Would you/should I say something? -- NEVERMIND, asked & answered!

[TheReader]

Edit --

Thanks, all! This has been asked & answered. I don't really need any more input at this point. 

Took my 2 adult kids to the eye doctor today. 

I forgot that our eye doctor has this new high-tech "pics of the back of the eye" thing, and as they usually try to sell me on it by referencing my "advanced age" it didn't dawn on me they'd try to talk the guys into it. 

Once all was said & done, sure enough, both boys had agreed to it, unbeknownst to me. So, that's $80 I would have declined if they'd bothered to check with me (as the bill payer, carrier of the insurance, responsible party, etc.) (which they know, and I was there). 

Then they automatically added the "better" anti-glare stuff ($144/each) vs. the "standard" one ($45 each), which I caught after being charged for it. That I was able to get them to refund and change to the standard (so, $200 saved, thank goodness). 

But, should I say anything to them about maybe checking with the bill paying person before adding the extra exam? Or since the kids are adults, they wouldn't be able to anyway? (I feel like at the dentist, they always check with us on things before doing them.....)

Really kind of peeved, but not sure how much the annoyance of the anti-glare stuff is coloring my annoyance of the other.  

 

Edited August 8, 2023 by TheReader

[Ottakee]

Did they ask adult kids and explain the extra fee?

[catz]

With young adults and privacy related stuff, I find this very typical.  I would kick myself about not prepping them for these questions, but I wouldn't think to say anything to a clinic about it.

The back of the eye thing, I thought our eye doctor offers instead of dilation.  I have had my young adults do it.

[Bambam]

I've always paid, and encouraged my kids when I was paying the bill, to elect the OptoMap picture vs. the dilation. I can't even drive home after my pupils are dilated - much less read the bill they give you.  We used to pay $30/person for it, but now our vision insurance covers it. 

If I wasn't willing to pay for it, I'd warn my kids before taking them again. If they want to pay the difference for it, let them pony the money up. 
 

[DeainUSA]

Sounds like they were treated like adults.  I'd use it as a teaching lesson.

[itsheresomewhere]

6 minutes ago, Bambam said:

I've always paid, and encouraged my kids when I was paying the bill, to elect the OptoMap picture vs. the dilation. I can't even drive home after my pupils are dilated - much less read the bill they give you.  We used to pay $30/person for it, but now our vision insurance covers it. 

If I wasn't willing to pay for it, I'd warn my kids before taking them again. If they want to pay the difference for it, let them pony the money up. 
 

Same here.  We all have opted for it for years with our eye doctor.  Our eye doctor has it included with his price so no extra cost.  But if it was an extra cost for us, we would pay for it. It really does have a difference to us.  None of us have had our eyes dilated in years thanks to the machine.  
 

And the upgraded anti glare is worth it.  None of us will go back to the regular.  This is one of those things worth it to us especially those on this house with crappy vision. 

Edited August 7, 2023 by itsheresomewhere

[MEmama]

I wouldn't say anything to the clinic, your adult kids were treated as...adults. Why would the technicians know who is paying the bills? And why wouldn't the technicians assume they can make their own decisions? Unless you specified in advance that you should be consulted (which is certainly valid for all sorts of reasons), I wouldn't expect healthcare practitioners to treat adults like minor children. 

 

[Mrs Tiggywinkle Again]

I am pretty sure that it doesn’t matter who is paying, privacy laws would prevent the tech or staff from consulting or asking you or even discussing their care with you.  Once someone is 18 it doesn’t matter who pays the bill, privacy trumps everything.

I always pay extra for both. The anti glare in particular is really worthwhile especially if one drives often at night. 

[TheReader]

53 minutes ago, Ottakee said:

Did they ask adult kids and explain the extra fee?

They did not explain the fee to them, no. 

[ikslo]

Even if they don’t get the imaging every time, it’s good to have a baseline image on file in case they start having trouble with their eyesight. It’s a reference point. Not money wasted.

I regret not getting the good anti-glare when I was younger just to save money. Made a big difference to me driving at night.

And I agree with the others - they are adults. You should have no expectation of being included by the staff. Have a conversation with your sons. 

[TheReader]

7 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle Again said:

I am pretty sure that it doesn’t matter who is paying, privacy laws would prevent the tech or staff from consulting or asking you or even discussing their care with you.  Once someone is 18 it doesn’t matter who pays the bill, privacy trumps everything.

I always pay extra for both. The anti glare in particular is really worthwhile especially if one drives often at night. 

We did get anti-glare, just not the $200 version of it (one is $89, cost us $45 out of pocket; one is $200+ and costs us $144 out of pocket). 

Our dentist always consults us before adding things that cost extra, so I guess I was thinking the eye place would too. 

[TheReader]

Okay, thanks, y'all. I'll remember to tell the guys next time. 

Our dentist does consult us on stuff like this, so it just caught me off guard.

[bookbard]

That's crap you have to pay extra for the back of the eye test - standard here in Australia (and the govt covers one eye check a year anyway, I think). I always remember Oliver Sacks missing an eye check one year and ending up dying because his retinal cancer wasn't caught in time. But yeah they do up sell extras on glasses, it's a pain. I still feel they're not as good as they used to be. 

[kbutton]

36 minutes ago, TheReader said:

They did not explain the fee to them, no. 

I do think that's a problem. 

I have people in my house that need the anti-glare, but it actually drives me nuts. It works by recruiting more light to see, and my eyes are too sensitive. They said about 2% of people absolutely hate it, and I am one, lol!

I think I would use it as a learning opportunity with your kids, but it's cruddy that they didn't explain all the stuff and the fees.

28 minutes ago, bookbard said:

That's crap you have to pay extra for the back of the eye test - standard here in Australia (and the govt covers one eye check a year anyway, I think). I always remember Oliver Sacks missing an eye check one year and ending up dying because his retinal cancer wasn't caught in time. But yeah they do up sell extras on glasses, it's a pain. I still feel they're not as good as they used to be. 

I think that's cool the retinal scan is standard there! I hope it becomes standard here. Vision, hearing, and dental are not considered normal parts of insurance here--it's all separate, which is terrible. Some health conditions allow a person to get their vision checked via regular insurance, but it's not common.

[wintermom]

I think that it's worth providing feedback to your eye care provider, specifically that they should be spending a few moments to explain costs. It's a little like taking advantage of young adults, particularly if the cost is under the parent's health insurance. I'd definitely say something, and if it's not taken well, look for a different clinic. Sure the exams are helpful to have, but providing full information to patients is part of health care as well. 

I love my current vet for exactly this reason. She tells me the reason for the procedure, the current cost, and when the costs are less expensive. It is all part of respecting clients, I believe.

[TheReader]

53 minutes ago, bookbard said:

That's crap you have to pay extra for the back of the eye test - standard here in Australia (and the govt covers one eye check a year anyway, I think). I always remember Oliver Sacks missing an eye check one year and ending up dying because his retinal cancer wasn't caught in time. But yeah they do up sell extras on glasses, it's a pain. I still feel they're not as good as they used to be. 

Not standard here. 

And others have mentioned in this thread it's an alternative to having the eyes dialated - our eye doctor doesn't do that as a standard, either. If you opt out of this, you just....opt out. 

We pay a $10 copay for the exam itself, then this was $39, then all the add-ons for the glasses themselves. 

[TheReader]

10 minutes ago, wintermom said:

I think that it's worth providing feedback to your eye care provider, specifically that they should be spending a few moments to explain costs. It's a little like taking advantage of young adults, particularly if the cost is under the parent's health insurance. I'd definitely say something, and if it's not taken well, look for a different clinic. Sure the exams are helpful to have, but providing full information to patients is part of health care as well. 

I love my current vet for exactly this reason. She tells me the reason for the procedure, the current cost, and when the costs are less expensive. It is all part of respecting clients, I believe.

I think that's what's bugging me is that 1, they did not explain to the guys that this extra test was a fee, and then on top of that, 2, she didn't ask me or go over choices about the glasses, either, just "so, the polycarbonite (sp?? whatever that stuff is called) lenses and the anti-glare?" to which I said yes, b/c that's what we always do, but this time she bumped it to the higher quality version (and then claimed "Oh, that's what they had last time...." -- there is no way, b/c my DH does not ever pay more than the minimum for this stuff). 

But also that's why I came and asked here about all of it, b/c I was fuming on the extra upcharge of the "better" anti-glare stuff, which I could & did get taken off, but then couldn't decide if asking for a refund or credit for them having done a test I would have counciled the kids not to do/would have declined was reasonable or not. 

DH wants me to ask about a refund of it tomorrow when I go for my appt. I'm going to go early, try to talk calmly, and we'll see what happens. I don't know that I'd insist on a refund (they did, after all, do the test...) but I *do* want to let them know that parents with adult kids, on the parents insurance, may want a heads-up about these things. 

[wintermom]

5 minutes ago, TheReader said:

I think that's what's bugging me is that 1, they did not explain to the guys that this extra test was a fee, and then on top of that, 2, she didn't ask me or go over choices about the glasses, either, just "so, the polycarbonite (sp?? whatever that stuff is called) lenses and the anti-glare?" to which I said yes, b/c that's what we always do, but this time she bumped it to the higher quality version (and then claimed "Oh, that's what they had last time...." -- there is no way, b/c my DH does not ever pay more than the minimum for this stuff). 

But also that's why I came and asked here about all of it, b/c I was fuming on the extra upcharge of the "better" anti-glare stuff, which I could & did get taken off, but then couldn't decide if asking for a refund or credit for them having done a test I would have counciled the kids not to do/would have declined was reasonable or not. 

DH wants me to ask about a refund of it tomorrow when I go for my appt. I'm going to go early, try to talk calmly, and we'll see what happens. I don't know that I'd insist on a refund (they did, after all, do the test...) but I *do* want to let them know that parents with adult kids, on the parents insurance, may want a heads-up about these things. 

That smells of sponging off their clients and I would be upset, too. Hope you get a good result when you go back! In my city, there are loads of eye clinics and dentists, so lots of competition and choice. It's very easy to walk away and look for something better. It's not the same, unfortunately with doctors or other health care. 😔

[ScoutTN]

2 hours ago, TheReader said:

They did not explain the fee to them, no. 

That is a problem.

[barnwife]

1 hour ago, TheReader said:

DH wants me to ask about a refund of it tomorrow when I go for my appt. I'm going to go early, try to talk calmly, and we'll see what happens. I don't know that I'd insist on a refund (they did, after all, do the test...) but I *do* want to let them know that parents with adult kids, on the parents insurance, may want a heads-up about these things. 

Well, even if you are the guarantor on the account (that is, the person listed as financially responsible), the patient is an adult. Therefore, without their permission, the eye people can't talk to you about it. Plus, I'm guessing that once patients turn 18, the system automatically changes them to their own guarantor. Furthermore, I also think it just doesn't occur to them to do that with adults who don't have a POA or guardian on file. So, the adult patient would have to say something up front.

Now, they absolutely should be discussing all the extra costs. But, do your adult kids know which options they've had before? 

[datgh]

We finally dropped our vision insurance because we found the providers in the insurance networks were always trying to slip things in. They would always say but you have insurance and I would reply that I am a stay at home mom and have no money to pay for the extras. Even with insurance I could get the kids glasses at Sam's Club for half the price with the bells and whistles. We also found if we went to an ophthalmologist versus and optometrist out health insurance would pay for the exam.  

 

Edited August 8, 2023 by datgh

[kathyl]

nm

Edited August 8, 2023 by kathyl

[Arcadia]

2 hours ago, TheReader said:

They did not explain the fee to them, no. 

We went to the same place every year for eye checkups. Previous years they make us sign a paper to say if we opt in or decline the image test. This time they just do and charge for my husband and DS18. My husband argued with them and the staff claimed she informed him about the tests. My husband paid $39 per person since it is already done but the next time we have an eye check up we are going to ask them to print the form for us to opt out. Majority of their ophthalmologists are great so we are willing to put up with their front desk staff. We make our glasses at Costco or Lenscrafters because we get better service there.

 

16 minutes ago, barnwife said:

Plus, I'm guessing that once patients turn 18, the system automatically changes them to their own guarantor.

My husband is still listed as DS18’s guarantor as the insurance is under my husband’s name. 
 

 

1 hour ago, TheReader said:

DH wants me to ask about a refund of it tomorrow when I go for my appt.

I don’t know if you need your kid to give you access permission to their accounts if they are 18 and above. My DS18 gave me full access so that I could talk to medical billing on his behalf if the need arises.

[barnwife]

18 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

My husband is still listed as DS18’s guarantor as the insurance is under my husband’s name. 
 

I don’t know if you need your kid to give you access permission to their accounts if they are 18 and above. My DS18 gave me full access so that I could talk to medical billing on his behalf if the need arises.

A person can be their own guarantor and have insurance that someone else is the subscriber too. Yes, once someone is adult, medical professionals aren't going to talk about patients/their care/their accounts without permission. I know for the healthcare system for which I work you can specify different kinds of contacts (such as emergency contact vs. verbal contact). 

I can just say that in the healthcare system that I work for (and all other local systems) that once someone is 18, unless they have a POA or legal guardian, the medical professionals will expect them to make decisions, and parents won't be included unless the adult patient loops them in.

[vonfirmath]

2 hours ago, TheReader said:

Not standard here. 

And others have mentioned in this thread it's an alternative to having the eyes dialated - our eye doctor doesn't do that as a standard, either. If you opt out of this, you just....opt out. 

We pay a $10 copay for the exam itself, then this was $39, then all the add-ons for the glasses themselves. 

I get the Optomap every other year (our insurance does not cover it but I do prefer it) My eyesight is bad enough my doctor has recommended I do dilation half the time to be able to view the optic nerve and the Optomap the other times to get a different view. So that is what I do. Both my kids get dilated.

 

 

[Clemsondana]

At the last 2-3 eye doctors that I've seen, the back of the eye thing was in paperwork that I filled out when I got there.  It was just a thing to sign saying that it was an option and the extra cost was X, which may or may not be covered by insurance.  I always do it because it can take hours for my eyes to undilate.  With the cost of the different glasses add-ons, I've never not had somebody mention it but it's quick.  Once I pick frames, they go through a checklist that's something like 'with your prescription, I'm guessing you want the premium material to make them thin, now for anti-glare..., and about tinting...'.  Are you sure that they didn't do any of this?  I've always found them willing to stop and explain, or let me choose a cheaper option, but the default is the top stuff.  And, having gone from getting less expensive to more expensive options over the years as my vision has gotten worse and as I'm not a student I see the advantages and wouldn"t go back

[Bambam]

I know this has been discussed here before, but this seems a good time to bring it up again.

We never buy our glasses from the eye doctor. We use 39Dollarglasses. We've also used Zenni. There are several much cheaper but good quality eye glass sites online.  Disclaimer, we all now wear contacts, and we get a glasses/contact allowance from insurance that can go either to glasses or contacts, so we use that to order contacts and fund the glasses purchase ourselves. In the last couple of years, the vision insurance company has added some online sites that you can use for your allowance at vs. just at the local eye doctor.  But we also don't wear our glasses that much. 

[TheReader]

2 hours ago, Clemsondana said:

At the last 2-3 eye doctors that I've seen, the back of the eye thing was in paperwork that I filled out when I got there.  It was just a thing to sign saying that it was an option and the extra cost was X, which may or may not be covered by insurance.  I always do it because it can take hours for my eyes to undilate.  With the cost of the different glasses add-ons, I've never not had somebody mention it but it's quick.  Once I pick frames, they go through a checklist that's something like 'with your prescription, I'm guessing you want the premium material to make them thin, now for anti-glare..., and about tinting...'.  Are you sure that they didn't do any of this?  I've always found them willing to stop and explain, or let me choose a cheaper option, but the default is the top stuff.  And, having gone from getting less expensive to more expensive options over the years as my vision has gotten worse and as I'm not a student I see the advantages and wouldn"t go back

I am positive they did not do it. The lady who processes the glasses order talked to me directly - each of my sons brought over the glasses they wanted, handed them to her, and she asked me "so, you want the lighter lenses and the anti-glare?" and I said yes. Only when she gave the total, and it was very high, I asked why it was so much and was that with the insurance (b/c I thought she was charging for the frame or something). She assured me it was with insurance, gave me the total before insurance, and said "they have the exam co-pay, the back of eye picture, the lighter lenses, the anti glare, that's it..."  Even then she did not stop and say anything about putting in the higher quality anti-glare stuff. 

She printed the first receipt out while she processed the next one, and it was while she was processing that one I was able to look over the itemized receipt and discovered the mistake/upcharge. I asked her if there was a lesser option, as I didn't remember it being that much before. At that point she claimed that's what we did last year (no way), and said how glad she was I caught it while still there and could still do the refund.  She reversed both, and recreated the orders with the lesser quality/standard anti-glare (which, as only one of them even drives, let alone at night, should be more than sufficient). 

Now, to muddy things even more, when she processed the 1st one, she told me it didn't go through and had to rerun it. She did not have me sign anything on that one, just said it didn't even go through at all, she couldn't even figure out what happened, etc., and needed to redo it. Only, in checking to make sure the 2 reversals went through (they did) turns out the first charge (of too much) DID go through. So, that's the main goal this morning, explain that and get that reversed. DH calmed down enough to admit that since the kids did, in fact, have the extra test, we don't really need to push for a refund of that (though I will still let them know they need to make the extra fee more clear to all their patients). 

 

[vonfirmath]

The last time we went to the eye doctor, my son decided NOT to get anti-glare at all to save us money.

The first time he put on the glasses, there was SO MUCH glare he couldn't even read a book (Inside the house) So we went back and had them remade with anti-glare.  I have always gotten the anti-glare as a matter of course (Didn't know there were different versions) but had not realized it made THAT much of a difference. Now I know not to try that experiment.

[kbutton]

17 hours ago, TheReader said:

Not standard here. 

And others have mentioned in this thread it's an alternative to having the eyes dialated - our eye doctor doesn't do that as a standard, either. If you opt out of this, you just....opt out. 

That's completely unprofessional. There are people who require dilated exams for a variety of reasons (my son has a health condition that requires it). That's short-sighted and enough that I would change practices. 

14 hours ago, vonfirmath said:

I get the Optomap every other year (our insurance does not cover it but I do prefer it) My eyesight is bad enough my doctor has recommended I do dilation half the time to be able to view the optic nerve and the Optomap the other times to get a different view. So that is what I do. Both my kids get dilated.

Does the mapping not look at the nerve? 

[vonfirmath]

31 minutes ago, kbutton said:

That's completely unprofessional. There are people who require dilated exams for a variety of reasons (my son has a health condition that requires it). That's short-sighted and enough that I would change practices. 

Does the mapping not look at the nerve? 

It does. But evidently they see different things through the two different methods. I am taking my doctor's advice.

 

[cjzimmer1]

4 hours ago, TheReader said:

 She reversed both, and recreated the orders with the lesser quality/standard anti-glare (which, as only one of them even drives, let alone at night, should be more than sufficient). 

The antiglare works for so many more things than just night driving.  It's for screens too and I'm sure they use a screen at some point every day.  When things are too bright, we squint it's a natural reaction, so natural in fact, it's really easy to not even be aware of how much we are exposed in every day life.   I totally understand trying to keep the cost down and I normally get the lowest cost option of everything else but high grade antiglare nope that is not negotiable.  It's one of the things things, where you don't know what you are missing until you try them and for me once I tried it there was no going back.

But you are right they should be discussing these options with you before just assuming what you want.  My eye doctor does the eye imaging on everyone but you are only charged if she opens the file and looks at it.  My DH struggles so with anything in/around his eyes that he can't do dilation without someone, physically prying his eyes open (I was about ready to kill him when he got pink eye and I had to but drops in multiple times a day for however long it took but his reflex to keep those eyes closed is that strong), so he has them look at the scan, everyone else in my family knows, if they opt to have the doctor look at the scan instead of doing dilation, they are paying for it.  So long before my kids adult years, they already know to decline it.  It's such a stupid thing the way it's run though and I don't blame you for being irritated my it all.

[Clarita]

My optometrist makes us sign a piece of paper acknowledging the eye-imaging thing and that I may have to pay extra for it (the price is on the piece of paper. In terms of glass lenses, my optometrist is also really good about breaking down the options and the pricing. 

You can gripe to the optometrist about all this, but I would also really take this opportunity to teach your sons to be cognizant of these things and ask all the questions even if it makes you look "cheap" or whatever. Teach them not to be ashamed to check the invoices and receipts, and to ask if something is going to cost extra and what are the options when things are offered. There are going to be scenarios in adult life where people are hoping to upcharge you and hope you don't ask. 

I don't know the technical rules are about asking the payee vs the adult patient about costs and procedures. Now that they are adults they need to recognize that people aren't always going to run it by their parents first even if the parents are paying.   

[TheReader]

1 hour ago, cjzimmer1 said:

The antiglare works for so many more things than just night driving.  It's for screens too and I'm sure they use a screen at some point every day.  When things are too bright, we squint it's a natural reaction, so natural in fact, it's really easy to not even be aware of how much we are exposed in every day life.   I totally understand trying to keep the cost down and I normally get the lowest cost option of everything else but high grade antiglare nope that is not negotiable.  It's one of the things things, where you don't know what you are missing until you try them and for me once I tried it there was no going back.

But you are right they should be discussing these options with you before just assuming what you want.  My eye doctor does the eye imaging on everyone but you are only charged if she opens the file and looks at it.  My DH struggles so with anything in/around his eyes that he can't do dilation without someone, physically prying his eyes open (I was about ready to kill him when he got pink eye and I had to but drops in multiple times a day for however long it took but his reflex to keep those eyes closed is that strong), so he has them look at the scan, everyone else in my family knows, if they opt to have the doctor look at the scan instead of doing dilation, they are paying for it.  So long before my kids adult years, they already know to decline it.  It's such a stupid thing the way it's run though and I don't blame you for being irritated my it all.

Well, re: the bolded, with 5 people in the family needing glasses, and at a cost difference of $100 per person, we will just have to stick to the "cheap" anti-glare stuff (which still costs us $45/ea out of pocket). 

As it is, getting the "basics", I dropped over $400 on just 3 of us this week, another $100+ on the youngest last week, and however much DH paid for his contacts plus he still needs to add bifocal glasses, which he hasn't done yet. 

 

[TheReader]

Just now, Clarita said:

My optometrist makes us sign a piece of paper acknowledging the eye-imaging thing and that I may have to pay extra for it (the price is on the piece of paper. In terms of glass lenses, my optometrist is also really good about breaking down the options and the pricing. 

You can gripe to the optometrist about all this, but I would also really take this opportunity to teach your sons to be cognizant of these things and ask all the questions even if it makes you look "cheap" or whatever. Teach them not to be ashamed to check the invoices and receipts, and to ask if something is going to cost extra and what are the options when things are offered. There are going to be scenarios in adult life where people are hoping to upcharge you and hope you don't ask. 

I don't know the technical rules are about asking the payee vs the adult patient about costs and procedures. Now that they are adults they need to recognize that people aren't always going to run it by their parents first even if the parents are paying.   

Yes, thank you, that's been sufficiently covered in this thread (and is what I started my own dumb post with in the first place - that I should have thought to talk to the guys ahead of time, but...) 

 

[Clarita]

Just now, TheReader said:

Yes, thank you, that's been sufficiently covered in this thread (and is what I started my own dumb post with in the first place - that I should have thought to talk to the guys ahead of time, but...)

I know, this sort of stuff just sneaks through before you know it. My parents had a similar incident happen with me before I got the big talk about checking and asking too. (For me it was also at the optometrist and getting glasses with all the bells and whistles.) 

[kbutton]

3 hours ago, vonfirmath said:

It does. But evidently they see different things through the two different methods. I am taking my doctor's advice.

My doctor offers either, but I have not heard the limitations yet. I might alternate knowing this. It could be that they will also tell me I need a dilated exam next time—it’s still new to our office, so it’s possible they plan to have us alternate now and then.