Thanks

[MoyaPechal]

28 minutes ago, cjzimmer1 said:

guacamole is a fat, a very healthy fat, definitely not a veggie.

I've always heard about 1/2 cup of cooked veggies for a serving.  Unless there was a lot of green peppers, I don't think that would qualify as a serving of green veggie.

But I agree with the others, overall you served some pretty healthy food there.  No meal will ever be perfect.  I'm sure there is a reason why it' makes sense to do the cooking for the other family but if he is micromanaging the food to this level, you might need to rethink it.  Forcing someone else to cook and serve to ones own desired level of nutrition is a sure fire way to burn out that other person.

Yes. Just reading about this is exhausting, honestly. And the food served was perfectly acceptable! I would love to eat that meal.

[Drama Llama]

...

Edited December 19, 2020 by BaseballandHockey

[Bootsie]

23 minutes ago, wendyroo said:

I count avocado as a fat, a healthy fat, but a fat not a vegetable.

In my mind, for something to qualify as a vegetable it has to be nutrient and/or fiber dense, and relatively low in calories and carbs.

An avocado isn't low calorie, but it is low carb and fiber dense.  One avocado has about the same fiber as two cups of carrots, 25-30 spears of asparagus, or three cups of cooked cauliflower.  It is also rich in some vitamins and minerals.  

[Bootsie]

28 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

I make 'em with lots of oats and sometimes even use ground up oats for most of the flour. At that point they're just protein.

I often add pumpkin, which I suppose is technically a fruit; if there is agreement that sweet potatoes are a vegetable, maybe I could substitute those and then say my pancake meal includes veggies 🙂

 

[SKL]

I would also note that in my research when my picky eater was a tot, I read that Americans tend to way overdo protein.  Is there any scientific support for BIL's targets as to the quantity and frequency of proteins eaten by kids?  And, I hope you are counting milk when you add up those protein points.  Another good source, which many don't think of as "a protein," is oatmeal [which also has lots of other good stuff in it].

[Amy in NH]

3 hours ago, BaseballandHockey said:

 

Use the MyPlate guidelines put out by USDA as the final arbiter.

 

Tomato based sauce (e.g. marinara or bolognese or pizza sauce) (veggie or not?)

Must be at least a 1/2 C of sauce in order to count as a veggie.  Cooked tomatoes in sauce form are high in lycopene.

Sweet potatoes in various formats (veggie or not?)

Sweet potatoes may be high in vitamin A, but they are actually a starch - so in the grain group.

Black beans, lentils, chickpeas, soy butter  (veggie? protein?  neither? both?)

Beans, lentils, and chickpeas are proteins that are also high in fiber.  Soy butter is a fat.

Cheese as part of a dish (e.g. pizza, ravioli, quesadilla)

Cheese can count as dairy, but kids age 2-8 only need 2 servings a day of dairy, and 2 oz of cheese is a serving.

So, what says the hive?  

Edited December 17, 2020 by Amy in NH

[wendyroo]

34 minutes ago, Pam in CT said:

I see.

Perhaps he'd like to take the task on a few nights a week.

I don't think there is any need to scoff at a parent who is trying to ensure his children eat a "healthy" diet as he defines it.

DH and I bring a lot of baggage to feeding our children. We both really, really struggle with our weight and related health consequences. I never was exposed to healthy foods as a child because my mom primarily cooked frozen tater tots and chicken nuggets. DH's mom did cook for herself and her husband, but never encouraged her kids to eat the "adult" food and instead prepared them a steady diet of grilled cheese, mac and cheese, buttered toast, cheesy mashed potatoes, etc. She still assumes that children will reject all fruits, vegetables and non-cheese proteins, and with her kids it was a self-fulfilling prophesy.

DH and I have spent our adult lives trying to retrain our habits, tastes and metabolisms, and we are doing everything in our power to avoid those pitfalls with our children. So it is a high priority for us that our kids get in the habit of eating low-calorie, nutrient-dense vegetables; that they don't get in the habit of drinking their calories; that they view processed foods as a splurge, not a staple; that they don't graze but rather eat at set meal and snack times, etc. And it is not a double standard because those are exactly the same things DH and I work toward ourselves.

That doesn't mean meals are a fight or a negative experience at our house. It doesn't mean we don't ever eat out or make cookies or have candy in the house. It just means that I do pay a tremendous amount of attention to what I buy and serve and how I can nurture my children's healthy eating habits, even when, especially when, it goes against their natural eating instincts.  I think we have to acknowledge that some people's eating instincts and metabolisms are not yet well adapted to modern food availability, and if given the opportunity would happily gorge themselves into an early grave on sugar and fat. Genetically my kids are strongly predisposed to weight problems, so I don't feel any guilt over taking an active role in guiding their early food choices. 

[Drama Llama]

...

Edited December 19, 2020 by BaseballandHockey

[MoyaPechal]

Starchy vegetables are still vegetables. 

[wathe]

26 minutes ago, MoyaPechal said:

Avocado is a fruit, isn't it?

Well, sure, botanically.  But so are cucumbers, peppers, squash, pumpkins, tomatoes, olives.... all of which are treated as vegetables for culinary purposes.  (My kids like to split hairs.......)

 

 

[Amy in NH]

We have always tried to serve a well-balanced diet, and yes that meant that our kids ate at least three bites of what we served even if it wasn't their favorite.  I wouldn't be happy if we were forced into a situation where other children at the table got away without eating healthy food, and were allowed to pick and choose and snack on empty calories later.  I also wouldn't be happy if my kids were continually fed a nutritionally incomplete diet.  Nor would I be happy if I knew I was feeding healthy food and someone else was dissatisfied with my choice, especially if I had gone to the expense and trouble of making food for them or their children on a regular basis. 

I haven't read ANY of the thread aside from the OP, so I have no idea what is actually going on here, but if I had a problem with the way
1) I was being asked to feed someone else's kids, or 2) someone else was feeding my kids, I would feed my own kids at their own separate meal and let the other parents handle feeding their own kids.  That's just too much drama for me!

Edited December 17, 2020 by Amy in NH

[Pam in CT]

8 minutes ago, wendyroo said:

I don't think there is any need to scoff at a parent who is trying to ensure his children eat a "healthy" diet as he defines it.

..

Nah, not scoffing. Inviting anyone who has a lot of opinions on how I'm doing something, to share in the doing of the thing, is a pretty standard strategy for me.  You have detailed ideas, let's do it together, or let's take turns. 

To my mind, that is absolutely a constructive way to approach a difference in viewpoints.

 

[I do get why in this case that's not the approach @BaseballandHockey wants to go with.]

[Drama Llama]

...

Edited December 19, 2020 by BaseballandHockey

[Carol in Cal.]

1 hour ago, Pam in CT said:

The "what counts" language is cracking me up.   Who "counts"?  Every meal... there's going to be another meal, in, like, six minutes or something.  I definitely never aimed to get every kid perfectly balanced every time, just kept a vague eye on the big picture.

That said...

Tomato based sauce - I guess technically tomato is healthy fruit not a veg, but I anyway manage to "fruits and vegetables" as a category. And I make it up from tomato paste, so there's no sugar... but unless I jam lentils and carrots and stuff into it, I don't really "count" it as anything, just garnish. (Same, FWIW, for pesto despite the pignoli and cheese. The only pasta sauce I'd "count" nutritionally is Jimmy Kimmel's #genius hack alfredo, which is solidly a protein.)

Sweet potato - I guess technically is a starch/carb, but sufficiently nutritious that I "count" that one as a veg.

Legumes - protein.  We have black bean soup probably once a week; it's definitely one of the go-to everyone-likes-it basics.

Cheese - protein. Sure, with a lot of fat. Whether I'd "count" it depends on how much of it.  A sprinkle of grated parm on top of pasta = calorie dense flavoring.  Wisconsin cheddar beer soup, or fondue = protein, with a lot of fat.

 

This is more or less how I view the world, except I think I may be a bit of an outlier in that I view raw fruit in much the same category as vegetables, not some lesser also-ran.  Fruit is AWESOME. When the kids were little, I always put a pile of raw vegetables - cut up carrots, celery, broccoli, string beans, snap peas, red peppers, whatever was on hand -- so if they didn't like the cooked vegetable they could scarf up that.  More recently during COVID I've updated the same basic hack to fresh fruit. Tonight along with shepherd's pie, buttered noodles, and broccoli we had... canteloupe.  We ate the whole thing.

ITA about raw fruit.  Fresh fruits and veggies is actually our category title in my house.

[Drama Llama]

...

Edited December 19, 2020 by BaseballandHockey

[Drama Llama]

39 minutes ago, wathe said:

Well, sure, botanically.  But so are cucumbers, peppers, squash, pumpkins, tomatoes, olives.... all of which are treated as vegetables for culinary purposes.  (My kids like to split hairs.......)

 

 

My kid would argue that sugar cane's a vegetable so logically  . . . 

I guess I'm happy if my kids are eating a variety of foods that grew out of the ground, and came into our house without a lot of processing.  Fruit, vegetable, starch, healthy fat, I'm OK.  

[Drama Llama]

...

Edited December 19, 2020 by BaseballandHockey

[mellifera33]

Your meal was great. If a parent has strict rules for what their children eat, they can be responsible for enforcing those rules. My kids haven’t ever had trouble understanding that different parents have different rules, and my kids aren’t neurotypical. Your family has been through a lot, and I wonder if your BIL is micromanaging food because it’s one of the few things that can be controlled at this point? It’s not fair of him to put that on you, though. 

[wathe]

11 minutes ago, BaseballandHockey said:

My kid would argue that sugar cane's a vegetable so logically  . . . 

I guess I'm happy if my kids are eating a variety of foods that grew out of the ground, and came into our house without a lot of processing.  Fruit, vegetable, starch, healthy fat, I'm OK.  

And sugar beets...

[Drama Llama]

Just now, wathe said:

And sugar beets...

for sure, and cacao beans.

My kid loves to bake and try new complicated recipes.  I told him for every dessert he makes, he needs to make something new from the fruit, vegetable, protein, and dairy categories.  

His first proposals were things like apple pie (apple = fruit), brownies (cacao beans = vegetables), lemon bars (egg = protein) and ice cream.

He did get some credit for trying.

[wathe]

2 minutes ago, BaseballandHockey said:

for sure, and cacao beans.

My kid loves to bake and try new complicated recipes.  I told him for every dessert he makes, he needs to make something new from the fruit, vegetable, protein, and dairy categories.  

His first proposals were things like apple pie (apple = fruit), brownies (cacao beans = vegetables), lemon bars (egg = protein) and ice cream.

He did get some credit for trying.

Mine have tried a similar argument with coffee.  No dice, kid.

[mellifera33]

Just now, wathe said:

Mine have tried a similar argument with coffee.  No dice, kid.

But coffee is basically bean soup!

[wendyroo]

10 minutes ago, BaseballandHockey said:

I guess I'm having trouble seeing the meal I served, the one that he objected to, as being similar to what you're describing your in laws as serving.  The only calories that were drunk were the ones in his kids' milk, which he insisted on.  There were multiple fruits and vegetables on the table, and every kid ate something in both categories.  Yes, there were some processed foods.  I didn't make the tortillas, I used canned tomatoes in the soup, and one kid ate canned black bean soup.  

I'm not saying that what you served is anywhere near the unhealthy diet that DH and I were fed as children. I think you are doing an amazing job under challenging circumstances.

I'm simply throwing out there that what one parent sees as controlling and micromanaging, another might see as doing their due diligence to cultivate essential healthy eating habits.

Some parents see music practice as absolutely mandatory, others view any forced academics as overly authoritarian. Some have no problem cutting a child's hair against their wishes, others would stay home rather than strap a resisting toddler into a carseat.

Your BIL seems to have clearly defined (at least in his own head) ideas about what foods are important for his kids to eat. I would argue there is nothing inherently wrong with that. It is certainly not the parenting philosophy for everyone, and it certainly should not be the sole determiner in what gets served to the whole family, but it definitely can be a reasonable attitude held by a loving, engaged parent.

I know my MIL looks at DH and I like we are certifiably insane when we limit our kids to one glass of juice a day at her house or tell them they have had enough sweet potato fries and if they are still hungry they need to have a second helping of a different food group. OTOH, I can imagine feeling somewhat the same way if some day my DIL brings her kids over and says they are only allowed to eat organic food or nothing with any added sugar. 

They are all just different standards. Different parents trying to do what they think might be best for their kids.

[wathe]

3 minutes ago, mellifera33 said:

But coffee is basically bean soup!

I think you might be related to my children somehow.......

[Drama Llama]

...

Edited December 19, 2020 by BaseballandHockey

[Tap]

My goal of feeding my children is both healthy foods and variety. Due to this I agree with Hippymamto3

Tomato sauce - veggie

Sweet potatoes - veggie

beans, lentils, chickpeas - protein

cheese - protein 

To me,  a tablespoonful of tomato sauce, or a sprinkle of cheese on a plate with a good variety of foods, is more healthy that a whole plate of only tomatoes and a serving of baked chicken.  I go for variety and common sense, not individual portion sizes.  If a child only wanted to eat a tablespoonful of tomato sauce for an entire month, and count that as thier only veggie, then I would have an issue with it. But, not because I discount a tomato as  a veggie......but because I feel variety is just important in diet as individual ingredients.  I don't care if a tomato is a fruit, we value fruits, veggies, nuts and grains as whole foods that are often eaten as a whole food item, eaten raw or minimally processed.

 

[prairiewindmomma]

Reading what you made—that seems like a lot of good, healthy choices.

I am sorry you are in a difficult situation with BIL. 

[Drama Llama]

...

Edited December 19, 2020 by BaseballandHockey

[Tanaqui]

Protein: This is not a meal category. Just about everything you eat has amino acids, which is to say, protein. You're not going to develop protein deficiency over a short family visit, indeed, about the only way you can develop severe protein deficiency is if you're starving to death, in which case it's... I mean, it's everything. Beans and pulses are vegetables which happen to have a fairly decent amount of amino acids, and which form a complete protein when served with a grain such as rice. If your relatives want more protein, and their children have a limited diet, every day cook up some eggs or chicken breast to serve plain with the meal. You can even get pre-cooked hard boiled eggs and chicken breast in most supermarkets.

Vegetables: If the goal is to simply have a diet that includes vegetables, then a generous helping of tomato sauce is a vegetable. If the goal is to encourage children to eat vegetables as a food category then you might want to serve some other vegetable as well and consider the sauce a condiment. Sweet potatoes are a vegetable. However... as a matter of dinnertime policy, I don't consider deep-fried foods "vegetables" even if they are, so sweet potato fries are right out.

You didn't ask this, but potatoes, while quite starchy, get an undeservedly bad rap due to the way we tend to fry them or else drown them in butter and sour cream. If you have nothing else to eat but potatoes and milk, you can live for quite a long time on that diet with no problems. The average nutrition of Afro-Eurasian populations increased dramatically when potatoes became widespread in the Old World.

[Tanaqui]

Quote

In my mind, for something to qualify as a vegetable it has to be nutrient and/or fiber dense, and relatively low in calories and carbs.

You just described avocado. 40% of your daily fiber intake in one small avocado, nutrient dense, half an avocado is 160 calories. Not "low" in calories, perhaps, but not exactly a caloric bomb.

As for everybody asking "Isn't this a fruit" - botanically speaking, a fruit is the ripened ovary of the plant. It always amuses me that people will say "Tomatoes are a fruit, you know" (indeed, they're berries) but not "Peppers are a fruit, cucumbers are a fruit, squash is a fruit, pumpkin is a fruit..."

In a culinary sense, a fruit is something we use as a fruit. This is a bit circular, but there it is. So tomatoes aren't culinary fruits because we exclusively eat them in savory preparations. Avocados in the US are generally not culinary fruits, though I do have one great recipe for fruit salad that includes avocado and banana. Some foods which can be used as fruits - like pumpkins when we make pumpkin pie - are never referred to that way.

The term "vegetable" doesn't really have a botanical definition, or not a useful one - it's any plant matter. In the kitchen, a "vegetable" is a plant or fungus that we eat "as a vegetable" - that is to say, in savory preparations - but that isn't better described as an "herb" or a "spice" or a "grain". Once again, this is a bit circular and we can argue all day about it, but why would you want to?

As for the OP's BIL, now that I've read all the posts instead of just the front one - he can get a grip. When you have guests or when you are a guest, you loosen up a little. You compromise. Sometimes that means that your kids spend a week eating meals that aren't exactly what you'd serve at home (or when you didn't have guests). Usually, that's not a big deal in the long run. If he's got these strict mealtime rules then he really ought to take over half the cooking.

[PeterPan]

3 hours ago, Bootsie said:

I often add pumpkin, which I suppose is technically a fruit; if there is agreement that sweet potatoes are a vegetable, maybe I could substitute those and then say my pancake meal includes veggies 🙂

 

I tried that one time, and while I liked them no one else did! 

[PeterPan]

30 minutes ago, BaseballandHockey said:

I guess I feel like he's micromanaging me,

Any guesses why? Has it always been this way or is it reaction to stress/grief? Because it sounds like it needed to get swatted down. He needs a plant to grow or something.

Does he like to cook? Maybe he'd like to take over a while? Not like you don't have enough to do, mercy.

[PeterPan]

1 hour ago, BaseballandHockey said:

Yep, we're all stressed. I've got some PTSD around trying to get calories into my son who came to us with major malnutrition, and medical issues that made eating hard.  He's got his own anxieties.  So, we're all kind of stepping on each other's toes, if that makes sense.

But, I'd rather know what's going to pass muster before I start cooking.  To be honest, it didn't even cross my mind that my quesadilla didn't count as protein until after the meal was done.  If a kid had chosen guacamole as their vegetable, it wouldn't have occurred to me that that was a problem either.  

 

Maybe it would be easier if you decided nutrition doesn't matter till January. Normal people are living on cookies right now.

Whoever's anxiety is driving this up needs to go to a steam room, talk with a counselor, get a med, something. 

[Drama Llama]

...

 

Edited December 19, 2020 by BaseballandHockey

[Drama Llama]

...

Edited December 19, 2020 by BaseballandHockey

[Drama Llama]

...

Edited December 19, 2020 by BaseballandHockey

[Drama Llama]

...

Edited December 19, 2020 by BaseballandHockey

[Tanaqui]

1 hour ago, BaseballandHockey said:

So, to be clear, he's not really a guest.  They've been here since July, and will be here at least through next July.  So, this isn't a short term thing.  Part of what's going on, is that I've been feeding them like "guests", in that I make their favorites over and over, and he's been letting things go on the grounds that they're "guests", and now it's time for a new routine.  

 

Oh, I see. Yeah, you're going to need to figure out what your ultimate game plan is to compromise and then have a sincere heart-to-heart with him, because you need a long-term solution that makes both of you, if not happy, at least equally unhappy.

[Melissa in Australia]

https://www.eatforhealth.gov.au/guidelines/australian-guide-healthy-eating

I have  magnet version of this on the fridge.

[Melissa in Australia]

I make over half of the plate  vegetables. 5 or more vegetables is preferred, but sometimes it is less. I try to have 3 different colors. purple is desirable for the antioxidants. I have one type of meat the size of the  palm of the hand of the person who is eating it. And one grain or starch , like rice or potatoes.

example. tonight we had beef sausages, fresh garden salad, boiled beetroot, carrots, mushrooms, zucchini and onions, cherry tomatoes and  potato 

yesterday we had chicken, sweet potato, fresh green beans, red cabbage, carrots, cucumber and potato 

milk is consumed at snack time and after eating dinner if someone is still hungry.

 

[Sherry in OH]

8 hours ago, BaseballandHockey said:

 

Tomato based sauce (e.g. marinara or bolognese or pizza sauce) (veggie or not?) - 

Sweet potatoes in various formats (veggie or not?)

Black beans, lentils, chickpeas, soy butter  (veggie? protein?  neither? both?)

Cheese as part of a dish (e.g. pizza, ravioli, quesadilla)

So, what says the hive?  

Tomato - any form other than ketchup is a vegetable. 

Sweet potatoes - I'd be thrilled if my children ate these and wouldn't quibble about whether they are starch or vegetable

Beans - by themselves can be counted as either vegetable or protein but not both in the same meal.  Bean soup is both protein and vegetable

Cheese - protein

Partial servings count.  For example a child who ate 1/4 serving of tomato sauce plus 1/4 serving of sweet potato plus 1/2 serving of soup consumed a whole serving of vegetables.  It is really difficult for someone who eats a varied diet with sufficient calories not to get enough protein.  If it is a concern in your house offer protein-rich snacks - hard-boiled egg, pumpkin seeds, slices of turkey ...  Peas are actually quite high in both fiber and protein.  If the children like peas, feed them peas.

 

 

 

 

[MoyaPechal]

5 hours ago, BaseballandHockey said:

My middle kid had severe protein-energy malnutrition at one point, but I promise it wasn't when he was eating my food.  

So, at this point, between the little ones and the pescatarian, I often make two proteins at a meal, and try to cover the 3 categories (omnivores who like flavor, pescatarian, and picky kids) in one meal.  So, for example, the other day I served Swedish meatballs, and scrambled eggs.  The day before that I cooked some marinated mixed seafood, and some plain chicken breast.

But the kids are also eating other meals and snacks.  To me that's one of the things I think we disagree on.  I'm happy to serve a meal with a "protein" my pickier kid won't eat, and let him fill up on milk and sides.  I figure he eats, at a minimum, 3 meals and 2 snacks a day, and he's not going to turn down the protein at all of them. 

I don't do a lot of fried food here.  Usually sweet potatoes would be baked, or mashed, or roasted with some other vegetables.  However, the reason they're on my mind tonight is because I was planning to make sweet potato and zucchini latkes tomorrow, so one of my questions is whether or not that counts.  It hadn't really occurred to me that the preparation made a difference in whether something was a vegetable or not.  I'm planning to serve peas as well, so maybe I'll just make sure that his kids eat those.  

Yeah, I agree with you in theory.  I'm not going to try and sell white potatoes as a vegetable.  If I make them, I'll add some peas or something on the side.   

I think the latkes sound great! That's a clever idea.

 

Also I didn't mean to start a whole thing about avocados. I didn't know they were considered a vegetable because my nutrition-tracking app has them under fruit and I didn't eat them at all until recently. And avocados weren't discussed in school health class when I was growing up in New England haha

[Emba]

9 hours ago, BaseballandHockey said:

To be clear, I knew that all 4 kids eat quesadillas and baby carrots, so in my mind, those two things met my requirement to make them eat a protein and a veggie.

It would have counted for me, too. 

My personal requirements are two veggies and a protein.  (But the serving sizes aren’t always a full serving) I would count beans as a protein usually, but if we are having something like quesadillas I’ll serve beans on the side to add a little more protein but also be a vegetable. Cheese counts as a protein, and with little kids I honestly don’t worry about the fat.  Sweet potatoes are definitely a veggie to me. Tomato sauce I wouldn’t usually count, or other things that are more of a garnish. I might count it if each portion contained a large serving of the sauce. 
 

my kids are not picky, though. and i do have occasional meals like beans and corn bread where beans are the only vegetable and protein, but not more than once a week. And I serve baby carrots with basically every meal.

[wendyroo]

So if the only green vegetable the girls will eat is peas, then is that what BIL wants? Does he want them to consume peas with their dinner each night? Because, really, in the spirit of supporting his parenting goals, I would probably just go with that. Peas are cheap and easy.

Not to say that everyone needs to eat peas every night, obviously there can be other veggie choices, but if plunking some peas on their plates makes him more comfortable about their nutritional intake, that seems pretty easy.

Your main goal for your kids is food variety, but it sounds like his high priority for his kids is getting specific nutrients into them at certain intervals.

[Pam in CT]

re enough about varieties of food nutrition, let's talk about varieties of food COLORS

4 hours ago, Melissa in Australia said:

I make over half of the plate  vegetables. 5 or more vegetables is preferred, but sometimes it is less. I try to have 3 different colors. purple is desirable for the antioxidants. I have one type of meat the size of the  palm of the hand of the person who is eating it. And one grain or starch , like rice or potatoes.

example. tonight we had beef sausages, fresh garden salad, boiled beetroot, carrots, mushrooms, zucchini and onions, cherry tomatoes and  potato 

yesterday we had chicken, sweet potato, fresh green beans, red cabbage, carrots, cucumber and potato 

milk is consumed at snack time and after eating dinner if someone is still hungry.

 

YES!!!!! Separated at birth!  I've never "met" anyone else who focuses on food colors!!!

Do you also choose your plates, based on what color the food is? 

That's where *I* have to bite my tongue and dial back on the micromanagement impulse.  No no nooooo not the *white* plates, we're having pasta with alfredo sauce, take the blue ones or the greeeeeeeeeen!

[Familia]

13 hours ago, BaseballandHockey said:

 

Tomato based sauce (e.g. marinara or bolognese or pizza sauce) (veggie or not?) For my own lunch, I’d consider this a slight nutritional veggie, but slight, and I wouldn’t count it as veggie for dinner.

Sweet potatoes in various formats (veggie or not?) Veggie (lots of phytochemicals there!)

Black beans, lentils, chickpeas, soy butter  (veggie? protein?  neither? both?) Protein...soy butter would simply be a fat.  Oh...do they make ‘soy butter’ like peanut butter?  Never heard of it!  if that is the case (rather than a cooking fat) I would count it as a protein.

Cheese as part of a dish (e.g. pizza, ravioli, quesadilla) Protein

So, what says the hive?  (fwiw, I am a dietitian and think I fed my family healthily and moderately)

ETA - @BaseballandHockey reading the rest of the story just now, instead of just answering the questions, I can see what a health attitude you have for feeding your children, IMO!  Hope this soon calms down, and you all can have peace with it - you are definitely doing a great job feeding everyone.  

Edited December 17, 2020 by Familia

[Drama Llama]

....

Edited December 19, 2020 by BaseballandHockey

[Drama Llama]

...

Edited December 19, 2020 by BaseballandHockey

[catz]

Just as an aside, I always made quick homemade marinara with grated onions, peppers, even carrots cooked into it and I would be comfortable with that as a veggie.  Not that we didn’t ever use a jar of sauce.  I just think there is nothing wrong with counting that as a veggie for a healthy kid.  Especially if it’s not highly processed, high sodium, high sugar.  I also wouldn’t consider canned tomatoes as processed unless there was a lot of extra stuff in there.  I know tomatoes are technically fruit but I think it’s a good thing if a healthy kid can eat a red sauce and acquire a taste with a number of flavors in there over time.  This is how we eventually introduced my kids to curries, etc which they love now.  . 
 

I always thought about what my kids ate over a week and not a meal or even a day.  I do find it a bit odd he is trying to micromanage so much and I’d think he had other struggles manifesting like this.  If having a few standbys at the ready for his kids keeps the peace I think that is fair.  Your meal sounded great to me.  I’ve always fed my family more like you.  I hope you come up with a good compromise.  
 

eta 8 always thought about color groupings too.   

Edited December 17, 2020 by FuzzyCatz

[BeachGal]

We are purple eaters here, too. Purple veggies and fruits are full of anthocyanins which are a type of flavonoid which have all kinds of benefits. In Singapore they’ve even developed a purple bread that has a lower glycemic index and causes less of a spike in blood glucose.

https://www.todaysdietitian.com/newarchives/0716p18.shtml

https://www.cnn.com/2016/03/17/health/purple-bread/index.html