China’s Approach is so different

[Teaching3bears]

I heard they closed a whole city  because there were 3 cases of COVID.  Not sure if it is Omicron or Delta.  Residents are not allowed to leave their homes.  This is so different from cities here with tens of thousands of cases and most places open with lots of people.  

 

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Teaching3bears said:

I heard they closed a whole city  because there were 3 cases of COVID.  Not sure if it is Omicron or Delta.  Residents are not allowed to leave their homes.  This is so different from cities here with tens of thousands of cases and most places open with lots of people.  

 

Yes, it is very different. The values are totally different, though, and the expectation from governments/citizens; all very different. 

Our local hospital situation is absolutely dire, and it is bound to worsen. I know so many people with covid right now its mind-boggling. I’m beginning to think I should pray before I drive the car because the EMS is overwhelmed and Im more afraid than usual about getting emergency medical care. 

[regentrude]

11 minutes ago, Teaching3bears said:

I heard they closed a whole city  because there were 3 cases of COVID.  Not sure if it is Omicron or Delta.  Residents are not allowed to leave their homes.  This is so different from cities here with tens of thousands of cases and most places open with lots of people.  

yes, things are very different in a totalitarian regime.
BTDT, don't want to trade.

[Teaching3bears]

There were a million new cases in the US today.  If the US population is 329 million, does that mean that 1/329 tested positive today/yesterday alone.?  Yikes.  Correct me if I’m wrong.  

[regentrude]

6 minutes ago, Quill said:

The values are totally different, though, and the expectation from governments/citizens; all very different. 

But it's not all because of "values".
It's not like the citizens of that city willingly and voluntarily do that for the greater good.
Mainly,  it's because they have a totalitarian government with unlimited power. 

Edited January 4, 2022 by regentrude

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, regentrude said:

But it's not all because of "values".
It's not like the citizens of that city willingly and voluntarily do that for the greater good.
Mainly,  it's because they have a totalitarian government with unlimited power. 

Yes, that’s true. I was trying to refrain from speaking much about something I am not at all knowledgeable about. 

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, Teaching3bears said:

There were a million new cases in the US today.  If the US population is 329 million, does that mean that 1/329 tested positive today/yesterday alone.?  Yikes.  Correct me if I’m wrong.  

Where did you hear this stat? (Im not doubting it; just wondering where it comes from.) And if that is known, confirmed tests Im going to say it is worse than that or maybe way worse. My daughter almost certainly has covid but she cant get a PCR for five days so may not get it confirmed at all. She is just assuming she has it (her husband is confirmed) and is working from home this week. Im betting that is true for a lot of people. 

[Catwoman]

7 minutes ago, Quill said:

Where did you hear this stat? (Im not doubting it; just wondering where it comes from.) And if that is known, confirmed tests Im going to say it is worse than that or maybe way worse. My daughter almost certainly has covid but she cant get a PCR for five days so may not get it confirmed at all. She is just assuming she has it (her husband is confirmed) and is working from home this week. Im betting that is true for a lot of people. 

I have been seeing the “over a million cases in a single day” stat on quite a few news sites. 

Ugh!

[TCB]

First I should say, I have no real opinion on the origins of the SARS-Cov 2 virus.

Having said that, it always surprises me that many of the same people who believe it was a biological weapon released by China, are also ‘let er rip’ in regards to Covid over here in the US. That seems illogical to me. If you really think that China has insider knowledge about Covid, you would imagine it would be concerning seeing them take such extreme measures against it.

[Ausmumof3]

There is also some suggestion that China is dealing with an outbreak of haemorrhagic fever right now in xi an as reported by Global Times and some of the more extreme precautions may be in relation to that. 

[Ausmumof3]

8 minutes ago, TCB said:

First I should say, I have no real opinion on the origins of the SARS-Cov 2 virus.

Having said that, it always surprises me that many of the same people who believe it was a biological weapon released by China, are also ‘let er rip’ in regards to Covid over here in the US. That seems illogical to me. If you really think that China has insider knowledge about Covid, you would imagine it would be concerning seeing them take such extreme measures against it.

So true!

[Ausmumof3]

29 minutes ago, Quill said:

Where did you hear this stat? (Im not doubting it; just wondering where it comes from.) And if that is known, confirmed tests Im going to say it is worse than that or maybe way worse. My daughter almost certainly has covid but she cant get a PCR for five days so may not get it confirmed at all. She is just assuming she has it (her husband is confirmed) and is working from home this week. Im betting that is true for a lot of people. 

Abc here:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-01-05/covid-19-us-million-cases-vaccines-omicron/100738712

[Arcadia]

34 minutes ago, Quill said:

Where did you hear this stat? (Im not doubting it; just wondering where it comes from.) And if that is known, confirmed tests Im going to say it is worse than that or maybe way worse.

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/region/united-states
“New Cases 1,082,549

Record high: 1,082,549 Jan 3, 2022

New Deaths 1,688

Record high: 4,442 Jan 20, 2021”

[Arcadia]

It is one month to the Beijing Winter Olympics so they are being even more cautious than they already are.

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-asia-china-59869509

”The Chinese authorities hope to manage this by keeping the media, athletes and observers in huge separate isolation bubbles which incorporate not only housing and event locations but also transport links.

BBC China correspondent Stephen McDonell reports from the mountains outside Beijing where access to the Olympic region has now been sealed off.”

[livetoread]

I'm guessing that million might be catch up from the holiday weekend when fewer would be reported. Don't know, though.

[WildflowerMom]

Omg, I haven't even thought about the Olympics.   Are they open to spectators?  

[kirstenhill]

9 minutes ago, livetoread said:

I'm guessing that million might be catch up from the holiday weekend when fewer would be reported. Don't know, though.

At least in my state, they were making clear that today's numbers represent what would have been 4 days worth had it not been for the Fri - Monday holiday weekend. 

[Ting Tang]

At one point, wasn't the country reporting 0 cases per day?  Emotionally, I just have a distrust of information that comes from China, but it's a big human rights violator.  Just reading how they treat "political prisoners" is enough to make you physically ill. Too bad we are so dependent on them.  😞

[lulalu]

Yes, the approach is totally different than in the US. And I wouldn't want any thing close to it to happen in my home country. This isn't due to citizens putting others before themselves, this is government ruling by decree. 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-59864266

[Tanaqui]

1. China's a totalitarian nation. They can do things like that.

2. As we saw in 2020, this approach doesn't really work. People do slip through the cracks.

[Teaching3bears]

2 hours ago, Quill said:

Where did you hear this stat? (Im not doubting it; just wondering where it comes from.) And if that is known, confirmed tests Im going to say it is worse than that or maybe way worse. My daughter almost certainly has covid but she cant get a PCR for five days so may not get it confirmed at all. She is just assuming she has it (her husband is confirmed) and is working from home this week. Im betting that is true for a lot of people. 

It was just a news headline but now I’m seeing people write that it is based on more than one day.  Maybe it won’t be as high tomorrow.

[mathnerd]

40 minutes ago, Teaching3bears said:

It was just a news headline but now I’m seeing people write that it is based on more than one day.  Maybe it won’t be as high tomorrow.

You are right, it is 1 million covid cases reported for monday. US reached a major milestone of 1 million a day 😓

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/us-reaches-1-million-daily-covid-cases-spread-omicron-variant-rcna10866

 

[Melissa in Australia]

4 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

There is also some suggestion that China is dealing with an outbreak of haemorrhagic fever right now in xi an as reported by Global Times and some of the more extreme precautions may be in relation to that. 

Argh. That is the last thing the world needs

[Arcadia]

5 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

There is also some suggestion that China is dealing with an outbreak of haemorrhagic fever right now in xi an as reported by Global Times and some of the more extreme precautions may be in relation to that. 

 

8 minutes ago, Melissa in Australia said:

Argh. That is the last thing the world needs

It is in season.
http://www.shaanxi.gov.cn/xw/sxyw/202112/t20211220_2204910_wap.html

”肾综合征出血热，简称出血热，是由鼠类携带病毒并传播引起的自然疫源性疾病。一年四季均可发病，每年有两个发病高峰，在10月至次年1月会出现一个大高峰，被称为秋冬峰；4月至6月（或5月至7月）还会出现一个小高峰，被称为春峰.”

translate:

There will be a large peak from October to January of the following year, which is called the autumn and winter peak; it will also occur from April to June (or May to July), the small peak is called Spring peak.

Edited January 5, 2022 by Arcadia

[lewelma]

Being in NZ, I'm seeing the media using China/Hong Kong's response as a way to support the let-it- rip strategy of the West. Using the "We don't want to be like *them*" as a way to defend the West's strategy and unfortunate outcomes. But there is not a single international media organization that is discussing NZ's response. Freedom for the people combined with strong government public health measures. There is a middle way. 

Edited January 5, 2022 by lewelma

[Catwoman]

2 minutes ago, lewelma said:

Being in NZ, I'm seeing the media using China/Hong Kong's response as a way to support the let-it- rip strategy of the West. Using the "We don't want to be like *them*" as a way to defend the West's strategy and unfortunate outcomes. But there is not a single international media organization that is discussing NZ's response. Freedom for the people combined with strong government public health measures. There is a middle way. 

I agree with you that there is a middle way, but you also have to consider the fact that the entire population of New Zealand is less than 5 million people, so it’s not really fair to compare your country’s response with that of a country like the US that has over 330 million people. The larger and more diverse the population, the more difficult it is to put effective systems into place and to get the population to buy into the government’s public health measures. 

But I sure wish we’d been able to achieve what NZ has achieved! I have been so impressed with your country’s response to Covid from very early in the pandemic.

[lewelma]

18 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

I agree with you that there is a middle way, but you also have to consider the fact that the entire population of New Zealand is less than 5 million people, so it’s not really fair to compare your country’s response with that of a country like the US that has over 330 million people. The larger and more diverse the population, the more difficult it is to put effective systems into place and to get the population to buy into the government’s public health measures. 

But I sure wish we’d been able to achieve what NZ has achieved! I have been so impressed with your country’s response to Covid from very early in the pandemic.

Agreed. But there seems to be the old fashioned divide of the cold war happening. The media is feeding it. 

I am seeing the American media attacking any country that imposes lockdowns. They did it to us with Auckland and they did it to Australia. There is misery to go around for everyone and it looks like from the outside that the US is trying to make themselves feel better by saying there is only one other way - authoritarian. 

Edited January 5, 2022 by lewelma

[lewelma]

I would rather see an honest pros and cons news article. NZ's largest sector, tourism, is floundering. Our house prices are skyrocketing. We have a major labour shortage. But we have freedom and live without fear. So it is not all roses over here. But the media accounts that I have read of China and Hong Kong are focusing on just the negatives of the approach and not the positives. There is misery everywhere, but I would appreciate some nuance from the media when comparing responses. 

Edited January 5, 2022 by lewelma

[AurieD]

25 minutes ago, lewelma said:

Being in NZ, I'm seeing the media using China/Hong Kong's response as a way to support the let-it- rip strategy of the West. Using the "We don't want to be like *them*" as a way to defend the West's strategy and unfortunate outcomes. But there is not a single international media organization that is discussing NZ's response. Freedom for the people combined with strong government public health measures. There is a middle way. 

Do you think NZ's strategy going to hold up once Omicron is there?

Here in WA we've also been very successful in suppressing Covid. The recent Delta outbreak has been kept to very small numbers due to high vaccination rates, contract tracing, and some restrictions/masking requirements. However I am very concerned about what is going to happen here when we open on Feb 5th given vaccination seems so much less effective against Omicron.

[lewelma]

(As an aside not related to the conversation: I will mention that there is a huge misperception about NZ that we are a homogeneous society, which is not the case. NZ society is incredibly diverse with 30 percent of ALL residents born overseas.)

[lewelma]

1 minute ago, AurieD said:

Do you think NZ's strategy going to hold up once Omicron is there?

Here in WA we've also been very successful in suppressing Covid. The recent Delta outbreak has been kept to very small numbers due to high vaccination rates, contract tracing, and some restrictions/masking requirements. However I am very concerned about what is going to happen here when we open on Feb 5th given vaccination seems so much less effective against Omicron.

We are about ready to find out!! The government here is using strong public health measures and I would assume they will continue to do that. But their main approach is to learn from the successes and failures of other countries before it hits here. I'm sure they are watching China to see if the lockdown will work. We have locked down before and they said they will do it again with omicron if they have to and they see that it has been effective elsewhere. 

[Laura Corin]

2 hours ago, lewelma said:

We are about ready to find out!! The government here is using strong public health measures and I would assume they will continue to do that. But their main approach is to learn from the successes and failures of other countries before it hits here. I'm sure they are watching China to see if the lockdown will work. We have locked down before and they said they will do it again with omicron if they have to and they see that it has been effective elsewhere. 

What's the NZ plan for the future? As vaccination does not prevent infection with the new variants, so even 100 percent vaccination wouldn't prevent it from spreading. Is the plan to have perpetual official quarantine facilities? I'm not being snarky - I'm just wondering how it will work.

[lewelma]

54 minutes ago, Laura Corin said:

What's the NZ plan for the future? As vaccination does not prevent infection with the new variants, so even 100 percent vaccination wouldn't prevent it from spreading. Is the plan to have perpetual official quarantine facilities? I'm not being snarky - I'm just wondering how it will work.

Agreed. It will be interesting to hear what they have to say when they come off of summer holidays. Part of what they have always said is that by running behind everyone else, we can learn from international experience. And we can have better methods in hospitals and pharmaceuticals because they are being constantly developed. I also think they don't mind being half way between China's approach and the west's approach, and doing some lockdowns. That is why I was posting here about a middle way. I do think we have some lockdowns are in our future and I don't consider them authoritarian. I also think they are aiming for a 90% coverage rate with boosters (to reduce severity but not spread) before they let omicron in if at all possible.

And yes, they are talking about making the facilities permanent in anticipation of future pandemics. But the plan as of 20 December was to open borders to low risk countries mid April. Whether that stays the case given what has happened in the last two weeks remains to be seen.

But everyone is currently on holiday and our situation is stable so we haven't heard from any ministers since before Christmas.  

Edited January 5, 2022 by lewelma

[Laura Corin]

8 minutes ago, lewelma said:

Agreed. It will be interesting to hear what they have to say when they come off of summer holidays. Part of what they have always said is that by running behind everyone else, we can learn from international experience. And we can have better methods in hospitals and pharmaceuticals because they are being constantly developed. I also think they don't mind being half way between China's approach and the west's approach, and doing some lockdowns. That is why I was posting here about a middle way. I do think we have some lockdowns are in our future and I don't consider them authoritarian. I also think they are aiming for a 90% coverage rate with boosters (to reduce severity but not spread) before they let omicron in if at all possible.

And yes, they are talking about making the facilities permanent in anticipation of future pandemics. But the plan as of 20 December was to open borders to low risk countries mid April. Whether that stays the case given what has happened in the last two weeks remains to be seen.

But everyone is currently on holiday and our situation is stable so we haven't heard from any ministers since before Christmas.  

I hope that you get there with boosters.  Gibraltar is currently highest in the world at 80%, but they actually also vaccinate people who work in Gibraltar but live in Spain, so their vaccination pool is more than 100 percent of their population.  As of December 31st, Scotland was fourth in the world, at 55% of total population boostered.

[lewelma]

13 minutes ago, Laura Corin said:

I hope that you get there with boosters.  Gibraltar is currently highest in the world at 80%, but they actually also vaccinate people who work in Gibraltar but live in Spain, so their vaccination pool is more than 100 percent of their population.  As of December 31st, Scotland was fourth in the world, at 55% of total population boostered.

Ah, I was talking about 12+. We have 92% double vaxed, and I'm guessing that they will mostly all get the booster. We have the iwi finally involved now, (maori tribes, the govt was slow to ask for their help) so they are pushing hard in the rural areas.  We are only starting to vaccine kids next week. So definitely not 90% of the entire population can be boosted by April.  Also, we were late to the party because we had supply problems, so 65% of the population is under the four month cut off right now. I can't get my booster until mid Feb even with reducing it to a four month delay and I got my two shots the moment I was allowed. We got from 23% to 92% in twelve weeks. So it is definitely on people's minds. 

Edited January 5, 2022 by lewelma

[SKL]

4 hours ago, lewelma said:

I would rather see an honest pros and cons news article. NZ's largest sector, tourism, is floundering. Our house prices are skyrocketing. We have a major labour shortage. But we have freedom and live without fear. So it is not all roses over here. But the media accounts that I have read of China and Hong Kong are focusing on just the negatives of the approach and not the positives. There is misery everywhere, but I would appreciate some nuance from the media when comparing responses. 

I agree that the media isn't trying.

Just wanted to note that when I recently traveled to India, I was perplexed to see NZ as one of the countries on India's highest risk countries list (re Covid).  [The US was not on that list.]  I haven't had any time to research why that would be.  Any thoughts?

https://www.forbes.com/advisor/in/travel/2021/12/28/latest-information-and-guidance-for-travel-to-india/

[Laura Corin]

1 hour ago, lewelma said:

Ah, I was talking about 12+. We have 92% double vaxed, and I'm guessing that they will mostly all get the booster. We have the iwi finally involved now, (maori tribes, the govt was slow to ask for their help) so they are pushing hard in the rural areas.  We are only starting to vaccine kids next week. So definitely not 90% of the entire population can be boosted by April.  Also, we were late to the party because we had supply problems, so 65% of the population is under the four month cut off right now. I can't get my booster until mid Feb even with reducing it to a four month delay and I got my two shots the moment I was allowed. We got from 23% to 92% in twelve weeks. So it is definitely on people's minds. 

Ah, okay.  These are Scotland's 1st, 2nd and 3rd doses, as of 31 December:

Our test positivity rate is around 22% and we have 12,000 new cases per day, for a population of about 5 million. 

[Ausmumof3]

5 hours ago, AurieD said:

Do you think NZ's strategy going to hold up once Omicron is there?

Here in WA we've also been very successful in suppressing Covid. The recent Delta outbreak has been kept to very small numbers due to high vaccination rates, contract tracing, and some restrictions/masking requirements. However I am very concerned about what is going to happen here when we open on Feb 5th given vaccination seems so much less effective against Omicron.

Somehow I never realised you were in Aus. TBH I kind of hope WA holds out on opening the border.  Vaccination is not enough.

[AurieD]

5 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Somehow I never realised you were in Aus. TBH I kind of hope WA holds out on opening the border.  Vaccination is not enough.

I think there is very little chance of that, the date seems pretty set. It concerns me, but I also don’t know that waiting will do anything but delay the inevitable. 
 

I do hold out hope that McGowan will impose lockdowns and restrictions if necessary.

[Dmmetler]

14 hours ago, Quill said:

Yes, it is very different. The values are totally different, though, and the expectation from governments/citizens; all very different. 

Our local hospital situation is absolutely dire, and it is bound to worsen. I know so many people with covid right now its mind-boggling. I’m beginning to think I should pray before I drive the car because the EMS is overwhelmed and Im more afraid than usual about getting emergency medical care. 

Definitely pray before you drive. The number of cases coming into the trauma ICU just in the limited time we're allowed to visit my mom are terrifying, and many of these folks desperately need resources which are in high demand due to COVID. Add the snow and ice hitting the East Coast, and more expected tomorrow, and it's going to make things even more dire. 

 

 

 

[Farrar]

Since we were talking about China and NZ, just pointing out that Taiwan is also an example of a potential middle way. 

[Janeway]

14 hours ago, Teaching3bears said:

There were a million new cases in the US today.  If the US population is 329 million, does that mean that 1/329 tested positive today/yesterday alone.?  Yikes.  Correct me if I’m wrong.  

The data I am finding online is that that is how many tests were taken. Only a portion of those were positive. But your math would be correct if that were how many people were positive yesterday.

[Farrar]

In terms of the number of cases... the 1 million was a data dump where lots of states had not reported for several days.

But yesterday's numbers were half a million. That's NOT a data dump. And we know we're undercounting - the number I've seen most often is by about 4 times. So, in other words, there's almost no way there wasn't a million Covid cases in the US yesterday.

[lewelma]

9 hours ago, SKL said:

I agree that the media isn't trying.

Just wanted to note that when I recently traveled to India, I was perplexed to see NZ as one of the countries on India's highest risk countries list (re Covid).  [The US was not on that list.]  I haven't had any time to research why that would be.  Any thoughts?

https://www.forbes.com/advisor/in/travel/2021/12/28/latest-information-and-guidance-for-travel-to-india/

NZ Indians are pretty hacked off about that. In was in the news just before Christmas.  Sounds like it is in response to India being put on our no fly list a few months back.