Send older special needs child back to school to make time for younger children?

[Janeway]

I am finding i difficult to balance the older child, who has been recently diagnosed with some special needs (ASD, adjustment disorder, Mood Disorder-NOS, anxiety disorder) that makes everything make sense. He is in 8th grade and could return to public school for the fall for 9th grade. I am not impressed with the local public school. But it's there.

 

Younger children are so eager to learn and definitely thirsting for more. They love home schooling. Daughter (kinder) went to bed last night crying, wanting promises of more home school today (Saturday). We are going on a field trip today!

 

Meanwhile, older child needs a lot of supervision and interaction for the school work. Unless someone sits with him while he does his work, he avoids it. And then when he does not understand something, he has a meltdown unless someone is right next to him to pick up on the clues that the meltdown is coming. He has friends doing the public school online virtual academy options.  So that is a possibility. There is also a Christian school near us that has a home study program and is affordable, so that is an option. They used mostly ACE and Alpha Omega, so, I could continue to just home school and try to switch to programs available in that format. I could send him to public school and hope it does not blow up in our faces. Or I could just continue on as is and hope for the best. 

Edited April 12, 2019 by Janeway

[lmrich]

Instead of using the money for tuition, could you use the money for help in the house? 

How many younger children?

[HomeAgain]

I think sending a child with anxiety to school would be my last resort.  Some other options to maybe explore:

-shift the high schooler's work to late morning/evening and work with the youngers first thing in the morning.

-find a co-op or outside class in the area for him to try.

-engage him in the process and finding solutions.  He may surprise you with what he comes up with if you present a clear agenda of your time needs and what he's been showing you he needs from you. He may even choose to go to school.

 

[Janeway]

I keep asking him to help come up with solutions. He does not at all. He was interested in the online virtual academy because his friends did it. He did not qualify for it due to not taking STAAR tests this year. But he did qualify for a different one.  The other idea, to just accept that he is an alternative learner, might work. For example, involve him in helping teach the younger children as part of his school day. He will learn and polish up things that way. I thought we could do Brave Writer a couple times in the year (the online classes) so that it was in short bursts rather than throughout the entire year. He actually likes watching documentaries and such so involve a lot of that in the school.  It is a kicker that he actually has an above average IQ (119) and says he wants to be an engineer, but then drags his feet so bad. I am hoping to get him in to Jetta's class that that he will love physics and maybe that would help. 

[PeterPan]

What you might do is make your formal written request now to the ps for evals, see what they might put on the table for services and interventions if you were to enroll him. 

I would NOT send away kids who are doing WELL in your homeschool environment to try to continue to teach at home someone who is not doing well at home.

[Susan in TX]

Accepting that he is an alternative learner is the way to go. There are many ways to skin a cat. Getting an education does not need to look like school. Having him help with the younger kids and watch documentaries is a great idea. When I was teaching several kids, I found it worked well to keep everyone who needed my direct supervision together and doing school at the same time. In our case we all sat at the dining room table and each child did their work with me right there to keep everyone on track and help as needed. 

Susan in TX

[prairiewindmomma]

Wait, is this your oldest or your next oldest? Your oldest is at a private classical school now, in high school, right? The search forums are kind of down/glitchy still.  But he also has issues?

Honestly, I think I'd send him to public school....I've kind of come full circle on this in my own thinking, but I'm coming to realize that at some point there needs to be a supported transition to adulthood.  If I remember correctly, you sent your youngers off this year so that you could work with your olders....but you recently pulled your youngers and would now like to focus on them.  I'm not sure if your K'er was in the private classical school or at public school, but because of the bullying, she's now home.  If sending her out is no longer possible, then I think you either need a dedicated people to help you with the youngers or you need to put your older son into public school and do after supports with a tutor...  Sending him to school where he has a long paper trail to follow him to college, or where he can access supports in the community if college is not on the table may be the way to go.  Really thinking about the long-term game plan----what life looks like after high school---is really important.

I chose to send my youngers to school so I could focus on my kid who has SN and needs a lot of support. I simply could not do it all....and at some point that situation may be reversed, but either way my SN child needs dedicated support at some point in the school day in order to accomplish learning. If your kid needs help, then he needs help, and I would do what I could to accomplish it.

My fear from this post, and based on other posts that you've made in the past, is that someone is just going to get shoved to the side with electronics or that the continual bounce between schools is going to happen. It is more fun and easier to work with a child who is excited about learning and who doesn't take so much emotional energy.  I get why teaching your K'er and your toddler is more appealing.  But don't neglect everybody else you chose to bring into the world, iywkim. 

 

[happypamama]

I don’t really know what the right answer is for your situation, but I wanted to tell you that you’re not alone. It’s not some way you’re failing, in case that’s what you’re telling yourself. The struggle for time and energy is real and legit. Sometimes that means you have to make a choice that you don’t really want to make. 

[prairiewindmomma]

10 minutes ago, happypamama said:

I don’t really know what the right answer is for your situation, but I wanted to tell you that you’re not alone. It’s not some way you’re failing, in case that’s what you’re telling yourself. The struggle for time and energy is real and legit. Sometimes that means you have to make a choice that you don’t really want to make. 

You said this better than I did.  Thank you.

[RootAnn]

It is always difficult to balance the needs of multiple children who need your attention. Most of mine needed me "at elbow" for all their work for years & years. Now, some of them are able to do certain subjects independently to make time for me to teach the youngers. It is a balancing act still, however, because I do still need to teach some subjects or discuss other ones with the olders.

Homeschooling isn't easy. Sometimes, you have to just figure it out & do it.

[fralala]

Janeway, is the primary issue here one of balancing your children's academic needs or their emotional needs? (Obviously, they both matter. But what do you perceive as the thing that needs to be attended to first?)

I am almost certain we could figure out a way for you to do the former, but I think many of us rely on a lot of outside support for the latter, especially if one or more of our kids is struggling. It's hard to gain insight on what is best for our children when we are constantly stressed out and barraged by their demands-- do you have nearby friends or family who can help provide some of that love and attention they need while you reflect upon what kind of resources you need in order to continue?

I am not sure if this is right or wrong, but I have come to feel that-- in terms of providing academics and attention-- I must be absolutely certain not to abide by either "the squeaky wheel gets the grease" OR "the wheel that never squeaks gets all my attention because I don't like greasing wheels anyway!" Not only that, but if I think it's just my job to take care of the wheels and forget that I'm a wheel myself, things fall apart.

OK, that metaphor probably went on a little too long. Hope you all had a wonderful field trip!

[Innisfree]

22 hours ago, PeterPan said:

What you might do is make your formal written request now to the ps for evals, see what they might put on the table for services and interventions if you were to enroll him. 

I would NOT send away kids who are doing WELL in your homeschool environment to try to continue to teach at home someone who is not doing well at home.

For background, I have a 13yo dd with similar diagnoses. We are struggling with what to do for her high school years. I understand very well the difficulty of managing your son's education at home. Teaching my dd has meant outsourcing all her sister's educational needs. It has been an imperfect solution, but the best we could manage.

I think Peter Pan is right that you need to find out what the public school education would actually look like for your son before you can make this decision. You can make a formal written request for evaluations, go through the IEP process, and see what school for him would involve. Until you know that, you don't really know what the options look like, kwim?

I'd quickly get hold of the Wright's Law book, learn about the process, and maybe think about hiring an advocate to help. If I'm remembering correctly, you've had some difficulties with the local school system, so having an outside professional involved might help even more than it usually would. You want the school system to take your requests seriously.

[Innisfree]

Wright's Law book:

https://www.amazon.com/Wrightslaw-Emotions-Advocacy-Education-Survival/dp/1892320096/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1523800725&sr=8-2&keywords=wright's+law+special+education+law

[Lecka]

Can his needs be met at school?

Would he qualify for services?

Would he qualify for a level of support where someone could be watching him for signs of a meltdown with difficult/frustrating work and helping him learn to manage that process on his own?

I am really a fan of Brenda Smith Myles and the school district we used to live in did use her stuff, and did try to monitor and teach self-management to teens with that kind of profile.

I think that needs to be a focus because he is going to have difficult or frustrating moments in his life and he needs to learn skills.  I do think there are schools that exist where he would definitely still have bad moments and discomfort and things not always going the way they should, BUT where they would be making good faith efforts to provide evidence based supports and teaching in this area.  

There are other models too I know are also good, different schools pick different ones.  

This is the one I am more familiar with.  https://www.amazon.com/Comprehensive-Planning-Individuals-Asperger-Disabilities/dp/1934575038

If you keep him home he legitimately sounds like he needs supports from you or from tutors you hire.  https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/1942197241/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1523800471&sr=8-1&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=Brenda+Smith+Myles&dpPl=1&dpID=51Ki7GM2yfL&ref=plSrch

My son is not in this age group, but I do have a really good impression of this book and I saw her speak and she was excellent.  

Anyway, it sounds like you are only very recently finding out about this issue and figuring out what steps to take.  There are some things that are good to do, and they “can” be done at school or at home.  Will they be done at either place?  That is where looking at what is available and what is possible comes in.  

I think too, if you do decide to have him do more tag-along activities, then you can see if he has meltdowns with those situations.  If he does then that is good to find out and be able to work on.  It is easy to get in a pattern where you cater to a child to prevent meltdowns, and the attention does go toward preventing those meltdowns.  It is hard.  If that is going on, then if you can try to have him be “not” catered to then maybe you can help him work on his frustration tolerance and stuff.  I hope it’s not that kind of situation but it would be a common pattern if you are in it.  I have been in it and it is common.  But really our kids have to develop frustration tolerance as difficult as it is, and they need a balance between getting help and still having to do some independently.  It is hard and if there is a good school program it can be easier with someone who chose to do this job for a living.  If that’s not available at school I do think you should try to provide it outside of school.  

This is not easy stuff, it is very stressful!!!!!!!!!

[Innisfree]

Advocates:

http://www.specialneedskidsdirectory.com/educational-resources-p3

Fyi, I have not used services like this, I just know they exist. But I'm thinking very seriously of using one when we go through this process again, probably next year.

[kristin0713]

What do you expect his life to look like after high school?  Since he would be going into 9th grade, this is a crucial time to start planning for his future.  Would attending public high school help prepare him for the years after more than you can at home? If he really wants to be an engineer and you think he is college bound, move forward in a way that prepares him for that. That could be at home, of course...or he could need the extra accountability of outside teachers, homework due, etc. 

[PeterPan]

21 hours ago, Innisfree said:

For background, I have a 13yo dd with similar diagnoses. We are struggling with what to do for her high school years. I understand very well the difficulty of managing your son's education at home. Teaching my dd has meant outsourcing all her sister's educational needs. It has been an imperfect solution, but the best we could manage.

I think Peter Pan is right that you need to find out what the public school education would actually look like for your son before you can make this decision. You can make a formal written request for evaluations, go through the IEP process, and see what school for him would involve. Until you know that, you don't really know what the options look like, kwim?

I'd quickly get hold of the Wright's Law book, learn about the process, and maybe think about hiring an advocate to help. If I'm remembering correctly, you've had some difficulties with the local school system, so having an outside professional involved might help even more than it usually would. You want the school system to take your requests seriously.

Just to follow that up. Having a medical diagnosis is *not* enough to get that condition put as his disabling condition for an IEP. You have to meet the legal definition of ASD in your state, and the school can be very nitpicky about interpreting every little jot and tiddle of it. I get that now, having gone through this with our school and going in circles. It's not that your dc won't meet the definition but the school won't bother to run the testing that would show it. And it's not enough that he just meets it. They'll probably actually want test scores, something standardized, that shows yes he meets this portion of the definition and this portion and this portion. 

And maybe your ps won't be that way. But if you've had run-ins already, that's probably what is happening. Some schools are so strapped that they're astonishingly hard to deal with.

To Innisfree's comments about advocates. I used a pro bono lawyer and got some progress, but we made much more headway when we finally consulted with a SN attorney who does this exclusively. It's not terribly expensive to consult (compared to bringing them to an IEP session, ugh), and they look over your file and tell you what you need to do next, what remains. They'll read EVERYTHING and show you your holes and how the school will attack it. 

Unfortunately, the IEP process is a legal process. But I can tell you, for free, the first step is make sure you have test score documentation that he meets every component of the definition of the disabling condition in your state law. If you want it to go smoothly, that helps. And sometimes that means private evals or else advocating hard for the evals you know will fit it. Schools are very strapped and are pushing back. You have to show, with data, that he fits the legal definition and you have to show it having effect on his ability to access his education. 

Just my word to the wise? I would put your money and emphasis on Social Thinking. His social thinking deficits and social skills are more likely to affect his employability than his math ACT score. If you win on the math and whatever and don't get the social thinking intervention, he could still be unemployable. I don't know him. I'm just saying under-employment is high in the autism community and I personally know people who are crazy bright, super high scores, whose deficits are so severe they can't even hold a job at Walmart.

[Katy]

I think you need to start with calling your school district and find out everything there is to know about the process of enrolling him and qualifying for an IEP.

Some kids really do better in school, especially when the relationship with the parent doing homeschooling is trying.  Others do best at home learning at their own pace.  I don't think you'll know what's best for your family until you get more information.

[Janeway]

On 4/14/2018 at 4:14 PM, prairiewindmomma said:

Wait, is this your oldest or your next oldest? Your oldest is at a private classical school now, in high school, right? The search forums are kind of down/glitchy still.  But he also has issues?

Honestly, I think I'd send him to public school....I've kind of come full circle on this in my own thinking, but I'm coming to realize that at some point there needs to be a supported transition to adulthood.  If I remember correctly, you sent your youngers off this year so that you could work with your olders....but you recently pulled your youngers and would now like to focus on them.  I'm not sure if your K'er was in the private classical school or at public school, but because of the bullying, she's now home.  If sending her out is no longer possible, then I think you either need a dedicated people to help you with the youngers or you need to put your older son into public school and do after supports with a tutor...  Sending him to school where he has a long paper trail to follow him to college, or where he can access supports in the community if college is not on the table may be the way to go.  Really thinking about the long-term game plan----what life looks like after high school---is really important.

I chose to send my youngers to school so I could focus on my kid who has SN and needs a lot of support. I simply could not do it all....and at some point that situation may be reversed, but either way my SN child needs dedicated support at some point in the school day in order to accomplish learning. If your kid needs help, then he needs help, and I would do what I could to accomplish it.

My fear from this post, and based on other posts that you've made in the past, is that someone is just going to get shoved to the side with electronics or that the continual bounce between schools is going to happen. It is more fun and easier to work with a child who is excited about learning and who doesn't take so much emotional energy.  I get why teaching your K'er and your toddler is more appealing.  But don't neglect everybody else you chose to bring into the world, iywkim. 

 

Oldest has Aspergers and is doing great in the classical school. Youngers were just going to the local public school, but the intent always was that they would home school this upcoming fall. The child I am referring to is my second child. 

 

The part that is so defeating about my second child is that he doesn't try at all. Even if he is just not trying because it is not within his mental capacity to try, he simply does not try. Today, for example, I have spent the entire day trying to get him to do one math lesson. At one point, he walked off to his bedroom claiming he would do it in there. But once in there, he went to sleep. When I tried to get him up, he would not get up. When he finally got up, he moaned and such, not wanting to do anything. And then gave me his math book and I look at it and he did nothing. One of my nephews is here today helping me. My siblings are working on moving our dad in to assisted living and today, my dad is gone so my nephew came over here to help. My nephew is an adult. He has taken the younger children to the park and such so that I can focus on 13 yr old, but 13 yr old told me off and went back to bed. I did not engage in fighting with him. There is no two-ways about this. We are not arguing. I simply went down and texted my husband what happened and I guess my husband will deal with it when he gets home from work. I feel like I am not only not making a difference having him home but I am also enabling his bad behavior. He knows he can just sleep all day and tell me off if I try to get him to do anything.

[Janeway]

On 4/15/2018 at 5:42 AM, fralala said:

Janeway, is the primary issue here one of balancing your children's academic needs or their emotional needs? (Obviously, they both matter. But what do you perceive as the thing that needs to be attended to first?)

I am almost certain we could figure out a way for you to do the former, but I think many of us rely on a lot of outside support for the latter, especially if one or more of our kids is struggling. It's hard to gain insight on what is best for our children when we are constantly stressed out and barraged by their demands-- do you have nearby friends or family who can help provide some of that love and attention they need while you reflect upon what kind of resources you need in order to continue?

I am not sure if this is right or wrong, but I have come to feel that-- in terms of providing academics and attention-- I must be absolutely certain not to abide by either "the squeaky wheel gets the grease" OR "the wheel that never squeaks gets all my attention because I don't like greasing wheels anyway!" Not only that, but if I think it's just my job to take care of the wheels and forget that I'm a wheel myself, things fall apart.

OK, that metaphor probably went on a little too long. Hope you all had a wonderful field trip!

He has gotten all my attention and time for a long time now. And it goes all hours. During the day, it is school work. In the evenings, it is ballet. Financially, we are stretched and no one else has outside activities because all our time and money goes to him. And nothing is ever enough. For example, his birthday is before summer session of dance starts. We tell him he can chose summer classes as his birthday present. Honestly, summer session of dance costs more than what we generally give for presents, but, we offer that. Well, even though I just registered him a couple weeks ago and paid, he has already been presenting me with lists of what he wants for his birthday. And these are seriously big things that we would never give for Christmas. He wants a PS4 plus games and all that goes with it. Well, for Christmas, he just had to have a Switch and once all the kids got on board with getting a Switch, we got it as a family present. Now, he has moved on and wants a PS4 as a birthday present! This past year, for the three kids with September birthdays, we spent maybe $20 a child (husband was out of work at the time) but normally would spend closer to $50 per child

 

The field trip was great! We pretty much have one a week planned through the end of the school year.

[Janeway]

20 hours ago, kristin0713 said:

What do you expect his life to look like after high school?  Since he would be going into 9th grade, this is a crucial time to start planning for his future.  Would attending public high school help prepare him for the years after more than you can at home? If he really wants to be an engineer and you think he is college bound, move forward in a way that prepares him for that. That could be at home, of course...or he could need the extra accountability of outside teachers, homework due, etc. 

I doubt he is college bound. I cannot see him ever becoming an engineer. He says that is what he wants to do, but honestly, I would like to be skinny. I have a better chance of becoming skinny than he does of becoming an engineer. Due to my PCOS and Hashimotos, added to the recent decision I made to no longer refuse to eat fudge, I doubt I will get skinny. But who knows, could turn out that fudge is the key to skinniness. And if it is, then it could be that refusing to do any school work at all is the key to becoming an engineer.

 

I have no clue what his life will be like after high school. I just know that I am no longer preparing him for college. We are going in to survival mode at this point.

[HomeAgain]

Honestly it sounds like a really unhealthy dynamic going on here.  I'd be inclined to start putting in firm limits.  No work = no ballet that week.  Because it doesn't sound like this is going to go away when he is in school if you don't work on creating a system with consequences now.  I wouldn't let a child fail his 9th grade year because he doesn't have the skills and support in place to stick within boundaries.

[Janeway]

3 hours ago, Katy said:

I think you need to start with calling your school district and find out everything there is to know about the process of enrolling him and qualifying for an IEP.

Some kids really do better in school, especially when the relationship with the parent doing homeschooling is trying.  Others do best at home learning at their own pace.  I don't think you'll know what's best for your family until you get more information.

We already know the process and already did it. But he would not have an IEP at the public school. Our local public school has programs and such in place for kids who do not have academic goals, who are working on things like life skills and taking all remedial classes and in inclusion all day. In fact, the more we talk about it, I remember the psychologist from the public school telling me she would not put him in the public school. My child has the horrible misfortune of having ASD without his IQ being affected.

[Janeway]

2 minutes ago, HomeAgain said:

Honestly it sounds like a really unhealthy dynamic going on here.  I'd be inclined to start putting in firm limits.  No work = no ballet that week.  Because it doesn't sound like this is going to go away when he is in school if you don't work on creating a system with consequences now.  I wouldn't let a child fail his 9th grade year because he doesn't have the skills and support in place to stick within boundaries.

When we take away the computer, he gets angry the first day basically. Then his mood and behavior greatly improves. Then he begs for a promise for the computer to come back at a certain date or time upon finishing his work or whatever else needs to be done. And then he earns it back and the cycle continues.

[Katy]

1 minute ago, Janeway said:

We already know the process and already did it. But he would not have an IEP at the public school. Our local public school has programs and such in place for kids who do not have academic goals, who are working on things like life skills and taking all remedial classes and in inclusion all day. In fact, the more we talk about it, I remember the psychologist from the public school telling me she would not put him in the public school. My child has the horrible misfortune of having ASD without his IQ being affected.

 

I can't figure out how to insert the (hug) emoticon with this new board, if I could I would.

I know you're really frustrated right now, and this is hard to figure out, but this might not be as horrible as you think.  At least that's what the ASD evaluation told us in regards to my nephew. He might be more severe on the autism scale, but he is verbal and does seem to have a higher IQ, and we were told this means he is less likely to be disabled and more likely to find a job and be able to live independently.  It might be a job with narrow interests and without customer contact, but certain types of engineering, accounting, and computer programming might be ideal for him.  The bad news is he might require extra scaffolding and a few extra years to get through the schooling.

[HomeAgain]

It sounds like he's determining the effect, Janeway.  I keep it simple in my house.  The week starts on X day.  Child B needs to have these things done to enjoy stuff at end of week.  Things not done, nothing enjoyed.  The new week starts on the next day, so there's a whole new chance.  But *I* inform the child of what will happen and for how long.  I don't bargain in times like that.  Bargaining is for when the child has something to bargain with.

[Janeway]

I have considered changing what we do to things that are less interactive. That way, it is between him and the book and I just grade. Of course, that is what we do with the Derek Owens math class and still, I have a lot to do. He says the lessons are too long and he does not like watching them. I frequently find him with the video running but he is looking off away from the screen. But maybe things with videos are not the way to go. I hate to resort to workbook programs, but I was looking over CLE and maybe we should just do CLE (or something similar) for several subjects next year. 

[freesia]

If he's not doing anything and it's hurting your relationship, I think you need to try school. 

[prairiewindmomma]

What you are doing right now isn't working for you.  You're right, he's determined that he doesn't have to put in effort with you.  He's also old enough to understand the consequences of his choices. 

I suspect he has issues with persisting at a boring task, at knowing how to initiate tasks, at working through frustrating things and at other self-regulation skills.  Either you've got to be right there with him, supporting him while he does this (and please know I do know how down and dirty in the trenches this work is) or you've got to enroll him and let the school hold him accountable and he can deal with the consequences there.  

I don't see how you can do this and homeschool your others well.  Seriously. Based on the relationship dynamics you've explained, I'd enroll him. And if you all aren't already in regular counseling together, I'd put all of my discretionary budget dollars there. Ballet would go if needed to afford it.

[Tsuga]

Young teen boy + anxiety + attention/executive functioning issues does not scream to me, "will be better off or even okay in public school." I'm a huge public school fan and I understand the frustration with a young teen boy (my stepson is similar and similar age). But it seems like a last resort at this juncture.

I suggest hiring an older teen boy as a mentor and tutor, and have your son accountable to him. You do the curriculum, help with key lessons, and then spend $ on two hours of tutoring/grading three days a week.

If your son doesn't do his work he will be accountable to another young man. You can get him started and then cool explain, "I'm focusing on the littles. Do what you can and you'll meet with (tutor) tomorrow."

And start letting go. Have 9th be part of junior high if need be. He can fail--in front of someone else, but not a whole institution. Make sure the tutor has resources and experience. I find it unlikely that your son will have a meltdown in front of a 16 year old mentor. Just a guess. It is possible but it's a lower cost option that could buy you at least a semester.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

15 hours ago, Tsuga said:

Young teen boy + anxiety + attention/executive functioning issues does not scream to me, "will be better off or even okay in public school." I'm a huge public school fan and I understand the frustration with a young teen boy (my stepson is similar and similar age). But it seems like a last resort at this juncture.

I suggest hiring an older teen boy as a mentor and tutor, and have your son accountable to him. You do the curriculum, help with key lessons, and then spend $ on two hours of tutoring/grading three days a week.

If your son doesn't do his work he will be accountable to another young man. You can get him started and then cool explain, "I'm focusing on the littles. Do what you can and you'll meet with (tutor) tomorrow."

And start letting go. Have 9th be part of junior high if need be. He can fail--in front of someone else, but not a whole institution. Make sure the tutor has resources and experience. I find it unlikely that your son will have a meltdown in front of a 16 year old mentor. Just a guess. It is possible but it's a lower cost option that could buy you at least a semester.

Having raised four teen sons (three are now adults), I am having a very hard time imagining a 16yo homeschooled boy who has the skill and experience to tutor a peer, and hold him accountable, while still having time for his own studies and extra-curriculars. If he's got that kind of skill and experience, he probably also has a good college future that he needs to work toward.

Tutoring and grading take so much time outside of the in-class sessions, and it's definitely an adult level skill to teach and mentor academically. Really, the young man would be committing 10 to 15 hours per week, plus the expectations being placed on him to mentor, inspire, and hold accountable. If he could manage it all, and was willing, he'd deserve at least $30 to $40 per hour because private tutoring is expensive. So the cost would be about $200 per week (or $800+ per month), at a minimum, plus the material costs. 

But again, homeschooled teen boys do not have two hours, three days per week, plus prep and grading, to devote to another student. They have jobs and activities of their own, plus rigorous school work if they're at the academic level that would prepare them to be a teacher.

 

 

 

[Chris in VA]

Can you try partial enrollment? I know here in VA we can enroll as homeschoolers in two core classes, which include math, English, history and science. We can enroll in one core class and a foreign language, also. 

If this is an option for you, I would seriously think about taking it. I see two possibilities--

1. PIck something he enjoys so that his experience is positive and there is the possibility to continue for the following years. This option's main benefit would be the continuation factor plus freeing time for you to work with littles. 

2. Pick something he fights you on that you hate teaching. This option frees you from that bit of conflict. 

Or you could do one class he likes and one he doesn't. This would be what I'd probably do, being Episcopalian and into the Via Media. hahaha

Seriously, I'm sorry it is so tough. My ASD kiddo made it thru college. It is a possibility for some. I'd say the social skills are crucial, and I'd add in some sort of conflict-resolution therapy/contracting work if possible. 

What do you think?

[Tsuga]

5 hours ago, Tibbie Dunbar said:

Having raised four teen sons (three are now adults), I am having a very hard time imagining a 16yo homeschooled boy who has the skill and experience to tutor a peer, and hold him accountable, while still having time for his own studies and extra-curriculars. If he's got that kind of skill and experience, he probably also has a good college future that he needs to work toward.

Tutoring and grading take so much time outside of the in-class sessions, and it's definitely an adult level skill to teach and mentor academically. Really, the young man would be committing 10 to 15 hours per week, plus the expectations being placed on him to mentor, inspire, and hold accountable. If he could manage it all, and was willing, he'd deserve at least $30 to $40 per hour because private tutoring is expensive. So the cost would be about $200 per week (or $800+ per month), at a minimum, plus the material costs. 

But again, homeschooled teen boys do not have two hours, three days per week, plus prep and grading, to devote to another student. They have jobs and activities of their own, plus rigorous school work if they're at the academic level that would prepare them to be a teacher.

Perhaps I wasn't clear. I was talking about someone for accountability, at 6 hours per week, as a check-in, to motivate the high schooler to just do his work already.

Not as an alternative teacher.

And plenty of kids work 10-20 hours per week and volunteer. Many of them would love fewer than 20 hours but find it hard to get a job that has like 5 - 10 so they have to take more hours. And I was talking about paid, around here that's like $30/hour for a first time tutor, so that's $120 per week. That to me seems reasonable.

I agree that it's not a substitute for the entire homeschool, but I wasn't talking about that. I was saying, to provide external accountability without putting the teen straight into high school.

 

Edit: Also, he doesn't have to be homeschooled. He just has to be a good student and be able to walk through basic questions... our schools have teen tutors for middle schoolers. It's not meant to be the primary means of instruction. But the kids often prefer it because then they have someone who gets the situation they are in. I don't see why people would think an unmotivated 14 year old could help with littles, but a 16 year old with his stuff together couldn't help a 14 year old?

There are surely a lot of factors involved but I don't see high school tutors as impossible.

[fralala]

11 hours ago, Tsuga said:

Perhaps I wasn't clear. I was talking about someone for accountability, at 6 hours per week, as a check-in, to motivate the high schooler to just do his work already.

Not as an alternative teacher.

And plenty of kids work 10-20 hours per week and volunteer. Many of them would love fewer than 20 hours but find it hard to get a job that has like 5 - 10 so they have to take more hours. And I was talking about paid, around here that's like $30/hour for a first time tutor, so that's $120 per week. That to me seems reasonable.

I agree that it's not a substitute for the entire homeschool, but I wasn't talking about that. I was saying, to provide external accountability without putting the teen straight into high school.

Edit: Also, he doesn't have to be homeschooled. He just has to be a good student and be able to walk through basic questions... our schools have teen tutors for middle schoolers. It's not meant to be the primary means of instruction. But the kids often prefer it because then they have someone who gets the situation they are in. I don't see why people would think an unmotivated 14 year old could help with littles, but a 16 year old with his stuff together couldn't help a 14 year old?

There are surely a lot of factors involved but I don't see high school tutors as impossible.

 

I think there might really be something to the idea that this kid could use older male mentors to be accountable to rather than his mom right now. And I like that this idea might keep him out of a potentially lousy school environment.

I'm not so sure about slightly older peers doing the job; as a former peer tutor, I can tell you that most of the kids I worked with spent a whole lot of time trying to coerce me to do their work for themin various ways. Like many things that happened in school, peer tutoring made those of us who were responsible already even more mature and responsible, but didn't necessarily have the same effect on the kids who were being tutored.

So maybe the question I would have for this kid, or any unmotivated kid, is what responsibility could he take on that would help him build that maturity and sense of responsibility from within? Janeway, you mentioned that he transforms positively when he's not using screens. And you also mention that ballet is an extremely positive experience for him (one of the reasons I'd really hesitate to threaten him with the loss of this activity). If you're up for it, I wonder if it might be helpful to write out all the positive and wonderful traits of this kid, the times when you do see him taking initiative and acting with maturity, or doing something nice for his siblings, or responding to you positively. What if the weight of cultural and academic expectations were totally off you and him-- what would he look like? What would be best for him?

(Not saying you have to do that, but maybe reflecting on that will help you make a decision? You're the only one here that knows that kid. And it would be a good thing if he knew himself as that person, too.)

[Terabith]

My anxious, Aspie-ish 13 year old does very well in school.