"Homeschooling" article in WaPo

[EKS]

If you want to raise your blood pressure, have a gander at the comments section.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/interactive/2023/homeschooling-microschools-pods-esa-vouchers/?itid=hp-top-table-main_p001_f003

[itsheresomewhere]

The comments were wow. Not even going to comment on that. 
 

But I have been saying this new crop of “homeschoolers” where I am are going to be the one who start a downfall or a radical change that is isn’t positive for homeschoolers.  They want everything that public school has without public school. So micro schools and pods have bloomed and not for the best.  The parents don’t want to teach and hand it all off to someone who doesn’t have an interest in education only the money.  There has already been one pod/micro school ( depending on which post she made) that took everyone’s money and disappeared.  It was over 10k last I heard.  Another who would take money and if the parent asked too many questions, they were asked to leave.  These places are charging a pretty penny for baby sitting ( one is 800 a month near me).  They are ruining the name for those who actually are doing it for the kids and not for the quick cash.  

[Shoeless]

Meh. These are the same statements I have read about homeschooling for the decade I have been doing this. 

We have microschools popping up here, but they close quickly due to lake of participants. Most people that can afford 11k a year, (the going rate for the newest microschools), want something with prestige and name recognition. Most of the private schools here are cheaper than $11k/year and offer bus transportation. The microschools do not.

I am more concerned with the crop of homeschoolers that use all online providers and put their kid in front of a computer all day. I don't know how we went from "Zoom school is bad for kids and learning" to "But online programs that cost parents money aren't a problem at all".

Edited August 17, 2023 by Shoeless

[mom2scouts]

I'm not a fan of these microschools. They're nothing more than unregulated private schools and they will do major damage to homeschooling. They allow parents to say they're homeschooling without having to actually be in charge of their child's education. They damage homeschool co-op and social groups. They lose the point of providing an education for your unique child because you know them better than anyone.

There's a homeschool facebook page for a group near me and every other post is from a woman marketing her microschool. It's interesting that nobody seems to like or respond to her posts, so I'm hopeful that most homeschoolers are rejecting it. They're not inexpensive either and most of these parents would be better off sending their kids to one of the excellent private schools in the area.

[ktgrok]

Interestingly, my state is one that has ESAs where parents can get refunded for non public school expenses, and the only thing they will NOT pay for are hybrid schools. There is one for private school tuition, and one for homeschooling, (the one open to all homeschoolers, not just ones with disabilities, is just starting this year) but the private school one won't pay for a private school that isn't full time and the homeschool one won't pay for private schools (which most of the hybrid schools and such fall under in my state). So LOTS of complaining right now about how people can't pay for their sort of private school/pod/thing. Now, you as a homeschooler CAN be reimburses for part time tutoring - BUT the tutor has to meet certain qualifications (bachelors degree in the subject being taught or teaching certificate or proof of a certain number of years teaching that subject). So my kids STEM drop off program they go to once a week is reimbursed that way, because they are learning science and it is run/taught by two men one with a PhD in Physics and one with a Masters in EE and they both have science undergrad degrees. But it will NOT reimburse Karen down the street who is acting as a  babysitter "facilitator" for your kids to do all their schoolwork on Time 4 Learning, even if she has a really fancy website now and put "pod" in the name. 

That said, i do see why those who use part time actual academic private schools feel left out of the private school ESA program, since their kids' entire curriculum may come from that school. But because they are only on campus 2-3 days a week the school doesn't meet the guidelines of a full time public school. 

Honestly, I have been doing this a long time and I'm confused at this point as to what homeschooling is and isn't, and what's a private school, etc. I'm not really super jazzed about taking funds from public school for non public options, but at the same time if we are, I'm signing up. My kids with learning issues get one specific for kids with learning issues, with the idea that parents can get more for their kids with the money than a public school can provide. Which I agree with. But now we have one that is funded by corporations (who then get a tax break) for any homeschooler...it gives priority to low income but doesn't have an income cap, and right now less than half the number have signed up as they have spots for, so I likely will get it for my youngest. 

It's confusing and morally a bit weird. But I also feel like if it is there, I'm using it. 

But I'm not paying some "pod" to babysit my kids and calling it tuition. 

[Shoeless]

Full disclosure: I looked into sending DS15 to a microschool prior to the pandemic because my anxiety was through the ceiling.

I checked out 2 places, and nothing they offered was better than what I was doing at home. The selling point for school A was poetry tea time.  School B boasted about problem solving via D&D and how they often ate pizza while playing Mario Kart. Neither school offered a curriculum or even had books, but the "mentors" were happy to help students with whatever schoolwork they brought with them. They talked a big game about "alternative learning models" and used a lot of education buzzwords. All of the images on their website were free clip art and did not represent actual students. 

In both cases, the enrolled students were the owner's kids and the kids of her friends. Both places folded because no one wanted to pay $10k a year for school age kids to be babysat while the owner homeschooled her own kids.

I want to believe there are great alternative options out there. I just haven't seen any yet.

[Kidlit]

This discussion is diminishing my sadness over no longer homeschooling.  I have felt a few times like we quit (2019) just as it exploded due to 2020 events. This makes me feel less FOMO about the things we might be missing locally. 

[Lecka]

Just my thought — I know several kids who struggled with going back to school after Covid meant being home.  
 

I don’t think it’s a good solution, but I can see the appeal for a parent whose kids are struggling with the transition back to regular in-person school.  
 

I also think there are some times where a kid was doing great with an online school situation where it was either really basic, possible to endlessly guess, or very easy to cheat.  Oh, but parents think everything is great!  Then why isn’t the transition back to school going well, it must be the school’s fault!  I hope this is not a common mindset but I think it exists.  
 

I’m actually pretty sad that several of my oldest son’s friends never went back to in-person school.  But I also get that it would have been with heavy restrictions, and then they were out of school so long.  And then at a certain point what someone thinks school is, is low-quality online classes, and that’s just what school is, you just try to do it as fast as possible or do it with your friends over Discord.  Edit: but parents may just see good grades.  
 

Edit:  I also think a lot of times the transition back to school is hard for really complicated reasons, it is not an easy situation.  

Edited August 17, 2023 by Lecka

[Katy]

I’m just as concerned with this as I am the women with very little education and no interest in learning that yank their children so they’re not exposed to the evil world. It doesn’t have to mean educational neglect, but it too often does. 

[Kidlit]

23 minutes ago, Lecka said:

 

I also think there are some times where a kid was doing great with an online school situation where it was either really basic, possible to endlessly guess, or very easy to cheat.  Oh, but parents think everything is great!  Then why isn’t the transition back to school going well, it must be the school’s fault!  I hope this is not a common mindset but I think it exists.  
 

 

This definitely exists. I taught 2019-2022, and the number of times parents were dismayed by in-person assessments after "doing so well" at home is not a small one.  It was obvious based on the assessments that something fishy happened during on-line learning (& it was less than stellar on both ends!), and man, what a struggle it was to regain any sense of normalcy.  It took my sixth graders one whole semester in 2021 to get down to business, which was after a year of mostly in-school but sometimes not, "hybrid" days, and A/B schedules.  And my state returned to "normal" pretty fast!

[Lecka]

We also had a lot of disruption here in Jan/Feb 2022 because a lot of teachers and students were out sick with Omicron (I think it was Omicron).

 

This was just a blip for a lot of people, but it really threw off my son and he had a really hard time adjusting afterward.  

[Melissa Louise]

There need to be better options for the significant minority of kids for whom institutional schooling is damaging.

I've seen the same post Covid rise in 'offerings', for the h/s community, often from retired teachers with zero understanding of a homeschool cohort. People seeking to make a business from a market they just don't understand.

I would 100% run a pod if it wasn't illegal here. I teach homeschoolers and have done since my own kids were small - I could do a good job of it. I don't think there's anything wrong with the concept, and it could work for a limited set of parents whose children need not to be in school and who have the $ to outsource and who don't want to have to quit work.

 

 

[Faith-manor]

I think the U.S. is in an educational state of existence that I call "circling the drain", a total crisis of earth rattling proportions. So many public schools are just babysitting. Literally. Changes in educational law here in Michigan, due to teacher shortages that will only get worse because with good reason no one wants to go into the profession, means that in many districts para-pros are now " faculty " as full time substitutes, anyone over 18 can apply. No joke. We have recent 18 year old high school graduates stepping into the classrooms to babysit their peers. Student to teacher ratios for classes with teachers at the middle and high school level who have actual subject matter expertise is now standing at 40:1 and climbing. No one seems to be learning anything except in wealthy suburbs of well off urban areas like Greater Ann Arbor, Traverse City, some of the other college towns like Lansing and Marquette, or in super wealthy burbs like West Bloomfield. The best school district to the west of here that a decade ago had a place in the top 400 high schools in the nation has dropped into oblivion. I don't know that Michiganders would stand for a wave of regulation when to be honest most of these kids really are not going to be better served, especially in rural areas, by spending all day in PS. Maybe they will have books and some sort of homeschool co-op classes because mostly they are going to end up being babysat while they watch videos at school all day long.

The wealthy elites and federal government are fine with it. An uneducated electorate is one easily manipulated, coerced, oppressed. They are fine with education being in name only so long as someone is babysitting the non working youth. Meanwhile, they and theirs will have children who continue to graduated from the halls of private prep schools, matriculate the the ivies and near ivies, and inherit both money and positions of power from their parents, an aristocracy that unlike feudalism doesn't even bear any responsibility of any kind to its serfs.

Ya. Wapro, we get it, the new wave of home schoolers appears to be taking shortcuts on the hard work of educating kids, and it isn't good. Well. Stuff it. Go take a look at the PS, especially in southern states, but basically all over this nation. The nutjobs have taken over. From book bans, content bans, weeks and weeks of bubble testing and preparing for bubble testing, no textbooks, teachers leaving in droves, chaos in the halls, catasteophic bullying, superintendents draining districts of their money while assuring everyone that its all good because the football team still plays, depressed kids, depressed faculty, not enough bus drivers, not enough anything, educational theory that doesn't match child development missing it by miles and miles, crap food, heavy metal poisoned water in the pipes even at the schools because city water supplies are so polluted, a list of horrors too long to print...public education is a wildfire raging without end in sight.

The children in this nation really should be able to unionize and go on strike.

Homeschooling failing is a drop in the educational bucket compared to the monsoon like failures of the last decade of public education. The nation's journalists really need to keep their eyes on that ball.

I used to worry about homeschooling educational neglect. Not too much anymore. The big education train has gone so far off the rails, it has plummeted off the canyon.

[Ting Tang]

I'll start worrying more about public school alternatives when public schools start doing better academically and environmentally.  Until then, I see the "worrisome" alternatives as a rejection of so many failures. 

Yes, there are wonderful public schools.

No, many do not have access to them.

So, in the meantime, parents are just trying to find something that works for their families.   Socially awkward and uneducated people come out of public school, so I do get tired of reading the same complaints about homeschooling.  I really do not believe parents are trying to do worse than what they experienced in public school.  And I think many, including myself, will find an alternative to homeschooling if it is not working for the child.  There will be exceptions, and I am very sorry about those.  People also claim homeschooling leads to abuse, but what about the abuse in public schools, from bullying to OMG teachers (male and female) committing statutory rape?  Sorry....tangent here...

I have looked at the two new microschools in my area, but the ads had grammatical and spelling errors.  But I also know of great homeschooling mothers who've written curriculums themselves that are pretty darn good!  

Oh yeah, I still worry about Covid.  And I know our local school board, even with its new members, is very much against masking. They also fed kids leaded water, so there is that.  

 

Edited August 17, 2023 by Ting Tang

[Melissa Louise]

16 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

 

The children in this nation really should be able to unionize and go on strike.

Homeschooling failing is a drop in the educational bucket compared to the monsoon like failures of the last decade of public education. The nation's journalists really need to keep their eyes on that ball.

I used to worry about homeschooling educational neglect. Not too much anymore. The big education train has gone so far off the rails, it has plummeted off the canyon.

This. 

 

 

[ktgrok]

2 hours ago, Shoeless said:

Both places folded because no one wanted to pay $10k a year for school age kids to be babysat while the owner homeschooled her own kids.

 

THIS is what bugs me. I think that if a parent works all day and their kid does well online (or does better than with in person schooling) and is too young to stay home, a "pod" is fine. But there is NO REASON people should be charging the outrageous prices they are charging and calling it a "school". It is a "co-learning space" maybe, like a coworking space. I'm FINE with that. But it's not a school or a microschool or whatever, and someone leading it shouldn't charge what a private school charges when really, they are mainly babysitting. 

It's taking advantage of desperate parents and I'm not okay with that. And I'm really not thrilled if my tax dollars are financing these grifters. 

Again, I know there are some decent cool things being done - like I said, my kids are at one as I'm typing. But it isn't somebody's house where they are left to their own devices most of the day. It is a brick and mortar place (that is SUPER COOL) with all sorts of state of the art equipment, where kids are learning CAD software, using 3D printers, learning to code, some are starting their own businesses and learning how to create a website, buy a domain, market, etc. Some are learning french from the multiple native speakers that work there, they all are doing improv theater, being taught to give mini presentations to their peers, and in their down time playing strategy games or chess or financial literacy games, growing things with hydroponics, etc. PLUS there is an actual nuclear physicist who is a MacArthur fellow giving science lessons with cool demonstrations and hands on activities each day. So yes, part of the time my kids are there they are working on their own school work from home while hanging out with peers, and yes, there is an adult there to help if they get stuck, but it is a LOT more than just babysitting. 

Another local option is based on Agile Learning or some such thing - the kids meet each morning to set short, medium, and longtime goals, and then the mentors help them figure out how to achieve them. There are classes on cooking, coding, etc and outdoor nature activities. Again, not just babysitting. 

So on the one hand some REALLY cool things are happening. On the other hand....some really sketchy things. I mean, we already know that some charter schools are totally sketchy and basically educational scams. Now we have these new things that have even more room to scam people. 

 

 

[Melissa Louise]

My perspective would be a different one, I guess.

If a pod is meeting the same minimum standards as a homeschool in that state, the cost may be worth it to a mother who doesn't want to have to quit her career, but whose child can't be in school. 

 

 

[Kidlit]

1 hour ago, Melissa Louise said:

There need to be better options for the significant minority of kids for whom institutional schooling is damaging.

I've seen the same post Covid rise in 'offerings', for the h/s community, often from retired teachers with zero understanding of a homeschool cohort. People seeking to make a business from a market they just don't understand.

I would 100% run a pod if it wasn't illegal here. I teach homeschoolers and have done since my own kids were small - I could do a good job of it. I don't think there's anything wrong with the concept, and it could work for a limited set of parents whose children need not to be in school and who have the $ to outsource and who don't want to have to quit work.

 

 

I definitely saw this.  I was fresh off homeschooling when schools closed in 2020 and was able to quickly and reasonably transition my fourth grade class to school-at-home.  I understood how much work was reasonable daily for kids outside of a brick and mortar classroom, but I was one of few.  Many teachers at my school struggled with this (and remember--they'd had NO preparation for it!) and consequently, students struggled. 

[lmrich]

Who knew I was a trend setter? 

I have welcomed kids into my home for years, so I could help them with their homeschool work. I am a certified teacher with 30 years of experience so a bit different. I had kids pop  over after public school for a while, too. 

Many families are just trying to balance too much that having a safe space to work is valuable. The kids get a chance to socialize and receive help on their tougher subjects. At my pod, the kids all attend the same hybrid school, too. 

[lmrich]

2 hours ago, Shoeless said:

 

In both cases, the enrolled students were the owner's kids and the kids of her friends. Both places folded because no one wanted to pay $10k a year for school age kids to be babysat while the owner homeschooled her own kids.

 

yikes - I am not charging enough at all! I have two teachers working with a maxiumum of 12 kids. I charge $50 a day for 6 hours. 

[Shoeless]

1 hour ago, ktgrok said:

Another local option is based on Agile Learning or some such thing - the kids meet each morning to set short, medium, and longtime goals, and then the mentors help them figure out how to achieve them. There are classes on cooking, coding, etc and outdoor nature activities. Again, not just babysitting. 

The poetry tea time school was supposedly an Agile learning center. No cool equipment, and the other mentor was the owner's Mom friend.  Mom was a local homeschool parent of early elementary students, so not a lot of experience teaching, either. Mom was a little vague about exactly what the kids would be doing all day. Like, poetry tea time and then nature study and a walk and then some lunch.  They took a field trip to the library once.  Okay...that's a nice day, but...I dunno, I expect more for $10k a year. 

I don't think she was trying to be dishonest, necessarily. I think she was in over her head, didn't know what to do with kids older than hers, and figured this would be an easy way to generate cash while "staying home".

I'm not really sure how funding for these Agile centers works. Maybe they are.self-funded? No clue. 

Like I said, I want to believe there are great alternative options out there. I haven't seen them yet here.

[Shoeless]

1 hour ago, lmrich said:

yikes - I am not charging enough at all! I have two teachers working with a maxiumum of 12 kids. I charge $50 a day for 6 hours. 

Maybe not, because every one of these $10k per student places folds within a year. 

I'm keeping an eye on the new $11k a year place to see if they make it. 

[Danae]

1 hour ago, lmrich said:

yikes - I am not charging enough at all! I have two teachers working with a maxiumum of 12 kids. I charge $50 a day for 6 hours. 

That would be $9,000 for a full school year.  So you’re not far off.  

[EKS]

I realize that whatever is going on in these places is some sort of hybrid between school and daycare, but if I were to tutor another person's child the way I homeschooled my own children (and in my current state of having 20 years of teaching experience combined with a considerable amount of relevant education--bachelor's degree in biochemistry, almost another bachelor's degree in math, master's degree in gifted education, and another master's degree from an interdisciplinary humanities program), I would charge $50,000 per year minimum--and likely far more.  No, I'm not kidding.

[lewelma]

3 hours ago, Melissa Louise said:

My perspective would be a different one, I guess.

If a pod is meeting the same minimum standards as a homeschool in that state, the cost may be worth it to a mother who doesn't want to have to quit her career, but whose child can't be in school. 

Here in NZ, they are not legal. Either you attend school or you are homeschooled. And if you are homeschooled you must be taught by your parent/legal guardian.  You can't pay someone else to take responsibility for educating your child. Here in my city, I have once seen a one-day school for homeschoolers that ran for 1 year, but to be on the safe side, they hired a registered teacher. In 20 years I've been involved, there has never been a co-op in a city of 400,000. It's just a bit risky legally to try to outsource, so people here just don't.  

Edited August 18, 2023 by lewelma

[lewelma]

23 minutes ago, EKS said:

I realize that whatever is going on in these places is some sort of hybrid between school and daycare, but if I were to tutor another person's child the way I homeschooled my own children (and in my current state of having 20 years of teaching experience combined with a considerable amount of relevant education--bachelor's degree in biochemistry, almost another bachelor's degree in math, master's degree in gifted education, and another master's degree from an interdisciplinary humanities program), I would charge $50,000 per year minimum--and likely far more.  No, I'm not kidding.

I take on the responsibility for tutoring a kid for one subject and I charge $7500 per year.  And that is where they also have a school and a curriculum set out. So $50k per year for full homeschool responsibility is definitely a minimum. 

[EKS]

4 minutes ago, lewelma said:

So $50k per year for full homeschool responsibility is definitely a minimum.

Probably more like $100,000 actually.

[JennyD]

27 minutes ago, EKS said:

I realize that whatever is going on in these places is some sort of hybrid between school and daycare, but if I were to tutor another person's child the way I homeschooled my own children (and in my current state of having 20 years of teaching experience combined with a considerable amount of relevant education--bachelor's degree in biochemistry, almost another bachelor's degree in math, master's degree in gifted education, and another master's degree from an interdisciplinary humanities program), I would charge $50,000 per year minimum--and likely far more.  No, I'm not kidding.

This is what almost nobody understands.  Truly high-quality education is always going to be extremely expensive, because it requires a tremendous amount of highly-qualified labor.  In modern-day America, anyone who can educate children well could always be doing something else that would generate more immediate market value. 

Top-notch education isn't scalable and there are no hidden inefficiencies to be exploited.  The only way to reduce the cost is to reduce the quality.

 

 

 

[Melissa Louise]

25 minutes ago, lewelma said:

Here in NZ, they are not legal. Either you attend school or you are homeschooled. And if you are homeschooled you must be taught by your parent/legal guardian.  You can't pay someone else to take responsibility for educating your child. Here in my city, I have once seen a one-day school for homeschoolers that ran for 1 year, but to be on the safe side, they hired a registered teacher. In 20 years I've been involved, there has never been a co-op in a city of 400,000. It's just a bit risky legally to try to outsource, so people here just don't.  

It's the same here..

[Harriet Vane]

4 hours ago, Melissa Louise said:

My perspective would be a different one, I guess.

If a pod is meeting the same minimum standards as a homeschool in that state, the cost may be worth it to a mother who doesn't want to have to quit her career, but whose child can't be in school. 

 

 

Yes. The other piece of this is that full-time childcare IS expensive. Just the act of providing a safe and nurturing environment, full-time, IS expensive.

I can see the argument that it's disingenuous to call it a school if the childcare provider isn't teaching. But nevertheless, childcare does cost money. It's valid to charge to care for someone's child all day and usher them through their schoolwork. So the real question is--is it childcare or is it schooling? Call it what it is.

[BakersDozen]

4 hours ago, lewelma said:

Here in NZ, they are not legal. Either you attend school or you are homeschooled. And if you are homeschooled you must be taught by your parent/legal guardian.  You can't pay someone else to take responsibility for educating your child.

AZ (where I live) has the same rules for homeschooling, although parents/guardians can have/hire non-public instruction but that instruction must take place in the child(ren)'s own home. Otherwise, parents/guardians must be the primary educators. Unfortunately, I have watched with alarm as the ESA expansion has all but obliterated what homeschooling is understood to be in this state, even though absolutely nothing has actually changed for homeschooling! It remains a separate and distinct option, and homeschoolers cannot have an ESA contract. The law, the Handbook, the ESA admins all clearly state this, but politicians, groups, businesses (which advertise "homeschool" services), and ESA families absolutely will not respect the fact that while home education has expanded and is undergoing tremendous growing pains, homeschooling is not part of it all. It is a mess. So now we have families who put their kids in micro schools which are popping up everywhere or who hire their friend's newly graduated high schooler as a "teacher" at an exorbitant hourly rate (with absolutely no way to show the state or the taxpayers who are forced to fund this mess that any instruction is actually happening). We have plethora "homeschoolers" who are not at all homeschooling per AZ law yet who claim the title along with the funding for a program which homeschoolers cannot use. Dare to correct this and you'd better duck, ironically from the very ones who demand respect and support for ESA/home education yet will not respect nor support legal homeschooling (which was around for oodles of years before the ESA ever began).

Yeah, I'm kind of ticked off and over all of this. Oh, the stories I could tell about the ESA in Arizona...blatant boasting from those who purchase a $10 workbook so as to meet the 5-subject requirement, and thousands spent on horseback riding lessons, trampoline parks, huge pink fluffy vanity chairs and the vanity with lights and mirror, too. A mom who submitted a "curriculum" for cooking and bought SO many items (which were approved because the system is laughable as far as that goes) and then resold stuff brand new, unused (yes, against the rules, but no one cares).

I could scream when I hear folks say they homeschool now in AZ or who say things like, "Oh, you homeschool and get money for it!" No, we don't. We don't put our kids in microschools or pods because that's against the law for homeschoolers. We pay for the tutors we hire and if it's our friend's 17-year old graduate, so be it - it's entirely on us and not the taxpayers. And if we use a $10 workbook and call that education, again so be it.

The ESA in AZ had a great initial focus - special needs students who were unable to receive services at their home school. Now it's an almost unfettered program giving families a means to fund their recreational pursuits under the guise of education. And the taxpayers get to fund the bill for this (and for private schools which really is just wrong, imo).

Ugh. Sorry...I really get fired up about this. I spend so much time correcting folks on the ESA/home education side and the public school side, I just get so all-fired angry because this ESA thing has nothing to do with homeschooling in our state. For decades, homeschoolers were warned that this was coming and here it is. It's embarrassing because now folks, instead of viewing homeschooling as a positive thing, look askance at me until I assure them that we are indeed homeschooling and not on the public dime. I'm not putting together a curriculum on, say, kayaking so as to fund my family's desire to go out on the lake (and the reselling the kayaks when we're done).

OK, I'll be quiet now. Sorry if I went a bit off topic and on a wee bit of a tirade. 🙂

[BakersDozen]

On a kinder, more calm note... I do appreciate that for families such as Shea's (son wears banana suit), I love reading about options for families/kids that might not otherwise be available. When the ESA in AZ was initially proposed for special needs students, I was 100% for it. It has met a huge need for students who could not receive the services they needed, and it gave tremendous support to those students' families.

Beth Lewis' comment about no oversight, accountability, standards, etc. is correct, but she is referencing home education, not homeschooling (and I have had several conversations with her regarding this and continue to post almost daily on the SOS FB page when the term is incorrectly used).

I appreciate that the article references that only a few states allow microschools for homeschooling - kind of wish those states had been mentioned specifically...ahem, AZ.

Prenda and KaiPod have wreaked havoc in AZ and have been called out and legally challenged for misrepresenting what they offer. Prenda has responded respectfully; KaiPod not so much. These along with too many other businesses do not realize that "homeschool" does not mean the same thing in every state, and the laws are usually ignored because $$$ is at stake. Literally a few hours ago a gal posted about her "Open Enrollement" (literal quote) for her homeschool pre-school. She's wanting ESA parents to sign up. Obviously, she's not familiar with either homeschooling or the ESA, but it's one example of how the perception of homeschooling has changed in a most shocking way and in such a short time.

I get really worked up about this because I knew some of the folks who fought for homeschooling to be what it still is in AZ. I heard them speak at our meetings and now see what they foretold would happen come true. And I see the term "homeschool" used for those who want taxpayer funds (only many of them claim the funds are "their" tax monies - like it comes out of their pocket directly) and yet also want to have the title for something which does not get funds.

Hopefully I kept that a bit more calm. 🙂



 

[Carrie12345]

I didn’t click on the article yet. Too early for that, lol.

One of the things I love about homeschooling is the freedom to have my kids learn as I see best. We don’t do standard textbook social studies here. We don’t censor books. We don’t advance through math if someone hasn’t “gotten” something. DE EMT is our health credit. Etc.

I don’t want to see micro schools outlawed. I think they can be a powerful tool for parents who reject the full public school model. BUT, parents should be responsible for making fully informed and involved choices, and business owners should operate ethically.

I can complain about “traditional homeschool” options that are out there all day long. Or crappy hs parents. This is just another resource that can be bad. Or can be good.

(No, we don’t have any that I’m aware of near me, and I wouldn’t spend a ton of money on one. But I do like to outsource.)

[ktgrok]

To clarify a bit, I'm not angry at parents choosing whatever works. I'm upset with companies that are for profit coming in and claiming the homeschool title but being something else, and charging parents a ton of money for it. 

If these pods were home grown - parents just offering things to meet a need they see in their social group/community, that's great.  I even suggested pods as a great option during Covid shut downs. But the article and my ire are about the companies that saw parents doing that and then swooped in with fancy advertising and buzzwords and started taking over. 

I mean, in the article it talks about how families would pay the pod "guide" but ALSO a whole heck of a bunch of money to Prenda or Kaipod or whichever's headquarters. That's the part I find irritating, because WHAT is that company really providing for all that money? They are not the ones there helping the kids, and they aren't actually providing their own curriculum - the kids are using MiaAcademy and such, so???? Yeah, they are the ones I'm annoyed with. At this point it is not uncommon for local homeschoolers to ask "Wait, I don't HAVE to use some other program, I can just do it myself?"

[ktgrok]

I will say I know what you mean, @BakersDozen, about parents abusing the ESA system. Ours no longer allows cooking equipment because parents were trying to say that their 7 year old needed an entire set of brand new high priced pots/pans etc for 1K when obviously the parent just wanted new pots and pans. It also doesn't allow duplicates within 2-3 years for a lot of things, so although you can get a kayak for your kid, you couldn't get kayaks for the whole family. One. Same with things like headphones, electronics, etc. There is a big push back right now though because they just added musical instruments to that category and a lot of people are saying their kid will outgrow say, a violin, in less than the 2 or 3 year time period (I forget if it is 2 or 3 for that category) so that may change. But I bet it is because people are reselling them. 

I do feel ethically weird about reselling stuff I get with the ESA. For instance, I have full Bookshark levels with all the books that I bought with it, and I could resell them for decent money, but that's.....icky. So I ended up offering to loan them out to local homeschool friends, several of whom are also on the scholarship. 

They also recently added a bunch of spending caps per category which I didn't get until reading your post - that people were spending all the money on one type of thing and then just a tiny bit on the actual academics. Now it makes more sense. They probably will still adjust them as they seem all wonky (written by people who have never educated a kid and have no idea what say, music lessons or art supplies cost). But I can see now why they added the category caps. 

[Heartstrings]

Internet Comment sections: here there be monsters. 

[Heartstrings]

15 hours ago, Melissa Louise said:

', for the h/s community, often from retired teachers with zero understanding of a homeschool cohort. People seeking to make a business from a market they just don't understand.

This drives me crazy.  They come in with an air of “I’m here now, let me show you the right way”.  It’s even more frustrating from professionals that weren't even teachers.  So many former counselors wanting us to pay them to teach “social emotional learning” as if somehow we don’t do that already and call it parenting.  

Edited August 18, 2023 by Heartstrings

[Xahm]

I hadn't realized that Kaipod was a chain because I hadn't been attracted to their Facebook posts enough to click. I was amused, in a sad way, that they advertised their adults as being "former educators." If they are working at a school, even a pod, I'd hope they are current educators.

[Dianthus]

I read that article last night. I'd never heard of a microschool before.

 

[Mrs Tiggywinkle Again]

I started a thread in general education about homeschooling trends and hybrid schools. Mostly I was venting because all but one enrichment co-op here has closed this year and the informal get togethers like park days or even more formal like support groups have gone by the wayside.  The issue is that a hybrid school opened 3 days a week and it is hugely popular.  When I dropped off my instruction plan for the year(I live in NY and homeschooling is filled with paperwork) the homeschool coordinator told me 90% of the homeschooled kids in our district are attending the hybrid school this year according to their individualized homeschool instruction plans.  This place has lunch, a cafeteria, lockers, recess—it’s school  with the classes taught by people with no formal qualifications.  My daughter’s private school has smaller class sizes.

My whole venting point is that these things are popular because homeschool parents want them. And it frustrates me because I don’t have much choice but to use the electives at the hybrid school for my son because all other homeschool socialization opportunities are gone.(I know we can do evening activities, but I teach adult Ed most evenings).

[Clarita]

I have thoughts but then again reading the comments here my state works differently. We don't have vouchers at all the only way homeschoolers even get money is by joining a charter school which is under some government scrutiny. So originally I put down some thoughts about even glorified babysitting services should be paid and could be good for some families and for some families this could be better than sending their kids to public school. 

The comments section though ... the commenters who start their rants with I don't have kids and have nothing to do with education since I graduated high school, but here's my absolutely correct opinion on this topic. Surprisingly (sarcasm) don't know what they are talking about.

[BakersDozen]

On 8/18/2023 at 5:10 AM, ktgrok said:

They also recently added a bunch of spending caps per category which I didn't get until reading your post - that people were spending all the money on one type of thing and then just a tiny bit on the actual academics. Now it makes more sense. They probably will still adjust them as they seem all wonky (written by people who have never educated a kid and have no idea what say, music lessons or art supplies cost). But I can see now why they added the category caps.

This is what one person did with a year of ESA funds for one of her dc. You can't make this stuff up (unfortunately). And that garden tower? She ended up re-selling it (again, against ESA guidelines/rules). Taxpayers should not be forced to fund stuff like this, and families should not be able to spend taxpayer funds in this way. 😞

$20 curriculum
$2700 gaming PC & accessories
$1,000 kayak
$1,000 Apple watch & airpods
$500 essential oils w curriculum
$500 garden tower
$500 digital calendar
$500 LEGO titanic

 

[Shoeless]

21 minutes ago, BakersDozen said:

This is what one person did with a year of ESA funds for one of her dc. You can't make this stuff up (unfortunately). And that garden tower? She ended up re-selling it (again, against ESA guidelines/rules). Taxpayers should not be forced to fund stuff like this, and families should not be able to spend taxpayer funds in this way. 😞

$20 curriculum
$2700 gaming PC & accessories
$1,000 kayak
$1,000 Apple watch & airpods
$500 essential oils w curriculum
$500 garden tower
$500 digital calendar
$500 LEGO titanic

 

This makes me so angry. If I had access to that kind of money for education...I don't know that I'd be be able to spend it all!

[BakersDozen]

On 8/18/2023 at 5:58 AM, Xahm said:

I hadn't realized that Kaipod was a chain because I hadn't been attracted to their Facebook posts enough to click. I was amused, in a sad way, that they advertised their adults as being "former educators." If they are working at a school, even a pod, I'd hope they are current educators.

KaiPod, Sequoia Choice, Prenda and more moved in like leeches even before the expansion had the final vote and signing. They promised "homeschool" parents the generous amount of $1500...no, $2000...no, even better, a whopping $2500 for signing their child up while the business side kept the rest of the public funds. These businesses came under legal scrutiny for good reason, yet parents sign up like crazy for these and other "schools" which can be started by anyone with a high school diploma. It's a mess. 

[BakersDozen]

1 hour ago, Shoeless said:

This makes me so angry. If I had access to that kind of money for education...I don't know that I'd be be able to spend it all!

Oh, you would not believe the complaining by those who state that 7K/student/year is not enough!! One mom signed her kid up for private school, then was just shocked when she only had $200/semester left to spend. Other parents are in a rage that they now have to pay for their children to participate in sports at the public schools or for the "free" tech school (which homeschoolers can attend for no charge). The entitlement is...staggering. Want to have a P.E. "class" at a waterpark? Want an espresso machine from Williams Sonoma (price tag ~$1000)? Just submit a "curriculum" and you've got it! I'm not kidding - a mom used a "curriculum" to by her teenager a top of the line espresso machine.

[Shoeless]

5 minutes ago, BakersDozen said:

Oh, you would not believe the complaining by those who state that 7K/student/year is not enough!! One mom signed her kid up for private school, then was just shocked when she only had $200/semester left to spend. Other parents are in a rage that they now have to pay for their children to participate in sports at the public schools or for the "free" tech school (which homeschoolers can attend for no charge). The entitlement is...staggering. Want to have a P.E. "class" at a waterpark? Want an espresso machine from Williams Sonoma (price tag ~$1000)? Just submit a "curriculum" and you've got it! I'm not kidding - a mom used a "curriculum" to by her teenager a top of the line espresso machine.

😱

So, they don't require purchases through approved vendors? That would cut down on some of this nonsense. 

Texas doesn't have anything like this but someone agitates to get ESAs, vouchers, etc every so often. I feel like it's a matter of time before it gets approved, though, what with all the California transplants here now.  They're used to homeschool funding and can't understand why people push back against it. 

[BakersDozen]

18 minutes ago, Shoeless said:

So, they don't require purchases through approved vendors? That would cut down on some of this nonsense. 

There are approved vendors, and there is an allowed items list, but the list is kind of a joke when you consider that anyone can write a "curriculum" and submit it along with a list of things necessary for the "curriculum." So a parent could submit a swimming curriculum and list goggles and swimsuit as "required" items. Another huge issue is that the allowed items list includes things like backpacks and lunch sacks, pencils, paper, crayons - all things which the vast majority of public, private and charter school parents are purchasing for their child(ren) going back to school. Why are taxpayers footing the bill for lunch sacks??

Here's more entitlement: It's not enough that ESA students get admission to OdySea aquarium, Butterfly Garden, trampoline parks, Out of Africa, etc. covered - there are parents wanting the program to also cover gas costs to get their kids to these places. I'm not kidding.

What it comes down to is that this is forced taxpayer funding for an education option with zero follow through or assessment, so the taxpayers are footing the bill for students who may know how to kayak and ride horses but can't show any kind of academic improvement or progress. Or it's forced taxpayer funding for private schools, including religious. Even as a conservative, Republican-leaning voter, this does not sit well with me at all.

And the businesses...oh my. Here's an example: Sleezeball guy (and his wife acting as his mouth and spine) try to start a "school" for "homeschoolers" in a facility which has significant grants from the City. They are, of course, targeting ESA funds. While I am cleaning this facility, I see a group of gullible moms come through as this guy promotes his business...er, school. There are easily 20 moms in the group with an average of 3 kids each. This guy will generously (sarcasm) give $2500 back to the parents for each child, and he'll pocket the other $4000 or so. $4000 X 60 = $240,000. The "school" would not provide curriculum, just tutoring and guidance. The man and his wife are not teachers. There will not be any teachers, just "tutors" with the sole requirement being a high school diploma. It's big business.

Another thing that has popped up: Not reporting ESA income. Tutors who are making $150/hour (because friends are hiring other friend's graduated students or spouses) and not reporting the income. There was an entire discussion on an ESA forum about how to go about earning money without having it declared on taxes.

Another thing: roll-over. Don't use all of the funds? It rolls over to the next year. So families can spend $10 on a workbook and sit on the rest of the money which can be used for higher ed tuition, fees and books. "Free" college (paid for by the taxpayers, of course). Public school students don't get that. Do private school students have the money designated for them rolled over if it's not all used in a year? And yet how in the gosh darn heck would someone spend almost $7000 on one student each year (special needs/services not included in this)???

And all of this mess pushed through by an outgoing Governor who was a coward at best and knew he couldn't pull this crud without facing a recall. So he "heroically" did this in the name of school choice (never mind that AZ already had incredible school choice with homeschooling and STOs), and it passed despite twice voted down by the public.

Dang, this thing makes me so angry.

[Shoeless]

2 minutes ago, BakersDozen said:

Here's more entitlement: It's not enough that ESA students get admission to OdySea aquarium, Butterfly Garden, trampoline parks, Out of Africa, etc. covered - there are parents wanting the program to also cover gas costs to get their kids to these places. I'm not kidding.

Let me guess, they're comparing their gas expenses to the money spent bussing public school kids? "My tax dollars pay for gas for all those school buses, so why shouldn't I get reimbursed for gas?" Next they'll gripe that car payments and insurance should be covered! 

4 minutes ago, BakersDozen said:

And the businesses...oh my. Here's an example: Sleezeball guy (and his wife acting as his mouth and spine) try to start a "school" for "homeschoolers" in a facility which has significant grants from the City. They are, of course, targeting ESA funds. While I am cleaning this facility, I see a group of gullible moms come through as this guy promotes his business...er, school. There are easily 20 moms in the group with an average of 3 kids each. This guy will generously (sarcasm) give $2500 back to the parents for each child, and he'll pocket the other $4000 or so. $4000 X 60 = $240,000. The "school" would not provide curriculum, just tutoring and guidance. The man and his wife are not teachers. There will not be any teachers, just "tutors" with the sole requirement being a high school diploma. It's big business.

This is shady and predatory. It should be illegal. 

5 minutes ago, BakersDozen said:

Another thing: roll-over. Don't use all of the funds? It rolls over to the next year. So families can spend $10 on a workbook and sit on the rest of the money which can be used for higher ed tuition, fees and books. "Free" college (paid for by the taxpayers, of course). Public school students don't get that.

Some public-school students do get free community college tuition, though.  There are some places where DE is free or dirt cheap for public school kids, but homeschool students are shut out of those programs.  I personally would not rock the boat if someone was using ESA money for DE tuition, but the rest of what you are describing is not ok. 

[BakersDozen]

15 minutes ago, Shoeless said:

Some public-school students do get free community college tuition, though.  There are some places where DE is free or dirt cheap for public school kids, but homeschool students are shut out of those programs.  I personally would not rock the boat if someone was using ESA money for DE tuition, but the rest of what you are describing is not ok.

The thing is, the ESA covers tuition, etc. for CC for high school. So ESA students have the same opportunities as public school students. But public school students do not have funds rolled over as ESA students do; ESA students have access to whatever is left in their accounts for 3 years, I think, post graduation. And while I cannot speak for every homeschooler, those whom I have known over the years have been fine with not being allowed to participate in concurrent enrollment at the CC for "free." We know we don't bring any funding to the schools/district, so we don't expect to participate in things the same way as public-school students.

[Shoeless]

@BakersDozen Ah, I didn't understand that they had access to funds after graduation. That isn't ok. The funds should be used while the student is still a high school student.