RegGuheert Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 I have been asked to schedule the ushers for our church. I haven't accepted, yet, but probably will. I've been thinking about this and it occurred to me that I could MORE than double the number of potential ushers if I asked women to ush in addition to men. But I puzzled and puzzled 'til my puzzler was sore and I cannot recall EVER seeing a female usher in ANY church I have ever attended. Why is that? The word "usher" is not in the bible, so it doesn't seem to be prohibited. (Please, no discussion of whether "ushing" is right or wrong. We do it. I'm just trying to understand why it is such a masculine activity.) TIA! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caroline Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 (edited) I grew up in a church with both male and female ushers. I have never noticed if churches have had both male and female ushers. I think I have always assume the church has both and maybe no females signed up for that week? Edited July 23, 2016 by Caroline 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbel Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 My church is pretty conservative but we have female ushers. It is recent though. I think the church leadership went through the same process as you did, and concluded that there is no reason to exclude women from this job. Often we have husband/wife teams (we are small enough to only need two ushers for a service). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8circles Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 I have always attended churches with both male & female ushers. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catz Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 Our church has all genders and even entire families serving as ushers. We go to a UU church though. My Catholic Church growing up had female ushers. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 (edited) My churches have men-only ushers. It has to do with the Bible requiring men to hold the leadership positions in the church. ETA: And I'm really not going to argue the "rightness" of this view. Just stating that's where it comes from. Edited July 23, 2016 by Kinsa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faithr Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 I'm Catholic and my parish has both male and female ushers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethel Mertz Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 We have both male and female ushers as well. We also have women clergy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie4b Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 You will have to ask your church leadership. Female ushers and even children are common in many churches. Even if a church is male-only leadership, ushers are not regarded as leaders in many of those churches. They don't make any kind of leadership decisions. But you will have to figure it out with your own church leadership. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolt. Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 If "ushers" in your context means "people who hand out communion / lord's supper" -- some deeply non-egalitarian spaces would think men ought not to receive those things from a woman's hands. There is implied 'superiority' in that act of service on some people's eyes... Possibly in collecting offering too. In my opinion, you'd have to be deeply patriarchal to believe and enact a male-only-usher policy. In such a context I'd expect women to be barred also from all speaking roles -- consudering even non-speaking roles are too elevated for women. However, your congregation might just be in a habit that lacks the old-fashioned (and distasteful) motives that created the practice. If you have the ability to change it... DO IT! 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellifera33 Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 (edited) Both my former church, which does not ordain women, and my current church, which does ordain women, have female ushers. I've never thought of ushering as being a leadership activity, but maybe at some churches the ushers do more than greet churchgoers and pass out bulletins? Edited to add: Ah, I see Bolt's post above about serving communion, so that was what I was missing. At my former church, deacons helped the pastor serve communion, and at my current church....well, I'm not sure. It's a huge church, a new denomination to me, and I'm not sure exactly what position everyone holds! Edited July 23, 2016 by mellifera33 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet Crown Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 All the ushers I've ever seen at our downtown parish, where an usher is not infrequently called on to be a bouncer, have been men. Burly men, with calm demeanors. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 Huh, never thought about it, but ALL the ushers at my parish are men. Usually older men, like definitely 60 or older. We have women Eucharistic Ministers, so there is no theological reason we couldn't have women ushers, we just don't. I wonder if the ushers are all in the Knights of Columbus and that's why? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellifera33 Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 All the ushers I've ever seen at our downtown parish, where an usher is not infrequently called on to be a bouncer, have been men. Burly men, with calm demeanors. I have to say, I have never attended a church with a bouncer. I think I'm missing something good. :laugh: 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet Crown Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 I have to say, I have never attended a church with a bouncer. I think I'm missing something good. :laugh: I've seen them in action. You're indeed missing something good. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 I have to say, I have never attended a church with a bouncer. I think I'm missing something good. :laugh: We have armed guards on our church campus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustEm Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 I'm Catholic and our church has both male and female ushers. It seems all the male ushers are members of The Knights of Columbus and currently there is only one female usher. There have been other female ones in the past though 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 If "ushers" in your context means "people who hand out communion / lord's supper" -- some deeply non-egalitarian spaces would think men ought not to receive those things from a woman's hands. There is implied 'superiority' in that act of service on some people's eyes... Possibly in collecting offering too. Commenting on this... Yes, this is a held belief also. Because the Bible clearly delineates a hierarchy of leadership within the church from God--> Jesus--> man--> woman, it is believed that the Body of Christ ought to be passed from Jesus to man to woman, therefore men-only ushers to pass out the communion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brehon Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 There are male and female ushers for the Mass my family attends, probably mostly male. At the Vigil Mass my middle two serve, I think it's all male, including my eldest boy, except for my eldest girl. This is at a downtown parish with...interesting characters who sometimes appear. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellifera33 Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 We have armed guards on our church campus. Wow, I've never heard of that either. Do you attend a church with a history of violent events? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 Wow, I've never heard of that either. Do you attend a church with a history of violent events? Well, first of all, I should mention that I no longer attend that church since we moved a few weeks ago. But also, there's no history of violent events that I'm aware of. However, it's not uncommon here for the larger mega-churches to have armed guards on campus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellifera33 Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 Well, first of all, I should mention that I no longer attend that church since we moved a few weeks ago. But also, there's no history of violent events that I'm aware of. However, it's not uncommon here for the larger mega-churches to have armed guards on campus. Interesting. I'd never thought of that. No mega-churches near Big Bend? :laugh: How far do you have to drive to find a mini-church? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsMommy Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 We have one female usher at my rather conservative (I prefer the word confessional) church, because no other women have shown any interest in doing that job. But at my church, the ushers hand out bulletins, assist with seating when needed, and collect the offering. They do not participate in the distribution of the Lord's Supper. That job is reserved for men only, usually an elder or seminarian in addition to the pastors, because it is related to the pastoral office, and we ordain men only. Seating people and collecting money, however is not part of the pastoral office, and can be done by anyone. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 Interesting. I'd never thought of that. No mega-churches near Big Bend? :laugh: How far do you have to drive to find a mini-church? No mega-churches out here - can you believe that??? (LOL) Tomorrow we are going to drive about 30 miles to the closest church to give it a try. It's really our best option. The next one is 70 miles away, and after that there are a few 110 miles away. No worry about armed guards here. Every single person carries on their own. (LOL) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrincessMommy Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 Yes, I think defining the usher's purposes would be helpful. If you mean guys that hand out bulletins and do the collection then we have both male-female ushers in our Orthodox church. We have a candle stand, and, at our parish, its usually men that keep an eye on that. Other local parishes have women too. It's not because we need a bouncer, but I think it's something that quiet unassuming men like to do. These are the guys that would never, ever want do to any kind of public speaking or leadership (parish president) type jobs. They also take prayer requests up to the altar for the priests to have. Their wives are sometimes there helping them out too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrixieB Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 We have both male and female ushers as well. We also have women clergy. Same here. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8circles Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 Armed guards at church? Well you learn something new every day... Now I'm done. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Lulu* Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 If you are part of a faith tradition that does not ordain women I would ask a minister before opening the role of usher up to women in your church. I have been in churches where it was a held theological belief that women should not usher and I have been in churches where it was just the way it had always been and no one had thought to change it. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RegGuheert Posted July 23, 2016 Author Share Posted July 23, 2016 Yes, I think defining the usher's purposes would be helpful. Based on the GREAT discussion here, I agree that is important. Here are some particulars about our church: - We go to a non-denominational, conservative, but not traditional church. - Ushers have two roles: pass the plate and count the money. - We have separate greeters, usually a husband and wife, that pass out bulletins and greet people before church. - Communion is served by the male head of the household to the family members or alternatively by the pastor or an elder if preferred. - I don't think anyone would want to make the mistake of disrupting our church. We have several very large men who are likely packing in attendance. (I am not them!) Some thoughts: - Yes, I can probably get this changed if I simply say: "Sure, I'll take this role if you will allow me to also ask women to serve as ushers." - I sometimes "ush" and I do not view it as a leadership role in our church. I view it as a servanthood role. - While I REALLY like the idea of asking husband-and-wife teams to be ushers, I'm a little concerned about having husband-and-wife teams counting the money. While I trust everyone in our church, I think it is best to avoid ANY possible impression of impropriety when it comes to money. Women sometimes count the money, but I cannot recall ever seeing two related people counting. I will ask the elders about this. Perhaps on Sundays when a husband and wife served, they would simply need to ask someone else to help one of them count the money. More thoughts? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmseB Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 It's pretty common that deacons are male-only positions in churches, and that one of the responsibilities of being a deacon in many churches is to usher. Thus you end up with a all-ushers-are-male scenario. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmseB Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 Armed guards at church? Well you learn something new every day... Now I'm done. Most large venues have armed security. Frankly, I think it's smart when you have a large group of people very focused on a stage or similar and not necessarily paying attention to their surroundings to have at least one person looking around, even if they are not armed. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freesia Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 Our has both. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 (edited) Most large venues have armed security. Frankly, I think it's smart when you have a large group of people very focused on a stage or similar and not necessarily paying attention to their surroundings to have at least one person looking around, even if they are not armed. Yes, I can't think of any scenario with thousands of people in attendance in which an armed guard isn't present. ETA: Except maybe an anti-gun gathering. LOL ETA: Sorry to derail the thread. If your ushers are merely collecting the offerings, I don't see why it couldn't be women also. Might be worth asking the church leadership about. Edited July 23, 2016 by Kinsa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8circles Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 Our ushers greet, hand out bulletins, dismiss rows for communion, & take offering. We have counters who count the money. We also have female deacons and they help serve communion. But then we also ordain women. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty ethel rackham Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 Based on the GREAT discussion here, I agree that is important. Here are some particulars about our church: - We go to a non-denominational, conservative, but not traditional church. - Ushers have two roles: pass the plate and count the money. - We have separate greeters, usually a husband and wife, that pass out bulletins and greet people before church. - Communion is served by the male head of the household to the family members or alternatively by the pastor or an elder if preferred. - I don't think anyone would want to make the mistake of disrupting our church. We have several very large men who are likely packing in attendance. (I am not them!) Some thoughts: - Yes, I can probably get this changed if I simply say: "Sure, I'll take this role if you will allow me to also ask women to serve as ushers." - I sometimes "ush" and I do not view it as a leadership role in our church. I view it as a servanthood role. - While I REALLY like the idea of asking husband-and-wife teams to be ushers, I'm a little concerned about having husband-and-wife teams counting the money. While I trust everyone in our church, I think it is best to avoid ANY possible impression of impropriety when it comes to money. Women sometimes count the money, but I cannot recall ever seeing two related people counting. I will ask the elders about this. Perhaps on Sundays when a husband and wife served, they would simply need to ask someone else to help one of them count the money. More thoughts? I would probably ask or only volunteer if women can usher. In our church, an usher is really part of the host/greeter team. They hand out worship aids, help seat people, take up the collection, and help control the flow of traffic to the altar for communion (including indicating to the Eucharistic minister someone who may not be able to come up to the altar to take communion -elderly or infirm), hand out bulletins at the end of the Mass, and then walk through the church straightening up for the next Mass as well as any lost items. They are also instructed in emergency procedures (someone falls ill suddenly, there is a need for evacuation, etc.) We have all kinds of people serving as ushers/greeters. We even have whole families who do so. Young children are supervised by their parents. This is not a position of authority (other than crowd control if necessary), but service. As far as counting money, I am not sure who has that job (I think it is actually the Eucharistic ministers.) But, I do know that they take the collection in a group of 3 unrelated people. We never allow related people to be in charge of the money. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 When I was a kid, in my LCMS church, ushers were all men, and acolytes were all boys. The only female job in church was the Altar Guild, which nobody saw as they did their work before/after services. I was a pioneer as I broke the glass ceiling in the balcony and rang the bells (but again, nobody saw). In my current church - another LCMS church but 40 years later - females can be ushers, acolytes, readers, and board members. So far no female pastors yet. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieA97 Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 At our church we do the following: -Greeters or sometimes called Ushers- hand out bulletins, welcome and greet you, help you find a seat if needed. Thats it. Both men and women do this -Deacons- various leadership roles includong taking up the collection and counting it. Several are in charge of counting it. Due to the other leadership roles, some churches allow men and women to be Deacons. Some allow only men. The church I grew up in had both men and women deacons. The church I attend now (same tiny denomination, same city) only has men. Its always been that way and no one seems motivated to change it yet. -Elder- lots of leadership and helps the minister serve communion. Only men are elders. I don't agree with only men in leadership roles but this church fits us so well otherwise I let it go. It honestly never comes up in sermons or teachings and I can't remember hearing about gender roles at all actually. If it was something that they focused on we would probably change denomonations. Dh and I both grew up in this one though so we have very strong ties to it and the people in it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6packofun Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 Commenting on this... Yes, this is a held belief also. Because the Bible clearly delineates a hierarchy of leadership within the church from God--> Jesus--> man--> woman, it is believed that the Body of Christ ought to be passed from Jesus to man to woman, therefore men-only ushers to pass out the communion. Who holds this belief about the Body of Christ? I've never heard any belief in hierarchy being applied that way! Interesting. We've attended 2 Southern Baptist churches in the past several years, both male elder-led congregations. The first had men doing the ushering but mainly because it was part of the deacon duties, however there have been conversations about adding women deacons. Hasn't gone anywhere, but at least they're talking. lol I actually don't think this church would agree with the leadership hierarchy thing being applied to handing out the elements of communion; it's just worked out that the deacons do it. At our current SB church, there are only men pastors and elders, but men and women both do virtually everything else. I'm not actually sure I've heard/seen anyone referred to as a deacon, though, now that I think of it! lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmseB Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 I am a conservative Christian, but I would not say that women are called to be submissive to men in general. I don't think that's an accurate way to phrase the leadership structure the Bible talks about. I would not frame that aspect of the leadership hierarchy of the church as men>women. Then again, non-Christians often object to any form of submission as a superiority/inferiority dichotomy. So even if the church ordained women, many would not acknowledge the church as having authority or leadership over any family or member. It's simply a group of like-minded people who hire speakers and administrators and call it ordination. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolt. Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 (edited) I am a conservative Christian, but I would not say that women are called to be submissive to men in general. I don't think that's an accurate way to phrase the leadership structure the Bible talks about. I would not frame that aspect of the leadership hierarchy of the church as men>women. Then again, non-Christians often object to any form of submission as a superiority/inferiority dichotomy. So even if the church ordained women, many would not acknowledge the church as having authority or leadership over any family or member. It's simply a group of like-minded people who hire speakers and administrators and call it ordination. In fact, I'd add that Christians (not just non-christians) often object to any form of submission that implies there is a dichotomy at all, or hints at the inferiority or superiority of any believer. "Biblical submission" does not have those attributes. It is a deep well of worldliness (and the limitations of English as a language) that adds those distracting concepts to the Biblical ideal. Edited July 23, 2016 by bolt. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 My churches have men-only ushers. It has to do with the Bible requiring men to hold the leadership positions in the church. ETA: And I'm really not going to argue the "rightness" of this view. Just stating that's where it comes from. That's interesting. Is being an usher considered leadership? Sounds like helps ministry to me. Anyway, I've seen both but there do seem to be more men that do this. I figured it was just traditional. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartlikealion Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 (edited) Well I have another question. When you say usher, do you mean the person that takes you to a seat? Or the person that passes the collection baskets around? Or both? Because really, I hardly see anyone lead people to seats anymore. But I do see men and women pass collection baskets around the church. Sometimes even teenagers. Edited: I see where you described the passing the plate/counting the money. Since you have already done this, then it sounds like they don't care if you have women do it? I guess just double check that scheduling women regularly would not be objected. Edited July 23, 2016 by heartlikealion 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbel Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 In our church, the ushers take the offering but they don't handle the money after that. They give it to a team that includes deacons, an elder, the church treasurer and one other person. When it was opened up to women few of us wanted to do it. I don't want to do it. I don't know why. It's not a leadership position and I'm not against it. I just don't want to be up there and visible. Plus, I have several other "jobs" at church and like to have some days I have zero obligations, kwim? The women who are doing it are young, some married, some single. Usher is not considered a leadership position. Deacons and elders are all male. But they are talking about setting up a diaconal committee which would include women, I think. I would be up for that. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 I Was Female Usher. :::cue music::: I used to ush with my dad and then with my dh. Presbyterian at the time. One of the reasons I loved it was that I got to greet a lot of people. The main reason I hated it was because I got a lot of comments about how glad people were that I was ushing (bolder words follow) because I was doing so much for the cause of women. I hated having any motive assigned. It took the fun out of it and I didn't do it much longer. Btw, we had women clergy in that denomination and at that church. Ironically, I am now at the Orthodox Church and do pretty my the same thing, helping new people find their way through the service books and so on. Our priest has asked four of us who are good at this because we are just made this way to be the official greeters. All are women. But the funny thing was that being asked made it more into a job and took the fun out of it. Silly, right? So I told that to my priest and said I would rather not be identified as a Greeter. And everything was back to normal. People (meaning me myself in this case) are odd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 I am a conservative Christian, but I would not say that women are called to be submissive to men in general. I don't think that's an accurate way to phrase the leadership structure the Bible talks about. I would not frame that aspect of the leadership hierarchy of the church as men>women. Then again, non-Christians often object to any form of submission as a superiority/inferiority dichotomy. So even if the church ordained women, many would not acknowledge the church as having authority or leadership over any family or member. It's simply a group of like-minded people who hire speakers and administrators and call it ordination. Nooo, women are not called to be submissive to "men" but it sure has been twisted that way. Your own husband only is about the extent of it, and then you have to understand what submission means - it means submit to one another. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RegGuheert Posted July 23, 2016 Author Share Posted July 23, 2016 Since you have already done this, then it sounds like they don't care if you have women do it?Except for one thing: I am a man. :) 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 There have been women ushers in almost all of the churches I recall attending. Mostly Catholic and Episcopalian but I have visited other churches and we used to regularly attend an American Baptist church. The exception was a very conservative Catholic Church where we went when I was 7. There were no women ushers or girl acolytes there. Also, I've never been to a church where communion was handed out by ushers or deacons performed the role of usher. volunteer ushers have been laypeople. Deacons in the permanent deaconate within the Catholic Church perform a number of (but not all of) the same roles as a priest does. I am most familiar with Catholic deacons and understand that different denominations have different roles for deacons. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom2scouts Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 All of the churches I've attended have had women ushers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 Our church doesn't feel that deacons are sex limited, biblically, like elders, so they do actually confirm deaconesses. Our ushers are deacons, so there are both male and female. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 Our church has armed guards, too, but they are undercover and not apparent. Same with medical emergency staff. I only know the former because my friend's DH is in LE and he is security at church. I know the later because I had a medical incident at church, embarassing thought that was. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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