Feeling Frustrated about MIL care and family members and need perspective

[Ginevra]

So...I am not sure what I need, here. It's part vent, I guess, maybe part advice from BTDTs.

 

DH has five sibs and a dear mother turning 90 this year. All the sibs but one live nearby; the one who lives in a different state in the south is plenty involved, though. Generally speaking, the inter-sibling relationship is better than probably 98% of families who get to this difficult point with elder care. At least, there are no crazies, no criminals, nobody who has abandoned responsibilities, KWIM?

 

MIL has dementia and some heart concerns and has not been at her home this year. She is staying with the adult kids families on a rotation of about three months. This works reasonably well in theory. But one Bil/Sil just began their rotation about a week ago; I'll call them Jack and Jill.

 

Everyone keeps up-to-date through email chain, which is fine. But Jill sent out a very long and detailed email in the chain today. In the email, she talks about how much better MIL does if she gets to go "out" and do stuff. (Sidebar: Jill has been hammering on this point in the past, too, so I am already somewhat annoyed that she can't just relax about this. Jill is a major extrovert and I think she projects this onto MIL, who is NOT an extrovert.) Jill wants everyone to commit to rotating a weekly outing with MIL. So, while MIL is staying in Jack and Jill's house, Jill nevertheless wants everyone to agree to come pick up MIL for an "outing" each week.

 

I do not agree with this. In a way, it feel like Jill is asking for an unfair level of involvement while it is her "turn," you follow me? Certainly, if anyone wants to pick up MIL to take her to lunch or a kid's baseball game or whatever, they should not wait until their "turn" having her, but I thought the whole point of moving to the few month block was so she is cared for consistently and it kind of gives the other families a break from needing to worry about whether she is getting "out" and being entertained.

 

Anyway, at first I didn't say anything, but she interjected into the chain again that she wants feedback on this rotation of outings every week. So I piped up that I did not think it needs to be a rotated expectation. I mostly try to stay out of it and usually let DH answer (it's his mother), but she was asking for feedback so I just gave it. (She is the DIL, btw; Jack is the son.) But I hope it doesn't turn into a flame war, which does happen sometimes.

 

This one particular couple, Jack and Jill, seem like they are trying to make everything 100% equal, which I think is unrealistic. Jill is also a bossy person and tries to tell everyone else what they should do for MIL. (Like the harping on outings she's done in the past.) Jack also sent a flaming group text last week because "nobody" called Mom after the tornado came through there, but he does not know that my DH went to Mom's house to check on the house after the tornado...no, he didn't call her, but she was at Jack's house, so he wasn't worried about *her.* IOW, I resent the implication that if Jack and Jill don't *see* people doing what *they* want done, they don't realize anything is being done. They aren't realizing that people have different ways of showing they care and think about different things. Every sibling is not going to contribute equally and in exactly the way Jack and Jill want, which I *really wish they would realize!*

 

I'm just really frustrated because I want Jack and Jill to just DO their rotation without the need for a bunch of commentary and "suggestions." The other sibs who have cared for MIL did not send out texts and emails brow-beating everyone to do this and that. Also, I'm annoyed because my style is quiet and behind-the-scenes; I have managed MIL's library books, for example; I had them make me a contact so I will know when her books are due or if she has fines. But I don't parade this around, KWIM? But if Jack and Jill don't *see* something happening, they don't think anything is happening, you know?

 

I'm dreading the thought that for eleven more weeks, SIL is going to send out group texts and emails detailing every bowel movement MIL had. Not really, but I just don't need to hear a bunch of horn-tooting about what great, attentive care-givers they are and shaming everyone else into being identical to them.

[J-rap]

That's frustrating!  Can you just ignore the texts and emails?

[lllll]

nm

Edited July 10, 2016 by ~ d9n

[Guest]

That's frustrating! Can you just ignore the texts and emails?

I generally do; I don't respond much. At first I sent a message saying "Thanks for the update." (Again, it's this particular SIL; she badgers people for comments. With the other SILs, I don't respond unless a direct question is asked and I have a rwal opinion on it.) but after several people said "thanks for this" and nothing more, she asked again about the rotation of outings thing and said she "wants feedback" on this idea. So I said in Reply All that I don't think it should be an expectation, just something that people *could* do if they wished.

[Guest]

I'm sorry. They sound like controlling martyrs. I second the ignoring or the uber slow response at a minimum. Send them to your junk mail and save them for a night you're in a good sense of humor (or take up drinking). It sounds like if something was emergent these are the type to definitely blow up your phone so it seems like there is little to miss.

[Guest]

And frankly, as dementia progresses, it is very likely that there will be a strong aversion to outings. The person feels less safe as the world becomes a stranger place.

 

I feel for you. My dh had 98% of the care of his dad and now his mom, and the peanut gallery was welcome to keep their moths shut or get on a plane and get out here. Sounds like this is an easier path, in a warped way.

 

Slow response and I also wonder if Jill isn't in need of s bit of respite, but she's couching it in guilt trips for you all to get a break. Not everyone is going to be able to deal with this the same way.

[Guest]

I don't think she needs a respite because they just began their turn. :/

[Carol in Cal.]

So has Jill been going around proactively and regularly taking MIL out during everyone else's rotations?  Because if not, she's whacked, something I suspect regardless.  But if so, she might be feeling like others are not stepping up the way she did, and ticked off about that, which is still whacked, but not quite as out there. 

 

If this is just stirring the pot, I'd ignore it pretty much.  I'd say something like, "I can't commit to that but will continue to do x, y, and z as we have been." and not answer followup demands.  If she is feeling put upon because she did this and now is not getting a break, I might call her up and say, hey, I don't agree with you about Mom's need to be out and about, but I'll come and hang out with her while she is at your place from time to time, not every week, but twice a month or so so you can get a break.

[Guest]

No, as far as I know, she has not been doing a bunch of things when MIL was with the other sibs.

[Carol in Cal.]

No, as far as I know, she has not been doing a bunch of things when MIL was with the other sibs.

Well there you go.  She's whacked.

So, it's pass the bean dip time.

Short and sweet. 

That doesn't work for me, I will continue to do x, y, and z.  Thanks so much!

[Anne in CA]

I feel you, I really do, but I doubt there is much you can do to change them at all. You'll have to put on the "mute" button on your own commentary to their commentary, lol. If at this point in their lives they don't know how they appear to others, it's unlikely to happen IME. They don't even have the scope for imagination to think how they might be looking to others... and that's a little sad.

[Guest]

I don't think she needs a respite because they just began their turn. :/

That doesn't necessarily mean she isn't already feeling the want/need for respite. I'm not meaning to be snotty--really. It is just the (sad) truth that both my sister and my dh would do a much better job of taking care of my own parents than I would. And having it be on-again/off-again would be hard on me.

 

You would rather drive down the highway with me--they both are road ragey--I'm not. I'm really good at executive decisions--but not at care taking. People handle different stresses and situations differently

 

And we HAVE had my MIL with us for three months at a stretch, three times. It's been fine. But it would have been different were she suffering from dementia.

 

I don't mean to brow-beat you. It's just that if what she is really seeking is respite, there are other ways to get that than putting it off on you.

 

(((O)))

[slackermom]

If Jill wants MIL to have outings while staying with them, I think that's pretty much up to her household to handle.

.

If I HAD to debate it with Jill, I am wondering: does Jill want EACH sibling's family to take MIL once a week, so MIL has an outing almost every day, or does she want there to be one weekly outing, handled by a different sibling family each week, so each sibling would do this once per month?

[Annie G]

Maybe Jill isn't a great caretaker but she loves to be in charge. So during her turn she's most happy telling everyone they need to pitch in. That would annoy me. 

 

Dh only has one sibling, a sister, and she lives near his folks while we live 20 hours away. We visit several times a year- last year six times.  We have an agreement. When she's in charge, we let her do things her way. When we're there and we are in charge, we get to do things our way without interference. I know 'our way' drives SIL nuts.  But that's the deal. I cook healthy food and we engage the folks because they respond well to stimulation. SIL doesn't cook so when she's in charge they eat fast food every day and she is really low energy and doesn't really 'do' things with them. But both methods works...MIL's dementia doesn't seem better or worse under either method.  But it's how we share care without sibling wars. 

 

I think you're going to be passing a lot of bean dip in the next 11 weeks. 

[Guest]

If Jill wants MIL to have outings while staying with them, I think that's pretty much up to her household to handle.

.

If I HAD to debate it with Jill, I am wondering: does Jill want EACH sibling's family to take MIL once a week, so MIL has an outing almost every day, or does she want there to be one weekly outing, handled by a different sibling family each week, so each sibling would do this once per month?

I wondered that. She said she really thinks its important for MIL to go out "at least once every week" and that we could arrange to "take turns." So, that sort of sounds like one sibling this week, another the next week, etc. Also urging each person to call her at least once a week.

 

But I don't know...a different SIL has already replied back that she didn't think Jill was suggesting a specific rotation, just trying to get everyone to commit to doing this more often. Which personally to me sounds like more shaming.

 

I kind of wish I hadn't said anything, even after Jill asked the second time for feedback on the weekly outings thing.

[JFSinIL]

If MIL has dementia, it might be confusing for her to be moved about every three months? At her advanced age and condition, wouldn't it be better FOR HER to be in a facility where she can be cared for 24/7 and have everyone visit her there? Is she capable of stating her wishes?

Edited June 28, 2016 by JFSinIL

[Guest]

That doesn't necessarily mean she isn't already feeling the want/need for respite. I'm not meaning to be snotty--really. It is just the (sad) truth that both my sister and my dh would do a much better job of taking care of my own parents than I would. And having it be on-again/off-again would be hard on me.

 

You would rather drive down the highway with me--they both are road ragey--I'm not. I'm really good at executive decisions--but not at care taking. People handle different stresses and situations differently

 

And we HAVE had my MIL with us for three months at a stretch, three times. It's been fine. But it would have been different were she suffering from dementia.

 

I don't mean to brow-beat you. It's just that if what she is really seeking is respite, there are other ways to get that than putting it off on you.

 

(((O)))

I hear you, and who really knows what Jill thinks? But I have a lot of negative history with Jill that colors my perception. She's so damn bossy.

 

I'm not great at care-taking, either. But that is exactly why I resent it when someone is trying to dictate how I or others "should" do things for MIL. For instance, I'm not a call-er. I don't chat people up on the phone under the best of circumstances. Calling MIL and having a Groundhog's Day conversation is something I am likely to do when there's a snowstorm in hell.

[Garga]

I kind of wish I hadn't said anything, even after Jill asked the second time for feedback on the weekly outings thing.

Ha! That's the story of my life, Quill. I try so hard to keep quiet nowadays. It's just better that way.

 

 

I guess you should just ignore anything else as much as possible.

[Guest]

If MIL has dementia, it might be confusing for her to be moved about every three months? At her advanced age and condition, wouldn't it be better FOR HER to be in a facility where she can be cared for 24/7 and have everyone visit her there? Is she capable of stating her wishes?

Yes, IMO, it would be 100% better for her to either be at her home with a caregiver, or in a facility. The three-month rotation is not the arrangement DH and I wanted AT ALL; not the least reason being that our house has no main-floor full bath and bedroom. So that is a bridge we have to cross when our "turn" comes around.

 

Her dementia is noticeable, but not advanced. She is lucid more often than not; the main feature is that she repeats stories or questions again and again, but she has not forgotten the over-arching facts. For instance, she remembers my sisters' names and where they live and who their kids are. But she'll ask some question again and again, such as, "Has Melinda been visiting to Maryland recently?"

 

She does NOT like staying continuously away from her house. But four of the kids want her to do this rotation thing, so we are out-voted.

[NorthwestMom]

I kind of wish I hadn't said anything, even after Jill asked the second time for feedback on the weekly outings thing.

 

This might be a great time to let DH handle all of the communication with his side of the family. There's no way you are going to change their minds if the other 4 families want things done this way.

 

You have my total sympathy, though. I'm on Team Quill.

 

[Tita Gidge]

I generally do; I don't respond much. At first I sent a message saying "Thanks for the update." (Again, it's this particular SIL; she badgers people for comments. With the other SILs, I don't respond unless a direct question is asked and I have a rwal opinion on it.) but after several people said "thanks for this" and nothing more, she asked again about the rotation of outings thing and said she "wants feedback" on this idea. So I said in Reply All that I don't think it should be an expectation, just something that people *could* do if they wished.

 

Jill sounds like a pill. And also a lot like my older sister, so you have my empathy LOL.

 

We have five elderly relatives in their 90s living at my brother's. My aunties and uncle have varying levels of mild dementia, but my grandmother is still able to drive and volunteer and most people think she's only in her 70s. It's hard when you have that one person in the family who (a) is a know-it-all, and with whom (b) you have a pre-existing history of annoyance/frustration. I can't imagine adding what you're experiencing, which is © you and the Pill are both in-laws in the situation. 

 

If Jill would realize that no response DOES COUNT as feedback, things would be so much easier. But good luck getting that to happen, right? Is she the type to keep asking relentlessly until someone chimes in? I think if I were in your position I'd ignore her repeated requests for feedback, and tell DH that he needs to reign his people in (i.e., talk to Jack directly, no wives - knowing it'd get back to Jill eventually, but hopefully keeping you from having to engage Jill personally). To her I'd say, "Once we've had a chance to think about this, DH will be in touch with Jack." Or reply with a quick "We can't commit to a regular schedule. I hear your suggestion and we'll do what we can."

 

Good luck with this one, sounds ... blech.

[Guest]

Jill sounds like a pill. And also a lot like my older sister, so you have my empathy LOL.

 

We have five elderly relatives in their 90s living at my brother's. My aunties and uncle have varying levels of mild dementia, but my grandmother is still able to drive and volunteer and most people think she's only in her 70s. It's hard when you have that one person in the family who (a) is a know-it-all, and with whom (b) you have a pre-existing history of annoyance/frustration. I can't imagine adding what you're experiencing, which is © you and the Pill are both in-laws in the situation.

 

If Jill would realize that no response DOES COUNT as feedback, things would be so much easier. But good luck getting that to happen, right? Is she the type to keep asking relentlessly until someone chimes in? I think if I were in your position I'd ignore her repeated requests for feedback, and tell DH that he needs to reign his people in (i.e., talk to Jack directly, no wives - knowing it'd get back to Jill eventually, but hopefully keeping you from having to engage Jill personally). To her I'd say, "Once we've had a chance to think about this, DH will be in touch with Jack." Or reply with a quick "We can't commit to a regular schedule. I hear your suggestion and we'll do what we can."

 

Good luck with this one, sounds ... blech.

Yes, unfortunately, it is common for her to relentlessly ask for a reply. It can be harder to ignore her because she does this, just as I wasn't going to respond until she asked a second time for comments.

 

This morning Jack has replied, saying No, they are not asking for a specific commitment of rotating weeks, they are just "trying to make everyone aware" that MIL has nothing to do except what we do with her.

[Guest]

Perhaps during your turn, she could be at her house...any RV available to set up in her driveway?

Well, this is what DH and I were thinking, that we could bring her to her house every couple days and she could shower and spend some nights there with DH or myself sleeping there. Her house is plenty big enough and the master bedroom is on the first level, plus the bathroom was remodeled last year to be more accessible for her.

 

But the four sibs don't want her to go to or stay at her house at all. They say it is too upsetting to her because she thinks she is staying at home and then the sibling takes her away again. This is a big sore spot for DH as it is, because he feels that she would be happiest at her own home where she is surrounded by all her familiar things and her photos and things that bring back memories.

[Joules]

Well, this is what DH and I were thinking, that we could bring her to her house every couple days and she could shower and spend some nights there with DH or myself sleeping there. Her house is plenty big enough and the master bedroom is on the first level, plus the bathroom was remodeled last year to be more accessible for her.

 

But the four sibs don't want her to go to or stay at her house at all. They say it is too upsetting to her because she thinks she is staying at home and then the sibling takes her away again. This is a big sore spot for DH as it is, because he feels that she would be happiest at her own home where she is surrounded by all her familiar things and her photos and things that bring back memories.

 

Nope, unless you have a professional telling you that it is a huge problem, my vote is that you take care of her during your 12 weeks however you see fit.  What works for one family may not work for another.  What is important is that she is cared for.

 

And honestly, if you talk to the professionals, they will likely say consistency is hugely important and a facility with regular visits is better than moving every three months.  If Jill is having a hard time, it is probably because of MILs trauma due to being moved.  It takes MONTHS for someone with even mild dementia to adjust to a routine.

 

I might need a spin-off, but I wonder for anyone BTDT, do sibling relationships recover post-elder care?  Do you really *ever* want to see them again once the older generation has passed?

[brehon]

So, let me ask this. Who has MPOA, DPOA, etc? Is it shared between the sibs or does one sib have one and another sib have the other? The reason I ask is not because I think that a POA needs to be (or even could legally be) invoked right now; rather, I'm looking at the bigger picture. As your MIL declines further and her mental and physical health deteriorates, who will have the legal authority to make the medical and other decisions for her?

 

Your MIL's dementia seems to track how my grandfather's dementia progressed. I won't bore you with all the details; however, suffice it to say that denial ain't just a river in Egypt, as Mark Twain so aptly said. I still bear a few scars from how I was treated by some of my grandparents' children. I'm sorry you're dealing with this. I think a clear email to Pill (thanks TG) stating just what Carol suggested and ignoring everything else is probably your best course of action. Or you could make your SIL's texts/emails into a drinking game - a sip of wine or whatever whenever you read certain words or phrases. Won't help your liver, but might make the next bit of time more bearable. :-/

Edited June 28, 2016 by brehon

[brehon]

Oh, I would also recommend both you and your dh read "Being Mortal", if you haven't already. There are very good insights there on elder end of life care and decisions.

[bettyandbob]

Yes, unfortunately, it is common for her to relentlessly ask for a reply. It can be harder to ignore her because she does this, just as I wasn't going to respond until she asked a second time for comments.

 

This morning Jack has replied, saying No, they are not asking for a specific commitment of rotating weeks, they are just "trying to make everyone aware" that MIL has nothing to do except what we do with her.

 

 

But isn't that the point of the 3 month rotation--the family that is "on" is the one providing the care and activity for that period. Isn't that why there was a specified turn taking? Why would she need to make everyone "aware"? 

 

It sounds like she's saying she wants respite during her turn and she wants to know when that respite is. Like Family A has first Monday of the month, family B has third thursday, family C has etc... I don't think it makes sense to do this. If she is having trouble with the routine of having MIL, she should just say it. It is OK for caregivers to come out and say "this is hard, it really sucks and I miss going to my Monday morning yoga class, because I can't get out of the house now.".

 

And is the fact that Jill can't get out of the house as much as she likes while MIL is with her the real problem? Maybe she needs to admit that and maybe it's time to revisit MIL staying in her own home with a paid caregiver. If MIL were in her own home with a paid caregiver then the formal weekly rotation of "outings" would make more sense. You could also set up a sign up genius with blocks of morning, afternoon, and evening to help maximize people visiting/checking up without overlap. Siblings, siblings in law, older grandchildren could all sign up for different times. That way MIL could have a few visitors spread over the week at different times a day (not every block and not even everyday has to have a visitor). Rotating MIL to a new home every three months seems cruel and seems like it could increase rate of decline. 

[BlsdMama]

So...I am not sure what I need, here. It's part vent, I guess, maybe part advice from BTDTs.

 

DH has five sibs and a dear mother turning 90 this year. All the sibs but one live nearby; the one who lives in a different state in the south is plenty involved, though. Generally speaking, the inter-sibling relationship is better than probably 98% of families who get to this difficult point with elder care. At least, there are no crazies, no criminals, nobody who has abandoned responsibilities, KWIM?

 

MIL has dementia and some heart concerns and has not been at her home this year. She is staying with the adult kids families on a rotation of about three months. This works reasonably well in theory. But one Bil/Sil just began their rotation about a week ago; I'll call them Jack and Jill.

 

Everyone keeps up-to-date through email chain, which is fine. But Jill sent out a very long and detailed email in the chain today. In the email, she talks about how much better MIL does if she gets to go "out" and do stuff. (Sidebar: Jill has been hammering on this point in the past, too, so I am already somewhat annoyed that she can't just relax about this. Jill is a major extrovert and I think she projects this onto MIL, who is NOT an extrovert.) Jill wants everyone to commit to rotating a weekly outing with MIL. So, while MIL is staying in Jack and Jill's house, Jill nevertheless wants everyone to agree to come pick up MIL for an "outing" each week.

 

I do not agree with this. In a way, it feel like Jill is asking for an unfair level of involvement while it is her "turn," you follow me? Certainly, if anyone wants to pick up MIL to take her to lunch or a kid's baseball game or whatever, they should not wait until their "turn" having her, but I thought the whole point of moving to the few month block was so she is cared for consistently and it kind of gives the other families a break from needing to worry about whether she is getting "out" and being entertained.

 

Anyway, at first I didn't say anything, but she interjected into the chain again that she wants feedback on this rotation of outings every week. So I piped up that I did not think it needs to be a rotated expectation. I mostly try to stay out of it and usually let DH answer (it's his mother), but she was asking for feedback so I just gave it. (She is the DIL, btw; Jack is the son.) But I hope it doesn't turn into a flame war, which does happen sometimes.

 

This one particular couple, Jack and Jill, seem like they are trying to make everything 100% equal, which I think is unrealistic. Jill is also a bossy person and tries to tell everyone else what they should do for MIL. (Like the harping on outings she's done in the past.) Jack also sent a flaming group text last week because "nobody" called Mom after the tornado came through there, but he does not know that my DH went to Mom's house to check on the house after the tornado...no, he didn't call her, but she was at Jack's house, so he wasn't worried about *her.* IOW, I resent the implication that if Jack and Jill don't *see* people doing what *they* want done, they don't realize anything is being done. They aren't realizing that people have different ways of showing they care and think about different things. Every sibling is not going to contribute equally and in exactly the way Jack and Jill want, which I *really wish they would realize!*

 

I'm just really frustrated because I want Jack and Jill to just DO their rotation without the need for a bunch of commentary and "suggestions." The other sibs who have cared for MIL did not send out texts and emails brow-beating everyone to do this and that. Also, I'm annoyed because my style is quiet and behind-the-scenes; I have managed MIL's library books, for example; I had them make me a contact so I will know when her books are due or if she has fines. But I don't parade this around, KWIM? But if Jack and Jill don't *see* something happening, they don't think anything is happening, you know?

 

I'm dreading the thought that for eleven more weeks, SIL is going to send out group texts and emails detailing every bowel movement MIL had. Not really, but I just don't need to hear a bunch of horn-tooting about what great, attentive care-givers they are and shaming everyone else into being identical to them.

 

 

I don't think you're being unreasonable.  I think your dsil has really good intentions.... it's just exactly what you're saying, she doesn't "see" what everyone else is doing.  And she has a very high need for affirmation I think, wanting to know she's doing the "right" thing and needing affirmation for it. Realizing it most likely comes out of an area of insecurity does help a little I think?  It doesn't tell you what to do about the demands... :(  How does your DH feel?  Is the weekly rotation, annoying- yes, but doable?

[Guest]

So, let me ask this. Who has MPOA, DPOA, etc? Is it shared between the sibs or does one sib have one and another sib have the other? The reason I ask is not because I think that a POA needs to be (or even could legally be) invoked right now; rather, I'm looking at the bigger picture. As your MIL declines further and her mental and physical health deteriorates, who will have the legal authority to make the medical and other decisions for her?

 

Your MIL's dementia seems to track how my grandfather's dementia progressed. I won't bore you with all the details; however, suffice it to say that denial ain't just a river in Egypt, as Mark Twain so aptly said. I still bear a few scars from how I was treated by some of my grandparents' children. I'm sorry you're dealing with this. I think a clear email to Pill (thanks TG) stating just what Carol suggested and ignoring everything else is probably your best course of action. Or you could make your SIL's texts/emails into a drinking game - a sip of wine or whatever whenever you read certain words or phrases. Won't help your liver, but might make the next bit of time more bearable. :-/

One sibling is Executor of will and manages the finances. The sibling who lives in another state has medical POA, I believe.

 

Love the drinking game idea, LOL!

[Guest]

Traveling like that is hard, even for younger, healthy snowbirds.

And the home deteriorates if no one is living in it. Are all the homes accessible?

 

Perhaps another solution is to arrange for senior to be at home, with shift coverage by family members and maybe a hired person during week days.The 24/7 split between two at their home is clearly stressing Jill already, if she is asking for support and daycare. Are there more senior day activities in senior's neighborhood? At home, can senior garden, feed the birds, etc?

Prior to this year, she was living at her home with weekly rotating coverage and her sister (DH's aunt) living there. I thought this was optimal. The aunt is a good bit younger and of sound mind. She doesn't really have another "home." So the cousins are passing the aunt around and we're passing MIL around, but IMO, it would be a win-win to have MIL and aunt living at MIL's home, with assistance from us and, in the future, paid help as well.

 

The four "dominant" sibs rejected this idea when MIL had a mini-stroke. Auntie makes "farm food" and cannot/will not make different kinds of food for MIL to eat. Also Auntie does not "make" MIL do anything, so MIL sits on the counch and watches Fox News. there are some other aspects to it, but that's the main gist.

 

When we were first doing the rotating weekly assistance thing, I tried to get a Sign Up Genius thing going. There is already a weekly rotating schedule for mowing at MIL's farm and that could be on Sign up, as well as library books, outings, whatever. That was my vision, LOL! But it didn't take. The eldest sibs I think were just too unfamiliar with it and/or they didn't want that formal of a schedule maybe? I'm not sure, but it was one suggestion that never happened.

[fairfarmhand]

I'd let your dh talk to his brother about this stuff. He should call rather than email.

 

Bil needs to be reminded so he can remind Pill that many people are contributing in many different ways, even if she is unaware of what occurred.

 

 

Usually, men can handle this stuff in a much more low key manner than women.

[Guest]

I don't think you're being unreasonable. I think your dsil has really good intentions.... it's just exactly what you're saying, she doesn't "see" what everyone else is doing. And she has a very high need for affirmation I think, wanting to know she's doing the "right" thing and needing affirmation for it. Realizing it most likely comes out of an area of insecurity does help a little I think? It doesn't tell you what to do about the demands... :( How does your DH feel? Is the weekly rotation, annoying- yes, but doable?

YES, Jill-the-Pill has a high need for affirmation; I have noticed this in many other ways. She wants praise for everything. I'm kind of the opposite because I get a lot of joy from doing things quietly, in the background.

 

DH is a very stubborn man and the main thing is this: if there is one way way to be sure DH will NOT do something, it is to brow-beat him over it. He will do almost any task as long as he believes it is by his own choice. He cannot be Guilt-tripped into doing the smallest thing. So this is how he feels about it: the more Jack and Jill send texts and emails trying to goad everyone into doing X,Y, z, the LESS likely DH will do those things at all. He already has some ideas about things he wants to do, like bring MIL over to sit by the pool while the kids swim, but I seriously hope and pray Jack or Jill does not try to order DH to do this because -I know the man - he will NOT do it if someone is trying to "make" him.

[Guest]

I'd let your dh talk to his brother about this stuff. He should call rather than email.

 

Bil needs to be reminded so he can remind Pill that many people are contributing in many different ways, even if she is unaware of what occurred.

 

 

Usually, men can handle this stuff in a much more low key manner than women.

I agree. In January, they had a meeting and it was *clearly* intended to be for the siblings ONLY, in part to keep the iLs from being one more chattering voice in the room. It is hard enough to get six people to agree, much less 12. ONE SIL came to this meeting, though! Fortunately, words were not minced and the sibs told her the meeting was meant for the sibs, not the spouses and she was welcome to watch TV in the other room. :D

[Valley Girl]

. If I am contributing significant care, I am part of the decision process.

 

I agree. For a variety of reasons, I think it makes sense for just the children to talk. But I would hope each couple would have had a discussion of their own before that family meeting so that the one attending had a clear sense of what he/she and spouse could reasonably do. Before any final decisions get made, I think the kids and spouses should again have a chance to discuss things from the meeting before anything is written in stone. "OK, everybody, let's go home and talk with our spouses, then reconvene."

 

I would have a very hard time (as would my DH) being committed to a program of care without having a voice. It's a recipe for resentment.

 

Since Quill and the other in-laws were excluded, I wonder if that's the issue with Jill. I agree her behavior is annoying. But did she willingly agree to the three-month rotation or was she simply told it was happening?

[catz]

 

Since Quill and the other in-laws were excluded, I wonder if that's the issue with Jill. I agree her behavior is annoying. But did she willingly agree to the three-month rotation or was she simply told it was happening?

:iagree: This is what I'm wondering too.  Maybe the discussion has been shut down in her marriage and she's trying to control what she can?  I think it's fine to ignore or deflect.  Maybe it will force the whole set up into discussion again. 

 

I personally think the whole set up is really difficult.  I personally love my MIL dearly, but could not have her in my home for 3 months.  Especially while my kids are still living here.  We live in an older home with many stairs.  I think she would hate it and we would all get resentful quickly.  Everyone in our house appreciates their personal space and my MIL is an extreme introvert.  Sounds challenging for someone with dementia too.  It sounds like maybe this is what (some of) the kids want but I also think it's important to respect an aging person's wishes and comfort level.

 

[Guest]

I'm trying to imagine how this works.

 

Family--we'll travel poor mom around and make her eat healthy food so she can keep traveling around until she is 100!

Quill-we have no accessibility.

Family-sorry but this is the plan.

Quill-we'll take her to her home then

Family-no, she must be cared for in your non-accessible home. Good luck figuring it out.

 

Fwiw, my family did the same thing to my great-grandma. When they finally realized she was going to live longer than they wanted to care for her, they put her in "the home" (there is only one in their town). GG loved it! She played bingo everyday. She socialized with others her age. It was really the best thing for her and her children.

[Guest]

I'm trying to imagine how this works.

 

Family--we'll travel poor mom around and make her eat healthy food so she can keep traveling around until she is 100!

Quill-we have no accessibility.

Family-sorry but this is the plan.

Quill-we'll take her to her home then

Family-no, she must be cared for in your non-accessible home. Good luck figuring it out.

 

Fwiw, my family did the same thing to my great-grandma. When they finally realized she was going to live longer than they wanted to care for her, they put her in "the home" (there is only one in their town). GG loved it! She played bingo everyday. She socialized with others her age. It was really the best thing for her and her children.

 

Not far from the truth, here.

 

When she had the stroke, two of the sibs pretty much *freaked out* and wanted to put her on a very strict eating and walking schedule. DH was against this and part of what he said was what you indicate - "Are we trying to get her to live to be 100? Why not let her enjoy the food she eats and the way she lives for whatever time she has left with us? We're not going to turn the ship around now and she needs the comfort of the food she is accustomed to." 

 

Well, the sibs did calm down about that. I think it was helped by another older adult interjecting pretty much exactly DH's point. 

 

And yeah...I am not sure what we will do when our turn comes. We can rig up a room that can serve as a bedroom and that is not a big issue, but there is no way to get to a full bathroom except to go up our stairs and our stairs are a "winder" style of stairs - skinny on one side. I would rather drive her to her own house to take a shower than try to get her safely up and down my stairs. *I* have fallen on those stairs two times and hurt myself good. 

 

Also, DH and my office is at MIL's house, so it would make SO MUCH SENSE for her to come over to the house while we work, take a shower, spend some time seeing her things there and then go back to our house. If I go to work and leave her at my home, she will be at my home alone WHILE I am at *her* home working. Does that make sense? It doesn't to me. 

[bolt.]

I think Jill is doing a hard thing reasonably well. She's (1) applying her own strengths (systems, ideas, logic) to the issue and (2) trying to get her own needs met (affirmation, exchange of ideas) while she works it out. I think the down side (that it's irritating) is real, but not unexpected. She's going to do her shift her own way. She's going to use her opportunity-of-care to try to advocate and implement slight changes that she thinks are improvements.

 

This is just the same as you guys thinking some house-stays are "a good thing" and waiting for your turn to make them happen, and hoping others might follow your example and do it too. She thinks an outing a week is "a good thing" -- and that it would be good if the non-care sibblings did them. That makes sense. It provides a brief expectable respite in every week of care, plus it keeps the familiar people in her life in between their care shifts -- basically once a month, each. Phone calls do that too. It's not a bad plan (it's probably already happening informally and irregularly) so I'm sorry she's being a pill about it.

 

I think you all need to expect each care giving sibling to have their quirks. If Jill's quirk is "sends too many emails and tries to fix what ain't broke" (and maybe "really likes affirmation, and wants a little break once a week" too) -- I think a good family system can shake that off. Pat her on the head, take her need for affirmation seriously (extrovert, not her fault) and occasionally give her better ideas an honest try, no matter how they come across.

Edited June 28, 2016 by bolt.

[Guest]

 

I think you all need to expect each care giving sibling to have their quirks. If Jill's quirk is "sends too many emails and tries to fix what ain't broke" (and maybe "really likes affirmation, and wants a little break once a week" too) -- I think a good family system can shake that off. Pat her on the head, take her need for affirmation seriously (extrovert, not her fault) and occasionally give her better ideas an honest try, no matter how they come across.

 

That would be a reasonable thing to do.

If I didn't dislike her SOOOOOOO much.  :closedeyes: 

[zoobie]

I agree. For a variety of reasons, I think it makes sense for just the children to talk. But I would hope each couple would have had a discussion of their own before that family meeting so that the one attending had a clear sense of what he/she and spouse could reasonably do. Before any final decisions get made, I think the kids and spouses should again have a chance to discuss things from the meeting before anything is written in stone. "OK, everybody, let's go home and talk with our spouses, then reconvene."

 

I would have a very hard time (as would my DH) being committed to a program of care without having a voice. It's a recipe for resentment.

 

Since Quill and the other in-laws were excluded, I wonder if that's the issue with Jill. I agree her behavior is annoying. But did she willingly agree to the three-month rotation or was she simply told it was happening?

 

I agree that excluding the spouses who will be affected is a recipe for disaster. Quill will be doing the majority of the work, not her DH. Though I'm not discounting the effects on the male spouses. My dad has been impacted a great deal by having his wife's mother live with them. She requires around-the-clock care (they haven't slept through the night in years unless they're out of town and still wake up out of habit), and they need two people to help her out of bed and to the bathroom now. They've aged twice as fast. They can't enjoy their lives. It was supposed to be a short-term solution, but that was TEN years ago.

 

The rotation sounds like a cluster. Especially with active families with children and a person with dementia who's going to require more and more care as the dementia progresses. Jill's got the first 3 months. Whomever has her the last quarter is going to have a different experience. This trying to make the burden "fair" on all the siblings isn't fair to the mother, the spouses, or the grandchildren. Stability and routine is key. Throwing that off is going to get worse and worse for her. And Quill, if your house isn't suitable, and you aren't able to provide attendant care, it's okay to say no. Your DH should say no, **I** cannot provide care to my mother, and this isn't going to work for my family. 

[Supertechmom]

I would just upset the apple cart.   Send her back a response explaining that if the rotation of MIL to her house has proven to be more than she can handle, then the plan needs to be revisited because weekly outings in addition to  3 months of care has gotten out of hand.  I would perhaps word it along the lines of I know you are providing such great care and how hard it is to rearrange your daily life and schedules to accommodate MIL 24/7 and you are doing a great job but......And then restate your idea.  

 

But I'm like that..... It sounds like caring for MIL sounded good on paper. And now it is not so much. 

 

I'm also one to say if she responds again to just ask point blank  So the deal to have MIL at your house 3 months so the rest of us can prepare for our turn is not working for you and you want us to help you during your turn and then do our turn?  Maybe MIL wouldn't be such a handful for you if she was a place that held memories for her.

 

But again, I'm a pill too!  My siblings have already put a plan in place to rotate my mother 3 months so we each can care for her.   I said no.  They said tough.  That's the plan.   ...... It is going to be interesting if they start rotations because I will not. 

 

This stuff is never easy.  Why does the out of town person have medical POA instead of someone local to the hospital?

[Guest]

If the out-of-town person does have medical (I think she does), then the reason would be because she was the first one who was taking Mom for months at a time. For the past three (?) maybe two years, that sibling took MIL in the winter because of snow and cold here. So mom was spending three months in the winter there and then coming back to her house and each sibling came to help her at home by the week. But they started a new thing this year and when the southern-based sibling was finished her turn, mom started this 3-month thing. 

 

 

[StephanieZ]

I'd either ignore the emails/texts (let dh deal with it or not), or I'd probably consider the idea.

 

I actually think it's a really nice idea, FWIW. I understand your desire for a break, but if you live locally, one outing a week isn't that big a deal. I'd maybe, say, quit some other volunteer activity (or hire a lawn service, etc) if I resented the time suck, but I'd do it. For your MIL, having someone visit or take her out each week would be nice. Rotating every 3 months, it'd be a year or more before her turn with *your* family, and that's a long time for an elderly person with dementia. I care-gave for my mom in her final years with dementia, and she was an extrovert (I am NOT), so I organized a ton of outings and visits. It helped schedule her life, and that was a big help. For Jill, it sounds like the 3 months might be very hard without that help. She may really need the help. 

 

How about offer to do it for this one rotation as an experiment. That's only a handful of outings/visits. You and your family might enjoy MIL more on a weekly visit basis than when you have her FT since you won't have the daily duties . . . Choose a day/time and just do it for the next couple months. Make it as painless as possible. I.e., take her to church if you go to church or take her to weekly ball practice or simply choose a weekday and take her to lunch each Wednesday along with one of your kids on a rotating basis . . . Could be lovely. 

 

You are *very* fortunate to have so much help and such cooperation. I would go very far to maintain that positive relationship. Your MIL must be a great woman to have earned such loyalty and raised such caring children (and fostered such support from her children in laws!)

 

My mom's been gone a year, and my brother (who helped caregive) lives across the country, so we couldn't do what you're doing, but I can say that my brother and I had very different expectations/needs due to our very different personalities. I think that your SIL is working hard to do her best, and that is a *HUGE* blessing. Try to look past the annoyance and listen to her heart and make an effort to accommodate her requests.  

 

((((hugs))))

 

 

 

 

[JFSinIL]

A mediator needs to get involved as the little old lady (judging my my own dad) is only going to get worse, memory-wise, and it is better for her to enter a facility NOW, while she can adjust, than later, when it will be harder on her. I imagine moving from house to house will be increasingly hard on her, too. The current situation makes the kids feel better ("we didn't stick Mom in a home or let her sit in from the Fox News all day like her sister did") but it may not be in your MIL's best interests for this to continue. My dad, after he broke his hip, was in rehab several weeks. I was out to visit and help care for him when he was able to go home - I recall the social worker at the rehab place pushed for me to find a decent facility to move Dad into instead of going home again, since the facility is inevitable, and he would adjust far better going from rehab to the facility than home first and then moving to the facility months or a year or so later. Dad's long-time girlfriend (he and mom are divorced, neither will remarry though as then Mom and Dad's girlfriend lose their alimony from their former spouses. But each is as good as married, for all intents and purposes, to the "girlfriend/boyfriend") just couldn't "do that" to Dad (yet) so he came home. In retrospect, the social worker was right. Dad is worse now, and it is going to be a lot harder getting him to adjust to moving into a safer place now :-(

No one should offer respite to the person currently in charge of your MIL. Maybe them getting stressed will make them come around to seeing that little old lady needs to be either with a caretaker in her own home or in a facility - with frequent visits from her kids etc.

 

Some of the places I visited as possible placements for Dad (eventually) had tiers - retired folks had their own little apartments, and could microwave food in their room (no stove/ovens) or go to the dining hall for meals. There were heaps of activities and they could come and go as they pleased. Then there was another tier, with more nursing care but still in their own small apartment or room (depending on $$$) and supervised transportation if driving no longer safe. Final tier more of a secure ward for folks with dementia who might wander etc. It was a separate section of the facility, with its own smaller dining hall, rec room, etc. IF a person was able to ask to go out to the larger facility, if they knew to say "It is time for the Thursday poker game in the lounge", then they could be allowed to leave the ward to go to the event. BUT they could not leave the building without an alarm, so if they did get lost, it was just in the facility. Does this make sense?

Edited June 28, 2016 by JFSinIL

[StephanieZ]

ps. If everyone is helping a little during the week, this 3 month rotation thing might survive a lot longer than otherwise. Dementia is generally progressive, so things will likely get harder and harder, and having 24/7 duty for 3 months might get overwhelming quickly. That'll mean being in a facility or living FT with just one family (you???!!!), and that'll be so hard on so many levels.

 

I know for me, if there'd been 3 other siblings taking Mom for a few hours each week on a predictable basis, my burden would have been MUCH lighter and Mom would have been SO much happier to be surrounded by her loved ones so regularly. People need purpose and meaning in their lives. Three family outings each week would mean that every day, she'd have something to look forward to that day or the the next and something to talk about (the outing the day before) . . . That would have been HUGE for my mom. I struggled to hire help/etc to create that schedule for Mom. My dds took her to church (and usually lunch afterwards) each week; I hired art lessons, made hair/nail appointments, hired caregivers to take her out . . . But the church outings with my dds were her weekly highlight . . . Because they *mean* something because they were HER granddaughters . . .

 

My brother called Mom every day, and those short calls were highlights of her entire life, even when she couldn't contribute much to the conversation at all. (FaceTime was a blessing.) The little things mean so much. My brother drives me crazy, but I'll love him forever remembering his compassionate and gentle handling of Mom in those FaceTime calls . . . Makes me teary just remembering it. 

[Valley Girl]

I can only imagine how terribly stressful the 3-month rotation is to everyone. I feel terrible for the elderly MIL--dealing with dementia--having to readjust to changes in surroundings, diet, caregiver, routine, even the "feel" of the household so often. It's extremely hard on the caregivers, too. Their lives are turned upside down, too. Personally, I think it's OK, Quill, to tell or have your DH tell the sibs that you simply cannot accommodate this plan in your home, but you can do xyz even if that means having MIL at her own home for that time. The sibs can then decide to increase their rotation time or start to rethink the whole plan and consider what MIL might want as well. You all want to do right by her. But it has to work for everyone. (You're a good DIL.)

[StephanieZ]

ps. Everyone has different priorities about home vs facility care. I heard the arguments for facilities . .. but I chose the home care route and would not change a thing. Every family is different in this respect.

[Guest]

 

 

I actually think it's a really nice idea, FWIW. I understand your desire for a break, but if you live locally, one outing a week isn't that big a deal. I'd maybe, say, quit some other volunteer activity (or hire a lawn service, etc) if I resented the time suck, but I'd do it. For your MIL, having someone visit or take her out each week would be nice.

 

It's not that I mind doing things with MIL. I would totally do that anyway. It's two things: 1. I'm not bowing to Jill's command, KWIM? I'm not doing anything *because* Jill said to do so. (DH is not the only stubborn one here.) Also, 2. I don't want to interact with Jill when I can possibly avoid it. So, I'm not keen to tell her, text her, whatever, to arrange something. For some things, it wouldn't be a big deal, no. If we're going to the park, I *could* send Jill a text and say, "We're going to the park today and could come pick up mom around 12:00." For example. I would do that. But I am not going to bring over a lunch, say, because that has to be arranged and that means I have to call Jill and arrange it.  :ack2: 

 

Lastly, I am a phone-a-phobic, so trying to get me to call anyone is a non-starter. I am not going to call MIL just because Jill says I should. 

[JFSinIL]

Right now my Dad is still at home. His girlfriend still works full-time (she is over 70! but she loves the income) but has arranged with a caretaker to come each day to drive Dad to his favorite coffee shop to eat and tease the waitress (they all know Dad). Another caretaker or a neighbor also takes Dad out to eat later, or brings him food and checks on him. He still has his beloved car, but is driven in it, he does not have the keys (finally!). He waters the plants, takes the trash cans in and out each week, snoozes to the weather channel or CNN (his short term memory is poor, so it is always new news to him). He is 6'1" and physically fit and strong, it is just his mind that is going :-( and he is going to fight moving into a facility tooth and nail. His girlfriend likes to go on short trips, but she just can't take Dad anymore, as he gets confused and doesn't know where he is.

[JFSinIL]

ps. Everyone has different priorities about home vs facility care. I heard the arguments for facilities . .. but I chose the home care route and would not change a thing. Every family is different in this respect.

Yup. You have to do what is best for the oldster, and finances do pay a part, too. My dad's girlfriend is a CPA, and she figures if Dad lives another ten years (he might, or longer, even if he is mid-80s now, he is that healthy in body) she has to make his money last that long. We did see some very good possibly placements for Dad, but the cost is so much! Hubby an I plan to either live in one of our kid's basements on cat food eventually, or let them set us adrift on an ice flow, as we will have far, far fewer resources compared to my Dad.

Edited June 28, 2016 by JFSinIL