HOA on a power trip - UPDATE in first post

[lexi]

So we suddenly got a notice that our mailbox was rusty and "not in compliance." Whatever. They told us we had 30 days to replace it.

So we did. It was slightly bent which made it hard to close so it wasn't a huge deal. It probably needed to be replaced. Of course we had to order the specific box that is "approved" (read: not at all cheap). Ugh.

Today I got a notice that the back of our house needs "paint maintenance" and I have 30 days to comply.

It is true that the back of our house is faded. It is all a uniform color due to the fading. But the back is not the same color as the front anymore. The previous owners used cheap paint and only 1 coat. Sigh.

This year we got bids for the painting because I have been wanting to repaint the house. I never liked the original color. It's $4,000-$5,000 to paint my 3 story house. There is no way I can do it myself. My house is super tall and steep.

We told the painter we want to be on his schedule next year. So we'll save up this year and pick a color. Then we'll have it painted.

We live in a colder climate and painters only do exteriors in the warmer months. Most are already booked for the rest of this year.

I'm so so mad! They can't force me to paint my house in 30 days. That's not even reasonable! I can't afford it at the moment.

Our covenants don't talk about paint. It only says the exterior must not be "unsightly." Who determines what is unsightly?? I don't think my faded paint is unsightly. No siding is sagging. All the trim is in good shape. My exterior is in great condition. It's just that the paint is faded. And while I don't enjoy the color, I don't magically have the extra thousands of dollars to paint it.

I know lots of people don't like HOA's. And I get why. But please don't make this a discussion about that. As of today, I'm no longer a fan of my HOA. But I'm stuck with them at the moment.

I would like ideas on what to do. What recourse do I have? How should I word emails to them? Who defines what is unsightly? How could I possibly do this in 30 days?

I want to remain as polite as possible while being firm.
I'm going to paint my house next summer. We are saving up for that. What can I do about my HOA in the meantime??

 

UPDATE:

So I called a board member and spoke to him and outlined these points. He agreed with me and said he would back my request to have the house painted next year as planned. 

I called our property manager and spoke with her. She understood my concerns and said she would bring my issue before the board to get approval to have my house painted next year. I'm currently waiting on their verdict (which yes, I will get in writing). I'm hoping that since the president has spoken to me already, the request will go through quickly and without issues. 

In the meantime, I have submitted, in writing, my request as well as information from my painter that we are on his schedule for next June. 

Now I wait. (I am still annoyed as I wait though....)

Schedule

Edited June 9, 2017 by lexi

[Jean in Newcastle]

Is there recourse for discussion or an appeal in the HOA covenant? 

[OneStepAtATime]

Write a clear, unemotional, politely worded letter to the head of the HOA saying basically what you said here.

 

1. You are putting aside the money to paint the house.

 

2. You have already sought out a painter but none are available until next summer.

 

3. Your house will therefore be painted next summer.

 

Then see if they toss it back at you. Do they have the power to issue sanctions/take away your house? Is there a written process for protesting if this turns ugly?

Edited June 8, 2017 by OneStepAtATime

[Paige]

You should appeal ASAP. Our HOA is being a pain too- we got a notice because our "roof has pollen on it." ??? They do have power over you so your best bet is to try to work out an agreement quickly. I'd send a letter and call and talk to someone in person.

 

A neighbor got a notice because the HOA thought her tree was dead and was able to simply talk it out by letting them know it was a late bloomer. Hopefully you can reach a real person who will decide someone was overzealous or at least give you some time if you can work out a plan.

[EmilyGF]

Gently, have you been going to your HOA's meetings? 

 

In our (very small) HOA, the only people who end up mad at the HOA are those who never come, so they end up not having a say in the decisions and not understanding the why behind things. One family actually moved out in a huff after our yearly HOA meeting because they felt they were treated unfairly, yet had they come, the whole issue could likely have been resolved in the meeting.

 

FWIW, our HOA has even talked about establishing a fund for hardship needs. Our HOA (which is a very good one; we had a terrible one before), would probably respond well to a letter explaining that you have a plan to deal with the problem.

 

Finally, our HOA was informed that if it did not enforce its rules for long enough, they would no longer be considered enforceable by law. So legal advice like that that might cause a change in enforcement. That was when our HOA started send "reminders" about repairs.

 

Do send your letter, it sounds reasonable.

 

Emily

[Lanny]

If your HOA is like our HOA there are rules that are written down.  Our HOA just updated our rules, which had not been updated since 2004. We had a special meeting to review and approve the new rules, last Saturday.  

 

Hopefully they will be satisfied that you are going to do this during the Summer of 2018.

ETA: Our new rules give the HOA more power to enforce the rules. Before, if we had a neighbor who was playing Music at all hours, at huge volume levels, we had little way to enforce the regulations. The new rules will (hopefully) help us with that. Recently, someone rented their home and the Renter (a Cuban) had loud music on disturbing the entire neighborhood. Now, between the laws the police have and the regulations the HOA has we can hopefully cope better with loud neighbors.

 

And, early this week, there was a problem with the water from the water company.  If one person complains, any utility will take their time to get to them, to see what the problem is.  If the Administrator of our HOA goes there and complains for everyone (as she did), they get to us more quickly. 

 

Edited June 8, 2017 by Lanny

[gardenmom5]

have you contacted the hoa to say you have already been looking into repainting your townhouse, and how much it will cost - that painters are booked for the season - and you are on their schedule for next year?   

[Annie G]

I don't think I consider fading paint on the back of a house to be unsightly. Unsightly is ugly or unpleasant to look at. There area  lot of things that fall into that category but fading paint doesn't bother me if the house is in good repair. 

 

Having said that, I would caution you not to mention that all the painters are booked. Sure, mention that the painter you want is booked. You just don't want someone on the board to push you into using a painter that is available now (such as his brother in law who sucks at painting so he's not booked). 

 

30 days is not a reasonable amount of time to give you to have a large project completed. I think HOAs need to write their bylaws to allow different amounts of time depending on the complexity of the project.  It would be entirely reasonable for you to explain what your plan is - paint in a year- and for them to grant you that time. 

 

Hope you get it worked out without it causing you too much stress. It would totally bother me. 

[lexi]

So far I've called one board member who is now on my side.

 

We were unable to go to the last meeting but we sent a neighbor as our proxy. I'm doing my best to be informed and proactive.

 

I'm calling property management company next. I'm going to present those very points and see what happens.

 

I have never ever had an issue with the HOA or any neighbor in the past. We have a small neighborhood and most people are truly great.

 

I was just so taken aback by the request and the short notice. It was totally unreasonable.

 

I wanted to get perspective before I made phone calls or sent emails. I didn't want to do anything rash or be rude.

 

So thanks for all the suggestions. One phone call down and one to go. Not how I wanted to spend my day.

[bettyandbob]

There's always one doofus who gets on the board to do this kind of stupid crap. Hopefully you can find a couple sane people on the board to help you.

[MooCow]

Ugh. I feel your pain. Our has been a target for a specific person. Now that the lady who used to be in charge is gone, I think it's about to step up again.

 

I was sitting on my porch Monday morning and the guy stopped at my house, took a picture, then one of the house across the street. I'm dreading looking at my mail.

[Guest]

I am very wary of the despotism of the HOA. But the best way to manage it is to get more involved, not less, so you can have some influence and say. Know thy enemy right? ;)

[Tess in the Burbs]

well my HOA once sent me a letter b/c my trash can was in my driveway for all of 30 min.  I was cleaning it out and had put bleach in it and walked inside for a minute while the spies walked by looking for issues.    My neighbors all had notices monthly about their roofs being cleaned.  Even after cleaning they got notices.  

I had to fight a few things with my HOA...fines over minor stuff. The difficulty is while you have this group of people making policy, many don't handle money and the letters come from an agency hired to do the paperwork for them.  So you have to go to the meeting to get any answers and then deal with the legal agency end of it .    I agree, go to the meetings.  Show up and ask to challenge or ask for extension.  If the rules are super outlined force them to do the process of being super detailed.  Our HOA book was over 2 inches thick! Just know the meeting may just be the tip of the issue...and you may also have a legal agency to deal with as well.  I know we got a letter years after we moved away about a pool fine...that took forever to get fixed.   

We no longer live in an HOA and won't again if we can help it.  Good luck.  

[ashfern]

I'm on the HOA board for our neighborhood. We have a management company that we've been using for the past 2 years. We're still trying to get them to send out notices for certain things (shutters that have fallen off and not been replaced) and not for others (moveable basketball hoops). For our violation notices we have to use the timing in the bylaws but as soon as someone contacts the management company to let them know that they're working on the issue, she puts a hold on that violation. All of our violations are things on the front of the house, visible from the road, or visible to neighbors. We haven't had neighbors complain though. I would send a letter to the HOA letting them know that you were aware that the home needs painting and are on the schedule. If you have any correspondence from the painter send that along too. Hopefully they will put a hold on the violation. Good luck! I'm about done living in a neighborhood.

[vonfirmath]

You should appeal ASAP. Our HOA is being a pain too- we got a notice because our "roof has pollen on it." ??? They do have power over you so your best bet is to try to work out an agreement quickly. I'd send a letter and call and talk to someone in person.

 

A neighbor got a notice because the HOA thought her tree was dead and was able to simply talk it out by letting them know it was a late bloomer. Hopefully you can reach a real person who will decide someone was overzealous or at least give you some time if you can work out a plan.

 

In our HOA, if you communicate with them, they are very reasonable. Will work out payments, put a violation on pause while you get a chance to work on it, etc. But you need to communicate/talk to us/them to know what is going on and not that you are just ignoring the communication.

 

(in our HOA the property management sends out those notices. The board only gets involved if there is a problem. That's why we hire the management company. So the management company is the first person to address if you have a problem in fixing the problem in the time given)

 

Edited June 8, 2017 by vonfirmath

[PrincessMommy]

Gently, have you been going to your HOA's meetings? 

 

In our (very small) HOA, the only people who end up mad at the HOA are those who never come, so they end up not having a say in the decisions and not understanding the why behind things. One family actually moved out in a huff after our yearly HOA meeting because they felt they were treated unfairly, yet had they come, the whole issue could likely have been resolved in the meeting.

 

FWIW, our HOA has even talked about establishing a fund for hardship needs. Our HOA (which is a very good one; we had a terrible one before), would probably respond well to a letter explaining that you have a plan to deal with the problem.

 

Finally, our HOA was informed that if it did not enforce its rules for long enough, they would no longer be considered enforceable by law. So legal advice like that that might cause a change in enforcement. That was when our HOA started send "reminders" about repairs.

 

Do send your letter, it sounds reasonable.

 

Emily

 

This explains so much.  My HOA started to become much more controlling and nit-picky in the last couple of years.   Our first indication was also a notice about our mailbox leaning 10 degrees.   :confused1:

 

I agree with others about sending a letter.  I had to send one once because I missed the deadline accidentally, but we did have a serious issue.  I asked if they would review my request as an emergency (garage doors has both come off the wall), which they kindly did and approved me.  

[OneStepAtATime]

So far I've called one board member who is now on my side.

 

We were unable to go to the last meeting but we sent a neighbor as our proxy. I'm doing my best to be informed and proactive.

 

I'm calling property management company next. I'm going to present those very points and see what happens.

 

I have never ever had an issue with the HOA or any neighbor in the past. We have a small neighborhood and most people are truly great.

 

I was just so taken aback by the request and the short notice. It was totally unreasonable.

 

I wanted to get perspective before I made phone calls or sent emails. I didn't want to do anything rash or be rude.

 

So thanks for all the suggestions. One phone call down and one to go. Not how I wanted to spend my day.

FWIW, while phone calls can be really helpful, I would also want something sent in writing.  Phone calls can be mis-remembered. 

[Angie in VA]

HOAs have lots of power here, as in "You'd lose in court" power. I understand that one main purpose of HOAs is to retain property value. I contend that "property value" is a relative term. 

 

I hope they will give you an extension as you have already begun saving for and booking a painter.

Edited June 8, 2017 by Angie in VA

[KungFuPanda]

I did not know people cleaned their roofs!

 

My HOA has no teeth unless you're going to sell, then you have to have all of your ducks in a row. I remember we all got letters the week after they gave us these enormous blue recycling cans. They didn't want to see them from the street. You can see them from SPACE! I don't have a garage. The whole town ignored them and they gave up.

[Valley Girl]

I would contact the HOA and explain the situation. If you were planning on painting anyway (as opposed to challenging their claim that you need to paint all), show them the estimate or communication you have from the company you're using. Maybe if they know is scheduled and that you're saving up for the project, they will work with you. I agree it's ridiculous to expect people to cough up thousands of dollars and, of course, line up an available contractor in 30 days. The management company of our HOA, for instance, really wants to work with people and is always encouraging residents to talk with them about issues/notices when there is a problem. With them, at least, communication seems to be key. Hope that's all it takes with your HOA.

[matrips]

My old hoa would send send letters like that once a year after their annual inspection. When I would call them, the deadline was usually just to get attention. If I said I had such and such scheduled and here was the color and date etc, they were fine with it. If I didn't call in, then I assume that after 30 days, they could escalate it.

[Lecka]

My dad used to be active in his..... here is how it was there..... they had a few actual problem homes.

 

But they can't single those actual problem homes out, or they will get called out on that.

 

And then for the known problem homes -- they need to stay on top of it or it will just get bad quickly.

 

So they send the notices out pretty indiscriminately, and then they work with everybody who is clearly keeping their house up. Very easily, like -- one phone call easy.

 

They like to hear "we have plans to deal with it."

 

If -- for all they know -- you have no issue to deal with it, ever, then they need to start their paperwork because maybe the people who don't do anything have so many notices they can get.

 

For background though, it was duplexes and they would have never cared about the paint issue you have.

 

The main issue too was with landlords. They wanted a good reputation so that cheap landlords wouldn't think they could just not do any upkeep. Some landlords don't care about notices unless it is going to escalate, so the HOA felt like they needed to keep on top of it.

 

But in practice -- they were very reasonable imo with people who were not content to let rental properties become rundown.

[Butter]

I'm pretty sure our HOA is just a way to get money over and above the (very high) HOA fees.  They charge for everything.  Sometimes they are reasonable.  For example, my daughter got a car.  Before we could get it registered with the HOA and get a sticker put on it, we got a notice that we needed to get it registered.  Fine, but security isn't allowed to go in driveways to leave notices for some reason so they had to mail us the notice.  We got it and got her car registered (on their time - only allowed to come after lunch - which is why we didn't get it done as soon as she got the car) and then we got another notice in the mail dated just a week after the first... and BEFORE we got the first notice in the mail (the second notice came over a week after the sticker was put on her car).  I wrote a letter to the HOA and they waived the $50 fine because they aren't supposed to give violations that close together because of paperwork and mailing time.

 

We can't go to the meetings, though.  We're only allowed to go to the annual meeting.  They were trying to assess us once for problems with the grass not on our property, but on the empty lot next door.  What they had a problem with was literally not our yard.  And they were charging us $30 a DAY for that strip of dead grass.  So we tried going to the monthly meeting and they FREAKED.  They told us we were not allowed to come to those meetings, they are private meetings, how dare we think we'd be allowed.  It was really weird.  They let us come in for about 2 minutes to explain the problem that they had ignored in repeated letters.  They waived the fines because we managed to convince them that grass didn't belong to us because, well, it didn't.  But they told us never to attempt to come to a meeting again.  The weirdest part was we learned the HOA board members don't like in any of the neighborhoods the HOA is covered by.  They all live in other communities.  I still haven't figured that one out.

[bettyandbob]

My HOA allows anyone to attend meetings. Over 25 years I have been occasionally annoyed. A few neighbors had a true complaint about the behavior of the self appointed parking dude. It was brought the attention of the rest of the board. Self appointed parking dude has since knocked it off. Surprisingly he doesn't understand people in the neighborhood universally dislike him.

 

In general my HOA has been positive and maintained property values. You guys have all these nightmares. I guess I'm lucky.

[bethben]

180 neighbors and I once got a letter explaining how our yards weren't up to the standards and we better fix the problem or we would be fined.  I had 5 weeds in my yard (yes, I counted).  It had just stopped snowing 2 weeks before (we get late snow) and we were getting ready to get the fertilizer/weed kill on the lawn.  There was A LOT of uproar on that one.  Most people's yard were like mine with minimal weeds.  Some were justified, but most were not.