I wish to discuss support for homeschooling..........

[Peek a Boo]

I didn't have issues with the school itself, but with the people in them, those same people would have caused problems for me or my kids at the playground, the shopping center, a private school or even a hs group simply because they were the type of people who like to bully others, or they were the type who do not understand how to work with special needs etc. THe school itself did not create the issues, the people in them did and unless I plan to live a plastic bubble with my kids away from other people we are going to be exposed to people like that. I just don't see the need to bash a entire system in order to offer support to those who homeschool.

 

see now, it is precisely because we will interact with those people anyway that I see no value in the daily grind in addition to the expected interactions outside school. The difference is that in those briefer interactions we have more freedom to address those issues in a variety of ways. And they aren't 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, over and over, trapped in a classroom.

 

and Prairie Air:

There have been times in my own homeschool journey where i feel like throwing in the towel-- times where not even the warm fuzzies of great homeschooling stories yank me out of it-- but The Alternative is too distasteful to me so i plug away till the warm fuzzies return. And I can't be the ONLY wacko homeschooler out there who needs that shot in the arm, so here I am pointing it out for those who do. :)

[MBH]

Where, please, has this been done? When someone posts their hurts and discouragements about their own experiences with public schooling, we are all over that person with love and support and encouragement, both on this board and privately.

 

I am not going to hurt people by mentioning names. There is a right time to place a supportive comment about ps (I am not against pro-ps comments at the right time). It's just not appropriate to do so when someone is posting about a hurtful experience they had with ps. Also, if you read further in my post, you will see that I said there are lots of supportive and encouraging people here.

 

I was not referring to you.

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

Because it is a *homeschooling* board. Support for homeschooling - including an anti public/private school sentiment - should be expected and allowed.

 

Such anti-institutional school sentiment is board-expected, but it's not necessarily board-appropriate. :D

 

Sorry. I just couldn't help myself.

 

I don't think supporting homeschoolers extends to bashing alternatives, that's all. And what of the mixed families who come here? They'd have to sit mildly by while others express the GENERAL horrors of ALL institutional schools without comment.

 

No one is talking about the specifics of things happening here or there. We all hate those things. And we certainly should not be all "Not MY child's school, or school bus, or after-school program, or boarding school, or administrator." These things, wherever flawed humans frequent, will happen.

 

But sweeping generalizations and logical fallacies? I sincerely hope that on a Classical Homeschooling Board these sorts of things will be at least commented on and perhaps even refuted. It's part of rational discourse, and unless one wants an "Us four, no more, shut the door" community, they can only strengthen the place. Shining light on every subject should be allowed, IMO, so that truth can show. (Er, except US politics, of course.) Sometimes the truth isn't pretty. Sometimes it goes against our deeply held beliefs. But once we start only listening to voices that tickle our ears and agree with us, we lose a vital part of what it means to be a thinking human, IMO.

 

I hope none of you are ever in a position where you have to choose what you feel is a less than idea schooling or family situation. But I guess I would just want people to know that there is good and bad EVERYwhere. There is good to be gathered from any situation, and there are good and caring and supportive people wherever you find yourself. Public schools, private schools, etc, are not the end of the world as we know it. Choose. Choose wisely. But know that another's choice is not a slap on your own.

[6packofun]

I think that what Joanne is talking about is a double standard of sorts that gets very tiring. I don't notice a whole lot of "public schools suck!" comments, but I do see a whole lot of unnecessary follow-up comments to those who post in strong favor of homeschooling or someone's choice to pull their children out of school (being *supportive, no less) reminding everyone again and again and again that it's OK to choose public school, just so everyone is aware that not all public schools are evil, etc., a fact that as pretty intelligent folks we ARE aware of.

 

BUT, as soon as someone declares that they are no longer homeschooling, for any reason (maybe more especially because of burnout, negative circumstances, etc.), and the parent is even disappointed by that outcome, the main support received is that public schools are perfectly fine, my kids are in there and doing grrrrreat!! And I think many walk a very fine line to be sure they're not TOO disappointed for them and may not try to convince them to continue homeschooling in the face of great obstacles because there will probably be those disclaimer comments.

 

Or, when there's trouble and difficulty, the odds are that putting the kiddos into school is going to squeeze out the continue-to-homeschool-with-some-changes option in the replies. That's just the makeup of the board nowadays, I guess. I can see how that's discouraging to some, though.

 

Maybe it's a subtle difference to some, but it's garingly obvious to those of us who homeschool in part as a reaction to what the alternative is.

 

I hear what you're saying about framing it in a pro-homeschooling form rather than anti-PS and totally agree. And yet, the comments that follow a pro-homeschooling post/reply continue. It really reminds me of the "Not that there's anything *wrong* with that..." disclaimers that George and Jerry made sure to throw into every conversation that mentioned someone being gay in that one episode of Seinfeld. LOL (And I'm talking about the perceived *need* to say it, NOT making a comparison of these two issues!! )

 

I don't know if this made any sense, but it's what I tend to see. It doesn't upset me that much because I never considered this a homeschooling only board. But it's less friendly for homeschoolers who love and want to encourage others in that, IMO.

Edited January 4, 2009 by 6packofun
..

[pqr]

There are some truisms out there that, for a variety of reasons, most people will not state, and certainly will not post. These are things that we know to be right but a misguided sense of propriety prevents us from admitting, even to ourselves. Like some other posters, I say what I think.

 

In my opinion:

 

1. PSs in the US are, in the main, a disaster. As Shakespeare (who is frequently no longer taught in PS) might have said, they are "Infirm of purpose!"

 

2. HSing is not for everyone, but it certainly is for me and mine. My wife stays at home in order to give my children the best education possible. We spend whatever money is necessary and as much time as we have on our children's education. The failure of PSs to deliver both moral and intellectual education means that I can not and would not put my children in those places (yes I know that there are exceptions, but we are talking of the preponderance of schools). We have been let down by a system that refuses to teach and refuses discipline and I would hope that on this board, of all places, I, or any other poster, could say that without being told to be nice. Being able to comment on PSs is also, for those refugees from the system, a cathartic experience.

 

3. If people are offended by these views I am sorry, but in an environment that is supposed to encourage free discourse, this should be of lesser importance than the ability to express one's views. If there is a sense of guilt, among some, because they send their children to PSs then again I am sorry but this must be based on their, not my beliefs.

 

In short, many PSs in the States are terrible. We know this to be true and I trust that we may, with great sadness, continue to state this, unfortunately, immutable fact.

Edited January 4, 2009 by pqr

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

I'd really love to have somewhere that I could go and say that I really think hsing is the best educational option out there for most children and not be criticized for saying it.I say that knowing that my children may someday decide they want to go to ps and if they do, I will let them go.I feel like I have to be so careful not to offend anyone,on the computer,IRL, that I can't be as enthusiastic about hsing as I'd like to be.

I'd love to be able to go somewhere else besides the privacy of my own home and ask if something that doesn't seem quite right about my local ps is a little off kilter without being made to feel like I'm "bashing" ps in general.I'm really trying hard not to do it,much.

I've been hsing for 9 years and I believe in it as much or more than when I did when I started.And I'm tired of having to pretend that that part of my life has to stay hidden behind closed doors most of the time.

 

But I guess my point is, you are only accountable for the choices you make for YOUR children. I'm accountable for mine. And Bee, frankly I can't imagine you would EVER post anything, "Pam, I really think homeschooling is the best thing for your children. Please justify to me why you are sending your 5 y/o (and indeed, your other children when they were 5) into the Den of Iniquity."

 

You just wouldn't. And I don't come on here and tell people that their curriculum choices stink, nor do I (or anyone else who uses institutional schools, that I know of) come on and wax rhapsodical about the joys and successes and relative merits of institutional schooling as superior to home schooling. (It isn't, btw, as a general statement. It might be at one time or another for a specific child, or it might be the other way around. It certainly isn't for us, just now, but we "do" public kindergarten in our family, and we choose year by year for each child, weighing all the merits and demerits of each choice.)

 

Do you really feel you can't celebrate and gush about how wonderful homeschooling is here? Do you really feel people here get offended when you are enthusiastic? Because that would, indeed, be very hard.

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

If there is a sense of guilt, among some, because they send their children to PSs then again I am sorry but this must be based on their, not my beliefs.

 

 

No guilt here. I live deliberately.

[Colleen]

But then it sounds to me that what you're saying is that not only do you have a different opinion about what is a valid reason for homeschooling (i.e. you don't think that a general negative view of public schools is valid-- you think it's "rude"), but you also feel that other views should not be stated, and that it is acceptable (or even right!) to point them out as being faulty whenever they are posted.

 

Well, Erica, I'm sorry that it sounds that way to you, because that's not an accurate distillation of what I've said here. Yes, I think casting aspersions against an entire system ~ ANY system ~ and the individuals within that system is rude (not to mention illogical). I'm sure you wouldn't appreciate such expressions directed toward church-goers or homeschoolers, for example.

 

I did not say that other views shouldn't be stated. On the contrary, I said: "Does that mean no one ever will, or ever should, refer to their displeasure with the educational system or their dissatisfaction with their experiences there? Of course not."

 

Let me repeat in the hopes that you'll try to hear me objectively: "(T)there are ways to support homeschooling and share concerns about schools without devolving into discussions which deride schools and nothing more."

 

My previous posts don't propose a suppression of other views; they don't express a belief that other views should be pointed to as faulty each time they're shared. Please do not put words into my mouth.

 

You may disagree with a particular philosophy of homeschooling, but I don't think it makes it necessary or good to point out one's disagreement every time someone posts something reflecting a different philosophy.

 

And it isn't. Disagreement isn't pointed out every time one expresses consternation with the schools. But as I said (I'm a broken record here) discussions that are simply bandwagon rants about schools don't (imo) serve the purpose of supporting homeschooling.

Edited January 5, 2009 by Colleen

[pqr]

pqr stated "If there is a sense of guilt, among some, because they send their children to PSs then again I am sorry but this must be based on their, not my beliefs."

 

 

No guilt here. I live deliberately.

 

 

Pam having read your posts, I would never think anything else about you:-)

 

The fact remains that many people with whom we discuss HSing make the comment "I would never have the time" or "I wish I could do it but I just do not think I can." These comments, in the discussions we have, evidence guilt. These parents freely admit to the disaster that PSs are but feel helpless and guilty at their inability to do anything.

Edited January 4, 2009 by pqr

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

pqr stated "If there is a sense of guilt, among some, because they send their children to PSs then again I am sorry but this must be based on their, not my beliefs."

 

 

 

 

 

Pam having read your posts, I would never think anything else about you:-)

 

The fact remains that many people with whom we discuss HSing make the comment "I would never have the time" or "I wish I could do it but I just do not think I can." These comments, in the discussions we have, evidence guilt. These parents freely admit to the disaster that PSs are but feel helpless and guilty at their inability to do anything.

 

Ah, well, then we *educate* them! :-) We lend our copy of WTM, even though we know we might not get it back.

 

:D

 

I guess it boils down to being aware of when these comments mean, "Please respect my choices. I'm being polite and self-deprecating so that you won't think I'm disrespecting YOUR choices" and "Oh my goodness. Wouldn't that be amazing? I'd love to homeschool, but I have no idea how that could ever happen."

 

And then, you know, respond accordingly. Be ready always to give an answer to every person who asks you a reason for the decisions that guide you, with meekness and fear. Or something like that.

[JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst]

I think the point is that we are discussing the freedom to express our displeasure with an institution with which most homeschoolers find fault. In an environment such as a homeschooling board you should be able to feel safe in expressing such an opinion without having to make exceptions and apologies in advance for your comment.

 

I don't make advance caveats and apologies for my religious beliefs, the neighborhoods I choose to live in or the cars I purchase or any other major life decision. This is no different.

 

I'm sure that many people consider this board a refuge from critical family, friends and neighbors and shouldn't have to apologize for general commentary on an issue such as education.

[2cents]

Joanne,

 

I am 100% with you on this one. It is my goal to support/encourage/pray for those who have been hurt inside or outside of ps.

 

We as homeschoolers need support. After all this is a homeschooling board. If person "A" comes in and says how hurt/discouraged she is as a result of private/public schooling, we should jump in there to encourage her instead of pointing out "my public school is not like yours and here is the reason why I send my kids to ps" type of thing.

 

Please be sensitive and save that for another thread. With that said and done, I have to say there are lots and lots of encouragers on this board.

 

I am not against ps at all, and am thrilled that public schoolers are visiting this board. Everyone (ps and hs) can glean helpful information from this precious website. It has been a tremendous source of help and encouragement to me.

 

I agree with this! When I first started hsing, I tended to see things very good vs. bad...the bad being the ps. Now I've mellowed over many years of hsing and I can see that there are pros and cons to either choice depending mostly on the parents (as either simply parents or as both parent and educator). Now, I make my judgements based on what would work for each individual family unit instead of automatically assuming hsing is best or that ps is inferior somehow. I've seen some pretty awful hsing examples in my experiences and some pretty good ps outcomes...which just proves to my own satisfaction that keeping a very open mind is probably the safest route and to each his own. ;) But while I would like to see everyone be able to post freely, that comes with the risk that people will comment..good or bad and will be potentially critical or defensive.

Edited January 5, 2009 by 2cents

[pqr]

. Be ready always to give an answer to every person who asks you a reason for the decisions that guide you, with meekness and fear. Or something like that.

 

Many many times lending WTM and generally getting it back.

 

It may be a failing of mine, but just as you live "deliberately", I have never done anything, with regard to my fellow man, with "meekness" in my life and I try not do do it with "fear".

 

(Yes I am aware of the allusion).

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

It may be a failing of mine, but just as you live "deliberately", I have never done anything, with regard to my fellow man, with "meekness" in my life and I try not do do it with "fear".

 

(Yes I am aware of the allusion).

 

I'm surprised. I would have thought that would be an important tenant for you, knowing you just the little bit I do from your postings.

 

(And golly, that sounds rude. I'm not criticizing. I'm just surprised.)

Edited January 5, 2009 by Pam "SFSOM" in TN

[Colleen]

I guess it boils down to being aware of when these comments mean, "Please respect my choices. I'm being polite and self-deprecating so that you won't think I'm disrespecting YOUR choices" and "Oh my goodness. Wouldn't that be amazing? I'd love to homeschool, but I have no idea how that could ever happen." And then, you know, respond accordingly.

 

I would never presume that a comment to the effect of "I don't think I could homeschool" is an admission of guilt on the part of the speaker. Many, many people who send their children to school offer kind remarks such as "Good for you!" or "I wouldn't have the patience." or some such. It is essentially their way of being kind. Rarely do I intuit that they genuinely have an interest in or desire to home educate their child(ren). And never do I sense that they feel the least bit guilty (nor should they) for the educational choices they're making.

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

I think the point is that we are discussing the freedom to express our displeasure with an institution with which most homeschoolers find fault. In an environment such as a homeschooling board you should be able to feel safe in expressing such an opinion without having to make exceptions and apologies in advance for your comment.

 

I don't make advance caveats and apologies for my religious beliefs, the neighborhoods I choose to live in or the cars I purchase or any other major life decision. This is no different.

 

I'm sure that many people consider this board a refuge from critical family, friends and neighbors and shouldn't have to apologize for general commentary on an issue such as education.

 

I think no one need apologize for any of those things. Quite the contrary.

 

I just don't understand why when one person says, "I had no idea that it was commonplace for 7 y/o's to simulate sexual activity in the classroom in public schools" and another person replies, "Well, no, I don't think it's commonplace at all and here's why," why this is a Very Bad Reply.

[Cheryl in NM]

I've got to say that "bashing" gets one nowhere. I try to maintain a positive attitude, but I know that I don't allow ds to go to ps because of the drugs and violence in the school systems we are near. That said, if we were near an excellent school system ds would be attending. I love homeschooling, but I think there are positives to a ps experience...to some extent. I don't hate ps, but I do notice that most ps I hear about have problems with lack of discipline, drugs, violence and sex. It makes me sad and I know it does not represent the real world that ds would live in so he doesn't need to be exposed to it.

 

This is a homeschooling board, but SWB has offered choices for parents who send their kids to ps also. I think we should consider other's feelings and make sure that our posts actually have relevance and that we aren't bashing just to vent.

[Colleen]

(A)s soon as someone declares that they are no longer homeschooling, for any reason (maybe more especially because of burnout, negative circumstances, etc.), and the parent is even disappointed by that outcome, the main support received is that public schools are perfectly fine, my kids are in there and doing grrrrreat!! And I think many walk a very fine line to be sure they're not TOO disappointed for them and may not try to convince them to continue homeschooling in the face of great obstacles because there will probably be those disclaimer comments.

 

Yes, I agree with you here. There has been, and continues to be, a decrease in the encouragement to continue homeschooling in the face of challenges. One thing I wish people would realize is that the most encouraging, beneficial place to visit here if you're looking for support in homeschooling older students is the high school board. Whereas the general board has a more diverse crowd in terms of educational choices, the regular posters on the high school board tend to be ~ surprise! ~ homeschooling high schoolers.

 

I hear what you're saying about framing it in a pro-homeschooling form rather than anti-PS and totally agree. And yet, the comments that follow a pro-homeschooling post/reply continue. It really reminds me of the "Not that there's anything *wrong* with that..." disclaimers that George and Jerry made sure to throw into every conversation that mentioned someone being gay in that one episode of Seinfeld.

 

:D I always appreciate a Seinfeldian point of reference.:D

[Danestress]

Because it is a *homeschooling* board. Support for homeschooling - including an anti public/private school sentiment - should be expected and allowed.

 

I've never experienced any of the administrators not allowing anti-school comments or other posters advocating for such comments to be banned.

 

Maybe to you when someone disagrees it feels like your comment wasn't "allowed" to just stand unchallenged? I think when you are with a "well trained mind" crowd, you sort of have to expect that people will discuss and debate rather than pretend that a certain comment reflects everyone's experience because to say otherwise my hurt someone's feelings.

Edited January 5, 2009 by Danestress

[hornblower]

I never considered this a homeschooling only board. But it's less friendly for homeschoolers who love and want to encourage others in that, IMO.

 

 

I agreed with everything you said but this esp. I think this is the key. Joanne, I get what you're saying. I really do.

 

But I think if you approach this board as not a homeschooling board, things fall into place better. I found it helped to say to myself a couple hundred times this is not a homeschooling board; it's a board on which some people homeschool for some time.

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

 

Yes, I agree with you here. There has been, and continues to be, a decrease in the encouragement to continue homeschooling in the face of challenges. One thing I wish people would realize is that the most encouraging, beneficial place to visit here if you're looking for support in homeschooling older students is the high school board. Whereas the general board has a more diverse crowd in terms of educational choices, the regular posters on the high school board tend to be ~ surprise! ~ homeschooling high schoolers.

 

 

And should one be looking for support for supplementing an institutional education or even just support for being IN an institutional school setting, let me recommend the Afterschooling Board. :D

[sassenach]

I think some people are sticklers for that particular issue (among others) because they see the "us against them" mentality as part of a certain image of homeschoolers.

 

They dont' want to be associated with the vision of homeschoolers as cultish, isolated, radical, anti-public school people. So they are vocally "live and let live".

 

Just a thought. Not my own case.

 

Bingo! My thoughts exactly.

[Karenciavo]

As Pam said, this isn't just a homeschooling forum, it's a Guide to Classical Education at Home Forum and the General Board is for all members.

[Karenciavo]

I just don't understand why when one person says, "I had no idea that it was commonplace for 7 y/o's to simulate sexual activity in the classroom in public schools" and another person replies, "Well, no, I don't think it's commonplace at all and here's why," why this is a Very Bad Reply.

 

Agree :tongue_smilie: I wanted the brain bleach after that one.

[Cindyg]

Many of us have had very painful public school experiences, either as students ourselves, or as parents.

 

Or as TEACHERS! Let's not forget those of us who were there as teachers and resolved not to send our little ones there!

[Doran]

I appreciate *your* history here, and I understand, I think, the gist of what you are asking. Regardless of whether I agree or disagree with it, I wonder, do you think your request is realistic? Should those who disagree [strongly] with a sweeping generalization about the Ultimate Failure of Public Schools just sit quietly by in non-reply? And, even if they should, will they? How often do you stand up for or against a particularly strong opinion with regard to parenting styles? Do you sit quietly by in non-reply?

 

Maybe it's a little like natural childbirth. You don't want someone offering you feel-good drugs right when you hit transition and are apt to sell every last word of your birth plan along with your laboring soul to the highest bidder. You need all those people to just shut the...up. Often - generally - they don't. So, you're left weighing the odds at the worst possible moment. Hopefully, though, you're smart enough to look to those on your team who will help you stick to your plan, the one you committed to paper when the going was good, despite the fact that there are more conventional voices in the delivery room.

 

We are a diverse population here, with an array of experiences. This site is dedicated to being "A Guide to Classical Education at Home". It remains so whether there are proponents for public/private schooling or not.

[astrid]

I think though it is possible for someone to be pro-homeschooling without having to blame everything wrong with society on public schools. The biggest issue with public schools is bad parenting, parents who don't give a da*m about what is going on in their children's lives, who expect to wash their hands of any parenting once their child hits 5 and can go through those big doors. I am not a supporter of public schools as a whole, but to blame the schools themselves as a reason kids are messed up is a far reach. That's like blaming the gun for killing another person. The schools are simply a tool and in the wrong hands a danger, but in and of themselves are benign. I do not think recognizing that makes anyone pro-ps, nor does it give cause for chastizing others for having a view opposing yours.

 

 

:iagree::iagree:

I couldn't agree more!

 

astrid

[Erica in PA]

 

Well, Erica, I'm sorry that it sounds that way to you, because that's not an accurate distillation of what I've said here. Yes, I think casting aspersions against an entire system ~ ANY system ~ and the individuals within that system is rude (not to mention illogical). I'm sure you wouldn't appreciate such expressions directed toward church-goers or homeschoolers, for example.

 

I did not say that other views shouldn't be stated. On the contrary, I said: "Does that mean no one ever will, or ever should, refer to their displeasure with the educational system or their dissatisfaction with their experiences there? Of course not."

 

Let me repeat in the hopes that you'll try to hear me objectively: "(T)there are ways to support homeschooling and share concerns about schools without devolving into discussions which deride schools and nothing more."

 

My previous posts don't propose a suppression of other views; they don't express a belief that other views should be pointed to as faulty each time they're shared. Please do not put words into my mouth.

 

 

 

And it isn't. Disagreement isn't pointed out every time one expresses consternation with the schools. But as I said (I'm a broken record here) discussions that are simply bandwagon rants about schools don't (imo) serve the purpose of supporting homeschooling.

 

Then I don't see how your posts relate to the OP. The point was, why cannot those who have problems with public schools in general (and not just a bad experience with their own local school, which you have mentioned several times) express that view without critique from those who not only disagree with that sentiment, but consider such expression here on this board to be rude (and post to that end when such comments are made)? I can see by your tone that we're unlikely to make any further progress on this, so I will leave it at that.

[Erica in PA]

And Bee, frankly I can't imagine you would EVER post anything, "Pam, I really think homeschooling is the best thing for your children. Please justify to me why you are sending your 5 y/o (and indeed, your other children when they were 5) into the Den of Iniquity."

 

You just wouldn't.

 

 

I'm sure she wouldn't... in fact I haven't seen anyone on this board ever do that, and yet, certainly people have taken offense many times at much more general criticism of public schools. That's the point, imo. I do think that most of the time, a comment like "I believe that in general, homeschooling is best," would not go unanswered on this board.

[PiCO]

Perhaps because we were INVITED to?

 

Do you notice that there's an afterschooling portion of this board? Who do folks suspect makes up that particular subset of our population? Why would one think they (we) would come to participate here and then find it pleasant to hear how horrific their (our) choices are?

 

With all respect to Joanne, I'm phasing out my use of this board slowly so the point will surely be moot, but I will be happy to cease commenting on the public school bashing when SWB or another administrator asks me to do so.

 

:iagree:Yeah, what she said.

 

I'm slowly phasing out my board use too, though- so take my opinion with a grain of salt.

 

I don't really care if people bash public schools- I have my eyes wide open in the case of my dds. But the fact is, it's true that not all ps are the same. And there are quite a few people here with some homeschoolers and some institutional schoolers. There are some people whose dhs teach in ps. I am extremely anti- daycare, but I don't bash the people here who run home daycare.

 

I guess I just don't understand why it's a bad thing that the "nice police" jump in and say not all ps are bad. The nice police jump in on everything else, after all.:001_huh:

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

Then I don't see how your posts relate to the OP. The point was, why cannot those who have problems with public schools in general (and not just a bad experience with their own local school, which you have mentioned several times) express that view without critique from those who not only disagree with that sentiment, but consider such expression here on this board to be rude (and post to that end when such comments are made)? I can see by your tone that we're unlikely to make any further progress on this, so I will leave it at that.

 

I would imagine because it's a discussion forum, not a soapbox. Though I certainly don't personally have issues with folks using it as a soapbox. It's just that unless one has the to power to lock a thread after posting, one should reasonably expect both agreement and disagreement in the answers one receives.

[lionfamily1999]

I think some people are sticklers for that particular issue (among others) because they see the "us against them" mentality as part of a certain image of homeschoolers.

 

They dont' want to be associated with the vision of homeschoolers as cultish, isolated, radical, anti-public school people. So they are vocally "live and let live".

 

Just a thought. Not my own case.

 

Why is support of anti public/private school sentiment necessary for support of homeschooling? I've said it before. This is just another extension of the mommy wars. It's not helpful. It's divisive.

 

Maybe to you when someone disagrees it feels like your comment wasn't "allowed" to just stand unchallenged? I think when you are with a "well trained mind" crowd, you sort of have to expect that people will discuss and debate rather than pretend that a certain comment reflects everyone's experience because to say otherwise my hurt someone's feelings.

 

I guess I just don't understand why it's a bad thing that the "nice police" jump in and say not all ps are bad. The nice police jump in on everything else, after all.:001_huh:

:iagree:

Is it that people are not allowed to disagree, should some generalized ps bashing be at hand? I must say, in my short time here, I've never seen anyone attack someone for a personal experience in ps, that was related with hopes of support. I have seen some... what I would consider questionable, responses to general questions about raising kids, sports and what have you, but never following the personal experience of a parent. That being said, when things are posted as a direct attack to public schools and then extended to cover all public schools (see one case used to show what 'must' go on at all schools), then responses should be expected. JMO

[LNC]

I deleted my post.

 

I'm irritated and it just isn't worth it...

Edited January 5, 2009 by LNC

[Erica in PA]

I would imagine because it's a discussion forum, not a soapbox. Though I certainly don't personally have issues with folks using it as a soapbox. It's just that unless one has the to power to lock a thread after posting, one should reasonably expect both agreement and disagreement in the answers one receives.

 

Oh my... you're misunderstanding my post to Colleen, Pam. I wasn't addressing agreement/disagreement with the OP.

[OnTheBrink]

I've got to say that "bashing" gets one nowhere. I try to maintain a positive attitude, but I know that I don't allow ds to go to ps because of the drugs and violence in the school systems we are near. That said, if we were near an excellent school system ds would be attending. I love homeschooling, but I think there are positives to a ps experience...to some extent. I don't hate ps, but I do notice that most ps I hear about have problems with lack of discipline, drugs, violence and sex. It makes me sad and I know it does not represent the real world that ds would live in so he doesn't need to be exposed to it.

 

This is a homeschooling board, but SWB has offered choices for parents who send their kids to ps also. I think we should consider other's feelings and make sure that our posts actually have relevance and that we aren't bashing just to vent.

 

I agree. And I think it applies to every topic discussed here, be it education, religion, or what's for dinner.

[Colleen]

Then I don't see how your posts relate to the OP.

 

Ummm...okay. Joann said she "firmly believe(s) that "we" should be able to come to a specific, dedicated board about homeschooling and be able to express an anti public (or private) school bias without being ticketed by the "nice police"." I said in response that I see this as a place where we should be able to support one another in our homeschooling endeavours without railing against the alternatives. I said that I don't believe discussions which only serve to deride schools (that is, discussions whose sole purpose is, as Joann suggested, to express an anti-school bias) are particularly useful. That was my thought in response to Joann. And since it was my thought in response to Joann's thoughts, they relate to her original post.

 

Clearly, judging by your tone and words, you not only disagree with me but feel my opinion doesn't belong here in the first place. You're wrong. I was responding directly to Joann, agreeing in part with her, and offering additional thoughts on the subject.

[Spy Car]

I didn't think we agreed about much on this forum, but I did think one underlying principle that seemed to hold was we all paid a lot of respect to the idea that parents should have their say in determining what sort of education is good for their children.

 

So shouldn't we respect (and support) the parents who homeschool? And should we not respect the choices of those who decide to enroll their children in public and private schools as well? Don't those parents deserve the same respect for their freedom of choice?

 

Seems only decent to me.

 

Bill

[newbie]

I didn't think we agreed about much on this forum, but I did think one underlying principle that seemed to hold was we all paid a lot of respect to the idea that parents should have their say in determining what sort of education is good for their children.

 

So shouldn't we respect (and support) the parents who homeschool? And should we not respect the choices of those who decide to enroll their children in public and private schools as well? Don't those parents deserve the same respect for their freedom of choice?

 

Seems only decent to me.

 

Bill

 

Well said. Go Bill.

[Joanne]

I didn't think we agreed about much on this forum, but I did think one underlying principle that seemed to hold was we all paid a lot of respect to the idea that parents should have their say in determining what sort of education is good for their children.

 

So shouldn't we respect (and support) the parents who homeschool? And should we not respect the choices of those who decide to enroll their children in public and private schools as well? Don't those parents deserve the same respect for their freedom of choice?

 

Seems only decent to me.

 

Bill

 

My OP does not suggest or imply not offering support for individual family choices. I, personally, have been respectful in those circumstances.

 

In fact, I rarely generalize about the so called evils of public schools.

[bkpan]

I didn't think we agreed about much on this forum, but I did think one underlying principle that seemed to hold was we all paid a lot of respect to the idea that parents should have their say in determining what sort of education is good for their children.

 

So shouldn't we respect (and support) the parents who homeschool? And should we not respect the choices of those who decide to enroll their children in public and private schools as well? Don't those parents deserve the same respect for their freedom of choice?

 

Seems only decent to me.

 

Bill

 

 

Yes, :iagree:. Well said.

 

I just can't wrap my head around a perceived need for "support" so that I can disparage all the public schools in general. In fact it could, I think, make me appear fairly insecure in my own choices.

 

Let's really trust that we will each make the best decisions that we are able for our own dc. And be content in that.;)

 

Kim

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

My OP does not suggest or imply not offering support for individual family choices. I, personally, have been respectful in those circumstances.

 

In fact, I rarely generalize about the so called evils of public schools.

 

Nope. Yep. Yep.

 

I'd be hard pressed to find a post of yours that's disrespectful or non-supportive.

[WTMindy]

I didn't think we agreed about much on this forum, but I did think one underlying principle that seemed to hold was we all paid a lot of respect to the idea that parents should have their say in determining what sort of education is good for their children.

 

So shouldn't we respect (and support) the parents who homeschool? And should we not respect the choices of those who decide to enroll their children in public and private schools as well? Don't those parents deserve the same respect for their freedom of choice?

 

Seems only decent to me.

 

Bill

Well said, Bill!!

[Spy Car]

My OP does not suggest or imply not offering support for individual family choices. I, personally, have been respectful in those circumstances.

 

In fact, I rarely generalize about the so called evils of public schools.

 

Not to point a finger at you Joanne (because it would be a finger misdirected) but in that other thread, there was a link to an inflammatory website that implied public schools and public school teachers were like Nazis, and all good "Christians" had to escape them like the British troops at Dunkirk.

 

How offensive was that? Was that tread respectful? I don't think so.

 

My mother was a gifted and dedicated public school teacher, do I like reading some wing-nut who's is trying to link teacher with Nazism? I don't.

 

Being in a majority on this board (or anywhere else) does not excuse failing to act in accordance simple human decency, nor does it give license to spout bigotry.

 

Why anyone who vents their prejudices and finds there is push-back is surprised by that is beyond me.

 

Bill

[Zelda]

Being in a majority on this board (or anywhere else) does not excuse failing to act in accordance simple human decency, nor does it give license to spout bigotry.

 

Why anyone who vents their prejudices and finds there is push-back is surprised by that is beyond me.

 

 

I agree that if one makes a statement of opinion on a forum such as this one should anticipate responses both supportive and otherwise.

 

I don't agree that one doesn't have license to spout anything they like. This general sentiment could apply to the OP. There is room here for people who have serious issues with the public school systems that their tax dollars continue to support even if they do not partake of the services. There is also room for those who would counter their criticism. Neither needs to be silenced. Both need to anticipate arguments against their positions.

[Spy Car]

There is room here for people who have serious issues with the public school systems that their tax dollars continue to support even if they do not partake of the services. There is also room for those who would counter their criticism. Neither needs to be silenced. Both need to anticipate arguments against their positions.

 

I'm not suggesting otherwise. Having criticisms of the public schools (or a particular public school) is a far cry from calling teachers Nazis. One is decent, one is not.

 

I remember a thread where there was a poll where we were to ascribe the insult towards school children we felt was most appropriate. Was that respectful? I didn't think so, but I was told it was all light-hearted fun.

 

I have no idea who Joy Behar is (do I have the name right?) but the woman evidently made some stupid remark about home-schoolers and the roof nearly went off this place. So her bigotry is insulting, but...

 

I'm not for silencing people, but folks who say stupid and hurtful things shouldn't be surprised if they aren't met with universal approval.

 

Bill

Edited January 5, 2009 by Spy Car

[Nestof3]

:cheers2:

 

This IS a homeschooling board, right? I wouldn't frequent and post on a forum for those who aim to be organizational or neat freaks and then criticize them and wonder why they aren't more laid back.

 

There are so many forums to choose from out there. Each person has to find the fit for him/her.

[Spy Car]

 

This IS a homeschooling board, right?

 

I guess that's a point of contention Dawn.

 

From what I understand this is a forum for individuals interested in "Classical Education at home", and is inclusive of home-schoolers, after-schoolers, and people who want to advance their own adult education.

 

Bill

[Leah]

Several have mentioned this, and it really is key.

 

I truly understand the desire to have a place to talk about your life decisions and feel affirmation and agreement.

 

Don't we all want that, even in areas outside of homeschooling? It is tough to find a place that doesn't question things like this. I find that if I do find a place that never questions my perspectives, I don't really want to be there for too long since I want to be questioned and challenged.

 

The great thing about an internet community is that I only open myself up for challenges when I decide to post my ideas-so it is usually far less intense than face to face community that can call me on stuff that I do and say, or even don't do or say!

 

I don't think there is any way around the fact that this in not at all a "pro-homeschooling, anti-institutional" forum. Of course, I realize that I see this from my own perspective as a non-homeschooling, non-parent (!), lurker, some time poster.

[Zelda]

I'm not suggesting otherwise. Having criticisms of the public schools (or a particular public school) is a far cry from calling teachers Nazis. One is decent, one is not.

 

I remember a thread where there was a poll where we were to ascribe the insult towards school children we felt was most appropriate. Was that respectful? I didn't think so, but I was told it was all light-hearted fun.

 

I have no idea who Joy Behar is (do I have the name right?) but the woman evidently made some stupid remark about home-schoolers and the roof nearly went off this place. So her bigotry is insulting, but...

 

I'm not for silencing people, but folks who say stupid and hurtful things shouldn't be surprised if they aren't met with universal approval.

 

Bill

 

When you said one did not have license to say things that are disrespectful or indecent, as you define those standards, it implies that those things should not be allowed.

 

Is wing-nut respectful?

 

The way the terms "Nazi" and "Joy Behar" are slung around these days they've both lost a lot of the negative resonance that the original bearers of the names once inspired.

[Peek a Boo]

But I think if you approach this board as not a homeschooling board, things fall into place better. I found it helped to say to myself a couple hundred times this is not a homeschooling board; it's a board on which some people homeschool for some time.

 

that's a good way to put it :)

 

So shouldn't we respect (and support) the parents who homeschool? And should we not respect the choices of those who decide to enroll their children in public and private schools as well? Don't those parents deserve the same respect for their freedom of choice?

 

Seems only decent to me.

 

no, I don't think I need to respect any and everyone's decisions to school their children just to fit someone else's ideas of 'decent.' I don't have to respect the homeschooler down the street's lazy attitude, and I don't have to respect anyone else's, lazy or not. And they don't have to respect mine.

3 a: high or special regard : esteem b: the quality or state of being esteemed

 

I think when respect is tossed around so blindly it loses value. Respect is earned, not handed out as an entitlement.

 

i do think there is a difference between being truly respectful vs being simply polite. But since this is a discussion board, there is a lot of room for discussion of differences in opinion as opposed to being simply polite and keeping my mouth shut to the mom i pass in the grocery store or at the park.

 

and as Zelda so aptly put it: Neither needs to be silenced. Both need to anticipate arguments against their positions.

 

and i agree w/ Bill about not expecting Universal approval if you're spouting something stupid, but I've always preferred the Public shunning method over the regulate-the-heck-out-of-it method, lol. ;)

 

who called teachers Nazis??