Now: Ruminations after the PSAT

[RootAnn]

Updated title to reflect new discussion at end of the thread.

 

Dd#1 is taking the PSAT in the next district over. The guidance counselor said we were not to come in early to fill anything out as all the kids fill out their stuff together on the day of the test. Looking at Kendall's question, I am reminded that there might be questions my dd does not know the answer to. Can anyone tell me (or link me to) a list of the questions she'll encounter on the admin part of the test before the real test starts?

 

Does it ask how many credits of science, math, etc? Which classes? What type of major she's interested in? (These are the types I remember from the ACT registration.)

 

Also, I assume she can leave them blank if she doesn't know.

 

Should she put in an email address or not? (Does it make it easier to get results early?)

Edited October 19, 2016 by RootAnn

[Kathy in Richmond]

This 2016 PSAT Supervisor's manual has a complete copy of the bubble sheets that she'll have to fill out before testing (look at the very end of the pdf). The script that the proctor reads while the kids fill in their answers starts on page 9.

[mirabillis]

wow thanks!!!

[TCB]

Does anyone know if they do need a homeschool code this year? I was able to find the code as Arcadia linked it ( thanks) but when looking through the Supervisor's manual it seemed to say that homeschoolers just tick the homeschooled box and don't have to enter a code. 

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Does anyone know if they do need a homeschool code this year? I was able to find the code as Arcadia linked it ( thanks) but when looking through the Supervisor's manual it seemed to say that homeschoolers just tick the homeschooled box and don't have to enter a code. 

 

From the supervisor's manual Kathy linked to.

 

"The School field has been updated this year. The changes are reflected in the scripting provided for test day. This overview will give you and your associate supervisors additional background on how the field should be filled out by students who attend your school; students who may be visiting from other schools; and home-schooled students. The applicable homeschool code will be applied for any students that grid, “No, I am homeschooled,†based on the address the student grids on the answer sheet."

 

It looks like there are two blocks where students will mark a bubble for being homeschooled.  If the proctor reads the script, this will be quite clear.  The script is in the supervisor's manual along with a copy of the answer sheet that shows all of the required information.

[RootAnn]

This is so helpful.

 

Any input on whether to bubble in an email address?

[cbollin]

This is so helpful.

 

Any input on whether to bubble in an email address?

 

I think last year having email address was helpful in so we could see the scores online before getting the paper mail result.  Had to make an account with college board with it and do something else to set that up, but it was linked via the email that was on the bubble sheet.   There may be other ways to do that without listing it.   And of course it meant some recruitment emails and such. 

[MarkT]

I think last year having email address was helpful in so we could see the scores online before getting the paper mail result.  Had to make an account with college board with it and do something else to set that up, but it was linked via the email that was on the bubble sheet.   There may be other ways to do that without listing it.   And of course it meant some recruitment emails and such. 

You want to sign up for online because for the PSAT you can see every answer your student gave versus the correct answer. They do treat it as a practice test. I give the CB credit there.

[JanetC]

If you tick the box for allowing the college board to sell you contact info to colleges, be sure to create a new email address just for your junk emails.

 

[cbollin]

You want to sign up for online because for the PSAT you can see every answer your student gave versus the correct answer. They do treat it as a practice test. I give the CB credit there.

 

 

agreeing it's nice to get the questions and answers back.   Last year having the online access (with linked email) meant we got to see it sooner that way.  They still returned my student's booklet along with answers in the report via regular mail a few days/weeks later.    We would have had the access to that either way.

 

 

 

oops forgot to hit multiquote on Janet's email advice.

 

(and yes, the emails that come in from colleges.  a spare email account may have been nice for that)  One of the CB emails was a even a reminder that fafsa was earlier this year.  Well I think it was from CB.  maybe it was a college via ACT. or both.  side note With the emails coming in this fall we were offered some with use this code for no application fee, no essay required.  (oh wait. that was from ACT score and not from PSAT.)

[RootAnn]

Dd is taking it right now. I sent our state's homeschool code just in case and we set up a new email address just for college emails (seems so early for all this).

 

I told her not to stress about the questions at the beginning because it doesn't matter if she remembers to fill in what year she is taking World History or whether she's taking Trig or Biology. I hope she's not too brain dead when she gets home because today is her long day for online classes. (Her Comp teacher didn't seem to have many kids taking it, but Dd#2's teacher had a special email about it.)

[daijobu]

Here's a lesson we learned today the hard way.  Make sure your student knows his/her own social security number.  

[RootAnn]

I had my kid leave that section blank. I don't think they need to know a SS#! (She also left the religion question & a couple of others blank.)

 

I am a little nervous because DD said the proctor had all the kids leave the school code section blank, which makes me believe the school is going to bubble in the number. (There were only two kids plus my DD taking the test at the entire school, so it won't be that big of a deal for someone to bubble in that one code.) I sent the homeschool code with DD, but she followed the proctor's instructions to not bubble anything in that spot. I hope the "I'm homeschooled" bubble over-rules the school code that might get bubbled in for her.

[wapiti]

So Root Ann and daijobu, what did they think of it?  Word I got was that the non-calc math section contained more advanced math than was expected (and only one geometry question anywhere) - would they agree or did they see it differently?

[daijobu]

She thought the grammar was easy, the reading passages were doable.  There were a couple of math problems that were more difficult than expected.

 

If you and your students want to have a good laugh, then search on google with these key words:  reddit psat 2016 memes.  Dd had a good cathartic laugh over those posts, but warning, they are nsfw for language and sexual references.  

[RootAnn]

There was only one geometry question on the practice test. She remembers at least one on this one. She didn't think there was more advanced math than she expected, but some of the math is still above her so that doesn't mean much- there was probably several that were pure guesses. (Edited to add: She thought she did better on the non-calc section than she did on the practice test. She did not do well on the practice test, so again, keep that in mind.)

Edited October 19, 2016 by RootAnn

[rdj2027]

#2 son thought the math section was harder than on the old PSAT and he found the time allotted for math was not sufficient (he was the only one in his group who actually finished math albeit barely and he guessed on a couple of questions).  English he deemed simpler than in the past.  He took it only because he likes taking bubble tests.  

 

#3 son said math was over his head.  He did 8th grade at the local PS last year and was placed in Math 8.  Algebra1 is high school math and they just finished the 1st quarter which was all review.  l honestly wonder why the high school makes 9th graders take the PSAT when they did not even have Algebra1.  He personally has difficulties with English/language in general so my guess is his scores will be low.  I don't plan on him retaking it in 11th grade.

[KarenNC]

My daughter felt that she did better on the math section this year. Fingers crossed that that's the case as it is the math that will keep her out of NMSF status if anything does.

[TCB]

My dd took it this morning as well. She thought it was a bit easier than the practice test, and she thought the hardest section was the non-calculator one. It's hard to tell with her though. Last year she came out and said she thought it was a hard test and several of the other kids we know came out saying it was easy. In the end she got a higher grade then the others by a fair margin, so not sure if she is good at judging, or they aren't lol! 

[mirabillis]

very helpful! my 9th grader takes his first practice PSAT this coming nov. 2. i've got the student info section printed out to go over with him so he doesn't flip about some of those questions... and also hoping the 'i'm homeschooled' bubble is sufficient. it seems so accg to the supervisor's manual

 

[Vida Winter]

The school dd took hers in did not start the test until noon in order to work around a field trip. They didn't finish, and we need to go back tomorrow morning. They also didn't ask for ID, and one of the other moms said they never ask for ID. A junior who goes to that school will be on a trip tomorrow and won't be there to finish the test.

 

[Luckymama]

The school dd took hers in did not start the test until noon in order to work around a field trip. They didn't finish, and we need to go back tomorrow morning. They also didn't ask for ID, and one of the other moms said they never ask for ID. A junior who goes to that school will be on a trip tomorrow and won't be there to finish the test.

What? Is that even allowed?

[Paige]

My DS took it yesterday and forgot his calculator. I gave it to him twice the night before and handed it to him the morning of as he was walking out, but somehow he still forgot. Is he doomed? He doesn't typically use calculators other than for tedious calculations (something like 43^7) but the teachers were stressing that he needed one so much that he's anxious. He said he finished everything, but nobody else was working without a calculator and they wouldn't give him one. Maybe it would have just messed him up and slowed him down since he's not used to them. 

 

As for the ID, we were told only seniors needed ID. 

[cuckoomamma]

Dd also felt non-calc math was the most difficult.  Many kids in her room didn't have calculators and the school was sending someone around room to room loaning them out.  She also said that many had no pencils. The teacher remarked that dd was really prepared because she had two pencils.  :crying:   

[JoJosMom]

My DS took it yesterday and forgot his calculator. I gave it to him twice the night before and handed it to him the morning of as he was walking out, but somehow he still forgot. Is he doomed? He doesn't typically use calculators other than for tedious calculations (something like 43^7) but the teachers were stressing that he needed one so much that he's anxious. He said he finished everything, but nobody else was working without a calculator and they wouldn't give him one. Maybe it would have just messed him up and slowed him down since he's not used to them. 

 

As for the ID, we were told only seniors needed ID. 

 

FWIW, I asked my DD how often she needed to use her calculator on the calculator portion and she said, "Not very often."  Like your son, she tends to not use one absent long calculations.  Good luck to him!

[RootAnn]

My DS took it yesterday and forgot his calculator. I gave it to him twice the night before and handed it to him the morning of as he was walking out, but somehow he still forgot. Is he doomed?

 

DD said she used it for the problems involving percentiles as she doesn't care for division. If he got done within the time, I don't see any issue.

[Vida Winter]

What? Is that even allowed?

 

I'm sure they never even checked to see if it is allowed. I had to take her up to the school at 7 a.m., come back home to teach a class on line from 8-9, then drive back to the school to pick her up, so my morning was shot for the second day in a row. I didn't complain and am sure they don't even think they did anything out of the ordinary. There were two kids who took most of the test yesterday that were not there today.

[daijobu]

 

 

If you and your students want to have a good laugh, then search on google with these key words:  reddit psat 2016 memes.  Dd had a good cathartic laugh over those posts, but warning, they are nsfw for language and sexual references.  

 

And weirdly, both People and the Washington Post have reported on the 2016 PSAT memes.  Apparently it's a thing.  

 

My dd was lol.  

[MarkT]

DS finished all questions and even had some time to check his answers - he thought he did pretty well - I'll see in December

[Blossom'sGirl]

Ds said he saw a kid using a calculator on the no calculator portion.  That irritates me.  He also said he thought the no calculator portion was harder than last year.

[creekland]

The school dd took hers in did not start the test until noon in order to work around a field trip. They didn't finish, and we need to go back tomorrow morning. They also didn't ask for ID, and one of the other moms said they never ask for ID. A junior who goes to that school will be on a trip tomorrow and won't be there to finish the test.

 

:svengo:

 

What? Is that even allowed?

 

No.  If College Board finds out about it, they will disallow all scores from that school.

 

Ds said he saw a kid using a calculator on the no calculator portion.  That irritates me.  He also said he thought the no calculator portion was harder than last year.

 

That would be super irritating and would also disallow the score (at least from that kid).  They should disallow that score TBH - and not allow that proctor to oversee testing of any sort any longer.

[happypamama]

:svengo:

 

 

No.  If College Board finds out about it, they will disallow all scores from that school.

 

 

That would be super irritating and would also disallow the score (at least from that kid).  They should disallow that score TBH - and not allow that proctor to oversee testing of any sort any longer.

If they disallow all scores from that school, would they allow the students to take the test again, or would it automatically mean that the 11th graders from that school wouldn't be eligible for National Merit at all?

 

That school sounds rather unprofessional, to say the least.

[creekland]

If they disallow all scores from that school, would they allow the students to take the test again, or would it automatically mean that the 11th graders from that school wouldn't be eligible for National Merit at all?

 

That school sounds rather unprofessional, to say the least.

 

I'm honestly not sure how it proceeds from there.  Perhaps someone else knows?

[8filltheheart]

What was that school thinking in splitting the test up over 2 days? Obviously they are treating like a practice test vs anything meaningful. I do not see how those scores can possibly be valid on multiple fronts. 1-the internet streams with kids discussing the test and 2-not having to have faced the entire test in a single sitting. Timing and test fatigue are real impnfluences on scores.

 

I would be so upset bc NM scholarships are so important!

[Paige]

Why does the National Merit Scholarship weight English/Reading heavier than math? 

[8filltheheart]

Why does the National Merit Scholarship weight English/Reading heavier than math?

They have done so for decades. I have heard the original reason was due to inequality in results in males vs females when the weights were equal, but I don't know if that is true. Ironically, my girls always score higher in math!

[Paige]

They have done so for decades. I have heard the original reason was due to inequality in results in males vs females when the weights were equal, but I don't know if that is true. Ironically, my girls always score higher in math!

 

My DS always scored higher in English and Grammar! He's good in math, but a better test taker with English. 

 

I was just curious. It sounds like a sort of ridiculous policy unless they're sponsored by an English department or something. 

[Caroline]

Ds said he saw a kid using a calculator on the no calculator portion. That irritates me. He also said he thought the no calculator portion was harder than last year.

There are students who have an accommodation that allows them to use a calculator on the non calculator portion. It wouldn't be advertised to the whole testing group, so your child wouldn't know that the student had that accommodation.

[daijobu]

My dd pointed out that on multiple levels, students with higher English scores are given a leg up.  Not only are English scores worth twice as much as math, but math formulas are provided, while there is no commensurate reference aid for the verbal portion.  I'm not sure what that aid might look like, but still.  

[daijobu]

What was that school thinking in splitting the test up over 2 days? Obviously they are treating like a practice test vs anything meaningful. I do not see how those scores can possibly be valid on multiple fronts. 1-the internet streams with kids discussing the test and 2-not having to have faced the entire test in a single sitting. Timing and test fatigue are real impnfluences on scores.

 

I would be so upset bc NM scholarships are so important!

 

This is so true.  Dd has a pretty good idea of her raw score from the posts on reddit.  

 

ETA:  And I mean, she had this info within an hour or so of coming home.  

Edited October 21, 2016 by daijobu

[wapiti]

My dd pointed out that on multiple levels, students with higher English scores are given a leg up.  Not only are English scores worth twice as much as math, but math formulas are provided, while there is no commensurate reference aid for the verbal portion.  I'm not sure what that aid might look like, but still.  

 

Adding to this thought, I read an article cited over on CC about the new SAT, an interview with Coleman I think, about how the College Board *accidentally* included too many language-heavy questions in the math sections.  Language-heavy math questions were supposed to be something like 10% of the questions but ended up around 50%.  That is shocking to me, how CB could be such doofuses.

Edited October 21, 2016 by wapiti

[Kassia]

  That is shocking to me, how CB could be such doofuses.

 

 

Nothing shocks me about CB.  They are all about $$$ and nothing else, IMO.

[RootAnn]

Adding to this thought, I read an article cited over on CC about the new SAT, an interview with Coleman I think, about how the College Board *accidentally* included too many language-heavy questions in the math sections.  Language-heavy math questions were supposed to be something like 10% of the questions but ended up around 50%.  That is shocking to me, how CB could be such doofuses.

 

I noticed there seemed to be a lot more story problems in the math section rather than (relatively simple) calculation-type problems. I thought they were doing this on purpose, especially with the new grid-in problems as you couldn't just plug-and-chug.

[Vida Winter]

What was that school thinking in splitting the test up over 2 days? Obviously they are treating like a practice test vs anything meaningful. I do not see how those scores can possibly be valid on multiple fronts. 1-the internet streams with kids discussing the test and 2-not having to have faced the entire test in a single sitting. Timing and test fatigue are real impnfluences on scores.

 

I would be so upset bc NM scholarships are so important!

 

 

It is outrageous.

 

[wapiti]

I noticed there seemed to be a lot more story problems in the math section rather than (relatively simple) calculation-type problems. I thought they were doing this on purpose, especially with the new grid-in problems as you couldn't just plug-and-chug.

 

For anyone interested in this concern, here is the article:  http://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/college-sat-redesign/

 

“Wow,†Miller wrote in reply. “We had changed that to 10% heavy in the specs given the timing studies. How did we get 45% of them being heavy?â€

 

Miller was referring to the planned revisions to the word-count mix that the College Board had resolved to make the previous summer. But the College Board never followed through on its plan to reconfigure the exam, despite the timing study’s findings and the reviewer complaints. Instead of 10 percent of the math questions being “heavy,†greater than 60 words, almost half remained that long, according to the January 2015 emails.

 

It’s unclear why the College Board failed to address the issue. The organization wouldn’t make the project’s top leader, Schmeiser, available for an interview.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

What was that school thinking in splitting the test up over 2 days? Obviously they are treating like a practice test vs anything meaningful. I do not see how those scores can possibly be valid on multiple fronts. 1-the internet streams with kids discussing the test and 2-not having to have faced the entire test in a single sitting. Timing and test fatigue are real impnfluences on scores.

 

I would be so upset bc NM scholarships are so important!

 

This is such a violation of test security protocols.  I hate it when schools do things like this.  (And especially when some schools give homeschoolers a hard time about testing because they would be outsiders who might cause a problem.)  

[TCB]

There are students who have an accommodation that allows them to use a calculator on the non calculator portion. It wouldn't be advertised to the whole testing group, so your child wouldn't know that the student had that accommodation.

 

 

What kind of accommodation would that be? I'm not sure I get the whole accommodation thing.

[Caroline]

What kind of accommodation would that be? I'm not sure I get the whole accommodation thing.

I don't know why someone would get that accommodation, but it was mentioned in the examiner's guide.

[Kathy in Richmond]

What kind of accommodation would that be? I'm not sure I get the whole accommodation thing.

[Kathy in Richmond]

Trying again.....

 

I'm currently SAT tutoring a student who has that accommodation. He has a documented math disability & is allowed to use a 4-function calculator on the non-calculator portion of the math test.