I'm about ready to hit the go button on his online classes. Can you take a quick peek at my line-up and let me know if anything is glaring

[sierramv1]

My DS is going into 9th grade, he's on the honors track for everything, but is a STEM kid and loves Science(physics) and has always been a closet history buff - but doesn't consider that really 'school'.  He's coming home from being in PS for two years, and does better if he answers to someone else (other than me) for schooling, hence all the online classes. 

 

WTM Academy - Geometry (AOPS)

WTM Academy - History of the Ancient World

WTM Academy - Ancient Literature (I was going to do Center for Lit because we LOVE them, but these seem to go together)

WTM Academy - Biology w/Lab

Clover Creek -    Physics

 

Spanish (either La Clase Divertida or Spanish Academy)

Bravewriter of his choosing to round out his English credit

 

Extras (piano, fencing, mixed-martial arts, Boy Scouts)

[freesia]

Honestly, that many online classes may be a bit much in terms of time commitment even for an Honors student. If you need all online, I would do the Center for Lit as it may be less intense.

eta: I meant less intense

Edited March 4, 2016 by freesia

[almondbutterandjelly]

If you LOVE Center for Lit, you should go with that.  No telling if you will love WTM as much.

 

I wouldn't double up on the science.  If he likes Physics best, go with the Physics class and do Bio a different year.

[Kalypso]

I think your class line up looks good, but unless your son has awesome time management skills, he is going to be overloaded with so many online classes. I completely understand the need for outside accountablity, but in my experience, online classes can be much more demanding than some ps courses.

[FriedClams]

I agree with the others on that being a lot of online classes. I'd suggest two, at most, for the first semester.

[madteaparty]

I'm kind of surprised people are saying that's too many online classes, especially for a high schooler.

i agree to go with the provider you love.

[Luckymama]

So he'd be taking classes w three different providers? Have you looked to see how their breaks match up-----or even if they do? My dd had a rude shock last year when her two outsourced classes from two different providers only had the Christmas break in common. She found the period from Jan 2 to late May to be very long without a true break.

[Arcadia]

How is his time management skills?

 

AoPS geometry book can be a time suck. No idea about the WTM class.

 

Does he want to do biology concurrently with physics? My kids do but I also know kids who prefer one science at a time.

[RootAnn]

History - 1 credit

Math - 1 credit

Literature - 1 credit

Science - 2 credits (both w/labs)

Foreign Language - 1 credit

Composition - some # of 1/4 credit increments

 

So, you'll have 6+ solid (time-consuming) credits without much in terms of (non-core) electives.

 

My kids are definitely NOT all-honors or STEM kids, so I wouldn't necessarily say that's a heavy load. However, for those of us who had a freshman for the first time this year, we found out kids somewhat overwhelmed with work. You might consider dropping one of the science classes & substituting in two one-semester (lighter) electives that are interest-based - perhaps fine arts or computer something? Might want to email some teachers to check workload per week and add it all up. 

 

I do understand that doubling up on the science is probably an interest-based choice. We're just cautioning you.

 

My average-kid will end up with about 6 1/2 credits each semester (down from 7 1/2 - as we dropped a class) this year and it was PLENTY. If she stays home next year, she's going to go with seven credits. Some of the credits are lighter & some are more flexible (because we're not doing all online classes). I want to leave her time to pursue her side interests (which are reading, more math, additional languages, and teaching herself to program).

[Arcadia]

I'm kind of surprised people are saying that's too many online classes, especially for a high schooler.

It depends on what the child is used to. Besides it is 9th grade so GPA may be impacted.

 

For example the AoPS online class by AoPS only has a weekly online session and homework deadlines. The student has to plan out how to study and get the work done.

 

Clover Creek Physics is on the other hand more guided and similar to public school with a teacher you can email and daily schedules.

 

The CTY writing class my kid is taking has 2-3 deadlines per week and a teacher to email anytime, so semi-guided.

[G5052]

If you're committed to a full online schedule, that's fine. Be prepared for evening and weekend homework. It's like going to a bricks-and-mortar and having to do homework away from school.

 

We never did a full line-up of online classes. Mine have evening and weekend activities, and flexibility with some home-taught classes was best for us. When they were studying for heavy semester finals (like the monstrous Omnibus finals with VPSA), it was nice that I could drop some subjects for them for a short period. We usually had a few things we had to finish up with in June after the online classes were done, and that's fine. They are also both teens who need some quiet in order to feel balanced and in control.

 

That said, we have plenty of friends who do a full panel of online classes. It's an option!

[Lori D.]

My thoughts:

 

Looks like you have a solid line-up of credits for 9th grade, with a second science for an Academic Elective:

1 credit = English (Lit, and, Writing)

1 credit = Math: Geometry

1 credit = Science: Biology

1 credit = Science: Physics

1 credit = Social Science: Ancient World History

1 credit = Foreign Language: Spanish

6 credits total

 

If Science is DS's love, then no problem doing 2 science courses. Otherwise, I'd say do one Science credit, and have that 6th credit be an Elective of something lighter or more for personal interest for DS. It's hard work stepping up into high school, and if ALL the credits are rigorous/academic and there's nothing of interest or for personal exploration and development for the student, it can make 9th grade a real drudge and trudge. JMO! :)

 

potential online overload?

From everything I have heard, the WTM are rigorous and require a LOT of outside-of-class time. If DS has not done any previous online classes, jumping with ALL online classes, and 4 of them very demanding, could be extremely overwhelming. That just seems to me that it would be so hard for a 14yo to have to not only transition into high school level of work, and homeschooling, and all online classes -- all at the same time!

 

Just a thought, but, perhaps consider starting with just TWO online classes, and see if there are some local options to come alongside you to give you all time to transition from public school back to educating at home, AND making that transition from middle school to the more rigorous demands of high school.

 

Ideas for outsourcing help if you want to reduce the rigor a bit, while having outside support:

- 1-2 classes at the local high school

- homeschool co-op

- do Apologia Biology at home and have outside accountability with the free online Virtual Homeschool Group

- swap schooling -- have DS 1-2x/week do a Science/Math

- hire a tutor to meet with him once a week

- involvement in a robotics or engineering or physics extracurricular

 

 

potential writing overload?

I understand that the WTM History and Literature courses include plenty of writing assignments, so hours toward the Writing portion of the English credit would be MORE than covered through those two classes, and you would not need to add Brave Writer. However, if DS is weak at writing, or still needs some instruction and practice in Composition, then you might want to drop the WTM Lit. and do something lighter and less writing-heavy, and then, yes, do take the Brave Writer to get up to speed on Composition. So, only one or the other -- either WTM Lit, OR, Brave Writer, would be my suggestion.

 

 

new to AoPS?

Also, has DS been doing AoPS for Algebra 1 and Pre-Algebra? If not, jumping into it at Geometry could be very rough. Also, Geometry is very different from Algebra, and often STEM students who do well with Algebra don't click as well with Geometry, as it is much more 3-dimensional and thinking/logic and proof-heavy, compared to the more abstract algorithms of Algebra.

 

If DS has been doing a more traditional style math textbook, or something closer to Saxon for Pre-Algebra and Algebra 1, you might consider a textbook that is a bit closer to what DS is used to for higher maths, and that has quite a bit of teacher help -- I'd especially recommend Jann Perkins who teaches online classes at MyHomeschoolMathClass  -- she gets GREAT reviews, she goes above-and-beyond with individual tutoring as students need help, and she's Jann in TX here at WTM Boards! Jann's Geometry class uses Holt Geometry, OR,  Derek Owens online Geometry, which uses Harold Jacobs 3rd ed. Geometry text (which is more incremental and "hand-holding" than AoPS).

 

 

Just me -- and I don't know your student and how advanced he is or what workload he can handle -- what I would do:

- save Biology for 10th grade, and let DS run with his passion of Physics with lots of projects with Clover Creek

- save starting Foreign Language until 10th grade, after having a year to transition back home and to online classes

- ease up a bit on the heavy academics to allow DS the time to still enjoy the very valuable extracurriculars

- count some of the hours of the extracurriculars towards Fine Arts and Elective credits or partial credits

- look for local homeschoolers for DS to befriend and for family support and parent mentoring for homeschooling high school

 

So, again, just me, but I'd probably switch the schedule and the outsourcing to look like this:

1 credit = English (Brave Writer Writing + Lit books of interest to DS  and read/discuss together -- OR, WTM online only if you KNOW DS can handle it)

1 credit = Math: Geometry (online with Jann Perkins or Derek Owens -- WTM and AoPS only if DS has past AoPS experience)

1 credit = Science: Physics (Clover Creek)

1 credit = Social Science: Ancient World History (WTM online)

0.5-1.0 credit = Fine Arts: Piano

0.5-1.0 credit = Elective: PE (track hours of exercise/physical activities/sports that DS already does)

5-6 credits total

 

Extras:

piano (now also counting towards Fine Arts credit)

fencing (now also counting towards PE credit)

mixed-martial arts (now also counting towards PE credit)

Boy Scouts

 

That's still a pretty stout schedule for starting high school -- 5 to 6 credits, at least 3 of which would be full-online classes with 3 different providers, plus 1 other credit partially done online (Writing) -- plus scheduling time for at least 3 regular outside-the-home activities (fencing, mixed-martial arts, scouts).

 

BEST of luck in your homeschool high school adventures! Warmest regards, Lori D.

 

Edited March 4, 2016 by Lori D.

[Abeille]

My 9th-grader is in WTM Biology this year, and it requires a substantial time commitment outside of the two hours of class time. My ds is also enrolled in another time-intensive online class with a different provider (Latin), plus his other subjects. He has reasonable time management skills and is very self-disciplined but has found this year tough.If I tried the above schedule with him, he would implode; he's a very strong student, but works slowly. Your son may be very different, of course.

 

 

[yvonne]

We use a lot of online classes as well, both for the outside accountability and to take advantage of some fantastic instructors with more subject matter expertise and experience teaching the subject than I have or could pick up over the summer. As a result, we use a variety of providers, too. While I love being able to pick the best sources & instructors, there are two big drawbacks to multiple providers and several online courses.

 

As Luckymama mentioned, the breaks can be all over the map. This month, for example, I would have assumed that all providers would take the week before (or maybe the week after Easter) off.  But, between our online classes and a local class, one provider is off the week of March 7, another is off the week of March 14, two are off the week of March 21, and one (local) is off the week of March 28!!  Other than Christmas, my students never get a true break.

 

The second drawback in taking many online classes, esp. more rigorous courses, with different instructors is that there is no coordination of major exams/papers so that everything doesn't pile up into the same week. When I was in high school, teachers had some idea of whether there was some huge exam/paper due for another course at the same time they were thinking of scheduling an exam/paper. Usually, students would bring it up and the instructor might schedule her paper for a different week. Online instructors can't do that, so some weeks can be murder with several exams and a paper due. My students will request an extension, if necessary, but they try not to.  Anyhow, you can't do anything about it, but you can mitigate the effect a little if you go through the syllabus for each course before classes begin and map out on the calendar the major test dates or paper due dates, as well as any days the student may be gone for EC events (debate has been a big one for us.)  Takes out some of the stress and panic.

 

Another way to get more control of the workload with online classes is to use async and/or self-paced courses. For example, Derek Owens' courses are async & self-paced so, on weeks that are heavy with exams and/or papers, the student can just skip the math/physics that week and double down later or push it out into the summer.

 

And, obviously, the third way to manage the workload, besides reducing the number of courses, is to intentionally take a lighter course in some subject.  On your list, the Center for Lit class would most likely be lighter, with fewer set deadlines, than the WTMA lit course. Since your student has a heavy load, with different providers, and since you know he loves Center for Lit, and since your student is STEM minded, it might be a good idea to go w/ the CfL course.

 

Just my $0.02 worth based on our experience.

[fourisenough]

I would pick just one science and do a Bravewriter course or two over the summer, rather than during the school year. I think it will be intense, but do-able that way, but otherwise WAY. TOO. MUCH. If you went with Bio, you could have all your classes with one provider* which would eliminate the problem of different breaks/conflicting calendars.

 

*I'm not familiar with the Spanish provider you mentioned. It thought it was not live-online, but if it is, then you'd have two calendars to work around.

[OnMyOwn]

I'm kind of surprised people are saying that's too many online classes, especially for a high schooler.

i agree to go with the provider you love.

 

Yes, I'm surprised at this as well.  Are the WTM Academy classes particularly intensive?  We've never taken any of those.

 

I do agree about the scheduling thing being an issue with the online providers.  Christmas break seems to have worked out okay, but spring break isn't really happening because all of them take off different dates.

Edited March 4, 2016 by OnMyOwn

[Lori D.]

Yes, I'm surprised at this as well.  Are the WTM Academy classes particularly intensive?  We've never taken any of those.

 

No personal experience, but the reading lists are stout, and I am hearing things like students are putting in 8-10 hours per week of outside work for 1 WTM class… So that sounds intensive to me! ;)

 

Here are the syllabi for the WTM Ancient History and Ancient Literature courses. Alone these courses are not as intensive, but if taking both, I can see how this could quickly overwhelm a student who is not a strong reader and writer:

 

Ancient History

read approx. 400 pages per semester

write per semester:

* two quarter exams -- 2-page papers

* one mid-semester exam -- 6-page paper

* one comprehensive exam -- 6-page paper (writing on 3 topics)

* weekly quiz (short answers)

* weekly discussion questions (paragraph answers)

 

Ancient Literature

read approx. 1200 pages per semester (cover 10-11 works per semester)

write per semester:

* three 2-page reader response papers

* one 6-page research paper

* weekly study question answers

* weekly quizzes (short answer)

* semester exam

[madteaparty]

Yes, I'm surprised at this as well. Are the WTM Academy classes particularly intensive? We've never taken any of those.

 

I do agree about the scheduling thing being an issue with the online providers. Christmas break seems to have worked out okay, but spring break isn't really happening because all of them take off different dates.

My 6th grader is currently taking 5 online classes, plus regularly scheduled hr long Skype session with French tutor (with its own homework etc). I admit I'm not killing myself over grades and they do matter in high school. But break wise, we just missed one class per 3 courses (aops and Arabic are evening classes so he could still attend those)to go skiing on a spring break of our choosing. As I said, maybe I will be more wound up in high school, but I'm ramping up further for next year.

[yvonne]

I don't know if it's possible to generalize that "x online courses is too much" or "y is just right." There are too many variables.... live online/async, self-paced/fixed weekly deadlines or assignments, more or less rigorous, level of the classes, the mix of types of class, etc. Mostly, it depends on the particular student's strengths and interests and extra curricular activities.

 

My eighth grade daughter is taking six online classes with four different providers, but two are relatively easy for her and one of the hardest ones she actually likes, so there's some balance. It's working well for her.

 

One of my sons started out with six online courses with five providers, but dropped one because he wanted to put more time into debate. The particular five online classes that this particular student is taking this particular year are very manageable for him. Six was definitely over the top. He wanted to push through, but I finally put my foot down and he's been much happier since he let the sixth class go.

Edited March 4, 2016 by yvonne

[mjbucks1]

Lori D has given great advice and insight, as always.  My oldest (a senor) is very gifted, but the OP schedule would have put him over the edge.  He took 3 online classes his freshman year (Latin 3 with Lukeion, and AP Chem and AP comp sci with PA Homeschoolers).  This was more than enough for his first year.  I realize that the OP classes are not AP classes, but from everything I have read they are very time consuming (so they may require almost as much time as an AP class).  I personally think most students should stick with 2 online classes the first year they take classes online (3 for very bright and motivated students).  Online classes, in my experience, are much more rigorous than the classes at our local high school.  

[freesia]

Lori D has given great advice and insight, as always.  My oldest (a senor) is very gifted, but the OP schedule would have put him over the edge.  He took 3 online classes his freshman year (Latin 3 with Lukeion, and AP Chem and AP comp sci with PA Homeschoolers).  This was more than enough for his first year.  I realize that the OP classes are not AP classes, but from everything I have read they are very time consuming (so they may require almost as much time as an AP class).  I personally think most students should stick with 2 online classes the first year they take classes online (3 for very bright and motivated students).  Online classes, in my experience, are much more rigorous than the classes at our local high school.

I agree--but do want to add that there are some online choices with flexibility. We did start with 4 (if you don't count an online class for 6 weeks last year.) However, one is a Mooc with no hard deadlines, one is Homeschool Spanish Academy which never takes more than about 4 hours a week and 2 have hard deadlines. It has been just right. So you have to evaluate the workload of each class. To me it looks as the OP's son has 5 classes that will take at least 7 hours a week including class time. Add at least 4 hours for Spanish and martial arts, fencing, and other extra curriculars plus adolescent hormones and I see no flexibility in the schedule at all. I think it is a set up for a tough year.

[Arcadia]

I don't know if it's possible to generalize that "x online courses is too much" or "y is just right." There are too many variables.... live online/async, self-paced/fixed weekly deadlines or assignments, more or less rigorous, level of the classes, the mix of types of class, etc. Mostly, it depends on the particular student's strengths and interests and extra curricular activities.

 

Also teenage fog, growth spurt, sleep and "why did my grocery bills spike but my kitchen pantry looks like it has been raided" :lol:

[Lori D.]

I'm kind of surprised people are saying that's too many online classes, especially for a high schooler.

i agree to go with the provider you love.

 

My 6th grader is currently taking 5 online classes, plus regularly scheduled hr long Skype session with French tutor (with its own homework etc). I admit I'm not killing myself over grades and they do matter in high school. But break wise, we just missed one class per 3 courses (aops and Arabic are evening classes so he could still attend those)to go skiing on a spring break of our choosing. As I said, maybe I will be more wound up in high school, but I'm ramping up further for next year.

 

Gently, I think you are in a little different situation from the OP -- from many of your past posts, I have gathered that you have an accelerated student. :hurray:  And here you mention that your student is already doing all online coursework in early middle school and already well into foreign language studies -- so 6 online academic classes from 4 different providers would most likely not be a problem for your family. :) That is wonderful that you have so many options available to meet your student's advanced studies, both now and later on for high school! :)

 

However, OP's DS seemed to be in a very different situation to me: he would be moving from a brick and mortar public school (which likely uses standard/traditional textbooks and instruction), to using AoPS and rigorous classical materials, which most likely would require a much higher load of reading and writing than what he has done previously or "built up to". Plus one class would be trying to *start* a foreign language largely via self-study. All of that put together is why I suggested that it might be overwhelming to transition into high school level work with 6 online classes 4 of which would be very rigorous, from having no previous online class experience, and perhaps no skill set built up yet for handling rigorous classical-style education. I did not mean to suggest that was the case for every high school student. :)

 

BEST of luck to all in the middle school and high school educational journey, whatever path that might take! :) Warmest regards, Lori D.

[Penelope]

It struck me as too much online, too. Doing a lot online would restrict the freedom of homeschooling too much for my own family. You can miss some live classes for a vacation, sure, but if all your credits are online it is a whole lot to make up in one weekend--that may not even be possible.

 

AoPS often takes more time than the standard math class.

 

I would be more likely to switch the physics for a science with little math, like an earth science. Then take a more challenging physics in later high school.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I understand the different dynamic in play when there are outside deadlines.  However, I'll also say that we have found that 2-3 online classes were about all that we could manage.

 

Our experience has been that there is a mental drain associated with the time online.   It also matters how much reading, online homework submission, forum posting, peer review, and online quizzes the course includes.

[Julie of KY]

I agree with the others about cautioning on the number of online classes if you haven't done that before.

 

Many online providers do excellent classes. Many of those classes are 10-12 hours per week (and sometimes all the homework is expected on M-F, not weekends). Six classes of that load would be very difficult. Some online teachers are very flexible with the schedule and when it is done, others are not. We've had teachers give a test to be done that day by midnight and say it is a 3 hour test. If every teacher expected you to have 3 hours for THEIR class that day then my student would explode.

 

Within the same provider, you still might not have the same spring break. My son is taking two online classes through PA homescholers and one live class - all have different spring breaks.

[OnMyOwn]

No personal experience, but the reading lists are stout, and I am hearing things like students are putting in 8-10 hours per week of outside work for 1 WTM class… So that sounds intensive to me! ;)

 

Here are the syllabi for the WTM Ancient History and Ancient Literature courses. Alone these courses are not as intensive, but if taking both, I can see how this could quickly overwhelm a student who is not a strong reader and writer:

 

Ancient History

read approx. 400 pages per semester

write per semester:

* two quarter exams -- 2-page papers

* one mid-semester exam -- 6-page paper

* one comprehensive exam -- 6-page paper (writing on 3 topics)

* weekly quiz (short answers)

* weekly discussion questions (paragraph answers)

 

Ancient Literature

read approx. 1200 pages per semester (cover 10-11 works per semester)

write per semester:

* three 2-page reader response papers

* one 6-page research paper

* weekly study question answers

* weekly quizzes (short answer)

* semester exam

Yes, 8-10 hours per class is a lot.  One of mine will (reluctantly) be making a commitment like that with one or two classes, but I wouldn't want to do that for every class.  The online classes she's taking this year don't take anywhere near that time.  I'd say they each take 5 hours a week, including the class time.

Edited March 4, 2016 by OnMyOwn

[rdj2027]

My son is currently taking 5 online classes as a 10th grader (2 Lukeion,1 Blue Tent, and 2 Wilson Hill classes).  He is a hardworking and bright kiddo but it is a lot of work.  He is meeting all of his deadlines BUT there is very little time to let it all sink in and I am beginning to wonder how much in the end he will retain.  They are all great classes but they obviously do not coordinate and yes, there are times where he has several tests and papers pile up in addition to the normal coursework.

 

As far as the breaks go he actually likes not having them at the same time as he will have a lighter load over two weeks.  He also worked ahead during Christmas Break.  Time management is absolutely crucial and even at his age I need to have an eye on that because some classes have something due several times a week and it is easy to get confused.

 

He us signed up for WTMA Medieval Literature for next year but we decided against the history class because there seemed to be quit a bit of what he considers busy work.  Writing note cards on what he reads do nothing for him but create an extra writing assignment, quizzes every week especially if they are open book don't really help him either but they do add another "due date".

 

If I was you I would look at all the syllabi for the courses and make a chart of what is due when.  This will give you an overview of how much work there is actually going to be.  Don't forget reading, study and potential forum work time.  I also find myself discussing quite a bit of the material with my son which is fun but adds time to his day.

 

[madteaparty]

Gently, I think you are in a little different situation from the OP -- from many of your past posts, I have gathered that you have an accelerated student. :hurray: And here you mention that your student is already doing all online coursework in early middle school and already well into foreign language studies -- so 6 online academic classes from 4 different providers would most likely not be a problem for your family. :) That is wonderful that you have so many options available to meet your student's advanced studies, both now and later on for high school! :)

 

However, OP's DS seemed to be in a very different situation to me: he would be moving from a brick and mortar public school (which likely uses standard/traditional textbooks and instruction), to using AoPS and rigorous classical materials, which most likely would require a much higher load of reading and writing than what he has done previously or "built up to". Plus one class would be trying to *start* a foreign language largely via self-study. All of that put together is why I suggested that it might be overwhelming to transition into high school level work with 6 online classes 4 of which would be very rigorous, from having no previous online class experience, and perhaps no skill set built up yet for handling rigorous classical-style education. I did not mean to suggest that was the case for every high school student. :)

 

BEST of luck to all in the middle school and high school educational journey, whatever path that might take! :) Warmest regards, Lori D.

You are always right and I would never disagree with anything you say, but two things: my child's acceleration is more aspirational than actual ;). especially for a kid coming home from high school, the amount of time on online classes would be so little compared to the hours in school, no? We just came back from visiting my DS's friend in the city, this kid is in school 9-6 everyday. I know that's not typical for middle school but maybe it is in high school? I don't know.

[MarkT]

maybe replace these with an easier class:

WTM Academy - History of the Ancient World
WTM Academy - Ancient Literature 

 

Schedule looks tough - if you double up Science you should cut somewhere else.

 

Typical college only requires 3 years of social studies/history

[Arcadia]

We just came back from visiting my DS's friend in the city, this kid is in school 9-6 everyday. I know that's not typical for middle school but maybe it is in high school? I don't know.

 

One of the top local public high school is 0735-1500 everyday with 1hr break (lunch + recess) so 6hr 25mins daily x 5 = 32hr 5mins per week of seatwork.  That includes PE, health and a fine arts elective.

 

Another top local public high school is 0830-1535 daily with a short day (1440/2:40pm) on Wednesday, less than 30hrs per week.

 

These kids still have school sports, school orchestra, marching band, DECA and whatever have you after school. My local high school's school bus drops the kids off at 5:30pm but the academic day ends at 2:35pm on Wednesday and Thursday, 3pm on Monday, Tuesday and Friday. 

 

You can just google any high school's bell schedule and have fun comparing :)

[Lori D.]

You are always right and I would never disagree with anything you say, but two things: my child's acceleration is more aspirational than actual ;). especially for a kid coming home from high school, the amount of time on online classes would be so little compared to the hours in school, no? We just came back from visiting my DS's friend in the city, this kid is in school 9-6 everyday. I know that's not typical for middle school but maybe it is in high school? I don't know.

 

LOL! Knowing myself as I do, I must let you know that you are being extremely kind and generous in your assessment of my knowledge and abilities.   :laugh:  :tongue_smilie:

 

I can only answer out of our own experience. Yes, we did homeschool from 2nd grade up through 12th, but no, neither DS could have handled that amount of rigor in 9th grade. Very average, typical students here, with no huge drive or heavy interest in academics; they did school and put in a good effort, but 6 to 6.5 hours a day of solid, good work in high school was their max for focus -- and we usually had to accomplish 6 different subjects with that amount of that time. ;)

 

We did do Ancient History and Ancient Lit. ala WTM in 9th grade -- but it was *maybe* as much as half that amount of reading and writing as what's listed on the WTM Academy syllabi above. We spent about 5 hours/week on History, and about 6 hours a week on Lit/Writing. No way I could have forcibly squeezed another 4 hours a week for EACH of the History and Lit. But then, neither of my DSs could have done traditional high school, sitting in classes from 9am-3pm and then come home to 4 hours of homework every night, either...

 

So, while I DO think self-motivated students, gifted/accelerated students, or those with a high interest in academics or in a specific subject CAN jump in and do rigorous classes that take 8-10 hours a week in work at home on top of the weekly online class…  those were not our students, and that was not our reality. ;)

 

I know there are many accelerated students on these boards, but I also know there are a lot of average or struggling students, too (raising my own hand with 1 a bit above average and 1 who was average and with some mild LDs, and neither who was "into school", lol). I really do believe we can each "do classical" and "be rigorous", and do so successfully -- but that balance, and what is successful and rigorous for each student is going to look very different -- and that's okay! :)

 

I'm just so glad to see SO many options out there now, and more coming out every year, to allow people to make homeschool high school a better and more successful fit for their students. :) Cheers! Lori D.

Edited March 5, 2016 by Lori D.

[Haiku]

especially for a kid coming home from high school, the amount of time on online classes would be so little compared to the hours in school, no? 

 

My dd went to a tough high school. The day lasted from 8 to 3:30 (so she was gone from a little after 7 til after 4) and she routinely had 3-4 hours of homework a night (sometimes more). It was grueling, and a lot of kids dropped out. My dd quit track (which she enjoyed) because it interfered with her studies too much. She played varsity soccer (which she probably could have gotten a scholarship for; she was that good) for two years and then quit because she didn't have time for it. She was constantly stressed out.

 

I would never again intentionally do that to a kid. My dd's situation was unusual, and she needed that school to get where she is now, but ... really, she had no life. She had homework on the weekends.

 

Add to that type of schedule the fact that the OP's son will have to have an enormous amount of self-discipline and motivation to tackle 7+ hours a week per class, and it simply seems like a recipe for disaster.

[JadeOrchidSong]

OP, your Ds will be a young 9th grader. My son is the same age as yours. He will take two online classes, Clover Creek Physics and Fundamentals of Expositary Writing at Wilson Hill Academy. The rest he will take at home.

 

Gently, going from B&M to homeschool and to all online is too much a jump. It will be a very tough year indeed as pp says. Hope you can consider cutting some online classes so that he has some flexibility and breathing room as a young 9th grader.

Edited March 5, 2016 by JadeOrchidSong

[sierramv1]

Wow....so glad I posted. He is not gifted, but driven. He's prepared to spend 6 hours M-F doing school work, but would rather not do more than that.

 

He is a kid that pays attention in class, does his homework without prodding (or even asking) and gets straight As without having to really 'study' anything.

 

He's a deep thinker, but not fast to process things. He is adamant about taking two sciences. He is a voracious reader, and his verbal and written skills are solid, far above his public school counter-parts.

 

He has never liked geometry, but loves algebra, so I think I will revisit the AoPs math (that sounds like it could be a nightmare for him) and maybe drop the Lit class altogether and opt for independent lit study and 2-3 Bravewriter classes.

 

How does that sound?

[MarkT]

He has never liked geometry, but loves algebra, so I think I will revisit the AoPs math (that sounds like it could be a nightmare for him) 

for Geo

see this for options

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/542418-homeschooling-high-school-math/?do=findComment&comment=6191107

 

 

The Holt book that this course uses is very straightforward but complete:

Jann in TX

http://myhomeschoolmathclass.com/course-descriptions.html

It gets good reviews.

 

AoPS Geometry would be tough.

[freesia]

Wow....so glad I posted. He is not gifted, but driven. He's prepared to spend 6 hours M-F doing school work, but would rather not do more than that.

 

He is a kid that pays attention in class, does his homework without prodding (or even asking) and gets straight As without having to really 'study' anything.

 

He's a deep thinker, but not fast to process things. He is adamant about taking two sciences. He is a voracious reader, and his verbal and written skills are solid, far above his public school counter-parts.

 

He has never liked geometry, but loves algebra, so I think I will revisit the AoPs math (that sounds like it could be a nightmare for him) and maybe drop the Lit class altogether and opt for independent lit study and 2-3 Bravewriter classes.

 

How does that sound?

I think that sounds great. If you can swing the center for lit classes, though, they sound manageable with the Bravewriter. My kids prefer discussing lit with a group .

[G5052]

Wow....so glad I posted. He is not gifted, but driven. He's prepared to spend 6 hours M-F doing school work, but would rather not do more than that.

 

With 6 hours a day to do school, I wouldn't do a heavy line-up of online classes.

 

I'm not as familiar with some of the courses you've listed, but you're probably looking at least 3 hours/day in class minimum and then only 3 hours for homework each weekday for some six classes or so. I don't think that's enough time.

 

To give you an idea, my younger one is doing geometry through another online provider. She spends 3 hours a week in class, and about 5 hours a week studying and doing homework. So that's about 1.5 hours a day average for one one class. She also does Latin with an online provider, and it's slightly less, but still a full hour or more per day average between class and homework.

 

Her asynchronous AP English is more like 2 hours a day even though there's no live class.

 

She usually does some work AP English and looks ahead in other subjects on Sunday night so that she can balance everything else during the week. 

 

So if you do 6 online classes, you might end up with 9.5 hours of work per day. Probably less, but I'd be uneasy jumping into that without doing a transition year with 2-3 online classes.

[yvonne]

With 6 hours a day to do school, I wouldn't do a heavy line-up of online classes.

 

So if you do 6 online classes, you might end up with 9.5 hours of work per day.

 

:iagree:

 

Your revised idea of doing Lit at home and revisiting the AoPS Geometry class will be much more likely to bring you closer to 6 hours/day, 30 hours/week.

 

Five online classes, especially the ones you were originally looking at, plus the EC's would definitely put him over the 6 hour/day threshold.

 

On a side note....It's interesting that there seems to be more concern about a student transitioning from a brick and mortar to online classes than for an always home schooled student transitioning to online classes.  I would have thought b&m to online would be relatively straightforward. A student in a b&m is going to be used to managing their own schedule, being held to deadlines, and having to function fairly independently.  We've always home schooled, so I have no personal experience to base that on, though.

 

I've recommended some online courses to a friend who will be pulling her child out of a b&m junior high at the end of this year, so I'd be interested in hearing if others who have btdt have had issues with the transition from b&m to online courses.

 

Thanks!

[Arcadia]

Yvonne,

 

Some B&M middle schools do a lot of handholding and there are rigid class and homework schedules to follow. Going from that kind of B&M scenario to plan your own schedule online courses can be a jump in time management skills required.

[Haiku]

My dd did not manage her schedule independently when she was in school. The school organized and scheduled everything. DD only had to do what she was told to do when she was told to do it.

[Lori D.]

Wow....so glad I posted. He is not gifted, but driven. He's prepared to spend 6 hours M-F doing school work, but would rather not do more than that.

 

He is a kid that pays attention in class, does his homework without prodding (or even asking) and gets straight As without having to really 'study' anything.

 

He's a deep thinker, but not fast to process things. He is adamant about taking two sciences. He is a voracious reader, and his verbal and written skills are solid, far above his public school counter-parts.

 

He has never liked geometry, but loves algebra, so I think I will revisit the AoPs math (that sounds like it could be a nightmare for him) and maybe drop the Lit class altogether and opt for independent lit study and 2-3 Bravewriter classes.

 

How does that sound?

 

Sounds like you know your DS well, so that is a SUPER thing, as that will help you immensely in selecting the options that will best fit him! :) The tweaks you mention will give you some breathing room for transitioning, and get you closer to keeping the school days to 6 hours/day. And the Clover Creek Physics sounds like it will be a fantastic fit for DS. :)

 

This is still 5 online classes with potentially 4 different providers, which may be a trick to juggle… You might speak in advance of signing up for the WTM Academy classes to the instructors and ask for realistic projections of how many hours of at-home work per week for each class to plan on, and in case it is still too much, I starred (*) the two classes that you might do in ways other than online classes to streamline or reduce the "juggle" aspect of so many providers, if needed.

 

Again, just me, but I would probably start with the 5 strong academic classes, count some of the hours of piano and physical activities towards a 0.5 credit each of Fine Arts and Elective: PE, and hold off on the Spanish until 10th grade -- or at least wait until you are a month or two into your schedule to see how it's working and if that would add too much time -- Foreign Language will definitely require about 1 hour/day. 

 

1 credit = English (independent Lit) (Bravewriter classes)

1 credit = Math: Geometry (possibly online with Jann Perkins or Derek Owens or ? -- ***)

1 credit = Science: Biology* (WTM Academy -- or, see option below)

1 credit = Science: Physics (Clover Creek)

1 credit = History ** (WTM Academy -- or, see option below)

total = 5 strong academic credits

 

optional:

0.5-1.0 credit = Foreign Language: Spanish -- personally, I would save this for 10th grade

0.5-1.0 credit = Fine Arts: Piano (some of the piano hours)

0.5-1.0 credit = Elective: PE (some of the fencing and martial arts hours)

 

extras:  piano; fencing; mixed martial arts; Boy Scouts

 

* Biology -- the Virtual Homeschool Group is free and would provide weekly accountability, but would be self-paced and less rigorous so that would give DS more flexibility in scheduling his time or pursuing science "bunny trails" of interest that might be sparked by Biology -- or, it would allow him more time to focus on his passion of Physics with Clover Creek, and just knock out the Biology as a basic "get 'er done" course if he's not that "into" Biology

 

** History -- you mentioned DS is a closet History buff -- since he has high interest, he would likely be quite good at self-monitoring and  being disciplined, so DS could watch or listen to some of the Teaching Company Great Course lecture series and he could read on his own through the History of the Ancient World text that the WTM Academy course; if you watch some of the TC lectures with DS, then you can discuss together, and you could just require 1 multi-page paper per semester, or have give a 10-minute power point presentation to teach the family on a topic of special interest to him for "output" for the course -- all of those are much more about sharing thoughts, or even letting DS be the expert or the teacher, and much less about a parent dictating or student bucking a parent's oversight… ;)

 

*** Geometry -- thought of a few more "just get 'er done" options for Geometry that might work for DS, since he loves Algebra and is not as into Geometry -- however, these would NOT have the tutoring helps that a live online instructor would be able to provide...

- Time4Learning -- secular, self-paced/self-scoring, online, video tutorials

- SOS (Switched on Schoolhouse) -- Christian, self-paced, DVD, video tutorials

Edited March 5, 2016 by Lori D.

[sierramv1]

So he'd be taking classes w three different providers? Have you looked to see how their breaks match up-----or even if they do? My dd had a rude shock last year when her two outsourced classes from two different providers only had the Christmas break in common. She found the period from Jan 2 to late May to be very long without a true break.

 

This is a fantastic point that I had not even considered!! Thank you for pointing it out. All the WTM classes do follow the same breaks, but the other providers haven't set Spring dates yet that I saw. 

[sierramv1]

My son is currently taking 5 online classes as a 10th grader (2 Lukeion,1 Blue Tent, and 2 Wilson Hill classes).  He is a hardworking and bright kiddo but it is a lot of work.  He is meeting all of his deadlines BUT there is very little time to let it all sink in and I am beginning to wonder how much in the end he will retain.  They are all great classes but they obviously do not coordinate and yes, there are times where he has several tests and papers pile up in addition to the normal coursework.

 

I have found this to be true with my son when he started PS in 7th grade. He lost some of that passion for history that he once had...you make a very good point! My husband is a history nerd as well, and this would be any easy class for us to do at home, and he would probably get more out of it.

[sierramv1]

Sounds like you know your DS well, so that is a SUPER thing, as that will help you immensely in selecting the options that will best fit him! :) The tweaks you mention will give you some breathing room for transitioning, and get you closer to keeping the school days to 6 hours/day. And the Clover Creek Physics sounds like it will be a fantastic fit for DS. :)

 

This is still 5 online classes with potentially 4 different providers, which may be a trick to juggle… You might speak in advance of signing up for the WTM Academy classes to the instructors and ask for realistic projections of how many hours of at-home work per week for each class to plan on, and in case it is still too much, I starred (*) the two classes that you might do in ways other than online classes to streamline or reduce the "juggle" aspect of so many providers, if needed.

 

Again, just me, but I would probably start with the 5 strong academic classes, count some of the hours of piano and physical activities towards a 0.5 credit each of Fine Arts and Elective: PE, and hold off on the Spanish until 10th grade -- or at least wait until you are a month or two into your schedule to see how it's working and if that would add too much time -- Foreign Language will definitely require about 1 hour/day. 

 

1 credit = English (independent Lit) (Bravewriter classes)

1 credit = Math: Geometry (possibly online with Jann Perkins or Derek Owens or ? -- ***)

1 credit = Science: Biology* (WTM Academy -- or, see option below)

1 credit = Science: Physics (Clover Creek)

1 credit = History ** (WTM Academy -- or, see option below)

total = 5 strong academic credits

 

optional:

0.5-1.0 credit = Foreign Language: Spanish -- personally, I would save this for 10th grade

0.5-1.0 credit = Fine Arts: Piano (some of the piano hours)

0.5-1.0 credit = Elective: PE (some of the fencing and martial arts hours)

 

extras:  piano; fencing; mixed martial arts; Boy Scouts

 

* Biology -- the Virtual Homeschool Group is free and would provide weekly accountability, but would be self-paced and less rigorous so that would give DS more flexibility in scheduling his time or pursuing science "bunny trails" of interest that might be sparked by Biology -- or, it would allow him more time to focus on his passion of Physics with Clover Creek, and just knock out the Biology as a basic "get 'er done" course if he's not that "into" Biology

 

** History -- you mentioned DS is a closet History buff -- since he has high interest, he would likely be quite good at self-monitoring and  being disciplined, so DS could watch or listen to some of the Teaching Company Great Course lecture series and he could read on his own through the History of the Ancient World text that the WTM Academy course; if you watch some of the TC lectures with DS, then you can discuss together, and you could just require 1 multi-page paper per semester, or have give a 10-minute power point presentation to teach the family on a topic of special interest to him for "output" for the course -- all of those are much more about sharing thoughts, or even letting DS be the expert or the teacher, and much less about a parent dictating or student bucking a parent's oversight… ;)

 

*** Geometry -- thought of a few more "just get 'er done" options for Geometry that might work for DS, since he loves Algebra and is not as into Geometry -- however, these would NOT have the tutoring helps that a live online instructor would be able to provide...

- Time4Learning -- secular, self-paced/self-scoring, online, video tutorials

- SOS (Switched on Schoolhouse) -- Christian, self-paced, DVD, video tutorials

 

 

Lori you are AMAZING!!  Your insight has been extremely helpful to me. I looked over the WTM History and we can definitely do that at home (I don't know why homeschooling him through HS seemed so overwhelming to me). My husband is a huge history nerd, that is partly what sparked our sons passion for it starting in 1rst grade!  Attending public school classes has dimmed that for him.

 

I have a degree in Biology, so I can 'oversee' that class. I want him to be challenged, but not overwhelmed.

 

Jann Perkins Geometry sounds like a perfect fit for him, with the option for Honors course work.

 

He is very busy outside of school, with activities almost every day of the week. He is just now beginning to appreciate having some down time. 

 

Off to do a little more research....Thank you so much for taking the time to help me see the bigger picture. He truly has a love of learning and I don't need to bog him down with course work for him to excel and be challenged. 

Edited March 6, 2016 by sierramv1

[Lori D.]

Lori you are AMAZING!!  Your insight has been extremely helpful to me. I looked over the WTM History and we can definitely do that at home (I don't know why homeschooling him through HS seemed so overwhelming to me). My husband is a huge history nerd, that is partly what sparked our sons passion for it starting in 1rst grade!  Attending public school classes has dimmed that for him.

 

I have a degree in Biology, so I can 'oversee' that class. I want him to be challenged, but not overwhelmed.

 

Jann Perkins Geometry sounds like a perfect fit for him, with the option for Honors course work.

 

He is very busy outside of school, with activities almost every day of the week. He is just now beginning to appreciate having some down time. 

 

Off to do a little more research....Thank you so much for taking the time to help me see the bigger picture. He truly has a love of learning and I don't need to bog him down with course work for him to excel and be challenged. 

 

Giving your DS some input on doing 2 sciences (his love), and on what he studies for history (his "closet" passion) will really let him shine. And he'll really enjoy having things he can "bring to the table" with both you (Biology) and his dad (History) for discussing!

 

Just thought of another possible extracurricular: don't know if it's an option where you are, or if it would even be of interest, but there are a number of homeschool families in our area who have really enjoyed participating in local History recreation events. It's a great way to meet other like-minded people in the community. :)

 

SO excited for you all for homeschooling high school! :) It really was a GREAT opportunity for our DSs, as it allowed them to explore some activities they never would have time for if they had gone to a public or private high school. And, along about high school, DSs were really thinking about everything, so we had some great informal discussions all those years -- about Literature, History, and Science… about movies, popular books… about culture and life! Hope that will be the case for your family as well! :)

 

BEST of luck in your homeschooling high school adventures! :) Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited March 6, 2016 by Lori D.

[melmichigan]

I have found this to be true with my son when he started PS in 7th grade. He lost some of that passion for history that he once had...you make a very good point! My husband is a history nerd as well, and this would be any easy class for us to do at home, and he would probably get more out of it.

Have you looked over the History of the Ancient World book?  My DD is a voracious reader and loves history.  That said, she would have killed me if I had signed her up for that class.  She did eventually read most of HoAW, but at her own pace, and as her interests allowed.  I say this having read the book myself, and her having taken Ancient Literature with WTMA.

[sierramv1]

Have you looked over the History of the Ancient World book? My DD is a voracious reader and loves history. That said, she would have killed me if I had signed her up for that class. She did eventually read most of HoAW, but at her own pace, and as her interests allowed. I say this having read the book myself, and her having taken Ancient Literature with WTMA.

 

I just ordered it...we were going to do History at home, and either the WTM Ancient Literature class or Center for Lit World Lit. Can you elaborate a little bit? What did she think of the Lit class? Thank you!

[sierramv1]

I just ordered it, can you elaborate a little bit. We were going to do history at home...and possibly have him take the WTM ancient literature or Center For Lit, World literature. I like the idea of World History taking a couple of years to cover, rather than running through it all in one year... I was also looking at Oak Meadow for History or supplementing...

Edited March 7, 2016 by sierramv1

[snowbeltmom]

Fwiw, I think you are making an excellent choice to cut back on the number of online classes, especially since the classes are with WTM.  In my kids' experiences, the WTM classes are excellent, but time consuming.  My junior is taking Rhetoric II with WTM and AP Lit with PAH.  They are his two favorite classes this year, but the time commitment in the rhetoric class is much more than the time commitment for his AP class. 

 

Good luck in your planning!