Is owning a home still the American Dream?

[Lecka]

Things that can effect a rental market can include people moving away, more apartments being built, and more loan programs for low-income homebuyers.  
 

These are some of the things that caused my sister’s town to be a poor rental market.

I have heard that a neighborhood near to where I live now is being identified nationally as a place with high ROIs for landlords.  So — it does depend!  

[Shelydon]

We have owned our home outright for 13 years.  We purchased it 21 years ago and paid it off as fast as possible. What I find among the some of my age group (mid 40s) and younger is they have no idea how to maintain a house.  At all.  They can't afford to have a handyman come fix everything so the house falls into serious disrepair.  Ceiling fans don't work ,they don't know how to change AC filters, garbage disposal is broken, leaky faucets, minor holes in the wall, minor electrical work etc. My neighbors couldn't figure out how to light the pilot light on their heating system.  I had to send my 10 yo over to do it.  He also fixed their garage door opener and replaced a door knob at the same time.  If people aren't willing to learn how to do home repair, then I am not sure it is work purchasing a home unless you make enough to cover the cost of maintenance.  If you rent, the landlord takes care of all of that stuff.

[HeartString]

17 minutes ago, Lecka said:

I think it is an open question whether it’s better to be a small-time landlord or invest in the stock market.  Like — which one is *better.* 

My family members have done small-time landlord and for one of my sisters, she turned out to live somewhere that it turned out to be a poor investment.  

I think it’s one of those things where it can be hard to believe, if you live one place, that it could be different another place.

But my sister has had a horrible experience while doing “everything right” as far as what my family would say was doing things in a good way.

It’s just not a good market. 

It is a sad thing to feel like — she had bad advice.  
 

But she could have chosen to diversify, too.  
 

She didn’t want to be in the stock market after the stock market crash and switched to rentals.  Then the rentals — she is getting out of them now, and it’s break-even (slightly more than break-even I guess) over 10-15 years, and in the meantime, look at what the stock market has done.

And other rental markets have done great, too.  But not her town!

I think diversity is always the best advice.   

[Arcadia]

3 hours ago, HeartString said:

Oh my.  I just don’t understand how anyone buys a $2 million home!  Even my friends who make low 6 figures couldn’t afford that.  

Dual income and mostly late 30s, early 40s trading up from owning a condo. Here there is a general expectation of spending more than half your family income on the mortgage.  

2 hours ago, Lecka said:

I do not totally understand the house end-game for HCOL, because do they end up that you have to sell the family home to realize the profits?  
 

And do you ever stop paying a mortgage?

Depends on when they buy. Some of my friends bought before 2004 and paid $600k to $800k for a single family home that are worth more than $2mil now. Some bought during the Great Recession when the housing market crashed. They are done with their mortgages and they are in their late 40s.
As for retirement, medical costs is the big unknown for my social circle. 401k would be adequate for general living expenses if our spouses are gainfully employed until 65. Some of my friends are dual income. Many are also sending their kids to state universities since our EFCs are all very high and would be close to full pay for privates. 

[JustEm]

46 minutes ago, Lecka said:

I think it is an open question whether it’s better to be a small-time landlord or invest in the stock market.  Like — which one is *better.* 

My family members have done small-time landlord and for one of my sisters, she turned out to live somewhere that it turned out to be a poor investment.  

I think it’s one of those things where it can be hard to believe, if you live one place, that it could be different another place.

But my sister has had a horrible experience while doing “everything right” as far as what my family would say was doing things in a good way.

It’s just not a good market. 

It is a sad thing to feel like — she had bad advice.  
 

But she could have chosen to diversify, too.  
 

She didn’t want to be in the stock market after the stock market crash and switched to rentals.  Then the rentals — she is getting out of them now, and it’s break-even (slightly more than break-even I guess) over 10-15 years, and in the meantime, look at what the stock market has done.

And other rental markets have done great, too.  But not her town!

That sucks about your sister.  I have people close to me who chose the wrong markets and things turned out poorly. But for them, they had a more balance portfolio so what they lost in the housing market they made up for and then some in the stock market.  The risk is certainly there in every market and that is why diversifying is really important.  

[Lecka]

So you also have 401ks.

I have heard people in HCOL say their house is their retirement fund.  Like — literally.  They don’t have another retirement fund.  
 

If you have a 401k — that is what I am familiar with.

 

How people tend to be friends with people similar to them — maybe — my ILs know all people who think real estate is the best investment ever and don’t do any other investments.  Or maybe they do and my ILs aren’t aware of it.

 

I know very few people who live in HCOL.  Mainly only my ILs and they are all really into having expensive houses.  

 

[DawnM]

15 hours ago, GracieJane said:

These are insightful responses, thank you! 
 

If you live in a LCOL area, do you still have access to cultural centers like art museums, concerts, botanical gardens, etc.? Forgive my lack of knowledge, I didn’t grow up in the US.

I don't really live in a LCOL, I would say it is moderate, and I live just outside of a larger size city.    There are many cultural events, they won't be as large as LA or NYC, but we have them.

Edited August 21, 2021 by DawnM

[JustEm]

24 minutes ago, Lecka said:

So you also have 401ks.

I have heard people in HCOL say their house is their retirement fund.  Like — literally.  They don’t have another retirement fund.  
 

If you have a 401k — that is what I am familiar with.

 

How people tend to be friends with people similar to them — maybe — my ILs know all people who think real estate is the best investment ever and don’t do any other investments.  Or maybe they do and my ILs aren’t aware of it.

 

I know very few people who live in HCOL.  Mainly only my ILs and they are all really into having expensive houses.  

 

From my experience, mot people focus too heavily on one thing, whether it be only their house, only their 401k, only a non-tax advantaged account, only a pension, etc.  Very few people who openly talk about their finances with me have well rounded portfolios.  Financial illiteracy is a major issue in this country.  Not sure how it is worldwide.

[Arcadia]

23 minutes ago, Lecka said:

So you also have 401ks.

I have heard people in HCOL say their house is their retirement fund.  Like — literally.  They don’t have another retirement fund.  

If you have a 401k — that is what I am familiar with.

Many of my neighbors work for Google. The employer match 401k contributions to a certain extent. My husband works for another big tech and he would max his 401k employer contribution. 
None in my social circle bought homes they could not afford, as in they buy less  than they can afford. Those who bought single family homes budgeted for repairs when calculating what amount of mortgage they can afford. My social circle is mainly my age peers so late 40s, part of generation X. The Great Recession isn’t our first go at financial crisis. 

[JustEm]

15 hours ago, GracieJane said:

These are insightful responses, thank you! 
 

If you live in a LCOL area, do you still have access to cultural centers like art museums, concerts, botanical gardens, etc.? Forgive my lack of knowledge, I didn’t grow up in the US.

Where we are situated which is more MCOL there are plenty of cultural centers and major cities are within an hour of us so even  more options with a short trip. But we are on the east coast where philly and baltimore are within an hour drive and nyc is only a few hours.  Other parts of the country don't necessarily have the same ability for cultural arts exposure. 

[Sneezyone]

Housing has been a good investment for us and we have encouraged our kids to be owners, at the same time we’ve also encouraged them to establish share-builder investment accounts and start saving for retirement too. We started out as reluctant landlords and now wouldn’t trade it for anything. Our biggest regret was selling the starter home we bought in 2002. We paid, maybe 122k for that house and it’s worth 400k today. Because of DHs job, we always end up in desirable, coastal, moderate to HCOL areas so our homes generally have appreciated. I know many people who’ve bought homes at every duty station. The one exception for us is our AR house which, if we could pack it up and relocate it, would be great for retirement. Retirees rent it now.

Edited August 21, 2021 by Sneezyone

[Clarita]

3 hours ago, Lecka said:

I do not totally understand the house end-game for HCOL, because do they end up that you have to sell the family home to realize the profits?  
 

And do you ever stop paying a mortgage?

You sell or rent out the family home and downsize either by size or move out of the area. So my mom bought her 4bd 2 bath house for $250k sold it for almost $1mil, then she could theoretically take that and buy a 1 or 2 bd condo for a bit less in the same area. What she ended up doing was move out of the country into another HCOL area but into a much smaller place. However she still has 401k , a bit of savings, and I didn't need our family home. 

In terms of inheritance your kids inherit your property and sell it. In CA though I think there are ways to also keep the property tax based on what your parents paid for the house as opposed to what it is worth now. 

You can stop paying for a mortgage same as any other place by living within your means and not borrowing more money. Not saying living within your means is easy to do or let's you own a house or even stay in the area.

1 hour ago, Lecka said:

I think it is an open question whether it’s better to be a small-time landlord or invest in the stock market.  Like — which one is *better.* 

I think investing wisely in the stock market (as in you would have to be willing to put actual work into it - calculate your investments to try and buy low and sell high, and "leveraging" some of your positions to protect from loses in the stocks or paying someone to do some of that for you). I haven't heard great stories about being a small time landlord even in my HCOL area, unless you inherited the property. I think you can become a big time landlord it is more lucrative and that can be done through REIG (real estate investment group) where several people pool their money together to buy bigger properties (like full apartment buildings or commercial property).

There's a reason for the saying the first million is the hardest. It's a lot easier to make more money if you have more money to start with.   

[GracieJane]

2 hours ago, HeartString said:

I think living in a very high cost of living areas skews the whole idea, honestly.  Buying a house in the 7 figures on a modest income is really choosing to invest mostly in a house at the expense of other investments. If most of your assets are in the house like your ILs and you are cash poor because you couldn’t invest elsewhere you are going to have to sell the house, wether you want to or not.  

So most of my friends (here in Los Angeles) have pretty good careers and rent. A lot of the tech people get 401k matching and that seems to be the primary investment venue at this time (in our 30s). I don’t know anyone who is planning to buy a home here, and it seems like when they arrive at the home-buying stage, they move to Texas. 😉 

[Bootsie]

The practicality and the benefits of owning a house vary greatly depending on someone's location.  Research suggests that, on average, people in the US overestimate the value and return to owning property.  High returns on property investment tend to be localized and occur in small, unpredictable bursts.  So, it is very hard to get an "average" return.  It is also much more difficult to try to diversify one's investments with real estate.  If you buy a $500,000 house, you have invested  $500,000 in one peice of property in one particular location that will have a return based upon how that particular real estate market does.  If you invest $500,000 in 20 different stocks your return will be influenced by a much greater number of variables. 

[katilac]

17 hours ago, Lecka said:

 Maybe this is just something with my ILs?  Right now they are looking at retiring, but they don’t want to move.  They have a lot of money in their house, but how does that turn into money for them to live off in retirement, unless they downsize drastically or move out of the area?  
 

Houses only turn into money when you sell them or rent them. 

17 hours ago, RootAnn said:

A starter home here can be had here for $40-50k. That's usually a 2 Bdrm, 1 bath but could be different/more depending on condition. That is achievable for a single person on a teacher salary or two people on full time fast food jobs.

😲

15 hours ago, Lecka said:

 

I have heard people in HCOL say their house is their retirement fund.  Like — literally.  They don’t have another retirement fund.  
 

I don't see how you regard your house as your retirement fund without having the awareness that you will have to move out of it in order for that to work out. 

[Hilltopmom]

On 8/20/2021 at 8:43 PM, GracieJane said:

These are insightful responses, thank you! 
 

If you live in a LCOL area, do you still have access to cultural centers like art museums, concerts, botanical gardens, etc.? Forgive my lack of knowledge, I didn’t grow up in the US.

Um, no. Rural areas don’t have those things. But we do have mountains, lakes, hiking, skiing, camping, biking. We drive 4-6 hours for things like concerts or museums (usually weekend trips). Same for any medical specialists. 
however, we can afford on one income, a 4 bedroom house on a gorgeous lake in an area where people come for vacations, it’s so beautiful

We do have small local concerts at the high schools and the nearby university plus youth sports, school theater, amateur community theater.

🙂Then there’s my oldest who lives in an even lower COL area where he could buy a house for $50,000 but it might never resell. He’s in an old industrial city that’s mostly vacant now.

Edited August 22, 2021 by Hilltopmom

[Arcadia]

21 hours ago, Bootsie said:

The practicality and the benefits of owning a house vary greatly depending on someone's location.  Research suggests that, on average, people in the US overestimate the value and return to owning property.  High returns on property investment tend to be localized and occur in small, unpredictable bursts.  So, it is very hard to get an "average" return.  It is also much more difficult to try to diversify one's investments with real estate.  If you buy a $500,000 house, you have invested  $500,000 in one peice of property in one particular location that will have a return based upon how that particular real estate market does.  If you invest $500,000 in 20 different stocks your return will be influenced by a much greater number of variables. 

That is true for rental properties but not on the main abode. If you don’t have anywhere to stay, you would be paying rent to someone. So for someone who can buy and hold, working near their home, the eventual savings on rent is substantial in a high rent area.

For example, renting cost about $36k per year in my area for a two bedroom apartment. Property tax and HOA cost me about $11k per year. I itemized my tax deductions for federal tax so was able to use my mortgage and property tax for the deductions. Now I take the standard deduction because it is higher and my mortgage is paid off a few years ago.

[SKL]

I think it still is where I live.

I think there is a lot of security in knowing you will always have a roof over your head, even if it might be a leaky roof at times.

Property taxes can mess with this, but I still think it's less stressful than paying rent.

[Bootsie]

8 hours ago, katilac said:

Houses only turn into money when you sell them or rent them. 

😲

I don't see how you regard your house as your retirement fund without having the awareness that you will have to move out of it in order for that to work out. 

Some people use reverse mortgages--not that I would recommend that in most situations. 

[SKL]

On 8/20/2021 at 8:43 PM, GracieJane said:

These are insightful responses, thank you! 
 

If you live in a LCOL area, do you still have access to cultural centers like art museums, concerts, botanical gardens, etc.? Forgive my lack of knowledge, I didn’t grow up in the US.

I don't exactly live in a LCOL, but I think we're somewhat below the national average.

We have easy access to all of the above, yes, and also to lots of nature and farmland.  And relatively breathable air.

[SKL]

22 hours ago, Bootsie said:

The practicality and the benefits of owning a house vary greatly depending on someone's location.  Research suggests that, on average, people in the US overestimate the value and return to owning property.  High returns on property investment tend to be localized and occur in small, unpredictable bursts.  So, it is very hard to get an "average" return.  It is also much more difficult to try to diversify one's investments with real estate.  If you buy a $500,000 house, you have invested  $500,000 in one peice of property in one particular location that will have a return based upon how that particular real estate market does.  If you invest $500,000 in 20 different stocks your return will be influenced by a much greater number of variables. 

There is value that doesn't readily convert to cash dollars.  I could list a lot of reasons that home ownership has enhanced my family's well-being over the years.

[Bootsie]

43 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

That is true for rental properties but not on the main abode. If you don’t have anywhere to stay, you would be paying rent to someone. So for someone who can buy and hold, working near their home, the eventual savings on rent is substantial in a high rent area.

For example, renting cost about $36k per year in my area for a two bedroom apartment. Property tax and HOA cost me about $11k per year. I itemized my tax deductions for federal tax so was able to use my mortgage and property tax for the deductions. Now I take the standard deduction because it is higher and my mortgage is paid off a few years ago.

Once you figure in your capital that is tied up in the house, however, the financial benefit is not as great.  

Suppose your house is a $400,000 house and you have paid of your mortgage and own it.  If you had that $400,000 in an investment that averaged 8% return, you would get $32,000 per year (and still have your $400,000 capital)--you are using the $400,000 in capital to fund your $32,000 of your housing expenses.

If you have the $400,000 invested in real estate it is generating the "return" of your living there.  If a $400,000 would rent for $40,000 per year it is generating $40,000 fo you, but then you have property tax, HOA, the costs of painting, reroofing, replacing the dishwasher, insurance (which is generally higher than renters insurance).  If all of those add up to more than $8000 per year, your home is providing you less than $32,000 toward hosusing expenses.  

It is also an item that has high transaction costs to sell (compared to many other investments) and limits you to spending your implied $40,000 return in one particular location.  

[Bootsie]

7 minutes ago, SKL said:

There is value that doesn't readily convert to cash dollars.  I could list a lot of reasons that home ownership has enhanced my family's well-being over the years.

Yes, there can be many other reasons for owning a home.  For some people there are a number of non-cash benefits (I am one of those people).  For others I know, the non-monetary considerations are actually negatives.  I have known a number of highly succsessful, financially astute people who have seldom owned a home (for both investment and emotional reasons).

[SKL]

If you expect to move for your career or other reasons, then yes, the value of homeownership is a lot less.  But it could still work out to be beneficial.

For example, for the same amount of cash (on average), homeownership in many areas means a lot more square footage for the buck.  It can also mean more privacy and freedom to "do you."  For many families, it's access to better schools and services.

For people who know they aren't going to stay very long, homeownership can be a project - buy a fixer-upper, fix it up and sell it - or it can just be a more comfortable short-term solution.  If you buy cheap enough, then there is also less of a hurry to sell it.

But yes, there are people for whom homeownership is not a goal, sure.

Edited August 22, 2021 by SKL

[Murphy101]

Most I know are not even interested until they are having kids.  This generation is regularly being told to expect that they will have any one job on average 5-8 years and with jobs being who knows where, most people I know under 30 think buying is foolish bc they can’t imagine living in one spot for 10+ years. Unless they need the space for work or kids, they don’t even want to rent a house. Bc that’s a lot of upkeep they don’t have time for.

Dh and I were planning by on having our house paid off in 8ish years. And have slowly been updating stuff as we can do that at that time we can get a good return.  We’d like to either rent it for income or sell it and downsize to something that will be more elder-friendly and paid off.  And so far all our kids are within an 8 he drive, which is really pleasant.  But now with his current lay off - who knows. It would really suck to be desperately trying to find someone who will rent for more than our current mortgage to a large family with four pets in a strange city.  Just thinking about it gives me mild heart palpations.  Hopefully he will find a job local and we can avoid that. 

[Arcadia]

19 minutes ago, Bootsie said:

Once you figure in your capital that is tied up in the house, however, the financial benefit is not as great.  

Suppose your house is a $400,000 house and you have paid of your mortgage and own it.  If you had that $400,000 in an investment that averaged 8% return, you would get $32,000 per year (and still have your $400,000 capital)--you are using the $400,000 in capital to fund your $32,000 of your housing expenses.

My current home actually cost $400k and we bought in 2006. My neighbors are selling the same floor plan for close to $800k. Rents are crazy high here. We won’t looking at the financial aspect actually but more at not worrying about forever increasing rent. When we bought in 2006, our rent was $1,150/month. Now we would be lucky to pay anything under $3k/month in the same area. Housing costs here has gone up faster than take home pay. 

[Scarlett]

On 8/21/2021 at 9:31 AM, Hoggirl said:

@HeartString - check out Garvan Woodland Gardens in Hot Springs when you move back to Arkansas. There is also a botanical garden in Fayetteville.  No idea where in the state you are moving to. We no longer live in Arkansas but did for MANY years (my dh is from Little Rock) before downsizing and moving to Florida. Crystal Bridges Museum in Bentonville is not to be missed for anyone traveling to Arkansas. 

We have always been home owners and have owned second homes (small cabin or condo) for a significant portion of our marriage.  We are now in a condo (that cost significantly more than any of our previous single-family homes did) on the Gulf Coast. We never made a ton of money on any of our homes, but we never lost any either.  I am thankful we bought this place when we did as prices for our units in our building have increased substantially over the last 15 mos. 

 

On 8/21/2021 at 9:57 AM, HeartString said:

I had forgotten about Garvin Woodland Gardens, I was stuck on the word botanical. That place is so nice at Christmas.  

@HeartString What part of AR are you moving back to? We have family in Hot Springs and I can see moving there in retirement. It is a beautiful area.  
 

There are many beautiful areas in Arkansas.  I really miss it.

[maize]

On 8/20/2021 at 4:47 PM, GracieJane said:

I live in Los Angeles and the cost of housing is very high. For reference: a one-bedroom rental in my neighborhood lists at $2,200/month, the average house sells between $990k - $1.5 million. 
 

I’ve only lived in coastal metropolitans here and overseas, so I don’t have much experience with housing prices in the middle of the country. Most of my friends in LA (college and post-grad, early 30s) rent. Do most people still assume they will eventually own a home? Is this still a middle class American Dream?

We left Los Angeles to move to a state with affordable housing. 

[Bootsie]

57 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

My current home actually cost $400k and we bought in 2006. My neighbors are selling the same floor plan for close to $800k. Rents are crazy high here. We won’t looking at the financial aspect actually but more at not worrying about forever increasing rent. When we bought in 2006, our rent was $1,150/month. Now we would be lucky to pay anything under $3k/month in the same area. Housing costs here has gone up faster than take home pay. 

Yes, some areas will have rapid increases in housing prices, but those usually occur in pockets as regards to time and place.

If you bought a house for $400K in 2006 and sell in 2021, 15 years later at $800K, that gives you just under an 8% per year increase in value (which is higher than the long-run US average according to the research by Yale economist Robert Shiller).  If you factor in a 6% commission on the $800,000, you would net $752,000, which drops the return to about 7.25% per year.  That is not considering any other expenditures you make--new roof, carpeting, closing costs, fresh paint, etc.--all which decrease your return.  

 

[Scarlett]

Xh and I bought our first home in 1987 for $37,900. It was a great house, great neighborhood.  In 2002 we sold it for $75,000. The house next door to that one just sold for $97,500. It is about 1700 sf….original wood floors, nice little house but very dated.  The man, our former neighbor recently died.  I did not know the pool had been filled in.  That made me sad……I swam in the pool every day when I was pregnant with my ds 22 years ago. 

Here in OK 45 min or so from Tulsa, we just bought a house 2 years ago for $140K. 1/2 acre in town, nice neighborhood, with a pool and a structure that we plan to convert to a rental someday.  
 

I hate this town though.  

 

[J-rap]

On 8/21/2021 at 9:07 AM, Lecka said:

But he will save for the future in some other way, at some point, I assume.

His domicile won’t be his retirement fund.  
 

My ILs have a lot of value in their home, but how do they retire, and get to live in their house while also having money?

 

They don’t want to sell their house.  They don’t want to move out of the area.

 

What I am saying is more — we have less house value, but we have other assets.  We can have a paid-off house.  We foresee being able to stay in our house until we want to move or have to move.  
 

My ILs  want to stay in their house, too, but I don’t know if they will be able to.  Because all their money is in their house, basically.  
 

Do other people in HCOL just do better planning?  
 

Edit:  my understanding is that it’s always a rational choice to invest in more property value because it will appreciate so much and you are using leverage. 
 

But then how do you pay off your house, and how do you eventually realize that money without also not having a house?  Or really moving into a much cheaper house in some way?

My parents didn't have a lot of cash, but they were able to stay in their (nice) home for years after retirement.  Their social security basically paid for their living expenses, and their house had been paid for years earlier.  But, my dad was very healthy and active and he got a seasonal part-time job preparing tax returns at an accounting firm until he turned 80.  He also continued to do all home and yard maintenance until he was about 85.  (Although there was plenty of family nearby to help, if he'd let them!)  My mother had a seasonal job too -- her own little business that she loved -- that she held on to until she was 75.  They considered that money their traveling and fun money.

 

[Faith-manor]

2 hours ago, Bootsie said:

Yes, some areas will have rapid increases in housing prices, but those usually occur in pockets as regards to time and place.

If you bought a house for $400K in 2006 and sell in 2021, 15 years later at $800K, that gives you just under an 8% per year increase in value (which is higher than the long-run US average according to the research by Yale economist Robert Shiller).  If you factor in a 6% commission on the $800,000, you would net $752,000, which drops the return to about 7.25% per year.  That is not considering any other expenditures you make--new roof, carpeting, closing costs, fresh paint, etc.--all which decrease your return.  

 

Right. Most people I know only consider what they pay for mortgage vs. for rent. They do not consider what it means financially to make major repairs plus property taxes, bond issues for town improvements, liability insurance baked into homeowner's insurance, and interest paid over the life of that loan. 

I think my middle boy who is going to vanlife live for a while as he pays off student loans, and then begin investing probably will do better than his sister and her husband who fully intend on buying a home in a few years.

[Murphy101]

I don’t think most people know how much maintenance is involved in owning a property. But I also think most people buy bc they can’t afford to rent anymore and even after the taxes and insurance added on, the monthly cost of a mortgage is usually less than rent.

And it comes out after a house is paid off too. So many elderly people flat out refuse to leave their paid off home and think it has so much value but most people over 65/70 start to struggle with the upkeep of their property. They can’t physically do it themselves like they might have 10 or more years before. And their funds are depleted enough that they can’t afford to pay someone either. Usually it’s kept up on at first but then every year they “wait until” on another thing. My husband’s grandma thinks her house is worth over half a million. And it probably would be after a $250k in repairs and updates.

[Amy Gen]

We used to live in a low cost of living area, and were able to get a great deal on our first house. Ten years later, we sold it for double what we paid, then we bought another house with acreage, ten years ago, and we are under contract to sell that for almost double what we paid for it. 
 

We are now in a very high cost of living area and plan to stay here at least until our youngest graduates in 6 years. We may not buy again unless there is a sharp downturn in prices. For now, we are just doubling up what we contribute in our matched  401k. It feels weird not to own a home, but we will reassess each year. For now, we have a lovely rental that is well below market price, but I know how quickly situations can change. 
 

 

[HeartString]

4 hours ago, Scarlett said:

 

@HeartString What part of AR are you moving back to? We have family in Hot Springs and I can see moving there in retirement. It is a beautiful area.  
 

There are many beautiful areas in Arkansas.  I really miss it.

We are from right outside Little Rock but are moving to Texarkana after living in VA for a few years. 

[Scarlett]

38 minutes ago, HeartString said:

We are from right outside Little Rock but are moving to Texarkana after living in VA for a few years. 

Ah, ok.  My best friend lived in Texarkana for several years….it isn’t the prettiest part of AR but close enough  to go see the pretty parts when you want.