Good cop/Bad cop

[fraidycat]

Venty, vent, vent! I'm so freaking tired of being the bad cop parent. Ugh!

[saraha]

I’m sorry. I’m always the bad cop too. It sucks. Is there any way you can just go do something nice just for you?

[fraidycat]

10 minutes ago, saraha said:

I’m sorry. I’m always the bad cop too. It sucks. Is there any way you can just go do something nice just for you?

Sitting on my couch, knowing that my kids are safe at home vs. being out on icy, slushy, crappy highways at midnight (my bad cop moment today) is my something nice. 
 

[Harriet Vane]

You have my fullest sympathy. I'm always the bad cop parent, too.

[athena1277]

2 minutes ago, fraidycat said:

Sitting on my couch, knowing that my kids are safe at home vs. being out on icy, slushy, crappy highways at midnight (my bad cop moment today) is my something nice. 
 

Be glad you were able to make that decision for them.  Dd19 is in college and was rehearsing for an upcoming production yesterday.  They were supposed to go off campus to rehearse last night.  I looked at the radar and told her it was a bad idea because there would be snow and ice before they got back.  Since I don’t have a say, I got a call at 9:30 from dd in full panic mode.  It was canceled son after they got there, but they couldn’t get back.  She was in a warm place and I thought they would have to stay the night, but they were finally able to leave and get back after 10:30.  I was not a happy mom.  

[Harriet Vane]

9 minutes ago, fraidycat said:

Sitting on my couch, knowing that my kids are safe at home vs. being out on icy, slushy, crappy highways at midnight (my bad cop moment today) is my something nice. 
 

Ironically, I had to draw a similar line just a few days ago when I insisted that dh not drive over a notoriously dangerous, steep mountain pass during a snowstorm at night. Far better to get a hotel room for ds on the other side of the pass and fetch him in the morning after plows and sun could do their good work. 

Good for you. It costs nothing to be prudent, and it could cost everything to be reckless for no good reason.

[HomeAgain]

When oldest ds was a teen, I spent a lot of time practicing saying, "I love you enough to say no."

He thanked me for it when he was an adult.  Will youngest ds do the same? 🤣 Probably not.  The child is determined to continue pushing boundaries and not caring about life altering consequences.  But in one sentence I can totally be the annoying, buzzkilling parent who simultaneously gets to be overbearing and boundary setting so they can live another day.

[Carrie12345]

i know it sucks, but it’s better than the alternative!

A few storms back, my dd decided she knew better than me.  Later that night, I was screaming over the phone for her *not to come home.  The driver’s mom later sent her thanks for “grounding” them. This storm, dd listened and rearranged her plans.

 

[shawthorne44]

We'd had that problem for a bit.   DH knew he was doing that, and he kind-of liked it even though we both agree that parents shouldn't try to be their kid's friend.  It was impacting DD and I's relationship.    He is a good guy and didn't like that (once he eventually saw it)  Then I decided to stop being the bad cop when he would be the one impacted.  That changed things.   

[fraidycat]

1 hour ago, Carrie12345 said:

i know it sucks, but it’s better than the alternative!

A few storms back, my dd decided she knew better than me.  Later that night, I was screaming over the phone for her *not to come home.  The driver’s mom later sent her thanks for “grounding” them. This storm, dd listened and rearranged her plans.

 

I wish it was storming. That'd be easier. DS was in the car with me a few weeks ago as I drove through a storm... in town, I was just picking him up from work. Visibilty was absolute zero - couldn't even see the end of the hood of the car in parts of it and I think that sufficiently reminded him that snow and wind is no joking matter.

But no, we are in the deceptively "nice weather" part of the year where the frost comes out of the ground during the day, then turns into a skating rink at night when it drops below freezing. It's one thing if it were an adult driving and could make the call to stay in the city (75 miles away) vs. drive home after the movie. But, it was to be an SUV full of 15/16 year old boys being driven by an 18 year old older brother.

Edited March 13, 2022 by fraidycat

[fairfarmhand]

1 hour ago, fraidycat said:

I wish it was storming. That'd be easier. DS was in the car with me a few weeks ago as I drove through a storm... in town, I was just picking him up from work. Visibilty was absolute zero - couldn't even see the end of the hood of the car in parts of it and I think that sufficiently reminded him that snow and wind is no joking matter.

But no, we are in the deceptively "nice weather" part of the year where the frost comes out of the ground during the day, then turns into a skating rink at night when it drops below freezing. It's one thing if it were an adult driving and could make the call to stay in the city (75 miles away) vs. drive home after the movie. But, it was to be an SUV full of 15/16 year old boys being driven by an 18 year old older brother.

Sometimes I've been in this situation and as soon as I said no, the other parents began chiming in. It was like they were waiting for someone to actually be an adult and when I started the chain, they backed me up. I'm sorry your kid is mad at you.

My niece wrecked this morning probably totaling her car that she's only had for a few months. Driving a little too fast on the snow and ice. It happens too fast.

[fraidycat]

11 minutes ago, fairfarmhand said:

Sometimes I've been in this situation and as soon as I said no, the other parents began chiming in. It was like they were waiting for someone to actually be an adult and when I started the chain, they backed me up. I'm sorry your kid is mad at you.

My niece wrecked this morning probably totaling her car that she's only had for a few months. Driving a little too fast on the snow and ice. It happens too fast.

I hope she is OK!

[fairfarmhand]

4 minutes ago, fraidycat said:

I hope she is OK!

Oh, yes, she is fine, but it did scare her. I forgot to add that part of the story.

[Farrar]

When I've been in that situation, I've usually gone to dh and been like, you are helping create this dynamic and I'm sick of it. Dh usually is like, oh, I did not understand or see that. And then helps turn it around. YMMV on the feasibility of that of course.

[Catwoman]

23 hours ago, shawthorne44 said:

We'd had that problem for a bit.   DH knew he was doing that, and he kind-of liked it even though we both agree that parents shouldn't try to be their kid's friend.  It was impacting DD and I's relationship.    He is a good guy and didn't like that (once he eventually saw it)  Then I decided to stop being the bad cop when he would be the one impacted.  That changed things.   

Why shouldn’t a parent try to be their kid’s friend? Why can’t you be both a parent and a friend?

Edited March 13, 2022 by Catwoman
Typo!

[Catwoman]

20 hours ago, fairfarmhand said:

Oh, yes, she is fine, but it did scare her. I forgot to add that part of the story.

In the long run, this scare could be the best thing that ever happened to her, because now she realizes how quickly an accident can happen, and that driving in bad conditions can be very dangerous. 

I’m so glad she wasn’t hurt!

[shawthorne44]

2 hours ago, Catwoman said:

Why shouldn’t a parent try to be their kid’s friend? Why can’t you be both a parent and a friend?

 

Because you have to be the parent.    Trying to be your kid's friend leads to things like parents providing the alcohol for the high schooler to party in their house.   Trying to be your child's friend generally leads to spoiling.    Not that you can't be friendly and have fun.    We certainly aren't task masters.  Except for one time when she continually lied, she hasn't been spanked.   But, we have a better place in her life than as a friend.  

It is fun being a friend.   We relax things on vacation and expensive ice cream snacks are a normal meal.   But that would be a disaster if that was every day life.  

[Sneezyone]

1 hour ago, shawthorne44 said:

 

Because you have to be the parent.    Trying to be your kid's friend leads to things like parents providing the alcohol for the high schooler to party in their house.   Trying to be your child's friend generally leads to spoiling.    Not that you can't be friendly and have fun.    We certainly aren't task masters.  Except for one time when she continually lied, she hasn't been spanked.   But, we have a better place in her life than as a friend.  

It is fun being a friend.   We relax things on vacation and expensive ice cream snacks are a normal meal.   But that would be a disaster if that was every day life.  

The 'friend' parents are the ones at whose house DD shows up from time to time. They're the ones with the tree ripped out from the backyard landscaping and paraded through the living room (not joking), returning home to full-on 16 Candles damage. No thank you!! I'm Ok with allowing my older teen to observe these shenanigans but to co-sign in my own home? Not on your life! Junior/senior year will provide all the evidence DD needs to know that her parents are well and truly in control of their faculties and able to provide sound guidance. The friend parents, not so much.

Edited March 14, 2022 by Sneezyone

[Clarita]

2 hours ago, Catwoman said:

Why shouldn’t a parent try to be their kid’s friend? Why can’t you be both a parent and a friend?

You can be both but focus on being a parent first. My mom was my friend during my high school years, but she was always first and foremost my mom. And her being first and foremost my mom is what made us friends, not because she did fun teenage things with me. 

[Catwoman]

30 minutes ago, shawthorne44 said:

 

Because you have to be the parent.    Trying to be your kid's friend leads to things like parents providing the alcohol for the high schooler to party in their house.   Trying to be your child's friend generally leads to spoiling.    Not that you can't be friendly and have fun.    We certainly aren't task masters.  Except for one time when she continually lied, she hasn't been spanked.   But, we have a better place in her life than as a friend.  

It is fun being a friend.   We relax things on vacation and expensive ice cream snacks are a normal meal.   But that would be a disaster if that was every day life.  

But again, why can’t you be both?

In addition to being his parent, I have always been a friend to my ds22, and it has worked out great! It has never led to any of your ridiculous examples like providing alcohol to high schoolers! And I’m not sure what you mean when you say that trying to be your child’s friend “generally leads to spoiling.” That makes absolutely no sense to me at all. 

I’m not going to “be friendly” to my own child; that sounds so incredibly impersonal (and not very loving) to me! I love him with all my heart, and I hope to be both his mom and his close friend for the rest of our lives. 

[Catwoman]

23 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

The 'friend' parents are the ones whose house DD shows up from time to time. They're the ones with the tree ripped out from the backyard landscaping and paraded through the living room (not joking), returning home to full-on 16 Candles damage. No thank you!! I'm Ok with allowing my older teen to observe these shenanigans but to co-sign in my own home? Not on your life! Junior/senior year will provide all the evidence DD needs to know that her parents are well and truly in control of their faculties and able to provide sound guidance. The friend parents, not so much.

I’m not sure why all of the “friend parents” seem to get lumped into a category of people who let their kids run wild and trash the house. That just isn’t the case at all with my family, nor is it the case with other parents I know who consider their kids to be close friends. 

[Sneezyone]

26 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

I’m not sure why all of the “friend parents” seem to get lumped into a category of people who let their kids run wild and trash the house. That just isn’t the case at all with my family, nor is it the case with other parents I know who consider their kids to be close friends. 

Well, there are also 'friend' parents who dress like their kids, getting cat-called in the mall as the children walk ahead (that happened last weekend as we shopped for ring dance dresses. I'm glad that's not the case with your family. It's a dynamic I've observed locally. My kids and I are certainly friendly but I do not consider myself their friend. Most of my kids' friends' families are a lot more permissive than we are (and I am WAAAAYYY more permissive than my parents were). My name is "Mom", "Ma", or "Mommy" not "First_Name" or "Bruh". There's a curfew in this house and we enforce it. What you do at 18 is your business but until then we get a say (maybe not a definitive one but a say). I do not understand the families with EXTREME disposable wealth around us. To my mind, as long as their kids aren't arrested, hell, even if they are and it's easily hushed up, it's all good. DDs friends typically get brand new cars (sometimes lux vehicles at 16) for context. They don't have jobs and get at least a hundred in pin money every week. Their parents fill their gas tanks. They don't have curfews. They answer only to themselves. *That* level of homie-ship does not compute for me.

ETA: This is completely different from safety considerations like weather and LEO stuff. On those matters, our children tend to abide by our (joint) recommendations/edicts. We don't disagree on those matters. Ultimately, my husband and friends are my peers not my children. My peeps don't know all of my history/business or concerns, nor should they...because CHILDREN.

Edited March 14, 2022 by Sneezyone

[Farrar]

I think saying that friends are for fun and implying that friendship has no boundaries is dramatically undervaluing friendship and not recognizing that friendship can be a lot deeper than that. In my strongest friendships, there are absolutely boundaries and people holding people accountable sometimes and a great deal of love.

That said, I can see the friend thing either way. I get why some people don't feel comfortable defining their relationships with their kids as friendship and why some think it's vital to do so. But I think this comes down to how you define these terms and how you approach parenting. And I don't think it's helpful to make assumptions. Like, my kids do call me Farrar. And sometimes bruh. It has never led to an outbreak of inappropriateness or anything. Because calling me "Farrar" has nothing to do with whether or not my kids do drugs or how I dress or whether I'd let them throw a kegger in high school or anything like that. That would be silly.

[Sneezyone]

14 minutes ago, Farrar said:

I think saying that friends are for fun and implying that friendship has no boundaries is dramatically undervaluing friendship and not recognizing that friendship can be a lot deeper than that. In my strongest friendships, there are absolutely boundaries and people holding people accountable sometimes and a great deal of love.

That said, I can see the friend thing either way. I get why some people don't feel comfortable defining their relationships with their kids as friendship and why some think it's vital to do so. But I think this comes down to how you define these terms and how you approach parenting. And I don't think it's helpful to make assumptions. Like, my kids do call me Farrar. And sometimes bruh. It has never led to an outbreak of inappropriateness or anything. Because calling me "Farrar" has nothing to do with whether or not my kids do drugs or how I dress or whether I'd let them throw a kegger in high school or anything like that. That would be silly.

The names and titles are a matter of *respect* as far as I am concerned and certainly were for my Dad. My mother is a whole other kettle of fish. We all draw those lines differently, true. I grew up in the PacNorWest with my Seattle cousins being allowed to blur those lines with impunity. In my Tacoma family that was unheard of. As adults, NONE of them allow that with their children, on either side. Literally, none. They all felt, as adults raising their own children, that it wasn't appropriate. YMMV. I know my friends from elementary/middle school who managed to independently navigate that terrain without issue. I also know people who didn't. I know people who who party and smoke weed with their kids on the regular, as friends. They still live in the neighborhood I grew up in, God bless 'em. It's not my vibe, nor one that I want for my peeps.

Edited March 14, 2022 by Sneezyone

[Farrar]

3 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

The names and titles are a matter of *respect* as far as I am concerned and certainly were for my Dad. My mother is a whole other kettle of fish. We all draw those lines differently, true. I grew up in the PacNorWest with my Seattle cousins being allowed to blur those lines with impunity. In my Tacoma family that was unheard of. As adults, NONE of them allow that with their children, on either side. Literally, none. They all felt, as adults raising their own children, that it wasn't appropriate. YMMV. I know my friends from elementary/middle school who managed to independently  navigate that terrain without issue. I also know people who didn't.

I guess to me it's just all terrain to navigate, no matter what decision you make. Like, to me, saying "this is what you call me, I say it's respect, end of story" is fine, but is also something to navigate. Just like, "oh, you're calling me by my name now, whatever" is just another parenting thing to navigate.

Families with no non-negotiables tend to be in trouble. As do families whose non-negotiables are constantly on the move. But beyond that, I think it can work fine a lot of different ways.  

[Tanaqui]

My minor kids aren't my friends for the simple reason that, at the end of the day, and at the beginning and in the middle, I'm responsible for them.

It's difficult to be friends when you have to be the one who makes sure they see a doctor if they're sick, makes sure they have what they need to grow up healthy, makes sure that arguments with siblings are fairly mediated, makes sure they're advocated for at school or extracurriculars....

They can't do that sort of thing for me, and it would be both inappropriate and harmful for me to ask them to. Even if we take things like "rules" and "discipline" out of the equation, adult parent to minor child is an inherently unbalanced relationship. My job is to meet their needs. Their job is not to meet MY needs, and it would be wrong to expect that of them, even a little.

Friendship is balanced, or at least has the potential to be. Friends meet your needs in some way. I can't ask that of my kids.

[kbutton]

22 hours ago, Farrar said:

When I've been in that situation, I've usually gone to dh and been like, you are helping create this dynamic and I'm sick of it. Dh usually is like, oh, I did not understand or see that. And then helps turn it around. YMMV on the feasibility of that of course.

Yep. Having kids who needed "extra" when they were little moved that conversation way up, and thankfully, we don't have to revisit it very often. It was so undermining when they were little though. 

[Sneezyone]

1 minute ago, kbutton said:

Yep. Having kids who needed "extra" when they were little moved that conversation way up, and thankfully, we don't have to revisit it very often. It was so undermining when they were little though. 

Every time DH came back from a deployment we had to talk about/negotiate behavior expectations and rules. He came back expecting to greet the 'little' people he left behind and returned to find them at a new age/stage.

[kbutton]

1 minute ago, Sneezyone said:

Every time DH came back from a deployment we had to talk about/negotiate behavior expectations and rules. He came back expecting to greet the 'little' people he left behind and returned to find them at a new age/stage.

That would be really difficult! I bet you got good at it but wished you didn't have to!

[Sneezyone]

42 minutes ago, Farrar said:

I guess to me it's just all terrain to navigate, no matter what decision you make. Like, to me, saying "this is what you call me, I say it's respect, end of story" is fine, but is also something to navigate. Just like, "oh, you're calling me by my name now, whatever" is just another parenting thing to navigate.

Families with no non-negotiables tend to be in trouble. As do families whose non-negotiables are constantly on the move. But beyond that, I think it can work fine a lot of different ways.  

Yep. We've lived all over the country and traveled all over the world. This was something they learned, early, to navigate. Calling your parents/random adults by their first names (WHEN YOU ARE A CHILD) is an aberration.

25 minutes ago, kbutton said:

That would be really difficult! I bet you got good at it but wished you didn't have to!

Oh, for sure. It required TONS of communication between DH and I tho, not the kids. They were recipients, not participants, in those conversations. Modes of address are not fixed.

Edited March 14, 2022 by Sneezyone

[Clarita]

40 minutes ago, Tanaqui said:

Friendship is balanced, or at least has the potential to be. Friends meet your needs in some way. I can't ask that of my kids.

I think I like this explanation the best to describe the difference between being a true friend with your child vs. being a parent. 

[Rosie_0801]

I think dynamics can be a lot more flexible when you are a one child family.

[Catwoman]

26 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

I think dynamics can be a lot more flexible when you are a one child family.

That’s a very good point, Rosie! I only have one child, and I come from a family with only two kids, so I don’t have personal experience with having a large family.

I will say, though, that my brother and SIL had four kids, and they always thought of themselves as both parents and friends to their kids, so I think personalities have a lot to do with it. My brother passed away years ago, but my SIL is still incredibly close to all of her kids, their spouses, and their children, and they are all close to each other. They all say that their mom is one of their best friends, and she always has been. 

[livetoread]

I remember the first time my mother turned to me for emotional support. I was in my 30s and was still thrown for a loop at first. I recovered and provided it, but it really got me thinking about parental roles. I give emotional support to my young adults. They treat me respectfully in return, but I do not turn to them for support. Someday I will probably have to, but hopefully not any time soon. So I don't consider them my friends who I do turn to if I'm upset or need to process something. I turn to my friends, my parents, and my dh, but not my kids.

I think my daughter would say I'm her friend as well as her parent, now that she is a young adult. We are close, and I really enjoy her company. She tells me quite a bit (though not all) of what is going on with her, but I tell her much less about what is going on with me. It's still my job as a parent to provide that stability and I don't see it as her job to provide stability for me, which is why I wouldn't call her a friend in return. There is an emotional support balance in friendship that just isn't there.

[Sneezyone]

53 minutes ago, livetoread said:

I remember the first time my mother turned to me for emotional support. I was in my 30s and was still thrown for a loop at first. I recovered and provided it, but it really got me thinking about parental roles. I give emotional support to my young adults. They treat me respectfully in return, but I do not turn to them for support. Someday I will probably have to, but hopefully not any time soon. So I don't consider them my friends who I do turn to if I'm upset or need to process something. I turn to my friends, my parents, and my dh, but not my kids.

I think my daughter would say I'm her friend as well as her parent, now that she is a young adult. We are close, and I really enjoy her company. She tells me quite a bit (though not all) of what is going on with her, but I tell her much less about what is going on with me. It's still my job as a parent to provide that stability and I don't see it as her job to provide stability for me, which is why I wouldn't call her a friend in return. There is an emotional support balance in friendship that just isn't there.

This. Closeness isn’t a function of friendship. Parents and children can be plenty close without being ‘friends’, at least not the kind of friendship that coequal adults share. It might be a matter of semantics but there’s no way my kids know me the way my 10-20+ year friends do. I just know, having been ‘adultified’ as a kid, distinguishing between   Coequal peer/friend relationships and codependent parent/child ones is important to me. Phraseology is one way to do that.

Edited March 14, 2022 by Sneezyone

[Catwoman]

5 hours ago, Sneezyone said:

Well, there are also 'friend' parents who dress like their kids, getting cat-called in the mall as the children walk ahead (that happened last weekend as we shopped for ring dance dresses. I'm glad that's not the case with your family. It's a dynamic I've observed locally. My kids and I are certainly friendly but I do not consider myself their friend. Most of my kids' friends' families are a lot more permissive than we are (and I am WAAAAYYY more permissive than my parents were). My name is "Mom", "Ma", or "Mommy" not "First_Name" or "Bruh". There's a curfew in this house and we enforce it. What you do at 18 is your business but until then we get a say (maybe not a definitive one but a say). I do not understand the families with EXTREME disposable wealth around us. To my mind, as long as their kids aren't arrested, hell, even if they are and it's easily hushed up, it's all good. DDs friends typically get brand new cars (sometimes lux vehicles at 16) for context. They don't have jobs and get at least a hundred in pin money every week. Their parents fill their gas tanks. They don't have curfews. They answer only to themselves. *That* level of homie-ship does not compute for me.

I'm sorry, but I really think you're just perpetuating a mean and largely inaccurate stereotype about wealthy families here. 

Of course there are wealthy parents who let their kids run wild and who don't care if their kids do terrible things -- but there are also plenty of non-wealthy parents who do exactly the same thing. 

I understand what you mean about the idiotic and reckless party parents who seem to be trying to re-live their lost youth by acting like teenagers and trying to be the cool mom and dad who have the wild parties with drinking and drugs and stuff, but I just don't think that's exclusive to any group of people -- rich, poor, or otherwise -- and I have only ever known a few families that would have fit that description, anyway. 

 

Edited March 14, 2022 by Catwoman

[DawnM]

2 hours ago, Catwoman said:

I'm sorry, but I really think you're just perpetuating a mean and largely inaccurate stereotype about wealthy families here. 

Of course there are wealthy parents who let their kids run wild and who don't care if their kids do terrible things -- but there are also plenty of non-wealthy parents who do exactly the same thing. 

I understand what you mean about the idiotic and reckless party parents who seem to be trying to re-live their lost youth by acting like teenagers and trying to be the cool mom and dad who have the wild parties with drinking and drugs and stuff, but I just don't think that's exclusive to any group of people -- rich, poor, or otherwise -- and I have only ever known a few families that would have fit that description, anyway. 

 

THIS.   It runs across all income levels.

[Carrie12345]

I feel like I never know how to get past semantics around here, lol.

I don’t consider my kids my friends.
But everyone in our family is “Dude” or “Bruh” in casual conversation, lol.  All 5 of my children are “Baby” in times of sadness. “Man” when any of us is at the end of our rope.  SOB is everyone’s favorite, because obviously I’m the B.
Yet I still don’t like it when their friends use my first name (common in my area, definitely not in mine when I grew up) and I’m uncomfortable with my big kids being actual friends with some of my friends (who are millenials right smack between me and my older kids, with their own kids near my youngers’ ages.)  Like, go away already so I can vent about parenting you!

[HomeAgain]

25 minutes ago, Carrie12345 said:

I feel like I never know how to get past semantics around here, lol.

I don’t consider my kids my friends.
But everyone in our family is “Dude” or “Bruh” in casual conversation, lol.  All 5 of my children are “Baby” in times of sadness. “Man” when any of us is at the end of our rope.  SOB is everyone’s favorite, because obviously I’m the B.
Yet I still don’t like it when their friends use my first name (common in my area, definitely not in mine when I grew up) and I’m uncomfortable with my big kids being actual friends with some of my friends (who are millenials right smack between me and my older kids, with their own kids near my youngers’ ages.)  Like, go away already so I can vent about parenting you!

Similar.  I love my kids.  I have a casual relationship with them and we are close. BUT, I have more power and more responsibility while they are minors.  They're not going to be my friends.

Now, that's not a lifetime thing.  DS23 understands a lot more now and is a real human.  We're almost friends.  I'm not parenting him, but he knows he can ask for help whenever and I can do the same with him. We enjoy each other's company. It's more balanced.  I don't want to be part of his friend group, though, and it would be weird if he was part of mine.

[Sneezyone]

6 hours ago, Catwoman said:

I'm sorry, but I really think you're just perpetuating a mean and largely inaccurate stereotype about wealthy families here. 

Of course there are wealthy parents who let their kids run wild and who don't care if their kids do terrible things -- but there are also plenty of non-wealthy parents who do exactly the same thing. 

I understand what you mean about the idiotic and reckless party parents who seem to be trying to re-live their lost youth by acting like teenagers and trying to be the cool mom and dad who have the wild parties with drinking and drugs and stuff, but I just don't think that's exclusive to any group of people -- rich, poor, or otherwise -- and I have only ever known a few families that would have fit that description, anyway. 

 

Of course it cuts across incomes. The ppl I grew up with aren’t wealthy. I described what goes on around me, here, every weekend now that things are  wide open again.

[shawthorne44]

2 hours ago, Carrie12345 said:

Yet I still don’t like it when their friends use my first name

I hate this too.  I also live in an area where many kids are taught ma'am, and that is their default for adult women.    But, I grew up in Minnesota and if someone ma'am's me I think they are saying I'm being bossy.    So, ma'am doesn't work for me either.    For now we've settled on "(DD's name) Mom"   It has the advantage of being easy for them to remember.   

A friend is so much different than a parent.  A friend is an equal relationship, parent-child isn't.  I have no control over the lives of friend's, and I shouldn't.    With my friends I can set up boundaries and I can set up limits on their interactions with me, but I have no control over them beyond that.   My friends also aren't dependent on me.   I am not trying to shape and guide my friends into being a capable adult.   
We enjoy spending time together and I'd love us to be friends when she's an intendent adult.  

It is a bit weird to be a friend group with a parent.   My Dad and I play poker together sometimes.  

[Carrie12345]

7 minutes ago, shawthorne44 said:

I hate this too.  I also live in an area where many kids are taught ma'am, and that is their default for adult women.    But, I grew up in Minnesota and if someone ma'am's me I think they are saying I'm being bossy.    So, ma'am doesn't work for me either.    For now we've settled on "(DD's name) Mom"   It has the advantage of being easy for them to remember.   

A friend is so much different than a parent.  A friend is an equal relationship, parent-child isn't.  I have no control over the lives of friend's, and I shouldn't.    With my friends I can set up boundaries and I can set up limits on their interactions with me, but I have no control over them beyond that.   My friends also aren't dependent on me.   I am not trying to shape and guide my friends into being a capable adult.   
We enjoy spending time together and I'd love us to be friends when she's an intendent adult.  

It is a bit weird to be a friend group with a parent.   My Dad and I play poker together sometimes.  

This makes me think about how much of my position is influenced by how I was/am “parented”.
My mother didn’t try to be my friend, but she was dependent on me for a couple of years. Today, even though I’m a middle aged mom with some grown kids of my own, I still don’t feel like I have an official parent, and that’s hard.  Not that I’d quite call us friends either, but I have been put in a “She’s going to do what she wants anyway” category and basically left alone. Tough spots in my adult life have mostly been “You’ll be fine.”  And my mom ISN’T a cold person. I think she’s just seen me as fully cooked, for the most part, since I was 16.

I am glad to be the person my kids call looking for help or comfort, even if I’m not always the very first person. Even if we both know I often don’t have all the right things to say. Even if I screw up. Even if I hold them accountable and speak hard truths. Even if they themselves hate that they’re calling me, but want to be mommed despite that.
Their friends can have the less important stuff.