I feel like a brat...(gift giving)

[marbel]

I'm wasn't really sold on the love languages idea, but I've come to think it can help people to understand others.  (I have read one of the books.)

 

It took me over 20 years, and my husband a lot longer, but we just figured out that gifts is one of his mom's love languages.  Duh!  That's why she buys us so much crap every year. That's why even though it seems she doesn't want anything, and we're never sure she likes anything we get, she doesn't want to stop exchanging gifts.  Knowing that has helped us change our attitude toward buying for her this year.   We were able to find something that we think she'll like, based on an interest she has, but we're not stressed over it being perfect. Because we know it's the giving that counts.

 

That doesn't mean we'd run to Walmart on Dec 24 and get her the first thing we see because the gift doesn't matter.  But it helped us change our thinking about gifts for her. Knowing that simply giving her a gift is part of what makes her feel loved... well, it just helps.  It helps make the shopping easier and less of a burden.  

 

It is not a definition of what others need to do to  make us happy.   It is a way to understand the people in our lives because we would like to do what we can to help them to be happy.   

 

OP, I'm sorry.   :grouphug:  I am not super into gifts myself but I do understand the hurt of buying my own stocking stuffers or seeing my husband move something out of his stocking into mine (even though of course I was the one stuffing his!) because whoa, here it is Christmas morning and mine's empty!   :closedeyes:  It's not that he doesn't care.  It's just not on his radar.  It's gotten better now that I have a teen daughter who understands and will say "OK, DAD, what are you doing for mom's gifts?"    But I also have gotten better about speaking up. 

 

I don't think you're bratty at all.  

 

:grouphug:  OP!  

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 21, 2016 by marbel

[fraidycat]

If I didn't understand how important touch was to my husband I would not be able to meet those needs of his. I need my space like crazy especially while I'm sleeping so being aware has made it so that I can compromise and focus on meeting his needs. I'm grateful to know how important it is to him.

Touch is my DH's too. I have been told that even as a baby I didn't like to be held and wanted my space, so to overcome something that has been outside my nature since birth to "speak his language", it means I have to know what that language is. I'm grateful for the information too.

[Guest]

Also, re: stockings. I fill all the stockings, including my own. It would not occur to me to leave mine hanging there empty, if only because that looks bad from a decorating perspective, lol!

[EmseB]

I absolutely hear the hurt and disappointment in your post, and I'm sorry you're having such a hard time. I don't think you sound "bratty" at all.

 

However, as the person on the other side of this equation in my own marriage, I have to say that, for those of us who are not "into" gifts as a love language, trying to live up to the hopes of a person who puts so much significance on gifting requires so much more than "a tiny bit of effort."

 

In my own case, I live in a constant state of low-level stress beginning in August, because my husband's birthday is in early September, followed by Christmas before I can even catch my breath and lick my wounds from yet another failure to give "a good gift." I definitely "understand" that this stuff matters to my husband, but that doesn't make me magically able to do it well.

 

We've known each other since elementary school and have been married for over 20 years. I've worked really hard to try and do well by him in this regard, especially once I realized how important it is to him. He, too, has sat me down and told me in no uncertain terms more than once that it is important and why. 

 

I care. I care so much that I am sometimes nearly paralyzed with indecision and denial and unable to cope with buying or making gifts for him until the absolutely last second, because I am so upset knowing that, no matter what I do, it will be wrong or not enough.

 

More often than I like to remember, I have ended up putting a collection of apparently random items under the tree, just so he has something to unwrap, knowing he will be sad and disappointed. There have been many years I have actually come to dread Christmas as a result.

 

I know he doesn't do this intentionally and that he does not mean to cause me pain any more than I intend to "neglect" him. He's just no better at hiding his reaction than I am at figuring out how to do this whole present thing in a way that makes him happy.

 

So, I don't know if it helps you at all to hear it, but it's entirely possible that your husband does understand and care and really, genuinely try. His failure may very well be no reflection at all of how he feels about you or how much he wants to please you; he's just not as good as this as you are.

 

This is where I think love languages falls short.  A person's love language should not be used to make someone else miserable.  One spouse's desires should not turn into demands which end up making the other person miserable through the holidays. This makes your DH sound extremely rude, unforgiving, and callous that he would ruin your holidays in his quest for the perfect gift receiving experience, which he demands you to be able to read his mind for.  He sat you down and told you how important this is and why? Okay, so?  That doesn't trump everyone else's feelings or efforts.  Gah.  I wouldn't be anxious every single year, I'd have a hard time not being bitter and resentful.  Probably not helpful, but this post just put my hackles up. I lived with someone like this and decided, no, they did not have the right to make me feel like this.  "Not intentionally" just seems like a cop out...unless he's not neurotypical, he can accept a gift that has a lot of thought and care put into it gracefully.  People do this all the time.

 

(this is a tangent, not related to the OP, this is not what I think the OP is doing)

[maize]

Also, re: stockings. I fill all the stockings, including my own. It would not occur to me to leave mine hanging there empty, if only because that looks bad from a decorating perspective, lol!

 

Yep, I fill my own stocking too.

[Seasider]

This is where I think love languages falls short. A person's love language should not be used to make someone else miserable. One spouse's desires should not turn into demands which end up making the other person miserable through the holidays. This makes your DH sound extremely rude, unforgiving, and callous that he would ruin your holidays in his quest for the perfect gift receiving experience, which he demands you to be able to read his mind for. He sat you down and told you how important this is and why? Okay, so? That doesn't trump everyone else's feelings or efforts. Gah. I wouldn't be anxious every single year, I'd have a hard time not being bitter and resentful. Probably not helpful, but this post just put my hackles up. I lived with someone like this and decided, no, they did not have the right to make me feel like this. "Not intentionally" just seems like a cop out...unless he's not neurotypical, he can accept a gift that has a lot of thought and care put into it gracefully. People do this all the time.

 

(this is a tangent, not related to the OP, this is not what I think the OP is doing)

I must admit, I had a similar reaction to reading your post, Jenny.

 

The whole "love languages" thing is so..... first-world. I've seen it used to justify more poor behavior than good behavior, to be honest.

[scrapbookbuzz]

 He will ask what I want, and I feel like he doesn't even know me!

 

This is a common misconception women have - that their men will automatically know what to get them for gifts.

Unless they have the gift of giving, they won't "automatically know" what we want. And they DON'T get hints. They just don't. If you want your spouse to know what you want, you must be very specific with him. And even that's not a guarantee!  One year, early in our marriage, I gave DH three pages of those long Post-It notes filled with items I would like for Christmas. I didn't expect ALL of them, just one or two would be nice. On DECEMBER 23, he says, "Becca (our maybe-5 year old daughter) and I are going to Big Lots." I knew WHY he was going. I also knew NOTHING on my list was sold at Big Lots.

 

 

DH and I have been married near 22 years and he still has to ask. He even told me this year that he feels as if he asks and then goes and gets what I asked it doesn't feel (to him) like it's thoughtful gift. I can assure you that those of us with the love language of giving do not view it that way. We would rather tell you what we want AND have you give us what we told you we wanted than try to surprise us if you really can't think of anything else. To us, giving us what we asked for means that you were LISTENING and that in itself is a gift.

[Kassia]

I fill my own stockings and wrap/buy my own gifts from DH.  It doesn't bother me at all, but I would feel bad if I hoped for gifts and communicated that to him and saw no effort on his part.  

[busymama7]

Also, re: stockings. I fill all the stockings, including my own. It would not occur to me to leave mine hanging there empty, if only because that looks bad from a decorating perspective, lol!

We work together to get Santa stuff out quickly and quietly. Anything that's going in everyone's (like candy, oranges etc) goes in mine too so it isn't empty. But I buy small things that are personalized to each child (3-4 items) and while I have bought stuff for me sometimes before it just isnt fun. So I've asked him to please get a few things for me so I can have a bit of surprise in my stocking too. Sometimes he does but usually he forgets. I can think of a million things to get myself that would fit in there but i do get that it's just not that easy for him to come up with. I'm not angry with him. It just is a bit of a letdown. I have lots of kids to focus on and try to just make it about them and just not worry about it. Yesterday just shocked me as I really thought my daughter would just do it for me since she knows her dad is bad at this. I will now resume not thinking about anything for myself and just make sure the kids have a good time. Really, I'm not going to ruin everyone's Christmas over this. No one will even know im disappointed, not even dh. I do have practice 😉

 

ETA: this year everyone is getting a package of fun socks in their stocking. I knew they would notice if I don't get any so I did buy some for myself. I thought of asking him to, so at least that would be a surprise but I didn't know if he would follow through so I just did it myself. We have so many young kids that still believe that calling him out for it as the post below wouldn't work :)

Edited December 21, 2016 by busymama7

[MysteryJen]

Hugs, OP. It is not the gift, but the effort that is important to me. Because if he tries to find a nice gift, it means he has been listening and thinking a little about it.

 

That is what I want. The thought and effort behind the gift.

 

Dh did not fill my stocking on St. Nicholas Day a couple of times (most recently last year). The kids were appalled and told him so loudly and clearly. This year, I had a nice stocking.

[fraidycat]

We work together to get Santa stuff out quickly and quietly. Anything that's going in everyone's (like candy, oranges etc) goes in mine too so it isn't empty. But I buy small things that are personalized to each child (3-4 items) and while I have bought stuff for me sometimes before it just isnt fun. So I've asked him to please get a few things for me so I can have a bit of surprise in my stocking too. Sometimes he does but usually he forgets. I can think of a million things to get myself that would fit in there but i do get that it's just not that easy for him to come up with. I'm not angry with him. It just is a bit of a letdown. I have lots of kids to focus on and try to just make it about them and just not worry about it. Yesterday just shocked me as I really thought my daughter would just do it for me since she knows her dad is bad at this. I will now resume not thinking about anything for myself and just make sure the kids have a good time. Really, I'm not going to ruin everyone's Christmas over this. No one will even know im disappointed, not even dh. I do have practice 😉

After Christmas, though, do let your DH know. And give him a list of ideas for stocking-sized gifts - today - make a list of ideas and text or email it to him. He's still got time to at least get the stocking right! If you've got a million ideas, he can narrow it down and still surprise you. Help him succeed.

[freesia]

After Christmas, though, do let your DH know. And give him a list of ideas for stocking-sized gifts - today - make a list of ideas and text or email it to him. He's still got time to at least get the stocking right! If you've got a million ideas, he can narrow it down and still surprise you. Help him succeed.

 

Yes!

[marbel]

If people are using the idea of love languages as a way to make others feel they don't measure up, they are missing the point. (OP, I'm not getting that idea from you, just a general feeling from reading some of the posts here.)  Ideally, people are exploring this to find out more about the people in their lives.  It's great if couples explore it together and talk about it.  

 

After Christmas, though, do let your DH know. And give him a list of ideas for stocking-sized gifts - today - make a list of ideas and text or email it to him. He's still got time to at least get the stocking right! If you've got a million ideas, he can narrow it down and still surprise you. Help him succeed.

 

 

 

Yeah, I would definitely let your husband know that you would like to be remembered at Christmas.  Give a few ideas now for stockings, but, but don't end the conversation there.

 

Gift-giving can be hard, and I think women particularly can be challenging. For example, I like to cook and enjoy receiving some sorts of kitchen/household things as gifts, but not everything.  At this stage of my life, a vacuum would not seem like a very good gift to me.  However, a nice new saute pan would be great.  One year I asked for dishtowels.  I was picturing pretty ones, but my husband bought the giant pack of bar towels at Costco.  OK, well... I got what I asked for. And they are certainly useful.  And cheap enough that if they get stained, it doesn't matter too much.  

 

And OP, start working on training your kids now!  Help your sons (do you have sons?) be more sensitive to gift-giving.  Train your daughters (if you have any) how to let their future spouses know what pleases them with regard to gift-giving - without being demanding or manipulative.  It can be done!

 

Edited December 21, 2016 by marbel

[J-rap]

I think understanding each other's love language can be super helpful.  You learn to not take things personally.  I think love languages can also be used as a "crutch."  As in, "Sorry, this is just how I am.  I can't change.  Get used to it." 

 

But, I do get what the OP is saying!  In our early years of marriage I was offended when my dh didn't get into gift-giving or commercial holidays at all.  It wasn't out of laziness;  it was a strong moral conviction he held.  Eventually I began to really respect that in him.

 

The kids have grown up knowing that, so now at Christmas, he'll received a joint gift from the kids that is actually a donation to a charity, and I'll received a joint gift that is a day at the spa, or a new television set.   :D  So, yeah, I feel a little bratty too!  But we've come to an understanding and respect each other's choices, and for some reason our kids don't think it's strange at all.

 

 

[HS Mom in NC]

I'm not at all a gift person, but I understand your point of view and your complaint is perfectly valid.

He's yet another person with poor time management skills who ruins it for someone else.  I'm sorry that happens to you.  I would have a very candid conversation with him about it.  Plenty of people with poor time management skills just excuse themselves based on personality and don't feel morally obligated to learn some time management skills so they aren't screwing it up for other people. I didn't intuit most of my time management skills, I learned, practiced, and mastered them. My time management affects other people because I'm not a hermit.  I'm also not naturally good at large scale spacial skills, but I managed to make extra effort to learn to park without damaging other people's vehicles or my own. It's a moral obligation.    

I don't think you can ever expect a non-creative type to come up with creative gifts, that's like expecting a turtle to fly.  I do think it's a reasonable expectation to have someone get you a gift in a timely way from a gift suggestion list that you provide. 

Many men are absolutely clueless that to many women effort=love.  They need to be taught it explicitly.

[wintermom]

I do hear what you are saying. And it's not like I won't be happy with my life if he doesnt give me good gifts. But it does hurt especially since I put so much effort into gifts for him.

 

For me, it hasn't been ridiculous. It's made me understand myself more so I get why it's hurtful. It doesn't change his behavior but it makes me feel better that I'm not just some materialistic gimme gimme person. I just want to be thought of. Knowing my husbands language is physical touch helps me to know not to allow that side of our relationship get neglected.

 

Seems like it just focuses your mind on material gifts, especially when you know he isn't the gift-giving kind of person. Is there no other way he can show you his love that you'd accept?

[Anne in CA]

This is what I really hate about the ridiculous "love language" idea; it becomes a reason to define exactly what others need to do for us to be "happy."  I see the JAWM, but I would be mindful of this kind of thinking. It's not going to make a marriage better.

I think it COULD be seen as things others need to do to make one happy, but mostly I think it is validating to a person. No one likes to be hurt and the person doing the hurting dismisses it with "you should just be happy". I think the love language concept helps people figure out what they need from a relationship. It doesn't guarantee that they will get it. Many people need affirmation and are married to people who cannot/ will not be affirming. It helps to know you are not a jerk if you have needs that aren't being met.  You do need to identify needs and get your own needs met when you have a marriage partner who can't/ won't meet them. 

 

Everyone has a right to get their needs met. And believe me, needs get met in unhealthy ways if you don't meet them in good ways. A person is not a needy jerk for having needs. The OP just wants to feel listened to, that is a legit need.

[busymama7]

Seems like it just focuses your mind on material gifts, especially when you know he isn't the gift-giving kind of person. Is there no other way he can show you his love that you'd accept?

That's just silly. Of course. I have no doubt of his love for me. It's not about not accepting anything else. It's simply that Christmas is a big deal at our house and a big deal to him. He wants a huge celebration and I create that for him and our kids but I often get forgotten or I feel like an afterthought. That is hurtful

[busymama7]

I'm not at all a gift person, but I understand your point of view and your complaint is perfectly valid.

 

He's yet another person with poor time management skills who ruins it for someone else. I'm sorry that happens to you. I would have a very candid conversation with him about it. Plenty of people with poor time management skills just excuse themselves based on personality and don't feel morally obligated to learn some time management skills so they aren't screwing it up for other people. I didn't intuit most of my time management skills, I learned, practiced, and mastered them. My time management affects other people because I'm not a hermit. I'm also not naturally good at large scale spacial skills, but I managed to make extra effort to learn to park without damaging other people's vehicles or my own. It's a moral obligation.

 

I don't think you can ever expect a non-creative type to come up with creative gifts, that's like expecting a turtle to fly. I do think it's a reasonable expectation to have someone get you a gift in a timely way from a gift suggestion list that you provide.

 

Many men are absolutely clueless that to many women effort=love. They need to be taught it explicitly.

We've been married 20 years. I have been unable to help him in this area (time management) for all these years. Believe me, I've tried. Again and again.

 

We've had calm discussions about gifts at times other than Christmas. He knows how I feel about this. I sent him a list in early December. It would be amazing if he came up with something all on his own but really I'm happy if he just plans ahead and gets something from my list.

 

And actually, a box showed up from Amazon late last night that was snatched right away and kept from me so there is hope :).

[marbel]

That's just silly. Of course. I have no doubt of his love for me. It's not about not accepting anything else. It's simply that Christmas is a big deal at our house and a big deal to him. He wants a huge celebration and I create that for him and our kids but I often get forgotten or I feel like an afterthought. That is hurtful

 

:grouphug:   OP, can you say this (maybe you already have) to your husband directly?  Just say that exact thing.  Gah.  No one should feel like an afterthought, particularly when that person is working to make something special for other people.

[Guest]

Touch is my DH's too. I have been told that even as a baby I didn't like to be held and wanted my space, so to overcome something that has been outside my nature since birth to "speak his language", it means I have to know what that language is. I'm grateful for the information too.

I was that baby too, and even as an adult struggle with touch with the family. Hubby? A natural born snuggler.

 

Cue head smack.

[happi duck]

When a couple each have a different native language I don't think it would be asking too much to say "honey I'm exhausted. Please use my native language tonight. Even though I *can* communicate in your native language sometimes I just really need the comfort and ease of *my* native language."

 

Love languages aren't about being demanding. Imo, it's about not always making your loved one translate and also learning to hear when your loved one is using another language.

[HS Mom in NC]

Seems like it just focuses your mind on material gifts, especially when you know he isn't the gift-giving kind of person. Is there no other way he can show you his love that you'd accept?

 

Generally speaking, I would agree, but it's a social norm to give gifts on certain occasions like Christmas and birthdays. Her family seems to be participating in that.  I don't think it's unreasonable for him to give his wife a gift twice a year, especially when she's given him a list.  Every single time it doesn't have to be from is preferred approach (and for the record, his preference is the same as mine.) Relationships should have some give and take both ways sometimes.

[HS Mom in NC]

We've been married 20 years. I have been unable to help him in this area (time management) for all these years. Believe me, I've tried. Again and again.

 

 

You misunderstand me.  No grown man should have his wife help with with essential life skills.  A grown man should decide for himself he needs to learn some and seek out a way to master them without having his hand held by his wife.  He can ask organized people he knows (not you,) buy a time management book (not one you buy for him,) or look up that information on the internet himself.

 

 

We've had calm discussions about gifts at times other than Christmas. He knows how I feel about this. I sent him a list in early December. It would be amazing if he came up with something all on his own but really I'm happy if he just plans ahead and gets something from my list.

 

And actually, a box showed up from Amazon late last night that was snatched right away and kept from me so there is hope :).

 

[busymama7]

 

I agree but focusing on this aspect would make me crazy. I just have to let it go. And I really do for the most part. I just wanted that item so badly because it would have meant he was paying attention to something deeply important to me. It was symbolic.

[busymama7]

Seems like it just focuses your mind on material gifts, especially when you know he isn't the gift-giving kind of person. Is there no other way he can show you his love that you'd accept?

This statement is really bothering me. This is exactly what I was saying it WASNT. It isn't about the item or what I what. Honestly I could buy the items for myself if I wanted. We could afford it. I just want to feel like he is paying attention to me and what I like or am interested in. I honestly have so many hobbies and so many interests it would take little effort to ask someone or google it. I just want him to think about me. It's the thought behind it that matters to me. Not the item.

[flyingaway]

We have this method. My husband overbuys for me and I return things that were a no way. It's kind of fun to see the random things he thinks I might like. Several times he's hit on things I never would have picked myself, but really enjoyed.

 

If there's something specific that I want, I get it myself because he never quite managed it right and that was frustrating to me and to him in our early years.

 

I've also learned that I have to steer him away from repeat performances. Yes, I loved the pearls, but after the fourth year of more pearl jewelry, I had to redirect because showing up at the jewelers for a return of pearls every year was going to be ridiculous.

[Bluegoat]

I'm wasn't really sold on the love languages idea, but I've come to think it can help people to understand others.  (I have read one of the books.)

 

It took me over 20 years, and my husband a lot longer, but we just figured out that gifts is one of his mom's love languages.  Duh!  That's why she buys us so much crap every year. That's why even though it seems she doesn't want anything, and we're never sure she likes anything we get, she doesn't want to stop exchanging gifts.  Knowing that has helped us change our attitude toward buying for her this year.   We were able to find something that we think she'll like, based on an interest she has, but we're not stressed over it being perfect. Because we know it's the giving that counts.

 

That doesn't mean we'd run to Walmart on Dec 24 and get her the first thing we see because the gift doesn't matter.  But it helped us change our thinking about gifts for her. Knowing that simply giving her a gift is part of what makes her feel loved... well, it just helps.  It helps make the shopping easier and less of a burden.  

 

It is not a definition of what others need to do to  make us happy.   It is a way to understand the people in our lives because we would like to do what we can to help them to be happy.   

 

OP, I'm sorry.   :grouphug:  I am not super into gifts myself but I do understand the hurt of buying my own stocking stuffers or seeing my husband move something out of his stocking into mine (even though of course I was the one stuffing his!) because whoa, here it is Christmas morning and mine's empty!   :closedeyes:  It's not that he doesn't care.  It's just not on his radar.  It's gotten better now that I have a teen daughter who understands and will say "OK, DAD, what are you doing for mom's gifts?"    But I also have gotten better about speaking up. 

 

I don't think you're bratty at all.  

 

:grouphug:  OP!  

 

I think the love languages idea can be useful that way.  But, I also think it is in the end a bit shallow - and it can be detrimental when it keeps us from feeling happy or becomes an excuse to be lazy.  People can't always show love in the way we'd like and I think that should not doom our happiness.

 

In terms of gifts, I hate giving bad gifts and things people have asked for which doesn't seem much like a gift at all to me.  So I hate giving gifts on cue.  This year, I totally rocked gifts for my sister and step-dad, and I am not at all happy with what I got for my mom or dh.  The latter two make me feel like a real %$#@.

 

I'd rather not give gifts at all then those bad ones.

[HS Mom in NC]

I agree but focusing on this aspect would make me crazy. I just have to let it go. And I really do for the most part. I just wanted that item so badly because it would have meant he was paying attention to something deeply important to me. It was symbolic.

 

I understand the gift was symbolic and you wanted him to pay attention to you.  But you mentioned upthread that he has time management problems in general and you have a large family.  I was addressing a root cause that, if fixed, will pay off in many different aspects of life and will actually solve the problem if you give him a list because creativity isn't something everyone is born with.

 

I grew up on a farm and there were 4 kids in our family.  Not able to follow through on things in a timely way wasn't tolerated there because it affected others, including dependent livestock. If we failed to meet stated explanations by a deadline, my mother wouldn't ignore it just because addressing it was a hassle. Avoiding it makes is a short term solution, but in the long term, it continues to be an unnecessary problem affecting others and the resentment builds up.

 

 These are the kinds of things were heard growing up: "How does your failure to get this done affect others?" then mom waited for an answer. If we tried a lame, "I don't know" it was pointed out that we weren't stupid children incapable of figure it out and an answer was expected.  "Exactly what will you do differently next time to make sure this doesn't happen again?" This is important because it shifts responsibility back where it belongs and shows that change is the only acceptable option. Don't treat it like rhetorical question. Wait for an answer or a specific statement like, "I will let you know what I come up with as a solution by tomorrow/this weekend/next week or some sort of realistic time frame. If cognitively  someone honestly can't figure out where to begin then say something like, "I suggest you google something like 'time management skills' or 'how to program your phone/planner/calendar with reminders' to start with.  Get back to me tomorrow/this weekend/next week or some sort of realistic time frame and explain which approaches are likely work best for everyone involved."

[Aura]

I understand the gift was symbolic and you wanted him to pay attention to you.  But you mentioned upthread that he has time management problems in general and you have a large family.  I was addressing a root cause that, if fixed, will pay off in many different aspects of life and will actually solve the problem if you give him a list because creativity isn't something everyone is born with.

 

I grew up on a farm and there were 4 kids in our family.  Not able to follow through on things in a timely way wasn't tolerated there because it affected others, including dependent livestock. If we failed to meet stated explanations by a deadline, my mother wouldn't ignore it just because addressing it was a hassle. Avoiding it makes is a short term solution, but in the long term, it continues to be an unnecessary problem affecting others and the resentment builds up.

 

 These are the kinds of things were heard growing up: "How does your failure to get this done affect others?" then mom waited for an answer. If we tried a lame, "I don't know" it was pointed out that we weren't stupid children incapable of figure it out and an answer was expected.  "Exactly what will you do differently next time to make sure this doesn't happen again?" This is important because it shifts responsibility back where it belongs and shows that change is the only acceptable option. Don't treat it like rhetorical question. Wait for an answer or a specific statement like, "I will let you know what I come up with as a solution by tomorrow/this weekend/next week or some sort of realistic time frame. If cognitively  someone honestly can't figure out where to begin then say something like, "I suggest you google something like 'time management skills' or 'how to program your phone/planner/calendar with reminders' to start with.  Get back to me tomorrow/this weekend/next week or some sort of realistic time frame and explain which approaches are likely work best for everyone involved."

:iagree:

[busymama7]

I understand the gift was symbolic and you wanted him to pay attention to you. But you mentioned upthread that he has time management problems in general and you have a large family. I was addressing a root cause that, if fixed, will pay off in many different aspects of life and will actually solve the problem if you give him a list because creativity isn't something everyone is born with.

 

I grew up on a farm and there were 4 kids in our family. Not able to follow through on things in a timely way wasn't tolerated there because it affected others, including dependent livestock. If we failed to meet stated explanations by a deadline, my mother wouldn't ignore it just because addressing it was a hassle. Avoiding it makes is a short term solution, but in the long term, it continues to be an unnecessary problem affecting others and the resentment builds up.

 

These are the kinds of things were heard growing up: "How does your failure to get this done affect others?" then mom waited for an answer. If we tried a lame, "I don't know" it was pointed out that we weren't stupid children incapable of figure it out and an answer was expected. "Exactly what will you do differently next time to make sure this doesn't happen again?" This is important because it shifts responsibility back where it belongs and shows that change is the only acceptable option. Don't treat it like rhetorical question. Wait for an answer or a specific statement like, "I will let you know what I come up with as a solution by tomorrow/this weekend/next week or some sort of realistic time frame. If cognitively someone honestly can't figure out where to begin then say something like, "I suggest you google something like 'time management skills' or 'how to program your phone/planner/calendar with reminders' to start with. Get back to me tomorrow/this weekend/next week or some sort of realistic time frame and explain which approaches are likely work best for everyone involved."

This sounds ok for a parent child relationship but not a husband/wife one.

 

I am not out to parent or change him. I can't. He holds a job and provides well for our big family. The way he lives sometimes makes me nuts but it's really surprising to me that you are suggesting that I handle this the way your mother handled it with her children. He's an adult. And while I have no problems stating facts like how not doing something on time affected me, I'm wasting my effort trying to change him. He knows what problems he creates. He's not interested enough to change and unless he is I would only be creating bad feelings if I spoke to him like that.

[maize]

Also, innate executive function difficulties are not usually something a person can just decide to change. Brains work the way they work and willpower doesn't change them.

 

They have nothing whatsoever to do with not caring.

 

People who struggle with such things can with great effort set up and maintain frameworks to mitigate the effects, but the underlying challenge is very real and doesn't go away.

[busymama7]

Also, innate executive function difficulties are not usually something a person can just decide to change. Brains work the way they work and willpower doesn't change them.

 

They have nothing whatsoever to do with not caring.

 

People who struggle with such things can with great effort set up and maintain frameworks to mitigate the effects, but the underlying challenge is very real and doesn't go away.

This is what I've learned. I know he cares. I can't comprehend how he can live with himself being late to everything and letting people down or inconviencing people all the time. But somehow he can and thinking he should change just makes me resentful and angry. I have learned to accept it for the most part and just not leave important(time sensitive) things to him. Edited December 21, 2016 by busymama7

[KungFuPanda]

I understand the gift was symbolic and you wanted him to pay attention to you.  But you mentioned upthread that he has time management problems in general and you have a large family.  I was addressing a root cause that, if fixed, will pay off in many different aspects of life and will actually solve the problem if you give him a list because creativity isn't something everyone is born with.

I grew up on a farm and there were 4 kids in our family.  Not able to follow through on things in a timely way wasn't tolerated there because it affected others, including dependent livestock. If we failed to meet stated explanations by a deadline, my mother wouldn't ignore it just because addressing it was a hassle. Avoiding it makes is a short term solution, but in the long term, it continues to be an unnecessary problem affecting others and the resentment builds up.

 These are the kinds of things were heard growing up: "How does your failure to get this done affect others?" then mom waited for an answer. If we tried a lame, "I don't know" it was pointed out that we weren't stupid children incapable of figure it out and an answer was expected.  "Exactly what will you do differently next time to make sure this doesn't happen again?" This is important because it shifts responsibility back where it belongs and shows that change is the only acceptable option. Don't treat it like rhetorical question. Wait for an answer or a specific statement like, "I will let you know what I come up with as a solution by tomorrow/this weekend/next week or some sort of realistic time frame. If cognitively  someone honestly can't figure out where to begin then say something like, "I suggest you google something like 'time management skills' or 'how to program your phone/planner/calendar with reminders' to start with.  Get back to me tomorrow/this weekend/next week or some sort of realistic time frame and explain which approaches are likely work best for everyone involved."

  

This sounds ok for a parent child relationship but not a husband/wife one.

I am not out to parent or change him. I can't. He holds a job and provides well for our big family. The way he lives sometimes makes me nuts but it's really surprising to me that you are suggesting that I handle this the way your mother handled it with her children. He's an adult. And while I have no problems stating facts like how not doing something on time affected me, I'm wasting my effort trying to change him. He knows what problems he creates. He's not interested enough to change and unless he is I would only be creating bad feelings if I spoke to him like that.

I agee with busymama7 here. It seems like a colossally bad and weirdly unhealthy idea to parent your husband. You marry a fully formed adult that you presumedly know. You don't marry some sort of rough draft with an eye towards straightening them out.

 

In the OPs situation I wouldn't be doing all the work to make all the magic happen. It sounds exhausting. I'd be handing "baking for caroling" off to DH and if it didn't happen, oh well . . . natural consequences and all that. He can care about caroling, but if he doesn't care 'enough' to make it happen then it's not really all that important. I would carry zero emotional burden for how that plays out. Still, I picked my husband. I knew what I was getting. I can't swap out his ingrained behaviors for ones I'd prefer. I can only chose not to enable unrealistic expectations with my own physical effort.

[happi duck]

I don't see what HM in AZ posted as "parenting"... it just happened to be a method her parent used.

 

Can't adults in a relationship say "this broken promise has effects"? And "please find a way to remember"?

[marbel]

I don't see what HM in AZ posted as "parenting"... it just happened to be a method her parent used.

 

Can't adults in a relationship say "this broken promise has effects"? And "please find a way to remember"?

 

It really did sound like parenting to me.  I wouldn't appreciate my husband speaking to me that way nor would I ever speak to him in that way.  There are ways for adults to communicate that are just different than parent/child interactions.  "Exactly what will you do differently next time..." man, if my husband said that to me I would be raging.  And I would expect the same from him.  So condescending!  

[happi duck]

It really did sound like parenting to me. I wouldn't appreciate my husband speaking to me that way nor would I ever speak to him in that way. There are ways for adults to communicate that are just different than parent/child interactions. "Exactly what will you do differently next time..." man, if my husband said that to me I would be raging. And I would expect the same from him. So condescending!

I see what you're saying and can understand the exact words seeming condescending between adults. However, I think the concept expressed though is just communication between people in relationship.