Curious: I had a not-so-great hospital experience. Am I too picky?

[Mbelle]

I fully support you if you want to transition to being male.

 

Do you fully support me if I want to transition to having a female attendant?

 

I'm fully supportive of people transitioning to whatever it is they need to be.

I just think it has to work both ways.

Otherwise nothing has changed at all.

[bolt.]

It's reduculous to say that

 

"I can change my gender to meet my preferences at any time in my life."

 

Is the other side of the coin to

 

"I can require services to be provided to me only by other people who are the gender I prefer for those services."

 

The issues are not even remotely related. It sounds like you think that since it's now fair for you to be in charge of your own gender, that means it's only fair for you to be in charge of other people's genders too. Which is nonsense.

 

If you want it to "work both ways" that means that you are in charge of your gender, and everyone else is also in charge of their own gender.

[Mergath]

Do you fully support me if I want to transition to having a female attendant?

 

I'm fully supportive of people transitioning to whatever it is they need to be.

I just think it has to work both ways.

Otherwise nothing has changed at all.

 

Comparing the transgender community to demanding the right to choose the gender (or race, or religion, etc.) of your nurse is so wrong I don't even know where to begin. Honestly, I'm beginning to wonder if you're trolling this thread.

[Caroline]

Do you fully support me if I want to transition to having a female attendant?

 

I'm fully supportive of people transitioning to whatever it is they need to be.

I just think it has to work both ways.

Otherwise nothing has changed at all.

I don't understand your logic. Because Bruce Soringsteen cancelled his North Carolina concert you can demand a female nurse?

[Bluegoat]

I think the point people are trying to get to about gender changes is from that perspective, peoples feelings about identity, gender, and intimacy are generally considered almost sacrosanct - and to some extent in a very subjective way.  So - if we take that as given, wouldn't people's feelings about bodily intimacy also be similarly sacroscanct, and subjectivly true for that person whether or not the caregiver was competent? 

 

I think that could probably be expanded into a very consistant argument, I don't see it as trolling at all.

Edited April 9, 2016 by Bluegoat

[Lady Florida.]

Why shouldn't I get to pick my gender?  

Seriously, in 2016 people are not doing concerts (Bruce) because they believe that one should be allowed to pick their gender.

Doesn't that go both ways?  

 

To quote my grandmother: "What does that have to do with the price of tea in China?"

 

IOW: How on earth are the two even related?

 

Answer: They're not.

[Mbelle]

I am not trolling the thread.

 

I think human bodies are more than just skin and bone.  We in some sense are our bodies.  People need to have dignity in their vulnerability.  Our mental, emotional and spiritual needs are also very important and to my way of thinking the body is not separate from that.  I do believe transgender people are saying that is why they are more comfortable in the bathroom they identify with.  Otherwise, we can also just tell them they are going to have to deal with it in 2016 for goodness sake.  I personally, don't know how I feel about that, but I am trying to see that from their point of view, just as I am trying to say that I do not feel comfortable with a male attendant helping me in the bathroom when I have no choice.

[TranquilMind]

To answer the question in your title... Yes, I believe you are too picky.

 

The nurse should not have been rude to you. That is a valid. BUT, she is also human, and was expected to meet an unreasonable expectation, in the middle of the night. I'd extend grace. You have zero idea what else the RN was dealing with that night - maybe she just lost a patient 5 minutes before entering your room - you just don't know. Try putting yourself in her shoes for a few minutes. If the CNA is employed by the hospital, it is to do a job. He is trained in that job. Walking someone to the toilet is a $25,000 position. It is not the $75,000 position. Egads. Medical care is pricey enough. Complaints should be made when there are Medical mistakes made. Life or death issues. Or for a pattern of bad behavior. Complaining about A single interaction with a person who experienced a temporary case of human emotions is way over the top.

 

I don't know about you, but in my role as "professional" caregiver - A.K.A. Mom - I am sometimes less than perfectly well mannered - i.e. Rude and snippy with my kids. Sometimes it is because they have completely ignored the presence of their father - an available male, completely capable of meeting their needs, and requesting that I, the female, stop what I am doing to comply with their request.

 

But are you rude and snippy unapologetically, and assume the kids can just suck it up if they get in your way?  Or do you apologize when you have been snippy?  

 

I'm assuming the second.

 

Also, the kids aren't paying for this experience with you as a caregiver.  They are just stuck with you.  ;)

 

[Alicia64]

Exactly. Gender matters and I can prove it: they didn't sign Janie Depp -- and make a bajillion dollars -- to play Jack Sparrow in Pirates of the Caribbean.

 

Only Mr. Yummy could handle that role.

 

 

Really?

 

I WAS MAKING A JOKE.

 

I was trying to bring some levity to a thread that has seriously derailed. Moderator: time to pull the plug.

 

Thank you everyone for your thoughts. You gave me a lot to think about and if I could go back -- and not be startled at midnight -- I might just do it differently. (Maybe, I'm still thinking.)

 

Alley

[TechWife]

You will get a survey in the mail in the next couple of days. This is where you can tell what happened. If you want to talk to someone, there are patient advocates in every hospital. They also take care of situations like this. Hospitals live and die by those in patient surveys. The results they get determines how much pay out they get from the government and now private insurance. The more complaints they get the hospital will be forced to hire more staff and retrain the current staff in customer service. 

I just went thru a hospital orientation and they were really really really stressing that part of everyone's jobs regardless of department is about customer service. 

Let the hospital know. Don't be silent. 

 

 

What is this talk about patient advocate and letter in the mail? I don't think I've ever been offered a survey. I am thinking this is based on location.

 

 

I get a survey any time I have any interaction with the hospital or anything in their system - lab test, ultrasound, etc. 

 

 

I don't think I've ever seen one, or I'm just really unobservant. Ds and dd both used the ER within like the past 6 months, too. 

 

The way hospitals survey their patients varies. In the hospital where I volunteer, it is my job to visit patients and ask them a set of questions related to their stay in the hospital.  Problems are then referred to the appropriate department. Compliments are passed along to the staff. In the hospital where my sister works, all patients receive a survey in the mail after discharge. I'm sure some hospitals probably don't go out of their way to solicit feedback, doing the bare minimum. 

 

Hospitals who accept Medicare assignment are required by law to have a patient advocate available to their patients. It is their job to help trouble shoot problems, whether it be a communication issue, an issue of patient safety, complaints about staff or concerns about quality of care.  

 

Completed surveys, issues brought to patient advocates and the responses of the hospital are all carefully documented. 

Edited April 10, 2016 by TechWife

[KungFuPanda]

Why shouldn't I get to pick my gender?

Seriously, in 2016 people are not doing concerts (Bruce) because they believe that one should be allowed to pick their gender.

Doesn't that go both ways?

Does WHAT go both ways? No, you can't pick someone else's gender. No, you can't be sexist because it's tradition or just feels right. The hospital is legally and morally obligated to NOT cater to such whims.

[Joker]

I worked as a unit secretary on a hospital floor once. One of my duties was to answer the call button and forward that info to the appropriate person. I truly feel for patients and have been one. After that job, I also truly feel for the nurses and support staff. It seemed every patient thought they were the only one and it became difficult to juggle, especially on the night shift when the support staff is smaller.

 

The support staff, that aren't nurses, work their butts off, get little recognition, and are often looked down upon by patients. I couldn't do their job. I was asked to train for it to multi task and help more on the night shift and I refused. I think those that do it are awesome and they definitely deserve more respect than they are given. Most of them truly care and take good care of their patients and it's not right that they are treated and thought of so poorly.

 

We usually always had one male and one female but they each had their assigned rooms/patients. It became difficult when you had certain patients only want a certain gender or person. It meant more work for the nurses when there really wasn't time. Our nurses were required to round on patients in certain intervals and when patients requested them instead of support staff in cases where they weren't truly needed, it meant their rounds and other patients weren't kept up and were neglected. Then it would snowball because nurses weren't able to be in the rooms when they said they would. 

 

No one should have been rude but I honestly don't think it's a big deal to allow a male worker to escort you to the bathroom. I also don't think many realize how busy that phone can get on a hospital floor. I could see myself being a bit annoyed by you calling back to inform me that you were right about breakfast being served 30 minutes earlier. It could be that front desk person knows they open at 6:30 but food isn't coming until after 7 because that's how they do things. I wouldn't have shown my annoyance to you but I could see staff being annoyed if it had been a crazy night for them. They should have been polite even with that annoyance, though. 

[creekland]

I WAS MAKING A JOKE.

 

I was trying to bring some levity to a thread that has seriously derailed. Moderator: time to pull the plug.

 

Thank you everyone for your thoughts. You gave me a lot to think about and if I could go back -- and not be startled at midnight -- I might just do it differently. (Maybe, I'm still thinking.)

 

Alley

 

More  :grouphug:  and hope that recovery is going well for you!  (I'm well aware of how much intended jokes can be misinterpreted online... so you have my sympathy there!  Humor is such a large part of my life, and not so much part of others apparently. :coolgleamA: )

 

I'll also add that I think the variety of views that come from the Hive are the main thing that makes me resist giving up being here - at least some.  I don't get as much of a variety from my IRL circles.  It's good to assess views from different perspectives to see if one wants to hold fast to what one believes/does or perhaps change to something new due to reasoning we simply hadn't thought of before.

[Laurie4b]

Thanks City! I couldn't actually do this on my own b/c I had some things on my legs to prevent blood clots that had to be disconnected.

 

Or I would have done what your mom did!!!

 

There was a lot of rudeness. Where do you report stuff like this? The surgeon is a rock star in his field, but I don't want to take up my precious time w/ him talking about the hosp. staff.

 

Two nurses were even rude to a retired physical therapist who had taken some shits to allow younger PTs to take Spring Break off. She could have been over 70 and was very nice and they were rude to her.

 

Alley

 

Report the snippiness to patient relations. And yes, I think you should do it. 

[OnMyOwn]

Does WHAT go both ways? No, you can't pick someone else's gender. No, you can't be sexist because it's tradition or just feels right. The hospital is legally and morally obligated to NOT cater to such whims.

But you do have every right to pick who will and will not help you with an intimate task.  

[ChocolateReignRemix]

But you do have every right to pick who will and will not help you with an intimate task.  

 

Only to a point.  And getting escorted to the bathroom isn't an intimate task.

[bolt.]

But you do have every right to pick who will and will not help you with an intimate task.

Does that mean that (if you should happen to want to) you could use other criteria to pick who will and won't help you with those tasks? Could you pick them by race (for example) if that was meaningful to "you"? Or by religion, or nationality, or sexual orientation? Or by intelligence or personality?

 

Is this "right" to choose intimate-task caregivers completely unlimited? Does it have reasonable limits? How do we know what's a reasonable use of this "right" (if there are any reasonable uses of it, and if it's actually a right at all)?

[creekland]

Does that mean that (if you should happen to want to) you could use other criteria to pick who will and won't help you with those tasks? Could you pick them by ... intelligence?

 

You realize the immediate picture this brought up in my mind, right?

 

"Wait!  First I need you to answer this question.

 

If a train leaves the station heading east and travels at 70mph and another train is heading west at..."

 

:lol:

 

But still... I can understand folks discriminating against (or for) gender with intimate things and not being bothered by all that other stuff.  It might not bother me (or some others), but I can see where it's different.  There's that ideal world and real world deal at play again.  I think it'd be ideal if health care organizations could respect those who had preferences.

[KungFuPanda]

But you do have every right to pick who will and will not help you with an intimate task.

No you don't. Just because you really feel strongly about wanting something it doesn't give you a right to that thing. You could argue that everything that happens in a hospital setting is intimate because strangers are touching your body. I get that it is VERY awkward and uncomfortable for the patient. It can also make the patient feel vulnerable to be so sick and exposed while the medical staff just hums along like it's an ordinary day. It IS routine for them and they're desensitized to seeing naked bodies.

 

If you're in labor you get the OB that is on duty and available. Writing a letter to the hospital because you didn't want a man to see your nether regions will accomplish nothing. It isn't a valid complaint. You can ASK, and they can either give you your preference if staff is available or politely but firmly decline. Now, if they're hateful about it you can complain and a rude, unprofessional attitude might be taken more seriously than a gender preference.

 

No, the patient doesn't have a "right" to preferences that go beyond competent care. The sex, age, gender, race, or ethnicity of the staff is just not something the patient has any right to control.

[Guest]

Everyone always has the right to decide who touches their private parts.

 

Always.

 

Emergencies are emergencies. The very word implies they follow different rules. But just because someone is a dr or nurse...you still have the moral perogative to not allow your private parts touched by someone you dont want to touch them.

 

Hospital policies THEMSELVES allow for this freedom. And you do not have to explain yourself, not to anyone present and certainly not to the peanut gallery.

 

I know this comment does not apply to the op, but weve collectively moved past that and talking about "intimate things" more generally.

 

Bodily autonomy is human rights 101. Doubly so when we are talking about the outside sexual organs.

[Laurie4b]

No you don't. Just because you really feel strongly about wanting something it doesn't give you a right to that thing. You could argue that everything that happens in a hospital setting is intimate because strangers are touching your body. I get that it is VERY awkward and uncomfortable for the patient. It can also make the patient feel vulnerable to be so sick and exposed while the medical staff just hums along like it's an ordinary day. It IS routine for them and they're desensitized to seeing naked bodies.

 

 

No, the patient doesn't have a "right" to preferences that go beyond competent care. The sex, age, gender, race, or ethnicity of the staff is just not something the patient has any right to control.

 

Though one would wish the bolded is true, it cannot be counted on. I have had direct personal experiences that have permanently damaged my trust in male medical professionals. As I have discussed it with female friends and family members, hoping to "get over" it, about 1/3 have had some kind of sexualized experience---some "minor" and some criminal acts. No one had reported it. When I reported what happened to me as a teenager years later, the hospital's attorney attempted to minimize the man's actions. Totally disgusting. 

 

Since then, I have never had a hospital refuse my request for a female provider. 

 

I don't think there is any place for shaming a person for desiring someone of the same gender to provide personal care. 

[Danestress]

I guess if you want to know if you have a right to an attendant of your preferred gender, you have to look at the law, hospital regulations, insurance policy or wherever else that 'right' might be expressed.

 

You certainly have a right to *ask* for a female attendant even if they have a right to refuse. And You have a right to ask the hospital to consider creating a policy allowing you to demand it. I think you have a right to complain, though they may also have a right to not change anything you are complaining about.

[ebrindam]

This would have been an issue for me. While in theory I am fine with male medical professionals, I'm not comfortable with male doctors. I haven't had one in years. I wouldn't be comfortable with a male nurse either.

[Murphy101]

Wait.

 

What is "right" is right whether it's a law or policy.

 

If we make rape legal would it mean I don't have a right to not be raped? Of course not.

 

Being "escorted to the restroom" implies no intimate viewing or touching. I think most would disagree that watching someone use the toilet is NOT quite on par with being escorted like they are going on a walk.

 

And no, medical people are not desensitized to naked bodies. What a silly thing to say. They have sex drives and attractions same as the rest of the population. At best they either just aren't attracted or, one would hope, focus on being professional.

 

It also has nothing to do with the topic. Whether I think a guy is going to be turned on by seeing any of my naked parts has nothing to do with whether *I* am uncomfortable exposing myself in a non-medically necessary situation. I really don't think I'm all that over-whelmingly attractive and I doubt most people are feeling particularly sexy if they need help to go potty.

 

I'm always disturbed when basic human dignity being a right is said to not be a right unless an often arbitrary authority that the populace often has little voice in generously decides to go to the trouble of letting the populace have such rights. It's a right regardless of the law or the policy. And by all means, the goal should be to make the laws and policies catch up to what's right.

Edited April 11, 2016 by Murphy101

[Joker]

I do find this discussion interesting, especially how many look for female only providers. I'm the opposite and look for male OB/GYNs. The only bad experiences I have had were with female OB/GYNs and one even had in me in tears. I've also only ever had bad experiences with female nurses. I've never had an issue with a male doctor, nurse, or support staff and would rather have only males. That said, I don't request only a male when at the hospital. I take what I get and only request someone else if there is a problem. Even when I do request someone else at the hospital, I don't specify gender. 

[Joker]

I'm curious how people expect their preferences to be catered for logistically ? There's never been an issue of overstaffing in any hospital I've been in - so in just-staffed or understaffed situations, how do people suggest gender preference be catered for ? 

 

I just don't see how it's possible.

 

This is my question as well. When I worked in the hospital, all nurses are assigned certain patients. All support staff are assigned certain patients as well based upon room location (to make it easier to go from room to room). If a nurse is called to do something support staff should do, it takes away time from their patients. If one of their patients needs something only a nurse can attend to, then we had to call upon another nurse. There are certain things a hospital designates that support staff can tend to and certain things only nurses are allowed to tend to. It just snowballs and in the end no one is happy because no one is getting the care they need (except maybe the person who refused the help of the support staff that showed up in the first place). 

[ChocolateReignRemix]

I'm curious how people expect their preferences to be catered for logistically ? There's never been an issue of overstaffing in any hospital I've been in - so in just-staffed or understaffed situations, how do people suggest gender preference be catered for ? 

 

I just don't see how it's possible.

 

It isn't.  It is just the usual WTM navel gazing.

[Tsuga]

I'm curious how people expect their preferences to be catered for logistically ? There's never been an issue of overstaffing in any hospital I've been in - so in just-staffed or understaffed situations, how do people suggest gender preference be catered for ? 

 

I just don't see how it's possible.

 

I have to agree. I do really feel for OP as it seems that rudeness was her primary complaint, and a little kindness goes a long way.

 

However, we simply cannot let people demand medical attention from only people of a certain sex. It just is not realistic.

 

Also, I am not the customer at the hospital. My insurance company is. :( I am a customer of the insurance company, but unless this is an ultra-posh hospital and I'm paying cash, they don't have to listen to me. I paid my insurance company to pay for this no matter how much it costs, and they pay. This is why it doesn't feel like a "customer-centered" experience. It is customer-centered for the corporation paying the bills. That's why they can tell you where to go and where not to go.

 

I am not trying to diminish the frustration and humiliation that the OP must have felt, simply explaining my perspective as to the "why" of the situation.

[Guest]

Even when I do request someone else at the hospital, I don't specify gender.

Right, but a statistically significant portion of the population doesnt even feel safe being alone and/or in unusually vulnerable situation with men.

 

Like, a lot-a lot.

 

Then, there are other reasons. But because there are sooo many ppl like the above, i cant see clear to interrogate anyone about their preferences or "outmoded modesty" or whatever irt not wanting men around while they are. (NOT saying thats whst you think...just using your post as a jumping off point!)

[Guest]

I'm curious how people expect their preferences to be catered for logistically ? There's never been an issue of overstaffing in any hospital I've been in - so in just-staffed or understaffed situations, how do people suggest gender preference be catered for ?

 

I just don't see how it's possible.

I dont know or care. They need to be fully funded and have enough ppl so that nurses arent run ragged tor one.

 

But, for example, one time a nurse came in waking me from a dead sleep YELLING at me about my monitor being twisted. I....cant ....be yelled at at night. I called the nurses station and said i needed a new nurse. Im sorry if they are short staffed but there ARE other ppl there. Its not some remote rural clinic where there is no other choice but to deal. She switched me no questions asked.

Im not going to sit here and defend why i felt unsafe with that jarring, barging in nurse. The point is i did, and hospital policy allowed me to be switched caretakers. And that is the way it ought to be.

Edited April 11, 2016 by OKBud

[Mergath]

Everyone always has the right to decide who touches their private parts.

 

Always.

 

Emergencies are emergencies. The very word implies they follow different rules. But just because someone is a dr or nurse...you still have the moral perogative to not allow your private parts touched by someone you dont want to touch them.

 

Hospital policies THEMSELVES allow for this freedom. And you do not have to explain yourself, not to anyone present and certainly not to the peanut gallery.

 

I know this comment does not apply to the op, but weve collectively moved past that and talking about "intimate things" more generally.

 

Bodily autonomy is human rights 101. Doubly so when we are talking about the outside sexual organs.

 

Of course. The hospital is certainly not going to force you to let someone touch your genitals. And as the OP said, the male nurse would only have helped her into the bathroom and then waited outside.

 

However, you also don't have the right to demand that someone else (like a female nurse, for example) touch them, either. If you refuse to allow a male nurse to help you with something- like wiping, if someone needed that- the hospital doesn't HAVE to provide you with a female nurse. You're perfectly within your rights to refuse care, but they don't have to do whatever you want, either.

[Tsuga]

 

 

They need to be fully funded and have enough ppl so that nurses arent run ragged tor one.

 

Welp, my partner, my ex-H, my partner's ex-W, and I all pay at least $500/person all told for ourselves and the kids, per month.

 

I have posted on this before. People are whining about monthly premiums of $500 a month for a family, well you haven't seen anything yet! You're right, they need to be fully funded.

 

Trying to get more insurance or taxes or anything forward thinking at all out of the American people is like trying to squeeze water out of a stone. "But someone else might benefit who didn't work as hard as me!"

 

"They need to be fully funded" is such a great use of the passive voice. Who is going to fund that?!? The American people need to fully fund health care. Yeah, well, no duh. But look who we're talking about here. It's not the nurse's fault that insurance companies are refusing to pay for x, y and z and hospitals are run as for-profit corporations. "They need to be fully funded" implies a lack of agency that somehow allows us to assign blame to nurses or floor managers, but that is not who is really at fault here.

 

Also, women demanding women is just fine, just fine. Men demanding men? It isn't a right because "ought" implies "can" for both sexes, and clearly that is not possible.

 

If you have a medical condition such as PTSD that requires female care then advocate for that but we cannot have that as the standard of care. It's not realistic unless the payers choose to pay more. Like, Americans paying more for health care. And last I heard, that is not happening.

 

 

 

I....cant ....be yelled at at night.

 

 

 

The use of the word "can't" doesn't help your case. Clearly being yelled at at night will not cause you to die, whereas missing skills at key moments and having over-tired nurses making decisions actually causes death.

 

Once again, it's not a hotel and there are high-quality private options available.

 

I have faced very poor treatment at hospitals and in clinics and I do feel for you in that situation but I firmly disagree that kindness at a hospital is a right. Basic medical care does not include the right to discriminate on health care provider based on sex nor does it require kindness.

 

I dont know or care.

 

 

Well, the people who have looked into it and who care deeply about the "how" have come up with a solution that you do not agree with. So if you'd like the American people to fully fund health care, then you're going to need to figure it out, because the plans that have been proposed thus far have been soundly pronounced all-around as "unrealistic" (cutting CEO pay? pffft then nobody will want to be a CEO if they only get one yacht!) or "too expensive" (oh my god I have to pay monthly for the $315k in health care I'm going to take out over my lifetime? Not fair! I used to pay like $100/month!).

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1361028/

 

Not knowing and not caring is not going to get you anywhere.

 

Yelling at the charge nurse will, until everyone starts yelling. Then, good luck with that.

 

 

 

[Murphy101]

I'm curious how people expect their preferences to be catered for logistically ? There's never been an issue of overstaffing in any hospital I've been in - so in just-staffed or understaffed situations, how do people suggest gender preference be catered for ?

 

I just don't see how it's possible.

It is one thing to freely admit that there is not a preferred gender available. That is not the same as saying a person has no right to not want someone of the opposite gender with them while they use the toilet or have another intimate personal and not medical care need met.

 

Several people of both POVs have lamented the horrid staffing problem. Hiring more would be great. I'd fully support nurses and CNAs is striking or doing anything else to force bloated administrators to pay for more patient care staff, male and female.

 

Maybe if this were a requirement, to provide more equal gender staffing to patient needs, that would be a step in the right direction. Bc it sounds like both POVs agree it's a hazard when patients don't have enough staff. Both patients and staff are freely admitting in this thread this is a known fall risk, preventable if there were more staff of both genders.

[Guest]

"Clearly being yelled at at night will not cause you to die"

 

You could be wrong about that.

 

Its very weird that you think people shouldnt think they deserve to be treated with kindness, Tsuga.

 

I didnt yell at the charge nurse?

[ChocolateReignRemix]

It is one thing to freely admit that there is not a preferred gender available. That is not the same as saying a person has no right to not want someone of the opposite gender with them while they use the toilet or have another intimate personal and not medical care need met.

 

Several people of both POVs have lamented the horrid staffing problem. Hiring more would be great. I'd fully support nurses and CNAs is striking or doing anything else to force bloated administrators to pay for more patient care staff, male and female.

 

Maybe if this were a requirement, to provide more equal gender staffing to patient needs, that would be a step in the right direction. Bc it sounds like both POVs agree it's a hazard when patients don't have enough staff. Both patients and staff are freely admitting in this thread this is a known fall risk, preventable if there were more staff of both genders.

 

You can't require staffing based on gender and a hospital can't be expected to constantly try and anticipate what the gender breakdown would need to be on a daily basis.

[MedicMom]

At least in my area, the hospitals are not short staffed due to their funding or unwillingness to pay. They don't have enough nurses because there aren't enough applicants. The one hospital I frequent(not as a patient but as a paramedic) has 43 nurse openings. Another hospital has 8 openings on one floor alone. The hospital is perfectly willing and happy to hire and pay these people. They just can't find them.

[Tsuga]

"Clearly being yelled at at night will not cause you to die"

 

You could be wrong about that.

 

Its very weird that you think people shouldnt think they deserve to be treated with kindness, Tsuga.

 

I didnt yell at the charge nurse?

 

There is a huge difference between wanting to be treated with kindness and believing that in a world in which people are actively starving to death, children are denied emergency care, and people are losing their houses to pay for life-sustaining drugs, that kindness and a soft voice are part of basic medical care.

 

My mom has been charge nurse.

 

People yell at her all the time. If you demand that you get what you want, and they can't give it to you when you ask the first time, you will end up yelling at some point. You will yell if your life depends on it.

 

If your life depends on getting the nurse you feel comfortable with, I'm willing to bet that you will scream at the nurse to get it.

 

You should be prepared to, because in some hospitals, they won't be staffed to cater to individual nurse preference unless they think they have a lawsuit on their hands.

 

And even then, I know my friends who are nurses have had people scream their throats out and still not get a nurse who:

 

* Did not have an accent, i.e. "spoke English"

* Was a man (no male nurses there)

* Was better qualified (not black)

* Was more experienced (was at least as old as the patient's kids, who were probably retirement age)

* Was actually a doctor, as if doctors were intubating people

* Was a woman

* Wasn't so gruff

* Personal favorite here, according to my mom who is on IV special teams, from a junkie, "You people don't know how to put in a needle!" Veins of course were impossible to find. She did get it in, though.

 

Still cheaper to pay out a minor damages lawsuit than to keep a nurse on all the time because the fact is, for some people, nothing is good enough for them. So you can't avoid lawsuits because their way of lashing out at illness is to lash out at the hospital. There are many legitimate grievances but there are also many grievances that involve not getting one's way in an emergency situation. I highly doubt that you'd win a court case if you demanded that the nurse use a different tone of voice, to be honest, but who knows.

 

Everyone is special to themselves. Everyone wants kindness. We are not paying enough for that level of interaction.

 

When people are still dying from lack of care, there is not going to be public support to have an entire cadre of nurses around to suit peoples' personal preferences with respect to age, sex, race, ethnicity, national origin, or personality. 

 

As for "deserving" kindness at a public or private medical facility, no, I don't believe that. I believe in responsibilities in that regard, we are obligated to try to be kind but we do not "deserve" kindness... we deserve medical care.

 

Again, I feel bad that something bad happened to you but I don't see that as dereliction of care. It was simply an unpleasant byproduct of life in the hospital.

[Tsuga]

At least in my area, the hospitals are not short staffed due to their funding or unwillingness to pay. They don't have enough nurses because there aren't enough applicants. The one hospital I frequent(not as a patient but as a paramedic) has 43 nurse openings. Another hospital has 8 openings on one floor alone. The hospital is perfectly willing and happy to hire and pay these people. They just can't find them.

 

People burn out all the time.

 

Because getting yelled at, and pooped on, and yelled at for being pooped on.

[homeschoolin'mygirls]

Just because a hospital has jobs posted does not mean that the hospital is actively trying to fill those positions

 

And I am appalled at the derogatory comments about the male attendant 's educational status

Edited April 11, 2016 by homeschoolin'mygirls

[creekland]

But, for example, one time a nurse came in waking me from a dead sleep YELLING at me about my monitor being twisted. I....cant ....be yelled at at night. 

 

Now this brings up an interesting "what if" for my brain to work on this morning.  I can only imagine my response...   :lol:

 

Though actually, I've learned pretty well to just "take my dolls and go home" when dealing with unreasonable people, so chances are I'd have totally ignored her.  She'd also be better off not asking me to do anything for her... 'cause that wouldn't be happening in this lifetime unless I got an apology and reasonable explanation.  ("I'm sorry.  It's just been a really rough night and I'm getting stressed out with what's going on" would be good enough.)

 

I'm really glad I haven't seen these situations that many of you talk about.  I think there may be pros to semi-rural living, but even when I head down to Johns Hopkins, I've never had a nasty nurse (or doctor) - either gender.  I can tell multiple horror stories about their billing, but not their personnel.  Hubby has to handle their billing - even though I traditionally handle all of our family finances.  I can lose my patience pretty easily.  I handle all medical billing issues and payments everywhere else.  Theirs is just... hard to describe.  I take those real life stories to school so my IRL circle can share in our frustrations and laughs.  It helps me know I'm not weird wondering WTH?

[ebrindam]

Does that mean that (if you should happen to want to) you could use other criteria to pick who will and won't help you with those tasks? Could you pick them by race (for example) if that was meaningful to "you"? Or by religion, or nationality, or sexual orientation? Or by intelligence or personality?

 

Is this "right" to choose intimate-task caregivers completely unlimited? Does it have reasonable limits? How do we know what's a reasonable use of this "right" (if there are any reasonable uses of it, and if it's actually a right at all)?

 

You know what? Until we live in a culture where women are not seen as sexual objects, and where 1 in 4 women is NOT sexually assaulted in her lifetime then YES, we do have a right to choose. You don't have to  have a male escort you to the bathroom. And I'd think anyone would get that. 

[bolt.]

You know what? Until we live in a culture where women are not seen as sexual objects, and where 1 in 4 women is NOT sexually assaulted in her lifetime then YES, we do have a right to choose. You don't have to have a male escort you to the bathroom. And I'd think anyone would get that.

I understand that you are asserting the existence of this "right" -- perhaps I was asking questions because I was hoping to hear answers to them. I assure you, if I just wanted to say, "I disagree." That would have bee much shorter to type.

[MedicMom]

Just because a hospital has jobs posted does not mean that the hospital is actively trying to fill those positions

 

And I am appalled at the derogatory comments about the male attendant 's educational status

These hospitals are actively trying to fill these positions. The number of nursing school new graduates in my area are still less than demand. I can only speak for the three county range I am most familiar with, but at least in upstate New York it is a widespread issue.

[Bluegoat]

I think we could move to a model where we expect more flexibility for same sex caregivers.  It would mean different staffing practices and more male workers.  But they do this in many places.

 

I don't think its true that we couldn't decide that it is an important thing to do, either.  There are jobs where we say it is significant, and really there is no reason that intimate care could not be one of them.  But I think to be managed reasonably it would have to really acknowledged and planned for.  The main difficulty would be in places like ERs, but under those conditions I think many people will feel more comfortable with less ability to plan.

 

In some ways I think this has come up really as a result of the desire to say that women can do any job, regardless of sex differences.  So - we want to say the same thing for men as well.  But there have been cases where we have had to make changes as a result of this - you don't see  sportscasters in locker rooms in the same way, for example.

[bolt.]

I think for all "practical purposes" the system in place already in most non-emergency contexts is *already* that patients can ask for 'someone else' for any reason -- no questions asked. I think that can be used reasonably (conflict) semi-reasonably (gender) and in discriminatory ways (race, religion). The 'no questions asked' is a comfort to those who don't want to complain specifically about someone's conduct, but it's also a cover for people who hold prejudices.

 

That 'any time, any reason' doesn't seem to create the same types of staffing issues as 'same gender always available' would.

 

 

If these things are 'rights' we get into deep water and need better justifications. If they are simply accomodations for preferences, the path seems fairly smooth staffing-wise. 'We do our best but sometimes can't manage' is also a response that arrises in a preference-based model that would be completely inappropriate in a rights-based model.

 

If the op's request had not been met with attitude, I think it would have been fine. The did accommodate her request -- and most places already do. They were just poopy about doing so.

Edited April 11, 2016 by bolt.

[J-rap]

I may be missing a lot because I'm just directly responding to the OP.

 

I think the hospital staff should always be patient and courteous to its patients under nearly all circumstances.  My goodness, it's the patient who is going through the terrifying, totally strange experience, not the staff.  The staff should be bending over backwards to be kind and caring.

 

That said, I don't think we should require gender specific medical personnel in situations like that.  I do understand if you have a choice in who to choose for your yearly medical check-ups, and if you're more comfortable with a same-sex doctor.  But being in a hospital, nurses are trained to be professional and deal with all sexes.  What happens if there are four female nurses on duty one night, one male nurse, and the patients are half male and half female?  Should all of the male patients have a right to demand the one male nurse on duty?  

 

I'd rather have someone who is professional, skilled, and caring, whether it's a he or a she.  

 

I'm not saying it's not uncomfortable to have someone of the opposite sex, but I think that's just the way it needs to be sometimes and it's okay.

 

I do make exceptions for elderly women who may not be used to that at all.

[Laurie]

 

 

I'm not saying it's not uncomfortable to have someone of the opposite sex, but I think that's just the way it needs to be sometimes and it's okay.

 

I do make exceptions for elderly women who may not be used to that at all.

 

Just elderly women?    

 

How about very religious women?  Are we going to expect them to just get over it and accept the new ways, too?   http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/01/health/01patients.html?_r=0

[shawthorne44]

I wouldn't leave a family member alone in the hospital.   I even have the number of someone with lots of medical initials after her name to hire if/when a family member is in the hospital.     Although, the male nurse wouldn't have bothered me. My concern would be bigger things like someone with MRSA being made a roommate.    Everyone entering the room not completely washing their hands immediately on entering the room.  Drugs not given in the right dose or frequency. 

 

I've had friends that either this has happened to, or one of their immediate family members.  In one case, the father died from hospital acquired MRSA.   In the other case a friend had two days of agony that was ignored while the nurse was giving 1/10th the dose after back surgery.   Not as big of a deal, but I personally had many hours of vomiting after an appendectomy because the nurse didn't give the anti-nauseous medicine that is always given with Demorral.   

 

 

[J-rap]

Just elderly women?    

 

How about very religious women?  Are we going to expect them to just get over it and accept the new ways, too?   http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/01/health/01patients.html?_r=0

 

Well, yes, because times are changing.  In our mothers' (mine is 88) day, there were no male nurses, ever.  

 

Nowadays, in an emergency hospital setting, there might be only male nurses on staff, for example.  That's not to say that it's not uncomfortable, still.  I totally understand that.  But we can't expect a hospital to have enough female nurses on staff at all times to accommodate its female patients.  Nowadays, there just might be more male nurses on duty during a given shift.  It's quality care and staffing that needs to take priority.  

 

Also, I'm not saying a hospital should bend over backwards to accommodate elderly women either.  I'm just saying that I understand how it would be especially difficult for them.

[MeghansMom]

I am sorry for your experience. I am glad you are home now and pray for a speedy recovery.