Race and Homeschooling Culture

[HS Mom in NC]

The answer to your question is "You prioritize it and create those opportunities."

 

 

 

Sorry, but you're cheating here.  You were asked to give practical advice for how to deal with it in a specific situation where there aren't minorities locally.  You responded by a vague, general platitude that someone should do it without addressing the how.  Please try again because the question was about the how. There's all the difference in the world between choosing not to spend time with the minorities around you and not spending time around people who aren't there.  You seem to be lumping them together.

[maize]

I literally have not seen a software development group in the past 15 years that did not regularly interact with Asian or Indian developers. If your husband isn't working with them, his office is the exception rather than the rule.

 

 

And the software developers in these offices manage to work with their foreign counterparts, right? In spite of the fact that many of them grew up never interacting with people from India?

 

I don't recall ever meeting anyone from Mongolia until I was in my twenties--and yet when I found myself needing to cooperate with a Mongolian colleague we managed just fine.

 

Like regentrude, I'm making an effort to raise my children to be decent human beings. I fully expect them to encounter new situations and new groups of people as adults-- how could I possibly expose them to every culture and ethnic group in the world during their childhoods? They will learn and adapt as they go just as I have.

Edited October 17, 2016 by maize

[SKL]

I would also note that some high-achieving Asian-American communities would tend to prefer the public schools vs. taking it on themselves.  They  increase their kids' educational opportunities by living in good school districts, inculcating a high value for education in their kids, and putting them in academic type extracurriculars if the school isn't doing enough.  I know one guy who basically hired his middle-school-aged kid to give him opportunities in IT (an area where he excelled).  But said kid was public-schooled.

 

I am not sure if the OP is only interested in AA stats or stats of other minorities.  It seems the answer may differ depending on the group.

Edited October 17, 2016 by SKL

[maize]

My dad...was raised in a very small, insular, 100% white farming community. Most of the people in town were related to him.

 

He went on to a career in which he lived in eight different countries, travelled to many more, and regularly interacted with people of all races, ethnicities, and nationalities.

 

I'm really not buying the idea that our kids will be profoundly handicapped if they don't get to interact with a hugely diverse group of people in their youth.

Edited October 17, 2016 by maize

[CaffeineDiary]

My dad...was raised in a very small, insular, 100% white farming community. Most of the people in town were related to him.

 

He went on to a career in which he lived in eight different countries, travelled to many more, and regularly interacted with people of all races, ethnicities, and nationalities.

 

I'm really not buying the idea that our kids will be profoundly handicapped if they don't get to ineract with a hugely diverse group of people in their youth.

 

OK.  Do me a solid, and ask one of your African-American friends if they agree.

[MEmama]

Instead of just trusting anecdotes, we could look at the (somewhat sparse) data that exists.

 

http://www.responsiblehomeschooling.org/homeschooling-101/homeschool-demographics/

 

 

I find the statement in an earlier post above that schools should only focus on academics to be strange. As someone who has worked for many years in several industries, I would assert that someone who has not been personally exposed to people of diverse cultural and ethnic backgrounds, and had the chance to work together with them one on one and to develop the skills to relate to and get along with them, is someone who is completely unprepared for almost any professional career. Dropping a white kid who has virtually never had a serious conversation with an African-American or Hispanic person off at college and saying "OK, good luck with the real world!" strikes me as unconscionable.

This notion is seriously offensive.

 

We happen to live in one of the least racially diverse states in the country. Although DS currently has exactly zero opportunities to befriend kids of a different ethnicity, I can assure you he is far from ill prepared to relate to others. Implying we should seek out people of another race just for that reason is beyond comprehension. Like another poster pointed out, my kid is being raised to be an open, loving, accepting human being. Saying that can't happen without living in a diverse area is beyond laughable.

[luuknam]

OK.  Do me a solid, and ask one of your African-American friends if they agree.

 

I thought the definition of a successful professional career was stuff like doing productive work, getting promotions, not getting fired, etc, not what your daughter's friends think of your career.

[CaffeineDiary]

This notion is seriously offensive.

 

We happen to live in one of the least racially diverse states in the country. Although DS currently has exactly zero opportunities to befriend kids of a different ethnicity, I can assure you he is far from ill prepared to relate to others. Implying we should seek out people of another race just for that reason is beyond comprehension. Like another poster pointed out, my kid is being raised to be an open, loving, accepting human being. Saying that can't happen without living in a diverse area is beyond laughable.

 

I get that you feel like this is attacking your kid somehow, and I promise you I'm not doing that.  But if you can try to not take this personally for a minute: wouldn't you agree that someone who has never met a person from another culture just might be more likely to experience unconscious or implicit bias?  (And just to be crystal clear, I'm not saying 'people who hang out with people of color aren't biased, people who don't are!'  We all have implicit biases to a greater or lesser extent.)

 

Edited October 17, 2016 by CaffeineDiary

[regentrude]

wouldn't you agree that someone who has never met a person from another culture just might be more likely to experience unconscious or implicit bias? 

 

Actually, I think it could go both ways. Somebody who has grown up in a homogeneous culture may also never have encountered the negative stereotypes about certain demographics and may not have developed the same bias. 

Unconscious bias is often a product of being immersed in a culture that is biased and constantly reinforcing stereotypes; a person from outside this culture may be completely unaware that he should be thinking about certain races a certain way. Does that make sense?

[maize]

OK. Do me a solid, and ask one of your African-American friends if they agree.

Huh?

 

One of my dad's Nigerian friends named his son after my dad. Is that sufficient endorsement for you?

 

I'm aware of public schools with huge problems of racism among the students in spite of all the kids being thrown together for years and years. I just don't think it is exposure that is the critical component in kids growing up with an understanding that every human being is deserving of human dignity and respect.

[idnib]

But hey, there are people of color on the forum, I'd love to hear what they think about this.

 

 

I would not be offended if someone approached me because of my cultural background because they were interested in some aspect of that culture: lifestyle, food, religion, clothing, language, etc. ("Can you teach me how to make this dish?" "Can I practice conversation in your language with you?")

 

I would be offended if a mother tried to set up a false situation for her child to spend time with me based on the color of my skin. It would feel like I was a checkbox item, although I would sympathize with the child.

Edited October 17, 2016 by idnib

[CaffeineDiary]

Actually, I think it could go both ways. Somebody who has grown up in a homogeneous culture may also never have encountered the negative stereotypes about certain demographics and may not have developed the same bias. 

Unconscious bias is often a product of being immersed in a culture that is biased and constantly reinforcing stereotypes; a person from outside this culture may be completely unaware that he should be thinking about certain races a certain way. Does that make sense?

 

Sure, and I will happily grant you that this is a hypothetical outcome for some person in a culture that is homogeneous, insulated from the wider world of media, and isn't living in a country whose very existence was only possible because of the plunder of black lives and legally-mandated white supremacy.

 

For anyone growing up in the United States, that hypothetical is inoperative, and avoiding unconscious bias is likely impossible.

Edited October 17, 2016 by CaffeineDiary

[poppy]

In my town the conservative Christian many white families do homeschool (Baptist mostly) and that is not true of conservative Christian black families here.  I am sure this is a political stance.

 

But the secular coop is fairly diverse.

[Guest]

My dad...was raised in a very small, insular, 100% white farming community. Most of the people in town were related to him.

 

He went on to a career in which he lived in eight different countries, travelled to many more, and regularly interacted with people of all races, ethnicities, and nationalities.

 

I'm really not buying the idea that our kids will be profoundly handicapped if they don't get to interact with a hugely diverse group of people in their youth.

We have noted this as well.

 

I'm just musing - in my experience, the difference isn't in exposure, but in the philosophy of approaching each person as an individual with their own history, experiences, skills, and culture. Not pidgeonholing, stereotyping, or actively avoiding those who are different than you. Any person of capable of cliquish and prejudiced behavior, and overcoming it seems to more be an issue of priorities and character than any specific set of experiences.

 

Being forced into a highly diverse public school didn't somehow eliminate slurs, violence, cliques, and prejudice - I experienced all of these as a white student and watched other of different backgrounds and ethnicity experience the same. These things come from the attitudes and heart, not the cultural exposure. What value is exposure or forced interaction to someone who still thinks they're inherently better or more suited to a homogenous group they've self selected?

Edited October 17, 2016 by Arctic Mama

[regentrude]

Sure, and I will happily grant you that this is a hypothetical outcome for some person in a culture that is homogeneous, insulated from the wider world of media, and isn't living in a country whose very existence was only possible because of the plunder of black lives and legally-mandated white supremacy.

For anyone growing up in the United States, that hypothetical is inoperative, and avoiding unconscious bias is likely impossible.

 

But you claimed previously 

 

 I would assert that someone who has not been personally exposed to people of diverse cultural and ethnic backgrounds, and had the chance to work together with them one on one and to develop the skills to relate to and get along with them, is someone who is completely unprepared for almost any professional career.

 

These are different statements. And the hypothetical scenario is absolutely not hypothetical for many immigrants, and they manage just fine. 

 

According to your logic, we should see the smallest degree of racism in areas with the largest interaction between people of different races. I can see no indication that this is actually the case.

Edited October 17, 2016 by regentrude

[MEmama]

Actually, I think it could go both ways. Somebody who has grown up in a homogeneous culture may also never have encountered the negative stereotypes about certain demographics and may not have developed the same bias.

Unconscious bias is often a product of being immersed in a culture that is biased and constantly reinforcing stereotypes; a person from outside this culture may be completely unaware that he should be thinking about certain races a certain way. Does that make sense?

I agree with this. I grew up in such an environment, and my husband still has to explain certain stereotypes to me (when they come up, not that he shares) because I'd never heard them before. I was in no way sheltered, but our community just wasn't diverse. My DS is growing up in a similar manner. But innocence or lack of exposure is NOT the same thing as ignorance and shouldn't be treated the same. Implying a person is hopelessly unprepared for the "real world" without having grown up in a racially diverse community is rather small minded.

[maize]

CaffeineDiary, I don't see anyone in this thread arguing that racism doesn't exist or is not an issue we should take seriously in raising our children. I fail to understand though your seeming attitude that exposure is the best and only way to combat it.

 

I wonder...at what age do you think exposure to a particular group is necessary in order for an individual to gain the capacity to interact with that group? If a child has not met an African American by age six will they be incapable of interacting with someone from that group at age eight? If they have never encountered a Latino before age sixteen are they doomed to living a life of bias against Latinos? If they don't interact with Chinese people up until age 25 is it forever too late to be able to relate?

Edited October 17, 2016 by maize

[idnib]

But you claimed previously 

 

 

The hypothetical scenario is absolutely not hypothetical for many immigrants, and they manage just fine.

 

This is a very important point. My parents came to this country ~50 years ago and eventually lived in a small town in the same state you live in, and they managed to get along with people just fine. They spent at least a decade without seeing anyone else from their own (extremely homogenous) country, but somehow they managed to get along with others. They made lifelong friends, received advanced degrees, and went on to have successful careers.

[MEmama]

I get that you feel like this is attacking your kid somehow, and I promise you I'm not doing that. But if you can try to not take this personally for a minute: wouldn't you agree that someone who has never met a person from another culture just might be more likely to experience unconscious or implicit bias? (And just to be crystal clear, I'm not saying 'people who hang out with people of color aren't biased, people who don't are!' We all have implicit biases to a greater or lesser extent.)

I don't take it as an attack. I do take it as an opinion that I do not share.

[regentrude]

I wonder...at what age do you think exposure to a particular group is necessary in order for an individual to gain the capacity to interact with that group? If a child has not met an African American by age six will they be incapable of interacting with someone from that group at age eight? Of they have never encountered a Latino before age sixteen are they doomed to living a life of bias against Latinos? If they don't interact with Chinese people up until age 25 is it forever too late to be able to relate?

 

Half my colleagues are immigrants from different countries who came to the US as adults after finishing their education and have not interacted with African Americans or Hispanics in their home countries. I find that they are much more open towards other cultures and not as racist as many people who have grown up in this country and have been encountering people of different races throughout their lives. Thus, I cannot see any indication that exposure is a cure for racism.

Edited October 17, 2016 by regentrude

[Farrar]

I think the language "completely unprepared" is probably too extreme, but saying that someone who has almost no experience interacting with people who aren't from their own background puts them at a disadvantage in most modern American workplaces is so true. And interacting with people who are different does take practice and awareness.

 

I don't think anyone needs to be rude or invasive or to seek out people who simply don't live around you. But most Americans live in urban or suburban areas, which means that while your individual corner may be more homogeneous, there's probably a wider community around you. People asked for specifics things... I think it takes effort and making that one of the things you look for in social opportunities. So, just like you're looking for a kids sports league that, say, has nice coaches and cheap uniforms, you make "and has kids from a variety of backgrounds" one of those type of priorities. You make that one of the things you're looking for in a church, in a volunteer group, a co-op, a book club, a neighborhood. And sometimes you don't get it - you're not moving to a neighborhood because it has non-white people, but you're saying to yourself, this is a bonus - it will help me decide between two options or even that you'll choose it over another place because you decide to weight that, just like you would for, say, a large yard. And you also (and this is a struggle for me) make yourself willing to be uncomfortable by joining in activities where you and your kids are in the minority. And you make an extra effort to be more friendly and welcoming to the families around you who aren't in the majority just because you know that's hard to be different - whether it's religion, parenting style, family size, etc. or race.

 

And will it always work out? No. But simply saying, I can teach my kids to be "nice" and "kind" to "everyone" is something that doesn't work. (Always worth rereading the Nurtureshock race chapter) It takes explicit teaching and it takes experiences. And recognizing that most homeschooled kids are at a disadvantage when it comes to racial awareness is the first step to embracing that explicit teaching. And it's okay... I do think it can be done, even in homogeneous communities. I'm not saying that. You work with the community you've got. But if you live in a mostly-white small town or city then recognizing that your town represents "America" less and less is probably pretty important to helping your kids understand the world they live in.

Edited October 17, 2016 by Farrar

[SKL]

I get that you feel like this is attacking your kid somehow, and I promise you I'm not doing that.  But if you can try to not take this personally for a minute: wouldn't you agree that someone who has never met a person from another culture just might be more likely to experience unconscious or implicit bias?  (And just to be crystal clear, I'm not saying 'people who hang out with people of color aren't biased, people who don't are!'  We all have implicit biases to a greater or lesser extent.)

 

Racism happens to be highest, statistically, in the most racially diverse parts of the USA.

 

While I have made a conscious effort to give my kids access to many multicultural experiences, and the majority of my household is nonwhite, I have to agree with those who say you're barking up the wrong tree.

[Farrar]

Half my colleagues are immigrants from different countries who came to the US as adults after finishing their education and have not interacted with African Americans or Hispanics in their home countries. I find that they are much more open towards other cultures and not as racist as many people who have grown up in this country and have been encountering people of different races throughout their lives. Thus, I cannot see any indication that exposure is a cure for racism.

 

I would argue that most Americans were indoctrinated into racism and segregation as part of their exposure though - changing that is key. And I've seen a lot of racism from some immigrant communities. The people I know who are best at operating across a wide group of heterogeneous friends mostly went to diverse public schools where inter-school segregation through tracking wasn't firm. And, yeah, that's anecdotal too.

[Spy Car]

I am very tired, but I'm confused by this breakdown. 

 

edited...ok I think I get it...do you mean 97 of people are of one race and not of mixed race?

 

No, it means 97% are of the human race, with the remaining mutants/space-aliens/other :D

 

Bill

[maize]

No, it means 97% are of the human race, with the remaining mutants/space-aliens/other :D

 

Bill

I sometimes think I belong to the 3%...

[Spy Car]

The elephant in the room of the homeschooling movement was that the "pioneers" of the 1970s were largely driven to pull their children out of public schools as a reaction to forced integration (busing).  While often cloaked behind conservative religious ideological motivation (or hippydom) the unspoken motivator is white parents not wanting to send their child to school with black children.

 

Let's not kid ourselves about the history of the 1970s.

 

Bill

Edited October 17, 2016 by Spy Car

[maize]

The elephant in the room of the homeschooling movement was that the "pioneers" of the 1970s were largely driven to pull their children out of public schools as a reaction to forced integration (busing). While often cloaked behind conservative religious ideological motivation (of hippydom) the unspoken motivator is white parents not wanting to send their child to school with black children.

 

Let's not kid ourselves about the history of the 1970s.

 

Bill

That may have been true in the 1970's and therefore could still have some trickle down effect today; the modern homeschool community though is immensely diverse in motivation and philosophy.

 

Homeschooling pioneers in my current state were active in the 80's, and neither school integration (the entire state was pretty homogenous at the time) nor religion were significant factors for those I am aware of.

[Farrar]

The elephant in the room of the homeschooling movement was that the "pioneers" of the 1970s were largely driven to pull their children out of public schools as a reaction to forced integration (busing).  While often cloaked behind conservative religious ideological motivation (of hippydom) the unspoken motivator is white parents not wanting to send their child to school with black children.

 

Let's not kid ourselves about the history of the 1970s.

 

Bill

 

Exactly. "The schools are slipping" was often coded language for "the schools now have black kids."

 

And thus you get the racism in many homeschool programs... ABeka, ACES, even Sonlight... 

[Spy Car]

That may have been true in the 1970's and therefore could still have some trickle down effect today; the modern homeschool community though is immensely diverse in motivation and philosophy.

 

Homeschooling pioneers in my current state were active in the 80's, and neither school integration (the entire state was pretty homogenous at the time) nor religion were significant factors for those I am aware of.

 

 

Things change. Those who have been on this forum for 10 years can tell you just how much this community has evolved. with many participants none too happy (and gone as a result).

 

And to be fair, I knew plenty of liberal families who sent their kids to "instant" progressive schools in the same time frame. It just wasn't a coincidence timing-wise.

 

Another codeword of the era was about not sending children to school with people who "didn't share the same values." Everyone knew what that meant. Many of the exclusivist elements that remain harken back those days. 

 

Better to be real about the past as a part of making a better future than to pretend race and integration weren't a formative motivators in the 1970s "pioneering" movement.

 

Bill

[maize]

I get what you are saying. We definitely live where we live because we weighted diversity - not to allow our kids to succeed in life (!!) but so that they were in an area where they see other people like them (mixed race) everyday.

 

The other side of this is that we've been scolded for not going to live where there is limited diversity, to 'add to the mix'. Yeah, not gonna happen.

 

Pro tip if you live in a non-diverse community. When the black guy comes to town, don't stare.

 

It's a complicated issue. Whilst individuals of good will can always make some difference, I think it's important to remember that seeking out diversity for your kids is different to seeking out diversity because you, personally, value it. And to interrogate the reason you value it...and make sure that the diverse are not being used, overtly or subtly, as a self improvement program.

I agree.

 

I seek out diversity because I think life is richer that way.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Lack of diversity in homeschooling is a social problem, and probably has a multitude of roots.

 

It isn't cured by telling individuals to 'go out and mix with the diverse.'

 

I really don't like the way so many social issues are seemingly resolved by making them an individual's issues.

 

And the diverse are not a group to be incorporated into white success. They, in this context, are individuals to be known on that basis. 

 

Although as a homeschooler I'm not really part of a group.  We get out into the "regular" world and do a variety of things with a variety of people.  Admittedly a lot of what we do involves groups of people that aren't very diverse.  Part of that is just lack of opportunities for us as homeschoolers.  The schools here are very diverse, but they don't allow homeschoolers to participate.  So I am forced to pay for whatever it is my kids want to get involved with and that automatically ensures that only those who can afford those activities are in them.  So that there excludes various people. 

 

But what I do find baffling is when we go to free community events there still isn't a diversity that reflects what the population looks like in the city.  I really don't know why.  What are the sorts of things people of races other than my own doing?  Maybe they aren't interested in community events. 

 

My street is very diverse, but neighbors barely talk to each other. That's typical of the type of area I live in. 

[poppy]

The elephant in the room of the homeschooling movement was that the "pioneers" of the 1970s were largely driven to pull their children out of public schools as a reaction to forced integration (busing).  While often cloaked behind conservative religious ideological motivation (of hippydom) the unspoken motivator is white parents not wanting to send their child to school with black children.

 

Let's not kid ourselves about the history of the 1970s.

 

Bill

 

I'd argue the current homeschooling subculture that despises "government schools" and wants to take the federal government out of education is the modern version of that, or at least, is of the same cloth. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

Perhaps because we have never been part of co-ops and the like, but I do not identify with a "homeschool culture" and neither do my kids.  We identify with our local culture - which is diverse. 

[DawnM]

Mostly white, but I can think of about 15 HS families off the top of my head who are non-white.

 

Japanese, Chinese, Indian, Black, Latino......really a mix, but the majority is still white.

[Guest]

The elephant in the room of the homeschooling movement was that the "pioneers" of the 1970s were largely driven to pull their children out of public schools as a reaction to forced integration (busing). While often cloaked behind conservative religious ideological motivation (of hippydom) the unspoken motivator is white parents not wanting to send their child to school with black children.

 

Let's not kid ourselves about the history of the 1970s.

 

Bill

I even hear this now with the whole gender-in-the-bathroom kerfuffle. Three different people have announced to me something like, "If my kids we little/if I had kids, I would be pulling them out of school to homeschool them...did you hear about Obama saying no school can prevent a child from using a bathroom of thier 'preferred' gender?!?"

[MedicMom]

My children do go to public school. There are 1,500 students.

8 of them are African American, all adopted.

 

Not only is there no non-Caucasians in my son's class, there are none in his entire grade. My daughter does have a classmate of a different race, but I honestly doubt she's even noticed.

 

I think it is all very much location based. My cousin is a public school teacher just one county away. 65% of her second grade class is AA.

Edited October 17, 2016 by MedicMom

[goldberry]

What I hear Caffeine saying is that it is good for kids to be exposed to diversity, so if you see an opportunity to do so, you should take it if possible. As a person in an un-diverse area, if I see an opportunity, I take it.  I wish we were in a more diverse area.

 

I think you guys are over analyzing what she is saying.  

[SKL]

Well if she's saying "avoiding people of color isn't good for your kids," I would agree, but she made some pretty strong statements to the effect that our kids would basically fail at life if they didn't have "enough" multiracial exposure now.  The evidence doesn't support that at all.

 

I'm curious as to her own experience as a kid with diversity and how she thinks it impacts her success as an adult.

[maize]

What I hear Caffeine saying is that it is good for kids to be exposed to diversity, so if you see an opportunity to do so, you should take it if possible. As a person in an un-diverse area, if I see an opportunity, I take it.  I wish we were in a more diverse area.

 

I think you guys are over analyzing what she is saying.

 

She made some rather strong assertions that are not supported by the experience of many of us, nor by any social science research that I am aware of.

 

 

 As someone who has worked for many years in several industries, I would assert that someone who has not been personally exposed to people of diverse cultural and ethnic backgrounds, and had the chance to work together with them one on one and to develop the skills to relate to and get along with them, is someone who is completely unprepared for almost any professional career.  Dropping a white kid who has virtually never had a serious conversation with an African-American or Hispanic person off at college and saying "OK, good luck with the real world!" strikes me as unconscionable.

  

 

These assertions go well beyond "exposing your kids to diversity is good for them." I would classify it as the same kind of hyperbole you might hear in certain homeschool circles about how sending your kids to the public schools guarantees they will never achieve their potential because of the lack of individualized education and any caring responsible parent would not consider anything but homeschool.

 

"A" is good does not equate to lack of "A" guaranteeing failure in life.

[Guest]

And yes I agree that avoiding interactions with people who are different than you is bad juju - but that doesn't mean the opposite extreme makes sense either.

 

This is one of the reasons I chose a secular co op (love those ladies, it's a really great group!) and prefer our new church - there is more variety than in the religious co ops and our smaller, more homogenous old church. It wasn't a defining criteria but it weighed in their favor nonetheless. Again, SES is still fairly similar, though both tend to be a little wealthier on average than we are, but it's not like everyone is a carbon copy of us in thinking, teaching, or family culture and ethnicity either.

[Shellydon]

Currently where we live is equally Hispanic and white.

[rose]

Can someone please fill me in? What is SES?

 

My thought is that children are prepared for diversity not necessarily through exposure to other race but through exposure to people of various backgrounds and values. I know some families that are very insular (Amish and Old Order Mennonites - think of the fruit of a completely R&S or Pathway education!). They are lovely people but some of them do struggle to realise how diverse the world really is. They sort-of see the world as those "like us" and the rest of the world.

 

I also think that with enough exposure to diversity of all time children begins to realise the ways in which humanity is all the same. We all desire to be loved; we all waffle between pride and insecurity; we all grieve; we all have a conscience; we all fear death to some extent, we all (well, almost all) have sexual desire, etc. I think that adolescence is really a time for developing an understanding about psychology and humanity. Even National Geographics magazines in the home can help. When you start to realise that the pygmy tribes in the Congo are human just like you and not weird animal like people then the black co-worker at the water cooler doesn't make you flinch. Any exposure to different culture, whether that race based or just a different sub-group of your race, helps you along the way to this kind of maturity.

[Guest]

SES is socio-economic status, or a fancy way of saying how someone loves/where they fall in the societal stratum/how much money they make.

[shinyhappypeople]

Not going to read this whole thread (but read and skimmed the first couple of pages).

 

We live in a racially diverse community (mostly Hispanic, white, SE Asian, with a decent number of east Indian and black people).  Our homeschool group is mostly white and Hispanic (reflective of our community).   Ethnically my kids are mixtures of white (me) and tan (DH). 

 

One of the enormous benefits of homeschooling is that my kids do not experience sorting people by ethnicity such as the self-sorting that happens in traditional schools here. 

 

I'll never forget how, a fear years ago, I had to explain to one of my daughters about the Civil Rights movement and how an adult she admires would have been treated poorly and unfairly because she has very dark brown skin.  DD could not wrap her brain around WHY this would be so.  

 

 

[LucyStoner]

I do know a number of non-white homeschooling families.  That said, it is clear that the local homeschooling community is overall a whiter group than the local public schools.  

 

I do choose to drive a longer distance in the direction that gets me to homeschooling groups and activities that are more socioeconomically diverse than to drive a shorter distance the other direction where a non-white or not upper middle class participant seems exceedingly rare.  Part of that decision is that's where our existing friends were, even before homeschooling and part was motivated by my concern that taking my son out of school would pull him into a little bubble.  Or more of a bubble than we already live in.  My sons are white kids who have never experienced poverty with college educated parents in an extended family group that has a fair amount of poverty and which is interracial. I have a cross class relationship with my husband and my children, who just do not and can not "get" poverty the way someone who has lived it has to get it. It was important to me to not surround them exclusively with kids who all came from relative affluence -or- who are all white.  The people we see on a regular basis are all up and down the economic ladder and of a number of different racial and ethnic backgrounds.  

 

I don't do this "to expose my kids to diversity".  Kids who are poorer than them do not exist as object lessons for my sons.  Nor do black, asian, hispanic or any other children exist so my sons can "experience diversity". I do this so that their schooling related social connections best mirrors the community around them and because I am most comfortable with my friends there.  I don't feel as comfortable in the groups the opposite direction that we drive. 

 

Also, I prefer a group where no one recoils or flips if, in the course of casual conversation my sons mention their (married to each other) uncles or whatever.  I was once told that my 6 year old son "should know not to mention that" in front of other kids and I was like "um, yeah, buh bye."  I'm not going to teach my sons that they need to keep secrets about public information about their family.  It's not like any other kid would be in hot water for mentioning, as my son did, that they went camping with their aunt and uncle and cousins.  Only my son said Uncle Y and Uncle Z and their kids, blah and zah.  As it happens, I am more likely to get the attitude in the all white nearly all affluent groups. 

Edited October 18, 2016 by LucyStoner

[LucyStoner]

I once organized field trips to a series of puppet shows.  The theater charged like $8 for school day shows and offered a reduced rate for people who were low income.  It was $4 with a loose, honor system cut off the federal limits for reduced lunch.  I got a long email about how this wasn't ok to have "everyone" subsidize "those families".  However, the puppet theater has the right to set their rates as they see fit and they offer a discount to low income families that I was passing the deets on for.  It's not like I was using part of her ticket money towards the less expensive tickets.  I was like, perhaps you would like to arrange for your own puppet theater field trip.  You just can't reason with people who think like that.  

[Carrie12345]

I would assert that someone who has not been personally exposed to people of diverse cultural and ethnic backgrounds, and had the chance to work together with them one on one and to develop the skills to relate to and get along with them, is someone who is completely unprepared for almost any professional career.  Dropping a white kid who has virtually never had a serious conversation with an African-American or Hispanic person off at college and saying "OK, good luck with the real world!" strikes me as unconscionable.

 

I do not have a professional career, but I do reject your theory.

 

I grew up in an almost entirely white suburb.  I can go through my head and remember every individual not-white student in my high school for the entire time I was there, so that would be 7 grade levels in 4 years. Maybe 1300 total students.  While we were in some classes together, I didn't have much, if any, direct interaction with them beyond "Hi", or "Congrats", or "Can I borrow a pencil?" like I did with the vast majority of my school mates beyond my small core group.

 

I went off to college, lived in 2 white-minority cities, a fairly diverse suburb, and now a white-minority semi-rural area.   I moved to each place with the basic human skill called respect and found myself relating and getting along just fine in neighborhoods, in schools, on committees, in homeschool groups...  Not sure why it might be different in paid work, or which of my "skills" might be underdeveloped.

[poppy]

I do not have a professional career, but I do reject your theory.

 

I grew up in an almost entirely white suburb.  I can go through my head and remember every individual not-white student in my high school for the entire time I was there, so that would be 7 grade levels in 4 years. Maybe 1300 total students.  While we were in some classes together, I didn't have much, if any, direct interaction with them beyond "Hi", or "Congrats", or "Can I borrow a pencil?" like I did with the vast majority of my school mates beyond my small core group.

 

I went off to college, lived in 2 white-minority cities, a fairly diverse suburb, and now a white-minority semi-rural area.   I moved to each place with the basic human skill called respect and found myself relating and getting along just fine in neighborhoods, in schools, on committees, in homeschool groups...  Not sure why it might be different in paid work, or which of my "skills" might be underdeveloped.

 

I think college is an fine time to be introduced to a less homogenous world, if you are white.  From Facebook I can see a pretty obvious "success gap" (professionally) from people who went to regular college vs those who went to hometown community colleges that are not diverse.

I do suppose being someone "intro to different" sure must not be fun for some of the non-white kids just headed off to college themselves.

[Rosie_0801]

What are the sorts of things people of races other than my own doing?  Maybe they aren't interested in community events. 

 

Maybe they are at their cousin's houses. One of my Lebanese friends seems to have so many cousins, a get together practically is a community event!

[regentrude]

  From Facebook I can see a pretty obvious "success gap" (professionally) from people who went to regular college vs those who went to hometown community colleges that are not diverse.

 

I can think of a large number of reasons why these two groups of students would have different levels of professional success. Pinning in on the college's diversity level would not have occurred to me - socioeconomic factors (finances, first generation), aptitude, and connections seem to me by far the more relevant ones.