Curious: I had a not-so-great hospital experience. Am I too picky?

[TechWife]

It sounded to me like there were only two people on for the night, the RN and the CNA.  So, requesting a female CNA was probably not possible, or would have involved getting someone from a different unit.

 

Getting a CNA or even a nurse from another unit is not uncommon, especially when patient needs dictate it.  Male CNA's sometimes float around the entire hospital, especially at night. Sometimes they are the only one's strong enough to lift a patient that has fallen or is "stuck" in a position where a lift can't be used. Yes, they also go to help with bathroom needs if called upon. 

[Tsuga]

I think the man's concerns would be taken seriously. Men may be accustomed to receiving care from female nurses, but that doesn't mean they are comfortable with it. I also don't think we should be required to "get used to" someone of the opposite sex helping us with a very personal matter where touching is involved. Gender equality in careers doesn't mean that people are forced to receive personal care from someone they are uncomfortable with. Patient care is all about the patients, not about the nurses.

My mom and sister deal with this daily. There are nowhere near the male nurses available for this. When necessary, security is called to inform the man that the nurse is responsible for this part of his care and it's this or discharge but no he does not get to choose the sex, race, age, or anything else about is medical provider. Some men throw hissy fits.

 

I Agree that a lot can be done for need but modesty is, for better or worse, not considered a need.

Edited April 8, 2016 by Tsuga

[Murphy101]

I think men would be treated worse for asking not to have a female caregiver. They'd be looked at skeptically and their manhood questioned. Bc men are supposed to like the whole female sexy nurse thing. I suspect men are often more uncomfortable than our society portrays them as being.

 

I don't usually mind male nurses, but no, I'll either go to the bathroom alone or not at all if I had to have one.

 

I've had male OBGYNs, but never alone. They have always had a female in the room as well. And I always have the option of refusing their care too. I don't ever HAVE to let a male give me a pelvic or check for dilation for example.

[Bluegoat]

I think the man's concerns would be taken seriously. Men may be accustomed to receiving care from female nurses, but that doesn't mean they are comfortable with it. I also don't think we should be required to "get used to" someone of the opposite sex helping us with a very personal matter where touching is involved. Gender equality in careers doesn't mean that people are forced to receive personal care from someone they are uncomfortable with. Patient care is all about the patients, not about the nurses. 

 

This ignores though that there is a very strong learned cultural element to these kinds of feelings.  A lot of them just come from what we are used to.  We can understand that it is authetic feeling without saying it is something we want to perpetuate.

 

We might understand the feelings someone who doesn't want to see a gay or Muslim doctor, or a man who won't see women doctors, and even support their right to choose a physician on that basis, but we probably would not say that is something that we want to support as a social attitude. 

 

It wasn't that long ago that people could be pretty harsh about the feelings of men that would not see women doctors, and I suspect you'd see something similar if someone came out and said they didn't want to see a gay doctor- it would at least be seen as something that would ideally go the way of the dodo.

[Bluegoat]

I think men would be treated worse for asking not to have a female caregiver. They'd be looked at skeptically and their manhood questioned. Bc men are supposed to like the whole female sexy nurse thing. I suspect men are often more uncomfortable than our society portrays them as being.

 

I don't usually mind male nurses, but no, I'll either go to the bathroom alone or not at all if I had to have one.

 

I've had male OBGYNs, but never alone. They have always had a female in the room as well. And I always have the option of refusing their care too. I don't ever HAVE to let a male give me a pelvic or check for dilation for example.

 

I think in truth most people who haven't been in hospital or care are uncomfortable with it for personal things.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Well I think it's a bit unfair to dismiss a male nurse, but then again you are the "customer" and if that made you uncomfortable then so be it. 

 

I do notice that you have to literally be a complete demanding a-hole to get decent treatment.  It was that way when my mother was in and out for cancer.  Really just getting a stupid box of tissues was a major production.  I often had spats with the staff.

 

I would have just gotten up and gone to the bathroom on my own.  I'm not cooperative as a rule though so...

 

 

[fairfarmhand]

 

Somehow medical care, for *me*, is somewhat different than personal care (taking someone to a restroom).

 

I'm not making a moral pronouncement about what should or should not be acceptable to others, though.

 

Yes, this.

[TechWife]

This ignores though that there is a very strong learned cultural element to these kinds of feelings.  A lot of them just come from what we are used to.  We can understand that it is authetic feeling without saying it is something we want to perpetuate.

 

We might understand the feelings someone who doesn't want to see a gay or Muslim doctor, or a man who won't see women doctors, and even support their right to choose a physician on that basis, but we probably would not say that is something that we want to support as a social attitude. 

 

It wasn't that long ago that people could be pretty harsh about the feelings of men that would not see women doctors, and I suspect you'd see something similar if someone came out and said they didn't want to see a gay doctor- it would at least be seen as something that would ideally go the way of the dodo.

 

In my viewpoint, the differences between male genitals and female genitals aren't cultural. It is biology that when a woman wipes herself, genitals are often involved, especially if one is sick. If a woman doesn't want either a man or a woman to touch her, that's fine with me. I don't want that respect for the autonomy of the human body to go away, ever. 

Edited April 8, 2016 by TechWife

[eternalsummer]

Where does the cultural element come from, though?  I would argue that it comes from a pretty deep-seated instinct, which itself is compatible with the way human societies have worked for ages.  The differences in some of your examples (Muslim doctor, for instance) and this case is the intersection of gender and sexuality and personal care - these things do have connections to our natural, instinctive, and socially-learned feelings and beliefs.  Whether a doctor or nurse is a Muslim has nothing to do with sexuality and physical privacy; whether a doctor or nurse is gay has something to do with it but perhaps somewhat less than gender; whether a doctor or nurse is male or female is directly related to feelings about sex and personal physical privacy.

 

I mean, bluegoat, do you think all bathrooms and changing rooms must be made gender-neutral?  Should there be no nudity laws?  Should boys and girls be encouraged to dress in the same clothing and have the same hairstyles and pursue the same interests?  Why?  What social benefit is there to that, separate from saying it is progress?  Who is it progress for, and what towards?

 

In general I have zero interest debating socio-cultural topics on this board, so I am jetting off to do some work; I just wanted to say to the OP that I understand; it is not an unnatural or antisocial or wrong feeling.

 

 

[SparklyUnicorn]

But in terms of why you felt so emotional,, I think your reaction is understandable.  It's not fun being in such a vulnerable situation.  I don't like having to rely on people for basic stuff like going to the bathroom.  So when I'm in the hospital I feel the same way.  The whole experience just sucks arse. 

[hornblower]

 

I mean, bluegoat, do you think all bathrooms and changing rooms must be made gender-neutral?  Should there be no nudity laws?  Should boys and girls be encouraged to dress in the same clothing and have the same hairstyles and pursue the same interests?  Why?

 

 

 

My answer to your questions is pretty much yes. 

[TechWife]

 

 

I do notice that you have to literally be a complete demanding a-hole to get decent treatment.  It was that way when my mother was in and out for cancer.  Really just getting a stupid box of tissues was a major production.  I often had spats with the staff.

 

 

I'm a  bit spoiled, I think. I live in an area where there is excellent patient care in the hospitals. Not so where my mother lives. This last time she was in the hospital, everything we asked about was met with an attitude (yes, I talked to the patient advocate). My sister is a nurse and our entire family is very kind to and patient with nurses. We understand the stress and level of activity involved. But the thing is, patient care is what a nurse does and if a nurse can't provide care without displaying a poor attitude to the patient and/or the family, the nurse needs to find another line of work as soon as possible. 

[gardenmom5]

I'

The female RN came in clearly annoyed and said, "I was in the room with another patient. Scott is my nurse and he helps me out." She took me to the rest room, but I'd clearly messed up.

 

L

 

her nurse?????  or her 'assistant'?  was he an actual  nurse? (if so, he'd have his own patients - and not helping her.)

you didn't mess up.  she was out of line to show annoyance. 

 

it would have been better if he'd said she was with a patient, he could help you now - or you could choose to wait until she was available.

 

I'd probably push for more info from the hospital.

 

in any case - your nurse  was out of line for making you feel you messed up because you wanted a woman to help you.  I would contact the hospital administration about it too.

[SparklyUnicorn]

My answer to your questions is pretty much yes. 

 

Hm...interesting response.  Why do you think so?

 

And I guess I wonder if things have become separated naturally or artificially.  Maybe a bit of both.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I'm a  bit spoiled, I think. I live in an area where there is excellent patient care in the hospitals. Not so where my mother lives. This last time she was in the hospital, everything we asked about was met with an attitude (yes, I talked to the patient advocate). My sister is a nurse and our entire family is very kind to and patient with nurses. We understand the stress and level of activity involved. But the thing is, patient care is what a nurse does and if a nurse can't provide care without displaying a poor attitude to the patient and/or the family, the nurse needs to find another line of work as soon as possible. 

 

Yeah I do not entirely blame the staff.  I think they were just short staffed regularly.  At that point in time I was working as a social worker in a nursing home.  And I know the people who get the best care are those with demanding family members.  Sad, but true.

[SparklyUnicorn]

her nurse?????  or her 'assistant'?  was he an actual  nurse? (if so, he'd have his own patients - and not helping her.)

you didn't mess up.  she was out of line to show annoyance. 

 

it would have been better if he'd said she was with a patient, he could help you now - or you could choose to wait until she was available.

 

I'd probably push for more info from the hospital.

 

in any case - your nurse  was out of line for making you feel you messed up because you wanted a woman to help you.  I would contact the hospital administration about it too.

 

Why would it matter?  I think it is fine if the patient does not want a male whatever helping her to the bathroom.  Whatever his actual title shouldn't matter though.  I assume he wasn't a random male wondering through the hospital that the head nurse grabbed to help with patient care.

[Murphy101]

This ignores though that there is a very strong learned cultural element to these kinds of feelings. A lot of them just come from what we are used to. We can understand that it is authetic feeling without saying it is something we want to perpetuate.

 

We might understand the feelings someone who doesn't want to see a gay or Muslim doctor, or a man who won't see women doctors, and even support their right to choose a physician on that basis, but we probably would not say that is something that we want to support as a social attitude.

 

It wasn't that long ago that people could be pretty harsh about the feelings of men that would not see women doctors, and I suspect you'd see something similar if someone came out and said they didn't want to see a gay doctor- it would at least be seen as something that would ideally go the way of the dodo.

I totally want to support and perpetuate people feeling comfortable with who is giving them care in our society. I sure hope it doesn't go the way of the dodo and I doubt it ever will. Because who we are does affect our decisions. From both sides of the hospital bed I bet.

 

I guess for me, why would someone even know unless they were acting or talking in a manner that made it apparent? And if so, then I can understand why some people would be uncomfortable by that.

 

I've had medical providers who were not nice or very professional IMO just bc I'm Catholic and or have too many kids according to them. And when possible, I requested a change for that reason. They might say it was because they were of a different faith or sexuality. But in fact, it was bc they couldn't respect a patient who held different views in a professional manner. Those that could do that? I likely either didn't know or care about our differences.

 

It's a lot harder to ignore gender differences though. I don't think pretending gender doesn't exist is healthier or realistic for society or medical care.

[Bluegoat]

Where does the cultural element come from, though?  I would argue that it comes from a pretty deep-seated instinct, which itself is compatible with the way human societies have worked for ages.  The differences in some of your examples (Muslim doctor, for instance) and this case is the intersection of gender and sexuality and personal care - these things do have connections to our natural, instinctive, and socially-learned feelings and beliefs.  Whether a doctor or nurse is a Muslim has nothing to do with sexuality and physical privacy; whether a doctor or nurse is gay has something to do with it but perhaps somewhat less than gender; whether a doctor or nurse is male or female is directly related to feelings about sex and personal physical privacy.

 

I mean, bluegoat, do you think all bathrooms and changing rooms must be made gender-neutral?  Should there be no nudity laws?  Should boys and girls be encouraged to dress in the same clothing and have the same hairstyles and pursue the same interests?  Why?  What social benefit is there to that, separate from saying it is progress?  Who is it progress for, and what towards?

 

In general I have zero interest debating socio-cultural topics on this board, so I am jetting off to do some work; I just wanted to say to the OP that I understand; it is not an unnatural or antisocial or wrong feeling.

 

I would say that I think, if we wanted to, we could have gender neutral changing rooms.  There are planty of places where male and female nudity are not considered same-sex only things.  People who are used to opposite sex nurses don't generally mind them - if they did, we would see people demanding that men have male nurses, which is actually unusual in our society.  There is no intrinsic reason that women should be less able to feel this is normal than men.

 

I also think it is ok to have more separation than that.  For example, societies where there are more strict expectations about clothing, or men and women have health care workers of their same sex.  You would not see, say, male midwives in such a society.

 

I think both of those kinds of societies work, can be fair, and in a way are reflecting a kind of truth.

 

I think what does not work well is to be very inconsistent on it.  And this goes both within and without the workplace.  If we really want to tell people that sex and gender do not make an intrinsic difference in the workplace - and that is what we do say, whether we are accommodating or not - we had best try and reflect that in our reactions and choices.  People smell inconsistency in these things, I think - if we treat sex and gender as if they matter sometimes but not others - we can say we won't accept care from someone of one gender - but then we object to hiring or making other kinds of decisions on that basis, people are not going to take seriously the original claim.

 

If we want to make distinctions of principle, I think it should be done openly.  If people cannot be expected to be comfortable with persons of the opposite sex offering personal care, because their is something intrinsic about sex that determines that, then it should be in the open, and it should be reflected in the make-up of staff.

 

I think as a society we've actually gone a long way down the path to not recognizing the difference as intrinsic, even constitutionally, and I don't think we could go back without reconsidering a fair number of decisions that are already taken for granted.  Human rights decisions could look rather different.  If women can object to nursing care on the basis of intrinsic gender differences, we can't ignore soldiers who object to mixed units on that basis, for example.  Maybe we can't even object to nurses who won't care for opposite sex people in intimate ways.

[Murphy101]

I'm biased though. The hospitals in my region are total shit imnsho. The advertising and talk is great but have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the actual care you end up with once they get you on the gurney. They are all short staffed and often poorly staffed. They rarely actually practice what many in other regions have come to think of as common practices. Imnsho, you are taking your life into jeapardy if you enter or stay in them without a family member staying with you.

 

For this reason, it might be very difficult to get any change in who provides care, but if necessary I will pitch a fit for it if I feel the person is unprofessional, making me uncomfortable, or isn't doing an adaquate job. I try to be nice and make their job easier. But I've learned the very very hard way to trust my gut. Every time I don't, I regret it so you'd think I'd not have a problem doing it but no. I always second and third and fourth guess myself that I'm being unreasonable and emotional/hormonal before I finally do say something or by then it's too late and I'm already in the big regrets phase.

[TCB]

The charge nurse simply changes nurse assignments around. Their unwillingness to do this has nothing to do with their staffing levels. They should be staffed appropriately at all times. . 

 

If only this were true! It maybe should be, but, unfortunately, in the health system in this country, bare-bones staffing is the daily reality. There is no excuse for rudeness. However, I think people's expectations are often unrealistic. I'm sorry there are rude, incompetent nurses, and I know there are. But a lot of us are really working hard, within the constraints of the system, to look after people as well as we possibly can.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Yeah I don't know if it is intrinsic or not.  I suspect a bit of both really. 

 

Interestingly, my mother was icked out by the idea of having a female OBGYN.  She would say stuff like why would a woman want to see women naked, is she a lesbian.  Silly in my mind, but I have always preferred to have a female OBGYN mostly because it seemed to me that a woman would understand better what I'm going through.  I find it odd that men would want to be OBGYNs.  Whether or not this is right, fair, or nice doesn't matter. People feel how they feel.

 

 

[Bluegoat]

I totally want to support and perpetuate people feeling comfortable with who is giving them care in our society. I sure hope it doesn't go the way of the dodo and I doubt it ever will. Because who we are does affect our decisions. From both sides of the hospital bed I bet.

 

I guess for me, why would someone even know unless they were acting or talking in a manner that made it apparent? And if so, then I can understand why some people would be uncomfortable by that.

 

I've had medical providers who were not nice or very professional IMO just bc I'm Catholic and or have too many kids according to them. And when possible, I requested a change for that reason. They might say it was because they were of a different faith or sexuality. But in fact, it was bc they couldn't respect a patient who held different views in a professional manner. Those that could do that? I likely either didn't know or care about our differences.

 

It's a lot harder to ignore gender differences though. I don't think pretending gender doesn't exist is healthier or realistic for society or medical care.

 

Well I am thinking from the POV of the patient.  Yes, someone could not want to see, say, a Muslim doctor, but no one would know, and that at least would avoid hurting people's feelings.  And it could be in other cases that people misinterpret reasons.

 

But the patient of course knows, and also their is the objective fact.  I would say, as an objective statement, that refusing Muslim doctors is not a good thing, and doesn't really make rational sense in most normal scenarios.  I would tend to discourage people from doing it.  And on an individual basis, I would hope that people who felt that way would come to realize that it is essentially a prejudice.

[Murphy101]

I think sex/gender do very much make a difference. I think denying this is lying about who people are on a basic biological level.

 

Different should not be taken to mean "lesser" or "bad".

 

If the only way a woman can be viewed as equal to man is if she denies her womanhood and everyone has to pretend it doesn't exist, that's a gross perversion of feminism IMO. Same goes for men.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Well I am thinking from the POV of the patient.  Yes, someone could not want to see, say, a Muslim doctor, but no one would know, and that at least would avoid hurting people's feelings.  And it could be in other cases that people misinterpret reasons.

 

But the patient of course knows, and also their is the objective fact.  I would say, as an objective statement, that refusing Muslim doctors is not a good thing, and doesn't really make rational sense in most normal scenarios.  I would tend to discourage people from doing it.  And on an individual basis, I would hope that people who felt that way would come to realize that it is essentially a prejudice.

 

I could care less if a doctor is Muslim, but I admit that if a female Muslim was dressed head to toe in traditional religious garb and was my nurse, I'd feel uncomfortable. There is just something about having them hidden in that way that makes me feel uncomfortable.  Would I get over it?  Probably.  And it wouldn't matter to me at all in some situations.  For example, a Muslim woman checking out my groceries at the store...I don't care.  But if you are going to get very personal and touch me, that idea makes me uncomfortable. 

[SparklyUnicorn]

I think sex/gender do very much make a difference. I think denying this is lying about who people are on a basic biological level.

 

Different should not be taken to mean "lesser" or "bad".

 

If the only way a woman can be viewed as equal to man is if she denies her womanhood and everyone has to pretend it doesn't exist, that's a gross perversion of feminism IMO. Same goes for men.

 

Yes definitely.  I mean it doesn't matter to every single man and every single woman.  Some men and women just don't care about those details, but it seems wrong to deny that plenty of men and women have their particular feelings about this.

[Southern Ivy]

I don't know if someone mentioned this already, but you are allowed to say you don't want a certain person taking care of you. 
I had a horrible nurses aid when I was in the hospital. She would belittle me and talk about how she was up and walking around after my type of surgery. (I had gallbladder surgery, but prior I had some of the worst pancreatitis they had ever seen. So, I was horribly swollen and still in severe pain.) She would gripe about having to come and help me to the restroom, gripe when I would call for meds (and I'm pretty sure that a couple of times she didn't tell the head nurse I was wanting more meds). 

My "roommate" had worked in hospitals before and was appalled at the treatment. She told the head nurse and told me to request that that lady not be in my room anymore. She was reassigned that night and the rest of the visit was great (as far as hospitals go). 

[SparklyUnicorn]

Some of this is probably cultural too.  My husband, from Germany, thinks it is kind of funny the lengths medical staff go to cover patients up.  Stuff like hospital gowns and curtains.  Apparently in Germany they aren't as into that. 

[Murphy101]

Well I am thinking from the POV of the patient. Yes, someone could not want to see, say, a Muslim doctor, but no one would know, and that at least would avoid hurting people's feelings. And it could be in other cases that people misinterpret reasons.

 

But the patient of course knows, and also their is the objective fact. I would say, as an objective statement, that refusing Muslim doctors is not a good thing, and doesn't really make rational sense in most normal scenarios. I would tend to discourage people from doing it. And on an individual basis, I would hope that people who felt that way would come to realize that it is essentially a prejudice.

I would say it depends on why they feel that way.

 

For example, let's say I once left a lesbian prochoice OBGYN. When I first went to her I had no idea. It wasn't on my list of things to ask my new dr. But by the third appointment it bc very clear she couldn't seperate her views of Catholics and women who have many children from her job and I didn't want her giving me care anymore. So. If I leave her was it bc I'm Roman Catholic or did I leave her bc she was a lesbian? Was I prejudiced bc I wanted respectful professional care or bc she couldn't separate her personal situation from her professional duties?

 

I might feel the same about a Muslim. For the most part, why would I even know? For the second part, so they are Muslim. No big. Ah. But the third part is the tricky part. Did I feel that our differences were affecting my medical care? If so, then I absolutely should seek other care if possible. Now we can argue whether the patient perception is accurate or not. i would argue that if the patient perceive it is - then it is. Bc if nothing else it will affect the patients response to the medical care.

[JFSinIL]

I had male and female nurses after the car crash both in hospital and rehab. Figured a male nurse was as trained and experienced dealing with sick or broken human bodies as a female nurse, and refusing help from a nurse just due to their gender would be insulting of me. Although most of the time I felt too out of it to care who helped me.

Edited April 8, 2016 by JFSinIL

[SparklyUnicorn]

I would say it depends on why they feel that way.

 

For example, let's say I once left a lesbian prochoice OBGYN. When I first went to her I had no idea. It wasn't on my list of things to ask my new dr. But by the third appointment it bc very clear she couldn't seperate her views of Catholics and women who have many children from her job and I didn't want her giving me care anymore. So. If I leave her was it bc I'm Roman Catholic or did I leave her bc she was a lesbian? Was I prejudiced bc I wanted respectful professional care or bc she couldn't separate her personal situation from her professional duties?

 

I might feel the same about a Muslim. For the most part, why would I even know? For the second part, so they are Muslim. No big. Ah. But the third part is the tricky part. Did I feel that our differences were affecting my medical care? If so, then I absolutely should seek other care if possible. Now we can argue whether the patient perception is accurate or not. i would argue that if the patient perceive it is - then it is. Bc if nothing else it will affect the patients response to the medical care.

 

Oh yuck.  No she was being extremely unprofessional.

 

I went to a practice with 6 midwives.  So the deal was you could end up with any one of them during appointments or delivery.  There was one I clashed with pretty heavily.  Thank goodness she didn't deliver my kid.  I avoided her.  If she were the only choice there I would have gone elsewhere. 

[Butter]

Sounds all typical, honestly.  I'm sorry you felt it was a bad experience.  Your doctor, before the surgery, should have told you what to expect post-op.  No, they are not going to let you up alone after surgery.  That's dangerous.  You were a fall risk.  You rang because you needed to use the bathroom.  Your assigned nurse was in assisting another patient so the person working with her at that time came in to help you.  Sure, you can ask for a female, but, trust me, they are very, very, very used to dealing with the opposite sex in.  After my surgery in November I had a male nurse.  It never even occurred to me that that was weird that he was helping me do things (and I had had gyn surgery!).  It's unfortunately you felt the nurse was snippy when she said her assistant could've helped you.  But I'm truly not seeing anything strange or unusual in what you described other than your feeling the nurse was snippy with you.

[Murphy101]

For the record, it was a hypothetical. To the best of my knowledge I've never had a lesbian Doctor. I've had doctors who were prochoice and had the professionalism to keep their mouth shut about it with a Catholic patient.

 

But I've had a LOT of unprofessional medical care from people who took it upon themselves to teach me a lesson about having too many kids. Lots and lots of "caregivers" who were hateful and belittling and condescending to me because "You'd think if you didn't like this, you'd stop having babies then!" And "you sure you don't your tubes done while you're here? We don't have to tell your dh. And you know, the Pope isn't the one giving birth to all these kids."

 

These are actual comments I've gotten. Often while dealing with tremendous pain and or in a very stressful situation. The comments had zero to do with my medical care. But it absolutely affected my perspective of their ability to provide that care professionally.

Edited April 8, 2016 by Murphy101

[SparklyUnicorn]

For the record, it was a hypothetical. To the best of my knowledge I've never had a lesbian Doctor. I've had doctors who were prochoice and had the professionalism to keep their mouth shut about it with a Catholic patient.

 

But I've had a LOT of unprofessional medical care from people who took it upon themselves to teach me a lesson about having too many kids. Lots and lots of "caregivers" who were hateful and belittling and condescending to me because "You'd think if you didn't like this, you'd stop having babies then!" And "you sure you don't your tubes done while you're here? We don't have to tell your dh. And you know, the Pope isn't the one giving birth to all these kids."

 

These are actual comments I've gotten. Often while dealing with tremendous pain and or in a very stressful situation. The comments had zero to do with my medical care. But it absolutely affected my perspective of their ability to provide that care professionally.

 

That's disgusting.  Those comments are just way out of line. 

 

The midwife I mention was against the idea I did not want to breast feed.  She made very obnoxious comments about it.  She even said that I'd be causing my child brain damage and lowering his IQ.  What an a-hole. 

[mathnerd]

I had an emergency delivery - the doctor on call was a male OB-GYN who was extremely professional and kind. There were female nurses and another female OB-GYN assisting in the emergency, but he was the main doctor. Until then, I have always asked for female doctors and aides. But, seeing how he acted, I did not feel any difference between my regular female OB-GYN and this male doctor. This male doctor even advised me after birth about the importance of bonding with my child and how to breastfeed before he left to help with another emergency delivery. After this experience, I don't have specific preference to seeing only female doctors and nurses.

[TechWife]

If only this were true! It maybe should be, but, unfortunately, in the health system in this country, bare-bones staffing is the daily reality. There is no excuse for rudeness. However, I think people's expectations are often unrealistic. I'm sorry there are rude, incompetent nurses, and I know there are. But a lot of us are really working hard, within the constraints of the system, to look after people as well as we possibly can.

 

A charge nurse can and should change the nurse when a patient complains about their care, be it their physical care or their social/emotional care. This can be done while at the same time balancing nursing case loads as best as possible (not always possible, but it is often possible). 

Nurse A has seven patients, numbers 1 - 7.

Nurse B has seven patients, numbers 8-14. 

Nurse A has a crappy attitude towards patient #6 and patient complains to the charge nurse.

The charge nurse takes patient #6 off from nurse A gives them to Nurse B. The charge nurse then takes Patient #8 (who has similar care needs as patient #6) from nurse B and gives them to patient A. 

Nurse A has seven patients, numbers 1-5, 7,8

Nurse B has seven patients, numbers 6, 9-14.

 

As far as unrealistic expectations go - well, if I ask a nurse if my mom can have pain medicine, that's not an unrealistic expectation. If I ask a nurse how to care for my mother when she gets home, that's not an unrealistic expectation. If I ask for room service for my lunch, that's an unrealistic explanation. Again, I live in an area with excellent medical care. Maybe that, and competition between hospitals, ramps up the level of care, I don't know. I can only tell you of my experiences with nurses who go above and beyond what is called for in taking care of both the patient and their families. 

 

Adequate staffing is another issue entirely. If a hospital is so inadequately staffed that their patient care is below par, the problem is likely systemic and there is no easy fix. 

[Alicia64]

 

Male nurses have a really rough time being accepted. One of our good friends is one, and he had such a horrible time being insulted by patients and families (too stupid to be a doctor, accused of being a pervert and being a nurse just to touch unconscious women--all stuff no one would say to a doctor!) that he went back to school as quickly as possible (nights/weekends on top of working full time and overtime because the hospital was chronically understaffed) way before they'd planned on it to get into administration.

 

 

 

Zoobie: Hey, Friend. Afraid I'm about to bring down the wrath on me. . . the young man who was trying to be helpful wasn't an RN. I don't mind male RNs in the least. (Why does a lot of training and boards matter? I don't know but it does. All of the drs. were male. No problem.)

 

This man might have been an LVN and I don't know their training. My mom was an RN so I know all that an RN has to go through.

 

Typing on narcotics. I'm afraid I just offended every male LVN!!

 

But it like calling everyone who works in the library a librarian. They aren't.

 

Alley

[Bluegoat]

I think sex/gender do very much make a difference. I think denying this is lying about who people are on a basic biological level.

 

Different should not be taken to mean "lesser" or "bad".

 

If the only way a woman can be viewed as equal to man is if she denies her womanhood and everyone has to pretend it doesn't exist, that's a gross perversion of feminism IMO. Same goes for men.

 

Well, I think biology is real, and maleness and femaleness are real and even intrinsic.

 

But, I think if this was as significant an issue as you are suggesting, we would already have a practice of having male caregivers for men, and female for women.  That hasn't been the practice in our culture for quite a long time, it is only recently that it has been more common to have male nurses at all, or female doctors to do things like pelvic exams.

 

Did our traditional, pre-feminist practice, require men to deny their masculinity?  I don't really think so.  The only difference I really see with the introduction of male nurses is that we are more comfortable with the idea that men can be in caring roles, and that it is newer so more likely to feel weird to people.

 

ETA - in general, most people feel queer about someone helping them with intimate tasks.  Usually it gets better once you do it because people act professionally, and you see that it is not a sexual thing to do that work.  I don't think gender is actually much different in that scenario - it feels odd at first for similar reasons that having someone wipe your butt feels odd at all, but it turns out to be fairly unimportant.

Edited April 8, 2016 by Bluegoat

[SparklyUnicorn]

Zoobie: Hey, Friend. Afraid I'm about to bring down the wrath on me. . . the young man who was trying to be helpful wasn't an RN. I don't mind male RNs in the least. (Why does a lot of training and boards matter? I don't know but it does. All of the drs. were male. No problem.)

 

This man might have been an LVN and I don't know their training. My mom was an RN so I know all that an RN has to go through.

 

Typing on narcotics. I'm afraid I just offended every male LVN!!

 

But it like calling everyone who works in the library a librarian. They aren't.

 

Alley

 

I don't think the differences are huge. 

[Reefgazer]

I don't mind male nurses, but I also don't think you are being unreasonable at all; they know darned well that many people are uncomfortable with private care from someone of another sex, and they should accommodate patients' needs in that regard.  Mentally, I would have told that nurse to go screw herself.  No, actually, I would have gotten up and gone peed on my own, because I am bitchy that way. 

Edited April 8, 2016 by reefgazer

[Alicia64]

I don't think the differences are huge. 

 

They are huge.

 

And a nurse practitioner has way more training than an RN.

 

Alley

Edited April 8, 2016 by Alicia64

[ChocolateReignRemix]

Was the male nurse walking the OP to the bathroom or assisting her in the bathroom? The two are not the same.

 

Based on the OP, the situation with the nurse doesn't warrant a complaint.

[SparklyUnicorn]

They are huge.

 

And a nurse practitioner has way more training than an RN.

 

Alley

 

I don't think that is true.  But either way we aren't talking that the nurse grabbed the janitor to help you.

[zoobie]

Zoobie: Hey, Friend. Afraid I'm about to bring down the wrath on me. . . the young man who was trying to be helpful wasn't an RN. I don't mind male RNs in the least. (Why does a lot of training and boards matter? I don't know but it does. All of the drs. were male. No problem.)

 

This man might have been an LVN and I don't know their training. My mom was an RN so I know all that an RN has to go through.

 

Typing on narcotics. I'm afraid I just offended every male LVN!!

 

But it like calling everyone who works in the library a librarian. They aren't.

 

Alley

 

I'm sure you weren't awful to him! I was awful to the poor guy delivering meals when he barged in the room without knocking while the nurse was cleaning things below and checking the catheter after my first c/s. Pain meds and anesthesia and the stress of the hospital do a number on you. I totally get not being able to handle one.more.thing. 

 

LVN/LPNs have one year of voc ed and an exam. CNAs are the ones with zero required training other than a GED or high school diploma. I wouldn't be of the mind to check badges and such in the middle of the night. I've never had anything other than a female nurse or whatever health care person come in, but I've only been hospitalized for babies. Maybe fewer in the OB specialty? 

[Alicia64]

Was the male nurse walking the OP to the bathroom or assisting her in the bathroom? The two are not the same.

 

Based on the OP, the situation with the nurse doesn't warrant a complaint.

 

Oh, I'm not going to complain about the male helper. There was actual bad things happening. I could go on and on. It was almost a comedy of errors except it could kill somebody.

 

The male helper was meant to help me out of bed, hold my gown-thing closed so my tush didn't hang out and assist me to the potty. Then he waits -- hopefully w/ the door closed -- not all female staff bothered closing the door for some privacy. Then he walks me back to bed.

 

I assume he helps people wipe who need it. I didn't.

 

My grandma would have been mortified.A

 

Alley

[hornblower]

I don't think the differences are huge. 

 

The scope of practice and the education are different. Being an RN is not at all the same as being a practical or vocational nurse or being an aide. It's just not. 

 

In Canada, you can't be an RN without a 4 year bachelor's degree. In the US I know you still have 2 year trained RNs but still, they have to pass the NCLEX and their scope of practice is different.

 

And an NP and PA are different than an RN. 

 

It's really not ok to lump them all together.  

[SparklyUnicorn]

Ok but to be clear I think you are well within your right to not want him to help you to the bathroom. 

 

 

Edited April 8, 2016 by SparklyUnicorn

[SparklyUnicorn]

The scope of practice and the education are different. Being an RN is not at all the same as being a practical or vocational nurse or being an aide. It's just not. 

 

In Canada, you can't be an RN without a 4 year bachelor's degree. In the US I know you still have 2 year trained RNs but still, they have to pass the NCLEX and their scope of practice is different.

 

And an NP and PA are different than an RN. 

 

It's really not ok to lump them all together.  

 

Ok fair enough, but again he is an LVN and not a janitor.  I'm sure he has been trained to handle assisting someone in a bathroom. 

[Reefgazer]

I've gotten asked that at the military hospital where we go for care.  I always ask for the male OB/GYNs.  The female staff members I've had contact with there are nuts.

This must vary, I have never been asked that.  

 

Regardless, I'd say it is easier to take preference into account for a routine office appointment, much harder in a hospital. Not that I blame you for asking - you were tired and in pain and it was the middle of the night. 

 

But I also don't blame the nurse for trying to explain that it's part of his job, as long as he was polite. I see females refusing the help of a male nurse as akin to the days when men would refuse the services of a female doctor - the reasons are different, but in both cases the person is being told they can't do their job because of their gender. 

 

The overall rudeness of the staff is a problem and should be reported. Just go to the hospital's web site and you should be able to find forms and phone numbers. Good search terms are ombudsman, grievance, patient satisfaction, complaint. You may want to start writing things down now so you don't forget; it's much more helpful to offer specifics rather than just "the staff was rude." 

 

Hospital stays are awful. I hope you feel better soon. 

 

[Alicia64]

I don't think that is true.  But either way we aren't talking that the nurse grabbed the janitor to help you.

 

Sparkly: I love you and you're a homeschool mom. Do the research. RNs make great money and go to school for quite awhile.

 

For a reason.

 

Did you read what Zoobie wrote? The guy likely had a GED or high school diploma.

 

Alley

[Murphy101]

I have no problem with deciding who I want care from based on their actual creditials.

 

And I now know to ask.

 

Yes, I know students in training have to practice on someone. And sometimes I'm fine with that and sometimes I'm not.

 

When I'm not, I state upfront, I do not want __ to do this. I want an actual ___ please. Thank you.

 

I try to say it nicely and light heartedly, but I'm very serious.

 

And iirc, legally if I say that, they are required by law to do so. I have the right to decide whether I want to be someone's Guinea pig or not. And if I don't, I sure as heck should have that right.

 

Only twice has it been an issue due to that. In theory, who the staff is and their level of training should be clearly apparent in their dress and in their badge, but most patients don't know what is what. In both cases where I demanded only the qualified of a certain level do the job it was bc I could tell the staff was very short and had reached a point of having people very under qualified do things that were clearly not in their skills toolbox.