Church, covid, masks ☹️ update

[happi duck]

1 hour ago, Faith-manor said:

Color me not shocked. I have a few covid reasonable churches in the area that I allow to call me if they need a substitute pianist on Sunday. Got the call today. Y'all there was a meltdown!

Apparently, the wife of one of the pastors has been very vocal about not getting vaccinated and encouraging others not to do so which I am guessing has been a source of distress in the church, but I don't know only guessing from the accusations made during the yelling which was way too close to me for my comfort because the piano is close the administrative side exits to the hallway/narthex. Well, she showed up today with no mask though the church has not dropped its mask mandate - no mask, no entry. Oh my goodness, it was banana pants out there, just epic yelling, name calling, some folks wanting the pastor fired because of his wife!

Sigh, I slipped out the other side and thankfully my check had been left on the piano so I did not need to speak to anyone. I immediately fired off an email to the senior pastor saying I could no longer be on their sub list. Life is too short to get up on Sunday, leave my family, and have that drama. I am fully vaxed but chose to wear a mask at the piano anyway since that was the sign on the door and I would rather just role model being sensitive to others. 

That pastor's wife sings on worship team every other week, and well, I would imagine from here on out that is going to be controversial. The $100 fee that I charge just isn't worth the possibility of being close to that drama. I really hope they did not have a bunch of visitors because first impressions are a thing, and this was a bad one.

Ugh.

This is an example of how the CDC announcement was as terrible thing.  This woman is not vaccinated and was wanting entry to a place that has every right to require masks.  She actually thought that she didn't need to mask!

I've seen news stories phrase stuff like "Store XYZ has dropped its mask mandate" without specifying *for fully vaccinated people*!

I think it's coming off like no masks for everyone.

[busymama7]

So it turns out I was overly worried for not much cause. The vast majority of people were still masked today and the ones who weren't I pretty much already knew they have been vaccinated.  Some that I know are not were still masked. Not much of a big deal at all.  One of the children's leaders was not in the big meeting but was when in the children's meeting which I thought was thoughtful.   There were also a few people who I'm pretty sure were vaccinated but had their masks on.  Word on the street is that our state is removing the mandate on June 1st.  That could change everything as far as if I'm comfortable being at church. It would be very difficult to return to staying home ☹️

 

[kbutton]

22 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

It really is! And this church does a LOT of good things for the community, food pantry clothing pantry, utility assistance, pay for licensed therapy and counseling for abuse victims, and after school tutoring now that all the tutors are vaccinated. To think of all of that coming to an end because of this kind of thing is gut wrenching! I am not a Christian anymore, but I sure do believe in all the good they are doing. But the drama really upset me, and Dh attended with me today which is only does off and on when I substitute, and it was never closer to where he was. So he doesn't want to go back for a while. He does think I should just go off the list for now, but then give them a chance to sort things out, and maybe sub for them in the fall. They really do some wonderful work in the community.

I think it's awful that this woman brought the battle to church rather than the church handling it proactively ahead of time--they knew this was possible. That's terrible.

OTOH, they had a policy, and they stuck to it. Our church has a protective Covid policy and ignores it. I would've thought the confrontation was terrible and out of place, but I would've appreciated that someone, anyone, cared to make and enforce a policy that was good for the community. I would be more likely to continue to attend a church that took a side and just hope that the leadership could work it out.

Our church staked out a middle road and should've known it would not stay a middle road, and then they let it just play out as if they are impartial. I hear that they have offended both the cautious and the not cautious, and those that remain are the less vocal of both groups with a heavy lean toward non-maskers (and they got political).

[pinball]

4 minutes ago, busymama7 said:

So it turns out I was overly worried for not much cause. The vast majority of people were still masked today and the ones who weren't I pretty much already knew they have been vaccinated.  Some that I know are not were still masked. Not much of a big deal at all.  One of the children's leaders was not in the big meeting but was when in the children's meeting which I thought was thoughtful.   There were also a few people who I'm pretty sure were vaccinated but had their masks on.  Word on the street is that our state is removing the mandate on June 1st.  That could change everything as far as if I'm comfortable being at church. It would be very difficult to return to staying home ☹️

 

I am so happy for you!!

[KSera]

I think it would’ve been helpful if the CDC had given more heads up that this was a change that was coming, rather than just instantly implementing it. Our church just started having an in person service again, and decided to keep the masking requirement in place for now until they figure it out. Seems like it would have gone further to the goal of encouraging people to be vaccinated if they said that starting June 30 or something, that anyone who is fully vaccinated could stop wearing a mask. I think by that point, even 12 to 15-year-olds would have a chance to be all done with their series.

Edited May 16, 2021 by KSera

[Junie]

32 minutes ago, KSera said:

I think it would’ve been helpful if the CDC had given more heads up that this was a change that was coming, rather than just instantly implementing it. Our church just started having an in person service again, and decided to keep the masking requirement in place for now until they figure it out. Seems like it would have gone further to the goal of encouraging people to be vaccinated if they said that starting June 30 or something, that anyone who is fully vaccinated could stop wearing a mask. I think by that point, even 12 to 15-year-olds would have a chance to be all done with their series.

This!  Exactly!

[Faith-manor]

1 hour ago, kbutton said:

I think it's awful that this woman brought the battle to church rather than the church handling it proactively ahead of time--they knew this was possible. That's terrible.

OTOH, they had a policy, and they stuck to it. Our church has a protective Covid policy and ignores it. I would've thought the confrontation was terrible and out of place, but I would've appreciated that someone, anyone, cared to make and enforce a policy that was good for the community. I would be more likely to continue to attend a church that took a side and just hope that the leadership could work it out.

Our church staked out a middle road and should've known it would not stay a middle road, and then they let it just play out as if they are impartial. I hear that they have offended both the cautious and the not cautious, and those that remain are the less vocal of both groups with a heavy lean toward non-maskers (and they got political).

You are right, and though the way it was handled was a bit wild...I think everyone should have gone outdoors to a far corner of the lawn and talked rationally, said what needed to be said, I am glad that there was a stance made. You are right about that, and definitely, maybe I can just contact the lead pastor have a talk, and see if it wss taken care of in a way that will make me feel comfortable going back on the sub list. I do very much believe in the good work they do in the community.

[ktgrok]

8 hours ago, HeartString said:

I agree with that actually.  Having Long Covid means you should have immunity from your original infection.  Unless long covid messes with that immune response somehow. 

I figure, in my own mind, for my own thinking, that if J&J with its 60-70% efficacy counts as "fully vaxed" than natural immunity should count too.  Natural immunity probably  isn't as robust or as good at fighting variants as the MRNA vaccines seem to be, but that description sounds exactly like how I would describe J&J.  Denying that natural immunity exists just isn't "following the science". 

Agreed. I know for certain things, an antibody titer is considered acceptable in waiver of vaccine. Having an antibody card that is date within the last 6 months seems like it would serve the same purpose as a vaccine card. 

I REALLY wish someone had thought all this out before just spouting off stuff!!!!  

Like, yes, lets have vaccine passports, but make them voluntary. You can opt out. Or whatever, but you'd have official proof. Then businesses can decide. And have official antibody cards or passports as well. Plus, then we'd have a very accurate count of what percentage of the population is immune! It would encourage those that "think" they had covid to get tested for antibodies, give us more data, etc etc. 

[HeartString]

1 hour ago, ktgrok said:

Agreed. I know for certain things, an antibody titer is considered acceptable in waiver of vaccine. Having an antibody card that is date within the last 6 months seems like it would serve the same purpose as a vaccine card. 

I REALLY wish someone had thought all this out before just spouting off stuff!!!!  

Like, yes, lets have vaccine passports, but make them voluntary. You can opt out. Or whatever, but you'd have official proof. Then businesses can decide. And have official antibody cards or passports as well. Plus, then we'd have a very accurate count of what percentage of the population is immune! It would encourage those that "think" they had covid to get tested for antibodies, give us more data, etc etc. 

The only place I’ve heard of trying the vaccine passport is NYC, for indoor entertainment venues.  You can be vaxed or have a negative test. It’s voluntary in that no one HAS to go to a comedy club.  

[busymama7]

I take it back. Almost no one is masking anymore. Including plenty of people I know for SURE are not vaccinated and then quite a few more who I suspect aren't but don't know for sure.   I honestly am over wearing masks(although I was an early masker way before mandates) and am tired of masking my kids too.  Technically my two youngest don't have to but it has seemed best to just be consistent so they have.   I'm sitting here waiting for Sunday school to start and feeling alone and want to go home.   I don't want to feel judgemental but I admit I am feeling it. I can't take mine off because I'm feel like that is lying but all these other people around me (IN CHURCH) just don't see it that way I suppose.   And I feel conspicuous too.  Many people know why I haven't gotten it but it still feels awkward.  Sigh.  I'm really starting to dread church, but I believe I have obligations to be there as per beliefs.  

[rebcoola]

I'm sorry my church went to masks optional even though our mask mandate is still in place just changed to match CDC guidelines.  I am basically done but DH is not.  

[busymama7]

4 minutes ago, rebcoola said:

I'm sorry my church went to masks optional even though our mask mandate is still in place just changed to match CDC guidelines.  I am basically done but DH is not.  

Our state mandate is still in place. The church has instructed to follow it, allowing for vaxed individuals to not mask.   Not going to church isn't an option nor what I want to do anyways.  Honestly I want the mandate to change so I can remove our masks and move on.   I am not a denier by any means but just done with masks.  And then I wouldn't have to check my judgemental feelings for those around me 😜

[Catwoman]

45 minutes ago, busymama7 said:

Our state mandate is still in place. The church has instructed to follow it, allowing for vaxed individuals to not mask.   Not going to church isn't an option nor what I want to do anyways.  Honestly I want the mandate to change so I can remove our masks and move on.   I am not a denier by any means but just done with masks.  And then I wouldn't have to check my judgemental feelings for those around me 😜

I'm sure you have already mentioned this somewhere, but I can't remember -- is your family vaccinated?

 

Edited to add:  OOPS! It was right there in your OP! I started reading this thread when you first posted it, and I forgot the details. Sorry to have been so clueless!!!

Edited June 6, 2021 by Catwoman

[busymama7]

Just now, Catwoman said:

I'm sure you have already mentioned this somewhere, but I can't remember -- is your family vaccinated?

My husband is. I have long covid (although the last two weeks have seen good improvement) and am waiting for myself due to fear of getting worse. Some get better some get worse and some see no change. I was so bad at the time our state opened to my age group I couldn't even process where I would be if I got worse.  My young adults are (but they go to church where they live) and I have two teens who are not yet.  3 under 12 who aren't eligible.  

[prairiewindmomma]

—-

Edited June 6, 2021 by prairiewindmomma

[kokotg]

Our church has gone to masks optional for outside services but still mandatory for everyone for inside. They have one of each kind of service Sunday mornings. I'm happy with this; it's cautious, respectful of people who are immuno-compromised or have kids who can't be vaccinated yet or whatever, but still provides an option for people who don't want to wear a mask. 

[Harriet Vane]

Our church dropped all mask requirements. I'm deeply uncomfortable with this--I would have liked to see a higher percentage of the population vaccinated and children eligible for the vaccine before opening up like this. Our county is rated as "high risk" right now. I'm pretty sure I was the only person in the entire building who was masked this morning.

[happi duck]

Our church is still Zoom only and figuring out how to fully open without abandoning people who can't attend in person yet.

I can tell some are impatient and sharing "we're the only church not back".  That actually isn't true but every church that opens up creates a little more peer pressure of sorts.

I work with kids and hope we keep at least masks for the unvaccinated.

I live in a densely populated county with still hundreds of new cases a day.  I think it's important to not drop the ball.

[Martha in GA]

3 hours ago, busymama7 said:

Honestly I want the mandate to change so I can remove our masks and move on.   I am not a denier by any means but just done with masks.  And then I wouldn't have to check my judgemental feelings for those around me 😜

I'm with the others who would say you have natural immunity now that you've had COVID and I think you should feel free to unmask. I don't remember your whole story -- did anyone else in your family have COVID? I honestly feel natural COVID is as good or better than the vaccine. And, if you are tired of masks, maybe those who are unvaxxed are just as tired of masks and are ready to move on as well. I think we've lost sight of the fact that only those who are infected with the virus can spread the virus...

[rebcoola]

3 hours ago, busymama7 said:

Our state mandate is still in place. The church has instructed to follow it, allowing for vaxed individuals to not mask.   Not going to church isn't an option nor what I want to do anyways.  Honestly I want the mandate to change so I can remove our masks and move on.   I am not a denier by any means but just done with masks.  And then I wouldn't have to check my judgemental feelings for those around me 😜

It's not even the masks. I just can't handle the hypocrisy they sent out lengthy letters in the beginning about following the mandates unless they are asking us to sin.  Than back tracking by saying basically anything but full Sunday service in person with singing and communion is a sin.  To now I don't even know because I am to even ask anymore.  

 

Edited June 6, 2021 by rebcoola

[ktgrok]

21 minutes ago, Martha in GA said:

I'm with the others who would say you have natural immunity now that you've had COVID and I think you should feel free to unmask.

Agree. I REALLY think that those who have had a positive test or positive antibody test should be included in the same category as vaccinated, at this point. I'd prefer antibodies be checked every 6 months or so personally, but for the most part, I'm cool with it. And I'm pretty judgey about all this, lol. 

[ktgrok]

Our church went to masks only for the unvaccinated, but I don't know how much I trust that. AND they are opening up sunday school and nursery saying that the volunteers/teachers will be vaccinated, but said nothing about kids having to wear masks. 

[busymama7]

45 minutes ago, Martha in GA said:

I'm with the others who would say you have natural immunity now that you've had COVID and I think you should feel free to unmask. I don't remember your whole story -- did anyone else in your family have COVID? I honestly feel natural COVID is as good or better than the vaccine. And, if you are tired of masks, maybe those who are unvaxxed are just as tired of masks and are ready to move on as well. I think we've lost sight of the fact that only those who are infected with the virus can spread the virus...

Sure for me.  But I have kids older than 9 and not eligible for vaccines(or old enough for but haven't received it) yet that the mandate still applies to.   Myself and my youngest were in the only ones living at home that got it.  Despite sharing a room with the contagious visiting older sibling.  My husband didn't get it from me either(confirmed with 2 PCR tests)

Im not wearing a mask because I feel it's protecting myself or others.  I'm wearing it to obey the law.   

[Ditto]

Our church is now making masks optional for those fully vaccinated.   This fits with the state guidelines.  

[KSera]

7 hours ago, Martha in GA said:

I think we've lost sight of the fact that only those who are infected with the virus can spread the virus...

I don’t know anyone who has lost sight of that. That’s the very reason for having people who can still be infected with the virus mask so they don’t spread it. 

[73349]

Just a heads up that I had a negative antibody test during long Covid. Vaccination does not appear to have affected me either way, but since my infection was from March 2020, regardless of whether the antibody test was accurate, it's unlikely that I was still protected by the time I had access to the vaccine.

I'm still masking indoors (along with many other vaccinated people around here) almost all the time, because...

• I have a kid who is not fully vaxed yet;
• Having it once has left me evidently permanently needing $50/month in prescriptions to walk and breathe at the same time, and I'm not too keen on further risk-taking (this was considered a "mild" case because I was not hospitalized);
• Variants are a potential problem for everybody, and as Milne said, "You never have them until you're having them";
• I don't trust strangers to wear masks if unvaxed if nobody's checking;
• If everybody masks, there's a higher degree of protection for people who are too young for the vaccines,those whose bodies didn't necessarily do a great job responding to the vaccine, and those for whom infection could be catastrophic.

My church is carefully reopening this month, with sign-ups for attending (max 1/6 capacity), masks still required, no singing, and still offering the livestream (with the intent to do so perpetually) for anybody who's attending remotely.

Statistical analysis suggests that my state could save a thousand lives by the end of this calendar year if people continue masking at a high rate.

[ericathemom]

Ugh, our church just announced that all events, including all kid events are now mask optional (which at this church translates to no masks). No mention of vaccines. Also, most events are now moving indoors. I also found at least 1 family at the same church had Covid less than 2 weeks ago. 

And my 11yo was so looking forward to a summer of making friends.

[kbutton]

12 hours ago, ericathemom said:

I also found at least 1 family at the same church had Covid less than 2 weeks ago. 

Not church, but our son took a seasonal job once vaccinated. They had high ceilings in the building, masking, and he would be outside some of the time with good ventilation inside. Anyway, they moved to mask optional when the state mandate expired at the beginning of the month. He said it's mostly only teens still masking, and one of those masking just recovered from Covid. Her whole family had it...she also lives around the corner from us. Her parents are getting vaccinated, but the kids aren't allowed because the parents are afraid of fertility issues.