gardenmom5 Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 in turkey. reports the general chief of staff has been taken prisoner, erdogran is reported safe, bridges over the bosphorous are both closed, reports of explosions, low flying helicopters, gun fire, f15s over Ankara . . . military seizing police weapons . . I can't link on this browser . . . how annoying. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 Wel, this is unexpected news. http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/16/world/europe/military-attempts-coup-in-turkey-prime-minister-says.html?_r=0 Twitter users are way out ahead of the news outlets but harder to tell fact from fiction there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hornblower Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 we're talking about it here http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/618113-turkish-attempted-military-coup-happening-right-now/?p=7105728 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36809083 This is crazy...like, I thought it was going to be a fake news thing. But it's not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 (edited) Someone started a wiki page. That is weird to me that a wiki is started on something unverified. I grew up with Thailand having many coup d'état https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Turkish_coup_d%27état_attempt ETA: I thought it hasn't been confirmed. Edited July 15, 2016 by Arcadia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 (edited) Oy. We have American troops stationed in Turkey. I wonder what their action has been, if anything. Edited July 15, 2016 by Kinsa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted July 15, 2016 Author Share Posted July 15, 2016 (edited) Someone started a wiki page. That is weird to me that a wiki is started on something unverified. I grew up with Thailand having many coup d'état https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Turkish_coup_d%27état_attempt the prime minister of turkey, binali yildirim, is publically commenting on the attempted/in-progress coup (that the government is fighting back) - that's hardly unverified. eta: I should have added my son sent me links to reuters twitter feed and two others, before I went looking for more on other news sites. Edited July 15, 2016 by gardenmom5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hornblower Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 Oy. We have American troops stationed in Turkey. I wonder what their action has been, if anything. "Situation in Turkey for U.S. Military: Force Protection Condition Delta. For perspective, that was the condition ordered following 9/11." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mabelen Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 It looks like a failed attempt. Not all coup attempts are successful, thankfully! I was in high school when we had one like that in Spain. It was unnerving but democracy won. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hornblower Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 It looks like a failed attempt. Not all coup attempts are successful, thankfully! I was in high school when we had one like that in Spain. It was unnerving but democracy won. I think it's much too early to say that. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted July 15, 2016 Author Share Posted July 15, 2016 (edited) It looks like a failed attempt. Not all coup attempts are successful, thankfully! I was in high school when we had one like that in Spain. It was unnerving but democracy won. If you go to news sites broadcasting live, you'll see things are very much in turmoil. Only time will tell who comes out with power. The military is more secular than erdogan - who's becoming increasingly autocratic. Edited July 15, 2016 by gardenmom5 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathryn Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 Unsurprising. Erdogan is not exactly a friend of democracy or human rights. I worry what will happen if they fail. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathryn Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 Yes. I worry about that far more than if they succeed. Erdogan is on his way to becoming a dictator. A failed coup will cement that. My thoughts exactly. I think a lot of people in America who don't know anything about Turkey see "military coup" and think right-wing/conservative takeover. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 we're talking about it here http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/618113-turkish-attempted-military-coup-happening-right-now/?p=7105728 Yes, but this it is a private social group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saddlemomma Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 The Drudge Report has quite a lot of info on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausmumof3 Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 It looks like a failed attempt. Not all coup attempts are successful, thankfully! I was in high school when we had one like that in Spain. It was unnerving but democracy won. Not necessarily the case in turkey as I believe the govt have a history of eroding democratic rights. So the military could be attempting to reinstate them. Possibly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanaqui Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 Wel, this is unexpected news. http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/16/world/europe/military-attempts-coup-in-turkey-prime-minister-says.html?_r=0 Twitter users are way out ahead of the news outlets but harder to tell fact from fiction there. Not really. A Turkish friend was telling me not that long ago that the ongoing situation in Turkey was unnerving precisely because the military hadn't stepped in and told Erdogan where he could go and what he could do with himself once he was there. And he hasn't been getting better since then either. (She also corrected my pronunciation. Apparently it's ErdoÄŸan, and the ÄŸ does not mean /g/ (the sound in goal) as it does in English.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanaqui Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 I worry what will happen if they fail. Heads will roll. Perhaps not quite literally, but the effect will be more or less the same in the end. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peach Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 Here is the Al Jazeera live feed. Erdogan is back in Istanbul and is speaking now. https://www.facebook.com/aljazeera/videos/vb.7382473689/10154473961533690/?type=2&theater 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanaqui Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 Here is the Al Jazeera live feed. Erdogan is back in Istanbul and is speaking now. That can't be good. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 What a mess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 One friend posted on FB something along the lines of... Coups are bad for democracy. On the other hand, Erdogan is bad for democracy. I think that rather summed it up. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaKinVA Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 "Situation in Turkey for U.S. Military: Force Protection Condition Delta. For perspective, that was the condition ordered following 9/11." As an aside, dependents and non-military were evacuated this past spring due to deteriorating situations there (it was on spring break -- a family was here in Naples and was not able to return home to get things). ISIS (et. al.) have been targeting the US base there. Travel to Turkey (even for stop-overs/layovers) not advised. My dh was supposed to go there in 2 weeks to inspect ships. Our guess is that this will be canceled (like the last trip). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Closeacademy Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 As an aside, dependents and non-military were evacuated this past spring due to deteriorating situations there (it was on spring break -- a family was here in Naples and was not able to return home to get things). ISIS (et. al.) have been targeting the US base there. Travel to Turkey (even for stop-overs/layovers) not advised. My dh was supposed to go there in 2 weeks to inspect ships. Our guess is that this will be canceled (like the last trip). This is interesting and disturbing. I know a girl who was studying through the US state department and she just came home exactly a week before the bombing at the airport a few weeks ago. I wonder why they didn't evacuate the high school exchange students studying Turkish but did evacuate everyone else? Scary stuff there. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 (edited) Wow, that was over quickly. I will be watching the news later today to see exactly what that means. I have lived through 3 coups, two in Kenya and 1 in Liberia. They were very bloody and dangerous and didn't end nearly as fast. This has me more concerned for the people of Turkey. Edited July 16, 2016 by DawnM 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SproutMamaK Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 I'm also concerned about the coup in Turkey. Erdogan is now going to lock things down even more for the people. I'm not sure how that's possible, but I'm sure that's he'll find a way. How long with the people and press be able to say ANYTHING negative about him? I agree with the concern that this may all but cement him as a dictator. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanny Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 This is interesting and disturbing. I know a girl who was studying through the US state department and she just came home exactly a week before the bombing at the airport a few weeks ago. I wonder why they didn't evacuate the high school exchange students studying Turkish but did evacuate everyone else? Scary stuff there. U.S. Government employees, including U.S. Military, are under the control of the U.S. Government. Tourists, and other civilians who are overseas, are generally on their own and they must make their own decisions if there is a crisis. U.S. Citizens in Turkey were advised yesterday to "Stay inside and shelter in place". The son of one of my cousins and his family lived in Ankara for 2 or 3 years, while he was on assignment there. I think they moved back to the states in 2013 or 2014. Early in 2015, he had to go back to Ankara, for 2 or 3 weeks. After that trip he told his mother, "I never want to go back there!" Apparently, the Turkish military has a history of restoring democracy and freedom to the people of Turkey, that has been taken away from them by the President. Also, the Turkish military is friendly with the U.S. Military. Any U.S. Citizens in Turkey should stay inside and shelter in place. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrincessMommy Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 Yes, but this it is a private social group. but anyone can join from WTM. I joined when it first started and the conversations there have all been mature, informed, and insightful (as of the last time I was there). Of course, we haven't dipped our toes into murky politics of crock pots yet :lol: 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrincessMommy Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 One friend posted on FB something along the lines of... Coups are bad for democracy. On the other hand, Erdogan is bad for democracy. I think that rather summed it up. I heard on the news last night that the US Gov't backed Erdogan. That doesn't make me happy. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFwife Claire Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 I heard on the news last night that the US Gov't backed Erdogan. That doesn't make me happy. What?!? The military has always been our ally, not the Turkish government! Oh my goodness, I'm really ill now. Turkey has always sent military officers over here to get their advanced degrees at our military institutes (like the Air Force Institute of Technology at Wright-Patterson AFB in Ohio). My parents have had wonderful relationships with so many of these officers and their families. Single ones have lived for 18 months with my parents, and the married ones my dad helps the men with the grammar on their theses, and my mom teaches English to the wives and does social things with them. They're like grandparents for them. I know so many of these officers and their families. The older ones are probably ones involved, and the younger ones have been so worried about Erdogan and his policies. This is very, very bad. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausmumof3 Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 Things look nasty. erdogan has mentioned a possible return of the death penalty and separately called the coup a gift from God to cleanse the army. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mabelen Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 Things look nasty. erdogan has mentioned a possible return of the death penalty and separately called the coup a gift from God to cleanse the army. Oh dear! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted July 16, 2016 Author Share Posted July 16, 2016 (edited) Wow, that was over quickly. I will be watching the news later today to see exactly what that means. I have lived through 3 coups, two in Kenya and 1 in Liberia. They were very bloody and dangerous and didn't end nearly as fast. This has me more concerned for the people of Turkey. I expect a bloodbath. I'm also concerned about the coup in Turkey. Erdogan is now going to lock things down even more for the people. I'm not sure how that's possible, but I'm sure that's he'll find a way. How long with the people and press be able to say ANYTHING negative about him? I agree with the concern that this may all but cement him as a dictator. he probably see's it as a gift to further consolidate his power. ds was there several years ago on a class service trip (we came to hate turkey after that trip - the US state dept ended up involved in attempting to release the tens of thousands of dollars worth of computer equipment the gov't seized that students were donating to schools and hospitals), he didn't give me the details - but it was extremely clear to him at that time no one was to say anything to criticize Erdogan. I heard on the news last night that the US Gov't backed Erdogan. That doesn't make me happy. considering the things the US govt has been doing the last few years, I'm not the slightest bit surprised. I recall in 2009 in Honduras - the Honduran supreme court and congress removed their president (with the backing of the Honduran military) because he was trying to become dictator - the us gov't backed the would be dictator. Edited July 16, 2016 by gardenmom5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanny Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 The headline story about this on FoxNews.com as I write this post is that thousands of Turkish soldiers have been arrested. Erdogan is reasserting control now and soon the bloodbath will begin, as he transitions to a more Islamist regime, and cements his power as dictator. I watched an interview with John Bolton, that aired last night in the USA. I believe one of the things he said was that the high ranking U.S. trained military officers had already been purged, and the lower ranks are more faithful to Erdogan. It was very interesting. This has huge implications, not only for Turkey, but for the Middle East, Europe and the entire world. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanny Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 Turkey wants the USA to extradite the cleric from Pennsylvania to Turkey. This may cause huge problems, between the USA and Turkey. It will get probably get more interesting, as time goes on... http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/07/16/erdogan-calls-on-us-to-extradite-pennsylvania-based-cleric-after-failed-turkey-coup.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanaqui Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 I've seen some rumors that it may have been staged by Erdogan. Normally I'd roll my eyes, but... well, let's just say he's not on my list of top ten world leaders. (But these days, who is?) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted July 17, 2016 Author Share Posted July 17, 2016 I've seen some rumors that it may have been staged by Erdogan. Normally I'd roll my eyes, but... well, let's just say he's not on my list of top ten world leaders. (But these days, who is?) there are now reports out he's having secular judges arrested. troop who were involved - thought they were doing an exercise. he's gleefully cracking down. it seems there is more evidence this was staged as an excuse for him to do a power grab. and in march - he made accusations the military was planning a coup - charges the military denied. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasider Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2016/07/16/turkeys-last-hope-dies.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hornblower Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 I heard on the news last night that the US Gov't backed Erdogan. That doesn't make me happy. What?!? The military has always been our ally, not the Turkish government! He was democratically elected, and regardless of his policies after, he remains very popular. I dislike religious fundamentalism and the crackdown on freedom of expression but I think it's increasingly untenable for us to support military coups just because we don't like whom the people there chose. It seems the US played that game so many times (esp in Central and South America) and honestly I'd not like to see that repeated. & the idea that we're making alliances with military factions and not the government would be extremely troubling to me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 (edited) He was democratically elected, and regardless of his policies after, he remains very popular. I dislike religious fundamentalism and the crackdown on freedom of expression but I think it's increasingly untenable for us to support military coups just because we don't like whom the people there chose. It seems the US played that game so many times (esp in Central and South America) and honestly I'd not like to see that repeated. & the idea that we're making alliances with military factions and not the government would be extremely troubling to me. I've long claimed the USA govt is full of crap when it says it cares about democracy outside our borders. The only time I've ever seen our govt care about democracy in other countries is when it's a handy excuse to force someone we think will support our best financial or political control in the region - then and only then we want the people to "democraticly" select that person and if they don't, well we will go behind the scenes to fix that for them. Not a fan of the policy. Edited July 17, 2016 by Murphy101 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted July 17, 2016 Author Share Posted July 17, 2016 Yeah, plenty of dictators-in-training have some popularity - generally from the part of the population they're not purging. It's extremely troubling that he is purging the judiciary, imo. I agree that coups are not the answer, but in that case, the world had better find another answer to an increasingly authoritarian state under which innocent people suffer. and prosecutors, and journalists, and the numbers are growing. anyone who has publicly spoken against him should consider themselves in danger. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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