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[Katy]

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Edited July 22, 2016 by Katy

[AK_Mom4]

Not exactly the same, but I received a wedding announcement from someone who I had been out of touch with for several years.  She had been living with her long time girl friend when I knew her, but the wedding was between her and a gentleman we had both known in college.

 

I sent a nice card wishing them well.  Relationships are complicated sometimes.

[Katy]

nm

Edited July 22, 2016 by Katy

[Carol in Cal.]

When I was in college there were a lot of women who sort of felt like they should be lesbian and tried it out for political reasons or because they had a really close friend who was gay that they were not sure whether their closeness was attraction or not.  Some of them ended up in heterosexual relationships later on.  Also, there was a movement in the 1970s to argue that true feminists had to choose to be lesbian even if that was not their inclination, and at the time I heard people say that they did that.  It's interesting how much more confusing things are now than they were then.  Sometimes now it seems like some people try on a lot of different preferences in much the same way as we used to consider career choices. 

[Katy]

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Edited July 22, 2016 by Katy

[momacacia]

We have been family friends with another couple who have two children where the husband has same-sex attraction. Whether he's bisexual, just wanted children, and what the wife knew before they married, I have no idea.

[Anne in CA]

I have a good friend from high school who had a great college friend who was male, had a boyfriend in college, and now that he is in his forties and wants to have a family says that the whole boyfriend was an "experiment" and that he is straight. He is hoping to get married and have a family. It isn't my place to worry about it, so what do I know.

 

I read the book by Ted Haggard's wife where she says that Ted was not "gay" he had been molested as a child and had issues from that. So... maybe that is the case. I knew a woman who had numerous people try to convince her that she is really butch because she is not feminine looking at all, and she had a very hard time convincing people she was straight. She was very tormented for a long time wondering if she was repressing her lesbian side, but she went to a counselor who showed her that she was not gay. She also never felt gay, but other people tried very hard to convince her that she was, so maybe that does happen to some people too?

[abba12]

To be very politically incorrect for a moment....

 

When I was a teenager (not that long ago, I'm a young-un 'round here) it was 'cool' to be gay. Very little of the bullying I hear about (this seems to be very area-based, I know lots of kids even in the US who had no big deal coming out at school, and where I lived it was definitely no big deal). Everyone I know tried it at least once, and I knew a few kids who openly identified as gay.

 

As adults, they're now very happily straight. They were never actually gay in the first place (or, if you believe in fluid sexuality, they were gay and now they're straight. More and more people trying to defend that theory...).  I asked two about it, one, he said he felt like it was a way to stand out and rebel and be different. It was also very much part of the Emo scene at the time, and it was kind of exciting. For the other, she had been abused by men, and was terrified of them, but still had sexual feelings, so channelled them into women. 

 

For older generations, I think, straight people would have a strong aversion, or strong negative reaction to they themselves doing a sexual act with someone of the same gender, even if they are totally ok with the idea of homosexuality. But for the younger generation, most of them aren't, at least in my area. Almost every under-30 woman I know has kissed another woman, and a good portion of the men have kissed men too. So, telling yourself you are gay because of abuse, or because it is 'cool and rebellious' isn't unrealistic.

 

This is why I think over-representing homosexuality is as bad as under-representing it. I'd be willing to bet a large portion of the gay kids I knew growing up have decided they weren't gay, or have gone with the fluid sexuality thing, or have now decided they are bi. This isn't an anti-gay thing, I imagine it must have been really hard for the truly gay kids to be lumped in with all the rest of them, and even worse when, in their 20s, all their supposedly 'gay' friends started becoming straight after all, especially among the Emo crowd where this was a big deal and more people were gay/bi than they were straight.  It's bad for both sides, and I feel sorry for the gay teens who thought they had a community that slowly began to disappear as everyone grew up and went straight. 

 

And for anyone who thinks this post is ridiculous, well, there must have been an AWFUL lot of kool-aid going around, because just in my social group of a dozen kids alone there were 3 gay kids and 2 bi kids, one of whom decided they were trans for a good two years, and if they were born 10 years later may have even been able to get hormone therapy (she, trans he, was very certain at the time). ALL of them are now in straight relationships, and this is not a bible-belt area, we have much less of the religious influence the US does, like I said, being gay was almost 'cool' in some circles. Being gay was definitely a 'phase' for the kids in my circle, a form of rebellion and being different and special. We all had low self esteem, many of us had been abused, so it was a way to stand out and be special and have a 'place' and a 'community' (since it didn't come with the bullying I hear about in the US)

 

 

[Guest]

.

Edited February 26, 2016 by OKBud

[Lawyer&Mom]

I have a dear friend who was gay in college and is now very happily married to a woman. He and his wife both have very close gay friends, so it certainly wasn't a rejection of homosexuality. I don't really know what happened. People are complicated. People change. I'm just glad to see him so happy in his current relationship. They are a great couple.

[Katy]

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Edited July 22, 2016 by Katy

[Χά�ων]

Love does not always fall along gender lines and does not always neatly fit into a box.

 

And people who identify as bi are not always taken seriously and instead find it easier to come out as gay or straight, depending on who they are in a relationship with.

[pinkmint]

I can't really speculate on the reason but it does happen. It's not unheard of. As much publicity as anti-gayness gets, in some circles there is quite a lot of acceptance and even enhanced social status that being gay comes with in real life. 

 

David Bowie once remarked in an interview that he was a "closeted heterosexual" for a long time, and that people thinking he was gay helped his image. 

[Guest]

Love does not always fall along gender lines and does not always neatly fit into a box.

 

And people who identify as bi are not always taken seriously and instead find it easier to come out as gay or straight, depending on who they are in a relationship with.

Ai.

[chiguirre]

Svante Paabo discusses his bisexuality in Neanderthal Man. The book is mainly about his scientific work but he does include autobiographical details too. He spends quite a bit of time explaining his relationships with men and with his wife. Basically he was more interested in the person than their gender. He even says his wife looks like an old boyfriend.

 

http://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/0465054951?keywords=svante%20p%C3%A4%C3%A4bo&qid=1456449044&ref_=sr_1_1&sr=8-1

Edited February 26, 2016 by chiguirre

[tm919]

Svante Paabo discusses his bisexuality in Neanderthal Man. The book is mainly about his scientific work but he does include autobiographical details too. He spends quite a bit of time explaining his relationships with men and with his wife. Basically he was more interested in the person than their gender. He even says his wife looks like an old boyfriend.

 

http://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/0465054951?keywords=svante%20p%C3%A4%C3%A4bo&qid=1456449044&ref_=sr_1_1&sr=8-1

Neat. I knew a woman whose partner was a woman, but would never have described herself as a lesbian. To her it was just that the person she was in love with happened to be a woman. 

 

I guess everyone has their relationship deal-breakers.  I mean, I prefer tall men, my  husband isn't tall... that doesn't mean I wouldn't be interested in dating tall men if my husband didn't exist.

 

Gender doesn't always make the list of deal-breakers. I do admit that gender is extremely high on my list, though. :)

[Arcadia]

I have a lesbian classmate (all girls school) who is still undecided and single in her early 40s. The ones I know who are gays (including my favorite hairdresser) had sex change operations in their 20s.

 

I'll just take what people declare at face value.

[Joker]

I honestly have no idea how to respond to the idea that it's cool to be gay. Oh, how I wish! Life would be much easier here if it were so.

[Mimm]

My daughter has several friends who are gay and has commented that sometimes being gay is just a phase. She's known a couple who thought they were "then it was like, false alarm." (Her words.) I think kids these days are just much more open minded and willing to experiment with labels and orientations. Sexuality isn't binary but on a continuum and I think some people take a while to figure out where on that continuum they are. This is in a very conservative area where there are still kids who are pretty openly anti-gay. But my daughter hasn't seen any bullying. Just a few arguments, a couple broken friendships, etc. Of course, she also saw a broken friendship over veganism. (Not that I'm equaling sexual orientation with dietary choices, just saying that teen friendships might break up over any number of issues.) I think things are very different now than even when I was in high school which wasn't that long ago. When I was in high school, you didn't come out in high school, you waited till after you graduated. At least in the areas I lived in.

[Carol in Cal.]

 

I see we're back to the old 'kids are just pretending to be gay for attention' trope.

 

 

Sadie, respectfully, I don't see the posts in this thread that way; I think people have been really careful to limit their responses to what they have observed and not to state their observations to be normative. 

[Ravin]

Well, I can hold out the example of my own self to stand for the proposition that things change as people mature, enter relationships, etc.

 

I identified as "lesbian" from age 15 to age 18.

 

At 18, I discovered that I in fact do like sex with men just fine, so I changed the label to "bisexual".

 

I got married to a man at not quite 22. We are not monogamous and I have had a couple of intimate female relationships of short duration since then.

 

Somewhere along the way I learned the term "pansexual" and decided that fits me better than "bisexual" because I have been attracted to people who do not fit neatly into the male/female binary.

 

I transitioned from female to male in my mid 30's, so I am now in a same-gender marriage (to the same man I've been married to for almost 17 years, and if asked will still give my sexual orientation as "pansexual."

 

It's a fair assessment that my transition did not actually change my husband's sexual orientation, which is primarily heterosexual, but he has never been so hung up on what that means that he can't make an exception for the one person he committed to stick with for life.

 

Somewhere along the way, I mostly just decided labels can be overrated and when artificial cultural barriers are broken down, the need for them just isn't there so much.

[Tap]

I think that part of the problem is that people want to put a label on sexuality, like it is an off/on switch.  It is way more varied that than, and it seems like the general public is just in the beginning stages of understanding and accepting that.   When people are teenagers, it is common for them to be very polarized on many issues, some of those having to do with gender/sexuality/identity.  But, since sexuality is very important to teenagers/early twenties (highest reproduction driven years), many people find it easier to say "I am gay" or "I am a lesbian" than for them to say "I am willing to follow my own path/time and see where my gender/sexuality/identity all merge".  Adding to the polarity that is common in teens, is the pressure to form social groups in education settings.  People often want to belong to a group, and by identifying as part of that group, they can more firmly belong. And almost more importantly, they are labeled by other people...and forced into a group, whether they would self identify as that group or not. After all, labels are used for sorting things, and if you are fluid in your sexuality, people can't label you as easily.   Until recently, there wasn't much acceptance of a pan sexual  group, who could just be open about not wanting to be labeled either gay or lesbian. I love that they have added a Q to the LGBT-Q  (Q stands for questioning or queer for anyone who may not be familiar.)

 

I think that people's sexuality being fluid, has been fairly understood and accepted in Lesbian and Gay groups....it is the heterosexual who are just now playing catch up, and realizing that just because someone labeled themselves (or allowed others to label them) one way at one point in time, doesn't mean that they are always going to label themselves the same way.  It can be a difference of a few months or decades....it doesn't really matter.  

 

 

[Katy]

Very nice Tap.

[PeacefulChaos]

My assumption would just be that each one fell in love with a woman.

 

I wouldn't think they were 'faking' being gay in the past, nor would I think they are currently 'faking' being straight.  

 

 

I think it can be sort of fluid.  I don't think people can be defined so precisely by labels - by any labels - for their entire lives and never grow or change.  

 

 

 

 

But tbh?  I probably wouldn't put much thought into it at all.  :)

[Joker]

Looking around at our local high school and college over the last few years, it's definitely seen as cool to identify as gay. A number of the kids my oldest dd's age who did identify as gay in high school are now in heterosexual marriages. So, yes, I've certainly seen it. It's as some PP put it-- a way to be edgy and cool. 

 

Yeah, that's not the case at all here nor the last state we lived in. It's not cool. Being yourself and identifying as gay means nothing but nastiness. We moved across the country to hopefully find someplace better and it's just the same. Outsiders looking in may think it's cool by some things being said but actually living it is much different. 

[Joker]

I guess I think it might be considered cool in some places to say it's no big deal if one is not straight. The problem is when those who aren't straight actually vocalize it. Then, it's suddenly not actually cool. I feel lots of people are talking the talk but they aren't actually walking the walk. 

[8circles]

Maybe they just moved and their new home doesn't have closets?

[SKL]

There was a time (when my sister was in high school) when it was "in" to be gay, and people did claim to be gay for attention or out of confusion or whatever.  And I know at least one person personally who "came out" to his parents only to go back in the closet shortly thereafter.

 

The person I knew at high school age (and still do) who is definitely gay?  He has never been "open" about it, and was definitely in the closet in high school, even though there were kids who were going around claiming to be gay who probably weren't.  He had "girlfriends" and many girls who wanted to be his girlfriend.  He eventually came out to some of his family and close friends, but AFAIK he doesn't share that at work etc.  Oh and one of his "girlfriends" before he gave up that charade was a closet lesbian.  He said they were hoping to live together so they could both have kids, but it didn't work out.

[Χά�ων]

There was a time (when my sister was in high school) when it was "in" to be gay, and people did claim to be gay for attention or out of confusion or whatever. .

What years did your sister attend high school? I may be over processing, but aren't you on your late 40's? That puts you in high school in the 80's. Gay was not "in" at that time. Not with the AIDS crisis and the fear and blame.

[SKL]

What years did your sister attend high school? I may be over processing, but aren't you on your late 40's? That puts you in high school in the 80's. Gay was not "in" at that time. Not with the AIDS crisis and the fear and blame.

 

My sister is a lot younger than I am.

 

[Tap]

What years did your sister attend high school? I may be over processing, but aren't you on your late 40's? That puts you in high school in the 80's. Gay was not "in" at that time. Not with the AIDS crisis and the fear and blame.

There are so many variables that you can't even generalize that certain decades are/were worse than others.

 

One of my best friends was a lesbian in high school, in a small town, in the 80s.   She had had a boyfriend in 9th grade, but after they broke up, she made different choices.  Due to her and my friendship, I was allowed to attend 'all girl' parties, even though I was hetero.  The variety of people there was vast.  They were college and high school age.  Very preppy, to very girly, to androgynous, to butch and everything in between.  There were girls there who I knew at school who were not 'out', those who were suspected as lesbian, those who were bi, and those who were completely out as a lesbian.  

 

I can honestly say, that every girls story was different. 

 

My friend, was a beautiful, petite, feminine girl, with long curly hair and pick shirts on some days, and on others she wore ripped up jeans and Motley Crue Ts. She rode motor cycles and drove a huge International pick up truck. Despite her size, she was known for being a mean little scrapper (fighter) so no one dared to give her grief.  People suspected, some of us knew for certain, but no one dared to cause her problems for it. 

 

One of her girlfriends on the other hand, had a much rougher time.  In the same school.  In the same social groups.  She just fared different. I saw it play out, I was in the same school.  She had a different personality.  Maybe because no one feared her? Maybe because she was more demure? Maybe more insecure?  I don't know what it was, but she was treated different by the students. It always surprised me, because I know my friend would have kicked the butt of anyone she found out had hurt this girlfriend.  So, it wasn't that she was a safe target.  But, there was something different. 

 

 

I have family who are gay.  I have family who are trans gendered.  I have friends who are a mix of everything.  

 

 

I have one person close to me who was a founding member/president of a gay/straight in alliance in 9th grade of high school in the 2000's.  He had all As, was well liked and a natural born leader. He was in a liberal town. His mom is a Lesbian so coming out at home wasn't a problem.  He was surrounded by family who accepted him from the second he came out.  He seemed to have it all worked out......until the day of his 10th grade year, that he tried to commit suicide. Luckily he didn't succeed (a chance discovery of him unconscious by someone who shouldn't have been home, when they were supposed to be somewhere else).  It took a year of counseling and family support to get him stable again. And many more years, to help him heal. So, while the school life looked great from the outside (my son and he attended the same high school at the same time), the snickers in the hall, the 'always having to be strong' and 'be the change you want to see it the world'.....it took its toll. Some of the students/staff loved him/ some not so much, just because of what he represented. The pressure of not being able to be insecure and hide in the shadows a bit and just be a normal teen, were too much.  

 

Being in a supported loving school environment is amazing,  but it isn't everything.

Edited February 26, 2016 by Tap

[Χά�ων]

There are so many variables that you can't even generalize that certain decades are/were worse than others.

 

 

I am not generalizing that certain decades were worse than others. 

 

In the experience of friends I know who identify as gay, coming of age during the AID's crisis was terrifying, even with family support.  

[zoobie]

'Enhanced social status' by being LBGTIQ. Huh. Not so as I've noticed, nor so as the kids (who are 4-6 times more likely to kill themselves because of the way society treats LBGTIQ people) have noticed.

 

I see we're back to the old 'kids are just pretending to be gay for attention' trope, which is disappointing,

You forgot "or they were molested and confused."

[bettyandbob]

I live in a very liberal place. Surrounded by conservative areas (dd says she doesn't want to leave the bubble).

 

Compared to when I was in high school (late 70s/early 80s), people recognize a continuum of sexual orientation and gender today. Understanding things as I do now I wouldn't think someone "went back in the closet." There's more to every individual than a one label response.