Horrible news. Shooting with many dead at synagogue in Pittsburgh

[unsinkable]

https://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2018/10/27/heavy-police-presence-near-synagogue-in-squirrel-hill/

this is horrible. I don't even know what to say

[Mabelen]

How very sad. Yet another hate crime. ? 

[Catwoman]

Just awful. Those poor people. ?

[Farrar]

The recent rise (or re-emergence, depending on how you look at it) of anti-Semitism in the US is of immense concern to me. This is so tragic.

[Farrar]

46 minutes ago, texasmom33 said:

And outside the US too. It’s scary. 

And it's on both sides of the political spectrum, IME. I really think anti-semitism is one of our big canaries in the coal mine kinds of things. Like, this guy may turn out to be someone with mental illness... but the waters he's swimming in are more hateful toward Jews in terms of the rhetoric that's out there than they were a few years ago. It's scary stuff. And yeah, we're seeing some really bad stuff in Europe. ? 

[Kathy in Richmond]

Awful, horrendous news. I can't even imagine...

I'm not Jewish, but I lived in Squirrel Hill for several years during grad school, and it's one of my favorite places ever. Such a nice, welcoming community.

[TravelingChris]

Yes, just awful. Praying for the victims, families, responders. Jews are being attacked everywhere. And am waiting for copycats too, unfortunately.

[mom2scouts]

2 hours ago, Farrar said:

The recent rise (or re-emergence, depending on how you look at it) of anti-Semitism in the US is of immense concern to me. This is so tragic.

I'm also seeing more anti-Semitism than I remember at any time in my life. My DIL is Jewish, which means my grandchildren will be, so this is especially concerning to me.

[JennyD]

I had my phone off for Shabbat so I didn't hear anything about this -- and nor did anyone else I was with -- until late this afternoon when I brought my kids back to synagogue.  One of my sons said that they had been told that they couldn't go outside because "someone killed a lot of people in a Pittsburgh shul (synagogue) and he's coming here next!"  Apparently the news had gotten through somehow and the kids were not being allowed outside.  I was glad to be able to tell the kids that the gunman had been arrested, at least.

It is just horrible news, although certainly not surprising.  As others have said, anti-Semitism has been on the rise, and mass shootings are apparently just a part of the everyday fabric of American life these days, so it was just a matter of time.  Our synagogue has pretty tight security already  -- a couple of years ago someone shot at the building -- and I am sure that it will get even tighter.

7 hours ago, Farrar said:

And it's on both sides of the political spectrum, IME. I really think anti-semitism is one of our big canaries in the coal mine kinds of things. Like, this guy may turn out to be someone with mental illness... but the waters he's swimming in are more hateful toward Jews in terms of the rhetoric that's out there than they were a few years ago. It's scary stuff. And yeah, we're seeing some really bad stuff in Europe. ? 

 

IMO, the true canary in the coal mine is the virulent anti-immigrant stuff.  I have been Jewish my whole life and things like bomb threats and vandalism have unfortunately been part of American Jewish life for a long time.   The first time I truly felt like I understood how the Holocaust happened, though, was when there were the child separations at the border earlier this year.  Hearing ordinary people justifying this unbelievable cruelty was just stunning to me.  Growing up, we were always told that the Germans were fundamentally anti-Semitic, that there was something in their culture that made them susceptible to Hitler's rhetoric.  Jewish children are no longer told this, of course, and now we understand the Holocaust in the context of other genocides in other places.  But it wasn't until I heard people -- people I knew! -- defending the child separations that I finally got it.  It really can happen here.  And it wouldn't take much at all, even.

 

Edited October 28, 2018 by JennyD

[Carol in Cal.]

Horrible, horrible news.

I hope that Christians everywhere rally to the synogues to bear witness that all Americans must be safe here.

[Frances]

2 hours ago, JennyD said:

I had my phone off for Shabbat so I didn't hear anything about this -- and nor did anyone else I was with -- until late this afternoon when I brought my kids back to synagogue.  One of my sons said that they had been told that they couldn't go outside because "someone killed a lot of people in a Pittsburgh shul (synagogue) and he's coming here next!"  Apparently the news had gotten through somehow and the kids were not being allowed outside.  I was glad to be able to tell the kids that the gunman had been arrested, at least.

It is just horrible news, although certainly not surprising.  As others have said, anti-Semitism has been on the rise, and mass shootings are apparently just a part of the everyday fabric of American life these days, so it was just a matter of time.  Our synagogue has pretty tight security already  -- a couple of years ago someone shot at the building -- and I am sure that it will get even tighter.

 

IMO, the true canary in the coal mine is the virulent anti-immigrant stuff.  I have been Jewish my whole life and things like bomb threats and vandalism have unfortunately been part of American Jewish life for a long time.   The first time I truly felt like I understood how the Holocaust happened, though, was when there were the child separations at the border earlier this year.  Hearing ordinary people justifying this unbelievable cruelty was just stunning to me.  Growing up, we were always told that the Germans were fundamentally anti-Semitic, that there was something in their culture that made them susceptible to Hitler's rhetoric.  Jewish children are no longer told this, of course, and now we understand the Holocaust in the context of other genocides in other places.  But it wasn't until I heard people -- people I knew! -- defending the child separations that I finally got it.  It really can happen here.  And it wouldn't take much at all, even.

 

Unfortunately, since the election but even before the separations at the border, I had said several times to my husband that for the first time, I truly understood how something like the Holocaust happened. Everyday I feel more and more like I’m living in an upside down world where for many the ends now justify any means and people regularly proclaim their morality and righteousness while supporting despicable people and actions. And meanwhile all of the scapegoating is diverting attention from the real villains who continue to concentrate money and power.

[TravelingChris]

This man was not only a Nazi, but a Trump hater too.  Also, while there are some people who are anti-immigrant, everyone I know who supports greater enforcement is also welcoming to legal immigrants.  Furthermore, I never heard anyone support separating children from parents. (of course, I tend to hang around more reasonable people)  It is a sad situation.  But many more children are separated because of jail, prison, hospitalizations, work, deployment, and on and on and on.  

I actually believe that in this country, we actually have overall greater respect for Jewish people than in some other Western countries.  However, the uptake in anti-Jewish crimes after a longer period of calm is troubling.  But the resurgence has been going on for longer in Europe.

[Pen]

Just awful. Would like to say more but cannot. Or at least not yet. 

[Joules]

1 hour ago, TravelingChris said:

I actually believe that in this country, we actually have overall greater respect for Jewish people than in some other Western countries.  However, the uptake in anti-Jewish crimes after a longer period of calm is troubling.  But the resurgence has been going on for longer in Europe.

Overall, the demonization of people based on their religion, race, or ethnicity is becoming more and more acceptable in a society that thought it was past all that after WWII. As we bring that back, anti-Semitism comes along with anti-____.

[goldberry]

This is good to hear:

https://fox4kc.com/2018/10/28/muslim-groups-raise-money-for-pittsburgh-synagogue-shooting-victims/

PITTSBURGH, Pa. — A crowdfunding campaign started by two Muslim groups has raised more than $40,000 for the victims of the shooting at a Pittsburgh synagogue on Saturday.

The campaign on LaunchGood, a Muslim-focused crowdfunding site, reached its $25,000 goal in less than six hours. It will continue to raise money on behalf of the victims.

“The Muslim-American community extends its hands to help the shooting victims, whether it is the injured victims or the Jewish families who have lost loved ones,” the fundraising page reads. “We wish to respond to evil with good, as our faith instructs us, and send a powerful message of compassion through action.”

 

 

 

 

[goldberry]

10 hours ago, TravelingChris said:

 Furthermore, I never heard anyone support separating children from parents. (of course, I tend to hang around more reasonable people) 

 

Chris, I absolutely heard support of this in my circles.  Here is where I think it had people thinking about the Holocaust and the Jews.  Part of the justification for it being okay to separate families was because of seeing these people and families as "other".  They are not American.  Therefore, it was okay to apply a different standard of what is humane treatment.  Whenever you go into that area, you are inching toward something very bad.  There was this comment from Fox News:

“Like it or not, these aren’t our kids,” said Kilmeade on Friday’s episode of the Fox News morning show. “Show them compassion, but it’s not like he’s doing this to the people of Idaho or Texas. These are people from another country and now people are saying that they’re more important than people in our country who are paying taxes and who have needs as well.”

Only, that wasn't the topic, anyone saying they were more important than people in our country. The topic was not about amnesty or about open borders. The topic was whether or not it was humane to separate children from their families at the border.  "It's not like he's doing this to the people of Idaho or Texas"... Many people feel that is a dangerous road, and I agree with them.  FTR, I am not an "open border" supporter.  I grew up in Texas, and saw the real burdens on various systems due to illegal immigration.  But whether we treat people humanely or not is not predicated on whether someone is an American or white or speaks English or is Christian.  Any suggestion otherwise is dangerous.  History has proven it.  

[Twolittleboys]

19 hours ago, JennyD said:

 

 

IMO, the true canary in the coal mine is the virulent anti-immigrant stuff.  I have been Jewish my whole life and things like bomb threats and vandalism have unfortunately been part of American Jewish life for a long time.   The first time I truly felt like I understood how the Holocaust happened, though, was when there were the child separations at the border earlier this year.  Hearing ordinary people justifying this unbelievable cruelty was just stunning to me.  Growing up, we were always told that the Germans were fundamentally anti-Semitic, that there was something in their culture that made them susceptible to Hitler's rhetoric.  Jewish children are no longer told this, of course, and now we understand the Holocaust in the context of other genocides in other places.  But it wasn't until I heard people -- people I knew! -- defending the child separations that I finally got it.  It really can happen here.  And it wouldn't take much at all, even.

 

 

I grew up in Germany and of course always heard about the Nazi atrocities but I never could quite wrap my mind around anti-semitism. It just always sounded so silly and pointless. Obviously, any discrimination is wrong but to a certain extent I can understand (but not excuse!) it if it is of someone fundamentally different/threatening. But Jewish? I just never could understand it and I could never understand how people could get swept away by it. I still don't understand anti-semitism but I do see now how it is basically happening again (though hopefully it will stop before more harm is done). The feeling of superiority, of being somehow "better" as people than others, the reverence for military power and authoritanism... I still don't understand it but I see it happening. It is deeply disturbing to say the least as I would have hoped we have learned from our tragic mistakes.

[Twolittleboys]

10 hours ago, TravelingChris said:

This man was not only a Nazi, but a Trump hater too.  Also, while there are some people who are anti-immigrant, everyone I know who supports greater enforcement is also welcoming to legal immigrants.  Furthermore, I never heard anyone support separating children from parents. (of course, I tend to hang around more reasonable people)  It is a sad situation.  But many more children are separated because of jail, prison, hospitalizations, work, deployment, and on and on and on.  

I actually believe that in this country, we actually have overall greater respect for Jewish people than in some other Western countries.  However, the uptake in anti-Jewish crimes after a longer period of calm is troubling.  But the resurgence has been going on for longer in Europe.

 

Well, to me the problem isn't a stance on immigration (i.e. how strongly it should be enforced) but the way we treat people and even more how we think of them. To me, a country may well be in its right to send people back (or not - depending on circumstances) but there is no excuse for talking about immigrants (even if they arrive illegaly) as somehow less worthy of human dignity or as lesser people than others. Why should someone who had the good fortune to be born in the US be a better or more worthy person than someone from another place? Even if we assume that an immigrant enters the country illegally (though I believe asking for refuge is legal?) they are still people and need to be treated with fairness and compassion.

[Halftime Hope]

This might be too far off the OP's topic, but I think the fundamentals of parental rights have become so eroded in this country, that it's not at all surprising to me that immigrant families are separated.  Add to that that most of the infrastructure enforcing immigration law is law enforcement based, in which the norm is familial separation as a sequel to law-breaking, plus the gray area of so much minor trafficking within the immigrant flow, that it's like a perfect storm of rationales for separation.

Just musing...since a lot of "how in the world did we get to this place?" needs to come before "how do we make sure that it isn't even thinkable again?"

Sigh.

[Condessa]

My heart goes out to those poor families and community, and to all of our Jewish brothers and sisters.  One of the victims was a holocaust survivor, only to be murdered at a baby’s bris here in America!  I’ve watched in horror as anti-Semitic attacks have been becoming more frequent and open in Europe, and I feel ill seeing it mirrored here.  

[Kassia]

1 hour ago, Michelle Conde said:

.  One of the victims was a holocaust survivor, only to be murdered at a baby’s bris here in America!  

 

Snopes says this isn't true.  https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/pittsburgh-synagogue-shooting-holocaust-survivor/

[goldberry]

11 hours ago, Kassia said:

 

Snopes says this isn't true.  https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/pittsburgh-synagogue-shooting-holocaust-survivor/

 

Thanks for clarifying.  The real facts are horrifying enough without misinformation.