Another great thing about my state.... labor laws

[Soror]

I knew that things were great but I didn't realize it was this bad.

Ds got a new job this week. His boss told him that he could work him 12 hrs and he'd get no break. Ds worked 6 hrs the last 2 days. He was told he could maybe sit down for 5 minutes. Yesterday, he packed a sandwich and when it was dead asked one of the managers if he could sit down. So, he sat down and scarfed down his sandwich in 5 minutes. Skipped his pb crackers as he didn't want to take any extra time. When the manager got back he lectured ds on not being committed to the job (that pays minimum wage). 

So, I looked into labor laws and even for minors there are no breaks required, not even a lunch break for full shifts.

Evidently it is not even a federal law, although many states have their own laws.

I guess this is some republican BS that lets companies dictate the rules because in a free market they will do the right thing. Except when they don't.

I want to go in and ask the guy if he eats lunch all day? Does he skip food while working? Does he do as he requires his employees? Ds is going back to McDonald's- they pay well for entry level and treat their employees well.

[Wheres Toto]

Wow, that is crazy.  And can be really dangerous.   I hope they are at least allowing the employees to have water available all day.  

[Sneezyone]

Definitely sounds like a job NO ONE should be working, teens or otherwise. DDs new job is lifeguarding at private pools. She’s making significantly more than the minimum wage and has 10 hour shifts BUT is free to bring food, eat food, and entertain herself while the pool is empty. Then again, labor laws and labor law enforcement exist in this state.

Edited June 10, 2021 by Sneezyone

[Soror]

14 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

Definitely sounds like a job NO ONE should be working, teens or otherwise. DDs new job is lifeguarding at private pools. She’s making significantly more than the minimum wage and has 10 hour shifts BUT is free to bring food, eat food, and entertain herself while the pool is empty.

yes, it is no wonder that he can't keep people. I guess he thinks he can treat teens like that and it is NBD. If it is dead they should be able to sit down here and there. Ds said he didn't even go to the bathroom all day. They get no discounts either. The guy got onto ds about dumping out some water as he got extra filling something else, he must be an extreme tightwad.

[Pawz4me]

I'd bet good money that his boss is one of those people who claims no one wants to work.

I hope your DS quits ASAP, and goes back to McDonald's or somewhere else that has some respect for their employees.

[ScoutTN]

That is terrible. Many of my kids’ friends work for groceries - which are largely unionized - so breaks etc are in place even for non-union members. 

[Faith-manor]

My state has laws about this stuff. But no one enforces them so employers can and do act like this, especially fast food and often small supermarket owners who have no corporate office dictating rules. Taco Bell near here, locally owned franchise, is particularly bad so they go through employees like water under the bridge. We also have an area corn farmer who gets mad that no one will let their teens work for him detassling corn. Well lets see, 10 hour days, only 10 minutes at lunch, 90 degree July days out in the sun, and he tells the kids they can only have one 16 oz bottle of water which can be refilled after 6 hrs have passed because he does not want to give bathroom breaks. Ambulances have been called for collapsing teens. Parents never sue, but they also do not let their kids go back after they see the condition of their teens at the end of the first day. Local politicians support him because this is a fire at will state, the free market must prevail. So the free market prevails, and he has no employees to abuse because word gets around, and the county commissioners lament on his behalf about the lazy teens in our county and what a worthless generation they are. It is profoundly disgusting!

Soror, I hope your son does well at McDonald's, it is one of the only decent restaurant jobs here because even when locally owned, corporate makes the owners comply with their policies.

[Soror]

18 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

My state has laws about this stuff. But no one enforces them so employers can and do act like this, especially fast food and often small supermarket owners who have no corporate office dictating rules. Taco Bell near here, locally owned franchise, is particularly bad so they go through employees like water under the bridge. We also have an area corn farmer who gets mad that no one will let their teens work for him detassling corn. Well lets see, 10 hour days, only 10 minutes at lunch, 90 degree July days out in the sun, and he tells the kids they can only have one 16 oz bottle of water which can be refilled after 6 hrs have passed because he does not want to give bathroom breaks. Ambulances have been called for collapsing teens. Parents never sue, but they also do not let their kids go back after they see the condition of their teens at the end of the first day. Local politicians support him because this is a fire at will state, the free market must prevail. So the free market prevails, and he has no employees to abuse because word gets around, and the county commissioners lament on his behalf about the lazy teens in our county and what a worthless generation they are. It is profoundly disgusting!

Soror, I hope your son does well at McDonald's, it is one of the only decent restaurant jobs here because even when locally owned, corporate makes the owners comply with their policies.

Wow, what a jack hat!

Ds worked at McDonald's before and although it was busy it was a good job because as you said corporate has good policies. He got regular breaks. Discount on his food and even free food often (not great food to me but he is a teen). Little Caesar's doesn't give any discount. I know many snub their noses at fast food work but I'm proud of him for working hard. There isn't much else listed here for beginning workers. He tried Home Depot but didn't get hired and I don't have any connections that are looking to hire. 

[ieta_cassiopeia]

The policy is outright dangerous, and it is not surprising that boss is having trouble holding onto staff.

[Katy]

Can you remind me (even via PM) what state you live in?

[pinball]

2 hours ago, Soror said:

I knew that things were great but I didn't realize it was this bad.

Ds got a new job this week. His boss told him that he could work him 12 hrs and he'd get no break. Ds worked 6 hrs the last 2 days. He was told he could maybe sit down for 5 minutes. Yesterday, he packed a sandwich and when it was dead asked one of the managers if he could sit down. So, he sat down and scarfed down his sandwich in 5 minutes. Skipped his pb crackers as he didn't want to take any extra time. When the manager got back he lectured ds on not being committed to the job (that pays minimum wage). 

So, I looked into labor laws and even for minors there are no breaks required, not even a lunch break for full shifts.

Evidently it is not even a federal law, although many states have their own laws.

I guess this is some republican BS that lets companies dictate the rules because in a free market they will do the right thing. Except when they don't.

I want to go in and ask the guy if he eats lunch all day? Does he skip food while working? Does he do as he requires his employees? Ds is going back to McDonald's- they pay well for entry level and treat their employees well.

That really is awful.

the last I knew, the majority of states did NOT have state laws regulating lunches and/or breaks for adult workers. Some don’t have for adult but do for minor workers.

and I think OSHA (federal) has a reg requiring access for all employees for immediate (? Can’t remember wording...I’m sure someone will jump in if I’m wrong) access to bathrooms

[pinball]

1 hour ago, Faith-manor said:

My state has laws about this stuff. But no one enforces them so employers can and do act like this, especially fast food and often small supermarket owners who have no corporate office dictating rules. Taco Bell near here, locally owned franchise, is particularly bad so they go through employees like water under the bridge. We also have an area corn farmer who gets mad that no one will let their teens work for him detassling corn. Well lets see, 10 hour days, only 10 minutes at lunch, 90 degree July days out in the sun, and he tells the kids they can only have one 16 oz bottle of water which can be refilled after 6 hrs have passed because he does not want to give bathroom breaks. Ambulances have been called for collapsing teens. Parents never sue, but they also do not let their kids go back after they see the condition of their teens at the end of the first day. Local politicians support him because this is a fire at will state, the free market must prevail. So the free market prevails, and he has no employees to abuse because word gets around, and the county commissioners lament on his behalf about the lazy teens in our county and what a worthless generation they are. It is profoundly disgusting!

Soror, I hope your son does well at McDonald's, it is one of the only decent restaurant jobs here because even when locally owned, corporate makes the owners comply with their policies.

So who is working for this guy?

undocumented workers? That is a huge problem for farm workers. If he is abusing documented teens, I sure as hell hope someone is checking the safety of undocumented workers before someone ends up dead from heatstroke.

[mommyoffive]

Oh wow that is horrible.  I worked low end jobs growing up and was never treated like that.  I hope that he quits soon, that is a horrible environment and dangerous.

[DoraBora]

1 hour ago, Faith-manor said:

My state has laws about this stuff. But no one enforces them so employers can and do act like this, especially fast food and often small supermarket owners who have no corporate office dictating rules. Taco Bell near here, locally owned franchise, is particularly bad so they go through employees like water under the bridge. We also have an area corn farmer who gets mad that no one will let their teens work for him detassling corn. Well lets see, 10 hour days, only 10 minutes at lunch, 90 degree July days out in the sun, and he tells the kids they can only have one 16 oz bottle of water which can be refilled after 6 hrs have passed because he does not want to give bathroom breaks. Ambulances have been called for collapsing teens. Parents never sue, but they also do not let their kids go back after they see the condition of their teens at the end of the first day. Local politicians support him because this is a fire at will state, the free market must prevail. So the free market prevails, and he has no employees to abuse because word gets around, and the county commissioners lament on his behalf about the lazy teens in our county and what a worthless generation they are. It is profoundly disgusting!

Soror, I hope your son does well at McDonald's, it is one of the only decent restaurant jobs here because even when locally owned, corporate makes the owners comply with their policies.

It sounds like the free market has indeed prevailed.  Who harvests this guy's crops?

(And complaining about lazy teens -- well, that's lame and stupid, but it's not sending anyone to the ER.)

 

 

[DoraBora]

OP, I'm sorry this happened to your ds.  I would be so upset.

A free market-ish approach isn't perfect, but it can cut both ways. 

Is this a retail establishment?  People in your community, conservatives included, might be interested in knowing these things.  I would.  There's nothing wrong with publicizing the way this business treats its employees.  Social media posts (sticking to the facts)?  Calling a local consumer reporter? 

[LucyStoner]

Here an unpaid 30 minute meal break is required + a 15 minute paid break every 4 hours.  And I’ve seen people demand it if the boss was trying to circumvent it.  

I don’t understand how anyone would think a 12 hour shift with no breaks would result in quality or productive work.  

I would definitely encourage my son to get another job if his boss was being this stupid.  

 

[Faith-manor]

1 hour ago, pinball said:

So who is working for this guy?

undocumented workers? That is a huge problem for farm workers. If he is abusing documented teens, I sure as hell hope someone is checking the safety of undocumented workers before someone ends up dead from heatstroke.

Pretty much no one except migrant workers. He has been raided once by feds for employing undocumented workers, and it makes my blood boil because he is never shut down, and there are no protections for those workers. Disgusting!

[pinball]

2 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

Pretty much no one except migrant workers. He has been raided once by feds for employing undocumented workers, and it makes my blood boil because he is never shut down, and there are no protections for those workers. Disgusting!

And what came of it?

[Jean in Newcastle]

1 hour ago, LucyStoner said:

Here an unpaid 30 minute meal break is required + a 15 minute paid break every 4 hours.  And I’ve seen people demand it if the boss was trying to circumvent it.  

I don’t understand how anyone would think a 12 hour shift with no breaks would result in quality or productive work.  

I would definitely encourage my son to get another job if his boss was being this stupid.  

 

Same area (as you know). Same experience with rules being followed and expected. 
 

The good thing right now is that in many places there are lots of jobs and types of employers to choose from. 

[Sneezyone]

19 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

Same area (as you know). Same experience with rules being followed and expected. 
 

The good thing right now is that in many places there are lots of jobs and types of employers to choose from. 

Different state but we have a similar experience. DD had her pick of jobs and they were all, pretty much, hire on the spot opportunities.

[HeartString]

2 hours ago, pinball said:

And what came of it?

It’s usually a  tiny “cost of doing business” fine. The workers often get deported, or at least set on that course. It’s a big ole nothing burger that impacts the workers more than the employers. 

[mom2scouts]

My DS has a STEM degree, but has been working a job that is so terrible that every member of the family has been begging him to quit. We told him we'd rather have him move home than continue to be abused (he was actually beat up in the parking lot by strangers while the security guard did nothing) for very low wages. A sibling offered to pay him the same amount to be a nanny just to get him out of that job.  No breaks, no lunch, horrible hours, drunk boss, and no promised bonus, theft of property...at one of their other facilities the entire staff walked off the job. Tomorrow is his last day and, thankfully, he just got offered a great job with a big company whose employees stay on the job for decades.

Jobs for teens are so plentiful right now, nobody has to put up with that kind of treatment. I'd encourage your ds to move on and tell the boss exactly why.

[pinball]

14 minutes ago, HeartString said:

It’s usually a  tiny “cost of doing business” fine. The workers often get deported, or at least set on that course. It’s a big ole nothing burger that impacts the workers more than the employers. 

Thanks. I know about generalities but wanted to know what happened specifically in this case

[Sneezyone]

16 minutes ago, mom2scouts said:

My DS has a STEM degree, but has been working a job that is so terrible that every member of the family has been begging him to quit. We told him we'd rather have him move home than continue to be abused (he was actually beat up in the parking lot by strangers while the security guard did nothing) for very low wages. A sibling offered to pay him the same amount to be a nanny just to get him out of that job.  No breaks, no lunch, horrible hours, drunk boss, and no promised bonus, theft of property...at one of their other facilities the entire staff walked off the job. Tomorrow is his last day and, thankfully, he just got offered a great job with a big company whose employees stay on the job for decades.

Jobs for teens are so plentiful right now, nobody has to put up with that kind of treatment. I'd encourage your ds to move on and tell the boss exactly why.

DHs most successful officer recruit was this way. He was languishing in a dead end job at Home Depot. I know the military isn’t for everyone but nuke school, GI Bill and four years of service gave that kid an immediate boost into the middle class.

[pinball]

5 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

DHs most successful officer recruit was this way. He was languishing in a dead end job at Home Depot. I know the military isn’t for everyone but nuke school, GI Bill and four years of service gave that kid an immediate boost into the middle class.

Except that active duty obligation for enlisted nukes is usually six years

[Sneezyone]

2 minutes ago, pinball said:

Except that active duty obligation for enlisted nukes is usually six years

Ok, and? The way I recall it (DH knows more than I) it was four years post training for officers. This kid had a degree.

Edited June 10, 2021 by Sneezyone

[pinball]

1 minute ago, Sneezyone said:

Ok, and?

Yeah?

 

[Sneezyone]

1 minute ago, pinball said:

Yeah?

 

Blocked. ✌🏽

[Faith-manor]

2 hours ago, pinball said:

And what came of it?

Small fines. It is so common here, that it is almost like no one cares except to put on a show with a quick raid. There are several farms.who do this. Only one.ever made th national news, a huge dairy farm about twenty miles away. They did get a bigger fine, but not enough to really make a difference. Sigh.

I really dislike the animus against undocumented workers because it makes lawmakers loathe to do anything about worker protections which I consider basic civil rights.

[pinball]

4 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

Small fines. It is so common here, that it is almost like no one cares except to put on a show with a quick raid. There are several farms.who do this. Only one.ever made th national news, a huge dairy farm about twenty miles away. They did get a bigger fine, but not enough to really make a difference. Sigh.

I really dislike the animus against undocumented workers because it makes lawmakers loathe to do anything about worker protections which I consider basic civil rights.

That’s too bad it was only small fines.

[Selkie]

Is it a restaurant? I was thinking back to the restaurant jobs I had as a high school and college kid and realized we never got breaks. There were slow times where the employees would stand around and talk, but never actual breaks where we would sit down or eat. This was for 6-8 hour shifts, not 12. Very liberal state. Granted, this was 30+ years ago. I have no idea what the laws were then or are now.

[Soror]

Ds has an interview with McD's today. I told him if they hire him back he needs to verify when they can get him back to work. I also told him I didn't expect him to give his current boss 2 weeks. I told him he should just stay here until McD's can get him back at work and tell his boss today when his last day will be. Considering he is such a tool I feel like that is rather generous. He can keep looking for any other job that he might like better while working at McD's (it was hard work but he never complained and was mad when we made him quit). There are a few entry level jobs that pay more around here (like the Home Depot job- which he tried for twice and didn't get), he wouldn't mind working at a place less busy and hot too but he won't likely be able to knock off all of the things on his list. 

I'm certain his boss doesn't go the whole day without eating at least a snack or stopping for a moment. He had told ds that he could sit down for 5 minutes some time but then got onto him for doing it (eating a sandwich while he did). It is shit. Ds is a hard worker, like I said he told me he didn't even go to the bathroom because he didn't want to get in trouble. I told him he goes when he needs to go. Screw the guy. If he wants to fire him for that so be it. 

Edited June 11, 2021 by Soror

[chiguirre]

20 hours ago, Sneezyone said:

Ok, and? The way I recall it (DH knows more than I) it was four years post training for officers. This kid had a degree.

 

20 hours ago, pinball said:

Except that active duty obligation for enlisted nukes is usually six years

I spent the last year enmeshed in the nitty gritty of picking a rate. Nukes have six year enlistments with two years of school (so you're on land in a barracks with fairly generous liberty). They serve four years after their A school but they have the worst hours and poor working conditions for those 4 years. They get a $38,000 bonus. To pick the rate you generally need to top the 90th percentile on the ASVAB/PiCAT. Dd got several Nuke recruiting pitches and spent a day considering it and reading the sub reddit. In the end, she decided IT was a much better gig.