for having a view opposing yours.

 

OR -- some (not all) of the parents wish for access to good public schools, or at least better public schools, but can't get them. I've been interested to watch the success that the DC Superintendent of Schools has been having in using choice options for her district. People are noticing the positive results.

 

As for Joanne's post, I think she raises a valid point. This is, afterall, a homeschooling board. While people are all over the spectrum in their relationship to public school in their own lives, here we should be able to discuss both the positives and negatives of the alternatives without being admonished to keep it pro-(insert your side) exclusively. I don't think Joanne or most folks feel that all the ills of society stem from bad public schools.

 

For me, personally, I'm just as likely to skip the "amazingly disgusting thing that happened in a ps in x-town today" as I am to skip the "homeschooling is the only option for every family everywhere" thread. But then I don't open the bread-making threads either. :tongue_smilie:

 

Just seems to me that folks shouldn't be surprised to find opinions that aren't in support of public schooling on a homeschooling board, and a classical one at that (since very few organized schools follow a classical model). Just skip the thread if it might hurt *your* feelings, or cause you to admonish the OP.

[Joanne]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alana in Canada

 

What I wonder is why do folks with kids in ps hang out here anyway?

 

Perhaps because we were INVITED to?

 

{{{Pam}}}

 

This thread isn't about you. Or any specific poster. Truly, honestly. I can't even *name* the people that have kids in PS vs. homeschool.

 

I know why people participate here. Community, history, comfort, information, fun, friends. And I would not want anyone to "go" over this topic. If that became the choice (and fortunately, it won't), I'd vote to keep the "be nice about public school police" rather than ask non current homeschoolers to not participate.

[Peek a Boo]

but to blame the schools themselves as a reason kids are messed up is a far reach. That's like blaming the gun for killing another person. The schools are simply a tool and in the wrong hands a danger, but in and of themselves are benign.

 

I don't think the analogy is correct.

The school system is made of LOTS of people, not a hunk of metal. I freely admit that The System is a huge reason I homeschool. The negative social issues that happen every day in every school are not what i consider beneficial to most humans; even tho many seem to "survive it just fine," there are few that truly thrive. We have a society at large that is a product of years of public education.

I'm not impressed.

And that's just from a secular standpoint.

 

I don't need to 'do fear factor" to realize that one option carries a lot less positives. I absolutely want to know the pros AND cons of a decision. The cons of public school are splashed across the news and have a track record in the media-- I don't have to rely on my own personal anecdotal experience to know that a "great school" is a rare occurrence. I've talked to enough teachers that do acknowledge that parental support is a big part of the problem, but it's not the ONLY variable. The system itself by default can't help every kid, and fails a lot of them [in more ways than one].

 

i absolutely offer that opinion to people considering their schooling choices.

And i'll bring it up again when people suggest that public school is a 'viable alternative' --even tho I know my own posting style tends to push buttons too. I can handle being the anti-PS'er.

 

But it's just an opinion- i won't report you to CPS for sending your kids to school ;)

[Erica in PA]

 

As I said to Joann, I do understand where you (both of you) are coming from and to an extent I agree with you. In my opinion, a lot of this has to do with context. If someone is seeking support for homeschooling and saying, "We started homeschooling because we were appalled by what was happening at our child's school", I don't believe that leads to corrections and qualifications. That's not what I see happening here. Rather, when people start fear-mongering and making vast generalizations, making derogatory comments about schools in general, it stands to reason that they may receive a reminder that their experience is just that: One experience.

 

My point is that a community whose primary purpose is to encourage and support homeschooling should be able to do so by upholding the positive elements of this choice, the choice to homeschool. Does that mean no one ever will, or ever should, refer to their displeasure with the educational system or their dissatisfaction with their experiences there? Of course not. But there are ways to support homeschooling and share concerns about schools without devolving into discussions which deride schools and nothing more.

 

 

 

As an aside, I actually do feel it's rude to broadbrush schools, teachers, or even students for that matter, all with the same negative assessment. I think it's rude to say, "Teachers today don't know what they're doing", "Kids in schools these days are so mean", "Schools are to be avoided at all costs" and so on. Yes, I think that's rude.

 

But then it sounds to me that what you're saying is that not only do you have a different opinion about what is a valid reason for homeschooling (i.e. you don't think that a general negative view of public schools is valid-- you think it's "rude"), but you also feel that other views should not be stated, and that it is acceptable (or even right!) to point them out as being faulty whenever they are posted. That is what I have a problem with. You may disagree with a particular philosophy of homeschooling, but I don't think it makes it necessary or good to point out one's disagreement every time someone posts something reflecting a different philosophy. (I'm not suggesting that *you* point it out every time, but rather that *someone* points it out, most of the time.)

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

{{{Pam}}}

 

This thread isn't about you. Or any specific poster. Truly, honestly. I can't even *name* the people that have kids in PS vs. homeschool.

 

I know why people participate here. Community, history, comfort, information, fun, friends. And I would not want anyone to "go" over this topic. If that became the choice (and fortunately, it won't), I'd vote to keep the "be nice about public school police" rather than ask non current homeschoolers to not participate.

 

Joanne, I'm not leaving over this topic at all. And you've never, to my knowledge, bashed public schools.

 

This isn't about me, in that I don't care. Besides it being annoying to me to be told that this is a homeschooling board and I need to put up with, without comment, the sweeping generalization that alternatives are bad and are bad for everyone for the same reasons, I know that my choices are good ones for our family.

 

I participate here because there is a PLACE for me here. A deliberate place, provided by the owners of the board. A place at the table, particularly the *general board* where I can participate, yes, because of shared history and friends, etc, but also because there is a place setting with forks and a napkin and everything, called the Afterschooling Board. The General Board is where we all come together.

 

You will never find me, nor indeed, I think, any of us once and perhaps future homeschoolers going onto the K-8 or Highschool/Self-Ed boards and making comments about public schooling. I think I mentioned the PSAT/SAT/Merit Scholar process on the high school board, and I think I've talked about how to put together a transcript on the high school board.

 

But on the general board? I would that that at least here, we aren't us vs. them. We are all guests at the various tables and are in here hanging out in SWB's virtual living room.

 

JMO, etc.

Edited January 5, 2009 by Pam "SFSOM" in TN

[Blessedfamily]

--even tho I know my own posting style tends to push buttons too...

 

No! Never!:D (I used your favorite smiley)

 

 

 

But the question is, when you post your anti ps posts, do you think people shouldn't post their own (opposite) opinion in response?

[swellmomma]

I'm not saying ps are great, my older kids were in ps before we started hsing and it was a disaster, I also had horrid experiences in public school my point though is that one does not have to be specifically anti-public school and bash it to be supportive of homeschooling. I also have years of experience working in befor and after school care as well as daycares. I saw just as much shocking things with the little ones in daycare (including sexual behaviour) as from the bigger kids in afterschool care. I didn't have issues with the school itself, but with the people in them, those same people would have caused problems for me or my kids at the playground, the shopping center, a private school or even a hs group simply because they were the type of people who like to bully others, or they were the type who do not understand how to work with special needs etc. THe school itself did not create the issues, the people in them did and unless I plan to live a plastic bubble with my kids away from other people we are going to be exposed to people like that. I just don't see the need to bash a entire system in order to offer support to those who homeschool. I do not feel public school is the right choice for my family, but I also do not feel homeschooling is right for everyone else. SO instead of condemning all of those who are involved int eh public school system, I chose to support those homeschooling with where they are now. I homeschool for many reasons, some of those reasons have changed over the last few years. I also joined a homeschool support group 3 years before I started hsing, I would have hated to be part of that group if I was going to be bashed for having my kids in ps, when I was doing what I felt was best for the kids and family as a whole at that point in time.

 

Instead I got support for the choices I made at that point, even with my kids in school and now 6 years later I am still part of that group because they were so open to me. They let me see the positive side of homeschooling without crushing my current situation into the ground. I attempt to be the same way on that group and here. I am not happy with the experiences I have encountered in ps but I am going to focus more on being pro-homeschooling than anti-psing in order to offer the most supprt to those around me that I can.

 

And now I am rambling, which doesn't help but hope that all made sense.

[JennifersLost]

Yup - I agree with Pam.

 

I think many of us go through a process on these boards. In the beginning we may wish they were more homogenous. We just want to be agreed with all the time.

 

Then, as we gain confidence in OUR choices we realize that we don't have to correct everyone or take part in every conversation or even take part in all points of one conversation.

 

These days I skip what I don't like. If I honestly think someone needs a different perspective I offer it. But I don't really care if they take it.

 

I think this board is for anyone remotely interested in homeschooling for any reason. If someone were to come and bash homeschooling over and over again....yeah - they'd be a troll and we'd be justified in wishing they'd leave. Everything else is fair game, I think.

 

And I, too, believe that it is a good thing to put it out there that we know public school is the right or only choice for some families. AND that we know there are tons of teachers busting their butts to make a positive difference in the world. Otherwise we're just being pretentious and stuck up about homeschooling, you know?

[WTMindy]

{{{Pam}}}

 

This thread isn't about you. Or any specific poster. Truly, honestly. I can't even *name* the people that have kids in PS vs. homeschool.

 

I know why people participate here. Community, history, comfort, information, fun, friends. And I would not want anyone to "go" over this topic. If that became the choice (and fortunately, it won't), I'd vote to keep the "be nice about public school police" rather than ask non current homeschoolers to not participate.

 

If this is the case, Joanne, then I'm curious why you posted this topic. Why not just ignore the people that you disagree with. We have to do that on many topics on this board...religion, politics, parenting styles, etc. Why choose this one issue to make a point?

[MBH]

Joanne,

 

I am 100% with you on this one. It is my goal to support/encourage/pray for those who have been hurt inside or outside of ps.

 

We as homeschoolers need support. After all this is a homeschooling board. If person "A" comes in and says how hurt/discouraged she is as a result of private/public schooling, we should jump in there to encourage her instead of pointing out "my public school is not like yours and here is the reason why I send my kids to ps" type of thing.

 

Please be sensitive and save that for another thread. With that said and done, I have to say there are lots and lots of encouragers on this board.

 

I am not against ps at all, and am thrilled that public schoolers are visiting this board. Everyone (ps and hs) can glean helpful information from this precious website. It has been a tremendous source of help and encouragement to me.

[WTMindy]

Joanne,

 

 

We as homeschoolers need support. After all this is a homeschooling board. If person "A" comes in and says how hurt/discouraged she is as a result of private/public schooling, we should jump in there to encourage her instead of pointing out "my public school is not like yours and here is the reason why I send my kids to ps" type of thing.

 

 

 

I don't think those things are mutually exclusive. Some of the posters who have ps students (or support the ps) are some of the most supportive posters that I know. Just because someone supports PS doesn't mean that they are NOT supportive of homeschooling.

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

Joanne,

 

I am 100% with you on this one. It is my goal to support/encourage/pray for those who have been hurt inside or outside of ps.

 

We as homeschoolers need support. After all this is a homeschooling board. If person "A" comes in and says how hurt/discouraged she is as a result of private/public schooling, we should jump in there to encourage her instead of pointing out "my public school is not like yours and here is the reason why I send my kids to ps" type of thing.

 

 

 

Where, please, has this been done? When someone posts their hurts and discouragements about their own experiences with public schooling, we are all over that person with love and support and encouragement, both on this board and privately.

 

We do. We've always done so. And when it's a theoretical thing, or a petition to ditch public schooling for religious reasons, or when someone's friend told her a horror story she saw or heard, we comment on that and talk about our own anecdotal evidence and so on.

[camibami]

Well, I liken it to discussions about hs'ing on other (non-hsing) boards. Generally, those go paint all hs'ers with a broad brush (ie, we're religious wackos, etc etc). And I will always go into those threads to point out the varied reasons and benefits to hs'ing, that hs'ers are not a cohesive group, and that what works for one family may not for another.

 

And its the same thing, here. If we're discussing ps, there are many reasons for people to put their kids there, varied benefits and drawbacks to doing so, etc.

 

It isn't "non-supportive" to point out facts, is it? Sometimes school is a better option. It just is. Not all schools are horrible, they just aren't. Millions of kids go to/graduate from them eveyr year and turn out just fine.

 

I hs. Obviously, I am not a fan of the ps for my children, time of life, and particular circumstances. I'd be hard pressed to find a family I truly think ought not be hs'ing- really! And I will endeavor to support anyone who is considering/doing/wants to do hs'ing. What I won't do is tell anyone that only hsing is right and psing is not. And effectively, not mentioning the benefits or option to ps, would do that.

 

So I guess thats my long-winded way of saying: no, I can't do that. I hope you understand! It isn't to be unsupportive, its just my honest feeling.

[Joanne]

If this is the case, Joanne, then I'm curious why you posted this topic. Why not just ignore the people that you disagree with. We have to do that on many topics on this board...religion, politics, parenting styles, etc. Why choose this one issue to make a point?

__________________

 

Because it is a *homeschooling* board. Support for homeschooling - including an anti public/private school sentiment - should be expected and allowed.

[Peek a Boo]

But the question is, when you post your anti ps posts, do you think people shouldn't post their own (opposite) opinion in response?

 

sure- I enjoy the banter ;)

[PrairieAir]

I haven't read the entire thread, just the first and then the last two posts. I would like to say that although my kids are now in ps, I do fully support homeschooling and those who choose to homeschool. I also see things as happening as Pam said above.

 

I know for my own part that I avoided posting in a thread about someone else's recent bad ps experience and subsequent decision to return to homeschooling. I didn't feel I had anything helpful to add since the original post was so vague as to the problem they had encountered. I felt badly for the poster and her daughter. I briefly considered what I might be able to say that would be helpful, but I couldn't think of anything that hadn't already been said by the three people to respond first.

 

The two threads about ps that I did respond to in the last few days were different. I know it's a homeschool board and we should expect those on it to favor homeschool over public school. However, the homeschool community does itself (individually and collectively) more harm than good in making the same sort of generalizations about public schools that they would take offense at being made about them. Personally, I expect more out of homeschoolers and homeschoolers on this board in particular.

 

When I am among public school folks, I don't hesitate to correct their generalizations and misconceptions about homeschoolers. Why should I do any differently when faced with such things directed toward public schools here? I'm sorry if anyone sees that as not being supportive of homeschooling.

[newbie]

Joanne,

 

What happens if you have to for some unknown reason, send your kids to ps, will you go off the boards?

 

I would hope if that happened to me, I could still stay here, because I would miss all the great minds and friends I have made here.

[PrairieAir]

Because it is a *homeschooling* board. Support for homeschooling - including an anti public/private school sentiment - should be expected and allowed.

 

Why is support of anti public/private school sentiment necessary for support of homeschooling? I've said it before. This is just another extension of the mommy wars. It's not helpful. It's divisive.

[Bee]

I'd really love to have somewhere that I could go and say that I really think hsing is the best educational option out there for most children and not be criticized for saying it.I say that knowing that my children may someday decide they want to go to ps and if they do, I will let them go.I feel like I have to be so careful not to offend anyone,on the computer,IRL, that I can't be as enthusiastic about hsing as I'd like to be.

I'd love to be able to go somewhere else besides the privacy of my own home and ask if something that doesn't seem quite right about my local ps is a little off kilter without being made to feel like I'm "bashing" ps in general.I'm really trying hard not to do it,much.

I've been hsing for 9 years and I believe in it as much or more than when I did when I started.And I'm tired of having to pretend that that part of my life has to stay hidden behind closed doors most of the time.