Pfizer doesn’t prevent infection in ages 5-11

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

https://www.statnews.com/2022/02/28/pfizer-covid-vaccine-kids-5-11/
 

Offers almost no prevention against infection a month after the second shot.  This is a preprint, but it matches all anecdotal data I’ve seen.  My own children(ages 6, 9 and 11) all contracted Covid five weeks after their second vaccine.

And NY has ditched mask mandates in the schools starting Wednesday. 

Edited February 28, 2022 by Mrs Tiggywinkle

[Faith-manor]

😭😭😭

[KSera]

Pfizer clearly used too low a dose in younger kids. I’d really like to see Moderna’s data for kids asap. 

[mommyoffive]

Wow oh wow.  Crap.  Every mask mandate is going out the window around here.  What the heck are you supposed to do now?  I hadn't heard this and I was trying to get myself comfortable with my kids going maskless to things if the rates kept dropping.  And who knows if that is going to happen when the mask mandates are gone.  

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

3 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

Wow oh wow.  Crap.  Every mask mandate is going out the window around here.  What the heck are you supposed to do now?  I hadn't heard this and I was trying to get myself comfortable with my kids going maskless to things if the rates kept dropping.  And who knows if that is going to happen when the mask mandates are gone.  

It only came out about two hours ago.  I knew the study had been ongoing and was watching for the data. As I said, it is only a preprint, and we’d expected that it would be a three dose vaccine.  However, I’d really like to see how the booster is holding up against infection in adults.  I have suspicions it’s not great, but I haven’t seen any real data yet.

[Carrie12345]

What does this mean about the trial data then? That’s where my brain is now stuck.

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

2 minutes ago, Carrie12345 said:

What does this mean about the trial data then? That’s where my brain is now stuck.

I expect it was more protective pre-Omicron.

[itsheresomewhere]

9 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

It only came out about two hours ago.  I knew the study had been ongoing and was watching for the data. As I said, it is only a preprint, and we’d expected that it would be a three dose vaccine.  However, I’d really like to see how the booster is holding up against infection in adults.  I have suspicions it’s not great, but I haven’t seen any real data yet.

I am with your suspicions.  

[vonfirmath]

However, the omicron specific vaccines they were working on do not seem to offer advantage over what is out there.

https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/02/omicron-specific-boosters-delayed-as-cases-fall-animal-studies-disappoint/

[bookbard]

Damn. No masks where we are. I send the kids off to school with them, but I am pretty sure the older one takes it off once I'm gone seeing no one else masks. Second dose coming up in a week so that'll provide a few weeks' protection I guess. I remember it took years for the polio one to be sorted, so I guess expecting a super amazing one within a year is too much. 

[Ting Tang]

I wonder how other vaccines would fare.  I decided not to get the mRNA vaccines for my children--I literally made and cancelled appointments twice.  I have been hoping for Novavax, but no countries are using that for children yet.   

[catz]

Isn't hospitalization more important than infection?  Like my boosted young adult tested positive for covid after a booster.  But was basically asymptomatic.  His case (and the cases of 20+ of his musical cohorts at college) were only caught because his campus and his performing group are very aggressive with testing.  He is beyond quarentine now and that group is bouncing off walls as usual now.  He has 3 roomies and none of them got it from him either.  

I find the data that it doesn't seem to budge severity/hospitilization with 2 vaccines more problematic than it preventing infection at all as someone whose now known 4 kids who have been hospitilized and people like to pretend that doesn't exist.  None had pre-existing conditions. 

I hope they are testing boosters on this age range and we see that data soon.  Lots of vaccines given to young kids require a number of doses so it wouldn't surprise me if this one would as well.  Omicron definitely has thrown a wrench in things though.  

Edited February 28, 2022 by catz

[Hilltopmom]

I’m so pissed off at NY right now. I honestly can’t decide if I’m pulling my little kids out tomorrow or not 😞

dh and I need to talk tonight 

[KSera]

I see Australia is using Moderna for 6-11 year olds  starting last week. Hopefully that means we might have it available here soon. https://theconversation.com/the-moderna-vaccine-is-now-available-for-6-to-11-year-olds-heres-what-parents-need-to-know-177544
 

[lauraw4321]

Is Moderna approved in US for kids?

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

1 minute ago, lauraw4321 said:

Is Moderna approved in US for kids?

No, they submitted but the FDA wants more data on the myocarditis risk before approving it. 

[Mom_to3]

Oh, I am quite sure the CDC had access to that preprint last Friday when changing their masking recommendations. They don't care - the message has been that kids are fine, despite evidence to the contrary (and any repercussions like long covid are much worse given the longer life expectancy of kids!). Kids have come last this entire time - and I believe there is still no treatment against covid for kids under 12. If we never hear from Moderna regarding a shot for kids/teens, I am considering giving my 10.5 year old the adult shot as a "booster". I don't see how it makes sense that he received 1/3 the dose of my 12 year old...

[BakersDozen]

1 hour ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

Offers almost no prevention against infection a month after the second shot.  

Please don't throw rotten tomatoes at me but it was my understanding that from the start the vaccines were never intended/understood to prevent infection. It was hoped that symptoms would be milder and therefore hospitalizations, etc. would be fewer. But I never remember reading anything that touted any of the vaccines as preventing infection.

But it's the middle of the day which means I'm 8 hours ahead of my usual time here, which means I'm distracted, which means I probably missed something really important with all of this ,which means I probably have no clue what I'm talking about. But then that happens even when I'm on here super late at night so....um...I'll go resume my normal daily tasks. 🙂

[Ausmumof3]

Nooo! I was so looking forward to next month when youngest gets his second shot. I didn’t expect it to be perfect but hoped it would do something. 
 

I think there was recent evidence they protect against MISC though? Is that still right?

Edited February 28, 2022 by Ausmumof3

[Ting Tang]

19 minutes ago, Mom_to3 said:

Oh, I am quite sure the CDC had access to that preprint last Friday when changing their masking recommendations. They don't care - the message has been that kids are fine, despite evidence to the contrary (and any repercussions like long covid are much worse given the longer life expectancy of kids!). Kids have come last this entire time - and I believe there is still no treatment against covid for kids under 12. If we never hear from Moderna regarding a shot for kids/teens, I am considering giving my 10.5 year old the adult shot as a "booster". I don't see how it makes sense that he received 1/3 the dose of my 12 year old...

I know, I hear that often about kids.  I really worry for the ones who have underlying conditions---including undiagnosed.  It is such bad messaging, and I am tired of that. But how would it be allowed, with regard to your 10.5 year old?  I know it is very sad we never hear about good treatments for children.  I was still hoping for Novavax for my children for a vaccine. Seems like things really stalled with anything more than Pfizer for the kids.  

[Insertcreativenamehere]

My own 9 yo just got over Covid. He's immunocompromised so he had three doses, the latest in January. We were really worried how he would do but it was thankfully mild for him. I'm still worried about future infection especially now that masks are no longer required in his school or on the bus. 

[KSera]

45 minutes ago, BakersDozen said:

Please don't throw rotten tomatoes at me but it was my understanding that from the start the vaccines were never intended/understood to prevent infection. It was hoped that symptoms would be milder and therefore hospitalizations, etc. would be fewer. But I never remember reading anything that touted any of the vaccines as preventing infection.

But it's the middle of the day which means I'm 8 hours ahead of my usual time here, which means I'm distracted, which means I probably missed something really important with all of this ,which means I probably have no clue what I'm talking about. But then that happens even when I'm on here super late at night so....um...I'll go resume my normal daily tasks. 🙂

When they first started making the vaccines, reducing severe illness and death was the main goal, with anything else being a bonus. But then when the real world data came out on the vaccines initially with whatever strain that was back in early 2021 when the vaccines were first being given, they were phenomenally protective against even infection. Like, really, really good. We will always have to just wonder what might have happened if everyone had gotten vaccinated as quickly as possible at that point when they were preventing transmission. Then delta came along and it was still protective against infection, but not to the nearly complete degree that it was against the initial strain. And then of course omicron changed everything. It still seems to reduce by somewhere around half (in adults) depending on the study, which honestly still makes a big difference, but it’s just not what it was.

[Mom_to3]

42 minutes ago, Ting Tang said:

I know, I hear that often about kids.  I really worry for the ones who have underlying conditions---including undiagnosed.  It is such bad messaging, and I am tired of that. But how would it be allowed, with regard to your 10.5 year old?  I know it is very sad we never hear about good treatments for children.  I was still hoping for Novavax for my children for a vaccine. Seems like things really stalled with anything more than Pfizer for the kids.  

I am really really hoping for Moderna at this point (it uses a higher dose in that age group, though still half of the dose for the teens), but as you said, our government seems to have no desire to make a move on Moderna or anything else in kids of any age...Surely by now, we'd have seen if myocarditis is a significant issue in the 12-17 age group as Moderna has been authorized in Europe since last summer. https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/covid-19-vaccine-spikevax-approved-children-aged-12-17-eu It is very odd. It is also very telling, in terms of dosage, that among all kids, for Pfizer, the 12 year olds were most protected...

I would hate to do anything off label for the kids...but the Moderna dose in Europe is essentially the same as the Pfizer dose in that age group, so I would have to consider the chances of side effects vs a likelihood of more protection. He is almost the size of my 12 year old and could easily pass. Before we do anything, we'll have to do more research. The news today is very disappointing, but I kind of expected it for my 10 year old given the earlier news for the under 5s (and his complete lack of side effects).

[Ting Tang]

1 hour ago, Mom_to3 said:

I am really really hoping for Moderna at this point (it uses a higher dose in that age group, though still half of the dose for the teens), but as you said, our government seems to have no desire to make a move on Moderna or anything else in kids of any age...Surely by now, we'd have seen if myocarditis is a significant issue in the 12-17 age group as Moderna has been authorized in Europe since last summer. https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/covid-19-vaccine-spikevax-approved-children-aged-12-17-eu It is very odd. It is also very telling, in terms of dosage, that among all kids, for Pfizer, the 12 year olds were most protected...

I would hate to do anything off label for the kids...but the Moderna dose in Europe is essentially the same as the Pfizer dose in that age group, so I would have to consider the chances of side effects vs a likelihood of more protection. He is almost the size of my 12 year old and could easily pass. Before we do anything, we'll have to do more research. The news today is very disappointing, but I kind of expected it for my 10 year old given the earlier news for the under 5s (and his complete lack of side effects).

It has been frustrating about the vaccines.  My first was Johnson & Johnson, and then I got Moderna.  It just seems like they were gung ho on moving quickly with Pfizer and not the others.  If your son is around the same size as a 12 year old, then as a layperson, I don't see why he shouldn't be able to get a different dose.  I am not sure why they don't consider that!  

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

https://www.statnews.com/2022/02/28/pfizer-covid-vaccine-kids-5-11/
 

Offers almost no prevention against infection a month after the second shot.  This is a preprint, but it matches all anecdotal data I’ve seen.  My own children(ages 6, 9 and 11) all contracted Covid five weeks after their second vaccine.

And NY has ditched mask mandates in the schools starting Wednesday. 

Our schools just ditched masks, too, even for the bus. 

[KSera]

22 minutes ago, Ting Tang said:

 If your son is around the same size as a 12 year old, then as a layperson, I don't see why he shouldn't be able to get a different dose.  I am not sure why they don't consider that!  

They dose based on immune system maturity, not size. Apparently, age is more relevant than size for this. 

18 minutes ago, Quill said:

Our schools just ditched masks, too, even for the bus. 

Do school buses not fall under federal transportation mandate?

[Mom_to3]

43 minutes ago, KSera said:

They dose based on immune system maturity, not size. Apparently, age is more relevant than size for this. 

Do school buses not fall under federal transportation mandate?

Yes - I've heard that, too, but clearly it's a gradual thing not captured by the huge differences in dosage. If they had done larger studies, or larger studies with different dosages, they could have picked up on more subtle age effects. It will be very interesting to see what we hear from Moderna, which uses a much larger dose (25 instead of 10).

[KSera]

13 minutes ago, Mom_to3 said:

Yes - I've heard that, too, but clearly it's a gradual thing not captured by the huge differences in dosage. If they had done larger studies, or larger studies with different dosages, they could have picked up on more subtle age effects. It will be very interesting to see what we hear from Moderna, which uses a much larger dose (25 instead of 10).

Yeah, that would have been nice. They were relying on measuring antibody levels to determine immune response when deciding which dosage to use, and based on that, the smaller dose seemed sufficient. In the real world though, it has not been. But that is undoubtedly because the variant at play changed since the time they were determining what dosage was needed. It takes a long time to go back and start over, so it’s a conundrum. With other diseases, there has not been the same immense time pressure.

[mommyoffive]

Wow, I guess I have fallen off keep track of what was going on in other countries with vaccines and kids.  I am just so upset that kids are getting Moderna in other countries and we can't here. 

[Mom_to3]

33 minutes ago, KSera said:

Yeah, that would have been nice. They were relying on measuring antibody levels to determine immune response when deciding which dosage to use, and based on that, the smaller dose seemed sufficient. In the real world though, it has not been. But that is undoubtedly because the variant at play changed since the time they were determining what dosage was needed. It takes a long time to go back and start over, so it’s a conundrum. With other diseases, there has not been the same immense time pressure.

As far as I know, they only reported an average level of antibodies in the entire age group 5-11. With a larger sample size, they could have checked if there was a different effect in different age groups (which they actually picked up on in the under 5 group), or even a downward trend in antibodies with age. They could also have proceeded with full trials for a couple of different dosage levels - that way we could now switch some kids to a higher dose. Of course, all of this costs money...I also don't like the small sample sizes for the Omicron variant trials, btw.

[popmom]

5 hours ago, Insertcreativenamehere said:

My own 9 yo just got over Covid. He's immunocompromised so he had three doses, the latest in January. We were really worried how he would do but it was thankfully mild for him. I'm still worried about future infection especially now that masks are no longer required in his school or on the bus. 

Thank you for sharing your experience. I can’t imagine the anxiety you’ve experienced during this pandemic. I’m interested to know…pre pandemic—what was your expectation of schools, etc regarding flu season? Please don’t take this as snark or dismissive. I’m VERY COVID cautious myself—I have underlying conditions. I’m vaccinated plus booster. 
 

Personally, I’m wondering when we accept this as endemic and regard it as something like flu. Does that change anything for you? I personally have always had a real fear of flu. As in I change my routines and behaviors during flu season—I avoid crowded indoor activities, church, etc.—-and I’ve been this way for many, many years before this pandemic. In fact I would have been embarrassed for anyone to know my “healthy respect” for flu because virtually no one I know thinks twice about it except maybe to get the flu shot. 
 

I’m trying to think logically about this virus as well as the benefits of masking, vaccines, etc. 
Example, my 24 yr old dd does NOT want the booster, but it’s mandated by her university because she’s in a health care profession. She has no problem wearing masks, but she does have concerns about getting another dose of the vax because she developed Intracranial Hypertension after her second dose last year. She’s otherwise healthy, and considering that vaccinated people can still spread the virus, it seems unreasonable to require her to get another dose when she’s more than willing to mask. Not to mention that she’s had the Omicron variant. Her risk of disease—much less spreading it—is basically nil right now. 
 

Im rambling. Sorry. I’d appreciate your thoughts on this though. @Insertcreativenamehere
 

ETA: my dd just said the university changed policy, and she is not required to get the booster. She and I are both elated at this news. I’m not anti vaccine at all—I had my booster. But considering my daughter’s dx soon after vax, I’m VERY relieved for her.

Edited March 1, 2022 by popmom

[KSera]

2 hours ago, popmom said:

Personally, I’m wondering when we accept this as endemic and regard it as something like flu. Does that change anything for you? I personally have always had a real fear of flu. As in I change my routines and behaviors during flu season—I avoid crowded indoor activities, church, etc.—-and I’ve been this way for many, many years before this pandemic. In fact I would have been embarrassed for anyone to know my “healthy respect” for flu because virtually no one I know thinks twice about it except maybe to get the flu shot. 

I’m the same way you sound about the flu every year. Ever since my kids were young and we had one really bad year with it. I won’t consider Covid to be endemic in the way flu is until we are not having the incredible rates of people hospitalized and killed by it that we are. In order for that, the amount of virus circulating would have to be much lower (and/or much more of the population vaccinated—the latter would help with the former). We’re currently still having 2-3000 people die of Covid every day in the US, so I don’t think we’re close yet to when we could consider this similar to the flu. 

I’m also not personally comfortable with it until we have a handle on long Covid and ways to prevent or cure it. I’m still quite concerned what the long term impacts will be on people from having had the virus. 

[madteaparty]

Makes sense. Europe is not vaccinating kids this age for a reason. Can we “follow the science” and let my kid into the Met, NYC? 

[Guest]

10 hours ago, KSera said:

They dose based on immune system maturity, not size. Apparently, age is more relevant than size for this. 

Do school buses not fall under federal transportation mandate?

They do, and initially, the school superintendent said that; ie, masking on buses was a separate matter because it was federal jurisdiction, but then like one day later they announced that the bus mandate was rescinded as well; masks are optional. I can’t pretend to know exactly how this changed; it’s probably in the email but it was long so I just bottom-lined it. 

[KSera]

11 hours ago, madteaparty said:

Makes sense. Europe is not vaccinating kids this age for a reason. Can we “follow the science” and let my kid into the Met, NYC? 

That's not the reason some countries in Europe aren't vaccinating this age, and many of them are indeed vaccinating this age. Several European countries have well over half of their 5-11 year olds vaccinated.

[mommyoffive]

COVID vaccine for kids less effective against Omicron, but booster helps (msn.com)

[mommyoffive]

CDC data suggest Pfizer vaccine protection holds up in kids 5-11 (statnews.com)

 

Now I am confused.  

[KSera]

1 hour ago, mommyoffive said:

CDC data suggest Pfizer vaccine protection holds up in kids 5-11 (statnews.com)

 

Now I am confused.  

This is one of the problems with all the preprints that get widely reported now before peer review. 

[ktgrok]

On 2/28/2022 at 3:57 PM, Ting Tang said:

I wonder how other vaccines would fare.  I decided not to get the mRNA vaccines for my children--I literally made and cancelled appointments twice.  I have been hoping for Novavax, but no countries are using that for children yet.   

Even the gloomy studies are showing protection against severe illness for vaccinated children. Certainly more so than no vaccine. 

[Insertcreativenamehere]

8 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

Even the gloomy studies are showing protection against severe illness for vaccinated children. Certainly more so than no vaccine. 

Agreed! My immunocompromised, developmentally-delayed 9 year old son just got over a very mild case of Covid. This is a kid who had a trach for his first three years and ended up on a ventilator numerous times for pneumonia and RSV. Even when he'd get a cold, we'd be running oxygen at home to keep him out of the hospital. Due to his medical history, he qualified for a third dose of the vaccine. I credit the vaccine for the fact that his case was so extremely mild. He had no fever, mainly just sneezing and a runny nose. 

The vaccine obviously didn't prevent infection in his case. Our oldest son was the one who brought it home (probably from school) and we isolated him in his room as soon as he tested positive. Our youngest still got infected first despite very minimal contact with his oldest brother. The rest of us eventually got it (minus DH) and we all had very mild cases -- again, thanks to our vaccines. 100% worth it. 

[mommyoffive]

Effectiveness of COVID-19 Pfizer-BioNTech BNT162b2 mRNA Vaccination in Preventing COVID-19–Associated Emergency Department and Urgent Care Encounters and Hospitalizations Among Nonimmunocompromised Children and Adolescents Aged 5–17 Years — VISION Network, 10 States, April 2021–January 2022 | MMWR (cdc.gov)

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

I think we know that the vaccines do a pretty good job holding up against severe infection/hospitalization.  But collectively the country has given up on preventing infections, and even mild Covid infections (a) are often nasty and (b) can have long term effects. My oldest has no medical conditions and is struggling with fatigue two months later.  I want vaccines that do a better job preventing infections, frankly, especially for my kids. They might not have gotten long Covid this time, but what’s the cumulative effect when you’re catching Covid once or twice a year?

I noticed that almost nobody at the State of the Union last night was masked—I know they tested but it’s likely some infections weren’t caught by testing.

[ktgrok]

34 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

I think we know that the vaccines do a pretty good job holding up against severe infection/hospitalization.  But collectively the country has given up on preventing infections, and even mild Covid infections (a) are often nasty and (b) can have long term effects. My oldest has no medical conditions and is struggling with fatigue two months later.  I want vaccines that do a better job preventing infections, frankly, especially for my kids. They might not have gotten long Covid this time, but what’s the cumulative effect when you’re catching Covid once or twice a year?

I noticed that almost nobody at the State of the Union last night was masked—I know they tested but it’s likely some infections weren’t caught by testing.

AGree I want better, but I'm not going to not use what I have while I'm waiting for better, you know? 

And agree on the masks on the state of the union too - definitely sends the wrong message and plenty of those folks are high risk!

[YaelAldrich]

While I watched the State of the Union Speech and especially before and after, I kept saying Biden, stop getting close to people!!!!

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

19 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

AGree I want better, but I'm not going to not use what I have while I'm waiting for better, you know? 

And agree on the masks on the state of the union too - definitely sends the wrong message and plenty of those folks are high risk!

My kids are vaccinated and will be boostered, but I can’t help but wish that there were better or that we were still trying to reduce infections.  I am 100% positive that my kids will be the only ones wearing masks in school and on the bus today, and I’m not really convinced my little kids won’t take them off.  My 6-year-old has speech issues and he finds it difficult to understand people in masks and be understood with masks.  I’m positive he probably took his off as soon as he got into the classroom, and the school has basically said they can’t police each family’s individual decisions.

[Hilltopmom]

4 hours ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

My kids are vaccinated and will be boostered, but I can’t help but wish that there were better or that we were still trying to reduce infections.  I am 100% positive that my kids will be the only ones wearing masks in school and on the bus today, and I’m not really convinced my little kids won’t take them off.  My 6-year-old has speech issues and he finds it difficult to understand people in masks and be understood with masks.  I’m positive he probably took his off as soon as he got into the classroom, and the school has basically said they can’t police each family’s individual decisions.

NYer here. Our county is still listed as “red” on the map.

I was one of 2 teachers wearing a mask today. My children and a handful of others were masked. All day all I heard was “it’s so good to see everyone’s smiles”- not like we haven’t been seeing them at lunch, snack, and breakfast anyways. 
The super sent out an email last night telling people that bullying over those who chose to wear masks would not be tolerated. I’m sure the kids still in masks felt bad today hearing that over and over. 
I did tell families that if they want their kid in a mask I will follow through. Most said they were letting their child decide?! 
Admin also said on the email last night that masks are still strongly recommended, just not mandated. I’m deeply disappointed in the super and admin who said that but then did not wear masks themselves 😞 so much for leading by example and following our health dept recommendations. Even our school nurse was mask-less!

People are not willing to do the right thing unless it’s a law.

I made it through the day without telling anyone off, at least. 

Btw- also sent home 2 kids sick today for symptoms. parents were shocked we were still following that rule. Wth- mask mandates went away, covid didn’t magically end. Sigh.

ETA-

The more I think about this now the more upset I am that my colleagues have so little regard for the health of their own students and their families. I’m not sure I’ll ever look at them in the same way again. My own children’s teachers and my work peers are endangering my children’s health and they’re happily celebrating it while they do it. Such a bad taste in my mouth right now.

Edited March 2, 2022 by Hilltopmom

[desertflower]

On 2/28/2022 at 1:30 PM, BakersDozen said:

Please don't throw rotten tomatoes at me but it was my understanding that from the start the vaccines were never intended/understood to prevent infection. It was hoped that symptoms would be milder and therefore hospitalizations, etc. would be fewer. But I never remember reading anything that touted any of the vaccines as preventing infection.

But it's the middle of the day which means I'm 8 hours ahead of my usual time here, which means I'm distracted, which means I probably missed something really important with all of this ,which means I probably have no clue what I'm talking about. But then that happens even when I'm on here super late at night so....um...I'll go resume my normal daily tasks. 🙂

That's to my understanding too.

[mommyoffive]

This just came out.

Pediatric vaccine effectiveness: New real world evidence (substack.com)

[Zuzu822]

My under-12 kids are in the Moderna trial. I'm hoping we'll find out soon about boosters! My friend has kids in Pfizer's group, and they have already started that process.

My anecdata: one of my kids is six months post dose two. The other was originally placebo, so just he's three months out. We've all stayed healthy so far! We are still masking in public, however, and they're homeschooled, which also helps.

[Ting Tang]

On 3/2/2022 at 11:53 AM, ktgrok said:

AGree I want better, but I'm not going to not use what I have while I'm waiting for better, you know? 

And agree on the masks on the state of the union too - definitely sends the wrong message and plenty of those folks are high risk!

I have been pleasantly surprised this week in my area.  The state mandate ended 2/28, and her dance studio is still following precautions. They have said nothing about ending them.  My son went to Tae Kwon Do yesterday.  The instructor was not masked, but my husband said about half the class was still masked.  Maybe it is a false sense of security when talking about kids who don't wear the right kinds of masks or even wear them properly, but I feel like some still are trying.