Would you have your dd take a Government course with a teacher on the polar opposite political spectrum?

[...................]

Teacher is SUPER nice, super "inclusive" to use a popular word, very experienced and extremely organized. I talked with her at length about how she integrates students with dyslexia into her class, and her test methods and teaching methods, and also sat in on one of her current courses.

I truly believe the teacher will try to keep her political beliefs out of it, and that she will be truly respectful and kind to us for having polar opposite thoughts/beliefs.  (aka one of us believes 100% in socialism/Bernie Sanders supporter and the other one is Republican/small government with some Libertarian ideas!) 

My dd doesn't want to take her class next year because of the other STUDENTS. Everyone in our area assumes 100% that everyone else is of the same political beliefs.  THey are 100% shocked when anyone expresses anything differently, so it's very likely that the kids will offer up their opinions, waiting for the entire class to nod and agree.  At which point my dd will be very likely to speak up with a different viewpoint, and then she is afraid the kids will hate her.

Now, I think she should take the class and either learn to keep her mouth quiet, or learn to take the heat.  Because in real life that's kind of what happens, even at work.  The class is well organized, the teacher is fair and very organized and it's at the co-op where she knows a lot of people.

What would you do?

 

 

[SeaConquest]

I wouldn't. I went to law school where my political views at the time were in the minority and it became very exhausting. It felt like I was constantly having to defend every straw man argument in every hypothetical -- even those that didn't actually represent my own views. Mind you, I was doing that as a [relatively] secure adult. I cannot imagine being put in that position in high school. I mean, unless she relishes being the underdog and is gunning for a fight, I would prefer to be among like-minded, supportive peers.

ETA: For whatever it is worth, I will also add that, in the last 15+ years since graduation, I have been (mostly) won over by my classmates' POV. 

Edited March 8, 2019 by SeaConquest

[BusyMom5]

No, I would not have my DD take this class at a co-op.  I am wondering if I will allow it even at our CC due to our views being pretty much polar opposite the loud (for our area) majority.  I remember similar classes at my local high school, and even then the teachers did infuse the class with their ideology.  If I did have DD take it (at CC), I would be prepared to discuss everything happening in class with her.  I do not hide my beliefs, nor the other sides'- because I believe there are usually truths in all opinions.  People with opposing views (usually) have valid reasons for those views.  I try very hard to get my DD to look at all sides.  THat said, I cannot imagine that a co-op teacher would do this in the classroom.  

[Reefgazer]

No, I would not.  I would expose the student to other points of view, but not as the base presentation.

[mazakaal]

Honestly, I think it really depends on your dd, her personality, how difficult it would be to keep her mouth shut to avoid the confrontation, and how mature she is to brush off the differing beliefs of others. My ds took a course on American history and government in a very conservative environment. He had spent the majority of his life living outside the US and therefore had a very different point of view about America and its assumed position as the 'greatest country in the world' than his classmates. He didn't mind speaking his mind and taking the heat from the other students, and they were actually pretty good, enjoying healthy debate and befriending him in spite of his point of view. But it could have gone horribly wrong if he had been different or if the other students had been different.

So, unfortunately, there is no easy yes or no answer to this. Only you know your dd and the class that she would be going into. 

[Arcadia]

Is the class online or in person? My family lean neither left nor right and my oldest had a republican bashing economics teacher. The other kids in the class are neutral as well so did not join in the president bashing jokes (which was like once every class session). I overheard and did gave the teacher the “bad taste joke” look and he toned down.  That was another reason for us to avoid the public high school in case my kids get marked down by teachers for not being liberal enough or targeted by their classmates’ parents. 

[EKS]

I absolutely would have her take the class.  Then each evening, you and she can talk about what was discussed in class.  She may be surprised to find that the "other side" has some valid points, regardless of the side she is on right now.  And this sort of broadening of perspective is always a good thing IMO.

[Mom0012]

If I felt the teacher would be fair, I’d be fine with her taking the class.  Would I make her take it if she didn’t feel comfortable about it?  Probably not.  I’d likely find something she was more interested in doing.  Any chance she’d be surprised to find that some of her classmates share her views?  My ds has been pleased to unexpectedly find some like-minded thinkers in his classes.

[RootAnn]

If my kid would be enriched by the learning in this class, sure.

Is this the co-op with the kids who don't do their homework or really participate? That would be a reason I wouldn't have my kid take the class. I would not enjoy being surrounded by apathetic kids who don't do the work. I doubt my kids want to be bothered by that environment either.

[Roadrunner]

It depends on the severity of the situation. In most cases I wouldn’t mind having a classroom full of kids with opposing viewpoints, but if it degenerates into “make fun” sessions of the other side on a weekly basis, then I would not. Now I would think the teacher wouldn’t allow the latter.

my kid  has been taking classes from a religious provider where everybody but him is religious. He hasn’t had many problems. There are times he says he isn’t sure if it’s OK to speak his mind. He had some interesting things to say in Milton for example, which you can imagine were very, very different from others in the class but he chickened out and wouldn’t share. I think he is overthinking sometimes, but overall it has been a good experience.

[...................]

Thank you for all of your thoughts! They were definitely helpful!

After reading the thread I am leaning toward her not taking it....but still not sure:

1.  My dd is not as mature as say, my son, in understanding other's beliefs have good reasons behind them...but she is not totally immature in this area either.  I think she could be very understanding of others so in that respect she should take the class...

BUT

2.  However, my dd gets VERY upset about others targeting her, and / or making her the butt of a joke.  She has been the victim of bullying several times, and she's on the sensitive side, so even when kids aren't actually bullying her, she doesn't do a good job of laughing along/laughing it off if someone throws a jibe her way.  

3.  Someone mentioned they wouldn't "make" her take the class...She doesn't want to take the class and really finds the teacher a little bit on the edge of insufferable.  Her political and social views are so confused, inconsistent that even without the fact that she's on the polar opposite of the political spectrum, my dd sees her as a bit of a "flake" in her personal thought life....

4.  One of the big things my dd needs to learn is to STICK WITH classes/academics/imperfect situations and not be dramatic, learn to communicate, do her best, get through it and get to the END....so on one hand I see this as a great opportunity to test those sticktoitiveness skills and the maturity she's been working on, but on the other hand, I don't want to set her up for failure because I really, really need her to learn to work with a situation and stay with it (academically, she doesn't have an issue otherwise).

Oh Root-yes different co-op which in middle grades has that issue but not so much in high school...  generally speaking the certified a-g high school classes fill up with mostly college -bound kids who actually do their work.  So as the co=op has added more and more certified classes with serious syllables and teachers, it has attracted a more hard working group of kids.  There are always a small number who do nothing- but at anywhere from 450.00 to 750.00 per semester, even with funding from a charter school, the kids mostly come from parents who have follow-through.  So it's been a lot better this year. 

Edited March 9, 2019 by Calming Tea

[Jackie]

I wouldn’t. It really is exhausting to defend your position all the time, plus as a teenager she is likely to be less experienced in doing so. If the teacher and the vast majority of students hold the same beliefs, I would find it hard to believe that those beliefs won’t permeate the course. If I have to spend every evening discussing the class topics with my child, then it’s not really going to save me the time and energy that I’m looking for when I outsource a class.

And I’d fight the “stick to it” battle with something the kid at least wants to stick to at the outset.

[fourisenough]

Nope.

[Farrar]

I really think it depends. I don't think democratic socialism and most American libertarians are actually polar opposites by today's standards. I think there are much more extreme views on both sides at this point.

A decade ago, I would have said yes, do it. Now, I think it's possible that your dd would be mocked, like you fear.

[J-rap]

It would depend on her character.  If she seems like a kind, caring, dedicated, honest, respectful, humble person, then I generally wouldn't have a problem with opposing beliefs. 

[Frances]

We did it many years ago during an election year, and overall, I think it was a good experience. 

Edited March 9, 2019 by Frances

[madteaparty]

Nope, even though I do have my kid in a class like roadrunner describes. It seems to be a bit different with a government class.

My other issue is that there seems to be some general misunderstanding about terms that gets perpetuated over and over again (I.e Bernie is not socialist, for example, not in the proper sense of the word). I want to do a mini political history or political science unit with DS because I don’t think some of it is being taught properly. 

Edited March 9, 2019 by madteaparty

[Arcadia]

11 hours ago, Calming Tea said:

4.  One of the big things my dd needs to learn is to STICK WITH classes/academics/imperfect situations and not be dramatic, learn to communicate, do her best, get through it and get to the END....so on one hand I see this as a great opportunity to test those sticktoitiveness skills and the maturity she's been working on, but on the other hand, I don't want to set her up for failure because I really, really need her to learn to work with a situation and stay with it (academically, she doesn't have an issue otherwise).

 

My kids do that in online classes. It is easier to scaffold the coping skills in an online class then in a brick and mortar class. For one thing I could see the recorded live class sessions and read the class forums, and not rely on he say she say scenarios. The brick and mortar teacher could be fantastic with great classroom management skills but I do worry about before class and after class “mocking” for my DS13 especially with him being small size for his age.

[katilac]

At that age, I would let her decide for herself. She's old enough to have a lot of input into the specifics of her education. There will be plenty of opportunities along the way to learn how to stay quiet or take the heat, and recognizing which classes you will or will not do well in is a skill, too. Also, I would not want to start off the year with a class that she dreads and is resentful about taking. 

 

[SeaConquest]

13 hours ago, Farrar said:

I really think it depends. I don't think democratic socialism and most American libertarians are actually polar opposites by today's standards. I think there are much more extreme views on both sides at this point.

A decade ago, I would have said yes, do it. Now, I think it's possible that your dd would be mocked, like you fear.

 

This is exactly my concern. We aren't talking 10 years ago. We are talking about throwing a high schooler into the snake's pit that is today's current political climate, which (with all due apologies to the lovely snakes out there) is utterly venomous. You mentioned a-g, so we are talking California. So, this is either a Bernie kid with a bunch of Trumpists or a Trumpist kid with a bunch of Bernie supporters. Either way, ugh, ugh, ugh, ugh. 

I used to joke with people that I was admitted to Stanford Law School because of affirmative action -- I was a conservative female. I was co-President of the Federalist Society during my tenure. But, as Farrar points out, I was a classical libertarian, which actually had a lot more in common with my liberal friends than many realized at first blush. But, as economic inequality has increased, a lot of my hard core libertarian positions have softened over the years (I went to a very fiscally conservative ugrad at Claremont McKenna, so a very Chicago School of Econ informed my early years). Anyway, all of that to say my classmates and I were able to discuss our political/legal philosophy (as adults) having 1) fairly extensive previous educational backgrounds (many people with grad degrees before going to law school) and 2) life experience (many people with significant work experience before going to law school), and it was still hard/lonely/isolating to be in the minority. Very hard/lonely/isolating. And Stanford attracts a fairly mellow/friendly bunch, as far as law students go, which is probably why I was lucky to have any friends at all. Not sure that would be true today there for the MAGA crowd.

 

[J-rap]

We're talking high school, right?  A couple of my kids ended up taking government class in a public school setting.  I know students came from all backgrounds in that class.  I know the teacher personally (small town and all), and know his views quite well.  (Some I completely agree with, some I strongly oppose.)  He never, ever let on his personal beliefs in class, or led the class a certain direction.  I'd expect that from anyone teaching government at the high school level.  Maybe I'm naive.

[kbutton]

16 hours ago, Calming Tea said:

3.  Someone mentioned they wouldn't "make" her take the class...She doesn't want to take the class and really finds the teacher a little bit on the edge of insufferable.  Her political and social views are so confused, inconsistent that even without the fact that she's on the polar opposite of the political spectrum, my dd sees her as a bit of a "flake" in her personal thought life....

This information would make me say no. 

1 hour ago, SeaConquest said:

But, as Farrar points out, I was a classical libertarian, which actually had a lot more in common with my liberal friends than many realized at first blush.

My first job in the real world was in an environment where 90% of the employees had worked together for up to two+ decades. Lots of geeky people who had wide and deep interests. At some point, they had exhausted many "polite" topics, so there were lots of friendly political discussions. There were some very interesting contrasts and overlaps between these groups of people at that point, and I learned a lot. I think that is rare in this climate. 

The daughter is not going into this with any kind of positive experience or even a hope of one from her own personal POV and preferences, so I would not do this.

I would, under some circumstances, prefer this situation to one in which my student was with "close enough" political views for some important distinctions to be lost--there are people more like me politically whose views scare me far, far more than people with supposedly opposite views. I think in those environments, it's so hard to discuss the subtle distinctions--"You know we espouse view x, but not y, and that in class, your teacher is really saying y, but it sounds like x to you, right--they are purposefully glossing over that?" That would drive me nuts, and it is sometimes harder for people "almost" like you in viewpoint to tolerate those differences than it is for someone very different to live and let live. (Or at least it used to be.)

[Roadrunner]

I get everybody’s concerns, but it’s a class with a syllabus that covers specific and fascinating topics. This isn’t a  Bernie/Trump debate class. A good teacher should be able to teach this class without any meltdowns. Sure, maybe there will be debates about state versus federal rights along other topics that happen to be often split by party lines, but those are things I would rather debate with somebody on the opposite side than a person who agrees with me. Basically I think if the teacher is good, she could run this class without any disrespect shown to anybody. it’s worth going and talking to her prior to signing up and see what she says. 

[Pen]

Yes.  

I went to more than one high school with a range of political perspectives from John Burch/Ayn Rand to socialist leaning.  I think it was useful perspective.  Although when teachers tried to get us signed up as belonging to organizations I think it went too far—though still useful to encounter that when there were parents to help with guidance.

[Pen]

4 hours ago, SeaConquest said:

 

This is exactly my concern. We aren't talking 10 years ago. We are talking about throwing a high schooler into the snake's pit that is today's current political climate, which (with all due apologies to the lovely snakes out there) is utterly venomous. You mentioned a-g, so we are talking California. So, this is either a Bernie kid with a bunch of Trumpists or a Trumpist kid with a bunch of Bernie supporters. Either way, ugh, ugh, ugh, ugh. 

 

 

That’s true.  Very polarized and venemous...with the differences when seen from perspective of another country, sometimes not all that much.

But I’m not sure that separation of youth with divergent opinions is a good idea.  It tends to destroy the whole marketplace of ideas concept and may increase the polarization and venom even more in future.  While learning to discuss things at teen level may help.

My son is in a public school in rural Oregon sort of at a political edge where there are kids from families who are in each of the groups you described.  It is true that it isn’t just one child versus the rest, but they seem to be doing much better at managing than their elders.  

It gives me hope.  

[Pen]

How come my autocorrect thinks it’s venemous not venomous?

[Pen]

Btw, if your dd does take the class, I suggest she start by listening and seeking to understand the other side, then gradually insert some of her own different views after showing she understands theirs.  

[...................]

Thanks for all the thoughts! 

My husband and I have talked it out and we’ve decided it would be too much for our daughter at this juncture, and all of that probable burden and stress for no real benefit. 

While I do wish  my dd could spend a little more time with classmates on the other end of the political spectrum, a government class with such a die hard teacher is probably not the place to continue that practice. 

(She has had a good amount of practice since some of these same kids are in her English, ASL and other classes in the past- things have come up and she has voiced her viewpoint respectfully and taken some heat but it was occasional since they weren’t government classes. 😉 

Thanks so much for all of your input. We really need a strong or maybe Honors DL class so I’m off to read the other posts. 🙂