Once again, my youngest child - who is 16 - is left out

[Carol in Cal.]

6 minutes ago, Bootsie said:

See, this is so regionally and culturally based.  Where I am from, the "traditional" reception would be the first one and it would be "complete" because EVERYONE was included.  

But, yes, it makes much more sense to have two events with anyone invited to a specific event fully included in that event.

What I meant by complete was, ‘with all the rituals thereof’.  Meaning, the first dance, the Daddy/daughter dance, the toasts, the prayer, the full meal (that’s my tradition, not everyone’s), the cutting of the cake, the bouquet and barter toss.  The music in general.  Whereas the cake and punch in the church basement were basically like a coffee hour.

[Bootsie]

Almost two decades ago, someone in DH's family got married.  DH was invited to the wedding along with our two children (who were about 4 and 7 at the time); I was not invited--I was not included because I was not "famlly"--and a line had to be drawn somewhere.

DH ended up going and taking the children.  I took a mini-vacation for the weekend and visited a friend (and had a much better time than I would have had at the wedding). I was very upset at the time and knew that it was the bride's mother trying to cause problems.  I was not keen on DH taking the kids, but also knew it was a rare opportunity for them to meet some of their relatives--and I did not want to deny them of that opportunity.  Now, DH (and others in the family) see much more clearly what was occurring.  

[Bootsie]

1 minute ago, Carol in Cal. said:

What I meant by complete was, ‘with all the rituals thereof’.  Meaning, the first dance, the Daddy/daughter dance, the toasts, the prayer, the full meal (that’s my tradition, not everyone’s), the cutting of the cake, the bouquet and barter toss.  The music in general.  Whereas the cake and punch in the church basement were basically like a coffee hour.

The rituals are so different from place to place.  I have been to more weddings where there was NO first dance, no daddy/daughter dance, no toast, no full meal. than where those things were included.  The traditions where I am from would include:  a receiving line to greet guests, cutting of the cake, the bouquet and garter toss, the bride changing into a "going away" outfit, throwing of rice, and a decorated get-away car.   I have only been to one wedding in my life that there was a served, full meal with toasts, etc.  I have been to some weddings where there were full buffets.  

[kristin0713]

1 hour ago, SKL said:

When I was 16, this happened with a cousin's wedding.  My older brothers "and guests" were invited.  My mom decided I would be my single brother's "guest." 

I think this is a GREAT idea. If my family were in this situation, DH would call his brother and say 16yo child is coming as adult child's guest. Unless of course your adult child has a significant other that they are bringing. 

I didn't want little kids at my wedding so I completely understand that.  We did let nursing newborns come and my cousins who were teens and up. There were no families that we split up unless they had littles.  

[Carol in Cal.]

7 minutes ago, Bootsie said:

The rituals are so different from place to place.  I have been to more weddings where there was NO first dance, no daddy/daughter dance, no toast, no full meal. than where those things were included.  The traditions where I am from would include:  a receiving line to greet guests, cutting of the cake, the bouquet and garter toss, the bride changing into a "going away" outfit, throwing of rice, and a decorated get-away car.   I have only been to one wedding in my life that there was a served, full meal with toasts, etc.  I have been to some weddings where there were full buffets.  

The receiving line I should have included—those are always done.  I see a full buffet and a full plated meal as equivalent, although I think of a nice plated meal as more formal and generous, and was pleasantly surprised to find out that it is also less expensive.  Going away outfits, rice throwing (bread crumbs now though) and the decorated car are sometimes observed here.  The decorated car is controversial because it can really ruin a car—like a shiveree it is kind of falling into disuse.  I did have a going away suit but it was awkward to leave and change, since we were just going upstairs to our suite in the hotel where we had the reception, so I didn’t end up using it.

[DoraBora]

So you and your dh are invited, and your older two kids (one of whom is on her own) are invited, but you're supposed to leave your youngest at home?  Am I understanding that correctly? 

Edited February 7, 2021 by DoraBora
weird quoting

[Carol in Cal.]

6 minutes ago, kristin0713 said:

I think this is a GREAT idea. If my family were in this situation, DH would call his brother and say 16yo child is coming as adult child's guest. Unless of course your adult child has a significant other that they are bringing. 

I didn't want little kids at my wedding so I completely understand that.  We did let nursing newborns come and my cousins who were teens and up. There were no families that we split up unless they had littles.  

It can be pretty weird, though.  A single mother I worked with brought her barely 14 yo daughter as her ‘guest’, which was not really in the spirit of the invitation at all, and the daughter genteelly caught the bouquet, and had to slow dance with the colleague of my husband’s who won the floor fight for the garter, and that was painfully awkward.  I wish I had gotten to the DJ to prevent the call for that dance, and just do the picture and call it good.

[Kassia]

34 minutes ago, Bootsie said:

Almost two decades ago, someone in DH's family got married.  DH was invited to the wedding along with our two children (who were about 4 and 7 at the time); I was not invited--I was not included because I was not "famlly"--and a line had to be drawn somewhere.

 

That's awful!

[gardenmom5]

59 minutes ago, Quill said:

IMO, it is not a slippery slope. There is no reason, for example, why you have to invite your second-cousin’s 2 yo twins because you invited your16yo first cousin. Also, who hassles the family to make exceptions? I’m not even hassling this bride and I do think they should have made the exception. 

 

I'm not saying you would personally hassle someone about it  - but I personally know people who would.  (and there could well be people in your's or the groom's extended family - who would).   "no, you can't" just isn't in their vocabulary.   (one person in particular whose personal motto was 'it's easier to ask forgiveness than permission'.)

is your 16 yo son the only first cousin - ON BOTH SIDES - who is not invited?   are there other first cousins who aren't invited?  what about on the groom's side?  are there first cousins on his side who aren't coming?   Generally these flat cut-offs are meant to work on both sides, not one.  the brides and the grooms.  so, it's not just your family, but the groom's family who is dealing with a 18yo cut-off.

if your son is the ONLY first cousin on BOTH SIDES who wasn't invited (I've not seen that subject addressed previously), I can sympathize with your annoyance.   It would have been very easy to make the cut-off first cousins - unless there are second cousins who are 18+ and are invited.

 

 

 

[Farrar]

I'm curious if the goalposts have been moving as time goes on? Like, you said this has happened four times now. Does that imply that previous times, the age cutoff was lower so that your older two attended weddings when they were 16 or 17, but as the cousin group ages, so do the age cutoffs?

In any case, it's not personal, it's cultural, it's their wedding, do not raise a stink, yada yada yada, but I'd also be really annoyed.

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, DoraBora said:

So you and your dh are invited, and your older two kids (one of whom is on her own) are invited, but you're supposed to leave your youngest at home?  Am I understanding that correctly? 

Yep. That’s the assumption. 

[Shoeless]

Slight tangent here, but I really hate the attitude of "It's the bride's special day!!!!", so everyone has to grin and bear whatever irrational thing she wants.  The groom's opinion should matter, too. It should be the couple's special day, not just all about the bride.

[Guest]

32 minutes ago, Farrar said:

I'm curious if the goalposts have been moving as time goes on? Like, you said this has happened four times now. Does that imply that previous times, the age cutoff was lower so that your older two attended weddings when they were 16 or 17, but as the cousin group ages, so do the age cutoffs?

In any case, it's not personal, it's cultural, it's their wedding, do not raise a stink, yada yada yada, but I'd also be really annoyed.

 

No, goalposts have not moved, but I was trying to stay out of the weedy details. So, it was like this:

First older cousin in that family unit got married, dd was the only one just a bit over 18 and both boys were under 18. The boys were not invited, only dd was.* In that instance, she was at college so I just declined like that, “She’s at college; it will just be me and dh.” 

Cousin from a different family unit then got married. In that case, I don’t remember if middle ds was 18 yet or not but younger ds was still excluded, dd was invited. I declined everyone but myself and dh. I think dd was in France the first time then, so it was simple. 

Second older cousin from the first family unit got married; by that point middle ds was 18. Dd was invited, ds was invited. Youngest was not. But dd was in France, so she couldn’t attend anyway. In that case older ds did go but younger was not invited so he stayed over a friend’s house. 

Intermingled in there, there have also been three weddings where no first cousins were excluded, whatever their age, but in some cases, the SIL/BILs did not want to bring their kids so they did not come. All of my kids attended. 

* In the very first instance, it was a little bit more understandable because that was around five years ago and so there were more cousins who were under 18 and some were pretty young. I think it was around 12 additional “heads” if every first cousin came. So, although it bothered me even then, I understood it better because the line was murkier and it’s a crap-ton of boy cousins. IMO, though, each wedding should be considered on it’s own and if they really did the math on it, it’s really not a big deal. 

Lastly, in this case, the venue is a family-owned property, so additional “heads” are really quite easy to toss in there. Adding in the probability that some of my SILs/BILs would probably not bring their teens even if they were invited, it would quite likely be just my younger ds additional. 🤷🏻‍♀️

[Bootsie]

29 minutes ago, MissLemon said:

Slight tangent here, but I really hate the attitude of "It's the bride's special day!!!!", so everyone has to grin and bear whatever irrational thing she wants.  The groom's opinion should matter, too. It should be the couple's special day, not just all about the bride.

For the crazy wedding I posted about above, DD, who was a bridesmaid, tried to gently suggest to the bride that she consider how other people were being impacted by her demands.  The bride replied with the "But it's my special day!  And, I am the last grandchild in the family to get married...." DD said, "Well isn't it really Brad's day, too" and said the bride gave her a bewildered, puzzled look and replied, "Well not really."  ? 🙄

DD came close to backing out of being a bridesmaid.  It was her first friend to get married and she didn't know what was normal.  In the past year she has politely declined to additional invitations to be a bridesmaid, partly because of the ghastly experience.

 

[DoraBora]

50 minutes ago, Quill said:

Yep. That’s the assumption. 

So, if my entire little family, apart from my one youngest son, was invited, well YES, I JAWY.  I would be beside myself!

However, I would at least try to contact the bride to explain my feelings (probably breaking all of the "rules" in the process).  I simply cannot imagine a single reason your son would be left out, apart from the bride thoughtlessly following the precedent set by her siblings. 

If she remained firm about excluding my boy, I wouldn't attend either.  I wouldn't make a scene, and I'd send a nice gift and a card, but I wouldn't go.  My dh would probably agree with me, but if he wanted to attend without me, fine.  (That's a lie.  It wouldn't be fine, but I can't control him.)

Honestly, I'd probably attempt to persuade older dd, who doesn't live with me, not to attend either, in solidarity with her brother.  Yep.  I'd absolutely do that.

Edited February 7, 2021 by DoraBora
high emotion affects spelling

[Scarlett]

3 hours ago, SKL said:

But if her older sibs did this, then it's understandable that she would do it too.  It certainly is not personal against your son.

When I attended that adult wedding at 16, I was the 3rd of 6 kids, with the younger ones being 14, 7, and 3.  I think it's reasonable to draw a line, and being arbitrary is better than being personal about it IMO.  It's also reasonable to invite everyone (forgetting Covid for the moment), but not all families do that, and I think that's OK.

I don’t think Quill is saying she thinks it is personal.  I think she is saying it is horrible and she hates it.  

[gardenmom5]

1 hour ago, MissLemon said:

Slight tangent here, but I really hate the attitude of "It's the bride's special day!!!!", so everyone has to grin and bear whatever irrational thing she wants.  The groom's opinion should matter, too. It should be the couple's special day, not just all about the bride.

This.

 

53 minutes ago, Quill said:

No, goalposts have not moved, 

 

what about in the groom's family?

what one cousin does has no bearing on what another cousin does.

dh has three nieces (sisters) who chose to get married out of state to prevent ONE PERSON from coming to their weddings -  it was too close a connection to exclude any other way. (which also meant only their parents and siblings attended) their brother was fine allowing 'that person' to attend his wedding, as was 2dd.  (1dd has vowed to elope when she get's married.)

This does not include the niece (different family) who eloped and only told her mother a month later.  

Edited February 7, 2021 by gardenmom5

[marbel]

1 hour ago, MissLemon said:

Slight tangent here, but I really hate the attitude of "It's the bride's special day!!!!", so everyone has to grin and bear whatever irrational thing she wants.  The groom's opinion should matter, too. It should be the couple's special day, not just all about the bride.

I agree but you know what strikes me funny?  So often it seems that it's really about being the bride's mother's special day, sometimes to the dismay of the bride herself (and the groom).  

[Scarlett]

3 hours ago, Bootsie said:

Almost two decades ago, someone in DH's family got married.  DH was invited to the wedding along with our two children (who were about 4 and 7 at the time); I was not invited--I was not included because I was not "famlly"--and a line had to be drawn somewhere.

DH ended up going and taking the children.  I took a mini-vacation for the weekend and visited a friend (and had a much better time than I would have had at the wedding). I was very upset at the time and knew that it was the bride's mother trying to cause problems.  I was not keen on DH taking the kids, but also knew it was a rare opportunity for them to meet some of their relatives--and I did not want to deny them of that opportunity.  Now, DH (and others in the family) see much more clearly what was occurring.  

That is horrifying.

[Melissa in Australia]

I am not invited to my brother's wedding in April, he is tryi g to limit it to under 90 people. I have 7 children, most of them have partners. By not inviting me or any of my children he has 14 less in his count.  He us so stressed out with all the planni g etc, as here in Australia it only takes a few coronavirus cases to completly shut down everything. 

I am not upset in the slightest. A line has to be drawn somewhere. 

 

Dd and I are struggling to plan her wedding. With just immediate family, it is up to 32.withmy siblings and families it willbe 98.

Who knows what will happen with coronavirus by August/September . We very well may be I. Lockdown by then and only allowed 5. Which would mean I wouldn't be able to go. Which would be painful. 

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

This.

 

what about in the groom's family?

what one cousin does has no bearing on what another cousin does.

dh has three nieces (sisters) who chose to get married out of state to prevent ONE PERSON from coming to their weddings -  it was too close a connection to exclude any other way. (which also meant only their parents and siblings attended) their brother was fine allowing 'that person' to attend his wedding, as was 2dd.  (1dd has vowed to elope when she get's married.)

This does not include the niece (different family) who eloped and only told her mother a month later.  

What about in the groom’s family? 

Three of the four cousins who have done it this way all have the same parents, so yes it does have bearing on what another cousin does. It is apparently what their family views as the solution: hard age line, keep it the same for all their kids’ weddings, whomever it leaves off - oh well. 

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, marbel said:

I agree but you know what strikes me funny?  So often it seems that it's really about being the bride's mother's special day, sometimes to the dismay of the bride herself (and the groom).  

You mean like, if she wears a backless dress that some people think is too sexy? 😄

BTW, I think this is the dress I am going to wear for my dd’s wedding:  

https://www.jjshouse.com/Sheath-Column-Scoop-Neck-Knee-Length-Satin-Lace-Mother-Of-The-Bride-Dress-With-Sequins-008217310-g217310

[SKL]

16 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

I don’t think Quill is saying she thinks it is personal.  I think she is saying it is horrible and she hates it.  

OK but it would become personal if the bride decided to include just Quill's ds16 when there are others close in age/proximity who are excluded.

So OK, then she invites all the 16yo cousins, and then someone who has a 14/15yo gets mad.

At some point it has to be arbitrary.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Melissa in Australia said:

Who knows what will happen with coronavirus by August/September . We very well may be I. Lockdown by then and only allowed 5. Which would mean I wouldn't be able to go. Which would be painful. 

I sure hope that isn’t the case, on either of our sides of the world. I am sorry but I have lost track of where your country is on vaccines or getting the pandemic under thumb. 

I’m a hopeless optimist, I know, but I expect myself/my whole extended family will be fully vaccinated by then, other than those who will not accept the vax. 

[DoraBora]

6 minutes ago, Quill said:

What about in the groom’s family? 

Three of the four cousins who have done it this way all have the same parents, so yes it does have bearing on what another cousin does. It is apparently what their family views as the solution: hard age line, keep it the same for all their kids’ weddings, whomever it leaves off - oh well. 

I just wonder whether your dh's brother realizes (or whether the bride realizes) what this means for your particular family.  I think this bride will one day be mortified that she left out a single member of one family who missed the age cut-off by two years or less.

[kristin0713]

3 minutes ago, Melissa in Australia said:

He us so stressed out with all the planni g etc, as here in Australia it only takes a few coronavirus cases to completly shut down everything. 

Any planning dilemmas that are covid-related is 100% in a different category than drawing a line at 18 and leaving out *one* teen in a family. 

I personally would not be planning anything for a crowd right now as I would not want to have a super spreader event on my conscience.  Yeah, that is easy for me to say as my kids are not at marrying ages.  Weddings and funerals during a pandemic are just really, really hard.  So decisions related to that--I can understand the limited completely. 

I think what has happened to the OP's family is really rude and I feel for the sibling who is left out.  It's not like they cut the age at 10. 

[Melissa in Australia]

1 minute ago, Quill said:

I sure hope that isn’t the case, on either of our sides of the world. I am sorry but I have lost track of where your country is on vaccines or getting the pandemic under thumb. 

I’m a hopeless optimist, I know, but I expect myself/my whole extended family will be fully vaccinated by then, other than those who will not accept the vax. 

Australia hasn't started vaccinations at all yet. 

We went for elimination here in Australia, mostly successfully, but there are still people arriving in Australia from overseas. They do a mabdotory 14 days quarantine, but in the last week there has been 4 cases of transition to staff. In 4 different states. This immediately results in snap lockdowns and reduced numbers at gatherings for the whole state

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, SKL said:

OK but it would become personal if the bride decided to include just Quill's ds16 when there are others close in age/proximity who are excluded.

So OK, then she invites all the 16yo cousins, and then someone who has a 14/15yo gets mad.

At some point it has to be arbitrary.

Well, personally, that’s not how I view it and it’s not what we’re doing with dd’s wedding. We are inviting all the younger siblings of first cousins who are over 18. This adds eight more guests if every single one attends, which I kinda doubt will happen. If we did it the way it has been done to my family, there would be three family units with a dangling remainder kid. Including those kids on the invite list is not at all the same as, say, your co-worker who is invited thinking her 14yo should be invited too. I have not seen that expectation at any weddings. Usually, there may be some kids, but they are in the close inner circle of the family, which is why they are invited and not other kids. 

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, DoraBora said:

I just wonder whether your dh's brother realizes (or whether the bride realizes) what this means for your particular family.  I think this bride will one day be mortified that she left out a single member of one family who missed the age cut-off by two years or less.

I do think that could happen, but I also think bringing it up is not worth the drama, especially since my dd is also getting married and I don’t want my butt-hurt SIL to take out her anger at my bringing it up on my kid. I think if I was going to say something, I might have done so the first time because now the bride most likely just thinks it’s normal and it’s fine. 

I think, due to some hard feelings between dh and that brother, BIL would not care one jot that I/we find it hurtful to exclude one kid. 

[SKL]

3 minutes ago, Quill said:

Well, personally, that’s not how I view it and it’s not what we’re doing with dd’s wedding. We are inviting all the younger siblings of first cousins who are over 18. This adds eight more guests if every single one attends, which I kinda doubt will happen. If we did it the way it has been done to my family, there would be three family units with a dangling remainder kid. Including those kids on the invite list is not at all the same as, say, your co-worker who is invited thinking her 14yo should be invited too. I have not seen that expectation at any weddings. Usually, there may be some kids, but they are in the close inner circle of the family, which is why they are invited and not other kids. 

So you have an arbitrary line too; you just drew it in a different place.  That's also fine.  But maybe there is some 1st cousin who didn't get invited because she has no siblings over 18, who is gonna feel bad because some of her similar-aged cousins got invited and she got left out.  You just can't avoid that completely, and I'm not saying you should.

[marbel]

21 minutes ago, Quill said:

You mean like, if she wears a backless dress that some people think is too sexy? 😄

BTW, I think this is the dress I am going to wear for my dd’s wedding:  

https://www.jjshouse.com/Sheath-Column-Scoop-Neck-Knee-Length-Satin-Lace-Mother-Of-The-Bride-Dress-With-Sequins-008217310-g217310

Oh no, I was not thinking of that at all! 

I'm talking about the mothers who insist on having their say in all the details. For example - a few  years ago I was shopping for party supplies with my daughter, a friend of hers, and the friend's mother, for a joint birthday party the girls were having. The friend's mom was trying to control everything, down to the colors and shape of the paper plates. Then she went on to talk about her wedding, and all the ways her mother made her do things she didn't want to do, or not do things she did want to do, so this woman had been resenting her mother's interference for, I don't know, 15+ years... and later when my daughter and I were talking about it, we both agreed that when the time comes, her friend should elope because there would be no way her mom would not control every damn bit of her wedding. 

ETA: Love the dress!

Edited February 7, 2021 by marbel

[Melissa in Australia]

10 minutes ago, kristin0713 said:

Any planning dilemmas that are covid-related is 100% in a different category than drawing a line at 18 and leaving out *one* teen in a family. 

I personally would not be planning anything for a crowd right now as I would not want to have a super spreader event on my conscience.  Yeah, that is easy for me to say as my kids are not at marrying ages.  Weddings and funerals during a pandemic are just really, really hard.  So decisions related to that--I can understand the limited completely. 

I think what has happened to the OP's family is really rude and I feel for the sibling who is left out.  It's not like they cut the age at 10. 

What would you do if you had a dd21 who is getting married? 

Encourage her to elope? 

We are really  are struggling on what to do

[kristin0713]

Just now, Melissa in Australia said:

What would you do if you had a dd21 who is getting married? 

Encourage her to elope? 

We are really  are struggling on what to do

I think that I would encourage a private celebration with immediate family and wait another year for a big wedding, if indeed she wanted a big wedding.  In my case, immediate family would be my parents, sister and brother and their spouses, and DH's parents. (He is estranged from his two brothers.)  Whatever the groom's family situation, I would recommend inviting his parents, siblings, and their spouses.  Of course, I am only speculating on what I would do.  I'm guessing that a gathering like that could be done in under 20 people.  But since I'm not in that situation, I really have no idea, especially without knowing the wishes of the couple.  I do feel for people planning weddings right now and I'm not passing judgement on another's choices...although I think 150 people inside (which is currently the limit in NJ) is still very irresponsible right *now* as the numbers and vaccination rates stand.  

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, SKL said:

So you have an arbitrary line too; you just drew it in a different place.  That's also fine.  But maybe there is some 1st cousin who didn't get invited because she has no siblings over 18, who is gonna feel bad because some of her similar-aged cousins got invited and she got left out.  You just can't avoid that completely, and I'm not saying you should.

No, there aren’t any kids in that category. There are no similar-aged first cousins who are left out. They are all invited, though is possible or likely their parents will not choose to have them attend, judging from decisions they have made at past weddings. So, for instance, one family has four boys, only one who will be over 18. The other boys are invited. If they come, great. But I don’t think the parents will choose that. It is out of state for them and they will have to get lodging for six. So I doubt all four boys will come. But it won’t be on our shoulders; they are invited. 

[Melissa in Australia]

4 minutes ago, kristin0713 said:

I think that I would encourage a private celebration with immediate family and wait another year for a big wedding, if indeed she wanted a big wedding.  In my case, immediate family would be my parents, sister and brother and their spouses, and DH's parents. (He is estranged from his two brothers.)  Whatever the groom's family situation, I would recommend inviting his parents, siblings, and their spouses.  Of course, I am only speculating on what I would do.  I'm guessing that a gathering like that could be done in under 20 people.  But since I'm not in that situation, I really have no idea, especially without knowing the wishes of the couple.  I do feel for people planning weddings right now and I'm not passing judgement on another's choices...although I think 150 people inside (which is currently the limit in NJ) is still very irresponsible right *now* as the numbers and vaccination rates stand.  

I mediate family would be 32. Groom has 10 siblings, one has children. Some have partners. 

My Dd has 6 siblings, 3 have partners

With no friends at all, just adding my siblings and families plus grooms parents siblings it would be 98

She doesn't want a big wedding, she thinks 98 is too many and if she invites one unkle then she feels she would have to invite them all. 

She also thinks 32 too many but how do you not invite direct siblings of the bride and groom when the groom still lives at his parents house with the majority of his 10 siblings........ If just his siblings are invited an not any of Dd siblings it would be awful awful awful

Edited February 7, 2021 by Melissa in Australia

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, marbel said:

Oh no, I was not thinking of that at all! 

I'm talking about the mothers who insist on having their say in all the details. For example - a few  years ago I was shopping for party supplies with my daughter, a friend of hers, and the friend's mother, for a joint birthday party the girls were having. The friend's mom was trying to control everything, down to the colors and shape of the paper plates. Then she went on to talk about her own wedding, and how she wanted a certain color but her mother said no, she couldn't have that color because it wasn't the right season, so this woman had been resenting her mother's interference for, I don't know, 15+ years... and later when my daughter and I were talking about it, we both agreed that when the time comes, her friend should elope because there would be no way her mom would not control every damn bit of her wedding. 

😁 I know, I was just teasing. 

I do know what you mean about MOB-zillas. Actually, one of dd’s friends is going through this. And it’s tough because the parents are paying, so they have this weird over-involvement because, “Well, we’re paying...” 

[MercyA]

32 minutes ago, Quill said:

You mean like, if she wears a backless dress that some people think is too sexy? 😄

BTW, I think this is the dress I am going to wear for my dd’s wedding:  

https://www.jjshouse.com/Sheath-Column-Scoop-Neck-Knee-Length-Satin-Lace-Mother-Of-The-Bride-Dress-With-Sequins-008217310-g217310

I love that dress and you are going to look fantastic in it.

[dirty ethel rackham]

We've experienced this so often in our family.  And it's not just weddings, but that is only the latest issue.  When my older siblings were having kids, we all went to their kids' baptisms, birthday parties, recitals, big events, etc.  Even as a poor college student, I sent cool gifts to their newborns.  When my kids were born, they were all over this whole young kids thing and couldn't be bothered.  My oldest is 2 years younger than the next oldest.  My kids missed out on a lot of family bonding events because my siblings were "past that."  It has come back to rear its ugly head with weddings.  My siblings' children have been invited to each other's weddings.  But my kids have not been included.  Yes, they are younger, but lots of other young children were invited but my then jr. high/ high school age children were not.  For some of these, it was not likely that we could take them due to distance, but it still kind of stung that they are not considered "family enough." 

A year ago, my niece got married.  All of my nieces and nephews and their plus ones were invited.  They included my youngest daughter, who was a college sophomore at the time (her name was specifically listed on our invitation.)   But not my older kids.  I can understand the trepidation of inviting K due to her issues (and she would not have gone.)  But not inviting my oldest, who is only 2 years younger than the bride really stung.   I think they included my youngest daughter because she is the "fun one" of our kids.  We went to EVERYTHING of hers ... dance recitals, ball games, graduation parties (even from grade school), etc.  Nobody even bothered to get his address to send him an invitation.  It is unlikely that he could have attended due to being in grad school over 1000 miles away, but they could have at least asked.  My kids have missed out on relationships with their cousins, aunts and uncles, etc.  

 

1 hour ago, MissLemon said:

Slight tangent here, but I really hate the attitude of "It's the bride's special day!!!!", so everyone has to grin and bear whatever irrational thing she wants.  The groom's opinion should matter, too. It should be the couple's special day, not just all about the bride.

I hate this as well.  It is the uniting of two into one.  In my experience, anyone who declares it to be "the brides special day" is one who doesn't give a flip about the other people in her life.  It is like an instagram moment, not a real thing happening.  

[SKL]

16 minutes ago, Melissa in Australia said:

What would you do if you had a dd21 who is getting married? 

Encourage her to elope? 

We are really  are struggling on what to do

This is such a tough time for weddings.  I think a lot of people are just getting married in a small ceremony with their parents and maybe a couple of really close people like maid of honor & best man.  Then they may or may not plan a big shindig for later.  The hard part is that nobody really knows how much later.  Our business hosts weddings, and we are on the second wave of re-scheduling events that were supposed to happen last year.  (People can still have events, but they would have to un-invite half of their family and friends, and many don't want to do that.)  At some point, I could imagine that some couples would just decide to skip the party.

[Scarlett]

36 minutes ago, SKL said:

OK but it would become personal if the bride decided to include just Quill's ds16 when there are others close in age/proximity who are excluded.

So OK, then she invites all the 16yo cousins, and then someone who has a 14/15yo gets mad.

At some point it has to be arbitrary.

It is not just about whether or not there are other underage cousins....it is about splitting up a family to not invite a 16 year old. 

[SKL]

1 minute ago, Scarlett said:

It is not just about whether or not there are other underage cousins....it is about splitting up a family to not invite a 16 year old. 

I know some people think it's wrong to have an adult-only wedding.  But if someone does have one, someone is getting left out.

I don't think it's a big deal to "split up the family."  Families don't all do everything together.  It's not unusual for adults to attend things the kids don't get to attend.  When I was a kid, being included in special out-of-house events was unusual.  It was much more usual for the older siblings under 18 to be left in charge of younger siblings while the adults went to things.

[Spy Car]

This wedding will be held in a post-pandemic future or in the nearer term?

Bill

 

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, Spy Car said:

This wedding will be held in a post-pandemic future or in the nearer term?

Bill

 

It is planned for end of Oct 2021. So - hopefully yes, post-pandemic. 

[Shoeless]

1 hour ago, marbel said:

I agree but you know what strikes me funny?  So often it seems that it's really about being the bride's mother's special day, sometimes to the dismay of the bride herself (and the groom).  

When I was planning my 1st wedding, I was completely railroaded by my stepmother.  Everything was how she wanted it.  The only thing I got to pick was the flowers and the dj, and she even tried to bulldoze the dj into some changes she wanted.  (She also tried to put my half-sisters, her daughters, into off-white bridesmaid dresses, until my aunt gave her a look).  It was such a miserable experience that when I married my now-DH, we eloped.  Weddings bring out some really odd and ugly behavior in some people.

[Bootsie]

1 hour ago, Scarlett said:

It is not just about whether or not there are other underage cousins....it is about splitting up a family to not invite a 16 year old. 

But then, aren't the other families split up if the 14-year olds aren't invited?  I am not seeing how you draw any age line of who is invited without splitting up some families.  The only way that I can see that it isn't splitting up families is if adults are considered adults who are being invited as adults (with their own invitation) rather than being invited as part of a family unit.

[Guest]

48 minutes ago, Bootsie said:

But then, aren't the other families split up if the 14-year olds aren't invited?  I am not seeing how you draw any age line of who is invited without splitting up some families.  The only way that I can see that it isn't splitting up families is if adults are considered adults who are being invited as adults (with their own invitation) rather than being invited as part of a family unit.

I personally don’t think it should be split that way either. I don’t think any family group should be split with some invited and some not. For my dd’s wedding, it won’t be, unless the parents decide that themselves. 

[Janeway]

11 hours ago, Quill said:

Almost a JAWM. Not 100% a JAWM, because I absolutely know that some people are sympathetic to the wedding family’s right to make a hard age line in the sand. However. This is the fourth time a first cousin of my kids is getting married and is inviting my two over-18 kids and not my youngest. I’m going to be nakedly honest here - this burns me up! 

I totally understand where the issue comes from; we have a big family with a crap-ton of first cousins. I totally get not having kids at the wedding because then you could potentially have 20 kids - little kids - which is expensive and moves away from the picture in mind. Still. I am helping plan my dd’s wedding and, after debating about the age line thing and on my insistance that under NO circumstances will I cut off the younger kid in a family as has repeatedly happened to me, it actually only increases our guest list by potentially 8 people, and they are not little kids; they are mostly teens and upper teens. Additionally, I don’t even completely expect all 8 under-18s who are first cousins will attend. 

My dd assures me that my ds 16 will not really care that he is not invited to his first cousin’s wedding. I expect that is true. But it feels so mean-spirited to me to invite my older kids and hang my younger kid out to dry. Over and over again, he misses this experience that they both have available to them. (When this has happened the past three times, my older kids did not go either, but it was also easy to decline them because they were occupied at college. One of the times, dd was in France.) 

I have actually googled “one child left off wedding invitation” and I do not get any results that appear to speak to this situation. They all appear to have to do with not inviting kids to the wedding at all. I don’t find any advice about splitting families where some kids are adults and some are just not quite adults. I personally just think it’s a crap decision to butt off one cousin of three in a family because he is not yet 18. It burns me up and bothers me a lot. About the only good thing I can say is that this is most likely the last time it will happen because of the way the ages work out; I expect my dd’s wedding will likely be the last one for three or more years, unless another cousin marries very young. 

Wedding are supposed to be about family. The entire point of the wedding is the merging of two families. Having age cut offs wreaks of vanity and narcissism. I would probably not go at all, send no gift. They care more about how everything looks than they do about the people being there for it.

[Garga]

I love your dress, Quill! It’s perfect for you!

[Kassia]

1 hour ago, MissLemon said:

When I was planning my 1st wedding, I was completely railroaded by my stepmother.  Everything was how she wanted it.  The only thing I got to pick was the flowers and the dj, and she even tried to bulldoze the dj into some changes she wanted.  (She also tried to put my half-sisters, her daughters, into off-white bridesmaid dresses, until my aunt gave her a look).  It was such a miserable experience that when I married my now-DH, we eloped.  Weddings bring out some really odd and ugly behavior in some people.

This is what happened with my wedding and my mother (a narcissist).  I wish we had eloped.  Instead, I just gave up and went along with everything she wanted.  I love my marriage (almost 34 years), but hated our wedding.  No good memories and I hate the pictures.  

 

[Scarlett]

Just now, Kassia said:

This is what happened with my wedding and my mother (a narcissist).  I wish we had eloped.  Instead, I just gave up and went along with everything she wanted.  I love my marriage (almost 34 years), but hated our wedding.  No good memories and I hate the pictures.  

 

Take a page from @Mrs Tiggywinkle and redo your pictures.