PSA Most of those who live in US territories ARE US citizens

[creekland]

Just doing my part to potentially fill in some education gaps.  Seems hubby overheard a "gentleman" (using that term loosely) last night who was railing about how we need to support US citizens first and not worry at all about those in Puerto Rico.   :glare:

 

With a quick google search, it appears he's not alone in his lack of knowledge.   :cursing:

 

https://www.usnews.com/news/national-news/articles/2017-09-26/almost-half-of-americans-dont-know-puerto-ricans-are-us-citizens-poll

 

I wasn't there.  If I had been, chances are I'd have spoken up even though hubby wasn't at all part of the conversation.  If someone is being loud enough to be overheard in a public place and is so factually incorrect, I'm allowed a statement or two of my own.  Just sayin'.  Hubby took the position of "Not my circus..." and ignored them.  I figure spouting such incorrect info hurts anyone who might be overhearing with a gap in their education as well.  Fill the gap with facts, then let folks form their opinions.

[maize]

I've heard several news commentators emphasize this point recently. I was surprised it needed to be pointed out.

[Guest]

I think a lot of people don't understand how territories work.

 

#whywehomeschool

[AK_Mom4]

 

That’s just plain ignorance. My older kids learned about Puerto Rico and the other US Territoriez in (public) school.

 

And while Alaska WAS a territory not that long ago, we are geographically a WORLD away from Puerto Rico and we learned about how citizenship works back in the dark ages when I was a child.

 

Oldest DS texted me this week that he and his plane (Air Force) are down there now doing medical evacuations and hauling supplies and equipment in for the National Guard folks there. You don’t read a whole lot about it in the news, but there is a huge humanitarian irelief effort going on there as well as work to get their infrastructure back online. This isn’t Houston where supplies can come in truck and train — everything has to be brought in by plane or boat now that the ports and runways are cleared.

Edited September 30, 2017 by AK_Mom4

[Guest]

Selfishness teams up with ignorance.

[Pawz4me]

Stating the obvious, but -- Ignorance is such a huge issue in our country.

[HeartString]

Puerto Rico is only a little over a 1000 miles off of Florida. It's a 2-3 hour plane ride. Its much closer to the US main land than I think some people assuming.

[Guest]

We're not the one who needs this knowledge. It is a certain spray tanned fellow who needs this information. Maybe Tweet it??

[creekland]

Selfishness teams up with ignorance.

 

How true.  I've heard the selfishness myself - how those in TX and FL should take care of their own problems since they have chosen to live in disaster prone areas (and even pointing out that these were not "typical" happenings or that disasters can happen anywhere did not change minds).

 

But selfishness based upon ignorance goes a step further.

 

Count me among those who (falsely) assumed it was common knowledge that territory folks were citizens.  It's not just the one person.  It seems to be a common lack of knowledge.

 

I can't help but wonder what's going on in USVI.  They seem to have completely fallen off the news radar - even with BBC (even with BVI).

[mlktwins]

Puerto Rico is only a little over a 1000 miles off of Florida. It's a 2-3 hour plane ride. Its much closer to the US main land than I think some people assuming.

 

A dad of one of our baseball players just got back from PR.  He is part of a search and rescue team and was in the VI after Irma and weathered Maria in PR.  He says a lot is being done given what is possible with the roads, power, etc.  A big thing is the radar at the airport is down.  Easier said than done to get planes in and out.

[Carrie12345]

The thing that's upsetting me is that, regardless of what ordinary people know or don't know, the federal government as a whole is well aware of Puerto Rico's status.  Our government has, at the federal, state, county, local, and tribal levels, one National Incident Management System.  It is designed to address any incident of any size.  It requires pre-planning at all levels.  

 

Puerto Rico uses this system.  Just like Texas, just like Florida.  There is no denying that the logistics are different, given the location, but the system is supposed to be the same, under Homeland Security Presidential Directive 5 from the early 00s.

[Carol in Cal.]

It's just killing me not to be able to help.

Our church body is active in the Houston and Florida aftermaths, but doesn't have the logistical capability to help in Puerto Rico yet because of the access problems and because the local assistance means that we have there is not able to operate due to the water and the electricity being out.

 

ETA:  And of course they are citizens.  Good gosh.

Edited September 30, 2017 by Carol in Cal.

[goldberry]

It's just killing me not to be able to help.

Our church body is active in the Houston and Florida aftermaths, but doesn't have the logistical capability to help in Puerto Rico yet because of the access problems and because the local assistance means that we have there is not able to operate due to the water and the electricity being out.

 

ETA:  And of course they are citizens.  Good gosh.

 

Yes, I think PR is far past just needing "extra hands" right now.

[Audrey]

Well... you know.......they're mostly brown people and mostly Spanish speaking people, so they can't possibly be True Americans â„¢ much less worth any basic human compassion.   :001_rolleyes: 

Edited October 1, 2017 by Audrey

[Matryoshka]

I am tutoring beginning Spanish to a girl who wanted to use the school textbook.

 

Which asks the question "What nationality are you?" to characters in the book who are Puerto Rican and the answer is "puertorriqueño".  Well, of course the person is Puerto Rican, like someone from Texas is Texan.... but their nationality is American.   :cursing:

 

And then they have another bit where they say that "The schools in Puerto Rico are similar (in structure) to the schools in America."  Uh, that's because schools in Puerto Rico ARE schools in America.   :banghead:

 

And this is in a SPANISH TEXTBOOK.  No wonder there are so many ignorant people out there. 

[creekland]

Well... you know.......they're mostly brown people and mostly Spanish speaking people, so they can't possibly be True Americans â„¢ much less worth any basic human compassion.   :001_rolleyes: 

 

Unfortunately, I've heard variations of that too - and those speaking were not being sarcastic.  :cursing:

[maize]

Would this be an OK place to mention that one of my favorite seed companies is donating all their proceeds to Hurricane relief this week? It's a good time to buy :)

 

http://www.rareseeds.com/helping-hurricane-victims/

 

(I'm not affiliated in any way)

[Lanny]

And I am wondering if when Arctic Mama and her family arrived in Ohio and people saw the AK tags on their vehicles if there were any strange comments to them.  I read, some years ago, that a percentage of the people in the USA cannot locate Canada on a map. How would those people locate AK on a map?

 

To get closer to the  topic, I am still looking to hear from people I know in PR, on Facebook or some other venue.  Yesterday, (Friday), I watched a video that had been  on the TV news on Thursday.  There are almost 10,000 containers on the dock in the Port of San Juan, with things that are desperately needed, and being rationed, and there are very few Truck Drivers or Tractors, to take the Containers where they are needed, assuming the roads are open.  So I sent a couple of Tweets yesterday in the morning, suggesting they fly a bunch of Truck Drivers and Tractors down there in a C5.  Presto, this morning, President Trump announced they are sending hundreds of Truck Drivers to PR. That will help. Probably thousands of people  sent Tweets about sending Truck Drivers and it was a coincidence that I was one of them.  Or, they came up with that idea on their own. Probably that's what happened... Each Logistical problem is a problem they need to solve as it comes up.

 

They seem to have partial electrical power, although I have heard numerous times, that the electrical system is destroyed. I do not understand that. 9 of 51 hospitals have power, but about 5 or 6 of those are using generators, which will fail.  About 30% of their telecommunications is up.  About half of their supermarkets and gas stations are open at least part of the day.  

 

This is a Catastrophic situation in PR (and I assume also in USVI) for people with Diabetes, Kidney issues, and other diseases. No electricity is just one of the issues that can cause problems for those patients.

 

The U.S. Government has sent approximately 10,000 people to help in PR. About 7,000 of them are military personnel.  They need to send more people, but that adds Logistical problems, because each of those people needs a place to sleep, food to eat, water to drink, etc.  

 

I forget if Geraldo Rivera was born in NYC or in PR, but he has a lot of family members in PR.  2 or 3 days ago, he walked in on some of them, in the San Juan area. He  explained their situation. Then, he     said, "multiply my family by many thousands of families who are experiencing the same difficulties".  He showed an RCCL (Royal Caribbean Cruise Lines) ship in the Port.  RCCL sent it to evacuate about 1200 of their staff and family and friends, and about 800 tourists who were stranded in hotels in PR. He suggested they send many more Cruise ships, to evacuate people from PR. 

 

If they don't move those Containers out of the Port of San Juan, Containers that are arriving on Barges from the USA will not be able to be unloaded, because there will be no room for them in the Port.

 

The airport was closed yesterday? I'm not sure why, but a man I saw interviewed said the only flights he saw going in and out were executive jets and a couple of tankers.  

 

Our Receiver/Forwarder in Miami told me yesterday the reason a shipment to us was delayed this week is because of the Hurricane in PR.  I  told her I have ZERO problem with that.  Probably the Cargo Airline they use has some of their aircraft in the CRAF (Civil Reserve Air Fleet) http://www.af.mil/About-Us/Fact-Sheets/Display/Article/104583/civil-reserve-air-fleet/ and they are now running Humanitarian Charters for the Department of Defense, to PR.  She told me the delays will probably be for the next several weeks. I have no  problem with that.

 

The Governor of PR and many other people there have praised the way the help has come into PR, but it is much harder to get help to PR, than it is to the people in TX or FL.  

 

Yes, of course, the people on  PR are U.S. Citizens. But they identify as Puerto Ricans and I remember, years ago, in a restaurant in Miami, asking the waiter where he was from, and he told us he was from PR, "and I've only been in this country for "n' months".  Many Puerto Ricans serve in the U.S. Military. There was a guy from PR in my "flight" when I went through basic training in Lackland AFB years ago.  

 

Puerto Ricans can vote in U.S. (Federal) elections if they are living on the Mainland (Continental U.S.) but not on PR.  The taxes they pay (Income Tax, etc.) stay on PR.  I looked into moving to PR, when I was very young. I learned that they impose Import Duties on Cars, Refrigerators, and other things that are shipped from the USA.  So, while it is a U.S. Territory (a Commonwealth), in some ways, it operates like a Foreign Country would, with regard to taxes.

 

If I assume, which I try not to do, the situation in USVI is somewhat similar to that of PR, but there are only about 100K people in USVI and there are 3.4 million people in PR.

 

Please do not forget the victims of Irma and Maria in the USA. Please do not forget the victims of Irma and Maria in the Caribbean. There are a lot of people suffering,, on a lot of islands. The U.S. Navy, for one example, is doing Humanitarian work on Dominica.   Two Hurricanes with many victims in many places. 

 

Please include those affected in your prayers.

Edited October 1, 2017 by Lanny

[Pawz4me]

I read, some years ago, that a percentage of the people in the USA cannot locate Canada on a map. How would those people locate AK on a map?

 

They might think Alaska (and Hawaii) are islands south of the US mainland. And that Mexico . . . isn't there. Nor, apparently, does Canada exist.

Edited October 1, 2017 by Pawz4me

[Guest]

No werid comments, except everyone assumes we are military because we moved from an area around an air force base to an area around an air force base.

[ktgrok]

A dad of one of our baseball players just got back from PR.  He is part of a search and rescue team and was in the VI after Irma and weathered Maria in PR.  He says a lot is being done given what is possible with the roads, power, etc.  A big thing is the radar at the airport is down.  Easier said than done to get planes in and out.

 

Many people are now saying we need to change the laws and culture around having the military do more in disasters. I guess there are issues with doing it relating to martial law? But we have a military trained to go in and create airport out of scratch basically, in incredibly inhospitable places. To bring their own radar, set up portable bases, etc etc. Not the national guard, but the actual army, etc. They nation build already, in other countries. Having them do so on our own soil is not currently something that can be done for legal reasons I guess, but if we were able to change that it seems that we could really address situations like this in a real way. I mean, no one is better at logistics than the army! And the police are so overwhelmed trying to maintain safety on the streets with no power at night, etc that they need help with law and order. 

 

(this was discussed a bit on the NPR show 1A Friday)

[Farrar]

Honestly, I think it's time for Puerto Rican statehood. Like, past time. They're treated like second class citizens.

 

(Also time for DC statehood. Just... fix this fundamentally undemocratic stuff, y'all... seriously.)

[Scarlett]

They might think Alaska (and Hawaii) are islands south of the US mainland. And that Mexico . . . isn't there. Nor, apparently, does Canada exist.

I remember being a kid and thinking that. Why do they show kids maps like this?

[Guest]

I remember being a kid and thinking that. Why do they show kids maps like this?

Size. And especially if they want extensive labeling of the lower 48, you can't have everything else on there and remain 8.5x11

[bettyandbob]

Honestly, I think it's time for Puerto Rican statehood. Like, past time. They're treated like second class citizens.

 

(Also time for DC statehood. Just... fix this fundamentally undemocratic stuff, y'all... seriously.)

 

way past time for both. 

[creekland]

The other info is all interesting and debatable (is enough being done and who should do it, etc).  

 

Just remember the thing that irritated me the most was someone loudly proclaiming the US should be doing NOTHING because we need to be helping our own citizens rather than anyone else. 

 

They are citizens - just as much as Texans or Floridians or any other state residents are.

 

If one thinks we shouldn't be helping anyone hit by weather disasters at all, fine (though I certainly disagree).  But to blame not wanting to help on a pure fallacy is entirely something else.

[Lanny]

Many people are now saying we need to change the laws and culture around having the military do more in disasters. I guess there are issues with doing it relating to martial law? But we have a military trained to go in and create airport out of scratch basically, in incredibly inhospitable places. To bring their own radar, set up portable bases, etc etc. Not the national guard, but the actual army, etc. They nation build already, in other countries. Having them do so on our own soil is not currently something that can be done for legal reasons I guess, but if we were able to change that it seems that we could really address situations like this in a real way. I mean, no one is better at logistics than the army! And the police are so overwhelmed trying to maintain safety on the streets with no power at night, etc that they need help with law and order. 

 

(this was discussed a bit on the NPR show 1A Friday)

 

Of the approximately 10K Federal people on PR now for Humanitarian Aid reasons,  approximately 7K are Military. They will be sending more military personnel..  Some of the Army Reserve/National Guard units, and some of the Air Force Reserve/Air National Guard units have special expertise that is needed in these Humanitarian missions.  I think about 25% of what the U.S. Military does is Humanitarian aid?   

 

I saw a troubling video of an interview with Chris Schilling. He is in PR and he alluded to very serious and horrible crimes being committed. I would think that is quite common, after a major disaster.  

 

Regarding Marshall Law, that may be something they need to look into, if the local authorities are unable to help their citizens in the best way possible, but would be very controversial. 

[Lanny]

The other info is all interesting and debatable (is enough being done and who should do it, etc).  

 

Just remember the thing that irritated me the most was someone loudly proclaiming the US should be doing NOTHING because we need to be helping our own citizens rather than anyone else. 

 

They are citizens - just as much as Texans or Floridians or any other state residents are.

 

If one thinks we shouldn't be helping anyone hit by weather disasters at all, fine (though I certainly disagree).  But to blame not wanting to help on a pure fallacy is entirely something else.

 

Yes. If they were born on PR they are U.S. Citizens.  However, if you asked them about Nationality, many of them would respond that they are Puerto Ricans.

[mlktwins]

Of the approximately 10K Federal people on PR now for Humanitarian Aid reasons,  approximately 7K are Military. They will be sending more military personnel..  Some of the Army Reserve/National Guard units, and some of the Air Force Reserve/Air National Guard units have special expertise that is needed in these Humanitarian missions.  I think about 25% of what the U.S. Military does is Humanitarian aid?   

 

I saw a troubling video of an interview with Chris Schilling. He is in PR and he alluded to very serious and horrible crimes being committed. I would think that is quite common, after a major disaster.  

 

Regarding Marshall Law, that may be something they need to look into, if the local authorities are unable to help their citizens in the best way possible, but would be very controversial. 

 

They guy I mentioned above, that was search and rescue on PR and just returned home on Monday, said that they needed armed guards at the hotel where they were staying and when they left the hotel to perform their duties.

[Lanny]

Honestly, I think it's time for Puerto Rican statehood. Like, past time. They're treated like second class citizens.

 

(Also time for DC statehood. Just... fix this fundamentally undemocratic stuff, y'all... seriously.)

 

I think there was another vote on PR, possibly this year, about what the voters would like to do. Usually, Statehood is Rejected. Usually Independence is rejected. Usually the majority of the voters vote to remain a Commonwealth of the USA.

 

If PR would become a state, one of the things that would happen is, I believe this is true, is that they would lose a lot of Financial and other aid they receive at this time from the USA, with their Commonwealth status..  

 

Complicated issues that do not involve the 73 Billion Dollars of debt PR had before the 2 recent hurricanes.

[Butter]

Yes. If they were born on PR they are U.S. Citizens.  However, if you asked them about Nationality, many of them would respond that they are Puerto Ricans.

Why do you think someone saying they are Puerto Rican is extremely important?  They are pretty much treated as second class US citizens so I am not surprised they would identify as Puerto Rican first.  Then again I know a heck of a lot of Texans who identify as Texan first, American second so what's the difference?

 

My friend's co-worker said helping Texas and Florida was fine, but we shouldn't be bothering about Puerto Rico because they are just a bunch of Mexicans anyway.  My friend was stunned speechless.  1.) Not Mexican and 2.) there are a lot of actual Mexicans in Texas (she did not seem aware of that).  And she's a teacher.

[DawnM]

It comes from the top-down.  When our leader refers to PR as "Them," implying that "they" aren't one of "us,"  we know we have a problem.

[Butter]

I think there was another vote on PR, possibly this year, about what the voters would like to do. Usually, Statehood is Rejected. Usually Independence is rejected. Usually the majority of the voters vote to remain a Commonwealth of the USA.

 

Incorrect.  They actually voted overwhelmingly for statehood earlier this year.  Voter turnout was low, but, then, turnout is often low (and it was almost double voter turnout for San Antonio mayor a few months ago).  In 2012 they also voted for statehood.  It's Congress that won't act.

Edited October 1, 2017 by Butter

[Scarlett]

Size. And especially if they want extensive labeling of the lower 48, you can't have everything else on there and remain 8.5x11

Yes, of course but they did not make it clear there was was a bigger picture.

[Lanny]

Why do you think someone saying they are Puerto Rican is extremely important?  They are pretty much treated as second class US citizens so I am not surprised they would identify as Puerto Rican first.  Then again I know a heck of a lot of Texans who identify as Texan first, American second so what's the difference?

 

My friend's co-worker said helping Texas and Florida was fine, but we shouldn't be bothering about Puerto Rico because they are just a bunch of Mexicans anyway.  My friend was stunned speechless.  1.) Not Mexican and 2.) there are a lot of actual Mexicans in Texas (she did not seem aware of that).  And she's a teacher.

 

I do not believe it is the same for them to identify as Puerto Ricans as it is for people in Texas to say they are Texans.

 

PR is a much more complicated situation, which you can see from the 3 options they can choose from, when voting in the Plebiscites, regarding the future status of PR: Commonwealth, Independent country, or Statehood.

 

The Culture is deeply embedded in the people of PR.

 

A friend there, that I hope is OK, is a highly educated and experienced professional. He could work in his profession in the USA without any issue.  When I asked him, years ago, about the possibility of moving his family to the USA, he told me he doesn't like the Cultural differences.  It doesn't have to do with the weather, which normally is great, or the wonderful warm water when you go to the beach, but the cultural differences.  He could move his family to the states, but even with the horrible recession on PR during the past decade, he chose not to do so.  

[goldberry]

If one thinks we shouldn't be helping anyone hit by weather disasters at all, fine (though I certainly disagree).  But to blame not wanting to help on a pure fallacy is entirely something else.

 

Also something else entirely, the idea that citizens should not be helped because their local government is in trouble financially.  When has that EVER been brought up in a U.S. disaster?  EVER??  I'm seeing lots of comments "they're in trouble because they are liberal, let them live out their liberal disaster".  

 

Debt or political partisanship should not be a factor in humanitarian aid to U.S. citizens.  Full stop.

[goldberry]

Wow.  Eye-opening...  I had no idea how much of U.S.-Puerto Rican relations were based in overt racism.  That may have been acceptable in 1901. but are we really still there in 2017?

 

http://www.history.com/news/puerto-ricos-complicated-history-with-the-united-states

 

With the westward expansion of the 19th century, the U.S. established “incorporated territories†that could and did become formal American states—like the Colorado Territory. But in 1901, a series of legal opinions known as the Insular Cases argued that Puerto Rico and other territories ceded by the Spanish were full of “alien races†who couldn’t understand “Anglo-Saxon principles.†Therefore, the Constitution did not apply to them, and Puerto Rico became an “unincorporated territory†with no path forward to statehood.

 

Of course now you can add in, "they aren't profitable enough for us".  But we played a role in that too...

 

In addition, the U.S. disrupted Puerto Rico’s coffee industry, implementing a sugar economy and creating massive poverty among the population. “Within the first 10 years of the U.S. occupation of Puerto Rico, U.S. sugar interests had pretty much taken over, and the Puerto Rican coffee class has been displaced entirely,†Guerra explains.

[Butter]

A friend there, that I hope is OK, is a highly educated and experienced professional. He could work in his profession in the USA without any issue.  When I asked him, years ago, about the possibility of moving his family to the USA, he told me he doesn't like the Cultural differences.  It doesn't have to do with the weather, which normally is great, or the wonderful warm water when you go to the beach, but the cultural differences.  He could move his family to the states, but even with the horrible recession on PR during the past decade, he chose not to do so.  

 

He IS working in his profession in the USA.

[Farrar]

I think there was another vote on PR, possibly this year, about what the voters would like to do. Usually, Statehood is Rejected. Usually Independence is rejected. Usually the majority of the voters vote to remain a Commonwealth of the USA.

 

If PR would become a state, one of the things that would happen is, I believe this is true, is that they would lose a lot of Financial and other aid they receive at this time from the USA, with their Commonwealth status..  

 

Complicated issues that do not involve the 73 Billion Dollars of debt PR had before the 2 recent hurricanes.

 

As pointed out above, this is just blatantly incorrect. You may want the people of PR to like the way they're treated, but you'd be wrong. PR has voted for statehood in the last three referenda they've had on the issue. And while the initial votes years ago were much closer, the last referendum had 97% for statehood.

 

States get aid too, you know. Much of the "aid" to PR is the same aid that's given to every state in the form of grants for programs like WIC and Section 8 housing and highways and a million other things. The situation would be different, yes. But states also have much greater freedom to structure their finances, which is one of the biggest problems limiting PR at the moment. Plus, they would be enfranchised. 

 

The US treats PR like a colony of second class citizens. Period. As someone who is also a second class citizen in this country in terms of enfranchisement, I feel for them. I see no better solution than statehood.

Edited October 1, 2017 by Farrar

[Lanny]

He IS working in his profession in the USA.

 

What?     There are 50 states in the USA, and the District of Columbia.. During my lifetime, Hawaii and Alaska changed, and went from being Territories to being States.  Many others are Territories. They came under U.S. control for different reasons.   I really enjoyed the U.S. Government course when I was in High School, the Instructor made it interesting. I do not remember his name, but he made it interesting for me. 

 

If Puerto Rico was in the USA, they would not be able to have their own collection of Puerto RIcan Customs Duties, on cars and other goods that are shipped to Puerto Rico from the USA. That's one reason that I did not transfer to PR with the first airline I worked for, when I was very young. 

 

ETA: "Puerto Rico first became a U.S. territory following the Spanish-American War, which was ignited by the explosion of the U.S.S. Maine in Havana Harbor in 1898. ... In 1952, Puerto Ricans adopted a new constitution, which established the current relationship of Puerto Rico as a commonwealth of the United States."

Edited October 1, 2017 by Lanny

[Farrar]

Lanny, I just looked this up and everything I could find says that goods brought to PR from the mainland do NOT have a custom tax. Only imports. Perhaps they're managed differently because it's a territory, but again, everything I could find says that the same import fees apply, not ones that are different from the US mainland and states.

 

PR is part of the US. PR residents have complete freedom to come to the US. They have US passports. You do not go through immigration when visiting PR or when visiting the mainland from PR. It is the US.

[Lanny]

My desire is to see life on Puerto Rico return to "normal" ASAP. And that tourists will begin returning there. Cruise Ships calling there and Sailing from there.  The Mayor of the city of San Juan has never attended a planning meeting of FEMA, held in her city of San Juan, since the recent hurricanes. Possibly if she would take the time to attend those meetings, her constituents would receive more aid where it is needed, on a priority basis, as is possible, considering the local conditions,  which I think includes flooding and streets closed in some areas..

 

There are many problems to be solved and huge numbers of people who need help.  I've been there. I know people there. 

 

The Governor of PR seems to be doing a good job, given the situation he is trying to deal with.

 

This article is sad, but probably accurate regarding the recovery in PR: 

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/10/01/puerto-rican-ceo-sends-engineers-to-help-fema-efforts-calls-local-pols-inept.html

 

The probability is that other U.S. Territories, Guam, American Samoa, USVI, etc., have infrastructure problems about the same as PR did before the recent Hurricanes.    Probably, like PR, they have their own Import Duties on cars and refrigerators and other things shipped in from the USA, as PR does.  There was a Typhoon (?) that struck American Samoa (Pago Pago) some years ago and I remember a lot of flooding and wind damage there.  The logistics of getting help to Guam would be much greater than it is now for PR.

 

Several days ago, I watched a video interview with the Mayor of a city of 60K people on PR. They received, for example, one truck with water. I think he said about  1000 people could get water from one truck. They needed a lot more water trucks. Since then, I learned about the shortage of Truck Drivers, and I suspect Tractors, to deliver the Containers that are sitting in the parking area of the Port of San Juan.  And, the Curfew mentioned in the article I linked to above limits the delivery of those Containers, to Daylight hours. Maybe they should lift the Curfew on those deliveries, as he suggested in the article I linked to, if it is safe for them to move at night?

[Lanny]

Lanny, I just looked this up and everything I could find says that goods brought to PR from the mainland do NOT have a custom tax. Only imports. Perhaps they're managed differently because it's a territory, but again, everything I could find says that the same import fees apply, not ones that are different from the US mainland and states.

 

PR is part of the US. PR residents have complete freedom to come to the US. They have US passports. You do not go through immigration when visiting PR or when visiting the mainland from PR. It is the US.

 

I respectfully disagree with you. PR is NOT part of the U.S. The United States includes the 50 states and the District of Columbia.   PR is a Territory (Commonwealth) of the U.S.  Yes, people born on PR since I forget which year are U.S. Citizens.  Yes they can freely go to the USA. Yes, they have U.S. Passports. That does not mean that PR is IN the USA.

 

Possibly they changed the law about things imported from the USA. When I looked into that, many years ago, they certainly did charge Import Duties on cars, Refrigerators, etc., that were imported from the USA.

The Income Taxes people on PR pay do not go to the U.S. Treasury. They stay on PR.  They go to the Puerto Rican government.

 

If this article, for example, is correct, PR does charge import taxes on cars coming from the USA, as it did, when I looked into transferring there with my employer, many years ago:

https://www.nationalexpressautotransport.com/importing-car-puerto-rico-tax-cost

 

I believe cars and other things (refrigerators, etc.) imported, from the USA to Puerto Rico, are still subject to Puerto Rican Import taxes.  It is not like shipping something from CA to TX or V.V. 

[Daria]

I respectfully disagree with you. PR is NOT part of the U.S. The United States includes the 50 states and the District of Columbia.   PR is a Territory (Commonwealth) of the U.S.  Yes, people born on PR since I forget which year are U.S. Citizens.  Yes they can freely go to the USA. Yes, they have U.S. Passports. That does not mean that PR is IN the USA.

 

Possibly they changed the law about things imported from the USA. When I looked into that, many years ago, they certainly did charge Import Duties on cars, Refrigerators, etc., that were imported from the USA.

The Income Taxes people on PR pay do not go to the U.S. Treasury. They stay on PR.  They go to the Puerto Rican government.

 

If this article, for example, is correct, PR does charge import taxes on cars coming from the USA, as it did, when I looked into transferring there with my employer, many years ago:

https://www.nationalexpressautotransport.com/importing-car-puerto-rico-tax-cost

 

I believe cars and other things (refrigerators, etc.) imported, from the USA to Puerto Rico, are still subject to Puerto Rican Import taxes.  It is not like shipping something from CA to TX or V.V. 

 

There are also states where you need to pay a tax when bringing in a car from out of state.

[Carrie12345]

commonwealth

1.

n

a political system in which the supreme power lies in a body of citizens who can elect people to represent them

2.

n

a world organization of autonomous states that are united in allegiance to a central power but are not subordinate to it or to one another

3.

n

the official name of some states in the United States (Massachusetts and Pennsylvania and Virginia and Kentucky) and associated territories (Puerto Rico)

Commonwealths can definitely be IN the US.

[Lanny]

There are also states where you need to pay a tax when bringing in a car from out of state.

 

Yes. Probably many states do that, if one moves from one state to another state. However, that is different than charging IMPORT DUTY.  That is something a Country does, with some or all goods coming from another Country. 

 

If one is paying Import Duty and other taxes, that is an International shipment. There is a Customs clearance involved. In the case of things going into PR, it might be handled by U.S. Customs, but the taxes paid will go into the Puerto RIcan government bank account. Taxes paid on PR stay in PR. 

[Lanny]

commonwealth

1.

n

a political system in which the supreme power lies in a body of citizens who can elect people to represent them

2.

n

a world organization of autonomous states that are united in allegiance to a central power but are not subordinate to it or to one another

3.

n

the official name of some states in the United States (Massachusetts and Pennsylvania and Virginia and Kentucky) and associated territories (Puerto Rico)

Commonwealths can definitely be IN the US.

 

 

Yes, of course, Commonwealths CAN be in the USA. There are several of them, as you mentioned in your list.  However, in the case of PR, PR is NOT in the USA. The Commonwealth of PR is a Territory of the USA. AK and HI were Territories of the USA when I was a boy. AK and HI became states (part of the USA) when I was a boy. There is a difference, between a State (and also the District of Columbia, which is in the USA) and a Territory of the USA, which is NOT in the USA.    PR, Guam, American Samoa, USVI, etc., are NOT in the USA.   The USA is the 50 states plus the District of Columbia.

[Sandwalker]

Would this be an OK place to mention that one of my favorite seed companies is donating all their proceeds to Hurricane relief this week? It's a good time to buy :)

 

http://www.rareseeds.com/helping-hurricane-victims/

 

(I'm not affiliated in any way)

Great site, thanks!!

[Butter]

What?     There are 50 states in the USA, and the District of Columbia..

 

AND territories.  The territories are absolutely positively part of the United States.  Period.

 

I respectfully disagree with you. PR is NOT part of the U.S. The United States includes the 50 states and the District of Columbia. 

 

And you would be wrong.  The United States includes the 50 states, DC, AND the territories.

[Matryoshka]

Lanny, what country do you think Puerto Rico is in?  Or don't they have a country?  They are US citizens, even though because of their lack of voting rights they are treated like second-class citizens. The United States is the only country they are citizens of; they have US passports.  Their nationality is as American as the rest of us. Territories are part of a country.

 

Multiple people have corrected you and told you that the last three referendums did in fact vote for statehood.  The last one very overwhelmingly so.

 

Those 'import duties' you are referring to are not placed by Puerto Rico.  Usually it's the country that's importing that sets import duties.  Well, it is, since the US Govt sets those, and that is the country Puerto Rico is part of.  I'm fairly sure you are referring to the Jones Act, which has nothing to do with Puerto Rico not being part of the US, but was meant to give US shipping companies a boon - in fact it prohibits Puerto Rico from actually importing anything from anywhere, it forces it to only get goods from the US shipped on US ships (and manned by US crews!) which imposes huge extra costs on them - and they have no choice but to pay. It is cheaper to buy US goods in Jamaica than in Puerto Rico, due to this act. This is where a large part of that debt comes from.

 

There actually are no 'import duties' set by Puerto Rico on goods from other parts of the US.  I googled and got this info (on multiple sites): 

"Puerto Rico is part of the U.S. Customs Territory so there are no duties assessed on products coming from the mainland. "

 

Because Puerto Rico is part of the United States of America.

Edited October 2, 2017 by Matryoshka