Some questions surrounding end of life, kids dealing with it, etc.

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

My grandmother is in her last days. It all went down pretty quickly, but the upshot is that she's now refusing all treatment, food, water, etc. and is about to enter into some kind of hospice situation. She's weak and bedridden and talking only a little.

 

Here are my questions. Both DDs (11 and 14) gladly visited her in the hospital when she was still fairly functional and expected to go home at some point (albeit with surgery and cancer treatment in her very near future). But the decline from there was very rapid, and she's obviously not in the same state now as she was then. DD14 is still fine with visiting her, although she's understandably apprehensive. DD11 is having a hard time with the idea of Grammy dying soon, possibly suffering (though she's really not), etc. She's had some sadness and there have been some outbreaks of tears at home. She's extremely reluctant to go visit. 

 

Is this something I should gently insist that she do? My instinct is to let it go, that this isn't something she needs to deal with at 11. But I'm worried that DD will regret not seeing Grammy one last time later on, and I don't want my grandmother to feel upset that she didn't come. I didn't grow up with a lot of sick/elderly/dying people around me, so I'm not sure if there's a "proper protocol" for this kind of thing. FWIW, DD doesn't really do well with being forced to do things she doesn't want to do, so gently insisting might be even worse than explaining why she's not there at all :(

 

Also, DD11 is supposed to leave for camp on Monday, for two weeks. Should I be thinking that she should stay home? If my grandmother dies while she's at camp, should I expect to go get her? No one in the family will resent it if DD isn't there for a funeral, but again, I'm not sure if that's something that DD would regret later, or if there's some protocol that I'm unaware of...

 

This is our first foray into all this, but it won't be our last, so I'm learning as I go, I guess. 

 

Thanks all.

Edited July 18, 2017 by ILiveInFlipFlops

[Hilltopmom]

Hugs.

I'll pm you. I have some private thoughts.

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

Hugs.

I'll pm you. I have some private thoughts.

 

Thank you, I'll keep an eye out for your message.

Edited July 18, 2017 by ILiveInFlipFlops

[PrincessMommy]

It's hard because everyone is different..  At 11, I would take her lead.  The thing is that kids don't really understand the finality of that last visit - heck, we adults rarely do.  I would try to gently explain that this would be a chance to say "goodbye", not really a visit and wouldn't have to be long.   Then let her choose. 

 

I would ask her if she wants to be picked up for the funeral if it happens while she's away.  Will the camp allow that?   I'd give them a heads-up...especially so her counselors know she's dealing with this.  If it were me, I would let her choose whether she wants to attend or not.   I wouldn't have her miss all of camp with this kind of unknown, unless she was super close to her great-grandma and really wanted to be there.  

 

Edited to add:  Hugs.  

Edited July 18, 2017 by PrincessMommy

[foxbridgeacademy]

I didn't go see my grandmother when she took a turn for the worse because there is no way I want to remember the most wonderful person in the World that way, she would absolutely understand.  We went the month before and had a great visit (even though we knew she'd be gone soon) and that's the last memory the kids and I have of her, which makes me happy to think of.  Also her children (she has 7) were more than capable of providing around the clock care and comfort, we'd have just been in the way.  

 

We went to visit my mom's favorite grandmother days before she died when I was 10.... it still affects me mainly because it's the image that first comes to mind when I think of her. 

[marbel]

:grouphug:

 

This is really hard, and so individual. 

 

in the same situation, I don't think I would push either of my kids to go.  I know people with terrible memories of elderly relatives they were forced to see in their final days; often the bad memories crowd out the good ones.  If she chooses not to go, and starts to show signs of regretting it later, I would remind her of good memories she has of her great-grandma. Maybe do something "in honor" of her - for example go out for tea if that was something your grandma would have enjoyed doing.  Talk with her and help her keep good memories alive. 

 

I'd also ask her what she wanted to do about camp.  Camp may be just what she needs at this time.   I agree about giving the camp leadership a heads-up on the situation.

 

There are always going to be things we regret doing and not doing.   Hard to think of an 11-year-old dealing with that already.  But you can't predict it.
 

:grouphug:  :grouphug:

[FaithManor]

11 is young. Just so you know, the whole concept of passing peacefully is well, a nice idea, but often does not happen. We just went through this in our family.

 

Spasms, agonal breathing (ya and it sounds like a bit of agony too), several things occurred in the last five minutes that here VERY hard to witness, and my 17 year old had some not so nice insomnia for a few weeks after it.

 

So at 11, there is no way I would get insistent because grandma could easily begin that process during the visit if she is now refusing hydration.

[Arctic Bunny]

I'm glad my kids' (and my!) last memory of their great-grandparents are not of them dying. My grandma wasn't in the best shape, but we sat with her and I talked to her and she knew we were there.

 

I'm not sure I'd want my great-grandkids' last memory of me to be on my deathbed.

 

But then I also think it's better to do these things with relatives that aren't so close, as far as funerals and such.

 

I'm sorry for rambling!

[Kassia]

:grouphug:

 

I would follow your dd's wishes.  

[Pawz4me]

I wouldn't force her to go. Eleven is very young to deal with big stuff like death and dying. Some kids can handle it at that age and others can't. It wouldn't do either your DD or your grandmother any good if you forced DD to go and she got very upset. That's not what your grandmother needs right now.

 

FWIW, my mother passed away a few years ago. Our boys were 14 and 17 at the time and their cousins were 18 and 22. Only my 17 yo DS and 18 yo niece came the last day, and both chose to be present when she passed. Neither our 14 yo nor our 22 yo nephew felt like they could handle being there and we all respected their decision.

[zoobie]

It was really, really difficult for me to watch my grandmother pass in hospice care when I was in my late 20s. At 11, it would have wrecked me. I didn't derive any comfort from her funeral. 

 

I hope your grandmother has a peaceful passing. :grouphug:

[2_girls_mommy]

Agree with the others, having gone through this with two very close relatives a few years ago. I would not make the child go. I would pick up for the funeral and explain that family should be there. 

 

I would be preparing her that it could happen while she is gone. 

[Carol in Cal.]

Is she the kind of person who likes to face things and have closure, or not?  I'd follow her lead but include what I know about her (the answer to that question) in my decision making about whether or not to encourage her to visit.

 

FWIW, I'm the 'face things and have closure' type.  My paternal grandmother died when I was about 14, and I'm very glad that I saw her a couple of days before, and put my hand on her forehead, even though she couldn't talk.  But I have a relative who is very much a 'not' type, and is haunted almost to a PTSD level by remembering the funeral parlor folks carrying her grandmother's body out of the flat where she had died suddenly and unexpectedly.  The relative was about 17 at the time.  So it really depends on the specific character of the person.

 

About the funeral, though, I'd have her go.  That's what families do for each other.

[BusyMom5]

I probably wouldn't take them to see grandma, hospice will ahve a good timeframe on the when- from what you posted it could be just a matter of a few days to a week if she isn't drinking and is already very weak.  If it's possible to cancel the camp, I probably would.  If not, you will be going to pick her up early to go to a funeral- I think she needs to go to that to get closure.  I wouldn't want to break the news over the phone or have her depending on camp staff to support her.  If, after talking to hospice, they thinkit will be more like a month+, then I would go ahead with the camp.

[Wabi Sabi]

My MIL died last week, so we have dealt with this very recently. I would encourage them to go visit her. Funerals are for the living, and it will be too late to say goodbye once she's already gone. 

 

In our family, going to see MIL was never in doubt. It's simply what we do. We spent her final 2-3 weeks sitting with her in the ER (kids too), talking to her on the phone several times a day, visiting daily when she had to be hospitalized, bringing her hamburgers and milkshakes when she refused to eat anything else. She was released from the hospital last Saturday, dh and the kids brought her a chocolate milkshake even though they reported that she was kind of out of it and didn't take more than a sip (I was at work), and she died Sunday morning a couple of hours before we had told her we'd be back to bring her another milkshake. 

Everyone is different, of course, but my kids would have been MUCH more traumatized had they skipped that last visit and they didn't get a chance to see her again. The guilt would have been more than they could bear, I suspect. Now granted, dh and my two kids were MIL's only living family, and the kids were pretty much her sole reason for fighting to live these last few years. 

 

As for camp- I don't know. My ds was supposed to go to camp this summer for 2 weeks, and the camp is a 15 hour drive from home. Finances didn't work out and we couldn't send him, but during all of this I realized that he would've been at camp last week and this week had things worked out, and I don't know what on earth we would have done. Having a funeral without him here would be unthinkable (again, we're her ONLY family) but we would not have had the money to buy him a last minute ticket home and the logistics of driving 15 hours to get him, 15 hours home, then repeat that round trip to take him BACK to camp and then repeat it again to pick him up from camp would have been daunting while trying to plan a funeral. 

As long as your daughter's camp isn't so terribly far from home, however, I would still plan on sending her but with the caveat that you will come pick her up for the funeral if anything should happen while she's gone. 

[Clemsondana]

What will the expectations be in your family, and what is your daughter's temperament? In my family, my parents would not have had us come home from camp even for a funeral - the attitude was very much 'Grandma would have wanted you to go'. When grandparents died when I lived across the country, the thought of me buying an expensive plane ticket to come to a funeral where everybody would be too sad to visit was crazy. When my husband's grandmother died, on the other hand, there was no thought of having the funeral until we could get back - we got tickets for 2 days later, right after my 2-month old got his first round of shots - and landed, changed clothes, and went straight to visitation where I bounced a cranky baby for 2 hours. Family expectations, and the expectations of the dying, vary greatly.

 

As for visiting her in hospice, what do both of them want? When my grandfather was in hospice, he said that he didn't want the grandkids to see him like that, and none of them wanted to be there (they ranged in age from 15-30)...but I was the one who brought changes of clothes for my mom, grandmother, and aunt, and twice I sat in the room so that they could step out for a bit. He didn't seem bothered the time he woke up and saw me - I think of all of the grandkids, I was the one that he would have expected to be there. I didn't have strong feelings about being there or not, so I did whatever was most helpful. When my grandmother died, everybody was there but me (across the country). The grandparents wanted different things, and the family accommodated.

[Katy]

I definitely wouldn't make her come home from camp for a funeral for a great grandmother.

 

I might insist on a 3 minute visit before camp.  But then I worked with hospice patients multiple times when I was in nursing school and loved it, so I might be more inclined to be open to death than most parents.

[gardenmom5]

I didn't have to deal with any lingering illnesses when my kids were younger, but I would be inclined to not force the issue.

 

I would be wiling to go get her from camp if your grandmother dies while she's there.

[PinkyandtheBrains.]

 

 

For my boys, when my Dad passed away last October, I gave them the choice. I brought them to the hospice but they could wait in the waiting room if they were uncomfortable being in the same room. One chose to go in a few times, other other did not. I made sure they both understood that either choice is okay, they needed to do what is comfortable for them.

[catz]

I wouldn't force anyone at any stage.  I left the room when they turned off life support on my father.  I just felt like he was gone already and I didn't need to watch.  The rest of my FOO chose to stay. 

 

ETA - I would also allow her to go to camp if she was wanted to even if she missed the funeral.

Edited July 18, 2017 by WoolySocks

[EMS83]

Just responding to OP, so if I repeat, I'm sorry.  I would not force, but I would explain the reality that if she doesn't visit, she won't get a chance to change her mind and she needs to be able to live with the decision either way.  Same thing or camp.  And then let her make the decision, even if she ends up regretting it later.  If they were younger, maybe my answer would be different somehow?  It's all very difficult, and I'm not sure there is really a right anything, so don't stress on that front.  I hope your grandmother is comfortable.  I'm sorry!

[StaceyinLA]

If the great-grandmother is alert and aware enough to know that your dd isn't there, and would ask about her, I'd try to encourage dd to see her once more for a few minutes. I wouldn't force it, but I'd probably encourage it, especially if they were at all close.

 

The funeral wouldn't be up for discussion. I wouldn't make my child stay home from camp, but they would be expected to pay their respects, so I'd certainly pick them up early to attend.