Failing at Homeschooling/Not cut out for this

[Ting Tang]

This is our fourth year, and every year, I've chosen a new way, materials, etc.  When we started, my little guy wasn't school age.  Now with extracurriculars, the farm business, and four kids in four different grades, I am just struggling.  We have a lot of partial days but rarely make them up. I do make sure my 1st grader completes his curriculum.  I am not just mom/wife.  I feel like I'm teacher, coach, etc.  

I didn't envision having a large bundle of kids I'd homeschool (not that four is a huge bundle), but I don't see how it is possible to educate four children truly well, unless they are self-motivated.  We even combined a few things. Maybe homeschooling is more efficient than regular school, but I don't see how I can keep this up. It gets harder each year.  

I guess that is my rant.  I do want to send at least my oldest back to school.  I just feel like I am trying to squeeze it all in, but truthfully, I started to feel that way into our second year, too, when we still stayed home a lot.  I dunno, it's not really fun. It is just stressful. 

[wendyroo]

I can commiserate with a lot of this.
It has never been particularly fun for me. It has always been very stressful.
But for me, despite that, it has been the right answer for most of my kids.

At this point I have sent two kids to public school.
In one case, it was absolutely the right decision, and he is still there 3 years later. It isn't perfect, but it is somewhat better for him and WAY better for the rest of us.
In the other case, it was probably the right decision in the short term while we regrouped and came up with a new plan, but he will only be staying for one semester before moving to full time dual enrollment. I don't regret sending him to school even though it is not the right place for him long term.

[HomeAgain]

4 kids at 4 different educational and 4 different developmental stages is a lot. And it's not your only pursuit - you are feeling the weight of needing to be everything for everyone at once.

I admire how eloquently you're able to identify your needs here and see the big picture.  So then the question is, what gives so that your life can work?  The farm business?  The extracurriculars?  Some of the schooling?  Adding something instead?  A mother's helper?  Outsourced classes?

 

FWIW, both of mine ended up in school toward the end.  DS14 is better suited in a class of 10 right now than he is at home with me.  I know it.  I'm sad about it, but everyone is thriving so my real feeling is kind of regret for not being "enough" when I was never going to be enough for what he needs right now in his life.  I had too much pulling me in too many directions, and it just wasn't going to be pretty.

[ScoutTN]

It’s not a homeschool fail to put a child in school if that is the best path for him and your family as a whole.

Edited February 24 by ScoutTN

[sweet2ndchance]

I sent ds to public school last school year when I just couldn't do it with him anymore. Now, after two years in ps, I'm ready to talk about bringing him back home. No decision has to be permanent. Take it a year at a time. As long as your children are being educated, in one form or another, it's not a fail. (hugs)

[caffeineandbooks]

This is not the first time you've posted things like this.  I'm curious to know what happens between these posts. 

To a poster who was hitting school goals moderately well for a few months, then being derailed for a week by big feelings or unusual circumstances, I might say "This happens to everyone" and talk about how to get through it.  I have homeschooled through multiple terminal illnesses among our immediate family and a probably related burn out for myself, and I understand the need to give yourself grace and cut back to the basics sometimes.

Gently, I would not take this approach with a poster who was consistently struggling to complete the basics over a period of months and years, and whose "not working" posts reflected the usual atmosphere of their home and not an exception.  I would be more likely to ask what their goals were for their kids, and explore whether other options besides homeschooling might be suitable, even for a short term period or for just some of the kids. 

If you manage to keep your kids home for K-12 but your marriage, family relationships and mental health are harmed and you don't even have the cold comfort that a minimum level of education has been achieved, that sounds like a bad deal to me.

[Ting Tang]

Thank you all so much. I just feel like I’m not living up to my own educational standards. As the kids get older, and my husband needs more help, I don’t feel I can do what I feel I should. Our hodge podge approach was good in the sense  this year we’re reading some good books, but we’re not doing a ton of writing. Or I forget to do their vintage speller. But I do feel if all I had to do was teach them, it’d still feel impossible. Yet nobody wants to go to school. I guess they like it more than me, lol. 

Edited February 24 by Ting Tang

[Classically Minded]

What if you did a year of online learning or boxed curriculum that you didn't have to teach?  I don't know how old your children are but by 5th or 6th grade they should be mostly independent.  I knew a lady that used Christian Liberty Press to homeschool her many children and it seemed to work well for them.

[PeterPan]

Are you taking care of yourself? How is your vitamin d? 

10 hours ago, Ting Tang said:

my husband needs more help,

He has a medical disability or needs to hire help with his business? Some men are terribly oblivious and need to be told straight we are awesome but have limits.

14 hours ago, Ting Tang said:

extracurriculars

You might need to be realistic about this. They could be so valuable you flex the academics. Most people I know with many kids do some streamlining. 
 

 

10 hours ago, Ting Tang said:

I just feel like I’m not living up to my own educational standards

Some of what you’ve described is organization and you need to allow YOURSELF the grace to grow and learn and mess up. You may need to grow at pushing back against unrealistic expectations from yourself or others. Do you say NO to yourself or others? How do you decide those limits? 
 

I would check your d and take some walks in the fresh air. I would pick two things to say no to and see if it eases things a bit. My motto these days is question the accepted. I just find it so easy to go along and accept burdens of how things are, even simple things, and I have to stop and say what if it didn’t have to be tgat way? How could it be? So what if your dh hired someone? What if you added a 2nd dishwasher? What if you took a midwinter break from schooling? What if you did a semester of audiobooks and journaling with tech? What if you dropped all extracurrics for a semester? What if you spent the whole summer doing one or two subjects you feel you neglect and called it writing camp or art camp or whatever? 
 

Give yourself permission to do something nonpermanent but radical. Answer permanent (or harder to change) questions in April /May when the sun comes back and life is better.

 

 

[PeterPan]

9 hours ago, Classically Minded said:

What if you did a year of online learning or boxed curriculum 

Timberdoodle

9 hours ago, Classically Minded said:

I don't know how old your children are but by 5th or 6th grade they should be mostly independent

Hogwash. Some people’s kids are but that’s a slim percentage. We should not be guilting ourselves with this. We can STRUCTURE our kids for success and do checkins, etc. 

Edited February 24 by PeterPan

[PeterPan]

11 hours ago, caffeineandbooks said:

This is not the first time you've posted things like this.  I'm curious to know what happens between these posts. 

To a poster who was hitting school goals moderately well for a few months, then being derailed for a week by big feelings or unusual circumstances, I might say "This happens to everyone" and talk about how to get through it.  I have homeschooled through multiple terminal illnesses among our immediate family and a probably related burn out for myself, and I understand the need to give yourself grace and cut back to the basics sometimes.

Gently, I would not take this approach with a poster who was consistently struggling to complete the basics over a period of months and years, and whose "not working" posts reflected the usual atmosphere of their home and not an exception.  I would be more likely to ask what their goals were for their kids, and explore whether other options besides homeschooling might be suitable, even for a short term period or for just some of the kids. 

If you manage to keep your kids home for K-12 but your marriage, family relationships and mental health are harmed and you don't even have the cold comfort that a minimum level of education has been achieved, that sounds like a bad deal to me.

I love this. Context matters and we can underestimate the effect of simple things like vitamin d running low. 

[Classically Minded]

57 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

Hogwash. Some people’s kids are but that’s a slim percentage. We should not be guilting ourselves with this. We can STRUCTURE our kids for success and do checkins, etc. 

Susan Wise Bauer states this important for independence in her book, Rethinking School, and actually has an entire section on it in chapter 19.  I don't consider that hogwash.  I've also listened to her lectures about this.

I didn't see the original poster saying the children had any delays or learning disabilities but I think that would obviously be an exception if that was the case.

[ScoutTN]

On 2/23/2024 at 10:58 PM, Classically Minded said:

What if you did a year of online learning or boxed curriculum that you didn't have to teach?  I don't know how old your children are but by 5th or 6th grade they should be mostly independent.  I knew a lady that used Christian Liberty Press to homeschool her many children and it seemed to work well for them.

Neither of my kids were anywhere close to independent at that age. And one is an oldest child, girl, who enjoys school, is disciplined and diligent, and was mature for her age. Neither of mine would ever learn from a video - live online works for one, but not the other - and all day on  a screen is not great. 

Do the problem set independently after the lesson, sure. But even corrections require interaction to make sure the mistakes are understood.

Literature and history require discussion in our homeschool. Really everything does. 

Edited March 2 by ScoutTN

[8filltheheart]

23 hours ago, caffeineandbooks said:

This is not the first time you've posted things like this.  I'm curious to know what happens between these posts. 

To a poster who was hitting school goals moderately well for a few months, then being derailed for a week by big feelings or unusual circumstances, I might say "This happens to everyone" and talk about how to get through it.  I have homeschooled through multiple terminal illnesses among our immediate family and a probably related burn out for myself, and I understand the need to give yourself grace and cut back to the basics sometimes.

Gently, I would not take this approach with a poster who was consistently struggling to complete the basics over a period of months and years, and whose "not working" posts reflected the usual atmosphere of their home and not an exception.  I would be more likely to ask what their goals were for their kids, and explore whether other options besides homeschooling might be suitable, even for a short term period or for just some of the kids. 

If you manage to keep your kids home for K-12 but your marriage, family relationships and mental health are harmed and you don't even have the cold comfort that a minimum level of education has been achieved, that sounds like a bad deal to me.

Your post hits all of my thoughts. Not everyone is meant to homeschool.

[Lecka]

A child who has never done something before, and doesn’t know what it will be like, cannot know what they want.  That’s number one.

 

Number two, parents have to show leadership sometimes in making decisions.  I think it’s a balance, but asking a child what they want can be a cop-out sometimes.  It’s just not a good way to make a decision sometimes.

 

It’s okay for you to decide, you are the parent, you have got an entire family with 4 kids to manage!!!!!!!!!  It’s a big deal!!!!!!!  It’s a big job and a lot to take on!!!!!!!!  
 

You can decide to make it work how it will work best overall for everyone, not everyone can have things work out how they want every time.  
 

All that to say, please do what works for you, and your family (through it working for you), not to meet an ideal or please everyone.  
 

You come across as self-sacrificing, and I think it’s a wonderful way to be, but it can also be too much and I think it would be great if you could keep the heart you have but make decisions to take care of yourself, too, and embrace being a leader in your family, I think you are and it’s a good thing!  

Edited February 25 by Lecka

[EKS]

Homeschooling has to work for everyone.  If it's not working for you, it's not working.  There is nothing wrong with trying school for a while.

Note that I found that homeschooling two kids who were six years apart was a full time job.  Homeschooling four would be even more so.

[Classically Minded]

5 hours ago, ScoutTN said:

Neither of my kids we’re anywhere close to independent at that age. And one is an oldest child, girl, who enjoys school, is disciplined and diligent, and was mature for her age. Neither of mine would ever learn from a video - live online works for one, but not the other - and all day on  a screen is not great. 

Do the problem set independently after the lesson, sure. But even corrections require interaction to make sure the mistakes are understood.

Literature and history require discussion in our homeschool. Really everything does. 

That's why homeschooling is great because the children can get that but not in public school.  I think the way SWB laid it out on her book and lectures is an excellent path to strive for to enable the children to be able to do more and ease the burden on the Mom; which is what the original poster is needing.  I understand myself and am going to try and let go of a lot with my son heading into this fall.

[8filltheheart]

21 hours ago, Classically Minded said:

What if you did a year of online learning or boxed curriculum that you didn't have to teach?  I don't know how old your children are but by 5th or 6th grade they should be mostly independent.  I knew a lady that used Christian Liberty Press to homeschool her many children and it seemed to work well for them.

I am another who disagrees with the bolded. Kids deserve actively engaged teachers. My youngest of 8 is an 8th grader.  I have been an involved teacher for the past 30 yrs. (We dont do coops. They have only taken a handful of outsourced classes.)  Independent in completing assignments, yes. But, not independent in teaching themselves content.  And even when they are completing work, I'm there to help. I personally think that kids who are "independent learners" in 5th or 6th grade are receiving a subpar, flat education. In depth learning comes from being able to discuss, be challenged in thinking=interaction with others. 

 

5 minutes ago, Classically Minded said:

That's why homeschooling is great because the children can get that but not in public school.  I think the way SWB laid it out on her book and lectures is an excellent path to strive for to enable the children to be able to do more and ease the burden on the Mom; which is what the original poster is needing.  I understand myself and am going to try and let go of a lot with my son heading into this fall.

The OP has been floundering for a very long time.  I dont think her ds working independently is realistic solution that would solve the numerous issues. I am a huge proponent of homeschooling. But, when it's not working after yrs of trying, it may not be the right choice for a particular family.

[Classically Minded]

1 minute ago, 8filltheheart said:

I am another who disagrees with the bolded. Kids deserve actively engaged teachers. My youngest of 8 is an 8th grader.  I have been an involved teacher for the past 30 yrs. (We dont do coops. They have only taken a handful of outsourced classes.)  Independent in completing assignments, yes. But, not independent in teaching themselves content.  And even when they are completing work, I'm there to help. I personally think that kids who are "independent learners" in 5th or 6th grade are receiving a subpar, flat education. In depth learning comes from being able to discuss, be challenged in thinking=interaction with others. 

 

The OP has been floundering for a very long time.  I dont think her ds working independently is realistic solution that would solve the numerous issues. I am a huge proponent of homeschooling. But, when it's not working after yrs of trying, it may not be the right choice for a particular family.

Thank you for your insight!  I honestly never thought of it that way.  Personally for myself having brain damage and being disabled, I have tried to do everything but this year I have realized I can't.  I'm getting him a self taught science, writing and maybe grammar to help me out.  I do teach history because he struggles for some reason with reading history and comprehension of it.  Math, he has no problem and I'm glad 😂.  He does foreign languages with DVD teacher on one and self taught the other.

I don't know anything about the poster but don't you think public school would actually be the worst move?  It requires a lot out of children and many are left behind with no help.

I do still lean towards what SWB teaches because it sounds good to prepare the children for independence but at the same time I am amazed a few here rebuff that and are so involved in the middle grades and beyond.  I really have to figure this out and what's best for my son.  I know I have limitations but I am trying to give him everything I can of me to help him reach his potential but also have a childhood.  Thanks for listening!

[ScoutTN]

@Classically Minded I have learned plenty from SWB, but she is just one person. There are many, many voices of experience in homeschooling worth listening to - on these boards, in books, and in our irl communities. One size does not fit all.

[JennyD]

1 hour ago, 8filltheheart said:

Kids deserve actively engaged teachers.

Yes yes a thousand times yes to this.  I work with both my 7th and 10th graders for hours every day. 

My 12th grader works more independently but honestly, that's because at this point I have a lot less to teach him.  I still devote several hours a week to working with him one-on-one, though, and I spent dozens of hours last summer designing his courses.

 

Edited February 25 by JennyD

[Mimi50]

You absolutely are not failing your kids. There is awful lot on your plate. Give yourself A break. My son is an adult and went to public school. I nanny for my niece and nephew. Help with my almost 3 year old granddaughter. Because my husband has dementia. I can’t do any classes outside my home. Because these boards I found ways to use free online classes. Used textbooks and keep myself busy. I have math related learning disability that. Requires lots of remedial work and as you can tell. My grammar and writing skills are also affected. Homeschool families are doing great things. For your kids and for me too. If you think it is best to put them back in school. Then you should do that. Be kind and gentle with yourself.

[MiddleCourt]

From your previous posts, you seem to be searching for different curricula and methodologies to be a sort of panacea to your homeschool struggles. From a different perspective, have you considered that you may have a *systems* issue?

My kids are very similar ages to your kids, and we went through a very stressful few years early on in our homeschooling (mainly due to outside issues, but it really impacted our homeschool and it often felt chaotic). I also switched curricula many times to find some relief. I finally realized that life felt unmanageable and stressful because I didn’t have effective systems in place that would help us succeed. And while there are of course struggles that come with the nature of homeschooling multiple children, our days have more peace and also, importantly, I have much more peace about the effectiveness of our schooling.

When I say systems, I mean routines and expectations. My kids know what they can do when they first wake up (no devices of any kind AT ALL, our day will be ruined if I allow them prior to school). Do you have an early riser or an eager learner? Work 1:1 with them while the other kids are still waking up or getting ready. We also have a morning time system, where we all gather together to start our morning off. Do you do this already? You can set the tone for your day and get group learning in. If your kids are all close in age, you can do Bible, history, nature, science, etc. together during this time. You can always have the older kids do some more reading in their individual work. Then we have a system in place where my kids then complete their checklist for their individual work (I do still work with them on most subjects, but they can look at their checklist and know what they can do alone and what they need me for). The kids cannot do XYZ until they’ve finished their checklists. This is school and they have a responsibility to finish it before running off or getting on a device. (It doesn’t have to be every subject every single day, I make it manageable for them to complete).  It has made our days much smoother.

There is also a place for tweaking curriculum. If you are trying to be a CM purist, that can be difficult if you have many kids or your kids can’t do a lot alone. And it’s ok to not do it like the purists say to. You like read alouds and living books? Great- do that part. You’d rather do more structured writing than you’re currently doing with CM methods? Then switch that part to something that serves your child better. If Memoria press was too dry but you like their geography, just do that part from MP.

Also- I think it would be helpful for you to figure out what you want for your son’s education in the few years he has left until high school and go from there. Do you want him to be a strong writer? Focus on writing in 7th and 8th grade. Or whatever your goal is for him to know before high school, work on that. Make it manageable.

And finally, leave margin for you and your kids. It’s ok to say no to extracurriculars. You have posted about them and they are obviously a high priority for you, so you will have to decide what is worth giving up so that you have time for them because you cannot do it all. It’s simply not possible. My family’s “system” when it comes to sports is that we won’t do club sports or anything with a huge time and money commitment when they’re young and in elementary school. It’s worth the peace it brings to our life. Best of luck, I hope you find peace in your decisions.

[JazzyMom]

On 2/24/2024 at 8:38 PM, Classically Minded said:

Thank you for your insight!  I honestly never thought of it that way.  Personally for myself having brain damage and being disabled, I have tried to do everything but this year I have realized I can't.  I'm getting him a self taught science, writing and maybe grammar to help me out.  I do teach history because he struggles for some reason with reading history and comprehension of it.  Math, he has no problem and I'm glad 😂.  He does foreign languages with DVD teacher on one and self taught the other.

I don't know anything about the poster but don't you think public school would actually be the worst move?  It requires a lot out of children and many are left behind with no help.

I do still lean towards what SWB teaches because it sounds good to prepare the children for independence but at the same time I am amazed a few here rebuff that and are so involved in the middle grades and beyond.  I really have to figure this out and what's best for my son.  I know I have limitations but I am trying to give him everything I can of me to help him reach his potential but also have a childhood.  Thanks for listening!

Just to encourage you…. My kids do a lot of their work independently, and that has worked well for our family.

I would not have been able to manage hours of one on one work per child.  I truly admire moms who can do so, but that is beyond my ability.  If my kids depended on me to teach and discuss most things with them, it would have been severely limiting for them.  

Once my kids are reading, I start teaching them how to read directions and learn from a text.  I tell them it’s okay if you get these answers wrong, but I want you to try.  I meet with each one of them once a day to look over their work, correct it, and explain things, as needed.  I do more with a kid who is struggling in a particular area, but independence is the goal.  My 6th and 8th graders are about 80% independent.  My high schooler is 100% independent.  I just check his grades periodically.

My older kids are curious, self-directed learners who know how to teach themselves things I don’t know or have time to learn.  One of my kids is on a national full ride scholarship studying biochemistry.  My current high schooler won a national competition last year in architecture, a subject I know nothing about.  My middle schooler (who has an LD) is trying speech competitions this year and chose a pretty heavy topic that he researched himself.

I choose resources and curricula.  I help keep my kids accountable to a schedule, and in some subjects (like math), I grade their work daily.  Beginning in middle school, they do co-ops for some subjects.  In high school, they take some DE courses and some co-op courses.  Online courses have not been a good fit for us.

We listen to audiobooks and do a few things together, but nothing time consuming.  They like to get up and get started on their work without me - even my 2nd and 4th graders do this.  And we all value leaving space in our day for their hobbies and extracurricular activities.  

I share all that to say, teaching kids to work independently can be good for *some* kids/families.  Not all.  There’s not one right way to homeschool.  You have to find what works for you and your kids.

As for the OP, I felt very overwhelmed with homeschooling after my 4th child was born.  One day I sat down and prayed, “Lord, if You want me to homeschool these kids, You have to show me how to do it.”  God gave me a very simple plan that I still follow 13 years later.  I didn’t know my life would get so much more difficult - since then I’ve had 4 more kids, responsibility for an elderly parent, some hard times and shocking disappointments...  However, even through extremely tough times, we have been able to continue.  

My advice would be to stop looking at what others are doing and pray that God will show you what’s right for you.

I agree with others who say it is okay if you need to put your kids in school.  I have read accounts from homeschoolers who feel their parents did not teach them well, and they have very sad stories.

 

[Classically Minded]

23 minutes ago, JazzyMom said:

Just to encourage you…. My kids do a lot of their work independently, and that has worked well for our family.

I would not have been able to manage hours of one on one work per child.  I truly admire moms who can do so, but that is beyond my ability.  If my kids depended on me to teach and discuss most things with them, it would have been severely limiting for them.  

Once my kids are reading, I start teaching them how to read directions and learn from a text.  I tell them it’s okay if you get these answers wrong, but I want you to try.  I meet with each one of them once a day to look over their work, correct it, and explain things, as needed.  I do more with a kid who is struggling in a particular area, but independence is the goal.  My 6th and 8th graders are about 80% independent.  My high schooler is 100% independent.  I just check his grades periodically.

My older kids are curious, self-directed learners who know how to teach themselves things I don’t know or have time to learn.  One of my kids is on a national full ride scholarship studying biochemistry.  My current high schooler won a national competition last year in architecture, a subject I know nothing about.  My middle schooler (who has an LD) is trying speech competitions this year and chose a pretty heavy topic that he researched himself.

I choose resources and curricula.  I help keep my kids accountable to a schedule, and in some subjects (like math), I grade their work daily.  Beginning in middle school, they do co-ops for some subjects.  In high school, they take some DE courses and some co-op courses.  Online courses have not been a good fit for us.

We listen to audiobooks and do a few things together, but nothing time consuming.  They like to get up and get started on their work without me - even my 2nd and 4th graders do this.  And we all value leaving space in our day for their hobbies and extracurricular activities.  

I share all that to say, teaching kids to work independently can be good for *some* kids/families.  Not all.  There’s not one right way to homeschool.  You have to find what works for you and your kids.

As for the OP, I felt very overwhelmed with homeschooling after my 4th child was born.  One day I sat down and prayed, “Lord, if You want me to homeschool these kids, You have to show me how to do it.”  God gave me a very simple plan that I still follow 13 years later.  I didn’t know my life would get so much more difficult - since then I’ve had 4 more kids, responsibility for an elderly parent, some hard times and shocking disappointments...  However, even through extremely tough times, we have been able to continue.  

My advice would be to stop looking at what others are doing and pray that God will show you what’s right for you.

I agree with others who say it is okay if you need to put your kids in school.  I have read accounts from homeschoolers who feel their parents did not teach them well, and they have very sad stories.

 

Thank you so much for your encouragement!! How timely it was and much needed, thank you for sharing everything you did.

[Carol in Cal.]

It’s February.  Homeschooling, for some reason, always seems to seem hard and overwhelming in February.

[Meriwether]

I am too tired (and stressed lol) to try to be coherent and word things just right, so I apologize in advance if I come across any particular way except showing my thought process for my family. I know what it is like to not live up to my own ideals. I also know what it is like to prioritize an activity.

I am struggling this year. About a third of the girls' subjects are lagging behind where they need to be. Another third are so far behind that I don't know how we could possibly finish this year. This isn't the first year we've struggled. We have been derailed by life events before. But this might be our worst year, redeemable only because I am responsible for two kids instead of five.

Part of the issue with this school year was an active choice by our family. We are very involved with a sport. My husband and kids compete at a pretty high level. Among them they have 5 years on Team USA, 6 world championships, an individual PanAm championship and multiple team ones, dozens and dozens of (multi-state) districts championships, and even more state championships. As of now they have 8 standings in the top ten in the world in their age and rank. I mention that only to show that we are very involved and won't be giving up sport related traved any time soon. This year we chose to go to tournaments in St. Louis, Chicago, Pittsburgh, Fargo, Sioux Falls, and Brazil in the fall. The spring semester has tournaments in Memphis, Minneapolis (x 2), Quincy IL, Lincoln, Sioux City (x 2), Dallas, and St. Louis. Summer has us going to Pheonix. The other big part of the issue was a forced relocation that has been particularly stressful. Although we are now settled into our new house, it is still affecting our school year. We don't have a local place to train, so the kids leave on Monday to drive to our old town. They train Monday evening, stay the night with friends, and then train on Tuesday getting home late Tuesday night. It doesn't make it easy to get a week's worth of school work done each week. I don't get a full day with them on Monday. I can't work with them on Tuesday unless it is over the phone. They are tired on Wednesday.

The girls will both finish math in April. Dd14 will finish science and geogrpahy in April. She will probably finish Spanish in June. I don't know about writing and Bible. Once math, science, and geography are done, she can double up on them. Maybe she can finish them in June? Literature and history are just not going to happen to my satisfaction this year. It will be lost time. We'll get done what we can. I gave up on any fun extras months ago. Dd9 will finish spelling and the Greek alphabet in March. She is, voluntarily, doing a week's worth of Latin in three days now. It is just hard to make up for two months of not knowing where the disc is. German we've just been practicing old vocabulary. I doubt she finishes this year. She will not finish her AWANA book; we haven't found a new church yet. If we double (or triple) up when math is done, maybe she can finish science and writing in May or June. She has read enough that I am not worried about literature, but history is not getting done.

I am not sending kids back to school for at least three reasons:

1) We have good years to balance out bad years. I never get everything done I want to with the kids, but I always want a lot. If I mentally set aside the unrealistic things, the kids have mostly had solid years.

2) History has been bad this year, but it is likely more history than they would get in public school. The other subjects that we aren't doing well with might have been better in ps this year, but not in the balance of their entire education.

3) My kids cooperate. We have had a crummy year for school, but when they are working on it they work. If I say, do a math lesson, they do a math lesson. Occasionally it takes more time than they have to finish it that day (yesterday Dd14 only got part way in on a lesson of word problems before she had to leave), but they sit down and work when it is time to do school.

I have handled unfinished work in various ways. Sometimes I give up on that goal. If a kid wanted to try something, but we just never got to it it got put back on the shelf. Sometimes we work through the summer. If a kid just didn't put in the effort during the school year, they sat with me long hours in the summer and did it until it was done well. Sometimes, if it was an extra, we just restarted it the next year or continued on the following year.

That is basically my though process. Your though process might be different. But there are things that I think should be concerns for most people, red flags to watch for. I would put kids in school for the following reasons:

1) If they got farther behind a standard level every year (except in kids with LD's).

2) If our lifestyle were training the kids to not fulfill their responsibilities (in this case school) because they would rather do something more fun. It is one thing to not do school when everyone is working on setting up the house after a move and another to not do school regularly because no one feels like doing it.

3) If I was the only one trying. If I told a kid to sit down and do math and they didn't, I would be teaching them to disregard my instructions and that it was okay to disobey. I value my kids' character development even more than their academics, so that just isn't going to fly. (The kids call me a pushover, so I am not talking about abject servility here. They often ask for and get an extra chapter of read aloud before starting school. They can elect to go get the mail or do other short tasks between subjects for a break. They can get lunch when it suits them. But time for school is time for school and I don't fight to get them to their desks.)

[Meriwether]

On the subject of kids working independently, kids deserve interaction even if they can work independently. My oldest was very independent and preferred to work alone from very young. I allowed that because she was so very capable and my next needed so much support. But it wasn't ideal. I regret it now. I have put in 12+ hour days with kids (they all had breaks!) so that I could give each kid the time they needed, and I don't regret that at all.

[JazzyMom]

6 hours ago, Meriwether said:

On the subject of kids working independently, kids deserve interaction even if they can work independently. My oldest was very independent and preferred to work alone from very young. I allowed that because she was so very capable and my next needed so much support. But it wasn't ideal. I regret it now. I have put in 12+ hour days with kids (they all had breaks!) so that I could give each kid the time they needed, and I don't regret that at all.

I agree with you that kids deserve interaction.  I definitely don’t send my kids off with a stack of books saying, sit here for hours and don’t bother me.  We interact with each other all day long, it’s just not always related to school.  We are mostly done with school by morning, and my kids are busy with art, reading, crafts, playtime, games, cooking, hobbies.  My older boys have bball, speech club, work, etc.  (My 8th grader likes to do math before bed, so he has more free time during the day.)  My younger ones like to get up, get school done, and play. We also like field trips, park days, soccer, etc.

There are a lot of homeschoolers here who are either extremely knowledgeable and/or do a great job of learning alongside their kids.  I’m not one of them.

One of my regrets is not outsourcing for my eldest child sooner.  Instead of spending time with me trying to learn physics or relearn calculus, he could have benefited from having a knowledgeable teacher who could answer his questions with certainty, identify any gaps in understanding, and actually bring/math science to life. 

I outsourced with the next 2 and they did so much more than my eldest did at their ages and had so many enriching experiences - science fair, mock trial, debate, etc.

I have found that I am good at giving my kids a solid foundation, helping them love learning, teaching them how to learn, feeding their interests, and seeking out resources and activities.  I am not a great teacher for middle school and beyond.

Also, my kids don’t want me to spend hours per day teaching them. A typical day for my 10th grader is up in the morning to do a few hours of schoolwork, off to DE courses, bball practice and weight training.  Home for dinner, and depending on the day, he’ll hang out with us, go work as a referee, work on a project, etc.  It’s fun for me to hear about things he is learning and doing that I’m not involved in.  And of course, I would definitely help if he had any needs.

I actually do think it is great to have a home where parent and kids are busy with school for 8 - 10 - 12 hours a day.  I just don’t think that is ideal for *all* families, and I think kids can still have a homeschool experience even if their parents aren’t using the best materials or the best method, as long as what they are doing is working well for their family.

Seems that OP has not found a system that works well for her and her kids.

Edited February 27 by JazzyMom

[seemesew]

On 2/23/2024 at 8:45 PM, Ting Tang said:

Thank you all so much. I just feel like I’m not living up to my own educational standards. As the kids get older, and my husband needs more help, I don’t feel I can do what I feel I should. Our hodge podge approach was good in the sense  this year we’re reading some good books, but we’re not doing a ton of writing. Or I forget to do their vintage speller. But I do feel if all I had to do was teach them, it’d still feel impossible. Yet nobody wants to go to school. I guess they like it more than me, lol. 

Have you considered letting go of what you think they NEED to do? You are reading good books so why does the writing matter to you? (rhetorical question here), I grew up doing very little school, and while its not a path I've chosen in my homeschool, it also wasn't a bad way! We owned our own business and us kids worked a few hours a day at it and read lots of books. all of my siblings are successful, some own their own businesses and do very well, some have college degrees, some have certificates for certain studies, but all are succeeding at whatever they have chosen. Yeah we were all behind in math and writing but we caught up with what we wanted for our goals really fast.

I'm not saying this to persuade you to unschool but consider what owning a business and having your kids help in it IS teaching them! You don't have to feel bad that they aren't doing things like you think should be done. There are many ways to homeschool and none are better than another but some fit others more.

I guess what I am saying is, consider if what you feel is missing in your homeschool really matters to you or if there are other things that matter more.

[countrymum]

Yes, yes to systems. I have checklists for my oldest 3. If it's not done it's "homework" you do it in the evening, on Saturday, whenever, but you do it. If it's all done by the end of the day you get a "school treat" currently a chocolate kiss. 

Also look at what needs to be done. Sit down with your oldest and have a talk. Involved him. Look as homeschoolers we must cover XYZ the state says so. Choice is do it here or go to school for 8 hrs a day 5 days a week and bring homework home. I'll bet he can do it unless time at home. Self discipline is hard to learn but child has to want to learn it..... we've been there this year;) Growing up is work!

[Langell0002]

Nothing to add, just hugs.  I was so stressed out with one, just one kid, and being pregnant, that I sent my daughter to the fanciest private school around, because I was overwhelmed with thinking I wasn't doing enough.  Turned out that highly rated super advanced private school was about two years behind what we were doing.  My expectations were so high with my first!  Be gentle with yourself and kids, find systems to work with, and give yourself grace. 

[AnneGG]

Thinking of you Ting. Hope you can settle on a plan and find some peace.

[Ting Tang]

Thank you all.  I've sort of accepted that this year is...just kind of a bust in some ways, at least per my standards.  I have purchased nothing for next year because I really do not know what I want to do for them.  I've been researching, but I feel like I am back to looking for the savior of a curriculum, lol. A big reason for not sending them to school is all the germs. It sounds silly, but it's true.  We still live nextdoor to my MIL, who is going through Chemo, and we get enough germs as it is...

 

[PeterPan]

On 3/14/2024 at 8:02 PM, Ting Tang said:

We still live nextdoor to my MIL, who is going through Chemo, a

Some years the *lesson* is not what we thought was going to be the lesson. Going through chemo is a big deal and it might be you kind of shift modes and embrace that as being ok. You wouldn't do that every year for 13 years, lol., but for one year absolutely it's ok. 

The germ thing is hard. I'm at a place in my life where it seems like EVERY TIME I get in someone's germs I get them. And I end up on antibiotics, which I suppose shorten my life and all the other jazz I read. I think I might be cautious about altering your kids' lives over germs only because well they're kids. They're not in the house with her. They can visit her outside maybe or skype. I would probably protect them a bit to make sure they have all the socializing they need, etc. If you alter *yourself* that's different because you're the adult. 

And maybe that deserves it's own thread, but it's just my two cents. It's not actually that hard not to get sick even when in tight quarters. I've had multiple occasions in the past calendar year where I was sharing tight quarters with someone and they DID NOT GET covid even when I did. Now if someone brings anything around me, I'm a virus magnet. But for other people, hygiene and a bit of space, not sharing water, not kissing, washing hands, giving just a bit of space, basic things go a surprising way. Your kids could bring something home from school and *not* make you sick if you exercise some hygiene at home. It could be a thought process to consider. 

Or don't, lol. I'm just saying that's our experience.

[Ting Tang]

13 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

Some years the *lesson* is not what we thought was going to be the lesson. Going through chemo is a big deal and it might be you kind of shift modes and embrace that as being ok. You wouldn't do that every year for 13 years, lol., but for one year absolutely it's ok. 

The germ thing is hard. I'm at a place in my life where it seems like EVERY TIME I get in someone's germs I get them. And I end up on antibiotics, which I suppose shorten my life and all the other jazz I read. I think I might be cautious about altering your kids' lives over germs only because well they're kids. They're not in the house with her. They can visit her outside maybe or skype. I would probably protect them a bit to make sure they have all the socializing they need, etc. If you alter *yourself* that's different because you're the adult. 

And maybe that deserves it's own thread, but it's just my two cents. It's not actually that hard not to get sick even when in tight quarters. I've had multiple occasions in the past calendar year where I was sharing tight quarters with someone and they DID NOT GET covid even when I did. Now if someone brings anything around me, I'm a virus magnet. But for other people, hygiene and a bit of space, not sharing water, not kissing, washing hands, giving just a bit of space, basic things go a surprising way. Your kids could bring something home from school and *not* make you sick if you exercise some hygiene at home. It could be a thought process to consider. 

Or don't, lol. I'm just saying that's our experience.

Thank you so much.  She went through breast cancer several years ago, and now it's been almost three years of this.  Since we live nextdoor, I feel like I am constantly living on borrowed time---waiting for a tragedy between her and my father-in-law since they are also aging.  We definitely do more than we did during Covid, but sometimes I still think I live differently.  I'm still trying to figure out next year.  

[PeterPan]

2 hours ago, Ting Tang said:

waiting for a tragedy

Do you think she would feel guilty if you were making choices that confined or held back her grand kids in some way on her behalf? I think accepting mortality is part of life's lessons. Sometimes we stare it down, say it's ok, make peace with it, and go LIVE. 

I've lost both my inlaws and my parents are, of course, aging. It was super hard because you feel orphaned. However we did finally come to the other side and find new ways, new things. As long as you've made peace with the whole religious side (what you believe about after you die, etc.), I think just suck it up and live. It will be hard enough when it happens and it will happen because that is what happens. We become the generation that we admired. It sounds trite, but that's what I realized, that we have to grow into becoming that and that's how it happens.

I don't think it's a wrong decision to embrace life and enjoy what you're doing. I probably would lean toward a choice not to live in fear, and I'm guessing your loved one would *not* want you to live in fear. And if they do, well haha that's not cool. But probably they want you to be brave and embrace life without fear. If there's a choice that would make your kids HAPPY, it may be a really good one. Just my two cents. 🙂

[Clemsondana]

Does the rest of the family expect that you keep your kids home to protect MIL?  I ask because, during Covid as people were making decisions, both sets of grandparents told us to do whatever we thought was best for our kids and they, the grandparents, would adapt as they thought best.  They did not want the kids' lives disrupted on their account (if we felt that not doing something was best for the kids, that was fine).  I seem to remember you posting about other relatives coming around when they had colds and such, so I'm wondering if you are doing a schooling option that you don't really prefer for your family to work towards a health/safety goal that only you have.  In the past few years, I've had 3 people in my orbit go through chemo.  One of them stayed home from large gatherings but didn't expect others, even their spouse, to, and the other 2 were living life as normally as possible.  One organ transplant recipient teaches classes at our co-op.  This isn't a judgement or a statement about what is the 'right' or 'good' choice, but just an observation that it wouldn't be unusual for your MIL and family to not expect you to keep your kids home to avoid germs.  

Again, homeschooling can be great!  Staying home to avoid germs can be a family decision.  But, in some ways this feels like you are taking on a lot of burdens - homeschooling, avoiding germs, your daughter's time-consuming activity - that aren't all great fits (by your description) and aren't expected by anybody else.  It's possible that I'm misreading this situation, but I know that it can get overwhelming to feel like 'I'm doing all of these things that I don't want to do for everybody else!' when there's no appreciation, and I'm wondering if that's happening because nobody realizes why you are doing these things and would never ask you to.  

[8filltheheart]

It is also a mix of confusing choices. Germs arent isolated to schools. Sick kids (and adults) are out in public everywhere.  Sports, activities, grocery stores, restaurants.....unless you never leave home, restricting school access while still engaging in other ECs doesnt eliminate risk. Exposure is always a possibility.

[8filltheheart]

17 hours ago, Ting Tang said:

Thank you! I think they use books in the public domain, but we’re definitely an extracurricular family, lol. I was at a taekwondo tournament and master dance class this weekend… lol

I find your posts very confusing. It is hard to reconcile this post with not sending your oldest to school bc of germs.

In 2022 you described your ds as a 4th grader who had completed MB 6th grade math. From this side of the screen it seems like he did well in 4th with MB 5 and 6 but then you realized they were actually below grade level (not a big issue since he was only a 4th grader). But, since then, it seems like his progress has stagnated bc of numerous curriculum hops and his not engaging. How much actual math progress has he made in 5th and 6th grades? The older they get, the harder catching up becomes. IOW, catching up a 4th grader is way easier than a 6th grader simple bc there is less remediation required.

Not having a good 7th grade yr will just complicate his progression more. There is also nothing saying it is only one option or the other. You can give school a try and see if it motivates him to engage since he isnt engaging at home. He may thrive in school. He may realize that he loves homeschooling and ask to come home. It might make him put in more effort at home if he is the motivator behind that option.

It just seems like you need to find a better fit for everyone in your family than you currently have bc from your posts it doesn't come across as everyone thriving individually.

[Ting Tang]

14 hours ago, 8filltheheart said:

I find your posts very confusing. It is hard to reconcile this post with not sending your oldest to school bc of germs.

In 2022 you described your ds as a 4th grader who had completed MB 6th grade math. From this side of the screen it seems like he did well in 4th with MB 5 and 6 but then you realized they were actually below grade level (not a big issue since he was only a 4th grader). But, since then, it seems like his progress has stagnated bc of numerous curriculum hops and his not engaging. How much actual math progress has he made in 5th and 6th grades? The older they get, the harder catching up becomes. IOW, catching up a 4th grader is way easier than a 6th grader simple bc there is less remediation required.

Not having a good 7th grade yr will just complicate his progression more. There is also nothing saying it is only one option or the other. You can give school a try and see if it motivates him to engage since he isnt engaging at home. He may thrive in school. He may realize that he loves homeschooling and ask to come home. It might make him put in more effort at home if he is the motivator behind that option.

It just seems like you need to find a better fit for everyone in your family than you currently have bc from your posts it doesn't come across as everyone thriving individually.

Our local k-8 school has crumbling bathrooms missing faucets; kids are instructed to pile  costs on top of each other on the floor for an easy grab after lunch before recess. We were never sicker than the time they went to that school. Our extracurriculars DO exist, and we do get exposed to germs, but I feel we have more control and less exposure than we might from school. If you look at the Academy I was looking at, it seems they do not want your children being involved in anything at all—there’s an evening study block time. It appears to be very strict. Kinda reminds me of the Catholic version of shiny, happy, people when I read the rules. I did look at a tiny bit of the actual curriculum, it looked somewhat good, sadly. But being enrolled seems to come with strict guidelines… anyway, I have not found the perfect math. Right now he’s doing the Learn Math Fast books. We are in the midst of Volume III pre-algebra book. I don’t think it’s a full curriculum, but at least he’s doing something now. I feel like we’re not doing enough, but I also feel like it is impossible to do enough for every child.  The academy looked like an affordable solution, but then I came across some criticisms. 

Edited March 27 by Ting Tang

[ScoutTN]

There is no “perfect math”. Some curricula may be a better fit for a particular child than others, but curriculum is merely a tool. Teaching is essential. A good teacher can use many different materials successfully. Ime, math books or online videos by themselves are not generally enough, except with very motivated and mature students. 
 

Edited March 27 by ScoutTN

[Ting Tang]

5 hours ago, ScoutTN said:

There is no “perfect math”. Some curricula may be a better fit for a particular child than others, but curriculum is merely a tool. Teaching is essential. A good teacher can use many different materials successfully. Ime, math books or online videos by themselves are not generally enough, except with very motivated and mature students. 
 

There isn't a perfect math, you are correct.  We found that my next in line enjoys the Strayer-Upton series, and my daughter is doing well with Singapore Dimensions.  With my son, we've just really struggled.  I think he'd rather be doing other things, quite frankly, than math.  And I have tried to find something tolerable for him.  I've been teaching from the LMF books, but I know we need something more in depth for next year.  I still haven't decided what we are doing, so I have bought nothing just yet in case he does go back to regular school.  I just find our local school to be a bad place. They were very anti Covid protocols, and I truly believe parents send their kids sick there...joking about how everyone is getting Covid anyway. So yes, I do worry about the germs there, moreso than I worry about germs in a group of 5 kids once or twice a week...or a first-in-a-lifetime taekwondo tournament. 

[ScoutTN]

Sounds to me like his attitude is more of an issue than his aptitude for math. Btdt. It’s hard. Parenting is actually way harder than teaching, ime. 
 

I would stop worrying about finding a math curriculum that he likes and focus on getting a solid one done. 

Edited March 27 by ScoutTN

[Clarita]

11 hours ago, Ting Tang said:

There isn't a perfect math, you are correct.  We found that my next in line enjoys the Strayer-Upton series, and my daughter is doing well with Singapore Dimensions.  With my son, we've just really struggled.  I think he'd rather be doing other things, quite frankly, than math.  And I have tried to find something tolerable for him.  I've been teaching from the LMF books, but I know we need something more in depth for next year.  I still haven't decided what we are doing, so I have bought nothing just yet in case he does go back to regular school.  I just find our local school to be a bad place. They were very anti Covid protocols, and I truly believe parents send their kids sick there...joking about how everyone is getting Covid anyway. So yes, I do worry about the germs there, moreso than I worry about germs in a group of 5 kids once or twice a week...or a first-in-a-lifetime taekwondo tournament. 

So, I'm a fixer type person so I tend to look at everything and find all the issues. Sometimes I get hyper-focused on the issues, especially ones I have not found a solution for. This part of my personality usually makes me a person who takes on a lot and gets things done, but sometimes it reeks havoc on my moral. I've found a useful practice I do in my homeschool to keep me from spiraling into "education is awful in my home" thinking.

I just observe what happens during our homeschool time. I pick a day and I just write down what happens (without judging good or bad). DS did 5 math problems today. DD wrote a 10 sentence story. (Sorry my kids are little.) etc. Then I go back and make my judgements and how I feel about each thing. Lastly I go back and decide if any of them require action. It sounds like it doesn't help fix anything, but it clears my head a bit and helps me see the good parts of the school day. Then the bad stuff it has helped me get a clearer picture of what I need to do to make things run more smoothly. Like your son may always have a bad attitude toward math and that may never be a subject that he does independently, but on the other hand maybe his reading is fantastic. Or that yes everyday you all get to math and it's a total drag but in reality you all have great time doing read-alouds. Or your children never provide good narration during your read aloud time but later in the day you find them incorporating parts of your history read aloud in their pretend play or conversation. I can't tell you how but seeing these tells me how to teach the children I have and less on the children I wish I had. 

[LauraClark]

16 hours ago, ScoutTN said:

Sounds to me like his attitude is more of an issue than his aptitude for math. Btdt. It’s hard. Parenting is actually way harder than teaching, ime. 
 

I would stop worrying about finding a math curriculum that he likes and focus on getting a solid one done. 

This is excellent advice. My oldest is smart and could do amazing at school, but he would always rather be doing something else (even though the something else is usually academic). I was so discouraged in the early early years that he was never excited about anything I planned. I'm still disappointed here and there, but now I just try to ignore/correct his attitude and assign the things that I think he would connect with if his attitude wasn't bad. I second the idea that probably most math curriculums are fine-they are a teaching tool.

 

@Clarita: that is a great idea. I once did something similar with life in general when I noticed I was focusing on all the negative-I wrote down positive things from the day so I could review them at the end of the week. That was helpful (...I should do it again...).