Living in a camper long term

[lewelma]

There is a holiday park near us with permanent caravans (the one room kind that attach to the back of a car). Each of these caravan owners has checked to see the largest size of an attached room that is allowed without a permit. So each caravan has an attached room of about 12 foot by 12 foot (maybe bigger?). The room cannot have electricity or water since it has no permit, but they can run extension cords for light and heat. So basically they can increase the size by about double to make it liveable, cheap, and without a permit. Just an idea.

ETA: caravan is a NZ word for camper. 

Edited October 14, 2022 by lewelma

[lewelma]

I have also lived in a cabin with a composting toilet. But don't know how legal it was. You would need to check the code for your area and learn how to do it safely and environmentally.

[Melissa in Australia]

10 hours ago, Pawz4me said:

No, I don't think that would necessarily be how it would be done. It would of course depend on the individual situation, though, and what arrangements were acceptable to each party. I absolutely would not want to be in a situation where I had to leave my home (the camper) every time I needed to use the bathroom or wanted to take a shower. 

 Sometimes people need to think. The rich person mindset they have is not the only way to live. Especially when trying to save. 

In my little coastal village there is a caravan park with permanant residences in old caravans. None of them have toilets in their caravans. all of them use the amenities block. Every singe one if them. 

 

 One of my sons last year was renting out a converted carport in someones back yard. He paid $190week and was glad to be able to have somewhere to live. He used the amenities in his landlords house. 

[Melissa in Australia]

4 hours ago, DawnM said:

I am always curious why people suggest yurts.   Why would you suggest this over a trailer/camper?

Cause it is the latest fashion

[lewelma]

My dh and I did live for 6 months in a one room cabin (150sqft) with no heat, water, or electricity and a composting toilet with a baby in the winter. We used a gas heater and gas cooker, and candles for light. We had water from a hose we could use but it would freeze over night so we had to plan ahead. We did have access to a house for showers and laundry. We loved it. It was a very special time for us. I really think your experience depends on your attitude going in.

[lewelma]

3 minutes ago, Melissa in Australia said:

 Sometimes people need to think. The rich person mindset they have is not the only way to live. Especially when trying to save. 

In my little coastal village there is a caravan park with permanant residences in old caravans. None of them have toilets in their caravans. all of them use the amenities block. Every singe one if them. 

Yes, I think that residents of the caravan park I was talking about use the amenities block. It is a lovely community.

[Melissa in Australia]

11 minutes ago, lewelma said:

There is a holiday park near us with permanent caravans (the one room kind that attach to the back of a car). Each of these caravan owners has checked to see the largest size of an attached room that is allowed without a permit. So each caravan has an attached room of about 12 foot by 12 foot (maybe bigger?). The room cannot have electricity or water since it has no permit, but they can run extension cords for light and heat. So basically they can increase the size by about double to make it liveable, cheap, and without a permit. Just an idea.

ETA: caravan is a NZ word for camper. 

Same here in Australia. All people living there use the amenities block

[Melissa in Australia]

My dh best friend lived 2 years including winters in a tent in Canada. There is warm clothing and bedding available to make these things possable. Not that I would recomend living out in a Canadian winter with a baby, 

[Katy]

If you’re going to convert a shed to a guest house, look up the price list of materials first. It’s probably better to buy them yourself rather than buy a kit of something you still have to build. 

[ktgrok]

11 hours ago, Melissa in Australia said:

I am not sure I understand. that is was way it was forever.  it is a very very recent thing that young people think they have to have everything that their parents took 30 years to get when they set up house. People once use to live very simply for the first few years after getting married, and save .

 

Maybe it is different in Australia, but my parents certainly had running water and flush toilets right when they got married. They were 19 and 21, my mom was an LPN and my dad was a fisherman. They had VERY little money - as in when I was little we mainly ate the fish dad caught, and he would start the day not knowing how he'd afford to feed us that night if he didn't catch enough. We were in South Florida and I didn't have A/C until I was in jr. high, as our house didn't have central air and we certainly couldn't afford to have it put in. Sometimes we had a working window unit for one room...but not most of that time. 

Still, they could afford an apartment when they got married, even if it wasn't a great area, and then bought that little house with no AC in a good school district in a working class neighborhood a few years later. 

Having rent be too expensive even in a tiny place for two working professionals with degrees is what is the recent thing. (now, if you mean having brand new cars, eating out every meal, buying furniture new rather than using hand me downs or finding stuff on the curb for free..I totally agree with you - that's the stuff you do after you have worked for years and years and made your way up the ladder.)

But shelter? It's not a new thing to think that working full time should be enough to pay for shelter, with acceptable insulation and working toilets. 

[fairfarmhand]

8 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

Maybe it is different in Australia, but my parents certainly had running water and flush toilets right when they got married. They were 19 and 21, my mom was an LPN and my dad was a fisherman. They had VERY little money - as in when I was little we mainly ate the fish dad caught, and he would start the day not knowing how he'd afford to feed us that night if he didn't catch enough. We were in South Florida and I didn't have A/C until I was in jr. high, as our house didn't have central air and we certainly couldn't afford to have it put in. Sometimes we had a working window unit for one room...but not most of that time. 

Still, they could afford an apartment when they got married, even if it wasn't a great area, and then bought that little house with no AC in a good school district in a working class neighborhood a few years later. 

Having rent be too expensive even in a tiny place for two working professionals with degrees is what is the recent thing. (now, if you mean having brand new cars, eating out every meal, buying furniture new rather than using hand me downs or finding stuff on the curb for free..I totally agree with you - that's the stuff you do after you have worked for years and years and made your way up the ladder.)

But shelter? It's not a new thing to think that working full time should be enough to pay for shelter, with acceptable insulation and working toilets. 

Yes, these are two college graduates (she's cutting back hours because of new baby, but still, they weren't rolling in the dough even before that). They are living very very frugally. They have no debt, drive ratty old cars that break down, shop at Goodwill and eat meat maybe once or twice a week. 

Things have just gotten so expensive so very quickly in the last few years. 

My dh and I got married in 1997. We were able to afford rent, groceries, gas and pay off 35K in debt in 2 years. We also lived simply but affording rent on a small house with a yard. A tiny apartment would have been even cheaper. 

 

Edited October 14, 2022 by fairfarmhand

[lewelma]

8 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

Maybe it is different in Australia, but my parents certainly had running water and flush toilets right when they got married. They were 19 and 21, my mom was an LPN and my dad was a fisherman. They had VERY little money - as in when I was little we mainly ate the fish dad caught, and he would start the day not knowing how he'd afford to feed us that night if he didn't catch enough. We were in South Florida and I didn't have A/C until I was in jr. high, as our house didn't have central air and we certainly couldn't afford to have it put in. Sometimes we had a working window unit for one room...but not most of that time. 

Still, they could afford an apartment when they got married, even if it wasn't a great area, and then bought that little house with no AC in a good school district in a working class neighborhood a few years later. 

Having rent be too expensive even in a tiny place for two working professionals with degrees is what is the recent thing. (now, if you mean having brand new cars, eating out every meal, buying furniture new rather than using hand me downs or finding stuff on the curb for free..I totally agree with you - that's the stuff you do after you have worked for years and years and made your way up the ladder.)

But shelter? It's not a new thing to think that working full time should be enough to pay for shelter, with acceptable insulation and working toilets. 

My mother grew up in a basement for 2 years where they would squat over a drain to urinate and go to the neighbor's house to defecate. This was in 1950 and my grandfather was a chemist working for Monsanto. My grandfather was personally building their first house above them when he got home from work, and this is how they saved money. 

Edited October 14, 2022 by lewelma

[ktgrok]

49 minutes ago, lewelma said:

My mother grew up in a basement for 2 years where they would squat over a drain to urinate and go to the neighbor's house to defecate. This was in 1950 and my grandfather was a chemist working for Monsanto. My grandfather was personally building their first house above them when he got home from work, and this is how they saved money. 

Like I said, maybe things are different in different places. I cannot say that a chemist working for a large company not having working plumbing for their family was typical here. At all. 

[lewelma]

1 minute ago, ktgrok said:

Like I said, maybe things are different in different places. I cannot say that a chemist working for a large company not having working plumbing for their family was typical here. At all. 

It was in Alabama. 

[ktgrok]

3 minutes ago, lewelma said:

It was in Alabama. 

And they could not afford to have indoor plumbing? Or he made the choice to do without? And do you feel that was a typical thing?

[bookbard]

I think outside loo would've been common for a lot of people (we had one in the 1970s!) but no running water would not have been common, well, for non-Indigenous people anyway. The state of housing for Indigenous people is still pretty terrible in remote areas in Australia.

There's a terrible shortage of rental properties at the moment, and a lot of it is the air bnb issue. It's very hard for renters and I feel for them very much.

[itsheresomewhere]

1 hour ago, Katy said:

If you’re going to convert a shed to a guest house, look up the price list of materials first. It’s probably better to buy them yourself rather than buy a kit of something you still have to build. 

Depending on where they are, some are discounting already built ones as they don’t want to store them over winter.  They want fresh ones without any paint fading for next spring/summer. 

[Katy]

3 minutes ago, itsheresomewhere said:

Depending on where they are, some are discounting already built ones as they don’t want to store them over winter.  They want fresh ones without any paint fading for next spring/summer. 

This is true.  Plus, some big box stores sell "kits" including all materials and floor plans for a discount because you purchase everything through them.  If combined with a sale you might get the materials for 25% off that way.

[prairiewindmomma]

1 hour ago, itsheresomewhere said:

Depending on where they are, some are discounting already built ones as they don’t want to store them over winter.  They want fresh ones without any paint fading for next spring/summer. 

This. Housing prices are so crazy here our local big box hardware stores advertise sheds as convertible to living space. And, they do sell them off this time of year.

[pinball]

1 hour ago, ktgrok said:

And they could not afford to have indoor plumbing? Or he made the choice to do without? And do you feel that was a typical thing?

Millions of homes today in the US don’t have indoor plumbing. 

[catz]

9 minutes ago, pinball said:

Millions of homes today in the US don’t have indoor plumbing. 

Is that something we are shooting to normalize in 2022?  Frankly, I'm pretty fond of my young adults having accessible indoor plumbing and electricity and not acting like that is a huge privlege in the richest country in the world.  Seems like going backward in standard of living.  

[Melissa in Australia]

3 hours ago, ktgrok said:

Maybe it is different in Australia, but my parents certainly had running water and flush toilets right when they got married. They were 19 and 21, my mom was an LPN and my dad was a fisherman. They had VERY little money - as in when I was little we mainly ate the fish dad caught, and he would start the day not knowing how he'd afford to feed us that night if he didn't catch enough. We were in South Florida and I didn't have A/C until I was in jr. high, as our house didn't have central air and we certainly couldn't afford to have it put in. Sometimes we had a working window unit for one room...but not most of that time. 

Still, they could afford an apartment when they got married, even if it wasn't a great area, and then bought that little house with no AC in a good school district in a working class neighborhood a few years later. 

Having rent be too expensive even in a tiny place for two working professionals with degrees is what is the recent thing. (now, if you mean having brand new cars, eating out every meal, buying furniture new rather than using hand me downs or finding stuff on the curb for free..I totally agree with you - that's the stuff you do after you have worked for years and years and made your way up the ladder.)

But shelter? It's not a new thing to think that working full time should be enough to pay for shelter, with acceptable insulation and working toilets. 

There woukd be very few houses for rent in Australia with wall Insulation at all and Having an inside  toilet  has only been around for the last 30 years. Even today many older houses you need to go out side the back door and there is a little room that was added on that has the toilet

 

Nobody was talking about having no access to facilities anyway. But rather using the ones in the house. 

 

 

[ktgrok]

26 minutes ago, Melissa in Australia said:

There woukd be very few houses for rent in Australia with wall Insulation at all and Having an inside  toilet  has only been around for the last 30 years. Even today many older houses you need to go out side the back door and there is a little room that was added on that has the toilet

 

Nobody was talking about having no access to facilities anyway. But rather using the ones in the house. 

 

 

Ah, okay, that has not been true here, for those who are professionals in working class or middle class neighborhoods, for a very long time. In rural poor areas, or even urban poor, yes. But not in typical working class or higher. 

[prairiewindmomma]

RVs are built to provide structure that is lightweight enough to be mobile. As such, they are…fragile. If you watch videos of them being made (Jayco has one) it’s eye opening. It’s about 6 hours of time if it doesn’t have slides, etc. They generally have quality issues somewhere, right off the line, and then there are ongoing leaks and maintenance issues. Add to that being in a boondocking situation rather than hooked up to water and sewer and that’s another layer of stress.

If this is their “avoid homelessness” option, great, but this is not a light choice…and certainly not like what Instagram portrays. It works for some people—I have family that did it every winter—but it takes a certain degree of determination and grit…

[pinball]

1 hour ago, catz said:

Is that something we are shooting to normalize in 2022?  Frankly, I'm pretty fond of my young adults having accessible indoor plumbing and electricity and not acting like that is a huge privlege in the richest country in the world.  Seems like going backward in standard of living.  

What are you even talking about? 
 

I don’t know your kids or their plumbing situation.
 

[Melissa in Australia]

11 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

Ah, okay, that has not been true here, for those who are professionals in working class or middle class neighborhoods, for a very long time. In rural poor areas, or even urban poor, yes. But not in typical working class or higher. 

It is very very common for just starting out professionals to house share

 My  oldest is working as a research scientist on Melbourne He is an aerospace engineer. He house shares with a university professor, and some other highly qualified professional.  His share of the rent before amenities is just over 2k a month. 

 

Edited October 15, 2022 by Melissa in Australia

[Melissa in Australia]

4 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

RVs are built to provide structure that is lightweight enough to be mobile. As such, they are…fragile. If you watch videos of them being made (Jayco has one) it’s eye opening. It’s about 6 hours of time if it doesn’t have slides, etc. They generally have quality issues somewhere, right off the line, and then there are ongoing leaks and maintenance issues. Add to that being in a boondocking situation rather than hooked up to water and sewer and that’s another layer of stress.

If this is their “avoid homelessness” option, great, but this is not a light choice…and certainly not like what Instagram portrays. It works for some people—I have family that did it every winter—but it takes a certain degree of determination and grit…

Here if a person has a caravan in their backyard semi permanent they put a roof over the whole thing.. Like a carport roof.. They also often add an annexe which is an attached room. Can be bought from any caravan supplier. 

[pinball]

1 minute ago, Melissa in Australia said:

It is very very common for just starting out professionals to house share

 My  oldest is working as a research scientist He is an aerospace engineer. He house shares with a university professor, and some other highly qualified professional.  

 

There used to be a poster on here whose had kids who supposedly slept in their cars in the summer when they worked or went to school different places. not all kids, not every summer…but she mentioned it often enough that I remember it. She was pretty proud of them for their resourcefulness and thriftiness.

Im pretty sure she deleted her entire account.

[ktgrok]

28 minutes ago, Melissa in Australia said:

It is very very common for just starting out professionals to house share

 My  oldest is working as a research scientist on Melbourne He is an aerospace engineer. He house shares with a university professor, and some other highly qualified professional.  His share of the rent before amenities is just over 2k a month. 

 

Right,, and that is common now here as well. But it wasn't not very long ago, at least here. 

[2squared]

I personally would focus on increasing income before I resorted to living in a camper with a kid for a couple years. Increasing income would include working hours opposite my spouse to avoid daycare expense and working more hours overall. 

New grads in the workforce should see their salaries increase quickly over their first couple years, and the market is strong right now for job hopping for increased salaries. 

I wouldn’t push to buy a house until I was more stable financially. Buying a house is expensive too, and once that purchase is made, it’s difficult to chase more lucrative employment prospects. 
 

if this was one of my kids, I would probably just give my kids cash to help out. I would rather give my kids money than pay the increased electric and food expense. 

[prairiewindmomma]

35 minutes ago, Melissa in Australia said:

Here if a person has a caravan in their backyard semi permanent they put a roof over the whole thing.. Like a carport roof.. They also often add an annexe which is an attached room. Can be bought from any caravan supplier. 

They have them here too. They are kind of a necessity if you live somewhere where it hails.  They are about $3000 (price dependent on size).  

I think part of the challenge is that the setup they need to be dry and warm for long-term living is going to be a shellout of funds much more than a year's rent.  House sharing, and house sharing somewhere where they don't both have long commutes, is likely to be more affordable and more comfortable for a 1-2 year scenario.

 

[prairiewindmomma]

I live in a HCOL area......I literally have at least 8-10 homeless people within a block of me.  These are carless persons with tents or tarps. Within a couple of miles of me, there are also a lot of people who are boon docking either in trucks with camper tops or in RV and several more encampments of people with tents. We have people regularly becoming homeless in my neck of the woods as rent increases happen and people simply cannot pay. There are families who couch surf in my kids' schools, and most of my neighborhood is multigenerational, with grandparents, parents, and kids all house sharing. 

The very vast majority of all of them would jump at the chance to live in their own clean, safe place with laundry facilities and proper utilities. 

Instead of couching things as "young people must pay their dues" we should perhaps rephrase this as---isn't it terrible that you can have working families that can't afford proper shelter and healthy food? Isn't it terrible that we have allowed corporations to buy up so much housing and jack the rents that families can no longer buy into housing? ITA with the above poster that we shouldn't normalize not being able to have proper shelter. It was something my generation started off with, and my parent's generation before that.  Trying to compare us to the 1950s is about as apt as trying to compare the 1950s to the 1880s (70 years between each time period). Of course expectations have changed since then.

Edited October 15, 2022 by prairiewindmomma

[ktgrok]

18 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

They have them here too. They are kind of a necessity if you live somewhere where it hails.  They are about $3000 (price dependent on size).  

I think part of the challenge is that the setup they need to be dry and warm for long-term living is going to be a shellout of funds much more than a year's rent.  House sharing, and house sharing somewhere where they don't both have long commutes, is likely to be more affordable and more comfortable for a 1-2 year scenario.

 

Agree - but house sharing may be hard with a baby. A lot of potential roomates won't want to deal with a baby crying at night, etc. And of course, you have to be careful who you live - and who they have over - when you have kids in a way that isn't quite the same when you are a single person or even a couple. It's a real issue. 

4 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

 

Instead of couching things as "young people must pay their dues" we should perhaps rephrase this as---isn't it terrible that you can have working families that can't afford proper shelter and healthy food? Isn't it terrible that we have allowed corporations to buy up so much housing and jack the rents that families can no longer buy into housing?

All this. When we were selling our house last year almost all the offers were cash offers from corporations looking to rent it out - at sky high prices I'm sure. We chose an offer that was conventionally financed, not cash, and not quite the highest offer, because it was an actual couple who were trying to buy their first house and had lost out in bidding 12 times! Their lease had run out and they were staying with family and about to give up. 

[lewelma]

9 hours ago, ktgrok said:

And they could not afford to have indoor plumbing? Or he made the choice to do without? And do you feel that was a typical thing?

I think that generations in the past were willing to scrimp and save when young and do without luxuries so that they would have a better future. I think that this attitude is rarer today. My grandparents could absolutely have rented a very nice apartment, or even maybe bought a small house on his first salary, but by living in the basement and building the house himself, he drastically increased his long term wealth. Compounding money saved when young ends up worth a LOT when you are old. By the time he was 50, my grandparents owned a house that could sleep 26 (none of it inherited). My point is that I would absolutely encourage young people (even with a baby) to live on the cheap and save their money so that they can have a nice life in the future. 

I have lived without running water and had to use a toilet in the shared house. It was simply not a big deal. 

Edited October 15, 2022 by lewelma

[Melissa in Australia]

35 minutes ago, lewelma said:

I think that generations in the past were willing to scrimp and save when young and do without luxuries so that they would have a better future. I think that this attitude is rarer today. My grandparents could absolutely have rented a very nice apartment, or even maybe bought a small house on his first salary, but by living in the basement and building the house himself, he drastically increased his long term wealth. Compounding money saved when young ends up worth a LOT when you are old. By the time he was 50, my grandparents owned a house that could sleep 26 (none of it inherited). My point is that I would absolutely encourage young people (even with a baby) to live on the cheap and save their money so that they can have a nice life in the future. 

I have lived without running water and had to use a toilet in the shared house. It was simply not a big deal. 

thank you so much. 

 exactly what I was trying to convey. it is a whole different attitude.- With way better outcomes than the self indulgent attitude we see so much of nowadays with young people thinking they should have everything it took their parents years and years to save up for,

Edited October 15, 2022 by Melissa in Australia

[Pawz4me]

2 hours ago, Melissa in Australia said:

thank you so much. 

 exactly what I was trying to convey. it is a whole different attitude.- With way better outcomes than the self indulgent attitude we see so much of nowadays with young people thinking they should have everything it took their parents years and years to save up for,

I can't (of course) speak for what you see on the other side of the world, but here in my little corner I simply don't see that attitude. What I see are a lot of hard working young people who, due to circumstances almost entirely beyond their control, are struggling to gain ground financially. I'm older than most on here, and I get so sick of the tired old "young people nowadays" trope. It's utterly ridiculous, IMO. But again-- that's what I see here. Maybe young people are lazy and spoiled in other parts of the country and the world. I only know what I see here. Personally, I never lived w/o my own solid walls complete with running water, toilets, electricity and heat. And call me crazy but I don't expect my kids to do w/o those things either.

[ktgrok]

6 hours ago, lewelma said:

I think that generations in the past were willing to scrimp and save when young and do without luxuries so that they would have a better future. I think that this attitude is rarer today. My grandparents could absolutely have rented a very nice apartment, or even maybe bought a small house on his first salary, but by living in the basement and building the house himself, he drastically increased his long term wealth. Compounding money saved when young ends up worth a LOT when you are old. By the time he was 50, my grandparents owned a house that could sleep 26 (none of it inherited). My point is that I would absolutely encourage young people (even with a baby) to live on the cheap and save their money so that they can have a nice life in the future. 

I have lived without running water and had to use a toilet in the shared house. It was simply not a big deal. 

None of this makes any sense to me, honestly. I see NO value in a man (who goes off to work where there are flushing toilets and hot water) having his young family living in a hole in the ground with no toilets or running water so that later he can have two dozen bedrooms, vs renting a safe comfortable apartment for that year, and maybe in the end only having a house that can sleep a normal number of people. It seems to imply both that doing without indoor plumbing is "not a big deal" but also that being very wealthy later is a "nice life" that is a good and virtuous goal. 

My brain and soul would say a middle ground would be better both early on and later on, vs living in a hole in the ground now so I can have a mansion later. 

But I also reject the idea that indoor plumbing is a foolish luxury that college educated professionals shouldn't expect to have until later in their lives. 

[plansrme]

13 hours ago, pinball said:

Millions of homes today in the US don’t have indoor plumbing. 

Not true. 471,000 homes in the U.S. do not have indoor plumbing, and I would hazard a guess that a good chunk of those are intentionally so, i.e., focused, intentional off-grid homesteaders.

[pinball]

5 minutes ago, plansrme said:

Not true. 471,000 homes in the U.S. do not have indoor plumbing, and I would hazard a guess that a good chunk of those are intentionally so, i.e., focused, intentional off-grid homesteaders.

Darn! My evil plan of over-stating the number of homes w/o indoor plumbing in the US has been thwarted. 🙄

(Pssst…still represents over a million souls without what many people in the US would consider a necessity)
 

[catz]

The young adults that aren't thrifting and scrapping are likely those that have families that have the means to help them launch more than others.  There are ways to live on the cheap without choosing to live in squalor.   I don't know any of these mysterious posh young people just launching that are spending hand over fist.  Living without "modern amenities" like a toilet and heat and water doesn't make you a better person.  It might make you a less healthy person.  

I do think choosing to marry and have kids early can be a harder financial choice with long term implications.  

[pinball]

10 minutes ago, catz said:

The young adults that aren't thrifting and scrapping are likely those that have families that have the means to help them launch more than others.  There are ways to live on the cheap without choosing to live in squalor.   I don't know any of these mysterious posh young people just launching that are spending hand over fist.  Living without "modern amenities" like a toilet and heat and water doesn't make you a better person.  It might make you a less healthy person.  

I do think choosing to marry and have kids early can be a harder financial choice with long term implications.  

No indoor plumbing = squalor?

since when?

 

[hshibley]

Is it even legal to have a residence with no indoor plumbing and running water? I can’t imagine it being an acceptable residence and pass zoning. A communal bathroom in a rooming house I could see but you still have water and plumbing. 

[Wheres Toto]

Just now, hshibley said:

Is it even legal to have a residence with no indoor plumbing and running water? I can’t imagine it being an acceptable residence and pass zoning. A communal bathroom in a rooming house I could see but you still have water and plumbing. 

It probably varies in different parts of the country and world.   Way less likely in any kind of incorporated town/city limits, but possible in rural outlying areas.    We are technically not even allowed to have someone living in an RV on our property in our town, and there are very strict rules about access to utilities. 

I grew up in poverty.  Extremely poor, single mom who didn't have a high school diploma until I was a teen.   We lived with family in crowded conditions when I was really young, in inexpensive "garden" apartments when I was school age.   We often didn't have heat, toilet water might freeze in winter, we didn't have any extras, just barely enough food but we did always have a roof, walls and running water.   

I definitely don't see young people (I have a 28 year old daughter) just spending indiscriminately having a great old time while not thinking about the future at all.  I see young people living with parents, sharing apartments, and working hard trying to save enough to feel like they have any choices at all. 

I do think around the 80's there was more of an attitude of not scrimping so much you can't enjoy life now, because you never know if you're even going to make it to old age.  

[catz]

3 minutes ago, hshibley said:

Is it even legal to have a residence with no indoor plumbing and running water? I can’t imagine it being an acceptable residence and pass zoning. A communal bathroom in a rooming house I could see but you still have water and plumbing. 

This is definitely true in different parts of the US.  We couldn't build a guest home or plop a camper for someone to live in on our property without getting permits and following pretty strict code.  They actually changed codes recently to make it easier to like build a mother in law apartment in your garage or have a tiny home in your back yard.  But it still would require water/electric/heat (upper Midwest) to be zoned for living and if it were a rental, you'd be subject to those regulations.  

[hshibley]

1 minute ago, Wheres Toto said:

It probably varies in different parts of the country and world.   Way less likely in any kind of incorporated town/city limits, but possible in rural outlying areas.    We are technically not even allowed to have someone living in an RV on our property in our town, and there are very strict rules about access to utilities. 

I grew up in poverty.  Extremely poor, single mom who didn't have a high school diploma until I was a teen.   We lived with family in crowded conditions when I was really young, in inexpensive "garden" apartments when I was school age.   We often didn't have heat, toilet water might freeze in winter, we didn't have any extras, just barely enough food but we did always have a roof, walls and running water.   

I definitely don't see young people (I have a 28 year old daughter) just spending indiscriminately having a great old time while not thinking about the future at all.  I see young people living with parents, sharing apartments, and working hard trying to save enough to feel like they have any choices at all. 

I do think around the 80's there was more of an attitude of not scrimping so much you can't enjoy life now, because you never know if you're even going to make it to old age.  

Yeah the RV or shed in back would be illegal here. I know crappy apartments are part of life. I’ve never known anyone who lives completely without plumbing. There was an example earlier in the thread about a family living in a dwelling to save money where they were urinating in a drain due to lack of a toilet. I find that shocking. 

[plansrme]

2 hours ago, pinball said:

Darn! My evil plan of over-stating the number of homes w/o indoor plumbing in the US has been thwarted. 🙄

(Pssst…still represents over a million souls without what many people in the US would consider a necessity)
 

Let's be clear that you said "millions of homes," which does not even pass the smell test and is easily disprovable. I doubt you have an evil plan, but if you are going to be bizarrely combative, you need to be called out on your made-up statistics.

[pinball]

8 minutes ago, plansrme said:

Let's be clear that you said "millions of homes," which does not even pass the smell test and is easily disprovable. I doubt you have an evil plan, but if you are going to be bizarrely combative, you need to be called out on your made-up statistics.

I am well and truly called out. Consider me thoroughly rebuked. Clearly.

(pssst…still over a million souls without what many people in the US would consider a necessity)

 

[Corraleno]

The idea that running water and a toilet are luxuries that adults with college degrees should be willing to live without in 21st century America just absolutely boggles my mind. So now we've gone from "millennials should give up avocado toast and expensive coffee to save for a house" to "Gen Z should just give up toilets and running water"??? 

 

[Catwoman]

2 hours ago, hshibley said:

Is it even legal to have a residence with no indoor plumbing and running water? I can’t imagine it being an acceptable residence and pass zoning. A communal bathroom in a rooming house I could see but you still have water and plumbing. 

It's not legal where I live. People can't even live in a nice RV on their property when they are remodeling their homes. In one of our neighborhoods, it's not even legal to have a travel trailer or RV visible on your property; it must be garaged and the garage must be closed (so something like a carport would not be acceptable.)

 

[pinball]

5 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

The idea that running water and a toilet are luxuries that adults with college degrees should be willing to live without in 21st century America just absolutely boggles my mind. So now we've gone from "millennials should give up avocado toast and expensive coffee to save for a house" to "Gen Z should just give up toilets and running water"??? 

 

Where did anyone say that?