Race and Homeschooling Culture

[Farrar]

This conversation so far has mostly been about who homeschools and our experience of homeschool community. I can say that mine is mostly white. There is a large group of Black homeschoolers in my city and its environs - they have a co-op. The various mostly white groups (with some international, some mixed race, some Black, and some Latino families, but mostly white) and the black group don't have a huge amount of overlap, sadly. My understanding of the scanty statistics is that homeschooling is mostly white. But that homeschooling among non-white groups is growing. But so is homeschooling across the board. There were a number of articles about a year ago (maybe three all within a few months?) about the rise of African-American homeschooling.

 

But, this immediately made me think of this article I read today. Like some people who homeschool to keep kids from meeting many people outside their religious community, there are also some homeschoolers who homeschool to keep kids from meeting anyone outside their race:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/the-white-flight-of-derek-black/2016/10/15/ed5f906a-8f3b-11e6-a6a3-d50061aa9fae_story.html

This was a fascinating read about the racial politics of the current election... but it's focused on one individual story about a young man who was homeschooled in large part for racist reasons - probably too political for a full conversation on this forum (so please don't try to go there), but just as an illustration of this particular connection between homeschooling and race. It's one that's been tackled on HA a couple of times as well so his story is not totally unique in that sense.

 

And one thread of homeschooling started when schools were integrated throughout the 60s and 70's. It's hard to even tease apart all the language about the decline of quality in the public schools that was fueling homeschooling among some families because some of it was just true and some of it was code for "there are now non-white kids in my kid's class."

 

There's also the heavy racism of a lot of homeschool curricula (mostly not stuff popular on this board, but it's out there) - stuff that's borderline or outright slavery apologist stuff, providential history stuff, anti-Catholic stuff, anti-Jewish stuff, anti-Muslim stuff... I feel like having a conversation about race and homeschooling that doesn't mention that isn't a full picture.

[Farrar]

You know, I know homeschoolers like to pooh-pooh the mission of public schools, and I wouldn't argue that public schools as a whole are really fulfilling this mission (see, The Problem We All Live With) but one of the things public schools could potentially be doing for us as a society is bringing together diverse groups of kids and helping us all learn to live with each other better and helping us even the playing field for all kids. And that's something homeschooling can basically never do. It's also going to be a self-selected group. And that's great in some ways - you get to parent with other parents who have a similar worldview (and I mean that in the least coded way possible). For us, I really appreciate that my kids are around other kids whose families value kindness, value gender non-conformity, value children as individuals, value positive discipline, etc. etc. I feel like it's helped my kids experience less bullying and stronger friendships over time. Intentional communities are a good thing in many ways.

 

But it's also sad for me because my kids' social group is decidedly not reflective of the population of our neighborhood at all. So that's tough. It sends a certain message to them that I don't like. And it robs them of that opportunity to have some of the experiences getting to know kids in a more random grouping. Because I think that's actually valuable stuff - the world isn't full of people like us and we have to learn to live together. That means diversity of ideas, religions, classes, etc etc. and, of course, races.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Not everyone who homeschools is involved in homeschool groups. 

[Sharon77]

My husband and I are both Asian- American. I don't want to say specific nationality due to privacy. There are so few Asian hsers, I feel like if I say which country I am from and just give a few broad details about myself, I feel like I will know someone on these boards!!

 

Our parents both migrated to the US about the same time, we were about 5-6. So we both grew up here and have completely assimilated into our country.

 

Asians do not hs because they think it is an inferior education. Our parents went through so much to come to this country for the education, why would they turn their back on it now?

 

Trust me, if these Asian parents personally knew homeschooled kids who got into the ivy league, they would be doing it in droves. 

 

But I don't blame them. When I first heard about hsing, I read about families who got their kids into elite schools, but after being in the hs community for years, I have still not met one hs kid in person who went to a elite school. Most hsers I know go to community college, small state schools or don't go to college at all. These choices would be horrifying to the average Asian parent. 

[Guest]

We have a really diverse homeschooling culture up here in terms of melanin, but the overwhelming majority are still in the same SES. We are an easy state to home educate in, military and immigrant heavy, and it's popular and a fairly common education choice, so I think that lends to some diversity, but we are still primarily Judeo-Christian, middle class, single income nuclear families - but more ethnically diverse inside those criteria than I've seen elsewhere.

[....]

My husband and I are both Asian- American. I don't want to say specific nationality due to privacy. There are so few Asian hsers, I feel like if I say which country I am from and just give a few broad details about myself, I feel like I will know someone on these boards!!

 

Our parents both migrated to the US about the same time, we were about 5-6. So we both grew up here and have completely assimilated into our country.

 

Asians do not hs because they think it is an inferior education. Our parents went through so much to come to this country for the education, why would they turn their back on it now?

 

Trust me, if these Asian parents personally knew homeschooled kids who got into the ivy league, they would be doing it in droves. 

 

But I don't blame them. When I first heard about hsing, I read about families who got their kids into elite schools, but after being in the hs community for years, I have still not met one hs kid in person who went to a elite school. Most hsers I know go to community college, small state schools or don't go to college at all. These choices would be horrifying to the average Asian parent. 

 

:iagree:   Our family is Korean.  My in-laws are...let me try to find the right word for it... :001_unsure: ...appalled, terrified, suspicious, white-knuckled holding onto the edge of their seat...that we homeschool.   :D   They actually have all kinds of bizarre misconceptions about what homeschooling is.  Some of them thought a teacher from the school came to our house every day to work with my kids.  (LOL)  They also thought the school district sends us all their school books and "checks up on them" or "tests them".  

 

They've definitely gotten more nervous now that I have teens.  "When are you going to put them in high school?" came up a number of times.  And we actually plan to start ours at a high-quality community college, because I can pay cash for it.  My husband and his family (well, and my family, too) have monstrous (and I mean MONSTROUS) student loans and I do not want that for my kids.  We are going to do this with very minimal debt (if it kills me)!  They will all see community college as a failure - a product of the kids' homeschooling - even though that's our intention.

 

Another thing - my kids are very learning-oriented.  They would be great unschoolers.  For example, my oldest scored in the top 1 percentile in testing.  She actually was invited to a school board meeting and got her picture in the paper.  They can not comprehend why I wouldn't want to leave Smarty Pants in school so she could get recognition for her achievements at school.  Because she homeschools, no one knows about her abilities or whatever (trying to find a non-weird/PC way to word that).

[gstharr]

I thought the homeschool movement started with southern and middle class whites finding out the so-call christian schools they spawned, with restricted admissions, were no better than the integrated schools they were fleeing. Then privileged whites joined in because their privileges and educational backgrounds allowed them

[Carrie12345]

Our area homeschool groups have some diversity, but nowhere near the make up of our public schools.

My district is 48 or 49% white. I'd put our homeschool communities in the 90s. High 80s at the very best.

[lynn]

Yes, we have several non white homeschooling families in our cover school and I know many others in our community. I had an African-American neighbor ask if there were black families who homeschool. I was a little surprised it was even a question.

[MyLittleBears]

This conversation so far has mostly been about who homeschools and our experience of homeschool community. I can say that mine is mostly white. There is a large group of Black homeschoolers in my city and its environs - they have a co-op. The various mostly white groups (with some international, some mixed race, some Black, and some Latino families, but mostly white) and the black group don't have a huge amount of overlap, sadly. My understanding of the scanty statistics is that homeschooling is mostly white. But that homeschooling among non-white groups is growing. But so is homeschooling across the board. There were a number of articles about a year ago (maybe three all within a few months?) about the rise of African-American homeschooling.

 

But, this immediately made me think of this article I read today. Like some people who homeschool to keep kids from meeting many people outside their religious community, there are also some homeschoolers who homeschool to keep kids from meeting anyone outside their race:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/the-white-flight-of-derek-black/2016/10/15/ed5f906a-8f3b-11e6-a6a3-d50061aa9fae_story.html

This was a fascinating read about the racial politics of the current election... but it's focused on one individual story about a young man who was homeschooled in large part for racist reasons - probably too political for a full conversation on this forum (so please don't try to go there), but just as an illustration of this particular connection between homeschooling and race. It's one that's been tackled on HA a couple of times as well so his story is not totally unique in that sense.

 

And one thread of homeschooling started when schools were integrated throughout the 60s and 70's. It's hard to even tease apart all the language about the decline of quality in the public schools that was fueling homeschooling among some families because some of it was just true and some of it was code for "there are now non-white kids in my kid's class."

 

There's also the heavy racism of a lot of homeschool curricula (mostly not stuff popular on this board, but it's out there) - stuff that's borderline or outright slavery apologist stuff, providential history stuff, anti-Catholic stuff, anti-Jewish stuff, anti-Muslim stuff... I feel like having a conversation about race and homeschooling that doesn't mention that isn't a full picture.

 

 

It is a shame about this particular young man, but I am Hispanic and this is not the reason we homeschool. In fact, our community has very few homeschoolers and most of the Hispanic kids go to public school. It is VERY welcoming to Hispanics. Our community is predominately white and I honestly feel it is more welcoming to Hispanics than our previous community were there was a more diverse mix. It really does depend on the community. Also I think part of the homeschool demographic probably depends on the fact that minorities are that exactly, minorities in terms of amounts. Fewer people means fewer represented.

[Bluegoat]

Around here I would say yes, there are strong ethnic, racial, and cultural tendencies in the homeschooling community.  I would not say the community was catering to some and not others - it reflects the people who are choosing to homeschool, and for various reasons ethnic and racial minorities aren't as often making that choice.

 

Here, the majority of homeschoolers in the past were hippy unschoolers, who tended to be white and middle class.  A second group of American influences CHristian evangelicals is an active though not the largest group, they are big organizers in a way that unschoolers are not.  THey also are almost entirely white and middle class, though less well off than the hippies.  More recently there are more people homeschooling essentially for educational reasons, they tend to be people who are in a position to have a parent at home.

 

There are I would say a few reasons.  In some of the low income communities, there is a strong correlation to the possibility of having a parent at home.  And in some of the ethnic communities, even the well-off, there seems to be a much greater focus on social institutions - we don't see many Asian homeschoolers and I suspect one reason is that community, when they are within the first few generations of arriving here, tends to see institutional schooling as important.  Another reason for newer Canadians is they may be less comfortable navigating regulations and such.

 

The black community in particular I think has a different thing going on - they are a long-standing ethnic group here so they aren't dealing with any of those issues.  There is an economic factor there that overlaps, as in the demographics of the black community skews a little lower than the community as a whole.  But I think there is actually a significant enculturation issue - that community is one that is very internally coherent - they have lived here a long time and have their own community institutions and such that make them a group that can and does work together.  And there has for a long time been a focus on their own access to government and other institutions.  So, parents in that community that are interested in education are much less likely to drop out of the system than get involved with it - join the home and school group, volunteer, run for African-Canadian school board positions, and that sort of thing.

 

And TBH they are generally pretty effective in doing so at getting things done.  So far though the focus hasn't tended to be on content or structure  in the sense that people at WTM might consider really important, and that doesn't seem to be a big area of discussion either - they are more focused on how they see the system failing their kids in other ways.

[MinivanMom]

I think our homeschooling community (urban, educated area) is pretty reflective of the local middle to upper-middle class community. Most families are white, but there are also a lot of Asian and Indian families, a fair amount of families from a Middle Eastern background (most, but not all of whom are Muslim), and a few Hispanic families. 

 

There are fewer black families than would be expected based on the size of our local black middle class. I assume that's cultural. I know it's highly anecdotal, but my personal friends are all working moms who are very focused on school-based educational achievement for their kids. They are supportive of the fact that I homeschool, but I always get the vibe that they consider it a quirky, white SAHM-thing and would never consider it themselves. We do talk more about education in general and about specific programs (Duke TIP & other local opportunities) than I ever would with any of my white friends. They are passionate about education, but they want their kids to succeed along the traditional path. 

 

And, now that I really think about it, our homeschool community is really more diverse at the elementary to middle school level. I'm not sure I know any families of color who have homeschooled through high school. White families tend to be the passionate, drunk-the-kool-aid type homeschoolers, while minority families are more likely to be homeschooling for a season or for a specific academic purpose before putting their kids back into the very best high schools.

 

Edited October 17, 2016 by MinivanMom

[Crimson Wife]

You know, I know homeschoolers like to pooh-pooh the mission of public schools, and I wouldn't argue that public schools as a whole are really fulfilling this mission (see, The Problem We All Live With) but one of the things public schools could potentially be doing for us as a society is bringing together diverse groups of kids and helping us all learn to live with each other better and helping us even the playing field for all kid

 

I don't see "social justice" as being part of the mission of public schools at all. Academics and preparing children for college and/or career should be the mission. Diversity is good, of course, but academics should not be sacrificed in order to achieve it. A big reason why there is no gifted & talented education at all and no honors courses prior to 11th in my district is the belief that separating students by academic ability is "racist" and "classist" because certain demographic groups are overrepresented and others underrepresented.

 

I don't care what race/ethnicity/SES my children's classmates are so long as the school is providing appropriately challenging coursework. And they're refusing to do that out of concern for "diversity" and "equity".

 

ETA: If there is an underrepresentation of certain groups in honors classes and GATE, I have no problem with special programs designed to "build the pipeline" by prepping promising kids from those groups and supporting them with tutoring, etc. once they are in honors courses.

Edited October 17, 2016 by Crimson Wife

[CaffeineDiary]

Instead of just trusting anecdotes, we could look at the (somewhat sparse) data that exists.

 

http://www.responsiblehomeschooling.org/homeschooling-101/homeschool-demographics/

 

 

 

Data released by the National Center for Education Statistics (NCES), like essentially every other study that has touched on homeschooling demographics, has consistently found that a higher than average percentage of homeschooled students are white.

 

I find the statement in an earlier post above that schools should only focus on academics to be strange.  As someone who has worked for many years in several industries, I would assert that someone who has not been personally exposed to people of diverse cultural and ethnic backgrounds, and had the chance to work together with them one on one and to develop the skills to relate to and get along with them, is someone who is completely unprepared for almost any professional career.  Dropping a white kid who has virtually never had a serious conversation with an African-American or Hispanic person off at college and saying "OK, good luck with the real world!" strikes me as unconscionable.

 

 

Edited October 17, 2016 by CaffeineDiary

[SparklyUnicorn]

Not everyone who homeschools is involved in homeschool groups. 

 

Yeah I no longer am.  I do keep up with what is announced locally of potential interest to homeschoolers, but rarely do we get together with homeschoolers anymore and we aren't regular members of any groups.  It seems as if the groups really fizzle by middle school/high school. 

[SparklyUnicorn]

Instead of just trusting anecdotes, we could look at the (somewhat sparse) data that exists.

 

http://www.responsiblehomeschooling.org/homeschooling-101/homeschool-demographics/

 

heavy emphasis on somewhat sparse so we might as well use anecdotes

 

Some states can't even be sure who homeschools or not because there are no reporting requirements.  I live in a high reg state and although they know I homeschool they don't know my race, income level, level of education, ethnicity, etc.  They never asked me.

Edited October 17, 2016 by SparklyUnicorn

[regentrude]

I don't see "social justice" as being part of the mission of public schools at all. Academics and preparing children for college and/or career should be the mission.

 

 

But it is one of the main purposes of public education the founding fathers, especially Thomas Jefferson, had in mind. The goal was to give all kids the chance at an education, not just those from educated/well off families who would have these opportunities at home. That is social justice at its very core.

[Moonhawk]

So, I haven't been a part of a homeschool group for the last 2 years, but I seem to run into a lot of homeschool families.  I know 2 black families, a couple Hispanic families, 1 Asian family.  I'd say 80% of the families we know are white.  At a homeschooling event at an aquarium we went to recently, I would say it was 70% white and then a good mix of other groups. I'm in Southern AZ. 

 

That being said, I'm mixed race (but my looks took after my Irish/German father and not my Mexican mom), and my husband is mixed race (a small minority European, but people assume he is full white or "maybe I can see Asian, yeah", despite being majority Cuban/Chinese/Jewish). If you didn't know our last name, you'd lump us into "white". 

 

All of this to say, just because someone looks white does not mean they are, so you may know more than you think, though perhaps not enough to change your overall percentages.

[pinkmint]

We live in a majority African American community.

 

I most definitely know non-white homeschoolers. Also we are white and homeschool, but are nowhere near what people consider financially comfortable.

 

I think it has a lot to do with where you live.

 

I think homeschool is getting more non-white every day too.

[Sneezyone]

I don't see "social justice" as being part of the mission of public schools at all. Academics and preparing children for college and/or career should be the mission. Diversity is good, of course, but academics should not be sacrificed in order to achieve it. A big reason why there is no gifted & talented education at all and no honors courses prior to 11th in my district is the belief that separating students by academic ability is "racist" and "classist" because certain demographic groups are overrepresented and others underrepresented.

 

I don't care what race/ethnicity/SES my children's classmates are so long as the school is providing appropriately challenging coursework. And they're refusing to do that out of concern for "diversity" and "equity".

 

ETA: If there is an underrepresentation of certain groups in honors classes and GATE, I have no problem with special programs designed to "build the pipeline" by prepping promising kids from those groups and supporting them with tutoring, etc. once they are in honors courses.

 

The primary reason my children came  home was the schools' inability to recognize and address the talents of my children. Neither are off the charts ( typically 85-95 for one and 90-99 for the other) but they are good kids and great students. The stereotype of black kids as mediocre, ill-prepared, poorly-behaved, underprivileged students is offensive whether it comes from administrators or fellow homeschoolers. This is why I avoid groups IRL.

Edited October 17, 2016 by Sneezyone

[Sharon77]

 I would assert that someone who has not been personally exposed to people of diverse cultural and ethnic backgrounds, and had the chance to work together with them one on one and to develop the skills to relate to and get along with them, is someone who is completely unprepared for almost any professional career.  Dropping a white kid who has virtually never had a serious conversation with an African-American or Hispanic person off at college and saying "OK, good luck with the real world!" strikes me as unconscionable.

 

YES! THIS!

 

I've hsed for 17 years, lived in three states, live in the Northeast near a major city, always been very active in the hs community but the ignorance that comes out of the parents mouths and therefore the kids is comical and astounding.....

 

I swear, it's like out of the 80's!!

 

1. Adoptive mom, who has two kids from my native country, asked why my skin was so much lighter than her kids?

 

2. Some parents still refer to me as Oriental

 

3. Just a couple weeks ago, a 16 year old (!!!!!!!!) asked my senior if he could actually see out of his eyes. FYI, my kids have large dish eyes.

 

4. Kids asking mine if we eat dogs.

 

5. And of course, the classic and common: turning nose up to any food we have. I even once packed cut-up hot dogs (with a ketchup pack) for my kid and another teen asked if it was Asian food. 

 

Honestly, I have thick skin and will sometimes correct if I care enough, but overall, as my kids say, most hs kids are an experience away from getting their butt kicked.

[Dmmetler]

Homeschool groups here seem to be homogeneous as far as SES and social beliefs, less so on race. The homeschool population as a whole is better off than the local PS population, less affluent than the private school population, and about as many came from the private schools as the public schools.

 

Since TNVA opened, there has been an increase in racial diversity at things like Homeschool days at the zoos and museums, and I do think that TNVA has been a Godsend to families who would have liked to homeschool, but found it financially untenable or simply wanted more oversight and hand-holding. For example, I've seen quite a few families where English is not the parents' first language where the parents have chosen TNVA. Groups that welcome TNVA students have also become more diverse.

 

 

Edited October 17, 2016 by dmmetler

[Farrar]

Instead of just trusting anecdotes, we could look at the (somewhat sparse) data that exists.

 

http://www.responsiblehomeschooling.org/homeschooling-101/homeschool-demographics/

 

 

I find the statement in an earlier post above that schools should only focus on academics to be strange.  As someone who has worked for many years in several industries, I would assert that someone who has not been personally exposed to people of diverse cultural and ethnic backgrounds, and had the chance to work together with them one on one and to develop the skills to relate to and get along with them, is someone who is completely unprepared for almost any professional career.  Dropping a white kid who has virtually never had a serious conversation with an African-American or Hispanic person off at college and saying "OK, good luck with the real world!" strikes me as unconscionable.

 

Yes.

 

The stats are sparse, but it's a consistent finding. And even when homeschooling is on the rise among non-whites, the clannish nature of homeschooling communities - and I'm sure all of us have seen this how many groups (be they co-ops or park days or just loose support groups) tend to be people who are alike in either religion or educational philosophy or both - means that even when homeschooling becomes more diverse, different racial groups aren't necessarily mingling a ton.

 

I know a number of liberal, supposedly diversity valuing white families who are like mine but where I've seen the kids make some pretty surprising race gaffes - similar to the things Sharon said in her post. And where the parents are still stuck in the "oh, my kids don't see color!" mentality, which is pretty outmoded based on what we know about kids and race and what actually works to get kids to grow up less racist. And I'm - I hope - past that mentality and am trying hard to get my kids past it too and to have experiences with kids who are not like them in various ways, including racially, but I find that homeschooling makes it automatically an uphill battle. For families where no one is thinking about this, where no one is being intentional about it, where diversity isn't an inherent value, I can't imagine those kids are getting the variety of experiences interacting with people who are different from them to know how to act and be. And releasing them into the world, as CaffeineDiary says above, not having done that, feels irresponsible and incomplete.

 

Diversity is definitely one of the mission threads in the history of public schooling. They don't always do great with it, but it is one of the ideals of many public school teachers, administrators, politicians, and communities.

[Tanaqui]

TNVA?

[Dmmetler]

TNVA?

Tennessee Virtual Academy, so the state online charter. Some homeschool groups don't let charter families participate, but where they are allowed, it does seem to increase SES and racial diversity, since some families choose TNVA who otherwise would not have chosen homeschooling.

[Jean in Newcastle]

My Asian first generation immigrant ILs see education as the way to the American dream.  And they see the public school system as the primary conduit of a good education.  For us to homeschool our kids was seen by them as threatening their grandchildren's route to that American dream.  Not that it changed our mind or our approach, but I do understand their fears. 

[maize]

Dropping a white kid who has virtually never had a serious conversation with an African-American or Hispanic person off at college and saying "OK, good luck with the real world!" strikes me as unconscionable.

I'm not sure I agree with this, I think it underestimates the adaptability of young adults.

 

I went to college in a culture I had not grown up in. There was a lot that was confusing at first and I really didn't have anyone to help me navigate, but--I learned, and adapted, and had a good college experience.

[regentrude]

 As someone who has worked for many years in several industries, I would assert that someone who has not been personally exposed to people of diverse cultural and ethnic backgrounds, and had the chance to work together with them one on one and to develop the skills to relate to and get along with them, is someone who is completely unprepared for almost any professional career.  Dropping a white kid who has virtually never had a serious conversation with an African-American or Hispanic person off at college and saying "OK, good luck with the real world!" strikes me as unconscionable

 

I disagree. You are basically saying that immigrants from homogeneous cultures or Americans growing up in areas of the country that are almost exclusively white, like the rural Midwest (my county is 93% white and pretty much all non whites reside in one particular town) are "unprepared for almost any professional career." That is in very strong contrast to the actual professional success of immigrants.

 

I never had a conversation with an African-American or a Hispanic person before emigrating to the US - because there were no  African Americans or Hispanics in my home country when I was growing up. 

I think you grossly underestimate the ability of people to learn, adapt and deal with new people and experiences.

Edited October 17, 2016 by regentrude

[luuknam]

I find the statement in an earlier post above that schools should only focus on academics to be strange.  As someone who has worked for many years in several industries, I would assert that someone who has not been personally exposed to people of diverse cultural and ethnic backgrounds, and had the chance to work together with them one on one and to develop the skills to relate to and get along with them, is someone who is completely unprepared for almost any professional career.  Dropping a white kid who has virtually never had a serious conversation with an African-American or Hispanic person off at college and saying "OK, good luck with the real world!" strikes me as unconscionable.

 

As if public schools are always diverse. Heck, there are entire countries that are very lacking in racial diversity that get by just fine in the world economy.

 

ETA: and, apparently typed that up at the same time Regentrude did.

Edited October 17, 2016 by luuknam

[Guest]

I thought the homeschool movement started with southern and middle class whites finding out the so-call christian schools they spawned, with restricted admissions, were no better than the integrated schools they were fleeing. Then privileged whites joined in because their privileges and educational backgrounds allowed them

No.

[SparklyUnicorn]

 

 

 

I find the statement in an earlier post above that schools should only focus on academics to be strange.  As someone who has worked for many years in several industries, I would assert that someone who has not been personally exposed to people of diverse cultural and ethnic backgrounds, and had the chance to work together with them one on one and to develop the skills to relate to and get along with them, is someone who is completely unprepared for almost any professional career.  Dropping a white kid who has virtually never had a serious conversation with an African-American or Hispanic person off at college and saying "OK, good luck with the real world!" strikes me as unconscionable.

 

Really?  My husband works in software development.  Except maybe working with other immigrants (he is an immigrant) they are all from similar socioeconomic and educational backgrounds.  They are almost all white (a couple are Asian) and most are males.  They do not deal with the public.

 

I think a lot of people end up working with people who are from similar backgrounds. 

 

This is not to say I think schools should only focus on academics.  I agree with you on that point. 

[SparklyUnicorn]

I thought the homeschool movement started with southern and middle class whites finding out the so-call christian schools they spawned, with restricted admissions, were no better than the integrated schools they were fleeing. Then privileged whites joined in because their privileges and educational backgrounds allowed them

 

I thought they were hippie types.

 

Someone correct me if I'm wrong!

[HS Mom in NC]

I disagree. You are basically saying that immigrants from homogeneous cultures or Americans growing up in areas of the country that are almost exclusively white (my county is 93% white and pretty much all non whites reside in one particular town) are "unprepared for almost any professional career." That is in very strong contrast to the actual professional success of immigrants.

 

I never had a conversation with an African-American or a Hispanic before emigrating to the US - because there were no  African Americans or Hispanics in my home country when I was growing up. 

I think you grossly underestimate the ability of people to learn, adapt and deal with new people and experiences.

 

You beat me to it.  Sometimes it's hard to imagine a scenario different than your own.  If you're in a place where there are different ethnic groups it's easy to assume that people who haven't interacted much with different groups must be doing so out of sinister motivations.  Ironically, it's a display of being unfamiliar with differences in regions of the country. There are plenty of places where there are very low numbers of ethnic groups and the people there don't have the opportunity to meet different groups.  Yet an intentional parent can still have conversations with their child about decency, kindness, acceptance and diversity so that the child is able to handle those social interactions in the future.  People from Montana (a very white state) are not categorically incapable of functioning in a diverse professional environment just because few minorities choose to move there. 

 

I agree that homeschooling groups tend to attract like minded people-that's the nature of a support group. Sometimes that like mindedness is cultural which can be more likely to attract a particular racial group.  I think it's important for groups to distinguish if they're a general support group or if they're supporting a specific type of educational philosophy or religious point of view. Let's be honest, the unschoolers don't want to hear about from the Classical Education crowd in detail and vice versa. The secular crowd isn't interested in hearing about how to incorporate more Bible scripture in their day and I don't think there's anything wrong with that.  I don't think they're obligated to spend their time and energy in that kind of group just so they can say they were around people different than them even though I do agree that everyone should make the effort to have their kids around people who are different than them. Usually that happens when there is some sort of common interest in spite of their differences, like PE or a social group open to everyone.

 

I do find it irritating that some general support groups have a statement of faith and then say they want people of all kinds to join.  If it's not a group with a focus on something ideological (creation based science, literature discussion that doesn't include certain themes, religious studies of some sort) then I think the statement of faith is off putting. I'm a conservative Christian.

 

[Tess in the Burbs]

I think you have to look at the demographics of your region first.  Is there a wide variety of ethic groups/racial groups?  I know many homeschool families that are not white.  They represent different races/ethnic groups(not just one).  I agree socioeconomics plays a big role in non white families being able to homeschool. 

[CaffeineDiary]

I never had a conversation with an African-American or a Hispanic person before emigrating to the US - because there were no  African Americans or Hispanics in my home country when I was growing up. 

I think you grossly underestimate the ability of people to learn, adapt and deal with new people and experiences.

 

Many people teach themselves algebra when they are adults; I'd still consider myself to have failed if I dropped my kid off at college without knowing any algebra.

 

 

Really?  My husband works in software development.  Except maybe working with other immigrants (he is an immigrant) they are all from similar socioeconomic and educational backgrounds.  They are almost all white (a couple are Asian) and most are males.  They do not deal with the public.

 

 

I literally have not seen a software development group in the past 15 years that did not regularly interact with Asian or Indian developers.  If your husband isn't working with them, his office is the exception rather than the rule.

 

 

Heck, there are entire countries that are very lacking in racial diversity that get by just fine in the world economy.

 

 

Sure, but we're not in those countries.

 

My claim is that to compete effectively in the professional market across the US - assuming a reasonable amount of mobility and ability to work wherever they want - the ability to relate to people of other cultures is not optional.  Yes, there are corner cases where that statement isn't literally true - if you're gonna be a country lawyer in an all-white county in rural Wyoming, congrats, you will be just fine.  But I think that's a pretty limiting set of circumstances to prepare one's children for.

 

Edited October 17, 2016 by CaffeineDiary

[regentrude]

Many people teach themselves algebra when they are adults; I'd still consider myself to have failed if I dropped my kid off at college without knowing any algebra.

 

So how do you make your kids interact with people of different ethnicities when there are none in your area?

 

ETA: Thinking more about this, your statement might actually be offensive to the very people belonging to the racial minorities, because it suggests that one needs some kind of special training to interact with African American or Hispanic persons - instead of simply being a decent human.

I raise my kids to be decent humans with open minds. That transcends racial and ethnic boundaries.

Edited October 17, 2016 by regentrude

[luuknam]

I literally have not seen a software development group in the past 15 years that did not regularly interact with Asian or Indian developers.  If your husband isn't working with them, his office is the exception rather than the rule.

 

My wife (also in programming) mostly has white male coworkers. She does have an Indian coworker in India (who, I think, has never even left India) she works with too (quite a lot at times). Somehow, that all works out fine, despite never having had to interact with Indians who've never been outside of India while in K-12 (or possibly any Indians - there aren't many Indians in her home town). Probably because, I dunno, they focus on doing the job, not on chatting around the water cooler? And because interacting with other people just isn't rocket science?

Edited October 17, 2016 by luuknam

[CaffeineDiary]

So how do you make your kids interact with people of different ethnicities when there are none in your area?

 

ETA: Thinking more about this, your statement might actually be offensive to the very people belonging to the racial minorities, because it suggests that one needs some kind of special training to interact with African American or Hispanic persons - instead of simply being a decent human.

I raise my kids to be decent humans with open minds. That transcends racial and ethnic boundaries.

 

The answer to your question is "You prioritize it and create those opportunities."

 

I get that this is a sore spot for some people, but, really, I promise you that 'Hey, white folks, you should get out and actually talk to some black people from time to time' is not going to offend black people (or asians, or indians, or...)  But hey, there are people of color on the forum, I'd love to hear what they think about this.

[luuknam]

The answer to your question is "You prioritize it and create those opportunities."

 

I get that this is a sore spot for some people, but, really, I promise you that 'Hey, white folks, you should get out and actually talk to some black people from time to time' is not going to offend black people (or asians, or indians, or...)  But hey, there are people of color on the forum, I'd love to hear what they think about this.

 

"Okay black (Asian, Indian, etc) boardies, who wants their kids to have a play date with my kids so my kids can function better in the professional workplace when they grow up?"

 

Sorry, I just don't see how that is not going to get some serious eye rolling at best.

 

ETA: my kids do interact with all sorts of kids, btw. I just think it's weird to seek out people just because of the color of their skin.

Edited October 17, 2016 by luuknam

[CaffeineDiary]

Saying "You should make opportunities for your kids to meet people of various cultures and ethnicities, because that's good for them and is part of being a well-rounded person" does not mean "You should approach people of color in the rudest way possible."

 

But obviously if it's not important to you, then it's not important to you.   Â¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

Edited October 17, 2016 by CaffeineDiary

[SparklyUnicorn]

Yes, right, exactly, because saying "You should make opportunities for your kids to meet people of various cultures and ethnicities, because that's good for them and is part of being a well-rounded person" is totally the same as "You should approach people of color in the rudest way possible."

 

OK, I give up.

 

You need to be more specific.  What kind of opportunities?  What steps should one take?  I live in a very diverse area, but beyond that I can't make people hang out with us. 

[catz]

My DH works in software, as did I.  We both had opportunities to work and travel to Asia and Europe.  My husband is traveling to India next month. Some people I know in IT are very much ingrained in a local culture in their offices.  I think it can vary widely.

 

Anyway, I was raised in a small extremely homogeous small town.  I went to college at a big 10 university of 50,000.  Some of my best college friends ended up being from Asia (many foreign students in my tech program).  I think it is possible to teach kids to be tolerant and value diversity without being in the middle of it day to day. 

 

We homeschool in a relativity diverse, urban center.  We do have some racial diversity, but not tons.  That said our secular homeschool community is very socio-economically diverse and diverse in terms of different types of families and kids.  My kids do activities with the after school crowd that has diversity that reflects our community.

Edited October 17, 2016 by WoolySocks

[SparklyUnicorn]

My DH works in software, as did I.  We both had opportunities to work and travel to Asia and Europe.  My husband is traveling to India next month. Some people I know in IT are very much ingrained in a local culture in their offices.  I think it can vary widely.

 

There are I believe 2 Asians.  The are some from Europe.  Some Americans.  It's diverse, but in a very different way than in the city we live, for example. 

[luuknam]

Saying "You should make opportunities for your kids to meet people of various cultures and ethnicities, because that's good for them and is part of being a well-rounded person" does not mean "You should approach people of color in the rudest way possible."

 

You were the one who was saying that kids should interact with minorities for future career reasons. I do think it's good for kids to interact with a wide variety of people - but not as a tool to improve their employability. And I think that if people *only* have their kids interact with minorities in order to improve their employability, then that's likely to send a rather bad message, even if they don't phrase it as badly as in my example.

[Crimson Wife]

 

I find the statement in an earlier post above that schools should only focus on academics to be strange.  As someone who has worked for many years in several industries, I would assert that someone who has not been personally exposed to people of diverse cultural and ethnic backgrounds, and had the chance to work together with them one on one and to develop the skills to relate to and get along with them, is someone who is completely unprepared for almost any professional career.  Dropping a white kid who has virtually never had a serious conversation with an African-American or Hispanic person off at college and saying "OK, good luck with the real world!" strikes me as unconscionable.

 

Except the reality is that in many professional careers, the workforce is decidedly non-diverse. In my husband's current industry, the workforce is 47% non-Hispanic white, 41% Asian, 6% Hispanic, and 3% black. And in his previous industry, it was 81% non-Hispanic white, 7% Asian, 6% black, and 5% Hispanic. If you want to get a job in these industries, employers want to see evidence of strong academic preparation, especially in math & science. My district is doing kids a major disservice by refusing to provide the strong academic preparation needed for these high-paying jobs. Savvy parents can supplement outside of school but how is THAT helping "equity"?

[CaffeineDiary]

Sure. I chose that one specific example because it's one that is familiar to me, and one that has obvious consequences that are measurable and foreseeable.

 

When I gave that as a reason, I really didn't expect anyone to mentally insert the word 'only' in there.

 

 

[SKL]

I would assume it is mainly a socioeconomic phenomenon.  (Financial resources, the ability to devote the hours to homeschooling, and also to some extent a higher % of single parents.)  I also agree that there may be more fear of being accused of neglect if the parents are people of color.

 

Then if an AA family does want to join the homeschooling community, it may be difficult because they are such a small minority there compared to the school population.  Perhaps this will change over time though.

[Sneezyone]

Saying "You should make opportunities for your kids to meet people of various cultures and ethnicities, because that's good for them and is part of being a well-rounded person" does not mean "You should approach people of color in the rudest way possible."

 

But obviously if it's not important to you, then it's not important to you.   Â¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

I don't want my kids to be brand ambassadors. I got enough of that in the workplace, TYVM. It is painfully clear at work, however, who doesn't get out or read (in the absence of those opportunities) very much.

[CaffeineDiary]

Except the reality is that in many professional careers, the workforce is decidedly non-diverse. In my husband's current industry, the workforce is 47% non-Hispanic white, 41% Asian, 6% Hispanic, and 3% black. And in his previous industry, it was 81% non-Hispanic white, 7% Asian, 6% black, and 5% Hispanic. If you want to get a job in these industries, employers want to see evidence of strong academic preparation, especially in math & science. My district is doing kids a major disservice by refusing to provide the strong academic preparation needed for these high-paying jobs. Savvy parents can supplement outside of school but how is THAT helping "equity"?

 

I feel like maybe we're talking about different things, but I don't accept the premise that providing education to people of all races, colors, and creeds somehow compromises a school's ability to provide strong academic preparation.  If that happened in your school district, well, it sounds like your school district is terrible.  They'd probably be terrible if all the kids were white, too.

Edited October 17, 2016 by CaffeineDiary

[regentrude]

The answer to your question is "You prioritize it and create those opportunities."

 

I get that this is a sore spot for some people, but, really, I promise you that 'Hey, white folks, you should get out and actually talk to some black people from time to time' is not going to offend black people (or asians, or indians, or...)  But hey, there are people of color on the forum, I'd love to hear what they think about this.

 

And where, pray, do you find the black people if there are none in your community?

How exactly do you prioritize "seeking out black people so my child can be improved for future professional success"?

Put an ad "black person wanted to hang out with my child"?

 

I don't see it as a "sore spot" at all. I just think that specifically seeking out a person for the sole reason that they have a certain color of skin is, actually, racist. ETA: I am white, but I would imagine that a black person would prefer to be seen for her or his own inherent value and not as an instructional opportunity based on skin color.

 

My DS' TKD instructor is African American. I am glad that my DS has this opportunity to interact with a black person, especially since  this is so rare in our town. Mostly I am glad, though, that the guy is an awesome instructor. I don't, however, see any way to "seek out" this specific experience. Sign up for a sport because it has an AA instructor?

DS now also has a training partner who is AA in the city 100 miles away. But "lets take the kids to the big city so they can see some black people" strikes me as rather degrading.

Edited October 17, 2016 by regentrude