Law school decisions for 23 year old dd

[SanDiegoMom]

So my dd is 23 and will be attending law school in the fall.  She does want a little guidance as she has been accepted to two schools, though I am sure she will end up making her own choice. The deadline is rapidly approaching.

She has a full ride to UC Irvine, which is very close to home.

She just got off the waitlist to Georgetown, which is a T14 but obviously is across the US and she won't get any money.

She has ADHD which can be sometimes a lot for her to manage, and she can find herself in tricky situations bc of it.  

Everything I hear says prestige matters, but my risk averse personality things she would be foolish to give up a full ride.

She has always been ambitious,  but her thinking is that she will go all in to corporate law to pay off her debts and after that go public service.  But her personality is such that if she really hates something, she literally cannot make herself do it.  So I could see this turning out really badly. 

Anyone with btdt law school advice? @Lawyer&Mom @SeaConquest

Edited May 31, 2023 by SanDiegoMom

[mlktwins]

Congratulations to your DD!!! That is amazing.

Please don't quote as I will delete this later today or tomorrow.

Deleted 🙂

 

Edited June 8, 2023 by mlktwins

[ScoutTN]

I would take the free ride close to home, hands down. 

[SanDiegoMom]

@mlktwins Thank you for this insight.  I think when they are young, they don't realize what long hours can actually feel like, day in and day out with no end in sight.  My husband was deployed and his hours were often crazy long.  His work environment, while dangerous at times, had much more fulfillment and sense of purpose than I would imagine slaving away at corporate law just to pay off debt would have.  But we just don't really have much insight as we know so few lawyers well to ask!

[SanDiegoMom]

5 minutes ago, ScoutTN said:

I would take the free ride close to home, hands down. 

Ikr?  This kid (now adult) has always been the most challenging and least likely to listen to us. Always determined to go her own way.  My younger dd said to me "I don't know why [older dd] always says not to listen to your advice, mom.  When you give me advice, things always work out for me and I end up much happier."  

 

[Corraleno]

Not a lawyer, but I've had lots of friends who were lawyers and I seriously considered it myself at one point (admitted to law school with a full ride, but then got offered an awesome job with an international nonprofit in Los Angeles and went that direction instead). The people I've known who did corporate law mostly hated it and either switched to something less demanding or left the profession altogether. If what she really wants to do is public service, it really makes no sense to go into huge debt for Georgetown and then sacrifice several years doing corporate to pay off the debt, when she could take the full ride to UC and go directly into the kind of law she really wants to practice. 

I do get that it can be hard to turn down a prestigious admission, because it feels like a validation of your worth, and turning that down for a lower ranked school can feel like you're giving up a prize that most people would kill for and settling for something "less." DS had choices ranging from full pay at several elite privates (including an Ivy) or full-ride/near-full-ride at a couple of large flagships. A lot of friends and extended family thought he was crazy to give up an Ivy, but he graduated top of his class with money in the bank and no regrets.

Also, as a parent of a kid with serious ADHD who had a lot of challenges managing executive function tasks in college, I can say that having him close to home would have made things so much easier. 

 

[SeaConquest]

TLDR: This is a no-brainer. Take the full ride.

I chose my school based on prestige/networking/job and clerkship placement/location, with the understanding that the school's public interest loan repayment program would enable me to work in the public interest (I wanted to be a federal prosecutor). Once I was actually at the school, the details of the loan repayment program became clear, and I realized that I could not afford my loans on a public interest salary (my loans were 185k+ in total at graduation -- my parents did not pay any money for college, I financed 7 years of private ugrad + law from grants, working almost FT throughout ugrad/summers in law school, military benefits, and loans).

I went to a T3 law school. Even in the bottom half of my class, I had my pick of T25 law firms with the exception of places like Cravath or Wachtell, where my SCOTUS/feeder Circuit-clerking classmates went. I was active in the Republican Party back then (I assume part of my hook was that I was a conservative woman), so I spent my first summer clerking in the scorched earth litigation department for a rather infamous (in political/legal circles) conservative law firm. I was even on a trial team (BIGLAW cases seldom go to trial). However, for a variety of reasons too numerous to list here, I soon realized that I had zero desire to work in BIGLAW. I fell into a severe depression and wanted to drop out of law school, but I was already 85K down in loans (35K left from ugrad + the 50k I just added 1L year) and my ex-husband convinced me to press on. I decided that, if I couldn't work in public interest after school, I would adopt a quick exit strategy and make as much money as possible.

I quickly realized that the real money was on Wall Street, so instead of working at a law firm during my second summer, I worked as a summer associate in a major investment bank. Unfortunately, a few weeks after I left New York, psychos with boxcutters flew two airplanes into the buildings across the street, Wall Street was decimated (technology stocks, especially), and my graduation prospects for an associate position in tech m&a quickly evaporated with the market contraction. I moved home to So Cal, pivoted back to law, worked in securities litigation for a large firm, and hated it.  I was trapped by loans and although I was a good lawyer, I was a miserable person.

My doctor eventually convinced me to walk away from my job, but I have so much anxiety from the experience, I never practiced law again. I literally got an entire other degree in nursing vs practicing law again. But, that is just one story about the impact debt had on me. I have another friend from law school who trained with Olympic hunter-jumpers in college. She quit BIGLAW within a few years for the same reasons and now owns a business selling high-end saddles. Most of the rest quit because the lifestyle can be punishing and not very friendly to families. But several of my classmates are now judges, law/finance/consulting partners, professors, politicians, government officials, and writers -- many even happily so. But, I have noticed that many of those classmates tended to come from generational wealth (expensive boarding school --> Ivy --> HYS) and have more support (from wives, nannies, housekeepers, tutors, etc.) than those who were burdened by school debt + mortages + child/healthcare costs + retirement, and left the law over time (usually after burning out in BIGLAW).

I have a friend from ugrad who turned down my law school because she got a full ride at UVA. I thought she was insane at the time. How could she turn down the offer? But, she was the valedictorian of our ugrad, and so much smarter than me! She had a lovely experience at UVA, graduated debt free with an awesome clerkship, has had a great career as a public interest lawyer, and has 2 lovely kids (one in HS and one at an Ivy). She currently helps place other students into clerkships at UVA. In hindsight, based on my anecdotal life experience, she made the better choice. Given your daughter's situation, being 2e and having to take on a ton of debt to attend GULC, I strongly recommend she attend UCI.         

 

 

Edited May 31, 2023 by SeaConquest

[SeaConquest]

46 minutes ago, SanDiegoMom said:

@mlktwins Thank you for this insight.  I think when they are young, they don't realize what long hours can actually feel like, day in and day out with no end in sight.  My husband was deployed and his hours were often crazy long.  His work environment, while dangerous at times, had much more fulfillment and sense of purpose than I would imagine slaving away at corporate law just to pay off debt would have.  But we just don't really have much insight as we know so few lawyers well to ask!

I routinely worked 80-100 hours/week in investment banking and 60-80 as a securities litigator. I never took vacation, even though we had unlimited vacation time, because I couldn't ever get away from work and our bonuses were tied to billable hours (so every hour away from work I quantified to the point of driving myself insane -- I couldn't event stand in line at CVS without losing my shit because I felt under so much pressure to spend my very expensive time efficiently). It was a horrific existence.

[SanDiegoMom]

@SeaConquest Thank you so much for sharing your experience.  I knew some of it, but not the extent.  And the things I intuited (about the generational wealth vs the ppl there on full ride) I just don't have the experience to state, even though it seems obvious those are the only ones able to HAVE the luxury of choice after graduating. 

I hope you are much happier now in nursing, your journey has been so difficult! 

[prairiewindmomma]

Does her full ride have a GPA requirement, and what would happen if she can't meet that? I ask because in my 1L cohort, a number of the students could not keep a GPA over 3.5. They were transitioning from being big fish in a little sea to being in a very competitive environment where classes were graded on a curve.

ITA with the above otherwise. 

Also, she should know that she should try to make the law review. It's highly relevant for her summer internship placements. A lot of those seats will go to people with legacy connections, and if she's working her way in from the outside, she'll need some weight from her GPA and from law review to help her get placed.

[SeaConquest]

53 minutes ago, SanDiegoMom said:

Ikr?  This kid (now adult) has always been the most challenging and least likely to listen to us. Always determined to go her own way.  My younger dd said to me "I don't know why [older dd] always says not to listen to your advice, mom.  When you give me advice, things always work out for me and I end up much happier."  

 

I was that same motivated young woman. Nothing could stop me. I did it all on my own, my way. And that big fat acceptance made all the sacrifice feel like it was worth it. So, I get it. The problem is: that shine from the validation of a fancy law school pedigree tends to dim over time; the stress of loan burdens don't seem to fade quite as fast IME.

If she wants to chat offline, I am happy to talk to her anytime. 

[SeaConquest]

1 minute ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Does her full ride have a GPA requirement, and what would happen if she can't meet that? I ask because in my 1L cohort, a number of the students could not keep a GPA over 3.5. They were transitioning from being big fish in a little sea to being in a very competitive environment where classes were graded on a curve.

ITA with the above otherwise. 

Also, she should know that she should try to make the law review. It's highly relevant for her summer internship placements. A lot of those seats will go to people with legacy connections, and if she's working her way in from the outside, she'll need some weight from her GPA and from law review to help her get placed.

This is a very important point! Another friend of mine turned down Chicago (!!!) to attend Loyola Marymount on scholarship to be with her boyfriend (eyeroll). He turned out to be abusive, she got sick with mono, her grades at LMU tanked, and she lost her scholarship. It was a disaster all around! 

[SeaConquest]

1 hour ago, SanDiegoMom said:

@mlktwins Thank you for this insight.  I think when they are young, they don't realize what long hours can actually feel like, day in and day out with no end in sight.  My husband was deployed and his hours were often crazy long.  His work environment, while dangerous at times, had much more fulfillment and sense of purpose than I would imagine slaving away at corporate law just to pay off debt would have.  But we just don't really have much insight as we know so few lawyers well to ask!

I am happy to put her in touch with other lawyers, as well. My biggest advice to people wanting to go into law is to shadow lawyers. See what they really do and how they really live day-to-day, and make an informed decision after due diligence. Neither of my parents have college degrees, so I had no mentoring from them. I should have had my ugrad help me, but I didn't know what I didn't know. 

Edited May 31, 2023 by SeaConquest

[SanDiegoMom]

2 hours ago, SeaConquest said:

I am happy to put her in touch with other lawyers, as well. My biggest advice to people wanting to go into law is to shadow lawyers. See what they really do and how they really live day-to-day, and make an informed decision after due diligence. Neither of my parents have college degrees, so I had no mentoring from them. I should have had my ugrad help me, but I didn't know what I didn't know. 

I will check with her and see if she is willing -- I really appreciate the offer.  The deadline is quickly approaching and she is just riding the wave of congratulations coming in from all those around.  Rose tinted glasses abound.  

Tonight my husband and I (by her request) will be sitting down with spreadsheets out to go through the budgeting for both schools, and then he will help her weight all the variables in terms of importance (location, debt, prestige, future career path, etc) and help her really refine her thinking better.  We have done this process for all major decisions after our great housing bubble debacle of 2006-2008.  

 

Edited May 31, 2023 by SanDiegoMom

[SanDiegoMom]

48 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Does her full ride have a GPA requirement, and what would happen if she can't meet that? I ask because in my 1L cohort, a number of the students could not keep a GPA over 3.5. They were transitioning from being big fish in a little sea to being in a very competitive environment where classes were graded on a curve.

ITA with the above otherwise. 

Also, she should know that she should try to make the law review. It's highly relevant for her summer internship placements. A lot of those seats will go to people with legacy connections, and if she's working her way in from the outside, she'll need some weight from her GPA and from law review to help her get placed.

Her full ride is from the very generous Calvet Waiver that CA gives for dependents of retired military.  It's amazing (I guess to make up for the fact our pension is taxed, unlike most other states!!)  So there is no GPA requirement. 

[catz]

The free option seems like the obvious choice here, great school, close to support, so much to love!

We are not lawyers here but for some reason just know a lot of people who've attended law school.  Over half of them are not practicing law and have gone down other roads further in your career.  Life is rarely linear.  Especially for a young person with ADHD tendancies, having the flexiblity to just change paths without that debt over your head is a HUGE win IMO.  

[Sneezyone]

I attended law school as a FT state employee and quit as a 3L to care for DD. I was soooooo burned out, commuting 6-7 hrs a day (not a typo). My mom is a lawyer. My uncle and grandfather were lawyers. Take the full ride. No question. Going from the hood/rural community to Wall Street solo (without MAJOR connections) isn't likely. I'd have been much better served working my master's degree (which was free) to the fullest.

Edited June 1, 2023 by Sneezyone

[rzberrymom]

I could *maybe* see taking such a risk for Harvard or Yale law, especially if she had dreams of clerking for the Supreme Court or going into politics. But no way would I give up a free ride for full pay at Georgetown.

And what if it’s true that AI will begin to make lawyers obsolete? It’s all happening so fast now:

“One new study, by researchers at Princeton University, the University of Pennsylvania and New York University, concluded that the industry most exposed to the new A.I. was “legal services.” Another research report, by economists at Goldman Sachs, estimated that 44 percent of legal work could be automated.” A.I. Is Coming for Lawyers, Again

[Roadrunner]

@madteaparty

[Eos]

One of my bonus kids is at Georgetown Law (homeschooled K-12, small LAC undergrad.)  He talks about the extra pressure-cooker factor that is the proximity to power in DC - great for some, soul-sucking for others. 

[SanDiegoMom]

50 minutes ago, Eos said:

One of my bonus kids is at Georgetown Law (homeschooled K-12, small LAC undergrad.)  He talks about the extra pressure-cooker factor that is the proximity to power in DC - great for some, soul-sucking for others. 

This is for some reason the biggest draw. And I will say that she suffered through UCLA which she said was pressure cooker and sink or swim (or at least she perceived it to be and definitely struggled throughout).  But she feels like it was worth it and she would do it all over again.  She wants pressure and stress.

My other two kids are so much more like me.  They want security, closeness, safety nets, and my younger daughter especially wants to just coast.  However my oldest takes after her father, and I will say he has worked so hard all his life, and thrived throughout many stressful situations over the years.  They both achieve most under pressure. 

 

[J-rap]

I vote for the free ride school, and I have to believe Irvine is a good school!  

My dh is an attorney who attended an ivy league for a masters, but chose a solid law school in our home state for his law degree after that.  He had a great career, and would tell you that it was an excellent path.  The only reason I'd choose Georgetown over a quality free-ride school is if your child had such high ambitions that they felt Georgetown would hands down give them that opportunity.  (Such as being a supreme court justice.)  Or, if your child really wanted to be an east-coast lawyer and knew they wanted to settle in that area.

My dh is a go-getter and was planning to enter politics with his degree, and I don't think a degree from the school he chose would have prevented that from happening.  As it turns out, other things prevented that from happening but the school he attended was fine.

[Lawyer&Mom]

For a 2E kid I would strongly consider going into government.  Much, much better work life balance than Big Law and better salaries than a lot of public interest law.  (You don’t need to go to Georgetown to get into government.)  Debt-free with no GPA restriction sounds pretty darn amazing.  I would choose Irvine.  

[madteaparty]

19 hours ago, rzberrymom said:

I could *maybe* see taking such a risk for Harvard or Yale law, especially if she had dreams of clerking for the Supreme Court or going into politics. But no way would I give up a free ride for full pay at Georgetown.

And what if it’s true that AI will begin to make lawyers obsolete? It’s all happening so fast now:

“One new study, by researchers at Princeton University, the University of Pennsylvania and New York University, concluded that the industry most exposed to the new A.I. was “legal services.” Another research report, by economists at Goldman Sachs, estimated that 44 percent of legal work could be automated.” A.I. Is Coming for Lawyers, Again

I wish AI would be able to take over my job. I’m really not worried though. 

[madteaparty]

ETA that I’m happy to chat if she’d find it useful. I only know Biglaw in NYC and in-house asset management though.
Have not read responses other than the AI one that jumped at me due to scrolling, does this kid know what they want to do? If they’re interested in the local market/non profit/local government yes by all means take the free ride and be at top of class and they will be fine. 

however, speaking frankly, for myself and my kids (and, say, DS’s gf who’s looking into this) never would I make that choice. Nope. I gave up almost full rides (forget the exact amounts honestly but it was material) at then-local to me very good private law schools to go to the highest ranked school I was accepted to (think top 40 versus top 10) That was my choice 5 million years ago and that’s my advice now. Go to the higher ranked school and leave for yourself all the options open. If the kid is set for on working in non profits though, then taking all those loans may not make sense. If they don’t know, go the route that gives most optionality.

and people complain about the large law firm lifestyle. I don’t know, I find it pretty okay. Certainly there are a lot of lower paying jobs with similar amounts of stress so 🤷‍♀️

Edited June 1, 2023 by madteaparty

[SanDiegoMom]

I appreciate everyone's responses, it really helps us refine our thinking and hopefully my daughter will appreciate even more now how useful the "Hive Mind" is.  🙂  

[SanDiegoMom]

1 hour ago, madteaparty said:

ETA that I’m happy to chat if she’d find it useful. I only know Biglaw in NYC and in-house asset management though.
Have not read responses other than the AI one that jumped at me due to scrolling, does this kid know what they want to do? If they’re interested in the local market/non profit/local government yes by all means take the free ride and be at top of class and they will be fine. 

however, speaking frankly, for myself and my kids (and, say, DS’s gf who’s looking into this) never would I make that choice. Nope. I gave up almost full rides (forget the exact amounts honestly but it was material) at then-local to me very good private law schools to go to the highest ranked school I was accepted to (think top 40 versus top 10) That was my choice 5 million years ago and that’s my advice now. Go to the higher ranked school and leave for yourself all the options open. If the kid is set for on working in non profits though, then taking all those loans may not make sense. If they don’t know, go the route that gives most optionality.

and people complain about the large law firm lifestyle. I don’t know, I find it pretty okay. Certainly there are a lot of lower paying jobs with similar amounts of stress so 🤷‍♀️

Thank you for this -- it is important to hear the cases when things actually do work out as well as the times when they don't.  Her father (whom she takes after in personality) has been through many different lengthy periods of stress and difficult hours.  The difference is he was doing it in service of his country and had a close knit community with the Marines he served with.   She is also more interested in public service, and I worry if she bets everything on Biglaw for the first few years she will really crash and burn.  However we will most likely step in to help before it comes to that.  We wouldn't be super thrilled but we at least have the ability to help.  

The next two kids are going to be so much easier to launch, I just feel it! 

[madteaparty]

17 minutes ago, SanDiegoMom said:

Thank you for this -- it is important to hear the cases when things actually do work out as well as the times when they don't.  Her father (whom she takes after in personality) has been through many different lengthy periods of stress and difficult hours.  The difference is he was doing it in service of his country and had a close knit community with the Marines he served with.   She is also more interested in public service, and I worry if she bets everything on Biglaw for the first few years she will really crash and burn.  However we will most likely step in to help before it comes to that.  We wouldn't be super thrilled but we at least have the ability to help.  

The next two kids are going to be so much easier to launch, I just feel it! 

The kids these days seem to be really more immune to crashing and burning than I was a long time ago. And I am saying this only with admiration, not “kids these days…”. I wish I had some of the skills that seem to come naturally to the younger generation. I’m not being facetious. 

[SanDiegoMom]

1 hour ago, madteaparty said:

ETA that I’m happy to chat if she’d find it useful.

Messaging you. 

[KSera]

15 minutes ago, madteaparty said:

The kids these days seem to be really more immune to crashing and burning than I was a long time ago. And I am saying this only with admiration, not “kids these days…”. I wish I had some of the skills that seem to come naturally to the younger generation. I’m not being facetious. 

In our world it seems the reverse. Life seems to be harder for the current younger generations than when we were that age, and getting out and independent on their own seems a lot more difficult. I wish I was seeing more of what you are though. 

[madteaparty]

32 minutes ago, KSera said:

In our world it seems the reverse. Life seems to be harder for the current younger generations than when we were that age, and getting out and independent on their own seems a lot more difficult. I wish I was seeing more of what you are though. 

I was talking strictly to work life balance issues. I had a junior associate ask for work and then very clearly delineate for me when she was going on vacation and would be completely unavailable. This is beyond admirable as I cannot bring self to do such things (I’m going camping with two screens, just in case 🤣🤣) 

[KSera]

3 minutes ago, madteaparty said:

I was talking strictly to work life balance issues. I had a junior associate ask for work and then very clearly delineate for me when she was going on vacation and would be completely unavailable. This is beyond admirable as I cannot bring self to do such things (I’m going camping with two screens, just in case 🤣🤣) 

Oh, I see what you’re saying. You mean as far as requiring better work/life balance and advocating for themselves as far as that goes. I think that’s probably true. There’s both more awareness, but also I think it’s born out of pure necessity because I think a smaller portion of current young people are able to continue operating if they are overstretched like that, for better and for worse. Better to be proactive and prevent that situation from occurring in the first place. I don’t think people used to have the luxury of doing that and still keeping their jobs, though.

[madteaparty]

2 hours ago, KSera said:

Oh, I see what you’re saying. You mean as far as requiring better work/life balance and advocating for themselves as far as that goes. I think that’s probably true. There’s both more awareness, but also I think it’s born out of pure necessity because I think a smaller portion of current young people are able to continue operating if they are overstretched like that, for better and for worse. Better to be proactive and prevent that situation from occurring in the first place. I don’t think people used to have the luxury of doing that and still keeping their jobs, though.

Yes exactly. 

[matrips]

On 5/31/2023 at 1:31 PM, Corraleno said:

I do get that it can be hard to turn down a prestigious admission, because it feels like a validation of your worth, and turning that down for a lower ranked school can feel like you're giving up a prize that most people would kill for and settling for something "less."

I don’t get why a full ride isn’t considered a humongous prize by people!  There are so few merit based full rides offered to kids.  And this one is for law school! I wish more people would appreciate the rare prize that it is and be extremely congratulatory.  We coached our kids that the full ride was the prize they had worked toward.  Getting the chance to go heavily into debt isn’t much of a prize imo. Lol.  But it is nice to be accepted.

Congratulations to your dd!

[Lawyer&Mom]

1 hour ago, matrips said:

I don’t get why a full ride isn’t considered a humongous prize by people!  There are so few merit based full rides offered to kids.  And this one is for law school! I wish more people would appreciate the rare prize that it is and be extremely congratulatory.  We coached our kids that the full ride was the prize they had worked toward.  Getting the chance to go heavily into debt isn’t much of a prize imo. Lol.  But it is nice to be accepted.

Congratulations to your dd!

Law school employment prospects vary widely by the ranking of your law school.  UC Irvine is ranked 35th, Georgetown is ranked 15th.  This is actually a huge difference.  The top 15 schools are elite.  My school was ranked 20th when I attended and there was a huge difference between my school and the 15th ranked school I visited my third year.  We felt lucky to have a job offer, those kids all seemed to have multiple job offers.  There are law schools I would not attend for free.  The top 10% of the lower ranked schools will probably be fine, but I would not assume I would be in the top 10% of a given school.   I think UC Irvine for free is better than paying for Georgetown, but reasonable people could disagree. 

[easypeasy]

Seems to me that, since she is interested in nonprofit law, having zero debt and, therefore, being able to practice law in a nonprofit environment right out of the gates would be a huge blessing!!

Am reading this thread with interest as two of mine have their eye on law school and, as first-gen college graduates, they are muddling through so much of this on their own. I'm trying to learn everything I can to be a good sounding board for them when their time comes.

[Sneezyone]

My friend went to a top 40 law school, served as a public defender, and is now a judge in LA. Another, who went to a top 10, as many law grads do, doesn’t practice law. When you have a strong public service bent, debt is the bigger enemy. Money, pay, prestige isn’t the draw and won’t help you. Shoe leather in public and nonprofit orgs will. The hiring professionals aren’t hung up on the name on your paper; most of them didn’t go there themselves.

Edited June 4, 2023 by Sneezyone

[Frances]

18 hours ago, Lawyer&Mom said:

Law school employment prospects vary widely by the ranking of your law school.  UC Irvine is ranked 35th, Georgetown is ranked 15th.  This is actually a huge difference.  The top 15 schools are elite.  My school was ranked 20th when I attended and there was a huge difference between my school and the 15th ranked school I visited my third year.  We felt lucky to have a job offer, those kids all seemed to have multiple job offers.  There are law schools I would not attend for free.  The top 10% of the lower ranked schools will probably be fine, but I would not assume I would be in the top 10% of a given school.   I think UC Irvine for free is better than paying for Georgetown, but reasonable people could disagree. 

But doesn’t geography also matter? There are no elite law schools in my state. I work with a number of lawyers and also always read the bios of candidates for judges when we vote or when they are appointed. It’s incredibly rare to come across a lawyer here who went to an elite law school. Most attended one of the local law schools which are all ranked far lower than UC Irvine. Yet they hold a variety of prestigious and well paying jobs, both public and private. I can see ranking matter much more if one wants to be able to live or work anywhere in the US.

[Sneezyone]

1 hour ago, Frances said:

But doesn’t geography also matter? There are no elite law schools in my state. I work with a number of lawyers and also always read the bios of candidates for judges when we vote or when they are appointed. It’s incredibly rare to come across a lawyer here who went to an elite law school. Most attended one of the local law schools which are all ranked far lower than UC Irvine. Yet they hold a variety of prestigious and well paying jobs, both public and private. I can see ranking matter much more if one wants to be able to live or work anywhere in the US.

If you have a kiddo who's all about money and prestige, is disciplined enough to live on scraps for a while and pay debt quickly, and wants to be able to move around not just locally but globally...big law and the highest ranked school you can get into makes some sense. If your kid wants a full and balanced life before they're 30, plans to stay within their region (even big city regions), it doesn't make any sense at all. What the legal profession really needs is the professional equivalent of PAs but that'll happen when pigs fly. Know the kid, know the path.

Edited June 4, 2023 by Sneezyone

[EmilyGF]

On 6/3/2023 at 4:59 PM, Lawyer&Mom said:

Law school employment prospects vary widely by the ranking of your law school.  UC Irvine is ranked 35th, Georgetown is ranked 15th.  This is actually a huge difference.  The top 15 schools are elite.  My school was ranked 20th when I attended and there was a huge difference between my school and the 15th ranked school I visited my third year.  We felt lucky to have a job offer, those kids all seemed to have multiple job offers.  There are law schools I would not attend for free.  The top 10% of the lower ranked schools will probably be fine, but I would not assume I would be in the top 10% of a given school.   I think UC Irvine for free is better than paying for Georgetown, but reasonable people could disagree. 

My understanding is that law school employment has changed a lot in the past 20 years. While any school might have made sense 20 years ago, now people need to be much more selective.

OTOH, it is amazing how many ex-lawyers I know. Just on my block of 20 houses alone, there are 3 ex-lawyers. One is a SAHM, one runs admissions at a private school, and another runs Title 9 compliance at a large private school. All three say they hated practicing law.

Emily

[SanDiegoMom]

21 hours ago, EmilyGF said:

My understanding is that law school employment has changed a lot in the past 20 years. While any school might have made sense 20 years ago, now people need to be much more selective.

OTOH, it is amazing how many ex-lawyers I know. Just on my block of 20 houses alone, there are 3 ex-lawyers. One is a SAHM, one runs admissions at a private school, and another runs Title 9 compliance at a large private school. All three say they hated practicing law.

Emily

I hear this a lot.  However my husband has an engineering major (hated it, tried to switch out but couldn't), an MBA, and is abd for a Ph.D. in public policy.  He learned a lot from all the programs, and the was helped in getting the job he has because of two out of three of those degrees.  

Hoping this will be a case where even if she doesn't stay practicing law, the degree will still provide some long term benefits career-wise. 

[SanDiegoMom]

She's made her decision.  Georgetown bound!

Edited June 10, 2023 by SanDiegoMom

[easypeasy]

On 6/9/2023 at 12:47 PM, EmilyGF said:

OTOH, it is amazing how many ex-lawyers I know. Just on my block of 20 houses alone, there are 3 ex-lawyers. One is a SAHM, one runs admissions at a private school, and another runs Title 9 compliance at a large private school. All three say they hated practicing law.

One of my likely-law-school-bound student's end goal has nothing whatsoever to do with actually practicing the law. If they DO practice law following school/bar, it will only be to briefly gain a specific type of experience before moving into their ideal career. I find it funny that they already know - years ahead of time - that they will go through the pricey and grueling experience of law school, study mercilessly to pass the bar, and then ride off into the sunset in another direction entirely. 😅 But, the kid's plan is well-calculated and it's a good one. Just funny. (they'll never experience the lawyer burnout, though! haha!)

[madteaparty]

On 6/10/2023 at 11:04 AM, SanDiegoMom said:

She's made her decision.  Georgetown bound!

Congratulations! As you know, I’m very supportive of this decision. Pls have her ping me when in DC.

[SanDiegoMom]

Just thought I would give a little update - DD23 got on the plane yesterday for DC.  Compared to  some disastrous moving experiences in college with lots of emotional turmoil, this one she planned within an inch of her life and it went very smoothly.  Even moving herself into an empty apartment with three giant suitcases at 11 pm was no issue. Moving truck comes tomorrow with her Uhaul pod, she’s been in contact with the movers, and they expect about an hour since she’s got such a small pod 😂.  

This is my ADHD kid who really struggled with the last two years being home - and I can totally see how hard it is to grow for some personalities when they aren’t out on their own.  Now I can honestly say I am excited rather than anxious about this! 
 

Next step is in January when she will be renting a car here and road tripping with friends back to DC so she can move her dog in to the apartment!