What about visitors?

[sangtarah]

My mom really wants to come see us next week, before July. She brings it up at every phone call and has for months. They are in FL, we are in Midwest. I want to see her, but don’t want her contracting COVID while traveling or bringing it to us. She isn’t wearing masks in FL for errands, etc, and generally doesn’t think COVID is a big deal. None of my FL family think it is a big deal. I think it’s a big deal, but I have asthma, have kids with asthma and autoimmune conditions, and we have been super careful about exposure. (Dh tries his best, but has to work and is around many folks there - they all mask and try to keep distance if possible.)

She says she will mask for the flight, douse herself in sanitizer, etc, and be extra-super careful. Dh and I think she would try, but would end up taking the mask off, etc. (she’s not a germaphobe, LOL) 

I’m not sure I’m comfortable with her flying for those reasons, but the other alternative she gave is to come drive out in August - then it would be her, my dad, grandma, and two big dogs. I’m about to give in just out of exhaustion and being worn down.

I know there are widely varying opinions, but I really just need measurable risk analysis when thinking this through. 🤪😷 which isn’t likely, but thought talking about it might help. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

How old is your mom?

[prairiewindmomma]

I would be comfortable with that only if:

1. She kept herself at home for a couple of weeks before coming.

2. She drove out.

3. She left the big dogs at home.

My family that lives in the same town are all in a bubble together. They all stayed home for three weeks without contact to make sure they were safe, and then are mixing only with each other. When they have to run errands, they wear masks, but are still mostly staying at home. I would totally be fine with being part of their bubble.  I'm totally not ok with seeing other family who are not wearing masks, mixing in large crowds regularly, and going multiple places in a day on a regular basis for shopping/restaurants/whatever.

[PeterPan]

If it's about *your* risk, that's your choice. I decided that if it was about my mom's risk, then it was *her* choice. 

Does your state have access to the new meds if you were to get sick? Are your death rates remaining low? To me, my own concern has gone down (I have asthma too) because our state has access to the new meds and has very low death rates.

So I invited my mom to visit us two weeks ago and we had a nice visit. But I told her straight and 20 times over, till it really sank in, that SHE WAS COMING ON HER RECOGNIZANCE. I would take ZERO RESPONSIBILITY for her getting sick. I could not guarantee she would not get sick from us or get sick on the way here, and that coming was HER CHOICE. And to me, if someone chooses and is willing to live with the consequences/outcome, that's ok to me. You can also get sick where you are.

We stayed outside more. We also tested oxygen levels leading up to it and were not running fevers. Everything was fine, we had a nice visit.

Edited June 15, 2020 by PeterPan

[Tanaqui]

No. Just no, no, no. If she doesn't want to take care of her own health you can't make her, but that doesn't mean she should expose you and your husband and children to illness.

I can give you my advice, but it's a bit of a nuclear option: The next time she brings up a visit, tell her "Mom, I already said no and I don't want to discuss it anymore" and then, when she tries to discuss it, move straight to "Well, it was nice talking to you, I'll be sure to call next week!" and hang up. And every time thereafter when she brings it up, end the conversation and hang up (and do NOT pick up the phone or respond to texts or emails about your behavior. Also do not discuss any of this with anybody else she might send to call you.)

No means no.

[sangtarah]

7 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

How old is your mom?

She’s 66.

[PeterPan]

Ok, this is just a suggestion, but what you might do, if you feel it's about *your* risk, is think about what you can do to minimize *your* risk. I would not want to be in the position of saying no to my mother and then realizing a year later she has Alzheimers or is gone or some other thing. Well actually my mother is losing her memory, sigh. But I *can't* see my Dad and that skews things too.

So anyways, you could

-yes to a mask while flying in. I wouldn't ask for the driving because that's a pain in the butt and sounds like it's more trouble for her.

-HOTEL. She stays at a hotel.

-OUTSIDE visits. You can even wear masks if you want. And decide about hugs. 

There's enough data on safety now you could probably figure out something if the issue is your safety.

[MEmama]

1 minute ago, Tanaqui said:

No. Just no, no, no. If she doesn't want to take care of her own health you can't make her, but that doesn't mean she should expose you and your husband and children to illness.

I can give you my advice, but it's a bit of a nuclear option: The next time she brings up a visit, tell her "Mom, I already said no and I don't want to discuss it anymore" and then, when she tries to discuss it, move straight to "Well, it was nice talking to you, I'll be sure to call next week!" and hang up. And every time thereafter when she brings it up, end the conversation and hang up (and do NOT pick up the phone or respond to texts or emails about your behavior. Also do not discuss any of this with anybody else she might send to call you.)

No means no.

This.

My in-laws are pressuring us to meet them in Ohio (about half way between us and them) this summer. They take zero precautions despite being very high risk and refuse to understand why we aren’t travelling this summer.

DH has stood firm. It’s hard, but honestly, this is their issue and their problem, not yours. Treat them accordingly.

[PeterPan]

1 minute ago, sangtarah said:

She’s 66.

Oh mercy, she's barely in the high risk category. No wonder she's not acting worried. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

3 minutes ago, sangtarah said:

She’s 66.

I wouldn't worry so much about a 66 year old. 

[sangtarah]

12 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

If it's about *your* risk, that's your choice. I decided that if it was about my mom's risk, then it was *her* choice. 

Does your state have access to the new meds if you were to get sick? Are your death rates remaining low? To me, my own concern has gone down (I have asthma too) because our state has access to the new meds and has very low death rates.

So I invited my mom to visit us two weeks ago and we had a nice visit. But I told her straight and 20 times over, till it really sank in, that SHE WAS COMING ON HER RECOGNIZANCE. I would take ZERO RESPONSIBILITY for her getting sick. I could not guarantee she would not get sick from us or get sick on the way here, and that coming was HER CHOICE. And to me, if someone chooses and is willing to live with the consequences/outcome, that's ok to me. You can also get sick where you are.

We followed the laws and stayed outside more. We also tested oxygen levels leading up to it and were not running fevers. Everything was fine, we had a nice visit.

What new meds? 
Our death is low because the community transmission is just picking up. Here in Omaha the care is exceptional, but that doesn’t mean I want to test it, LOL. Our Nebraska Med Drs are urging caution, and saying most patients that are admitted stay for several weeks, which I don’t have time for.
Also, we had a few cases of the inflammatory syndrome in Pediatric patients in the last two weeks, so the virus is out there making the rounds. 

As for the hotel suggestion, just no. She would never go for that. 

Edited June 15, 2020 by sangtarah
Added info about cases

[katilac]

1 minute ago, PeterPan said:

Oh mercy, she's barely in the high risk category. No wonder she's not acting worried. 

Her grandchildren are higher risk, she should maybe worry about that. 

[Pawz4me]

I think you should do what you think is best for you and your kids and her feelings can go to you-know-where.

This situation reminds me of when youngest DS was a toddler and diagnosed with asthma. I loved my mom dearly, and she loved her grandkids dearly. But she smoked. And I told her as kindly but as firmly as I could that she'd either quit or she'd never see him. And I absolutely meant it, and she knew I meant it. She quit. If your mom wants to see you and your family she should be willing to spend a couple of weeks self isolating as much as possible, wearing a mask and take ALL precautions while traveling. If she won't do that, or if you don't trust her to do it . . . I say your obligation is to yourself and your kids. And there does NOT have to be any alternative here that you don't totally agree to. Period.

[bolt.]

I'd just say, "I'm sorry, but we just aren't having any guests this summer, or making any solid plans beyond that. There's too much we don't know about the pandemic. I know that's not what you wanted to hear, but I just need you to know, so you won't keep trying to make plans."

[DawnM]

Well, I flew from NC to NV during Covid, and stayed with a friend while there.

My dad just moved to NC from AZ last week and flew across the country and we have him over and visit him.  He doesn't wear a mask and won't when he goes out.  He is 85.

 

[matrips]

3 hours ago, sangtarah said:

My mom really wants to come see us next week, before July. She brings it up at every phone call and has for months. They are in FL, we are in Midwest. I want to see her, but don’t want her contracting COVID while traveling or bringing it to us. She isn’t wearing masks in FL for errands, etc, and generally doesn’t think COVID is a big deal. None of my FL family think it is a big deal. I think it’s a big deal, but I have asthma, have kids with asthma and autoimmune conditions, and we have been super careful about exposure. (Dh tries his best, but has to work and is around many folks there - they all mask and try to keep distance if possible.)

She says she will mask for the flight, douse herself in sanitizer, etc, and be extra-super careful. Dh and I think she would try, but would end up taking the mask off, etc. (she’s not a germaphobe, LOL) 

I’m not sure I’m comfortable with her flying for those reasons, but the other alternative she gave is to come drive out in August - then it would be her, my dad, grandma, and two big dogs. I’m about to give in just out of exhaustion and being worn down.

I know there are widely varying opinions, but I really just need measurable risk analysis when thinking this through. 🤪😷 which isn’t likely, but thought talking about it might help. 

I’d be okay if she came and stayed in a hotel and we visited outside.  Backyard, park, picnics, etc. 

[ktgrok]

5 hours ago, PeterPan said:

If it's about *your* risk, that's your choice. I decided that if it was about my mom's risk, then it was *her* choice. 

Does your state have access to the new meds if you were to get sick? Are your death rates remaining low? To me, my own concern has gone down (I have asthma too) because our state has access to the new meds and has very low death rates.

So I invited my mom to visit us two weeks ago and we had a nice visit. But I told her straight and 20 times over, till it really sank in, that SHE WAS COMING ON HER RECOGNIZANCE. I would take ZERO RESPONSIBILITY for her getting sick. I could not guarantee she would not get sick from us or get sick on the way here, and that coming was HER CHOICE. And to me, if someone chooses and is willing to live with the consequences/outcome, that's ok to me. You can also get sick where you are.

We stayed outside more. We also tested oxygen levels leading up to it and were not running fevers. Everything was fine, we had a nice visit.

What new meds are you talking about?

I have not seen a single doctor who has treated COVID patients say this is any less deadly than it was. 

Being under 65 does not mean you won't end up in the hospital - most patients in the hospital here are under age 65.

She has children with an autoimmune condition, and she and one child have asthma, and Florida cases are going up and her mom is not masking. 

And her mom won't stay at a hotel. 

[Shoeless]

We're not visiting people, nor are we hosting visitors.  Not even if they stay in a hotel.  Visits involve several hours on a plane or a multi-day car ride. My husband is diabetic and has high blood pressure. I'm not interested in playing the odds with his health to cure someone else's cabin fever.  Plus, I don't have any relatives or in-laws near me to take care of DS11 if DH and I got sick.   

None of my relatives, except one sister, are being careful and they all have high risk people in their homes.  We've had to have a few very tough conversations with relatives about how *if* they continue with cross-country vacation plans and not being careful, and *if* they get sick, we will not be available to help.  Furthermore, if they got sick and *if* the worst came to pass, we will not be attending any funerals.       

[Pen]

 

 

11 hours ago, sangtarah said:

the other alternative she gave is to come drive out in August - then it would be her, my dad, grandma, and two big dogs. I’m about to give in just out of exhaustion and being worn down.

 

I might be ok with this if they were all to quarantine for two weeks in before the trip  — and use great care while on the trip.   But from what you said, probably you can’t count on that. 

Better if the people stayed at a motel or similar at my end.  Big dogs could stay with me if friendly 😊 .  And social could be outdoors. 

Or, say no, and blame it on family medical conditions and that you have to follow guidelines and mostly isolate. 

 

[KungFuPanda]

23 hours ago, sangtarah said:

My mom really wants to come see us next week, before July. She brings it up at every phone call and has for months. They are in FL, we are in Midwest. I want to see her, but don’t want her contracting COVID while traveling or bringing it to us. She isn’t wearing masks in FL for errands, etc, and generally doesn’t think COVID is a big deal. None of my FL family think it is a big deal. I think it’s a big deal, but I have asthma, have kids with asthma and autoimmune conditions, and we have been super careful about exposure. (Dh tries his best, but has to work and is around many folks there - they all mask and try to keep distance if possible.)

She says she will mask for the flight, douse herself in sanitizer, etc, and be extra-super careful. Dh and I think she would try, but would end up taking the mask off, etc. (she’s not a germaphobe, LOL) 

I’m not sure I’m comfortable with her flying for those reasons, but the other alternative she gave is to come drive out in August - then it would be her, my dad, grandma, and two big dogs. I’m about to give in just out of exhaustion and being worn down.

I know there are widely varying opinions, but I really just need measurable risk analysis when thinking this through. 🤪😷 which isn’t likely, but thought talking about it might help. 

I also have relatives who don’t believe the risk is real pressing for a visit. It’s hard, but the answer is no. I absolutely cannot trust them to quarantine for two weeks. I love them, but the risk is too great for my son. I won’t risk him dying alone in a hospital because I’ve grown weary of fending them off. 

[katilac]

23 hours ago, PeterPan said:

Does your state have access to the new meds if you were to get sick?  

What new meds? 

23 hours ago, bolt. said:

I'd just say, "I'm sorry, but we just aren't having any guests this summer, or making any solid plans beyond that. There's too much we don't know about the pandemic. I know that's not what you wanted to hear, but I just need you to know, so you won't keep trying to make plans."

This. You need to quit having the conversation. Tell them to talk to you in September. 

[sangtarah]

This morning I talked to her and said I’d be okay with an August visit. 
This afternoon she called to say she could hop on a plane and be here Sunday morning, in time for dd’s birthday - the REAL reason for her trip. 
She also commented that she won’t be able to isolate for 1 or 2 weeks before she visits at any time. In fact, she’ll probably be busier before the August trip than she has been now. 
Dh thinks she should come. He accepts that it is risky. He also wants to go see his family the week of July 13th in CO, and he feels that isn’t too risky either. 
 

I’m stuck in a hard place. I have SO missed my Mom. I love my Mom. I want her to magically appear! 🥰
But I’m not a betting person, and this is a pretty large wager.

*she would fly out of Sanford airport (near Orlando)

Edited June 18, 2020 by sangtarah
Added airport info

[sassenach]

On 6/15/2020 at 11:14 AM, PeterPan said:

If it's about *your* risk, that's your choice. I decided that if it was about my mom's risk, then it was *her* choice. 

 

This is where we landed with my FIL. He decided he wanted to come up for a visit and we're not going to tell him no. There's not a lot of years left. I was honestly more worried about him driving than the covid risk. While he was here, he coughed all the time without covering his mouth and that did made me twitch. I didn't let him around ds.

[bolt.]

I'd be saying a flat "no" to all three possibilities (including the August visit). I'm good with apologizing, I'm not happy to disappoint people, and I can get used to looking like the bad guy. What I can't do is expose my loved ones to a deadly virus: or reward them for doing so themselves. That's not my job, and I'm not going to do it. I don't think you should either.

[sassenach]

12 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

Yeah, how do you feel? It sounds like she's fine with the risk and that's on her. But how you feel is something that may not change no matter what she does. 

I've been following the articles on masks and I didn't come across this statistic myself, but ds told me a huge percentage of people are using masks incorrectly. Well, some of my coworkers returned to the office. I logged into a meeting remotely and saw 1/2 in masks and a couple wearing masks were fiddling with them, holding their chin with their hand while t hey wore the mask, etc. I can't even watch Mass on tv/facebook without cringing! The lecturer took his mask off to speak, set it down face down on the lecturn, put it back on before returning to his seat and didn't seem too careful about where he touched it. So I don't even know how to feel about the masks... learn how to use them!! lol

I did adjust mine a little bit today, but tried to do so from the straps, not the front. I'm getting less and less concerned about surface transfer, though. Just wash your hands before you touch your face.

I went out with a friend yesterday and she literally did not stop touching her mask. Just rubbed her whole hand all over it non stop. I sympathize because it turns out that I'm a face toucher, but I'm retraining myself. 

[ktgrok]

59 minutes ago, sangtarah said:

This morning I talked to her and said I’d be okay with an August visit. 
This afternoon she called to say she could hop on a plane and be here Sunday morning, in time for dd’s birthday - the REAL reason for her trip. 
She also commented that she won’t be able to isolate for 1 or 2 weeks before she visits at any time. In fact, she’ll probably be busier before the August trip than she has been now. 
Dh thinks she should come. He accepts that it is risky. He also wants to go see his family the week of July 13th in CO, and he feels that isn’t too risky either. 
 

I’m stuck in a hard place. I have SO missed my Mom. I love my Mom. I want her to magically appear! 🥰
But I’m not a betting person, and this is a pretty large wager.

*she would fly out of Sanford airport (near Orlando)

Um - hell no. Florida had a 12% positive test rate yesterday! And Orange County is one of the areas seeing the biggest spike. No way do you want to import this disaster to your high risk family!

Tell her that you spoke with your child's doctor, and they advised no visitors yet. (I'll pretend to be a doctor if it helps)

[katilac]

9 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

Um - hell no. Florida had a 12% positive test rate yesterday! And Orange County is one of the areas seeing the biggest spike. No way do you want to import this disaster to your high risk family!

I just saw that Orange County has made masks mandatory, albeit with no plans of how to enforce it. I do think a lot of people go along with 'mandatory' though, so it should be an improvement. 

[ktgrok]

29 minutes ago, katilac said:

I just saw that Orange County has made masks mandatory, albeit with no plans of how to enforce it. I do think a lot of people go along with 'mandatory' though, so it should be an improvement. 

I'm praying that is true. And hopeful Seminole County does the same...we all drive back and forth through both those counties all the time. 

[ktgrok]

Palm Beach County has some hospitals reporting no ICU beds left. These are not rural hospitals. I was born at Palm Beach Gardens Medical Center, I attended my best friend's birth at Wellington Regional, and I took birthing classes when pregnant with my oldest at Palms West. 

As Palm Beach County experienced a jump in new coronavirus cases Thursday, some county hospitals reported their intensive care beds are completely full.

Florida’s Agency for Health Care Administration tracks the number of hospital beds available countywide and shows Palm Beach County overall has 74% of its 319 beds occupied. But looking closer at individual hospitals in the county, Palm Beach Gardens Medical Center, Palms West Hospital, and Wellington Regional Medical Center have few or no adult ICU beds available, according to the AHCA data.

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/coronavirus/fl-ne-palm-beach-icu-20200618-qz6ipoqvmff5fcipqhsdbmhqbm-story.html

 

[Pen]

1 hour ago, kand said:

I and a couple other people have asked for clarification on what these new meds are several times, but no answer. Maybe she has me on ignore? 🤷‍♀️

 

I did not write about that, but am guessing maybe it  would be referring to dexamethazone?  It isn’t a new med, but newly is showing benefits in CV19.

 

if “new” is significant maybe they mean the Gilead antiviral Remdesivir or whatever it’s called? 

[Pen]

4 hours ago, kand said:

Right, it wasn't you. It's been being said here since before the dexamethazone study was released (plus the dexamethasone is only helpful for those on ventilation, so it wouldn't make sense to be recommending it as a cureall for the general public). Possibly it's Remdesivir, though again, not a magic bullet. Unfortunately, we haven't discovered one of those yet.

 

If anyone thinks there’s a cure drug at this point, afaik they are wrong. But if they could clarify in case they are aware of something that I am not, that would be helpful!!!

[PrincessMommy]

Could you have an outdoor meeting?  Maybe sit 6 feet apart on the lawn.  When my dh visits his mom about 40 mins away, they sit outside on the deck and chat 6 feet apart.  

I think at this point you'll need to be honest with your mom and tell her you are more concerned about the virus and its effects specifically on your family (asthma) and you'd like to see her but there are parameters.