S/o Sick Shaming

[Matryoshka]

3 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

It's not weird to think that SARS2 might behave more like SARS1 than like Varicella. 

I literally just said that it's nothing like Varicella.  How did you get that you thought it would be more like Varicella, when I said the exact opposite?

[SKL]

I mean if I ran into a burning building to save someone who couldn't walk out, should I waive medical care in case I got burned doing something I didn't need to do?

Anyway, it's moot ... I got the vax because it was supposed to help end this mess.  I still can't in good conscience visit my folks or go to church.  But yay.  If I get sick, people who don't know me won't shame me.  Maybe.

[Matryoshka]

4 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

I didn't say that you said it was more like Varicella....I said it's not weird to think that it might behave more like SARS1 than like Varicella. 

Meaning.....yes, most coronaviruses don't behave like chicken pox and confer life long immunity............but rather that this one, because it's closest cousin is SARS1......it probably behaves more like that than like anything else. 

Maybe.  Maybe not.  SARS1 was also very different from SARS2 in many ways.  That's not a conclusion I'd want to bet my life on.

[Shoeless]

15 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

Certainly, he would have gotten the vaccine if it had been available to him at the time.  

I never know what kind of response you are looking for in these threads.  No one here blames you for your husband's death.  No one is shaming you because he didn't get a vaccine that wasn't even available at the time. 

[KSera]

19 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

The thing is.....it's not as easily avoidable as you are assessing it to be (just like others are not assessing their risk to be unreasonable even though you think their assessment is.)  Unless of course you make a real effort to avoid people. 

I’m talking about right now, with vaccines available. It’s very easy for most people to avoid hospitalization by getting vaccinated. Based on the last couple posts I’m thinking maybe we’re having two different conversations, because I wasn’t relating any of this to things that happened pre vaccine. I was talking about someone feeling better about the risk of getting purposely exposed to Covid right now compared to getting vaccinated. That’s a no contest statistical calculation that doesn’t work out in the favor of choosing to get exposed. 

[WildflowerMom]

21 hours ago, Pen said:

there’s lots that could be explored there...

How about obese people who didn’t use the last year to get their weight under control? how about people who consume sugar which is a depressor of immune function? How about people who refused to bring their vitamin D levels up to optimum level?  
 

I think ptb  refusing to provide or in many cases even allow what was found to help in terms of prophylaxis and early home treatment or early out patient treatment largely as well, should be considered criminal,  snd that if such treatment were provided it would hugely reduce the strain on hospital and other systems 

Fil and mil have covid.  They both began ivermectin and hydrochl yesterday, and fil began monoclonal antibody infusion today.  I’m curious to see how they do.  

[Sneezyone]

35 minutes ago, Pawz4me said:

Believe me, as the spouse of someone with a serious disease--through no fault of his own--who requires lots of medical care I was being absolutely serious. I have zero tolerance for anyone who does anything to further overburden our health care system during a pandemic. Zero tolerance.

This part. My dad has had sarcoidosis for 40+ years and is immunosuppressed. Suppressing the immune system is the treatment. That’s the only treatment. He hasn’t been vaccinated (although he has been encouraged to try) and may never be. He still needs lifesaving care b/c his lungs are shot; he’s on oxygen. Gumming up the works for folks like this *IS SHAMEFUL*. Full stop.

[Sneezyone]

4 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

I think that generally....

 

Our level of control is just so so much smaller than we (general we) want to admit.  We want to be able to FIX THIS.    We want to think that because we are sentient beings and we have enough technology to leave this planet and explore others and we can eradicate small pox and we do all sorts of myriad of other technlogical advancements..........................we should be able to control this.

 

If everyone just does what they are told, we can control this.    It's in our hands.  We can overpower nature.....human and non-human. 

 

But, we can't.  We can't make people behave the right way.  We can't make nature behave the right way.  We can't "shame" people when human nature meets the rest of biology and to paraphrase Jeff Goldblume

 

Life breaks free, finds a way

 

 

I want people to stop creating shame when a virus will find a way. 

That’s funny, because I distinctly remember HUBRIS being at the core of those films, followed by the deployment of common sense and ingenuity. Nothing about this issue screams common sense is being universally applied, rather there’s a sizable chunk of the population thinking severe COVID won’t happen to them because???? Converting on their death beds, begging forgiveness and change. 

Edited August 7, 2021 by Sneezyone

[KSera]

4 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

I think that generally....

 

Our level of control is just so so much smaller than we (general we) want to admit.  We want to be able to FIX THIS.    We want to think that because we are sentient beings and we have enough technology to leave this planet and explore others and we can eradicate small pox and we do all sorts of myriad of other technlogical advancements..........................we should be able to control this.

 

If everyone just does what they are told, we can control this.    It's in our hands.  We can overpower nature.....human and non-human. 

 

But, we can't.  We can't make people behave the right way.  We can't make nature behave the right way.  We can't "shame" people when human nature meets the rest of biology and to paraphrase Jeff Goldblume

 

Life breaks free, finds a way

 

 

I want people to stop creating shame when a virus will find a way. 

You're right. We can't just fix this or make people behave a certain way or control the pandemic or any of those things. Most people can, however, make a choice that keeps them alive and usually out of the hospital. For now, unless this keeps going and we have a variant that totally evades the vaccines, most people do have that level of control.

[ktgrok]

6 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

I think that generally....

 

Our level of control is just so so much smaller than we (general we) want to admit.  We want to be able to FIX THIS.    . 

We can fix overwhelmed hospitals by vaccinating. 

[Sneezyone]

Just now, happysmileylady said:

Hubris like.....................we (society in general................I am not promoting conspiracy theories here.) probably shouldn't be doing GOF research in the first place? 

 

100% right.   There's a WHOLE LOT of Hubris involved in all of this.  

 

I’m not touching the research piece. Don’t know enough about the origins of this to have an opinion. I just know where we are NOW. And, right now, we have a bunch of people acting like the first people killed in a horror movie who a) answer the phone and b) walk confidently into in a room full of chainsaws. That is the reality now.

[Sneezyone]

Just now, happysmileylady said:

Except we can't.    We want to think we can but when we think of things like breakthru cases and kids that can't be vaccinated and the spread that creates, even among those who are vaccinated....................we can't.

 

 

In past threads people have accused me of being "fatalistic"

 

I think of it more like "serenity prayer"

 

Accept the things I cannot change

Change the things I can

wisdom to know the difference

 

 

The data says otherwise. The Northeast is not, I repeat, NOT experiencing the horrors in Florida.

[Innisfree]

1 minute ago, happysmileylady said:

think of things like breakthru cases and kids that can't be vaccinated and the spread that creates, even among those who are vaccinated.

Vaccinations reduce spread by something like 4-8 times, depending on which information you look at. That's a huge difference. It does mean the difference between hospitals which are overwhelmed and hospitals which can function.

[Corraleno]

1 minute ago, happysmileylady said:

Could that be because the Northeast was hit hardest by the initial wave and therefore has statistically more immunity?  Prior infection is hard to account for in current studies so it's pretty hard to say. 

Are you literally arguing that vaccines have no effect on transmission or hospitalization? 

[Sneezyone]

3 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

Could that be because the Northeast was hit hardest by the initial wave and therefore has statistically more immunity?  Prior infection is hard to account for in current studies so it's pretty hard to say. 

No, because ‘natural’ immunity, according to the most recent reports I’ve seen, doesn’t convey adequate protection against reinfection, vaccination is encouraged for people who’ve had COVID, and vaccination rates are correlated with lower transmission and lower hospitalization all over, not just in the northeast.

Edited August 8, 2021 by Sneezyone

[Sneezyone]

3 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

It's actually incredibly difficult to determine how much protective effect that natural immunity has because it's not been studied as much (hmmmmm, wonder why$$$$$$$) 

 

In most studies on immunity, people like me and my kids don't count. 

 

There are other barriers to that sort of study though.  For example.................none of my kids are accounted for in a single statistic.   They never actually tested postive and they never had an antibody test.    I wasn't subjecting a 7yr old who's dad was in ICU to his first blood draw ever to confirm that his middle of the night fever was covid.  I am positive I wasn't the only parent to make that call

Listen, I wish you the best of luck with your choices. ✌ I’m just tired of hearing about people who made the same ones and now regret them.

Edited August 8, 2021 by Sneezyone

[KSera]

With 95-99% of hospitalizations among the unvaccinated, clearly the hospitals would be in much better shape if everyone were vaccinated. Admissions would drop precipitously, and they would have room for those that can’t be vaccinated, whether because they are children or because it’s medically contraindicated. Along with the much smaller number who have breakthrough infections and all of the other regular medical stuff going on right now.

[Sneezyone]

I must admit, I feel like this is reminiscent of chicken pox in terms of natural immunity not conveying the same benefits. I had the pox, survived with visible scars, and now need a shingles vaccine so I don’t suffer with painful skin inflammation. My kids got the vax, never had the pox, and don’t need Shingrix. When we know better, we do better.

Edited August 8, 2021 by Sneezyone

[Sneezyone]

6 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

DH and I discussed this all before he got sick.  We discussed it after he came home after getting his first flu shot ever.

 

I told him............he was going to be first in line for the vax the moment he was eligible.   Full stop, 100%, the day he could get it.  

 

I told him I wasn't sure what I was going to do.   At that time, the vax was not available and I just didn't know.

 

I also told him that I wasn't getting it for the kids until a few years from now.   I didn't get c-pox for DD25, or Guardasil.  DD25 ended up getting Cpox naturally (and ended up with long term issues) and Guardasil she determined herself when she was older..................I dunno. 

 

DH was 100% ok with all of that.  He totally agreed with me on the kids and was unsure about me, but again....we were both unsure.

 

Nature took all those choices from us.   We had no choice.

 

 

Shaming people who have a choice and simply choose differently than you....................is wrong.

Nature did not take the chance to vaccinate your kids from you. *You* made a choice not to vax. That’s fine. We all get to do that. We ALSO have responsibility for those choices. Unlike COVID last year where there was no choice, we CAN choose now. Those choices can/do have consequences. It seems like what folks are asking for is choice without consequence. That’s not how life works. It’s unreasonable and unwarranted.

Edited August 8, 2021 by Sneezyone

[Matryoshka]

22 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

I must admit, I feel like this is reminiscent of chicken pox in terms of natural immunity not conveying the same benefits. I had the pox, survived with visible scars, and now need a shingles vaccine so I don’t suffer with painful skin inflammation. My kids got the vax, never had the pox, and don’t need Shingrix. When we know better, we do better.

Well, not exactly. Shingles is not getting cpox again, it's the dormant virus coming back to goose you. Which actually can also happen after the chicken pox vax, as it's a live vaccine (UN-like any of the Covid vaxes). It's much to early to say how susceptible kids who got cpox vax will be to shingles until they get into their 50s and their immune systems start waning. The theory is the stuff in the vax is too weak to stay squirrled, so it is probably less likely.

I often wonder why they couldn't come up with a cpox vax that wasn't live and thus couldn't trigger shingles at all...

Edited August 8, 2021 by Matryoshka

[Sneezyone]

1 minute ago, happysmileylady said:

Nature took the choice of natural vs vax.   100%.   All 3 of my younger kids got it in succession after DH was admitted.    AND....of those younger kids, only one is currently eligible under the EUA and honestly........she's smaller than the average 12yr old.  She barely qualifies to be out of a booster seat under most state laws.

 

 

NO.....I haven't made a single dang choice for my kids. 

 

 

DD25 has been vaxed.    Her choice...................and she made the right call.  Her moderately controlled asthma means she totally made the right call.  

For COVID. I was talking about cpox. I’m, honestly, amazed that you don’t see that.

[Pen]

13 hours ago, kiwik said:

If you have universal healthcare it is universal - you don't decide who deserves it more except when apportionment things like organ transplants.  Some countries in the current pandemic have had to choose who gets ICU here which has been a major injury to their systems.  

I was replying to someone else’s post ... 

Where the implication is that people who are unvaccinated do not deserve Covid Treatment or at least should be prioritized behind the vaccinated. 
 

obviously countries with universal health care do things differently than ones without

My point is that I want to see the things on the screenshot  list, particularly towards the top of the list and on an early time frame like that (or other early treatment protocols being used in different places) available widely, rather than  focus on picking and choosing who gets heroic (or close) late stage (and often perhaps too late) treatment 

And I was really thinking about USA, not NZ, not Brazil, not Camaroon, not Canada...  but I might have been replying to someone from Australia where I should have been thinking about AU system

 

[Problematic graphic removed by moderator]

[Sneezyone]

1 minute ago, happysmileylady said:

Since you quoted my post that talked about the discussion DH and I had before he got sick with Covid, I think it's weird that thought I meant C-pox.  

You mentioned long term effects from cpox. As people have repeatedly, EXPLICITLY said, no one here lays blame for pre-COVID vaccine deaths.

[Frances]

52 minutes ago, Pen said:

My point is that I want to see the things on the screenshot  list, particularly towards the top of the list and on an early time frame like that (or other early treatment protocols being used in different places) available widely, rather than  focus on picking and choosing who gets heroic (or close) late stage (and often perhaps too late) treatment 

And I was really thinking about USA, not NZ, not Brazil, not Camaroon, not Canada...  but I might have been replying to someone from Australia where I should have been thinking about AU system

 

[Problematic graphic removed by moderator]

Maybe you should become a consultant to hospitals and doctors so you can teach them how to better treat covid patients based on your vast experience, education, and training?

[rebot]

2 hours ago, Corraleno said:

I assume her reference to "prophylaxis and early home treatments" that the "criminal" powers-that-be won't allow = things like HCQ, ivermectin, and various "protocols" that can be found online

I haven't caught up on this thread, but if you would like to see the studies on HCQ, ivermectin, etc... 

https://c19early.com

[Pen]

30 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

I must admit, I feel like this is reminiscent of chicken pox in terms of natural immunity not conveying the same benefits. I had the pox, survived with visible scars, and now need a shingles vaccine so I don’t suffer with painful skin inflammation. My kids got the vax, never had the pox, and don’t need Shingrix. When we know better, we do better.

Shingles seems to be rising in young adults who were previously vaccinated for chicken pox  ... your children may not have reached the stage yet to have peers who were vaccinated now getting shingles

 

[Jean in Newcastle]

1 hour ago, happysmileylady said:

Except we can't.    We want to think we can but when we think of things like breakthru cases and kids that can't be vaccinated and the spread that creates, even among those who are vaccinated....................we can't.

 

 

In past threads people have accused me of being "fatalistic"

 

I think of it more like "serenity prayer"

 

Accept the things I cannot change

Change the things I can

wisdom to know the difference

 

 

Except that highly vaccinated states which also have been careful with mitigation efforts like masking and social distancing and group size (like mine) don't have the hospital overrun that is happening in low vaccinated states.  So no need to be fatalistic.  Be wise instead.  (And no, I'm not blaming you for anything - that's a general "slogan" for all who are reading this.) 

[Sneezyone]

4 minutes ago, Pen said:

Shingles seems to be rising in young adults who were previously vaccinated for chicken pox  ... your children may not have reached the stage yet to have peers who were vaccinated now getting shingles

 

Not particularly concerned but thanks for your insight. https://www.urmc.rochester.edu/encyclopedia/content.aspx?ContentTypeID=90&ContentID=P02551. 
 

[KSera]

@happysmileyladyI'm very truly sorry for how things ended up for your dh. It's totally heartbreaking and I can't imagine how hard even reading about anything covid must be. I wish the shots had been available sooner to him 😔. I don't want other families to suffer like yours, and for that reason hope that everyone who can will get vaccinated.

[rebot]

54 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

No, because ‘natural’ immunity, according to the most recent reports I’ve seen, doesn’t convey adequate protection against reinfection, vaccination is encouraged for people who’ve had COVID, and vaccination rates are correlated with lower transmission and lower hospitalization all over, not just in the northeast.

Here are some studies that show that natural immunity is equal to or exceeds vaccine immunity.  

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8253687/

https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210801/Antibody-responses-following-SARS-CoV-2-infection-more-potent-than-vaccine-elicited-ones.aspx t (still needs to be peer reviewed)

https://www.cell.com/cell-reports-medicine/fulltext/S2666-3791(21)00203-2#secsectitle0030

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.01.21258176v3

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03647-4

Random question, why did you put natural in quotes? Do you not believe that natural immunity exists? Truly curious.

[KSera]

A family member just sent me this as I was reading this thread, and it seems appropriate. It's in the WSJ, which for some reason I can read on my phone, but is paywalled on my computer 🤷‍♀️:

Highly Vaccinated States Keep Worst Covid-19 Outcomes in Check as Delta Spreads, WSJ Analysis Shows

A couple graphics for people who can't view it:

 

The article has the rest of the chart. I don't want to quote too much here--not sure rules for sharing graphics with attributions.

 

eta: I realize now the first one needs some context. It's showing how because the older cohorts are more vaccinated, it is increasingly younger people being hospitalized.

The second chart is showing what hospitalizations are doing in states with more or less of their population vaccinated.

And a quote:

Quote

“What the data tell me is even if I were 22 years old, I’d be scared if I wasn’t vaccinated,” said Philip Landrigan, an epidemiologist who directs the Program for Global Public Health and the Common Good at Boston College. The 79-year-old is fully vaccinated.

 

Edited August 8, 2021 by KSera

[Sneezyone]

8 minutes ago, rebot said:

Here are some studies that show that natural immunity is equal to or exceeds vaccine immunity.  

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8253687/

https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210801/Antibody-responses-following-SARS-CoV-2-infection-more-potent-than-vaccine-elicited-ones.aspx t (still needs to be peer reviewed)

https://www.cell.com/cell-reports-medicine/fulltext/S2666-3791(21)00203-2#secsectitle0030

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.01.21258176v3

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03647-4

Random question, why did you put natural in quotes? Do you not believe that natural immunity exists? Truly curious.

I put it in quotes because I think some people believe vaccine immunity is unnatural.

[Sneezyone]

5 minutes ago, KSera said:

A family member just sent me this as I was reading this thread, and it seems appropriate. It's in the WSJ, which for some reason I can read on my phone, but is paywalled on my computer 🤷‍♀️:

Highly Vaccinated States Keep Worst Covid-19 Outcomes in Check as Delta Spreads, WSJ Analysis Shows

A couple graphics for people who can't view it:

 

The article has the rest of the chart. I don't want to quote too much here--not sure rules for sharing graphics with attributions.

It really isn’t worth arguing anymore. All of the above is required. Vaccines, masks, and distancing.

 

[rebot]

2 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

I put it in quotes because I think some people believe vaccine immunity is unnatural.

Thanks for answering.

I think immunity can be obtained either way. I do find it weird that WHO changed the definition of herd immunity in November 2020. Before that they claimed herd immunity could be obtained through vaccine immunity and/or natural immunity. After they claim it is only possible through vaccination.

[Sneezyone]

1 minute ago, rebot said:

Thanks for answering.

I think immunity can be obtained either way. I do find it weird that WHO changed the definition of herd immunity in November 2020. Before that they claimed herd immunity could be obtained through vaccine immunity and/or natural immunity. After they claim it is only possible through vaccination.

Probably because herd immunity is too costly in terms of mortality. Not an unreasonable decision.

[melmichigan]

27 minutes ago, rebot said:

Here are some studies that show that natural immunity is equal to or exceeds vaccine immunity.  

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8253687/

https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210801/Antibody-responses-following-SARS-CoV-2-infection-more-potent-than-vaccine-elicited-ones.aspx t (still needs to be peer reviewed)

https://www.cell.com/cell-reports-medicine/fulltext/S2666-3791(21)00203-2#secsectitle0030

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.01.21258176v3

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03647-4

Random question, why did you put natural in quotes? Do you not believe that natural immunity exists? Truly curious.

The majority of this seems to be based on studies with the wild or UK variants.  Newer data isn't necessarily supporting natural immunity the same way with delta.  Hadn't we already talked about this when discussing Novavax data?

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7032e1.htm?s_cid=mm7032e1_w

https://www.timesofisrael.com/us-cdc-study-shows-vaccine-gives-covid-19-survivors-big-immune-boost/

 

Edited August 8, 2021 by melmichigan

[TCB]

54 minutes ago, rebot said:

I haven't caught up on this thread, but if you would like to see the studies on HCQ, ivermectin, etc... 

https://c19early.com

I’m glad to see you comment here because I was trying to find the post where you linked the Ivermectin stuff but couldn’t find it for some reason.

I looked at the link and tried to wade through some of the stuff. I have been trying to find some commentary from the pro Ivermectin group concerning the big Egyptian study that has been withdrawn. My understanding is that it played a fairly significant positive role in the meta analyses that are used as evidence for Ivermectin and I was wondering how the withdrawal affected that. Do you have any insight you could share, or any links to comments on it?

[rebot]

26 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

Probably because herd immunity is too costly in terms of mortality. Not an unreasonable decision.

Hmmm.... I'm not sure but I think you mean that based on Covid mortality and previous studies showing vaccine immunity lasted longer it was reasonable decision. Is that correct?

I don't agree, but I can see where you're coming from. Do you think they should change it back now that more recent studies are showing that natural immunity is at least equal to vaccine immunity? Also, they changed the definition for all illnesses not just Covid.

[Sneezyone]

6 minutes ago, rebot said:

Hmmm.... I'm not sure but I think you mean that based on Covid mortality and previous studies showing vaccine immunity lasted longer it was reasonable decision. Is that correct?

I don't agree, but I can see where you're coming from. Do you think they should change it back now that more recent studies are showing that natural immunity is at least equal to vaccine immunity? Also, they changed the definition for all illnesses not just Covid.

I do not believe ‘natural’ immunity is as effective against current/future COVID variants as vaccination and believe vaccination to be the only ethical path forward but I welcome those with natural immunity to test the theory and report back.

Edited August 8, 2021 by Sneezyone

[Sneezyone]

3 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

What would you like me to report back?

Hospitalizations, long COVID, and death. I expect we’ll see more of that in unvaccinated and ‘natural’ immunity populations once the dust settles.

[Sneezyone]

5 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

So, you mean you don't want "report back"

You want data about how unvaxxed natural immunity works.  

 

I want that to.  I want want my hard won immunity to matter.   But it doesn't.  There are few to no studies about how natural immunity plays out.   It's not profitable.  Pfizer and Moderna aren't going to make money for people who don't receive immunity from them and a LOT of people have money in P and M so.................................I want that data as much as you do but I don't believe it's going to be legitimately coming any time soon. 

Yah, no, I don’t think this is a money issue at all. Your hard won immunity cost a life. It’s fundamentally unethical to pursue on a broad scale. It’s your choice, of course, but NO, I don’t want to see that strategy pursued at the expense of more human lives. I was being facetious in the sense that I welcome people who make that choice to report their anecdotes but I would not support research that would deliberately risk more lives.

Edited August 8, 2021 by Sneezyone

[Sneezyone]

5 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

I am not suggesting you specifically want actual studies done that pit life against life.   That's not what I mean.

 

What I mean is that the data you want is just going to be generally speaking EXTREMELY hard to come by because it's not financially viable among those who do that sort of research.   It's not profitable to look at ALL the people in my situation and say hmmm....do they really need to be vaxxed?  

 

There is literally no one on Pfizer's board of directors, or Modernas, or J&J or even Novavax, who is going to say....."you know, may be should check that"

 

And anyone who has money to be on those boards is likely to have their hands in about a million other pots.........

 

Incentive for the research for those of us who aren't going to provide a revenue stream is like non-existant. 

Pfizer is not the only entity doing research. Deliberately exposing people to post-indeterminate COVID recovery to find out how they fare is unethical. The my pillow guy is plenty rich. I’m sure there’d be funding available, money-mouth and all that. No ethical researcher would do such a thing. It’s really fine that we don’t agree on this. As a said, I wish all well with their choices. I’m just tired of hearing about regrets.

Edited August 8, 2021 by Sneezyone

[Frances]

I don’t  know if somebody already posted this, but a small recent study in Kentucky showed unvaccinated after covid were more than twice as likely to get covid again compared to those who were vaccinated after covid.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7032e1.htm?s_cid=mm7032e1_w

[ktgrok]

2 hours ago, happysmileylady said:

Accept the things I cannot change

Change the things I can

wisdom to know the difference

 

 

Vaccination is something people can change. 

2 hours ago, happysmileylady said:

Hospitals would be in much better shape if THEY made better choices too.  They were panic buying TP just like the rest of the US.   Operating on ultra thin admissions margins.   Just in time supply and demand.   Not catering to insurance companies.   And about a nazillion other issues that make HOSPITALS overwhelmed in every disaster they experience.  

 

Unfortunately, it's not profitable to for hospitals to be capable of handling emergencies. 

So rather than reducing how many people need ICU beds, the answer is to have more ICU beds? That makes no sense. 

Right now, in my state, in my area of the state, there are EMS directors saying they don't have enough ambulances to care for everyone, because of how many UNvaccinated Covid patients they are transporting. My friends in hospitals are saying they don't have enough beds. Patients are being treated in conference rooms, on unfinished floors of the hospital. And almost all of them are unvaccinated. So call me crazy, but vaccinating more people would lead to less beds being full. 

 

[Sneezyone]

3 minutes ago, Frances said:

I don’t  know if somebody already posted this, but a small recent study in Kentucky showed unvaccinated after covid were more than twice as likely to get covid again compared to those who were vaccinated after covid.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7032e1.htm?s_cid=mm7032e1_w

This was among the reports I saw. I just don’t care enough to rehash it as minds are made up. I’m comfy with my choices as I assume are others. I just don’t want them clogging up the hospital and depriving others (who do not have the same choices) of care if they’re wrong.

Edited August 8, 2021 by Sneezyone

[KSera]

40 minutes ago, rebot said:

Do you think they should change it back now that more recent studies are showing that natural immunity is at least equal to vaccine immunity? 

No, because the outcome of both isn’t equivalent. One way results in ~1% of those infected dying, while the other does not. That’s millions of avoidable deaths in the US alone. That makes it not an advisable strategy. 

16 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

There are few to no studies about how natural immunity plays out.   It's not profitable.  Pfizer and Moderna aren't going to make money for people who don't receive immunity from them and a LOT of people have money in P and M so.................................I want that data as much as you do but I don't believe it's going to be legitimately coming any time soon. 

There is tons of research being done by scientists all over the world who have nothing to do with any of those companies. Scientists at lots of universities are doing studies looking at all aspects of Covid and I expect there will be more data on this. 

[TravelingChris]

On 8/6/2021 at 4:03 AM, regentrude said:

In a county in MO, the coroner excludes Covid from cause of death so families won't be upset. Made the news.

I think that is what happened in my daughter's husbands family in MS too.

[ktgrok]

19 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

Actually...............it makes PERFECT sense to me.   Be better prepared for emergencies?   Yes please!

 

 

Of course.................I have 30 boxes of pasta, 42 freezer meals, and more liquid cash than I feel is safe to disclose online so perhaps, my prepper mentality is...............off.

 

 

Have more beds available.  Have more cash available to access the beds.  Have the tech installed just in case.   Yes.......................100% and twice on Sundays..............that's exactly how I think this and other things SHOULD be handled.

 

 

 

But reducing sick people...that's not part of the strategy? Cause vaccination means fewer people hospitalized. By a TON. 

I mean, yeah, we could have people catch it and make more beds, but at way too high a cost. 

[TravelingChris]

On 8/6/2021 at 2:52 PM, regentrude said:

LOL -No, I am not! The nutters are the folks who will give their loved ones grief if they find out about the vaccination, the ones who push the poor person to don a wig and creep in in a clandestine manner. If it weren't so serious, it would be hysterically funny. Alas, it is dead serious, and no laughing matter, especially not here.

ETA: And the ostracizing of folks who mask. If you don't want to mask, that's bad enough. But why the hell do people feel the need to mock and harass the ones who do? My friend who lives in a small town near here says the hostility is tangible when she's in the store, as the only masked person.

My son was talking to me about a restaurant in CA that won;;t allow people in unless they can prove they are not vaccinated-we were laughing how illogical that was but I said maybe he wants to try that nickel trick on your arm.  He also refuses to service anyone wearing a mask.  

[TravelingChris]

On 8/6/2021 at 2:52 PM, regentrude said:

LOL -No, I am not! The nutters are the folks who will give their loved ones grief if they find out about the vaccination, the ones who push the poor person to don a wig and creep in in a clandestine manner. If it weren't so serious, it would be hysterically funny. Alas, it is dead serious, and no laughing matter, especially not here.

ETA: And the ostracizing of folks who mask. If you don't want to mask, that's bad enough. But why the hell do people feel the need to mock and harass the ones who do? My friend who lives in a small town near here says the hostility is tangible when she's in the store, as the only masked person.

OH we had that experience,  We live in Al which had a mask mandate and we were going on vacation.  Lots of the states didn't have mask mandates but we still were wearing ours,  But the funny thing was that the only place I saw negative looks was in the adjoining TN county next to ours where we had stopped for gas.   I was the only masked person until I was on my way out when another lady from AL walked in and was also glared at.