ThursdayNext Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Please don't quote the whole post, I may delete so my son doesn't find this in a few years. This is hot button for me. I grew up poor. And we are working hard to get out of debt and fix up our house. It seems like my boys are more destructive than other kids. It's mostly the 5 year old, with the 3 year old following his lead. The boys left the minivan doors open in the rain today and thought it was hilarious that it was soaked. At other times they also "keyed" it with rocks, colored on surfaces on the inside, and ripped out some upholstery. He's intentionally broken doors and drawers of dressers. Broken a light fixture. Poured a gallon of water on the wood floor and let it sit here. Ripped cabinet door off hinges. Flooded the bathroom. Torn out every hook and towel rod in the house. Broken a doorknob. There are currently 4 holes in the wall waiting to be patched. We just can't afford all the repairs that keep on coming. He doesn't seem to break things when angry. It's just that he enjoys wrecking things. It was horrible at age 2 and 3. I thought things would be better now. The 5 year old is probably on the autism spectrum, high functioning. But maybe not. I don't know if this is at all related. Maybe I'm just a terrible parent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purplejackmama Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 What are the consequences when he does this? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegP Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 What help/interventions is he getting for his autism? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 You might consider testing because that is not behavior that even falls under normal boy stuff. You are NOT a terrible parent! You try hard but sometimes you need some outside help. Whoever does the testing will be able to help with ideas for behavior modification and possibly meds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justasque Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Give him things to take apart. Old appliances other people have discarded. Cut off the plugs and give a serious talk about electrical safety. Teach him how to unscrew things and use "brain over brawn" to decipher how to get things apart. Teach him more safety - wearing goggles, cutting away from the body, how to safely strip wires. Teach him how to not strip the screws. Help him power the motors, fans, and other things he finds using a 9V battery. Give him things to build - LEGO kits, IKEA furniture. Keep him busy with puzzles and brain teasers of epic proportions. My dad once gave two visiting destructive cousins a (wrecked) car to take apart. It was magical. Channel the energy and curious brain towards useful experiences and skills. Make sure there's an outlet for his urges, and be firm about what is off-limits. If your kid is asking "what happens if I...", and you feed that itch carefully, he could end up with a rewarding STEM career. (If this is part of an inability to control impulses, of course, there may be something else going on, which might be worth exploring.) 21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThursdayNext Posted June 30, 2016 Author Share Posted June 30, 2016 What help/interventions is he getting for his autism?The short story- nothing yet other than us reading up. At 2 & 3 he was not eligible for special needs preschool or other early interventions as he was functioning too well. He is enrolled in a social skills class in the fall. The long story: We went to an evaluation when he was 2 based on answers to a screening at the pediatrician. We did 2 full days of them videoing the 2 of us interacting, them talking to him, mountains of forms. At that time we got a diagnosis of PDD-NOS. Then in 2 more years the next evaluation came out not on the spectrum. At that point they said he had social delays, but did not meet criteria. Just last month I called with concerns and went in. They did a shorter, 2 hr evaluation. They said he is most likely on the spectrum, but we will need to go somewhere to get an official diagnosis. The whole time it has seemed rather borderline. Like where is that edge of neurotypical or not? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 (edited) You are not a terrible parent. This is not normal behavior, even for boys this age. But how do they find so much unsupervised time to do so much damage? Ripping out car uphostery is not a matter of seconds. If they cannot control their behavior, they cannot be left usupervised.at.all. Not just because of property damage, but also because, if they do stuff like this, they can also do stuff where they can get hurt. They might need tighter supervision than other kids that age. But this said, it would not have occurred to me rely on my neurotypical 5 y/o to make sure the car door is closed in heavy rain - I'd think double checking this kind of stuff is still a task for the parent. Kids don't think far enough to see how bad the consequences are. What consequences happen when they do this? Edited June 30, 2016 by regentrude 30 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cave canem Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 I am so sorry. That sounds so difficult for you. I don't have any advice to offer. This does not sound like your fault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
73349 Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 (edited) While you're working on eval stuff, I'd supervise him like a 1yo. He may need to be a lot closer to you than your oldest was at that age. Rather than thinking of him as destructive, try framing it as "impulsive (with unfortunate results)." It sounds like he is not intentionally ruining things to make you mad or cost you money. Edited June 30, 2016 by whitehawk 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelingChris Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 I agree what consequences are you giving? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innisfree Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 (edited) Google "autism and breaking things". The sensation of the tension in the object when it is at breaking point can satisfy an emotional and/or sensory need for some kids. It may be a manifestation of his stress. Of course, impulse control issues could also be in play. I'd keep going with evaluations. In the mean time, could you assemble a box of things he is encouraged to break, disassemble, and otherwise play with? Cans, boxes, or plastic bottles to squish or tear apart, newspapers to shred, old appliances from yard sales or thrift shops to do with as he pleases. Actively encourage him to destroy approved items every day, and see if you can head off unapproved destruction. Heavy physical outdoor activity might also help. Could you get a big sand pile and encourage play there? Or let him dig a hole to China? Eta: yes, you'll need to supervise him more closely. He is not ready to be left alone. Edited June 30, 2016 by Innisfree 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty ethel rackham Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Give him things to take apart. Old appliances other people have discarded. Cut off the plugs and give a serious talk about electrical safety. Teach him how to unscrew things and use "brain over brawn" to decipher how to get things apart. Teach him more safety - wearing goggles, cutting away from the body, how to safely strip wires. Teach him how to not strip the screws. Help him power the motors, fans, and other things he finds using a 9V battery. Give him things to build - LEGO kits, IKEA furniture. Keep him busy with puzzles and brain teasers of epic proportions. My dad once gave two visiting destructive cousins a (wrecked) car to take apart. It was magical. Channel the energy and curious brain towards useful experiences and skills. Make sure there's an outlet for his urges, and be firm about what is off-limits. If your kid is asking "what happens if I...", and you feed that itch carefully, he could end up with a rewarding STEM career. (If this is part of an inability to control impulses, of course, there may be something else going on, which might be worth exploring.) This is great advice. BUT, I would not do any of this without direct supervision. For the sake of their own safety and the safety of other belongings. These things can simply be more effective tools for destruction of property. You are not a terrible parent. This is not normal behavior, even for boys this age. But how do they find so much unsupervised time to do so much damage? Ripping out car uphostery is not a matter of seconds. If they cannot control their behavior, they cannot be left usupervised.at.all. Not just because of property damage, but also because, if they do stuff like this, they can also do stuff where they can get hurt. They might need tighter supervision than other kids that age. But this said, it would not have occurred to me rely on my neurotypical 5 y/o to make sure the car door is closed in heavy rain - I'd think double checking this kind of stuff is still a task for the parent. Kids don't think far enough to see how bad the consequences are. What consequences happen when they do this? :iagree: 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 (edited) Oh honey, I've raised six rambunctious boys. And while, yes, things do break, it has been nothing like what you've described. If you suspect he's on the spectrum, please get him officially diagnosed. Early intervention makes a world of difference. Edited June 30, 2016 by Kinsa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 I know several people asked about consequences, but in my experience with my spectrum kid consequences did absolutely nothing. He didn't understand cause and effect, so it was pointless. 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in Australia Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 I agree with closer supervision. Like never leave him in a room without supervision ever. Yes it can be done. That is how we parent our foster twins. As well as encouraging his energy to more productive activities 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThursdayNext Posted June 30, 2016 Author Share Posted June 30, 2016 What are the consequences when he does this? I've yet to find an effective consequence for the 5 year old. Spanking, scolding, yelling do not work. Helping clean up, doing extra jobs, losing his toys when he breaks them does not work. Talking and reasoning does not work. Getting him to admit a behavior is wrong and to say he won't do it again helps. But he is stubborn, and will usually say "Maybe I will (bite my brother, mix dog food with cat litter, etc) again." Crazy as it sounds, right now we are having him write lines. And draw a picture to go with it. Talking to him, my script when I'm calm enough to deliver it is to talk about how we want our home to be. "Do you want this to be a house where everybody yells, or talks gently? Etc etc. You are part of our family, and need to do your part by speaking gently to make this a happy peaceful home." This might not be making much immediate difference. But he at least AGREES with it, which feels like progress. Working on our relationship and trying to connect helps some, but not enough. Long walks in the woods help some. Rotating toys and pulling out fresh ones gives him something to do other than wreck the house, but it's not enough. Being gone from the house all day helps some, but makes me crazy in other ways. I'm not good at constant vigilance, and if I had to watch my kid every second, I should have had just one kid. If anyone has the miracle answer, don't hold out on me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 (edited) More sensory play, and maybe meds for adhd if diagnosed. I sometimes have dumb, destructive ideas, but have the impulse control to stop myself. He may not. For example, I'm the kid that idiotically tested a pocket knife on her thumb to see if it was sharp. It was. I felt like an idiot going to my camp leader for a band aid. OBVIOUSLY you don't test sharp object on skin,but I didn't think of that till it was too late. Another time I nearly tested a dremel tool on the formica counter to see if the battery was fully charged. Stopped myself JUST in time. And I was an adult that time! Edited June 30, 2016 by ktgrok 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wendyroo Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 My oldest (7) has autism and he can be very violent and destructive. Bottom line, I have to fully supervise him at all times. He simply has zero impulse/self control, so it is not a matter of explaining or rationalizing or disciplining or incentivizing appropriate behavior. He cannot stop himself so I have to be right there to do it for him. Hopefully this will gradually improve with age and effective medications, but he will never be neurotypical, so it is important for me to throw the "he should be able to's" out the window and parent him as he is. Having a kid like this is expensive and frustrating and disheartening and just plain not fair for the rest of the family. But it is what it is. Wendy 18 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freesia Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Remember with constant supervision, he can come with you. You don't always have to go where he wants to be. So, if you need to do the laundry, he comes. If you are cooking dinner, he is there. And, yes, continue with the evaluations. 19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThursdayNext Posted June 30, 2016 Author Share Posted June 30, 2016 But how do they find so much unsupervised time to do so much damage? Ripping out car uphostery is not a matter of seconds. If they cannot control their behavior, they cannot be left usupervised.at.all. ? The car upholstery was on a road trip with a loud audiobook. I had my eyes on the road. I am really the worst at trying to never leave them alone. I intend to stick with them. But in 20 min when I get dressed, they've got a whole tube of toothpaste squeezed over the bathroom, the towel rod ripped out of the wall, the toilet paper roll in the toilet, and the full soap dispenser is now empty. If I have to be with them every second from 6:30am to 10:00pm I will have completely lost my mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wendyroo Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 I know several people asked about consequences, but in my experience with my spectrum kid consequences did absolutely nothing. He didn't understand cause and effect, so it was pointless. :iagree: :iagree: :iagree: My son's psychiatry team encourages me to implement calm reasonable consequences, but we all acknowledge that they are for the victims and to set a good example for all the younger siblings who are watching. None of us has any expectation that the consequences will change Peter's behavior at all. Peter's brain is mis-wired in such a way that he cannot stop himself from acting in extremely maladaptive ways. The exact same maladaptive ways that he has behaved hundreds of times and gotten consequences for hundreds of time - in fact, the more often he does them, the stronger those neural connections get and the more likely he will do them again. In some cases consequences simply do not work. Wendy 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 . If I have to be with them every second from 6:30am to 10:00pm I will have completely lost my mind. I understand. that is hardly possible. Are you a single parent? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThursdayNext Posted June 30, 2016 Author Share Posted June 30, 2016 Remember with constant supervision, he can come with you. You don't always have to go where he wants to be. So, if you need to do the laundry, he comes. If you are cooking dinner, he is there. And, yes, continue with the evaluations. Barring handcuffs, how do you make that happen? I'm picturing the hour long battle to get him to go to the laundry closet with me. Also, although I'm crazy right now, it really is not nonstop destruction like when he was 2. He can read for hours, play Legos and trains, hunt for buried treasure in the backyard. Do you interrupt any fun activity because you never know when he might start breaking a hole in all the window screens as a break from his track layouts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wendyroo Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 The car upholstery was on a road trip with a loud audiobook. I had my eyes on the road. I am really the worst at trying to never leave them alone. I intend to stick with them. But in 20 min when I get dressed, they've got a whole tube of toothpaste squeezed over the bathroom, the towel rod ripped out of the wall, the toilet paper roll in the toilet, and the full soap dispenser is now empty. If I have to be with them every second from 6:30am to 10:00pm I will have completely lost my mind. A couple tactics I use for self-preservation... 1 - I get up way earlier than the kids. I get up between 4:30 and 5am in order to get as much done as possible before I am on supervising duty. The children are not allowed out of their rooms (other than bathroom visits) until 7am. 2 - Peter is my buddy most of the morning. He is at my hip so I can act as his impulse control and stop the destruction and violence before it starts. We do chores, school, outings, baby care and play with the other kids all with him within arm's reach. 3 - Everyone naps or rests after lunch for 2 hours. This is non-negotiable. Peter plays/reads/draws in his Peter-proof room. Wendy 14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freesia Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 Barring handcuffs, how do you make that happen? I'm picturing the hour long battle to get him to go to the laundry closet with me. Also, although I'm crazy right now, it really is not nonstop destruction like when he was 2. He can read for hours, play Legos and trains, hunt for buried treasure in the backyard. Do you interrupt any fun activity because you never know when he might start breaking a hole in all the window screens as a break from his track layouts? Well, yes, I guess I do think it should just happen. He's old enough for you to say, "You made a poor choice by ripping the towel rack off the bathroom wall, tomorrow you need to be my shadow and be near me all day." I would wait out any tantrums and (hopefully calmly) hold out my hand for him to come with. There would also be consequences for not coming when I asked--but they work with my children. I wouldn't always interrupt play, if there is something I can do while he plays well. But I might decide--he can play for x amount of time and then it's chore time. I'd let him know that, too. You might also try to notice is there is an "amount" of time he can play nicely before getting into trouble. One boy on the spectrum that ds played with when young, could last 1 1/2 hours on a playdate before he melted down and started hurting ds. Once I noticed that, we could have playdates. Also--is he up from 6:30-10???? Could he be radically exhausted? Most 5 year olds sleep at least 10 hours. We also do a quiet time mid-day. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epicurean Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 (edited) A five year old needs between 10 and 12 hours of sleep per day. If he's getting less, his cortisol levels are raised and he is essentially living in a constant sleep deprived state, which can increase aggression and other unwanted behaviors. It looks like he's missing out on around 2.5 hours of sleep every night. I would start by re-training his sleep habits. Unlike in-the-moment misbehavior, that is something you have much more control over. I'd make bedtime 8 PM and establish a rule that he isn't to leave his bed until 7 AM (you can use one of those color changing clocks that turn green when it's okay to get up). His sleep habits won't change instantly, but remember that they are just habits--not some sort of star-aligned predisposition that can't be changed. Start by scaling bedtime back in fifteen minute increments until you reach 8 PM. While it won't be a panacea, getting a sufficient amount of sleep (and the side effect of giving you much needed downtime in the evenings to recharge) may go a long way to having more peaceful days. Edited July 1, 2016 by Epicurean 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zinnia Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 My children can be incredibly destructive, and when there are several of them together, it's even worse for us. Mine are 2 years apart. The year that my boys were 1, 3, and 5 was very, very hard. My oldest had some markers at younger ages for ASD, but always borderline, and now at 9, those markers have devolved into quirks that don't seem to be a problem. But at 5? He was still destroying a lot of stuff, a lot of the time. What worked for us was a lot tighter supervision, a lot of talking about cause and effect (about everything, in general, about permanence...it was just a common topic almost daily for a while), and for him specifically, we gave him an outlet for physical release. This child struggled with tantrums for a long time. The destroying stuff was separate and intertwined with the tantrums, if that makes sense. Sometimes, he would tantrum and destroy, but it seemed as if they were two separate things. But both of those things were just all about intense physical feelings. At age 5, we had that kid in several sports. One spring, he was on swim team (daily 1 hour practice), a twice weekly running club (1 hour running laps), played baseball, and did a low-key (but intensely physical) soccer school twice a week. We were super busy that spring, but I saw immediate results. He became so much more calm and less destructive. And less tantrum-y. We didn't keep up that level of activity (who could?), but we were able to balance better what he needed, and he does still maintain a pretty active physical, exercise life. If things get squirrely, I take him to the pool, and he goes down the slide nonstop for a couple of hours. It's like magic how it makes his body feel. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in Australia Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 (edited) ThIs is how it works in my household. I get up at 5.30 am to milk the cow. Twins wake up at 6 am. They are noisy so I assist them to get dressed and we go for an hour walk. Them in the pram. Note it is winter here and still dark. Dh supervises breakfast so I can have a shower. We do two hours of therapy then Twins have to be in whatever room I am in for the rest of the day. They can play outside in the secure play area and I can see them constantly from the kitchen window. Straight after lunch they have a 1 1/2 hour nap ( really play quietly in room) . Afternoon continue on the same as morning. As soon as dinner is over we start the bedtime routine. They are in bed by7 pm. Twins are not on the spectrum, but they have has sever trauma and have difficulty regulating emotions etc. damaging behaviour is punished by either having to sit on a chair near me until they have calmed down. Or if it is escalating having to hold my hand for a while. When they are holding my hand I do not engage with them. We have had significant reduction in uwanted behaviour. Edited July 1, 2016 by Melissa in Australia 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 ThIs is how it works in my household. I get up at 5.30 am to milk the cow. Twins wake up at 6 am. They are noisy so I assist them to get dressed and we go for an hour walk. Them in the pram. Note it is winter here and still dark. Dh supervises breakfast so I can have a shower. We do two hours of therapy then Twins have to be in whatever room I am in for the rest of the day. They can play outside in the secure play area and I can see them constantly from the kitchen window. Straight after lunch they have a 1 1/2 hour nap ( really play quietly in room) . Afternoon continue on the same as morning. As soon as dinner is over we start the bedtime routine. They are inbred by7 pm. Twins are not on the spectrum, but they have has sever trauma and have difficulty regulating emotions etc. damaging behaviour is punished by either having to sit on a chair near me until they have calmed down. Or if it is escalating having to hold my hand for a while. When they are holding my hand I do not engage with them. We have had significant reduction in uwanted behaviour. Melissa, I am just curious about this, but do they nap/have quiet time in the same room? Because, if yes, then I am wondering if you had work to do in order to not have them egg one another on. I remember when they first came into your family and it sounds like you have helped them make wonderful progress. My hat is off to you. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in Australia Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 Quill They do nap in the same room. It was the one and only thing that they had already been trained to do. I am guessing a throwback from being kept in a cot 24/7 for their first 13 months. They havemadesuch amazing progress that they are like different kids. Unbelievably they are almost normal now. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandra Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 I am so sorry for what you are going through. I can't speak for where you live, of course, but in my county there are a number of government services, both ongoing and emergency that offer help. I have never had to use these services myself, thank goodness, but I have heard presentations about them. Respite care is one service. You mentioned evaluations. The same kids can get different diagnoses from different doctors. I agree with those who suggest pursuing further testing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AddlepatedMonkeyMama Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 You have my sincere sympathy. We nicknamed our son "Baby Destructo" because of the never-ending list of things he broke or damaged. He was (and still is) extremely impulsive, but--finally!--not destructive at age 12. Consequences rarely had any effect and he kept finding new kinds of trouble anyways. He really did require near constant supervision and awareness on my part about not giving him access to things that could be destroyed or used to damage other things. I made my husband aware that I could not get much done around the house when he wasn't home to supervise the kids and I took the time to shower and dress before he left for work. I'm sorry I don't have any miracle advice. It's hard and exhausting to have a kid that requires constant vigilance for 12 hours per day 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyLittleBears Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: I think if possible you should get a neuropsychological evaluation. If he is on the spectrum, he needs to be officially diagnosed so that you can access the services he needs. It's proven that the earlier you can get interventions, the more progress that can be made in a shorter amount of time. It will give you and him the tools you need for how to handle these behaviors. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storygirl Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 I agree with the other suggestions of seeking evaluations and keeping him with you all the time. I know it sounds impossible, but I did it with my children. My son did not tear things apart, but he would get into trouble without constant supervision. I showered at night, then got dressed in the morning while DH was still at home. DS would stay put while watching tv, but I didn't want to rely on screentime a lot. Twice a day the children would watch a 30-60 minute show while I made lunch and made dinner. If they played outside, I was outside with them. If they played in the basement play room, I was in the play room with them. Parenting was a full time job, and all else went on the back burner. I did housecleaning on the weekend when DH was home. I did laundry in bits and pieces and would take the basket with me to whatever room they were in, in order to fold it there. When I put the laundry away, they would go to the bedroom with me. There were times that I took them to the bathroom with me. They were simply with me all the time, because trouble would quickly brew if they were out of my sight. Because we were homeschoolers, I had a schedule of activities that we would do together, along with free play time that would always take place in my presence. We've always had early bedtime for the kids, so, depending on the age, they were in bed by 8. DH would get home from work around 6, so he was there to help after dinner with baths and our bedtime reading. Our days were very structured. It was exhausting, but it's what we needed to do. Our kids were all close in age, so I could make a pattern to our days that mostly suited everyone's needs. (DS is close to the spectrum, as well, by the way, and has ADHD). Take care of yourself, because you are probably exhausted and discouraged. Create a set schedule for your day (spectrum kids often thrive with a lot of structure), and tighten up the supervision. It won't be easy, but hopefully it will make things easier in the long run. :grouphug: 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 Give him things to take apart. Old appliances other people have discarded. Cut off the plugs and give a serious talk about electrical safety. Teach him how to unscrew things and use "brain over brawn" to decipher how to get things apart. Teach him more safety - wearing goggles, cutting away from the body, how to safely strip wires. Teach him how to not strip the screws. Help him power the motors, fans, and other things he finds using a 9V battery. Give him things to build - LEGO kits, IKEA furniture. Keep him busy with puzzles and brain teasers of epic proportions. My dad once gave two visiting destructive cousins a (wrecked) car to take apart. It was magical. Channel the energy and curious brain towards useful experiences and skills. Make sure there's an outlet for his urges, and be firm about what is off-limits. If your kid is asking "what happens if I...", and you feed that itch carefully, he could end up with a rewarding STEM career. (If this is part of an inability to control impulses, of course, there may be something else going on, which might be worth exploring.) This. At least, this is what has worked with my son. He is (was) definitely more on the destructive side. When he was 5, he had gouged out a mural in his bedroom drywall. Seriously - it was bad. For him, it wasn't an anger or disobedience issue (I mean, we never specifically said hey, don't dig holes in your bedroom wall) it was curiosity. We started then giving him tons of stuff to take apart - real, adult stuff/tools. Best thing *we* ever did. Not saying it would work for everyone, but we have to be extremely literal and up front with this child, and things have been going so much better since. Also, I'd have your son help "fix" things to see the consequences - hey, it is a pain to fill in wall holes and repaint. Hey, it is a lot of work to fix doors. He's obviously not going to understand the financial cost, but you can make him see there is a "cost". I don't know your kiddo, but these are the kinds of things that have helped here. Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Strawberry Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 (edited) Give him things to take apart. Old appliances other people have discarded. Cut off the plugs and give a serious talk about electrical safety. Teach him how to unscrew things and use "brain over brawn" to decipher how to get things apart. Teach him more safety - wearing goggles, cutting away from the body, how to safely strip wires. Teach him how to not strip the screws. Help him power the motors, fans, and other things he finds using a 9V battery. Give him things to build - LEGO kits, IKEA furniture. Keep him busy with puzzles and brain teasers of epic proportions. My dad once gave two visiting destructive cousins a (wrecked) car to take apart. It was magical. Channel the energy and curious brain towards useful experiences and skills. Make sure there's an outlet for his urges, and be firm about what is off-limits. If your kid is asking "what happens if I...", and you feed that itch carefully, he could end up with a rewarding STEM career. (If this is part of an inability to control impulses, of course, there may be something else going on, which might be worth exploring.) we have found that our evil genius needs to be constantly occupied. I mean, every minute of every day. If he has a free moment with nothing intriguing to do, he will dismantle something. THe tv is not adequate distraction for him. He can still dismantle the furniture while watching Phineas and Ferb. In Gem's case, real work and real tools are the key. I made him a box of boards, tack nails, 4oz hammer, short screw driver, pocket level, etc that he could use to build all he wanted. He has two saws and tree stumps (he helped clear the trees) that he can work on. He cooks with me. He has a lengthy list of meaningful chores. He has a stack of workbooks that he can access anytime he wants to exercise his brain. Remember with constant supervision, he can come with you. You don't always have to go where he wants to be. So, if you need to do the laundry, he comes. If you are cooking dinner, he is there. And, yes, continue with the evaluations. When we were in this stage, they moved from room to room with me. Most of the time, they just sat quietly on the floor and watched me do whatever boring grownup task I needed to do, including putting my feet up and reading some Buzzfeed. I think they just needed the closeness and security of having me Right THere. Barring handcuffs, how do you make that happen? I'm picturing the hour long battle to get him to go to the laundry closet with me. Also, although I'm crazy right now, it really is not nonstop destruction like when he was 2. He can read for hours, play Legos and trains, hunt for buried treasure in the backyard. Do you interrupt any fun activity because you never know when he might start breaking a hole in all the window screens as a break from his track layouts? Yes, I would absolutely interrupt, because at least at first, you don't know when that time bomb is going to go off. I have always been surprised how willing my tots are to drop what they are doing and follow me wherever I go. I think if you just expect them to do it, they probably will. Make it clear that this is what is happening, and that's that. As a PP mentioned, too, you can bring your work to them. I fold laundry in the living room. put them at the table with a task while you do dishes. Take them outside with you. Whatever needs to be done, they can go with you to do it. This phase is SO hard and SO LONG. I know. Mine is 7 and I can see some light at the end of the tunnel. Sometimes. Hang in there. It will get better. Someday. Edit: FWIW, I've had Gem evaluated twice and he in not on the spectrum at all. Two of my other kids are, but he isn't. THat always comes up, but for us it wasn't the answer. He did have food allergies and gut problems. He still does. I can definitely see a correlation with his behavior. You might want to look into that possibility. Edited July 1, 2016 by Desert Strawberry 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zinnia Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 ^^This reminded me that my son had this huge swath of wall in his room where he just picked the plaster off. Crazy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TechWife Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 (edited) Well, yes, I guess I do think it should just happen. He's old enough for you to say, "You made a poor choice by ripping the towel rack off the bathroom wall, tomorrow you need to be my shadow and be near me all day." I would wait out any tantrums and (hopefully calmly) hold out my hand for him to come with. There would also be consequences for not coming when I asked--but they work with my children. I wouldn't always interrupt play, if there is something I can do while he plays well. But I might decide--he can play for x amount of time and then it's chore time. I'd let him know that, too. You might also try to notice is there is an "amount" of time he can play nicely before getting into trouble. One boy on the spectrum that ds played with when young, could last 1 1/2 hours on a playdate before he melted down and started hurting ds. Once I noticed that, we could have playdates. Also--is he up from 6:30-10???? Could he be radically exhausted? Most 5 year olds sleep at least 10 hours. We also do a quiet time mid-day. The child being with mom should not be framed as a punishment. It is simply a necessity of life at this point. The family will need to work to develop the habit of making sure he is directly supervised at all times, but it is not punishment, it's a way of life. Framing it as a punishment implies that the child has choices, when in fact, his behavior is a developmental issue, not a choice. In the same way you wouldn't frame a wheelchair as a punishment for a child who cannot walk, you shouldn't frame supervision as a punishment for a child with developmental issues. Ever. Edited July 1, 2016 by TechWife 16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoPlaceLikeHome Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 The car upholstery was on a road trip with a loud audiobook. I had my eyes on the road. I am really the worst at trying to never leave them alone. I intend to stick with them. But in 20 min when I get dressed, they've got a whole tube of toothpaste squeezed over the bathroom, the towel rod ripped out of the wall, the toilet paper roll in the toilet, and the full soap dispenser is now empty. If I have to be with them every second from 6:30am to 10:00pm I will have completely lost my mind. :grouphug: I know it is hard but constant supervision is really needed IMHO and consequences even if possibly on the spectrum. Is your partner able to relieve you for at least an hour or two every evening? Can you get up and dressed before they get up and dressed? We always used a family room with different activities/toys/books available for ds and amenities for me. I also had stuff available to take along with us and in the kitchen. Activity boards with different locks, zippers, etc might be useful. Play dough, puzzles, rubric cubes, crayons, immersion reading, educational TV shows, construction paper, craft projects might be useful. A bouncy seat for seat work which can be placed on top of a chair. Also, wear them out several times a day with lots of exercise like Wii Fit running/jogging which may help. Avoid sugar, junk food too, artificial dyes, juices. In essence, he goes wherever you go. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 The child being with mom should not be framed as a punishment. It is simply a necessity of life at this point. The family will need to work to develop the habit of making sure he is directly supervised at all times, but it is not punishment, it's a way of life. Framing it as a punishment implies that the child has choices, when in fact, his behavior is a developmental issue, not a choice. In the same way you wouldn't frame a wheelchair as a punishment for a child who cannot walk, you shouldn't frame supervision as a punish,ENT for a child with developmental issues. Ever. Yes, I agree with this. My youngest was one who needed direct supervision and interaction for most of his waking hours. I had two different evaluations done before he was four years old because his behavior was so baffling to me. He wasn't destructive but he was extremely inflexible and had raging tantrums over the most innocuous things. His bedtime and naptime routines had to be explicitly outlined and followed with military precision. This was not a kid who could take a surprise or sudden change of plans. I did all my necessary "me" time when he was still asleep in the morning, during naptimes, when he was asleep for the night, or when DH was on stand-by. I grocery shopped at 10pm. When I went to the bathroom, he came with me. It wasn't jolly good fun but it was the best way to head trouble off at the pass. Also, i know this isn't possible for everyone, but getting a trampoline in the yard was literally the BEST purchase we ever made for this child. He jumps multiple times a day and has done this since he could barely toddle. He absolutely *needs* that outlet. He is a very pleasant kid now and I have had no issues with his behavior for several years. By the time he was five or six, he didn't tantrum any more. He is still a kid who likes to know what the "plan" is; still needs a lot of physical exercise, and still benefits from direct interaction. He just knows how to behave in a civilized manner now, lol. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TechWife Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 OP - The PPD-NOS diagnosis should qualify him for some OT. This may or may not be available to him through early intervention in your area. If he doesn't qualify for it, can you find the financial resources to do it privately? Even just a few sessions with an OT working on sensory issues would be helpful as you can watch and learn and implement the ideas at home. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PinkyandtheBrains. Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 The child being with mom should not be framed as a punishment. It is simply a necessity of life at this point. The family will need to work to develop the habit of making sure he is directly supervised at all times, but it is not punishment, it's a way of life. Framing it as a punishment implies that the child has choices, when in fact, his behavior is a developmental issue, not a choice. In the same way you wouldn't frame a wheelchair as a punishment for a child who cannot walk, you shouldn't frame supervision as a punishment for a child with developmental issues. Ever. Agreeing with this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandra Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 I wanted to link you to services avsilable in my state, in the hope that you can find something similar where you are. http://www.performcarenj.org The first page that comes up is not helpful, so Click on the menu, then on families Lots of services for families, including 24/7 emergency visit to your home, if you request. Reading between the lines of your first post, it sounds as though money may be an issue. (Well, when isn't it, lol?) Also you sound as though you are at the end of your rope -- you are not mentioning nearby relatives who could help, for example. It sounds as though you could use more adult assistance. Seeking out services may be one way to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wendyroo Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 The child being with mom should not be framed as a punishment. It is simply a necessity of life at this point. The family will need to work to develop the habit of making sure he is directly supervised at all times, but it is not punishment, it's a way of life. Framing it as a punishment implies that the child has choices, when in fact, his behavior is a developmental issue, not a choice. In the same way you wouldn't frame a wheelchair as a punishment for a child who cannot walk, you shouldn't frame supervision as a punish,ENT for a child with developmental issues. Ever. This. Plus, around here, at least, being my buddy is a coveted position. It means lots of attention and praise. For Peter it means not constantly "failing" and frustrating and disappointing people. Being my buddy is a positive, feel-good experience for him as opposed to being a violent, destructive, ticking time bomb when he is on his own. My biggest issue is balancing Peter's need to be my buddy with the other kids' desires to be my buddy. Normally this plays out as Peter being my buddy M-F and the younger boys each getting to be my buddy one weekend day when Peter can be DH's buddy. Wendy 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoobie Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 I know several people asked about consequences, but in my experience with my spectrum kid consequences did absolutely nothing. He didn't understand cause and effect, so it was pointless. I agree. Consequences won't help. Constant supervision to keep him from making destructive choices is the only thing at this age. There's a lot of controversy over "tomato staking," but I'm not advocating the whacking with wooden spoons type. Just the never 2 feet away from you type. Especially with a younger child who could be hurt by the destruction. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supertechmom Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 I agree with tomato staking. Or at least my idea of it which was the child never left arm's reach and basically did everything you did. I didn't know until recent threads that method involved whackiness. I folded clothes, he folded. I baked, he baked. And yea it was difficult and long and made every task way more complicated. But he stopped being destructive. We also gave him lots of things to tear apart. We quickly advanced to where he could stand at the table (the child never sat) and take stuff apart while I cooked. I kept him busy. Multiplication was learned by throwing numbers on the floor and jumping to the answer. No written work. Everything was oral well into 3rd grade. He read upside down hanging off the couch. He was never out of sight so at any moment I could stop him before he started. I could tell by his face when he was going to start trouble. I had him dig holes in the yard. He dug one hole deep enough he had to create steps to get out of it and then that created the need for a rope which created a need for a way to hang said rope which spun off in how to dig holes and check for oxygen and then he tunneled around the yard. Which then caused Dad to build with him a contraption to pull buckets up out of the hole and move them around to the next hole. I remember entire days spent to drawing designs so Dad could see what he wanted. It was funny to me because Dad was just as exhausted and was like whatever will give me one moment of peace, I'll do. I also snuck out at night and buried all sorts of wacky crap for him to find. Chicken bones, little bottles, wood chests, fake coins, anything that kept him digging!!!! A large part of the backyard was dedicated to this for nearly 2 years!!!! I bought hotwheel cars by the hundreds (seriously we had over 300) and he buried them, dug them up, painted them, tore apart, rebuilt them, flooded them. He made massive sand buildings and then destroyed them in all sorts of ways. That hole in the yard saved my sanity more times than i can count. When he was ready to tackle something else, he tore everything down, filled in the holes and helped plant grass. That was another summer of work. I also dropped a lot of expectations that he would sit and be quiet and such. When we needed to go out in public and appear sane to the world, I made him do laps around the house,race his bike down the road and back, jumping jacks, push ups, you name it until he was visibly tired. Then we got in the car with a snack and went about our stuff. When his energy started to kick back up, I booked it home. Now no body would ever think ever that he had ever been so active! He still tears apart anything he can get his hands on but he also creates out of that and is studying to be an electrical engineer. The number one reason we homeschool is because I had to make learning fit him because making him fit learning would have been a disaster. I just had to adjust our life to set him up for success and not failure. And that meant doing things like no other. Other little kids sat a desk and colored neatly. Mine stood up and tore the paper into bits and then glued it down with happy pounds. Who needs colored pictures of bunnies? I had one of kind paper art! I taped tons of paper to the underside of the table and he would get under there and color. Anything not normal sparked his little mind. We made the agreement he could only color on the walls in designated places. I hung dry erase and chalkboard in those spots and praised him like crazy for his work. Off of that and he had the most unpleasant task of scrubbing it off the walls and then helping me paint it. We did lots of outdoor stuff like zoo, parks, and places where his behavior would be a success. Anytime he did stuff that required repair, he had to help and he got to listen to my babble on about how I couldn't do x,y,z because I only had so much time! Eventually, it sunk in that damaging things meant fixing things which meant less time to do fun things. It's hard. But it does end. One day you will be able to take your eyes off him. That moment is just not now. He has the best memories though and thinks his childhood was a blast! :laugh: :svengo: 22 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 I agree with tomato staking. Or at least my idea of it which was the child never left arm's reach and basically did everything you did. I didn't know until recent threads that method involved whackiness. I folded clothes, he folded. I baked, he baked. And yea it was difficult and long and made every task way more complicated. But he stopped being destructive. We also gave him lots of things to tear apart. We quickly advanced to where he could stand at the table (the child never sat) and take stuff apart while I cooked. I kept him busy. Multiplication was learned by throwing numbers on the floor and jumping to the answer. No written work. Everything was oral well into 3rd grade. He read upside down hanging off the couch. He was never out of sight so at any moment I could stop him before he started. I could tell by his face when he was going to start trouble. I had him dig holes in the yard. He dug one hole deep enough he had to create steps to get out of it and then that created the need for a rope which created a need for a way to hang said rope which spun off in how to dig holes and check for oxygen and then he tunneled around the yard. Which then caused Dad to build with him a contraption to pull buckets up out of the hole and move them around to the next hole. I remember entire days spent to drawing designs so Dad could see what he wanted. It was funny to me because Dad was just as exhausted and was like whatever will give me one moment of peace, I'll do. I also snuck out at night and buried all sorts of wacky crap for him to find. Chicken bones, little bottles, wood chests, fake coins, anything that kept him digging!!!! A large part of the backyard was dedicated to this for nearly 2 years!!!! I bought hotwheel cars by the hundreds (seriously we had over 300) and he buried them, dug them up, painted them, tore apart, rebuilt them, flooded them. He made massive sand buildings and then destroyed them in all sorts of ways. That hole in the yard saved my sanity more times than i can count. When he was ready to tackle something else, he tore everything down, filled in the holes and helped plant grass. That was another summer of work. I also dropped a lot of expectations that he would sit and be quiet and such. When we needed to go out in public and appear sane to the world, I made him do laps around the house,race his bike down the road and back, jumping jacks, push ups, you name it until he was visibly tired. Then we got in the car with a snack and went about our stuff. When his energy started to kick back up, I booked it home. Now no body would ever think ever that he had ever been so active! He still tears apart anything he can get his hands on but he also creates out of that and is studying to be an electrical engineer. The number one reason we homeschool is because I had to make learning fit him because making him fit learning would have been a disaster. I just had to adjust our life to set him up for success and not failure. And that meant doing things like no other. Other little kids sat a desk and colored neatly. Mine stood up and tore the paper into bits and then glued it down with happy pounds. Who needs colored pictures of bunnies? I had one of kind paper art! I taped tons of paper to the underside of the table and he would get under there and color. Anything not normal sparked his little mind. We made the agreement he could only color on the walls in designated places. I hung dry erase and chalkboard in those spots and praised him like crazy for his work. Off of that and he had the most unpleasant task of scrubbing it off the walls and then helping me paint it. We did lots of outdoor stuff like zoo, parks, and places where his behavior would be a success. Anytime he did stuff that required repair, he had to help and he got to listen to my babble on about how I couldn't do x,y,z because I only had so much time! Eventually, it sunk in that damaging things meant fixing things which meant less time to do fun things. It's hard. But it does end. One day you will be able to take your eyes off him. That moment is just not now. He has the best memories though and thinks his childhood was a blast! :laugh: :svengo: Your post is soooo inspiring! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abcmommy Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 I am not reading the whole thread but your kids need better supervision. They are not destructive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PinkyandtheBrains. Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 I agree with tomato staking. Or at least my idea of it which was the child never left arm's reach and basically did everything you did. I didn't know until recent threads that method involved whackiness. I folded clothes, he folded. I baked, he baked. And yea it was difficult and long and made every task way more complicated. But he stopped being destructive. We also gave him lots of things to tear apart. We quickly advanced to where he could stand at the table (the child never sat) and take stuff apart while I cooked. I kept him busy. Multiplication was learned by throwing numbers on the floor and jumping to the answer. No written work. Everything was oral well into 3rd grade. He read upside down hanging off the couch. He was never out of sight so at any moment I could stop him before he started. I could tell by his face when he was going to start trouble. I had him dig holes in the yard. He dug one hole deep enough he had to create steps to get out of it and then that created the need for a rope which created a need for a way to hang said rope which spun off in how to dig holes and check for oxygen and then he tunneled around the yard. Which then caused Dad to build with him a contraption to pull buckets up out of the hole and move them around to the next hole. I remember entire days spent to drawing designs so Dad could see what he wanted. It was funny to me because Dad was just as exhausted and was like whatever will give me one moment of peace, I'll do. I also snuck out at night and buried all sorts of wacky crap for him to find. Chicken bones, little bottles, wood chests, fake coins, anything that kept him digging!!!! A large part of the backyard was dedicated to this for nearly 2 years!!!! I bought hotwheel cars by the hundreds (seriously we had over 300) and he buried them, dug them up, painted them, tore apart, rebuilt them, flooded them. He made massive sand buildings and then destroyed them in all sorts of ways. That hole in the yard saved my sanity more times than i can count. When he was ready to tackle something else, he tore everything down, filled in the holes and helped plant grass. That was another summer of work. I also dropped a lot of expectations that he would sit and be quiet and such. When we needed to go out in public and appear sane to the world, I made him do laps around the house,race his bike down the road and back, jumping jacks, push ups, you name it until he was visibly tired. Then we got in the car with a snack and went about our stuff. When his energy started to kick back up, I booked it home. Now no body would ever think ever that he had ever been so active! He still tears apart anything he can get his hands on but he also creates out of that and is studying to be an electrical engineer. The number one reason we homeschool is because I had to make learning fit him because making him fit learning would have been a disaster. I just had to adjust our life to set him up for success and not failure. And that meant doing things like no other. Other little kids sat a desk and colored neatly. Mine stood up and tore the paper into bits and then glued it down with happy pounds. Who needs colored pictures of bunnies? I had one of kind paper art! I taped tons of paper to the underside of the table and he would get under there and color. Anything not normal sparked his little mind. We made the agreement he could only color on the walls in designated places. I hung dry erase and chalkboard in those spots and praised him like crazy for his work. Off of that and he had the most unpleasant task of scrubbing it off the walls and then helping me paint it. We did lots of outdoor stuff like zoo, parks, and places where his behavior would be a success. Anytime he did stuff that required repair, he had to help and he got to listen to my babble on about how I couldn't do x,y,z because I only had so much time! Eventually, it sunk in that damaging things meant fixing things which meant less time to do fun things. It's hard. But it does end. One day you will be able to take your eyes off him. That moment is just not now. He has the best memories though and thinks his childhood was a blast! :laugh: :svengo: This made me feel exhausted and happy all at the same time! 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura in CA Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 (edited) I had him dig holes in the yard. He dug one hole deep enough he had to create steps to get out of it and then that created the need for a rope which created a need for a way to hang said rope which spun off in how to dig holes and check for oxygen and then he tunneled around the yard. Which then caused Dad to build with him a contraption to pull buckets up out of the hole and move them around to the next hole. I remember entire days spent to drawing designs so Dad could see what he wanted. It was funny to me because Dad was just as exhausted and was like whatever will give me one moment of peace, I'll do. I also snuck out at night and buried all sorts of wacky crap for him to find. Chicken bones, little bottles, wood chests, fake coins, anything that kept him digging!!!! A large part of the backyard was dedicated to this for nearly 2 years!!!! I absolutely love this!!! What a creative idea. I have two boys who also loved digging in the back yard. Who knew what damage three little boys (my boys and a friend) with plastic shovels could do? I had no idea, until I saw they had dug quite a deep hole ​right next to our foundation. I re-directed them over to a vacant corner, and they had grand plans about digging a mine, making a museum, charging admission, etc. Kept them very busy for months. I even have a diary entry made by one of the boys about "making a lot of progress in the back yard" LOL. Didn't Steven Spielberg's parents let him dig actual trenches in their back yard for his first movie, a war movie, when he was about 12? :) Oh, and I was at a memorial service where they were reminiscing about digging a swimming-pool-sized hole in a back yard (in suburban California!) with other neighborhood boys. Must be a boy thing – all that energy. How fortunate kids are whose parents let them dig up the back yard. Oh, we still have our "mine" in the back yard. I planted natives around the rim, and it looks quite nice. :) Edited July 2, 2016 by Laura in CA 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.