Update on the Joshua Duggar conviction.

[Grace Hopper]

6 minutes ago, YaelAldrich said:

How will they enforce no porn or computer use?  What's a phone other than a computer writ small?

How do you do supervised life in your own home?  Will a LEO move in with them? Do all the people around him also have to be computer free?

I hope that means he would not be allowed a smart phone? Who knows what tech will be available in ten years. 
 

I truly hope that there will such a change in the next decade that whoever is in place to set up the terms for his residential living and supervised contact with his (and other) children will set up some clear, strict, enforceable boundaries. 
 

Am I the only one wondering about what his life in prison will be like? Will he be part of the general population or some other more protected conditions?

[Harriet Vane]

55 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

Many sex offenders are allowed to live with their own children. Not joking. Happens all the damn time.

This is true. If they offend against children who are not their own, they still retain full parental rights over their own children. It's even possible that if the person offended against a female child, they will allow male children to continue to reside with the offender. Or if the person offended against a step-child, then it is totally possible that the courts will leave his birth children in residence with the offender. It depends a lot on the caseworker's decisions and on the individual judge. But more are left with known predators than we would ever think possible.

[ktgrok]

1 hour ago, Catwoman said:

The worst thing about this is that when Josh is released from prison, he will still most likely have another 3 or 4 DECADES of his life to reoffend. And I don't have the slightest doubt that he will be just as big a pervert when he gets out of prison as he is right now, and he might even be worse.

Ugh. 

I'm seeing 20 years (after release) of only supervised visits with any minor, including his own. So time in prison plus 20 yrs probation of not having unsupervised access to kids will get his kids at least old enough to be adults. 

At that point, it is the grandkids who will be at risk. 

Also, no computer or internet access without specific permission of his PO. (I'm assuming for work related purposes)

[Katy]

He’s going to have 20 years probation after he gets out, where he will be allowed no access to children and only supervised access to his own children (unfortunately Anna counts). 

The judge is also requesting he go to a prison in Texarkana where there is apparently the best sex offender therapy. 

He’s already served 6 months. So he might get out in 10 years, but some comments I saw online said for sex offenders that means he must both admit guilt AND show I forget the legal word but it basically meant regret. 

It’s unlikely Anna will be able to get pregnant again in ten years. Maybe without constant contact & if he admits guilt she’ll wise up snd leave him. 

[Katy]

A probation officer can search him and his residence and probably will. 

[Catwoman]

43 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

I'm seeing 20 years (after release) of only supervised visits with any minor, including his own. So time in prison plus 20 yrs probation of not having unsupervised access to kids will get his kids at least old enough to be adults. 

At that point, it is the grandkids who will be at risk. 

Also, no computer or internet access without specific permission of his PO. (I'm assuming for work related purposes)

 

39 minutes ago, Katy said:

He’s going to have 20 years probation after he gets out, where he will be allowed no access to children and only supervised access to his own children (unfortunately Anna counts). 

The judge is also requesting he go to a prison in Texarkana where there is apparently the best sex offender therapy. 

He’s already served 6 months. So he might get out in 10 years, but some comments I saw online said for sex offenders that means he must both admit guilt AND show I forget the legal word but it basically meant regret. 

It’s unlikely Anna will be able to get pregnant again in ten years. Maybe without constant contact & if he admits guilt she’ll wise up snd leave him. 

The problem here is that I don't trust Anna. If she counts as a person who will be allowed to "supervise" Josh with children, that seems almost as bad as Josh having no supervision whatsoever.

Hopefully, the other Duggars will be smart enough to watch him like a hawk when he's around their own children, and I'm also hoping that his notoriety will mean that his release from prison will be a media circus, so other families in his area will be aware of what he did, and they will be cautious.

But Anna? Michelle and JimBob? I don't trust any of them as far as I can throw them.

 

[Scarlett]

Just now, Catwoman said:

 

The problem here is that I don't trust Anna. If she counts as a person who will be allowed to "supervise" Josh with children, that seems almost as bad as Josh having no supervision whatsoever.

Hopefully, the other Duggars will be smart enough to watch him like a hawk when he's around their own children, and I'm also hoping that his notoriety will mean that his release from prison will be a media circus, so other families in his area will be aware of what he did, and they will be cautious.

But Anna? Michelle and JimBob? I don't trust any of them as far as I can throw them.

 

10 years is a long time for things to change.  For now the kids are safe from Josh. 

[Catwoman]

1 minute ago, Scarlett said:

10 years is a long time for things to change.  For now the kids are safe from Josh. 

I hope a lot of things change, including Josh. 

[Katy]

It’s also possible he won’t be attracted to a pubescent 10 year old. His proclivities seem to be skewing younger, possibly because he doesn’t want to get caught. 🤮

[Katy]

According to Katie Joy he’s not eligible for time off due to a January regulation change. His crime has a high recidivism rate & is not eligible for early time off. It’s WithoutaCrystalBall2 on Instagram. I did not verify.

Eta: can’t screenshot due to a file size error.

Edited May 25, 2022 by Katy

[Heartstrings]

8 minutes ago, Katy said:

According to Katie Joy he’s not eligible for time off due to a January regulation change. His crime has a high recidivism rate & is not eligible for early time off. It’s WithoutaCrystalBall2 on Instagram. I did not verify.

Eta: can’t screenshot due to a file size error.

I hope so!

[Ottakee]

2 hours ago, freesia said:

No, there are no conjugal visits in federal prison.

Exactly.   Federal prison visits are very strict and there is only one brief hug allowed at the end and only standing in a certain spot,etc.

[Catwoman]

20 minutes ago, Katy said:

According to Katie Joy he’s not eligible for time off due to a January regulation change. His crime has a high recidivism rate & is not eligible for early time off. It’s WithoutaCrystalBall2 on Instagram. I did not verify.

Eta: can’t screenshot due to a file size error.

I hope this is accurate! I just read the same thing elsewhere, but I'm not sure if it was a reputable source.

[Slache]

8 minutes ago, Ottakee said:

Exactly.   Federal prison visits are very strict and there is only one brief hug allowed at the end and only standing in a certain spot,etc.

It doesn't play out this way in reality, at least in my experience. The visiting rooms are huge and there are lots of private areas.

[Katy]

Had to delete a bunch of attachments but I think it’s working now. 
 

 

[ktgrok]

So, regarding his internet access on probation - people with experience with this are saying that any devices he has access to, including Anna's, etc, will have software installed to block/monitor what he can access, and he has to pay for that. This also includes any work computer, work phone, etc. And during random searches if any devices are found that they don't already know about and don't have that filter, he's in violation. 

[Resilient]

3 hours ago, YaelAldrich said:

How will they enforce no porn or computer use?  What's a phone other than a computer writ small?

How do you do supervised life in your own home?  Will a LEO move in with them? Do all the people around him also have to be computer free?

Agree on the phone-as-computer. There are phones, now, with zero access to internet... I don't want to put their names in this thread because it feels too much like associating them with pervs, when really, these guys are making options for people who want OUT of the internet, at least for a few hours at a time...but need to be accessible by phone or text.  

Maybe in 10 years, life-outside-prison will have tech to make zero-computer use more possible than it is now.  

[KeriJ]

7 minutes ago, Resilient said:

Agree on the phone-as-computer. There are phones, now, with zero access to internet... I don't want to put their names in this thread because it feels too much like associating them with pervs, when really, these guys are making options for people who want OUT of the internet, at least for a few hours at a time...but need to be accessible by phone or text.  

Maybe in 10 years, life-outside-prison will have tech to make zero-computer use more possible than it is now.  

These phones are also for kids whose parents want them to have a phone but not internet.  I don't think there is a negative connotation. 

[Katy]

17 minutes ago, KeriJ said:

These phones are also for kids whose parents want them to have a phone but not internet.  I don't think there is a negative connotation. 

Unless you're a kid.  DH was walking out of the library behind us one day and overheard a dad say to a son, "If you ever behave like that again I'll brick your phone and you'll be stuck with a flip phone until you move out." The boy's apparent friends made a chorus of "Ooooh's"  It's been one of DH's favorite jokes ever since, but he sometimes fondly considers switching to a flip phone, apparently to go back to a more difficult but simpler time.

[maize]

23 minutes ago, KeriJ said:

These phones are also for kids whose parents want them to have a phone but not internet.  I don't think there is a negative connotation. 

There's no negative connotation in our home!

Dh switched to a phone without internet because he felt like he was wasting too much time. There's still a PC and a laptop and an iPad for Internet access, but it isn't that constant easy default activity.

Which ... my phone definitely is 😅

[Wishes]

2 hours ago, Katy said:

Had to delete a bunch of attachments but I think it’s working now. 
 

 

That’s more satisfying. He can round down to a decade but that additional  2.5 yrs., 730+ days will feel especially long

Edited May 26, 2022 by Wishes

[Ottakee]

2 hours ago, Slache said:

It doesn't play out this way in reality, at least in my experience. The visiting rooms are huge and there are lots of private areas.

Have you been to a federal prison visit?

when I took my kids to see my ex husband it was very tightly controlled.  Room was large with guards in elevated platforms to monitor.  Inmate was escorted to a seat and then family was seated across from them at a distance out of reach.   Inmate food had to be bought from vending machine by family and then brought to guard and family seated again.  Once the guard nodded, inmate could ge their food/drink and sit down.   
 

any physical contact would have resulted in immediate end of visit.

that at least was how it was done at the one we visited

[Annie G]

Would have liked 20 years but 12.5 is more than I thought he’d get.

Was thrilled to see Jim Bob storm out of the court visibly angry, because it’s high time he sees that he’s not in charge of everything.  For years I’ve been angry about how he (and others) mismanaged Josh’s prior bad deeds. 

I feel for the M kids, and I both feel bad for Anna and angry that she doesn’t seem to be accepting that Josh is evil.  I hope the next decade is better for them than the last one has been, and wish there was a good path for Anna.

The post release restrictions don’t give me ANY confidence that the prison sex offender program is going to help Josh.  Of course being incarcerated with other sex offenders doesn’t seem to be an environment for him to have a change of heart. I’m glad they published that info (I didn’t know that they set those stipulations at sentencing!) because it does give me hope that once he’s out there will be some effort made to keep him from reoffending. Don’t burst my bubble- let me believe at least for today that his minor children and grandkids will be safe. 

 

[Annie G]

Ottakee, it must have been so difficult for you and the kids to make that visit.  Hugs. 

[ktgrok]

Also, keep in mind that if he does get caught looking at say, porn, even "normal" porn, he goes back to jail. What are the chances he stays out of jail ? Low, I think. 

[Annie G]

1 minute ago, ktgrok said:

Also, keep in mind that if he does get caught looking at say, porn, even "normal" porn, he goes back to jail. What are the chances he stays out of jail ? Low, I think. 

Agree. Very low.  The young girl he was betrothed to as a teen was deposed for the case and she claimed he admitted to viewing porn as a 14 year old. And he admitted to a porn addiction when he was sent to the Rockford facility after the Ashley Madison incident. No way is a decade in prison going to take that desire away.  

[KeriJ]

1 hour ago, Katy said:

Unless you're a kid.  DH was walking out of the library behind us one day and overheard a dad say to a son, "If you ever behave like that again I'll brick your phone and you'll be stuck with a flip phone until you move out." The boy's apparent friends made a chorus of "Ooooh's"  It's been one of DH's favorite jokes ever since, but he sometimes fondly considers switching to a flip phone, apparently to go back to a more difficult but simpler time.

Gabb wireless phones look just like smartphones.  It's what we use for middle school. 

[Slache]

1 hour ago, Ottakee said:

Have you been to a federal prison visit?

when I took my kids to see my ex husband it was very tightly controlled.  Room was large with guards in elevated platforms to monitor.  Inmate was escorted to a seat and then family was seated across from them at a distance out of reach.   Inmate food had to be bought from vending machine by family and then brought to guard and family seated again.  Once the guard nodded, inmate could ge their food/drink and sit down.   
 

any physical contact would have resulted in immediate end of visit.

that at least was how it was done at the one we visited

Edit: I didn't realize Folsom was state. Never mind!

Folsom, whatever hospital prison Folsom uses, and Solano, a state prison. It wasn't unheard of for wives to get impregnated by their husbands who were behind bars. I admit I can not picture Folsom because I was so young, but I can see multiple places in Solano where that could have happened. I also know you kept an extremely close eye on your kids for the same reason.

There was absolutely no escorting at either and my dad was able to move freely, including taking me to the courtyard. He touched me a lot (like dad/kid stuff) not at the entrance including having his arm around me when we talked. It was against the rules but no one stopped us. And my parents would kiss if not in front of the cameras.

Edited May 26, 2022 by Slache

[Katy]

Whoops, I guess he’s eligible for early release after all…. 
 

 

[gardenmom5]

Not long enough.

 

10 hours ago, freesia said:

10 plus years also gets Anna to 44 so it's less likely she'll have more babies with him.But I hope she leaves him.l

In ten years she'll be 43 . . . that's not old, and I have friends who got pregnant without fertility treatments older than that. (one was 46)  I was 42.

Maybe she'll go into early menopause.  Or need a hysterectomy in the next ten years.
or grow a backbone and leave.

10 hours ago, Catwoman said:

Hey, does anyone know if Josh will be able to have conjugal visits with Anna while he's in prison?

Someone PLEASE tell me that won't happen in Federal prison!

I had the same nightmare.

 

 

4 hours ago, Annie G said:

Would have liked 20 years but 12.5 is more than I thought he’d get.

Was thrilled to see Jim Bob storm out of the court visibly angry, because it’s high time he sees that he’s not in charge of everything.  

Edited May 26, 2022 by gardenmom5

[freesia]

4 hours ago, gardenmom5 said:

Not long enough.

 

In ten years she'll be 43 . . . that's not old, and I have friends who got pregnant without fertility treatments older than that. (one was 46)  I was 42.

Maybe she'll go into early menopause.  Or need a hysterectomy in the next ten years.
or grow a backbone and leave.

I had the same nightmare.

 

 

No, it’s not enough, but her birthday is in June so she will be close to or just 44. I know some women can have babies later, but the ones I know who don’t use contraceptives all had multiple miscarriages after 42/43. At any rate, it is much less likely. 

[Ottakee]

11 hours ago, Annie G said:

Ottakee, it must have been so difficult for you and the kids to make that visit.  Hugs. 

It wasn’t easy and I won’t be repeating the experience

[Ottakee]

9 hours ago, Slache said:

Edit: I didn't realize Folsom was state. Never mind!

Folsom, whatever hospital prison Folsom uses, and Solano, a state prison. It wasn't unheard of for wives to get impregnated by their husbands who were behind bars. I admit I can not picture Folsom because I was so young, but I can see multiple places in Solano where that could have happened. I also know you kept an extremely close eye on your kids for the same reason.

There was absolutely no escorting at either and my dad was able to move freely, including taking me to the courtyard. He touched me a lot (like dad/kid stuff) not at the entrance including having his arm around me when we talked. It was against the rules but no one stopped us. And my parents would kiss if not in front of the cameras.

Yea, federal was very different.  Sorry you had to visit a prison as a child.

[TravelingChris]

Josh's ;lawyers filed an appeal last week, which we all expected, I believe.

[Ottakee]

2 hours ago, TravelingChris said:

Josh's ;lawyers filed an appeal last week, which we all expected, I believe.

I am sure there will be appeal after appeal.

[cbollin]

bumping with an update.   

as of March 17, 2023, some news and other sources are saying his prison time was extended by 2 months due to allegedly having contraband (cell phone) .  going from august 2, 2032 to october 2.

Other sources earlier this week said it was extended by 10 days from aug 2 to aug 12. But the information changed.

 

(edit to add: some of the online sources say August 12 to 22 (instead of 2 or 12 that other tabloids say. )   Then the october date is the new info.)  looking forward to the KNWA source that faith manor mentions below. but the big point remains that it's not august anymore.

Edited March 17, 2023 by cbollin

[Faith-manor]

32 minutes ago, cbollin said:

bumping with an update.   

as of March 17, 2023, some news and other sources are saying his prison time was extended by 2 months due to allegedly having contraband (cell phone) .  going from august 2, 2032 to october 2.

Other sources earlier this week said it was extended by 10 days from aug 2 to aug 12. But the information changed.

His original release date since the feds assume at the start that the inmate will want to earn their maximum of 55 days per year for good behavior, was August 12, 2032. You can look it up as it is public information. He was caught with a cell phone, which has now been confirmed by sources other than tabloids, and though it has not been ascertained as to what he was doing with that contraband, whatever it was was not good because they moved his release date to October 02, 2032 which is a loss of 51 days of good behavior time. It was reported that he spent some time in solitary confinement as well, however, that had not been confirmed. It would be a typical punishment for this behavior, but not mandatory and up to the warden so that part is an unknown. If you Google Seagoville prison, where Josh is staying, you can find his public record, inmate #42501-509. CC McCandless from KNWA news has requested more information from authorities in order to do a formal update.

 

[cbollin]

@Faith-manor  thanks.  I felt something was off on it since only thing I was finding was tabloid in nature. appreciate the help on what to research 🙂

[Faith-manor]

18 minutes ago, cbollin said:

@Faith-manor  thanks.  I felt something was off on it since only thing I was finding was tabloid in nature. appreciate the help on what to research 🙂

Here is the wiki page, but you can also look things up on the BOP website.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Correctional_Institution,_Seagoville

[Faith-manor]

On 5/25/2022 at 8:01 PM, ktgrok said:

So, regarding his internet access on probation - people with experience with this are saying that any devices he has access to, including Anna's, etc, will have software installed to block/monitor what he can access, and he has to pay for that. This also includes any work computer, work phone, etc. And during random searches if any devices are found that they don't already know about and don't have that filter, he's in violation. 

Sorry, I didn't see this before. Yes, he has to pay for the software. Currently, if memory serves, it is $35 per month per device. He also cannot accept a job that allows him computer access without his parole officer's permission, and in order to habe that job, the employer had to agree to the monitoring, and random on site visits from the parole officer. This is a primary reason that often paroled convicts of CSAM end up working physical labor for prep approved employers set up by the BOP locally. Seafood processing, construction, landscaping/lawn companies, this type of thing. Since the employers are taking a big risk and inconvenience for having these ex-cons work for them, the pay is the absolute bottom and a pay raise or benefits is beyond rare.

Since Duggar's entry to sex addiction was adult porn, and he slid down the path to some of the worst CSAM investigators have ever seen, he even has a restriction on accessing adult materials though this is normally considered free speech issue. This restriction is a sign that the judge doesn't think Duggar is going to make it long on the outside and is trying to at least give him the chance to stay clean. Given that he didn't make it more than about 13 months since being taken into custody after the guilty verdict, and well less than a year in federal lock up before violating prison rules and what is a restriction on his parole terms, my guess is he will be hit with new charges inside of 30 days when paroled. 

I have no idea if this impacts his appeal. The appeal was heard last month in Kansas City, just oral arguments and paperwork from the lawyers, convict not in attendance. My assumption is that it does not since the appeal is based on the trial itself, and not any behavior since. But, I do know a former prosecutor, and asked him, and he said that they will do a forensic dump on the phone, and he could see new charges if he accessed CSAM which is apparently easy to do even if you don't have Torrent and Dark web at your fingertips because it is that prolific everywhere. (😭) This can take a while to determine, so it could be months, maybe even a year before any ramifications like that are known, longer really. On his original charges, the raid was spring 2019, and he didn't go to trial until Dec. 2021. They already have him under lock and key, so their wouldn't be any need to burden the system with rushing.