S/O night owl - How to GET UP?

[Seeking Squirrels]

My natural sleep-wake cycle would be 2/3am - 10/11am. I have to fight hard to get to bed before 1am but I can usually make myself get there by 12. Waking up is SO HARD for me. It always has been. I was the kid getting yelled at constantly to get up. I was the teen regularly missing my bus. Whether it is 7 am or 10 am, whether I've had 5 hours sleep or 8 hours of sleep, I struggle to wake. Sometimes I honestly think I don't produce the wake-up hormone. I have to set 4-5 alarms 10-15 minutes apart in order to get up if we have to be somewhere by 9 or earlier. 

 

Most mornings go like this:

Kids come in around 7:30-8:00 and wake me up. They ask if they can watch MLP and I say yes and fall back to sleep.

They occupy themselves well for a while and come back in some time around 8:30/9:00.

I struggle to wake up enough to interact with them. They often wake me several times over the next half an hour as they play on the bed and I keep falling back to sleep. 

I finally feel conscious enough to tell them to get some breakfast and I grab my phone.

I play on my phone to wake up. I know this isn't a great habit as I'm just still laying in bed, but it forces my brain to start working. It makes me keep my eyes open so I stop falling back asleep. 

I do still sometimes drift off again even with lights on, fan off, phone in hand. If I am able to force my legs out of bed, I often find myself lying back down again with no memory of deciding to lay back down. But most of the time my legs feel like lead. 

I feel more tired than I did the night before when I went to bed. Every inch of me feels exhausted and the bed is just so comfortable (which it is not at night or through the night. I do not feel comfortable until around 5/6am. I toss and turn a lot before that). It feels like it's supposed to be time to go to sleep, not wake up. 

I just CANT GET MOVING. 

It's usually close to 10 before I am up. 

 

Anyone BTDT? I keep telling myself to just adult-up and get up. But it's easier said than done. I just don't know what to do anymore to make myself able to get moving. 

 

*FTR, a few months back I forced myself to go to bed at 10:30 every night for about 6 weeks. There was zero change with my ability to wake up in the morning.

[Tanaqui]

Have you tried using a lightbox in the mornings and/or a sunrise simulator?

[Seeking Squirrels]

Have you tried using a lightbox in the mornings and/or a sunrise simulator?

My mom just got me a lightbox for Christmas and I have to admit to it getting shoved in a corner with a lot of Christmas mess and forgotten about! I will get that out tonight to try in the morning. Would I use it next to the bed to get me going, or downstairs for after I am up?

[Tanaqui]

Slightly above your head in the morning if you've having trouble even getting up, I should think. What's the lumens?

[Seeking Squirrels]

I struggle with this too. No device use in bed and waking up really early a few mornings in a row, painful as it is, helps. But my natural cycle is nightowl and I have to make a concerted effort to counteract it.

 

Plenty of exercise helps too. I detest exercise, by and large, except for a few activities, but there is no denying that good exertion before 6 pm really helps my sleep.

 

I had a 7:00am job for 7 years and I found it just as hard to get up on my last day there as I did on my first. So unless I was missing something, the habit doesn't make it any easier on me. 

 

I am horrible about exercise. As in I never, ever do it.  :o  Before 6pm, though? The only time I've even thought I might exercise though I haven't made myself yet is around 10 after everyone else is in bed. :/ 

[Guinevere]

That basically sums up my life. It's 12:40, and I have a repairman coming at 9a. I'm wide awake, and am going to feel horrible when I'm dragging myself out of bed at 7a.

 

The only thing I've found to do is bring a caffeinated soda up to bed with me. When I am first awake, I force myself to open it and drink a little. The caffeine and the sugar wake me up just enough to get going. Sometimes.

 

If I get straight into the shower after that, it helps, too. I need to get dressed and go outside right away, though, or I'm likely to just get back in bed.

 

Being a night owl is rough. When I can sleep as my body would like, I feel SO good. Early to bed and early to rise makes me feel worse by the day.

 

Eta I don't recommend the soda thing. I don't recommend it for all the obvious health and teeth reasons.

Edited January 3, 2018 by Guinevere

[Seeking Squirrels]

Slightly above your head in the morning if you've having trouble even getting up, I should think. What's the lumens?

It says "Up to 10,000 LUX at 4" " 

[OneStepAtATime]

Read the other thread.  This is more involved than just forcing yourself to go to bed earlier.  You need to set your rhythms so that your body starts winding down and sending itself sleep signals waaaaayyyy earlier than midnight.  That may take radically shifting your bedtime routine but also using melatonin in the early evening and your Christmas gift light lamp in the morning and getting plenty of exercise.  NO screens in the evening and no exercising after 6pm.  I would not start this process until you have everything in place.  Set a date for when you are going to start, write it down on the calendar, then work to get everything you need into place.  

 

It will also take discipline to be consistent and consistency is key.  Don't wait for the kids to wake you.  Set an alarm, and when you set your alarm to get up you actually get up.  I would recommend setting it for BEFORE they normally come get you.  Put the alarm clock/phone clear across the room and commit to starting your morning routine immediately after shutting it off. Make a list of things you normally do to get ready in the morning (or things you would like to do to get ready in the morning but are normally too tired) then follow that list, same time every day, every single morning.  No snoozing at all.  Zero snoozing because that is reinforcing for your brain that it is o.k. to go back to sleep once you are awakened.

 

Another thing that might help during this process of shifting your sleep cycle is to have something special just for you each morning to get you going.  Maybe it is a special type of coffee or a book you only read when you wake up on time or maybe you have a special type of music you would like to listen to as you get dressed.  Pick something that makes you happy but ONLY use it in the morning when you get up on time.

Edited January 3, 2018 by OneStepAtATime

[Seeking Squirrels]

That basically sums up my life. It's 12:40, and I have a repairman coming at 9a. I'm wide awake, and am going to feel horrible when I'm dragging myself out of bed at 7a.

 

The only thing I've found to do is bring a caffeinated soda up to bed with me. When I am first awake, I force myself to open it and drink a little. The caffeine and the sugar wake me up just enough to get going. Sometimes.

 

If I get straight into the shower after that, it helps, too. I need to get dressed and go outside right away, though, or I'm likely to just get back in bed.

 

Being a night owl is rough. When I can sleep as my body would like, I feel SO good. Early to bed and early to rise makes me feel worse by the day.

 

Eta I don't recommend the soda thing. I don't recommend it for all the obvious health and teeth reasons.

I drink hot tea in the morning and I've often wished I could have a machine just like a coffee machine by my bed that could be set so I have a mug of tea waiting for me when my alarm goes off. Alas, tea is more fiddly than coffee! 

 

I can see the morning soda becoming a bad habit health-wise! As of now I don't really like the taste of soda before lunch but I'm sure I could get used to it if I started this! 

 

Re the bolded.... YES! 

[OneStepAtATime]

One step - that’s all really excellent advice. Hard to follow but you’re bang on with my experience.

Yeah especially if there isn't anything that absolutely requires me to get out of bed on a regular basis it can be hard to shift my wake up time.  I totally get it.  This isn't easy at all.

 

One thing that has helped when I have had to shift in either direction is not to do it haphazardly, as in on a whim.  I set an intentional date, write it down on a calendar, commit to starting on that date, make a list of things that need to be done to help me get there, make sure I have all of those things ready to go, then start on the date I had committed myself to.  I psych myself up by telling myself I am NOT going to let my own body undermine my goals.  I WILL do this.  But it really has helped for me to have something to look forward to doing when I go to bed and something to look forward to doing when I get up.  Usually it is a book.  I have a morning book and an evening book.  

[OneStepAtATime]

I drink hot tea in the morning and I've often wished I could have a machine just like a coffee machine by my bed that could be set so I have a mug of tea waiting for me when my alarm goes off. Alas, tea is more fiddly than coffee! 

 

I can see the morning soda becoming a bad habit health-wise! As of now I don't really like the taste of soda before lunch but I'm sure I could get used to it if I started this! 

 

Re the bolded.... YES! 

What about an individual cup Keurig and a container of properly measured water ready to go?  They aren't very big.  Mom and I use ours but we no longer use the Keurig cups.  We use tea bags.  The Keurig just heats the water.  Super quick.  Tea is ready very fast.

[Peaceseeker]

So even if you let yourself sleep as long as your body naturally needs you still struggle with waking up? I am a natural night owl too, but if I let myself sleep until I naturally wake up without an alarm clock it is not difficult to get out of bed at say, 10-11 am.

 

Is the problem that you are forcing yourself to get up earlier than your body needs due to the kids? Or does this happen even if you sleep in without an alarm clock til 10-11 am?

Edited January 3, 2018 by CaliforniaDreaming

[Peaceseeker]

You might consider a sleep study to make sure there isn't an underlying problem like sleep apnea.

[Seeking Squirrels]

What about an individual cup Keurig and a container of properly measured water ready to go?  They aren't very big.  Mom and I use ours but we no longer use the Keurig cups.  We use tea bags.  The Keurig just heats the water.  Super quick.  Tea is ready very fast.

 

 

Thank you for all of your ideas. TBH, I am nearly crying thinking of no snooze, immediate up, before 7:30.  :crying: It honestly sounds so overwhelmingly difficult. 

 

I'll have to look into a Keurig. I didn't know it could be used without the k-cups. I have my specific tea I like ;) I'm not into herbal stuff that they're more likely to have things for. I just like English breakfast tea. 

 

I'm at a loss thinking of something to look forward to in the morning. Morning and pleasure just don't go together in my mind :/ I guess maybe a book along with my tea sounds nice. Or it would if we weren't talking about 7am. 

 

So if I'm looking at 7am wake up then I would be going to bed at 11. So would screen be okay until 10? Watching a show on netflix after the kids go down is how I unwind. I'm big into geek tv and never have tv time during the day. I need that time, even if I have to drop to 1 episode a night instead of my usual 2 (or 3 or 4 :o ). Then I could read or do other non-screen things for another hour before going to bed. Is this reasonable? 

[kiwik]

I drink hot tea in the morning and I've often wished I could have a machine just like a coffee machine by my bed that could be set so I have a mug of tea waiting for me when my alarm goes off. Alas, tea is more fiddly than coffee!

 

I can see the morning soda becoming a bad habit health-wise! As of now I don't really like the taste of soda before lunch but I'm sure I could get used to it if I started this!

 

Re the bolded.... YES!

Can you still get Teas's mades. Then you wake up to your tea.

[Seeking Squirrels]

So even if you let yourself sleep as long as your body naturally needs you still struggle with waking up? I am a natural night owl too, but if I let myself sleep until I naturally wake up without an alarm clock it is not difficult to get out of bed at say, 10-11 am.

 

Is the problem that you are forcing yourself to get up earlier than your body needs due to the kids? Or does this happen even if you sleep in without an alarm clock til 10-11 am?

It's not AS hard, but still quite difficult. I still find myself waking, drifting, waking... And I still find it just as hard to do the actual getting up part, even if I'm awake. When DH and the kids last left me for a weekend I was going to bed around 3 and waking slowly around 11. They've actually left me for the weekend a few times and once I didn't wake up until 1pm. 

 

You might consider a sleep study to make sure there isn't an underlying problem like sleep apnea.

Does snoring always accompany sleep apnea? I've always kind of ruled this out since I don't snore. But I guess I've never looked into if it's possible to be present without the snoring. 

[LucyStoner]

We got these for my son (who has to wake up at 6AM) and myself (who ideally wakes up at 5AM).  

 

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/philips-wake-up-light-white-gray/9572096.p?skuId=9572096

 

I looked at some less expensive versions but I wanted ones that had a therapy light level.  

 

So far, we like them.  

[KungFuPanda]

Can you put the light box near your bed on a timer? Turn on an electric blanket to make it too warm in the morning so you want to toss off the covers? Keep all electronics out of your bedroom? Put a coffee pot with a timer in your room? Try taking melatonin at night? Eliminate evening and afternoon caffeine? Add some serious exercise so you’re physically tired at night?

Edited January 3, 2018 by KungFuPanda

[Seeking Squirrels]

We got these for my son (who has to wake up at 6AM) and myself (who ideally wakes up at 5AM).  

 

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/philips-wake-up-light-white-gray/9572096.p?skuId=9572096

 

I looked at some less expensive versions but I wanted ones that had a therapy light level.  

 

So far, we like them.  

 

That looks really good but unfortunately out of our price range right now. But I'm going to keep it in mind for if I'm still struggling after everything else. 

 

Can you put the light box near your bed on a timer? Turn on an electric blanket to make it too warm in the morning so you want to toss off the covers? Keep all electronics out of your bedroom? Put a coffee pot with a timer in your room? Try taking melatonin at night? Eliminate evening and afternoon caffeine? Add some serious exercise so you’re physically tired at night?

I might put it by my bed but it doesn't have a timer. So I'll have to switch it on myself if I go that route. I'm bad with electronics in bed! I always play on my phone before lying down. That's on the list of changes to make. The caffeine and exercise are definite areas to work on, too. I have de-caffeinated earl gray if it's late, but I often have caffeine up to about 6:00. Melatonin seems to make it even harder for me to wake up, but it seems I may be taking it much too late. When I've tried it I take it as I'm taking my other bedtime med, so maybe I need to try taking it earlier. 

[eternalsummer]

What gets me up in the morning when I need to get up earlier than I'd like (I am also a late sleeper/stay awaker) is thinking of a bowl of raisin bran.  I just love raisin bran, and I don't eat a ton of it (keeping cereal in this house is kind of pointless), so if I know I'm going to have a couple of days of having to wake up early, I am careful not to eat in the evening, I store a few boxes of raisin bran, and then when I wake up I think ooh, so hungry!  raisin bran!  And I get up.

 

If there is nothing tasty waiting for me for breakfast, I'm sleeping another 3 hours.

[Seeking Squirrels]

Can you still get Teas's mades. Then you wake up to your tea.

I had to look this up! It looks like there are a few models of teasmade or similar on amazon. Too bad we're on this side of Christmas, I could have asked for one. It might be a bit before we could get something like this but I'm keeping my eye on it. 

[Seeking Squirrels]

What gets me up in the morning when I need to get up earlier than I'd like (I am also a late sleeper/stay awaker) is thinking of a bowl of raisin bran.  I just love raisin bran, and I don't eat a ton of it (keeping cereal in this house is kind of pointless), so if I know I'm going to have a couple of days of having to wake up early, I am careful not to eat in the evening, I store a few boxes of raisin bran, and then when I wake up I think ooh, so hungry!  raisin bran!  And I get up.

 

If there is nothing tasty waiting for me for breakfast, I'm sleeping another 3 hours.

That's awesome! 

[mathnerd]

I am a night owl and my life is finally manageable now. But, I started threads like yours a while back because I was living like you did. In addition to everything else suggested, I recommend checking what your Vitamin D3, Vitamin B12 and Ferritin levels are. When I had these troubles, it also turned out that I was really deficient in all of the three. My doctor put me on prescription strength dosages and monitored my levels until they came back up. My life is manageable, but, if I stopped supplementing, I am back to being unable to get up in the mornings and popping back into bed for extended morning sleep. Vitamin D3 especially affects mood and deficiency makes a person very demotivated to get up and out of bed.

These days, my DH works in an office that is far away from restaurants and would like to take lunch to work. I wake up early and pack his lunch even though he can do it himself because it gives me a reason and motivation to get out of bed. I drink coffee immediately and if I stay away from my bedroom for an hour, I can pull off a regular day's schedule. If I go anywhere near my bed, I go back in and sleep until 11:00 AM.

Good luck.

[OneStepAtATime]

Thank you for all of your ideas. TBH, I am nearly crying thinking of no snooze, immediate up, before 7:30.  :crying: It honestly sounds so overwhelmingly difficult. 

 

I'll have to look into a Keurig. I didn't know it could be used without the k-cups. I have my specific tea I like ;) I'm not into herbal stuff that they're more likely to have things for. I just like English breakfast tea. 

 

I'm at a loss thinking of something to look forward to in the morning. Morning and pleasure just don't go together in my mind :/ I guess maybe a book along with my tea sounds nice. Or it would if we weren't talking about 7am. 

 

So if I'm looking at 7am wake up then I would be going to bed at 11. So would screen be okay until 10? Watching a show on netflix after the kids go down is how I unwind. I'm big into geek tv and never have tv time during the day. I need that time, even if I have to drop to 1 episode a night instead of my usual 2 (or 3 or 4 :o ). Then I could read or do other non-screen things for another hour before going to bed. Is this reasonable? 

I drink English Breakfast Tea, Irish Breakfast Tea or Earl Grey every morning.  I use my Keurig to heat the water.  I don't have the single serving version but it still heats the water very quickly.  I can have my cup of tea ready to go almost immediately.  I just don't put a keurig cup in it.  The water still heats.  I select the size of mug I have, make sure the mug is under the water dispenser and I put the tea bag in the mug.  Water pours in, tea steeps, voila nice warm cup of tea ready to go.  My mom has the single serving Keurig.  It is much smaller so would fit in a bedroom easier.  

 

It sounds like part of the issue is that you are staying up watching a lot of TV then not getting a solid, restful sleep plus you are naturally a night owl anyway.  And now you have conditioned your body to automatically think snooze some more when the kids come in to wake you.  Everything will be fighting against you, physiologically.  That is why I say don't just turn on the lamp tomorrow, pick a specific date to start this process and commit to it for a certain length of time.  You are going to have to have several things in place for this to work.

 

I guess at this point I would be asking why you want to shift your sleep schedule.  If this is consistently causing issues with your family's ability to get anything done or you just really want everyone to be more in sync I understand why you want to shift.  Honestly, whatever reason is driving you to consider this, I commend you, but this will take significant commitment and effort over quite a bit of time.  It can absolutely be done but to do it right, with long term success in mind, you are going to need to make some fairly difficult changes.  

 

Lets start with your nighttime routine.  If you need TV to unwind, when do the kids go to bed?  I would not be watching TV at 10 if you are planning on being asleep by 11.  Frankly, if you need to be up by 7 I would be trying to be ASLEEP by 10:45pm at the latest, so bedtime routine started by 9:45pm and reading by 10:00pm at the latest to give your brain a chance to settle down and get drowsy.  You are going to have to reset your rhythms so past practices are going to undermine your attempts.  You may have to ditch your normal routines until you retrain your brain/body.  Otherwise they are going to trigger your already established reactions (such as "kids came in, must be time to snooze" or "well, I watched this one episode but goodness just one more won't hurt much, will it?").

 

If this is something you REALLY want to do, here is what I recommend before your start date:

 

1.  Get melatonin.

2.  Get out that lamp and read through the instructions to get familiar with it.

3.  Maybe get a water hotter or a single serving Keurig and set it up so you can have tea first thing in the morning.

4.  Consider watching an episode of your favorite program when you wake up in the morning if you have a way to do so instead of watching at night.

5.  Ditch night time TV watching past 9pm for the time being. (yes that makes things really hard at first but not doing so may make this endeavor nearly impossible to accomplish).

6.  Make a list of the things you need to do to get ready for bed and to get up in the morning.  Type them out and have them posted.  

 

Once all of those things are in place, start on your designated start date.  On that date do the following...

1.  Take melatonin at 5-6pm.  Don't expect this to make a big difference at first but it should help over time.

2.  Set up your lamp in the bedroom.  If it has a timer set the timer to start the lamp around 7am.

3.  Set your alarm for 7am.

4.  Think through in your own mind what you are going to do in the morning.  Picture yourself waking up and getting up.

5.  Have a really good book or audio book by your bedside.

6.  Have your tea maker ready to go.

7.  Pick out your clothes for the morning so you don't have to think about what to wear.

8.  Make sure your kitchen is clean, you know what you are doing for breakfast, and anything you will need for the next day is ready to go so you don't have to think about any of those things in the morning, either.  (You are trying to make sure that you don't subconsciously drag your feet because your brain is too tired to think through everything you need to do.)

8.  Start your bedtime routine, following your list, in time to be done with everything, including brushing teeth, getting dressed for bed, before you start your unwind plan and don't watch any TV after 9pm.  TV is a nice way to unwind for many and I totally get why you do it but this is messing with your brain function.  It is interfering with your brain/body winding down.  Find something else to do.  Maybe a hot bath or meditation or writing in a journal.  I realize none of that may be your thing but you may need to change what your wind down thing is.  Try out different options.  

8.  At 10ish read a book, listen to soothing music or white noise and don't stare at the clock.  The MINUTE you feel even a little sleepy put the book down, roll over and go to sleep.

9.  When the alarm goes off in the morning and the lamp goes off do NOT shut them off and go back to sleep.  Make sure you have to walk to shut off your alarm.  That will get the blood stirring a bit.  Fix your tea, read or watch TV, let your brain wake up, sit under that lamp for a bit, then get up and out of bed.  No snoozing.

 

Do the same thing again the next day.  And good luck.  

Edited January 3, 2018 by OneStepAtATime

[Seeking Squirrels]

I drink English Breakfast Tea, Irish Breakfast Tea or Earl Grey every morning.  I use my Keurig to heat the water.  I don't have the single serving version but it still heats the water very quickly.  I can have my cup of tea ready to go almost immediately.  I just don't put a keurig cup in it.  The water still heats.  I select the size of mug I have, make sure the mug is under the water dispenser and I put the tea bag in the mug.  Water pours in, tea steeps, voila nice warm cup of tea ready to go.  My mom has the single serving Keurig.  It is much smaller so would fit in a bedroom easier.  

 

It looks like these run about the same as the teasmade style ones, so I'll have to look into which might work better for me. 

 

It sounds like part of the issue is that you are staying up watching a lot of TV then not getting a solid, restful sleep plus you are naturally a night owl anyway.  And now you have conditioned your body to automatically think snooze some more when the kids come in to wake you.  Everything will be fighting against you, physiologically.  That is why I say don't just turn on the lamp tomorrow, pick a specific date to start this process and commit to it for a certain length of time.  You are going to have to have several things in place for this to work.

 

I guess at this point I would be asking why you want to shift your sleep schedule.  If this is consistently causing issues with your family's ability to get anything done or you just really want everyone to be more in sync I understand why you want to shift.  Honestly, whatever reason is driving you to consider this, I commend you, but this will take significant commitment and effort over quite a bit of time.  It can absolutely be done but to do it right, with long term success in mind, you are going to need to make some fairly difficult changes.  

 

I just want us all to be on a better schedule that will keep us on track. DD9 really needs more consistency than my schedule gives her. I'd like for it to not be as difficult to deal with when we have somewhere to be in the am. (Co-op starts in two weeks. 9:00am once a week, 20 minutes away.) I feel like we could accomplish a lot more with our day if we got moving earlier. It's not like I'm being productive enough with the evening hours to make up for such a late start. 

 

Lets start with your nighttime routine.  If you need TV to unwind, when do the kids go to bed?  I would not be watching TV at 10 if you are planning on being asleep by 11.  Frankly, if you need to be up by 7 I would be trying to be ASLEEP by 10:45pm at the latest, so bedtime routine started by 9:45pm and reading by 10:00pm at the latest to give your brain a chance to settle down and get drowsy.  You are going to have to reset your rhythms so past practices are going to undermine your attempts.  You may have to ditch your normal routines until you retrain your brain/body.  Otherwise they are going to trigger your already established reactions (such as "kids came in, must be time to snooze" or "well, I watched this one episode but goodness just one more won't hurt much, will it?").

 

Kids are in bed between 8:30 and 9:00. As of right now DD5 still needs me in her room until she's asleep, but we're working on that. 

 

If this is something you REALLY want to do, here is what I recommend before your start date:

 

1.  Get melatonin.

2.  Get out that lamp and read through the instructions to get familiar with it.

3.  Maybe get a water hotter or a single serving Keurig and set it up so you can have tea first thing in the morning.

4.  Consider watching an episode of your favorite program when you wake up in the morning if you have a way to do so instead of watching at night.

5.  Ditch night time TV watching past 9pm for the time being. (yes that makes things really hard at first but not doing so may make this endeavor nearly impossible to accomplish).

6.  Make a list of the things you need to do to get ready for bed and to get up in the morning.  Type them out and have them posted.  

 

Once all of those things are in place, start on your designated start date.  On that date do the following...

1.  Take melatonin at 5-6pm.  Don't expect this to make a big difference at first but it should help over time.

2.  Set up your lamp in the bedroom.  If it has a timer set the timer to start the lamp around 7am.

3.  Set your alarm for 7am.

4.  Think through in your own mind what you are going to do in the morning.  Picture yourself waking up and getting up.

5.  Have a really good book or audio book by your bedside.

6.  Have your tea maker ready to go.

7.  Pick out your clothes for the morning so you don't have to think about what to wear.

8.  Make sure your kitchen is clean, you know what you are doing for breakfast, and anything you will need for the next day is ready to go so you don't have to think about any of those things in the morning, either.  (You are trying to make sure that you don't subconsciously drag your feet because your brain is too tired to think through everything you need to do.)

8.  Start your bedtime routine, following your list, in time to be done with everything, including brushing teeth, getting dressed for bed, before you start your unwind plan and don't watch any TV after 9pm.  TV is a nice way to unwind for many and I totally get why you do it but this is messing with your brain function.  It is interfering with your brain/body winding down.  Find something else to do.  Maybe a hot bath or meditation or writing in a journal.  I realize none of that may be your thing but you may need to change what your wind down thing is.  Try out different options.  

8.  At 10ish read a book, listen to soothing music or white noise and don't stare at the clock.  The MINUTE you feel even a little sleepy put the book down, roll over and go to sleep.

9.  When the alarm goes off in the morning and the lamp goes off do NOT shut them off and go back to sleep.  Make sure you have to walk to shut off your alarm.  That will get the blood stirring a bit.  Fix your tea, read or watch TV, let your brain wake up, sit under that lamp for a bit, then get up and out of bed.  No snoozing.

 

Do the same thing again the next day.  And good luck.  

 

I don't know if I can do this.  :crying:  Just being honest. I see the wisdom in all of this and understand why, but I really don't know if I am capable. I *want* to be able to get up at 7, but I'm not sure I want it enough to have the willpower to follow through on all of this. 

 

I will have to think on this for a bit and figure out my priorities. 

 

Thank you for taking the time to help!!

[J-rap]

I'm sorry, that's rough.  That's my dh and one of my dd's, and in fact my dh's entire family.  They all have such a tough time waking up, whereas I can wake up, jump out of bed within 30 seconds, and be instantly wide awake.  I do think it's genetic.

 

What has helped my dh is to wake up to classical musical (as his alarm), and he gives himself about 10 minutes to listen to it before he has to get out of bed.  Then he allows himself time for a long shower.  Part of me doesn't understand that, because the 10 minutes wakeup plus the long shower could be exchanged for more time sleeping, if that's what you want!  But it's what helps him.

 

 

[Ausmumof3]

My natural sleep-wake cycle would be 2/3am - 10/11am. I have to fight hard to get to bed before 1am but I can usually make myself get there by 12. Waking up is SO HARD for me. It always has been. I was the kid getting yelled at constantly to get up. I was the teen regularly missing my bus. Whether it is 7 am or 10 am, whether I've had 5 hours sleep or 8 hours of sleep, I struggle to wake. Sometimes I honestly think I don't produce the wake-up hormone. I have to set 4-5 alarms 10-15 minutes apart in order to get up if we have to be somewhere by 9 or earlier.

 

Most mornings go like this:

Kids come in around 7:30-8:00 and wake me up. They ask if they can watch MLP and I say yes and fall back to sleep.

They occupy themselves well for a while and come back in some time around 8:30/9:00.

I struggle to wake up enough to interact with them. They often wake me several times over the next half an hour as they play on the bed and I keep falling back to sleep.

I finally feel conscious enough to tell them to get some breakfast and I grab my phone.

I play on my phone to wake up. I know this isn't a great habit as I'm just still laying in bed, but it forces my brain to start working. It makes me keep my eyes open so I stop falling back asleep.

I do still sometimes drift off again even with lights on, fan off, phone in hand. If I am able to force my legs out of bed, I often find myself lying back down again with no memory of deciding to lay back down. But most of the time my legs feel like lead.

I feel more tired than I did the night before when I went to bed. Every inch of me feels exhausted and the bed is just so comfortable (which it is not at night or through the night. I do not feel comfortable until around 5/6am. I toss and turn a lot before that). It feels like it's supposed to be time to go to sleep, not wake up.

I just CANT GET MOVING.

It's usually close to 10 before I am up.

 

Anyone BTDT? I keep telling myself to just adult-up and get up. But it's easier said than done. I just don't know what to do anymore to make myself able to get moving.

 

*FTR, a few months back I forced myself to go to bed at 10:30 every night for about 6 weeks. There was zero change with my ability to wake up in the morning.

Try to just move yourself from bed to an area of the house where you can get bright sunlight. Don't expect yourself to do anything else once you get there.

 

I struggle as well but am finding it easier now in summer than in winter. I honestly think for me just committing to getting up as soon as I wake up is the key. I don't have to do anything just get out of bed.

[Elizabeth86]

idk, but my dh is tbe exact same way and my first son seems to be a bit like his dad. I'm not sure what you can do, but it seems to me he really can't help it. He slept 4 hours on Christmas Eve because he was so afraid we wouldn't be able to get him up quickly enough and he didn't want to disappoint the kids having them wait on him. He takes about an hour of routine before he can fully function. I have no advice, just that we can relate to what you are saying. It seems like a real problem not just laziness or something.

[xixstar]

One Step has great advice and it looks like your response points out the biggest block  - why do you want to do this? Sounds like you're still discovering that and figuring it out, without a reason, I see no value in doing it. And it has to be a big enough why - getting up at 7am because you think you're supposed to or that "what a good mom" does or whatever, feels pointless to me. You're absolutely capable of it, but you have to have a real reason to want to, the benefit has to become greater than the pain - doesn't sound like you're anywhere near that point.

What about waking up at 8:30am? You could still follow the above steps but shift the hours by 1.5.  If your kids get to watch a show in the morning anyways, do they have to ask to do that? Let them automatically do that in the morning and not bug you until 8:30 so you can get your hours in.

I'm all for babysteps. I know that 5am is the best time of day for me to wake up -- but I've fallen away from that and right now i'm working back into it by getting up at 6am. I'm working it slower not because waking up is hard, but because it's harder for me to wrap up my evening routine earlier, say no to myself when I want to watch something and don't have time, and stick to turning off all screens by a set time (usually when my kids go to bed) -- all that sleep hygiene stuff really makes a difference. So this week, I'm shifting back from being up until midnight or later to heading to bed at 10 (which means getting there by 10:30 or so) -- next week, I'm sure I'll be going to sleep at 10, but babysteps this week because I have to adjust my evening routine to allow space for my morning one.

[StephanieZ]

The waking up part is always the hard part. 

 

I mean, who'd mind being up all night if you could spring out of bed and go at it for 20 hours?

 

My advice in the other thread was directly aimed at the critical problem of waking up.

 

Since you are "awake" but not "UP" at a pretty early time, I'd put a 10,000 LUX light by your bed and turn it on as soon as you wake up, dozing in and out with 10,000 LUX helping you become more wakeful and helping to regulate your body for the next 24 hours. It can work even if your eyes are closed as long as you are facing in the direction of the lamp, as the rays can go through your eyelids. 

 

And, do everything else I wrote up in the other thread. 

 

Literally, this is the exact problem we went to the sleep doctor for. 

 

Delayed Phase Sleep Disorder includes all sorts of hormonal and other biological variations from the norm. Normal bodies do certain things that regulate their circadian rhythm. Melatonin, other hormones, body temperature . . . all vary on a 24 hour clock that "tells you" when to be wakeful and when not to be.

 

The first night ds tried the 5PM tiny dose of melatonin, he crashed asleep by 9PM and then "just woke up!!
at 7AM. He was perplexed, lol. And very encouraged, as was I.

 

[Cindy in FL.]

My ds has a hard time waking up as well. He downloaded an alarm app that requires you to do a complex math problem, get out of bed to take a picture of a particular object, or do some other task to get the alarm to turn off. Maybe something like that would be helpful.

[Cosmos]

That sounds really hard. It makes me have more sympathy for my teenage ds who has always had a hard time waking up. I still have to get him up in the mornings, even though he is 17. I don't know what he is going to do when he goes to college.

 

Anyway, as I was reading the thread, this occurred to me. I don't know anything about sleep issues, so maybe this is a terrible idea, but I'll throw it out anyway. Is there anyway you could do your tv watching in the morning in bed? Doing it at night is bad for getting you into sleep mode, plus you need a long time to wake up in the morning and something to look forward to. Would tv work for that? An hour of tv to slowly wake up, maybe do some stretches, and then get up.

[StephanieZ]

That sounds really hard. It makes me have more sympathy for my teenage ds who has always had a hard time waking up. I still have to get him up in the mornings, even though he is 17. I don't know what he is going to do when he goes to college.

 

Anyway, as I was reading the thread, this occurred to me. I don't know anything about sleep issues, so maybe this is a terrible idea, but I'll throw it out anyway. Is there anyway you could do your tv watching in the morning in bed? Doing it at night is bad for getting you into sleep mode, plus you need a long time to wake up in the morning and something to look forward to. Would tv work for that? An hour of tv to slowly wake up, maybe do some stretches, and then get up.

 

Well, based on my experience, I'd get him to a sleep doctor NOW.

 

I regret that I didn't do that when ds was in high school. I kept thinking it was behavioral and he'd get over it . . . 

 

Nope, went off to college, did great except sometimes he slept through classes and even exams. Brought him home, got him to sleep doctor, will start again next fall. Wish we'd taken it as a serious medical issue sooner . . .

[regentrude]

Do you sleep with your windows uncovered, so your body can get cues from natural sunlight? 

Also, do you exercise in the late afternoon, so your body is physically tired and has an easier time falling asleep? (Don't exercise immediately before bed though; for many people, exercise has an invigorating effect. But a few hours later when fatigue sets in....)

Edited January 3, 2018 by regentrude

[Zinnia]

I feel like this every day.  My dh laughs because everyday, I say, "omg, this is awful, do I really have to get up? I hate my life."  Every.single.morning.  :)

 

I just do it anyway.  For a long time, I had a non-trustworthy toddler that was awake at 5:00 in the morning.  And now that same kid has a carpool that comes at 6:55.  I get up with him at 6 to make his breakfast and his lunch and talk to him before the day starts.  So, I guess I felt like I had no choice but to do it, so i did/do.  

 

My body easily wakes now (in the last 6 months, I've started waking 1 minute before the alarm), but I still hate the morning, and I still say "omg, why?" every single day.  I still feel sluggish for the first 30 minutes or so.  But, for me, it does go away.

 

And honestly, I feel like this when I sleep until 10am or if I sleep until 6.  The first 30 minutes are toast, and the first 2 hours are sluggish.  So I figure it doesn't really matter what time I get up, this is just me, and I do what works best with my family.

 

 

[Ravin]

Honestly, I must ask: Why do you feel you need to? If even if you get vertical you're not much use to anyone, and you don't absolutely have to in order to keep a roof over your head, why not set yourself a reasonable wake-up time for your own body? Arrange the kids' schedules accordingly: morning is quiet independent work/play/breakfast time. Teach them to leave you alone short of an emergency ("fire, flood, or a lot of blood" as we used to tell DD when she was little). 9 and 5 are old enough to get themselves breakfast and hang out with quiet toys or a workbox or whatever will work for you and them. Then, get yourself up when you're rested and ready to get up, and make the most of the afternoon/evening.

[OneStepAtATime]

One Step has great advice and it looks like your response points out the biggest block  - why do you want to do this? Sounds like you're still discovering that and figuring it out, without a reason, I see no value in doing it. And it has to be a big enough why - getting up at 7am because you think you're supposed to or that "what a good mom" does or whatever, feels pointless to me. You're absolutely capable of it, but you have to have a real reason to want to, the benefit has to become greater than the pain - doesn't sound like you're anywhere near that point.

 

What about waking up at 8:30am? You could still follow the above steps but shift the hours by 1.5.  If your kids get to watch a show in the morning anyways, do they have to ask to do that? Let them automatically do that in the morning and not bug you until 8:30 so you can get your hours in.

 

I'm all for babysteps. I know that 5am is the best time of day for me to wake up -- but I've fallen away from that and right now i'm working back into it by getting up at 6am. I'm working it slower not because waking up is hard, but because it's harder for me to wrap up my evening routine earlier, say no to myself when I want to watch something and don't have time, and stick to turning off all screens by a set time (usually when my kids go to bed) -- all that sleep hygiene stuff really makes a difference. So this week, I'm shifting back from being up until midnight or later to heading to bed at 10 (which means getting there by 10:30 or so) -- next week, I'm sure I'll be going to sleep at 10, but babysteps this week because I have to adjust my evening routine to allow space for my morning one.

Agreed, and especially the bolded is the biggest problem with trying.  You have reasons but those reasons are not strong enough motivation.

 

 

Also, there are several issues going on here that are undermining any effort you may make to change your sleep rhythm.  I wonder also if you are an introvert?  I'm thinking that being around the kids all day might be draining, too.  Not that you don't love and enjoy your kids but that being "on" for hours on end may drain your batteries so you are needing several hours at night to charge them again.  If so, this will be even harder.  Things will also be affected if you naturally need more sleep but you seem to be able to function on about 8-9?  

 

FWIW, my dad was a night owl AND an early riser but he didn't need much sleep.  He could go to bed at midnight and wake up at 5am bright eyed and ready to go.  Mom?  Nope.  She needed more sleep AND was not a morning person.  She was a teacher, though, so she had no choice but to get up.  It was a slog for her.  She really needed to be in bed by 9pm at the very latest to be able to get up by 6am.  I could always tell when Dad had gotten up.  Lights on, TV on, radio on because he hated the quiet.  He would also adjust the thermostat to make it cooler if it was summer.  He did better if he was cool.  [For the record, although I never told him, mine was the only room in the house where I could hear and see all the lights and noise, but he wasn't deliberately inconsiderate.  He just didn't realize that I could hear him.] That would last no more than half an hour because he could get up and ready for work very quickly.  Once he left Mom would go back through the house turning it all off again so she could have quiet and dark a bit longer while her brain slowly slogged through her morning routine.  Because her brain was not really "there" yet she needed at least an hour and a half to get ready.  She still does, come to think of it.  They just had very different physiologies.  :)

 

 

If you really, really want this then I agree with xixstar maybe shifting a smaller amount would be more doable.  And with the kids waking you up to ask permission for things you aren't getting your best sleep which seems to be in the AM.  So here is another list (I do better with lists, sorry).  Maybe try the following:

 

1.   As mentioned in the above post, maybe try to shift to 8:30am as your normal wake time since that seems more doable physically and psychologically than 7am.  It will be easier to wake up for co-op if you don't have to shift SO far from your norm even though you will still be getting up earlier than you normally need.  Make a list of things your kids can do on their own in the morning and make it clear that no one is to wake you before 8:30am. Can they read a clock? 

2.  Take melatonin at 6pm. 

3.  Shift the bedtime for your children by half an hour and make it a priority.  Set an alarm if you need to.  If routines and structure are hard for you maybe your DH can help with this.  Do what you can to start winding them down for bed a bit earlier than normal.  Make sure the 5 year old especially is getting teeth brush, pjs on, whatever is part of the routine by 8:00pm then get her in her bed by 8:15pm.  Sit with her for the time needed for her to go to sleep.  This may take a bit to shift their time since they don't have to get up the next day at a certain time but I would try.

4.  Make sure YOU are completely ready for bed BEFORE you start watching TV.  Otherwise going to bed will still require effort and your brain may talk you into delaying.

5. Commit to only watching one TV show a night.  Have all screens off by 10pm.   

6.  Play some white noise or soothing music, read a book and try to wind down but don't try to go to sleep until you feel sleepy.  

7.  In the morning have an alarm go off at 8:30am. 

8.  Turn on that lamp.  

9.  Try to be out of bed by 9am-9:15 am on non co-op days.

 

And I agree with another poster that also you might go get a physical to see if you are needing some supplements.

 

Hugs and good luck, whatever you decide to do.    :)

Edited January 3, 2018 by OneStepAtATime

[skyday]

My ds has a hard time waking up as well. He downloaded an alarm app that requires you to do a complex math problem, get out of bed to take a picture of a particular object, or do some other task to get the alarm to turn off. Maybe something like that would be helpful.

 

Do you happen to know the name of that app? 

[LucyStoner]

That looks really good but unfortunately out of our price range right now. But I'm going to keep it in mind for if I'm still struggling after everything else.

 

 

Yeah, it wasn't really in our budget either but truthfully I was just plain desperate. The only thing worse than dragging myself out of bed on too little sleep is standing around for an hour afterwards dragging a teenager out of bed. :P

 

Desperation born out of necessity. Unfortunately, we have to leave at 6:45am (ideal) or 7 at the very latest (no wiggle room, may be late at that point) to get him to his preferred magnet type high school. 2 of those days I am dropping him off at the carpool meet up point about 15 minutes from our home and can come back home and rest but 3 of those mornings, I drive the carpool through the eye of the local traffic storm to drop them off by 8am. This was so not my homeschooling life (he was homeschooled from

2nd-8th grade and I still homeschool little brother) but he was accepted to a very sought after high school that is a perfect fit for him so it's a gotta do what we gotta do situation.

 

I looked carefully at the $25-50 ones where the light isn't a therapy level light but had this feeling that it might be a case where I would have wished that I spent the larger sum instead fairly soon and I didn't want to spend $50-100 (times two) as a precursor to spending about $220 on two of these after various discounts.

 

We are on day two of their use (back to school was 1/2/18) and I just dropped him and his carpool buddy off at 7:55 am and more significantly, there wasn't any stress about running late to carpool AND he wasn't rushed to get out of the car. He even said "thanks for driving me!" when he got out, which was a first. He got up and got dressed much more easily than was the norm pre-break. We were driving away from home at 6:55am, instead of 7:05 which makes a big difference both in terms of being a reliable carpool showup and not making him late to his zero hour elective. I'm cautiously optimistic about this continuing to improve. We will see!

[LucyStoner]

Do you happen to know the name of that app?

Yes. I need this app!

[Chris in VA]

Haven't read every post, but two things occur to me--

 

Sometimes the light from your phone can have a negative effect on the part of your brain that regulates sleep. So do you have that blue light or whatever it is on your phone so you don't get affected by it at night? It could be keeping you up.

 

I have heard that the time you eat during the day plays a major part in your wake-sleep cycle. People who try to adjust to different time zones--have jet lag, or whatever--get used to the new zone more quickly if they eat at the new times. Maybe shifting dinner earlier would help, or some sort of shift like that. I imagine you are trying to shift your body clock somewhat, so this seems to be like you are trying to adjust to a new time zone. IDK, just another way to think of it. <3   I'm sorry it's hard. 

[regentrude]

Another thought: how much time do you spend outside in the middle of the day?

One of the key things to get over jet lag is to be outside in midday sunlight; that helps set the inner clock. 

[OneStepAtATime]

Another thought: how much time do you spend outside in the middle of the day?

One of the key things to get over jet lag is to be outside in midday sunlight; that helps set the inner clock. 

Good point.  I go to sleep more easily if I have had exercise AND been in sunlight during the day.

[regentrude]

Good point.  I go to sleep more easily if I have had exercise AND been in sunlight during the day.

 

The circadian rhythm needs the environmental cues of the daylight cycle to work properly.

I wonder how much our inside lifestyle with artificial light sources contributes to the many sleep disorders.

 

OP: do you have the same issues when you spend several days entirely outside, like on a camping trip for example?

[Storygirl]

I am the same way. Very hard to wake up in the morning, no matter how much or little sleep I have had. I try not to nap often, but when I do, I also have trouble waking up from naps and usually feel worse than when I went to sleep.

 

I am always more tired when I wake up in the mornings than when I go to sleep at night. When my kids were little, and I had to wake up in the middle of the night with them, I would sometimes cry when morning came, because it was so hard to get out of bed. Back then, I would keep a pack of those tiny toddler sized juice boxes (2 or 3 oz?) in my bedside table to have first thing before climbing out of bed. I don't drink coffee or tea.

 

Now I have to get up between 6:15 and 6:30 daily to get my kids off to school. I have a sunrise alarm clock that gradually brightens the room before I have to be out of bed. It's actually my second one, because the first one died, and I don't like this one as well. It still helps.

 

Also, DH can get out of bed first thing when he wakes, so he gets up first, and I wake up gradually while he is taking his shower.

 

None of that makes it easier. I get up because I have to, not because it is easy.

 

I've always been this way. Going to sleep earlier does not make getting up easier, though it does make it easier to get through the day when I'm not as sleep deprived.

[LucyStoner]

Do you sleep with your windows uncovered, so your body can get cues from natural sunlight?

Also, do you exercise in the late afternoon, so your body is physically tired and has an easier time falling asleep? (Don't exercise immediately before bed though; for many people, exercise has an invigorating effect. But a few hours later when fatigue sets in....)

For those of us in northern locations, there may not be any natural sunlight to get. It's still pretty dark for us until after 7am.

 

In the OP shoes, I would probably be aiming for an 8 or 8:30 wake up rather than a 7am one though.

[regentrude]

For those of us in northern locations, there may not be any natural sunlight to get. It's still pretty dark for us until after 7am.

 

In winter, yes. I always found getting up much harder when it is dark outside.

But in summer, you will have early sunlight, even more so in the North.

[LucyStoner]

Honestly, I must ask: Why do you feel you need to? If even if you get vertical you're not much use to anyone, and you don't absolutely have to in order to keep a roof over your head, why not set yourself a reasonable wake-up time for your own body? Arrange the kids' schedules accordingly: morning is quiet independent work/play/breakfast time. Teach them to leave you alone short of an emergency ("fire, flood, or a lot of blood" as we used to tell DD when she was little). 9 and 5 are old enough to get themselves breakfast and hang out with quiet toys or a workbox or whatever will work for you and them. Then, get yourself up when you're rested and ready to get up, and make the most of the afternoon/evening.

It sounds like the kids are seeking her out at 7:30 and then again after 9AM. To me that indicates she may be trying to change to better meet the needs of her kids. It's just not workable for all kids to be independent in the AM for 3+ hours after they are naturally waking up. Some kids, sure. All kids? Definitely not my experience. Even when both were homeschooled and there was no godforsaken carpool structure, my sons needed me up well before 10:00 am to be at their best and to use their most productive time of day most effectively.

 

I do agree that 7am doesn't need to be the goal though. That's super early if there's simply nowhere to be. I think sending them away at 7:30 sounds fine but if they are coming back in after their shows, I wouldn't personally want to make it a habit to snooze through their next bid for attention at 9am or thereabouts.

 

I have fluctuated from a night owl to an insomniac to a morning person at different times throughout life. Hormones, mental health, routines, family needs all play a factor. I can sleep right through bomb siren level alarms so I've found that it's more about sleep hygenie and light than force of will.

[LucyStoner]

In winter, yes. I always found getting up much harder when it is dark outside.

But in summer, you will have early sunlight, even more so in the North.

Yes, getting up for the sunlight is one reason I dragged my arse to outdoor 5:30 AM boot camp for years. Hat was way easier in June than December of course, because the light helped wake me up. Unfortunately, I can't do that sort of bootcamp now due to both high cost and schedule. I try to mimic it by including a walk in my morning routine before my kids get up.

 

Changing body temperatures also helps reset one's body to wakefulness. So getting outside, taking a shower or even just opening a window and taking off your covers can all help.

Edited January 3, 2018 by LucyStoner

[mathnerd]

Another thought: how much time do you spend outside in the middle of the day?

One of the key things to get over jet lag is to be outside in midday sunlight; that helps set the inner clock. 

Really? That is something new to me. Which also explains how my life is manageable now since I walk outside during lunch time. I always thought that sun exposure in the AM reset the inner clock. I never knew that mid day sun is the right thing for sleeplessness and jet lag. Thank you.