What to do with a high school student who is failing classes?

[GoodGrief]

I sent you a message and am now reading Matryoshka's reply. I agree that extracurricular activities can be hugely helpful in providing a sense of purpose and some focus, though the inclination is to pull the student from these when the grades tank. For my daughter it was theater and volunteering for the youth court that kept her going.

[wintermom]

It sounds like you've had the chance to learn a great deal about what your ds's strengths and weaknesses are, and you can work toward making a personal educational plan that works for him.

 

Strengths:

- he is smart and capable

- he knows what he wants to do 

- he is compliant and willing to work with you

- he is still very young, and there is no reason he MUST finish highschool by age 18

 

What hasn't worked:

- certain classroom situations

- on-line courses independently

- unlimited phone access

 

 

Then take a look at all kinds of educational options in your region. In my area, we have access to alternative high schools where the students can focus on one subject at a time in a classroom setting, and finish the course at their own pace. The teachers mark exercises and provide feedback, instruction as needed, and labs for science courses.  This is working out very well for my dd.

 

I would also explore options of having you ds do an internship with the field of his career aspirations. It's an excellent way to get a picture of exactly what the day-to-day work in certain jobs are actually like, and in my country it is a requirement for students before applying for vet studies. My dd currently has an internship in an animal hospital, where she can observe medical procedures, as well as learn all the preparation for instruments, consultations with clients, filing, etc.  

[StephanieZ]

Well, I would NOT have him chill the rest of the year academically. I'd put him in classes that can be self-paced, and I'd supervise him very, very closely. 

 

My teens have had sulky/don't get things done stages . . . I get how hard it is.

 

I'd put him in therapy ASAP. As intensive and good quality as you can find and afford. Twice a week if possible. I'd do family therapy (separately) as well if feasible. I'd make it my tip top priority to figure out the root of the issues that got him expelled and that led him to failing his classes at home/online as well.

 

I'd drug test him (you can do this at home with tests ordered online), and if he tested positive for anything more than pot, I'd get him to a drug counselor/program ASAP. If he tested positive for only pot, I'd not bother with the rehab/counselor, but I'd still start supervising him much closer (essentially I'd treat it similarly to catching him drinking). 

 

I wouldn't try to get him to get a PT job until he was in good therapy for a few weeks and I had some idea WTF was going on with him.

 

I'd confiscate electronics and lock them down . . . I'd allow access for some hour(s) each day at specific time, under my supervision. Say, in the kitchen from 7-8AM and 5-6PM while I cooked and cleaned, or similar. I'd allow more access if/when he was adequately progressing in his schooling. 

 

 

I'd plan to supervise all schoolwork very closely from here on out. If you use online classes, then you'll have to be willing to follow his progress daily, understand the websites, etc. I'd withhold privileges (electronics, etc.) until he had done his day's worth of work properly. I'd offer rewards (allowance? driving?) if he is working adequately. 

 

Key is CLOSE SUPERVISION. 

 

BTDT, you have to understand his assignments and check them every day . . .

 

[fourisenough]

In regard to the part-time job suggestion: I would not allow him to work in any situation where he is likely to find trouble. Restaurants can be particularly rough environments (unhealthy lifestyles including drug use are rampant- I know a several friends who picked up drug, alcohol, and tobacco habits while working in restaurants). If he wants to work, I would ensure he is under the close supervision of a trusted adult and in an innocuous environment like a JCC/YMCA working as a lifeguard or camp counselor, etc.

 

With regard to the academic work, he needs constant mentoring/modeling and direct supervision at all times. You'll have to figure out if that's something that can be done at home or if you need to outsource that. We have an interesting place that recently opened near us. Not sure if there is one near you, but something like this might be worth looking into: https://www.brightmontacademy.com/

 

But, above all else, I would prioritize his mental health. Absolutely have him evaluated by a psychiatrist and require that he follow up with any recommended therapy/medical treatment.

 

Hugs and best wishes for peace and progress.

[MotherGoose]

Thank you all for responding so quickly and compassionately.

 

To answer your collective questions. We had found him a therapist (who takes our insurance - like finding hen's teeth, even in a large city like Boston. We've had no trouble finding someone for our marriage counseling!). He went for about eight months and the therapist told us that our son is very confident about his abilities and goals, but without concrete ways to get to those goals and he was unwilling to figure out how to get there. He was resistant to family therapy. About a month ago our son told the therapist that he wasn't interested in talking to him anymore and stopped talking to him. The therapist told us if he isn't going to talk, it isn't worth his or our time/efforts to get him to open up.

 

He has become less oppositional at least with me. With his father, he still butts heads more. I can get him to talk a little bit. I can see he is stressed by our marital issues (separate, but enmeshed with his issues, and thank G-d, getting much better with our own therapy). I do tell him that we are using therapy to help our marriage and that it would have been helpful if he had used therapy to do the same with his life.

 

He has toured the school (and the previous university at which my husband worked) so he knows exactly what he has to do to get in. What he doesn't know is that the university is more lenient with faculty dependent admissions, but at a monetary cost. They can get in on a probationary basis, take classes at another institution (at parental cost of course) and then with good grades get into the university fully.

 

He got into a vet high school program at our region's vet school this summer and the admissions people told them what they have to do to get in (10% admission rate!). He was surprised when Mom was right! LOL

 

He owns and pays for his own phone. He got it without our permission many months ago. I offered to get him one over a year ago, but he demurred because it would be under our control. I offered the same offer last month when my DH and I moved to smartphones. I do have control over the computer router and it does turn off at midnight for him. I did get him to put away the phone and computer at 11:30pm for the last week or so to segue way to bed by midnight. But when I don't ride herd on him, he won't.

 

I've offering to have weekly (or more) mentor meetings. He won't take me up on them. Men around us who love him have offered to help him and mentor him, nope.

 

I'm willing to be the baddie, but how do you take away the phone and computer of a kid almost a foot taller than you? I got him to trim his usage but take it away? I want him working, working out, doing good someplace and then fun stuff, preferably with good kids/people and/or his family. I've jettisoned the idea of him re-discovering religion again, and have enrolled him in an expensive but terrific cooking series with lots of unkosher foods. He has a love of cooking so he is enjoying the series, but I am loath to spend another $500 on a six week class if he cost us time and money in all these classes we just dropped.

 

Honestly, I told him to drop out and study for the GED (or whatever it is called). I'm not sure how that would affect his admission possibilities, but if he doesn't want to do high school, this is one way to finish.

Said gently and with hugs: if your son was addicted to drugs and it was causing such upheaval in his life would you Just say oh well he's buying them with his own money so what can I do? He's still a minor living in your house. I don't mean wrestle the phone from him, but you can just confiscate all devices.

[Bootsie]

 

I have no idea how similar my youngest is to your ds - but she had a similar sleep schedule to his this summer (somewhere near dawn to about 3pm).  She spent a ton of time on screens.  And she admitted she gets depressed in the summer.  But me trying to regulate her sleep or her media is just a huge fail.  What has helped her is a regular schedule of outside the house activities.

 

Trying to regulate sleep and screens never accomplished much positive with my children either.  I think some people just naturally have a different sleep pattern.  I have a relative who is in her 40's staying with me for a couple of weeks before moving for a new job.  I don't think that she has been up before noon since she got her.  She is a highly successful professional and can get up for work if she has to, but she is the first to admit that she is not very productive at 9:00am.  My college-aged daughter is not into screens, but whenever she has the chance she will stay up until the wee hours of the morning reading and sleep until early afternoon.  One of my best performing college students this semester was talking to me this week about how he drives his mom crazy that he can't get to sleep until about 4:00am, but he has learned not to take any classes before noon--he studies between midnight and 4:00am every day.  

 

I have also found limiting screen usage problematic.  If I would not be concerned about an equal amount of time being spent reading a book, I can't logically make the argument that the child needs to be spending time interacting with people.  If the child is playing multi-player games, at least on some level, he is interacting with other humans in the way many other teens interact.  I don't like that type of interaction, personally, but if I take it away from my child I am taking a way that many other teens interact and ostracizing him from the people I am telling him to interact with.  Screens are how the other young people I want my child to interact with communicate; it is how my child learns about activities outside the house.  It is how my child explores hobbies.  

 

I have found it much better to try to promote the things I would like my child to be doing rather than trying to manage the problems of sleep and screens.  When the other things fall into place, the sleep and screens tend to work themselves out.  

[Pen]

While I'd put dealing with screen addiction and emotional and physical health issues first, I also want to comment on the schooling.

 

I think it likely would be helpful for you to get some evaluation of your own ds, to know what he is able to do, reasonably, academically.  He may not be up to multiple AP classes as an 11th grader (or 12th either), no matter what his former classmates may be doing.  Or he may have some problem that makes it harder for him, and which could even be at some level behind his acting out with behavior or addictions.

 

AP classes and "selective" college or uni  may not be needed for his goal to be a vet.

 

I suggest you and he look into what would be needed to become a vet, if that is a serious goal.

 

I don't understand if the place your dh is at would give him a free-ride for tuition because your dh works there, or whether it is just that your dh wants him to go there and would pay for him to go...   But it may be that it is not a right sort of fit for your ds.  And your schedule for him with 2 APs may not be a right fit for him.

 

We live in a rural area, and, frankly, our area public high school does not even regularly offer any AP classes, and yet, some kids every so often, do manage to do well at the average tier of classes it does offer, get accepted to a decent college or our state university, and do well enough to go to vet school.  Possibly being in a rural area and working with large animals is a helpful background for those who want a vet career.  But it is clear to me that many APs and a prestigious college is not the only road to become a vet.

 

 

[Bluegoat]

I don't think homeschooling is working well for him.  I know you say your public schools are not good - are they dangerous not good or just not great academics not good?  I think the accountability of a live class, whether public school or DE at a community college, would be much better than an online class with an academic series you've basically chosen for him, for which he obviously has little enthusiasm or ability to self-regulate enough to get the work done.  

 

Don't make him study for the PSAT.  Why?  he's not going to be national merit.  He might study for the ACT/SAT just fine, because it actually means something.

 

Is it possible he really doesn't want to go to his father's university and become a vet, but just tells you this to get you off his back?  

 

Have you looked for another therapist for him, or other options for helping his mood/cognitive/behavior issues?  The first one may not have been what he needed.

 

Yeah, this is along the lines I was thinking - online classes....  I think they don't work for many adults, much less teens.  I'd seriously consider whether the public school would realistically do more for him, even if the program isn't great.

 

Also - as far as the vet thing - it might be in a bit he'll pull it together and get there - boys often mature later.  But it also is very common for kids to have an ambition that they really don't have the right personality for.  And that includes, just not driven enough.

 

He sounds to me actually a bit like some of the young guys I saw in the army, who really got a lot out of it.  So something like that, with a lot of scaffolding, and significant mental and physical focus, might be something to think about.

[Arcadia]

I think it likely would be helpful for you to get some evaluation of your own ds, to know what he is able to do, reasonably, academically. He may not be up to multiple AP classes as an 11th grader (or 12th either), no matter what his former classmates may be doing. Or he may have some problem that makes it harder for him, and which could even be at some level behind his acting out with behavior or addictions.

 

Both my kids have gone through evaluations with psychologists and their standardized test scores are consistently higher than their test scores. Younger boy doesn’t do well daily because he is easily distracted and has some executive function issues (forgot about a German test) while older boy gets bored and underperform (he just typed 8*2=7 for a chemistry quiz and had marks deducted).

 

My health issues in high school years makes it exhausting to do well in daily work, I was sleeping in class and having medical appointments to figure out what’s wrong by process of elimination (blood draws and x-rays). I did do very well for the college entrance exams because those were two weeks out of two years work and I took Tylenol/Benadryl during exams to suppress allergies symptoms.

 

So even evaluations may not provide a complete picture and they cost a lot :(

[Penelope]

Yeah, this is along the lines I was thinking - online classes.... I think they don't work for many adults, much less teens. I'd seriously consider whether the public school would realistically do more for him, even if the program isn't great.

 

Also - as far as the vet thing - it might be in a bit he'll pull it together and get there - boys often mature later. But it also is very common for kids to have an ambition that they really don't have the right personality for. And that includes, just not driven enough.

.

I thought this, too.

 

I am not sure, though, that public school or DE is a complete solution for the screens problem. In person classes will help with the distractions during instructional time, but some still require significant use of screens outside of class time, in the form of online learning systems that are adjunct to the textbook, and/or research and/or submission of assignments.

Edited October 21, 2017 by Penelope

[Lanny]

<snip>

 Possibly being in a rural area and working with large animals is a helpful background for those who want a vet career.  But it is clear to me that many APs and a prestigious college is not the only road to become a vet.

 

Interesting topic about Vets for Large Animals. There is a huge need for them. Texas Tech University wants to build a Vet school with that emphasis, in Amarillo.  I haven't read anything about it recently, and it may be "on hold".   I think what they want to do is   patterned after a Vet. school somewhere in Canada?  Not sure if the TX legislature has approved funds for that or what progress has been made, as I write this.

[Reefgazer]

I think vigorous exercise is helpful, especially for boys.

I sent you a message and am now reading Matryoshka's reply. I agree that extracurricular activities can be hugely helpful in providing a sense of purpose and some focus, though the inclination is to pull the student from these when the grades tank. For my daughter it was theater and volunteering for the youth court that kept her going.

 

[Arcadia]

Interesting topic about Vets for Large Animals. There is a huge need for them. Texas Tech University wants to build a Vet school with that emphasis, in Amarillo. I haven't read anything about it recently, and it may be "on hold".

CalPoly has a nice pre-veterinary program too as well as a beef cattle program.

 

“The on-campus veterinarians, besides mentoring students as their teachers and advisors, provide the health and vet care for Cal Poly’s animals more than 100 horses, 400 head of cattle, 100 ewes, 35 sows, a tortoise colony and thousands of birds. Students have access to all of these animals and the opportunity to assist and observe the veterinarians as they care for them.â€

https://animalscience.calpoly.edu/AboutUs/AreasOfStudy/prevet_medicine

 

“The beef cattle program is one of the largest animal programs in the Animal Science Department. With over 300 purebred Angus and commercial cows on more than 4,000 acres of land, this program gives students the opportunity to not only learn about the beef industry but also acquire first-hand experience working in the field. Cal Poly’s undergraduate students are able to work with and manage the cattle, learning skills in artificial insemination, embryo transfer, calving and other activities that are usually only available to graduate students at most universities.â€

https://animalscience.calpoly.edu/AboutUs/AreasOfStudy/beef

[...................]

I agree with the army idea, long term, that would be a great goal...

[Pen]

Interesting topic about Vets for Large Animals. There is a huge need for them. Texas Tech University wants to build a Vet school with that emphasis, in Amarillo.  I haven't read anything about it recently, and it may be "on hold".   I think what they want to do is   patterned after a Vet. school somewhere in Canada?  Not sure if the TX legislature has approved funds for that or what progress has been made, as I write this.

 

 

I don't know anything about TX program. But my uncle is a vet who, like you, moved to another country where he does any size animal veterinary work.  I gather from him that it has been the case for a while that there are not enough large animal vets, not in many parts of USA, and not in part of Europe where he is.  Few people go into it in first place, and then I gather also that because it is harder physically, there can be earlier retirement from it.  That is certainly the case in our area where several older guys who handled large animals have retired from the large animal part of it with no one to replace them, such that signs on offices which used to indicate handling all varieties of animal now read 'dog and cat'.  There is still one vet practice in our area which specializes in horses, and one other vet who I know will see cattle, sheep, goats, etc., as well as dogs and cats, but I think that is it in several hundred square miles.  So, unless that changes, someone with reasonable academic background, but strong skills with and interest in large animal practice perhaps might find that they have a better chance than 10% of being admitted to vet school--unless a lot realize that and it changes.   I am on west coast, where I believe both OSU and UCDavis have large animal training as significant parts of their vet schools. 

[Lanny]

I don't know anything about TX program. But my uncle is a vet who, like you, moved to another country where he does any size animal veterinary work.  I gather from him that it has been the case for a while that there are not enough large animal vets, not in many parts of USA, and not in part of Europe where he is.  Few people go into it in first place, and then I gather also that because it is harder physically, there can be earlier retirement from it.  That is certainly the case in our area where several older guys who handled large animals have retired from the large animal part of it with no one to replace them, such that signs on offices which used to indicate handling all varieties of animal now read 'dog and cat'.  There is still one vet practice in our area which specializes in horses, and one other vet who I know will see cattle, sheep, goats, etc., as well as dogs and cats, but I think that is it in several hundred square miles.  So, unless that changes, someone with reasonable academic background, but strong skills with and interest in large animal practice perhaps might find that they have a better chance than 10% of being admitted to vet school--unless a lot realize that and it changes.   I am on west coast, where I believe both OSU and UCDavis have large animal training as significant parts of their vet schools. 

 

There is an enormous need for Large Animal Vets.   Years ago, we knew someone who'd gone from here (Colombia) to Texas A&M and I think he did a Post-Graduate thing in one particular breed of Cattle. He is an "expert" on those Cattle.   I believe the Vet. we use here, that her husband does a lot of Large Animal work.  

 

There's probably far more money to be made by Vets. who do Small Animal care, but the Food Supply is going to have huge problems, if they do not get more Vets. to go into Large Animal practice.

 

The Vet. I used in TX did take care of Large Animals also. I guess it depends upon where one lives. Where we live now, there are a lot of people with Horses, and there are Cattle nearby.

[freesia]

Yael, it is so hard. I'm sorry for your struggle.

 

I have a ds who has a low tipping point for screens. Unfortunately, he loves them. It is an addiction for him and, when he has too much, he displays addictive behaviour--lying, over reacting to cutting back, withdrawl behavior.  It's scarey.  This summer I read Reset Your Child's Brain, which really helped me continue to have resolve in this matter and even to cut back more.  He is doing so well.  When all his friends or online (and even most of his irl friend interaction is online) he becomes depressed and anxious and yet desperate to maintain those relationships.

 

We have the following strictures now and I can't tell you how well it is going>

 

1. He has 3 online classes, but, for the most part he has to do all online portions between 9-11--sometimes 12. He can download lectures and upload articles for later.  I control the internet to all devices via our router.  We have consequences for "bopping around online" during this time.  And yes, I have to mostly be in the same room as him during htis time and, yes, it is a pain in the neck.

 

2.  All screens are in our room at 10. There is no internet use out of public rooms.  Sunday is our sabbath and there is no screen use.

 

3.  One hour of social media time on Saturday and Monday.  One hour that can be used for gaming Tuesday-Friday.  Since he is doing so well, I now allow him to Skype his best irl friend during his school internet time if he gets his work done.  No skyping internet friends at this time.

 

4.  He needs to get out of the house.   A lot. This was true when he was young and I thought it had changed b/c he resisted it a few years ago. I now realize that was a sign that things were getting unhealthy.  So, he has a PT job. Even though he says it's boring and he doesn't like it, he comes home *so* happy.  We joined a co-op that meets once every other week and I made him go.  He also has to go to the venue once a week while his sister takes classes (actually we work in a gorgeous library near  by).  Just getting out of the house has made a big difference.  Now there is only one day a week he doesn't go out at least once (and folks come for history group so he sees people).  The change is noticeable.  His 12 yo brother mentioned--he's so much less grumpy this year.

 

5.  We almost completely have cut a very toxic relationship out of our lives.

 

6.  I took him to a counselor a few times so someone other than me could challenge his unhealthy patterns of thinking.

 

But, by and large it was cutting back the screen time--way,way,way back--that made the biggest difference.

 

I know I threw alot at you, but I just wanted you to know what we had noticed and encourage you to read the book.  We weren't able to start with a complete fast b/c of online classes and college apps, but what we did really made a huge difference in our lives.

 

My last 2 will not be on social media until much, much older ages.

[cave canem]

 

I have a ds who has a low tipping point for screens. Unfortunately, he loves them. It is an addiction for him and, when he has too much, he displays addictive behaviour--lying, over reacting to cutting back, withdrawl behavior.  It's scarey.  This summer I read Reset Your Child's Brain, which really helped me continue to have resolve in this matter and even to cut back more.  He is doing so well.  

I am curious about how invested he is in the parameters you've implemented and whether you think he will stick with them when he leaves for college, if that will be happening soon.

[FriedClams]

I am curious about how invested he is in the parameters you've implemented and whether you think he will stick with them when he leaves for college, if that will be happening soon.

I can answer for my plans/theories/ideas...

 

We use the Disney Circle at home. It shuts down devices at a certain time ("bedtime") though we can add time, etc. It eliminates "oh I lost track of time" discussions. We also limit the amount of time spent "gaming" significantly. While my DS is not anywhere near an addiction, it's definitely his preferred fun activity. 

 

My thought is that my job is to teach appropriate screen use and time (both when and length). Right now I want him to see that there are a BILLION other ways to spend time, and other things in life that HAVE to happen before leisure time. By limiting screen time we free up time for the other things - volunteering, working out, games, movies, books, cooking, time with friends, etc. etc. etc. My hope is that he experiences firsthand that these are as much or more fun than sitting in front of a screen. Some ideas will fail, others won't. Moderation is the key. So, if he learns now (with our help and tools like Circle) that an appropriate balance of working out and screen time (we're trying a new system of time on the screen = double your workout time) that's a win. If he learns now, during high school, then when he's free in college he'll have developed habits of thinking about using time wisely, prioritizing school work, putting real relationships first, adding in lots of other worthwhile activities, not gaming alone (we strongly encourage only playing when there's a friend there - and then discussing the fun of team games later), etc. then it's time well spent.  

[Arcadia]

I am curious about how invested he is in the parameters you've implemented and whether you think he will stick with them when he leaves for college, if that will be happening soon.

My friends who have gaming addiction (when internet was a dial up) commute to college. It’s not foolproof but it’s easier for parents and siblings to help be supportive “watchdogs†then for dorm mates to do so. They did do well in their 30s and now in their late 40s, they are watching out on their kids.

 

This NPR article is a good read, especially what the child says. She was on suicide watch, attempted suicide using Tylenol and is now in outpatient rehab.

http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2017/05/18/527799301/is-internet-addiction-real

 

“These teens are using smartphones and tablets, he says, for the same reasons others turn to hard drugs — to numb themselves from what's really going on inside.

 

Most teens with this compulsion come to Paradigm because they've hit bottom in the same way someone addicted to drugs or alcohol does, Nalin says. But the treatment for compulsive Internet use is trickier, he says, because you can't really function in today's society without interacting with the digital world.

 

"The best analogy is when you have something like an eating disorder," says Nalin. "You cannot be clean and sober from food. So, you have to learn the skills to deal with it."

...

"When you look at the Facebook news feed, it's not just some neutral thing," Harris says. "That's powered by massive farms of computers who are calculating, with Ph.D.s and large data sets: 'How I can get you to scroll?' "

 

Harris eventually quit his gig at Google to form a nonprofit called Time Well Spent, because, he says, he was disgusted by the tech industry's race for our attention. He says Google had good intentions, but it was too difficult to turn the tides at the tech giant.

...

Recently some of Naomi's friends were suspended from school for posting inappropriate videos to YouTube. Naomi doesn't want to follow in their footsteps. She hopes she can resist the allure of the digital world and return to the activities she used to love.â€

 

ETA:

Asia has long had gaming and internet addiction and is quite well publicized.

 

“In South Korea, the world’s most wired country and where almost two-thirds of the population owns a smartphone, addiction to the Internet has become a major problem. Government data says 680,000 children aged between 10 and 19 are Internet addicts, or around 10 percent of the age group.

 

“I used to play with computers for seven hours a day, even overnight if my mother went on a trip,†said the 14-year old girl, who preferred to be identified only by her surname, Kim.

...

When none of these worked, her school suggested the Riding Healing Center, a therapy organization that uses horse-riding to cure emotional and behavioral disorders, which it believes are an underlying cause of internet addiction.

 

“I care about horses and think about how I could ride them better, which has made me lose interest in computers and the Internet,†said the bespectacled teen at the centre, some 40 km (25 miles) from Seoul.

 

She has had different types of professional counseling at the centre, but Kim believes the horses help most. They certainly have built a bond, shown as she affectionately stroked her horse prior to heading out to ride on a snowy field.â€

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-korea-internet-horses/horses-to-the-rescue-of-koreas-internet-addicted-teens-idUSBRE90803020130109

Edited October 22, 2017 by Arcadia

[freesia]

I am curious about how invested he is in the parameters you've implemented and whether you think he will stick with them when he leaves for college, if that will be happening soon.

Not too invested But the issues were serious enough that we needed to step in as we wouldn't keep alcohol in the house if he were an alcoholic. So we work on awareness and pointing out behaviors we see when he has extra screen time. He wants to do right and treat people well. He is noticing that his online friends who have unlimited online time are often anxious and depressed He has noticed how much better he is coping with life this year.

 

He goes to college next year. I don't know how he will do tbh. He wasn't learning self regulation when he had more time on. We will probably loosen up in a couple of months to see how he does. Hopefully he will internalize the lessons we've learned. I can only hope and pray.

[elegantlion]

((hugs)) My son is one of those people that has an odd sleep schedule. At 20, he can be up and functional for an 8am class, but he is at his best at 3am. Seriously, he's like a different person. He's also a computer nerd and I went through a divorce when we were homeschooling high school. I had no energy to fight for a "normal schedule" which for us had always been late morning to early afternoon for school. He self-studied for a few created classes and would teach himself that stuff in the middle of the night. It made his screen time educational at least. 

 

If he is not amendable to talking, try taking him out in the middle of the night for coffee or something. We had several occasions to do that with my dad's illness and it was quite the change. When I found out what his goals were, I could help. I would not discount vet school. I worked for a vet who went back to school after several years in the military. He had a wonderfully successful practice for years. He grew up in Boston and landed in the mid-west. But that goal seems so far away now, what kind of intermediate goal might help. 

 

I also would not discount any side effect of mono. I'm sorry, I'm not too familiar with some of your other postings, but has he also been checked for Lyme? 

 

I'm sorry things are difficult. I know there were times ds had this ambivalence to everything related to a life goal. Our conversations became not about careers but lifestyle. Where do you want to live? How do you see yourself living in the future? Then conversations could happen from there. 16 is rough.  :grouphug:

[elegantlion]

:crying: I wonder how many of us are... I read something the other day and it reminded me of her.  :crying:

 

 

 
I can't message you either until I clear out my inbox which I can't do tonight because it requires brain stuff (I'm hoarding Moira's messages so I can't just do a mass purge ...)

 

[Guest]

Its wonderful he has declared his independence, but he needs to decide how he is going to fund his exit plan. You are giving him room and board, while he funds his play with a part time job. He needs to take the next step...pay rent and do chores/hire help if he is not a full time student. Have a male mentor walk him thru this...he probably did the math..knows he can't move out or make enough to buy a vehicle on full time min wage. This will pressure him into drugs, bitcoin, or other shady schemes unless he can see the worth of earning the diploma and gaining the skills to have his own business or skilled job. If you told him he has been mathematically eliminated from college hopes, apologize and show him how to recover his gpa (ask if you need ideas) and improve his admission hopes by acing the SAT/ACT and doing something unique well plus volunteering with animals or vet place. He will not emotionally be willing put the work in to further high school academics if the payoff is not desired-- he is already at the point that he could grad with minimal effort.

Edited October 22, 2017 by Heigh Ho

[JennyD]

Oh Yael, I'm sorry that things are so hard.  You and your DH must be just pulling your hair out.

 

I have nothing constructive to offer, really, except that like others, I too wonder if he might still be suffering from the bout with mono.  

[Bootsie]

 This will pressure him into drugs, bitcoin, or other shady schemes unless he can see the worth of earning the diploma and gaining the skills to have his own business or skilled job. 

 

I am curious about what you mean with your reference to bitcoin.  What would it mean to be pressured into bitcoin?  How is it a shady scheme?  

[Guest]

I am curious about what you mean with your reference to bitcoin. What would it mean to be pressured into bitcoin? How is it a shady scheme?

 

The pressure is to earn money, any way possible with the skills he has now. Bitcoin is one possibility he may hear about in his online travels, but not have the financial knowledge to evaluate. The shady scheme is a con job pulled by a smooth talker he may meet. At this point, he is banking that he has enough skills that he can walk away from education, and has done so. He isn't just playing on the internet. He is looking at possibilities.

[Bootsie]

The pressure is to earn money, any way possible with the skills he has now. Bitcoin is one possibility he may hear about in his online travels, but not have the financial knowledge to evaluate. The shady scheme is a con job pulled by a smooth talker he may meet. At this point, he is banking that he has enough skills that he can walk away from education, and has done so. He isn't just playing on the internet. He is looking at possibilities.

I am not seeing the connection between Bitcoin and pressure to earn money.  Bitcoin is not a way to earn money, unless you are looking at it as an investment category and then it is like investing in gold, stocks, Japanese yen, or pork bellies.  He doesn't have to go online to hear about it--all of the major financial institutions are discussing it; it is discussed in university finance classes.   

[YaelAldrich]

Thank you all for your kind and caring responses.  I have read them but haven't the energy for replies right now. I went to visit my parents last week for a couple of days and when there we went to visit my sister's grave for the first time since she died in January.  The support I had hoped to get from my husband didn't pan out so my stress level is over the top.  I am doing my best to keep my son off his devices as much as possible and getting him to bed at a reasonable time.  He is supposed to start a job on Tuesday at a local breakfast/lunch cafe and he may start as someone's personal chef one day a week soon.  His grades in the AP Hist and US Lit class are good right now as well as his health class.  He opted to start doing Algebra 2 with me and will do so once the books come here.  We can take it as slowly as we need to but it gives him the option to finish his degree on time if he chooses.  I have to deal with my other children's schooling and my health taking a toll from the stress.

 

I'll be back to update if I can get my head above water.

[Lilaclady]

(((Hugs)))) You have a lot on your plate and I admire your strength and all you are doing. Please take time out to take care of yourself- I know it is easier said than done. All the best.

[katilac]

I just had to come back and say that you should not leave public school off of the table, particularly if he wants to go. I cannot at all remember if you mentioned him wanting to go or not. 

 

Kids survive and thrive in public schools all the time, even 'failing' ones. It's certainly not a failure on your part if he winds up there. 

 

I know he had behavioral issues at his last school, but private schools can be much less patient and much less willing to work with even minor issues. Is he in a better place now, or would the public school be more willing to work with him? 

 

He only has so many choices. He has to pick one and make it work, you can't do it for him. 

 

I hope things are going better this week. 

[eternalsummer]

I just had to come back and say that you should not leave public school off of the table, particularly if he wants to go. I cannot at all remember if you mentioned him wanting to go or not. 

 

Kids survive and thrive in public schools all the time, even 'failing' ones. It's certainly not a failure on your part if he winds up there. 

 

I know he had behavioral issues at his last school, but private schools can be much less patient and much less willing to work with even minor issues. Is he in a better place now, or would the public school be more willing to work with him? 

 

He only has so many choices. He has to pick one and make it work, you can't do it for him. 

 

I hope things are going better this week. 

 

 

This, plus I think the private school was a religious one and he no longer believes (at least not as fully? or maybe not at all?) in the religion, which I can understand leading to behavioral issues.