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Ukraine

prairiewindmomma

By prairiewindmomma,
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Mrs Tiggywinkle
Mrs Tiggywinkle

I’m busy unfriending people. this is a literal copy of something someone wrote on one of my statuses about Ukraine: ”Everything the news says is a lie. They’re making this sound bad because

Mrs Tiggywinkle
Mrs Tiggywinkle

I grieve not only for Ukrainians, but also for Russians.  There are mothers and wives and children losing their sons and husbands and fathers in Russia too.  Putin is a dictator, and my anger is towar

SoCal_Bear
SoCal_Bear

I just befriended a Ukranian homeschooling family who fled Kyiv and arrived her on 1/28. THe mom is American and the husband is Ukranian. They were able to come to stay with her family. They left ever

PronghornD

PronghornD

Posted
Posted
On 3/7/2022 at 7:26 PM, PronghornD said:

My brother is. Putin was forced to invade because the west did not live up to their treaty to not expand Nato. The Infowars guy will tell you all about it. Then you too will have superior knowledge.

In the latest news from my brother, the footage of destruction in Ukraine is all from 2014 or fake. The country handed out guns indiscriminately now even to children, which explains the few hundred deaths.

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Sneezyone

Sneezyone

Posted
Posted
44 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

More on the Amsterdam Orthodox Church that has split from the Russian Orthodox Church: https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/13/russian-orthodox-church-in-amsterdam-announces-split-with-moscow

I have VERY limited awareness of the enmeshment/bargain between the Russian Orthodox church and Putin so this was helpful, thx.

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Sneezyone

Sneezyone

Posted
Posted (edited)
46 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

US (White House National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan) states Russia has asked China for military assistance in Ukraine: https://www.cnn.com/europe/live-news/ukraine-russia-putin-news-03-13-22/h_8a736bdd345e0b5e8f15bfb68540a0ce

It is unclear what this means for now. A request is just that...a request. It's not clear to me that China is prepared to take sides... yet. I have it on good authority that Asian alliances are actively being reinforced. 

Edited by Sneezyone
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Carol in Cal.

Carol in Cal.

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, prairiewindmomma said:

More on China/Russia. Sullivan is meeting with a representative from China tomorrow in Rome: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/mar/13/jake-sullivan-biden-national-security-adviser-china-russia

This was scheduled before the Russian request, and I suspect that the Russian request was in response to knowing that this meeting was coming.

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Pam in CT

Pam in CT

Posted
Posted
22 minutes ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

If your uncle rambles on about Ukrainian bio-labs...

 

 

Yeah, the biolabs CT has been kicking around for YEARS, sometimes Russia-originating, sometimes China-originating, sometimes the two in tandem. Here's Julia Davis this time last year; Snopes did a bit two weeks ago when the invasion-response Russian-apologist networks took off tracing it all the way back to 2005.

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TravelingChris

TravelingChris

Posted
Posted

2 Fox journslists were killed and one gravelly injured.  They were targeted.  As was the former NYT reporter who was kiled over the weekend 

A very brave journslist in Russia held up a sign in both English and Russian behind the Russian anchor person who was telling lies.  It said 'Stop the War' and 'they are telling you lies'.  She was interrogation for 14 hours but released.

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Pam in CT

Pam in CT

Posted
Posted

re Marina Ovsyannikova:

14 minutes ago, TravelingChris said:

2 Fox journslists were killed and one gravelly injured.  They were targeted.  As was the former NYT reporter who was kiled over the weekend 

A very brave journslist in Russia held up a sign in both English and Russian behind the Russian anchor person who was telling lies.  It said 'Stop the War' and 'they are telling you lies'.  She was interrogation for 14 hours but released.

She was arrested almost immediately (you can see in the live-on-air clip that the station switched within seconds to wholly off topic footage). There were a LOT of concerns she'd suffer really dire consequences. I expect she still may fall off a balcony or ingest poison from her doorknob following journalists before her who critiqued the government; but much relief that she was released today.

The on-air clip:

The clip she pre-recorded and had released just after she was taken away:

 

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Pam in CT

Pam in CT

Posted
Posted

Zelensky just finished a (virtual) address to US Congress. It is... something. 

Full clip here (it's just milling around waiting to start until about 10 minutes in; and then a prepared-in-advance video starting at 27:50):

https://www.c-span.org/video/?518685-1/ukrainian-president-zelensky-calls-us-back-fly-zone-provide-defensive-weapons&vod

 

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Carol in Cal.

Carol in Cal.

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, TravelingChris said:

I thought the Polish, Czech and Slovenian Prime Ministers were very brave to travel to Kiev yesterday.  

Me, too.  I also thought that it was no accident that these are former Soviet bloc countries.  They know what is going on and what kind of strength is needed better than those who are not well versed in the Cold War.

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Kassia

Kassia

Posted
Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, lauraw4321 said:

Did you see the attack on the theater?  They wrote “children” in huge letters on the ground next to it and it was bombed. It was just a shelter for civilians. 😭😭

This broke me. Just no words...  😞  

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prairiewindmomma

prairiewindmomma

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It's been Georgia 2.0, down to declaring separatist regions, razing communities, and seeking to secure some geopolitical end.  With Georgia it was access to the Black Sea. With Ukraine it's the oil & gas deposits, the seaports, and grain....Ukraine is significantly more water rich than Crimea for growing crops. 

The Georgia war, for those who don't know the details: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Georgian_War

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Carol in Cal.

Carol in Cal.

Posted
Posted
28 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

It's been Georgia 2.0, down to declaring separatist regions, razing communities, and seeking to secure some geopolitical end.  With Georgia it was access to the Black Sea. With Ukraine it's the oil & gas deposits, the seaports, and grain....Ukraine is significantly more water rich than Crimea for growing crops. 

The Georgia war, for those who don't know the details: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Georgian_War

Also technology, nuclear power plants including the biggest functioning one in Europe, palladium deposits, and the seat of Rus history in Kyiv.

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prairiewindmomma

prairiewindmomma

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14 minutes ago, Carol in Cal. said:

Also technology, nuclear power plants including the biggest functioning one in Europe, palladium deposits, and the seat of Rus history in Kyiv.

Yup, those too, though I think the Rus history thing is kind of like the Russian Orthodox thing. It gives legitimacy and authority to his actions through a certain lens to a particular audience, but I don't think it's the primary driver of the decisions he is making.

 

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Guest

Guest

Posted
Posted
10 hours ago, Pam in CT said:

Zelensky just finished a (virtual) address to US Congress. It is... something. 

Full clip here (it's just milling around waiting to start until about 10 minutes in; and then a prepared-in-advance video starting at 27:50):

https://www.c-span.org/video/?518685-1/ukrainian-president-zelensky-calls-us-back-fly-zone-provide-defensive-weapons&vod

 

I watched that at work. The video was effective for sure. My eyes were brimming.

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Carol in Cal.

Carol in Cal.

Posted
Posted
14 minutes ago, Ting Tang said:

I am seeing more headlines about Russians sending (or planning to send) Ukranians to "camps."   😞

It’s been reported that they have already started exporting residents from besieged Mariupol north to various spots all over Russia.

In other news, President Zelenskyy spoke to the Israeli Knesset and compared Putin’s rally with Nazi ones, very well done.  As his other speeches to government bodies, this one was tuned to his audience with references to their experience and their citizens.  For instance, I had not known that Golda Meir was from Ukraine, or that a Hasidic sect was started by a man from there whose home is still visited as a religious tourist destination by thousands of Israeli citizens annually.

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Carol in Cal.

Carol in Cal.

Posted
Posted
40 minutes ago, thewellerman said:

Can someone post a few links about the Russian camps?  I'm having a hard time finding much current info. 

I don’t know how to export from twitter.  That’s where most of the up to the minute information is.  There is also a stunning new video from Ukraine on a platform called telegram or telegraph that I am not familiar with, that has been quoted on twitter as well.  There is someone who is posting videos of President Zelensky’s speeches to various government bodies, with English subtitles—Canada, the US, Germany, Israel, Britain, the EU.  The UN I think?  Maybe not.  It’s been a good way to stay ahead of reporting.  There are various pundits with their own opinions and summaries of the data.  The Russian anti-propaganda protester was up on twitter almost as soon as it happened, and there are translated feeds of Putin’s speech to the big gathering recently as well.  

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Carol in Cal.

Carol in Cal.

Posted
Posted (edited)

F bomb. 

Mariupol update:  Russia demands surrender by 5AM Monday or they will move in and start up with their military tribunals.  Saying that if they surrender there will be humanitarian corridor out.  (Fool me once…)

Ukraine replies surrender is not an option, demands humanitarian corridors immediately.

=============

What will it take for others to act???

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prairiewindmomma

prairiewindmomma

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Google “Mariupol city council” and the relocation stuff comes up. The various media sources don’t agree on where people are going..just that people were detained, passports taken, phones searched, and then people were out on buses.

Here’s one posthttps://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/03/19/europe/mariupol-shelter-commander-ukraine-intl/index.html: 

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YaelAldrich

YaelAldrich

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Carol in Cal. said:

It’s been reported that they have already started exporting residents from besieged Mariupol north to various spots all over Russia.

In other news, President Zelenskyy spoke to the Israeli Knesset and compared Putin’s rally with Nazi ones, very well done.  As his other speeches to government bodies, this one was tuned to his audience with references to their experience and their citizens.  For instance, I had not known that Golda Meir was from Ukraine, or that a Hasidic sect was started by a man from there whose home is still visited as a religious tourist destination by thousands of Israeli citizens annually.

But in that speech to the Knesset (Israeli legislative body) he claimed that Ukrainians in WWII were aligned with their Jewish population. That in the most part isn't true. There were Righteous Gentiles (as in all countries at that time) but many more antisemitic Ukrainians as well as apathetic ones. Not to mention all the Jews who were killed in the century before in Ukraine.  That part didn't sit well with many of my Israeli friends nor did it with me.

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Carol in Cal.

Carol in Cal.

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, YaelAldrich said:

But in that speech to the Knesset (Israeli legislative body) he claimed that Ukrainians in WWII were aligned with their Jewish population. That in the most part isn't true. There were Righteous Gentiles (as in all countries at that time) but many more antisemitic Ukrainians as well as apathetic ones. Not to mention all the Jews who were killed in the century before in Ukraine.  That part didn't sit well with many of my Israeli friends nor did it with me.

I heard his speech, with English subtitles, and I did not think that he claimed that the Ukrainians as a group were aligned with the Jews.  It was more that he was kind of ignoring antisemitism, (which maybe he shouldn’t have, debatable), but saying that both were attacked and occupied and horrendously treated by the German Nazi invaders.  I believe that all of Ukraine was overrun by the Germans, isn’t that right?  Not all of Russia but all of Ukraine.  And this was not that long after the Russian starvation of 9 million Ukrainians.  So I heard him to say, look, we have this in common, and the fact that I am the president means that Naziism is not remotely dominant in Ukraine, and there are the Righteous here who helped during WWII, and now you can help us, and have to decide whether to do so, and live with that decision.

Each of his speeches to a country is quite different from the others, and specifically tuned to that country.  The one to Germany was very skillful and walked quite a tightrope.

 

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YaelAldrich

YaelAldrich

Posted
Posted

Each speech is tailored to each country. It's a lot harder to bring up the past when a great number of Eastern European Jews in Israel (and the US) can say I don't have grandparents or other relatives right now because of Ukrainian antisemitism in the 19th and 20th centuries. Israel is helping -they have taken both Jewish and non-Jewish refugees and sending aid from governmental and non-governmental organizations.

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Carol in Cal.

Carol in Cal.

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, YaelAldrich said:

Each speech is tailored to each country. It's a lot harder to bring up the past when a great number of Eastern European Jews in Israel (and the US) can say I don't have grandparents or other relatives right now because of Ukrainian antisemitism in the 19th and 20th centuries. Israel is helping -they have taken both Jewish and non-Jewish refugees and sending aid from governmental and non-governmental organizations.

President Zelenskyy himself lost 3-4 great-uncles fighting against the Nazis, and their parents were burned to death when the Nazis burned their village down.  He is of Jewish ancestry.

Israel could provide the Iron Dome systems and they would make a big difference in the way this war is going since it is being driven mostly by missiles and other artillery fire.  Just as the US could provide Patriot systems and the former Eastern Bloc NATO countries could provide similar Soviet systems (that last one is, I think, starting to happen, although my evidence for  it is tangential and inferred.)

Ukraine  was invaded without attacking anyone, on transparently trumped up accusations.  That calls into question the whole basis of modern ‘peace’ in a way that few other conflicts have.  

And Ukraine has no military allies.  

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YaelAldrich

YaelAldrich

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Carol in Cal. said:

President Zelenskyy himself lost 3-4 great-uncles fighting against the Nazis, and their parents were burned to death when the Nazis burned their village down.  He is of Jewish ancestry.

Israel could provide the Iron Dome systems and they would make a big difference in the way this war is going since it is being driven mostly by missiles and other artillery fire.  Just as the US could provide Patriot systems and the former Eastern Bloc NATO countries could provide similar Soviet systems (that last one is, I think, starting to happen, although my evidence for  it is tangential and inferred.)

Ukraine  was invaded without attacking anyone, on transparently trumped up accusations.  That calls into question the whole basis of modern ‘peace’ in a way that few other conflicts have.  

And Ukraine has no military allies.  

He's Jewish (married to a non-Jew and purportedly converted to her religion).

I don't think Israel can sell or give them the Iron Dome technology.  It's American tech married to Israel tech and the US isn't giving that kind of thing at this point.

And your assertion that Ukraine was invaded without attacking anyone is exactly what happened to Israel multiple times. And the world (apart from the US and some tiny countries) thought that was just peachy, until this very day.

But overall, Israel is better off not going 100% either way.  Israel has no real, 100% military allies either. 

I think most Israelis are cautiously to positively in favor of Ukraine.  But the government must take a nuanced view that takes in consideration the whole of world politics.

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AnotherNewName

AnotherNewName

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, YaelAldrich said:

 

And your assertion that Ukraine was invaded without attacking anyone is exactly what happened to Israel multiple times. And the world (apart from the US and some tiny countries) thought that was just peachy, until this very day.

 

That is certainly one way of skewing historical events.

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