What Consequence for This Behavior?

[marbel]

I think you are comparing apples and oranges here.  She didn't give him groceries.  She gave him a shirt ... one she thought he would like.  I don't think of that as a common item.  I go to the grocery store several times a week.  I go to stores that sell shirts maybe 4 times a year.  So that is not ordinary.  My kids weren't big on clothes, but they at least weren't rude when I gave them clothing items that they needed but weren't particularly excited about.  They said thanks (for the thought) and put it aside. 

 

<snip>

 

 

But of course shirts are common items.  Kids wear shirts every day, whether they  are from the thrift store, the nicest department store in town, or handsewn by mom; it doesn't matter how often they are acquired.  They may not get many new shirts, but shirts are not uncommon.  They are necessary items, much like... groceries.  I don't mean that in a snarky way.  (And again, thinking of shirts that are ordinary, everyday items, not something special and desirable.)

 

What happens if a child needs a new shirt some time other than Christmas or their birthday?  Do they have to wait for a gift occasion?  What about other necessary clothing?  This is what I don't understand:  if it's a gift at Christmas but at other times of the year it's just something parents provide for their kids, I don't see how the kid will think of it as a gift.

[albeto.]

There is a difference between expressing frustration and being rude to other people. 

 

I think herein lies the real gist of the problem. I don't consider the behavior as explained in the OP to have been rude. Socially inappropriate, yes, but not with the intent I associate with rudeness. I recognize this is a subjective association, which is probably why such a simple sounding question elicits so many different opinions. 

 

I think I am entitled to family members who treat me with the same respect I give them.

 

Understood and agreed. I think children are entitled to the same, and for me that includes respecting wishes when asked. 

 

I don't think the rudeness expressed here was necessarily a punishable offense, but a gentle reminder of appropriateness and thankfulness is appropriate here

 

I agree. I don't agree with stopping festivities however, as I think that unjustly puts negative attention on the child. I think a quiet, private reminder would be sufficient to correct the behavior and prevent it in the future, and really, that's the goal, right? To encourage a different reply in the future? 

 

I want my kids to understand how fortunate they are, that there are many families who would love to be able to have presents to open on a tree rather than going to the food bank hoping to have something special to eat that day. 

 

I think this is an admirable goal, and one that can be accomplished in such a way that is considerate to a child. 

[December]

 

 

But, I have a problem with the idea that it is appropriate to be frustrated with a gift and to be rude to the giver.  Gifts are not entitlements.  If someone has the right to be frustrated over a gift, that sounds like an entitlement.  The only appropriate response to a gift is "thank you."  Even if it is something you detest.  The fact that someone cared enough about you to give you a gift worthy of thanks, no matter what the content (unless, of course, it was meant to be something mean.)  Even my "on the spectrum" kid learned that before 10 years old.  I don't think the rudeness expressed here was necessarily a punishable offense, but a gentle reminder of appropriateness and thankfulness is appropriate here (whether that was a do-over or a quiet reminder on the side.)  But, then again, growing up, I remember many Christmases and birthdays where there was barely any money for necessities, let alone wizz-bang-wow toys.  I want my kids to understand how fortunate they are, that there are many families who would love to be able to have presents to open on a tree rather than going to the food bank hoping to have something special to eat that day. 

 

I think if you're knowingly giving someone a gift that they don't want and they know you know they don't want it...I don't think an "ugh" type response is rude.  For instance, if I gave my hardcore conservative father a Hillary Clinton calendar as a gift, I would be hoping for an "ugh" type reaction.  It would be really disappointing to just get a polite thank you!  That's probably what you meant by "meant to be something mean" but I think a kid saying, "I don't want clothes", you get them clothes anyway, falls in the same category.  Either don't wrap up the clothes and present it as a Christmas gift or laugh off the "ugh" response.  I just don't see anything rude about reacting with a ugh when you know the person knows you don't want it.  In that context it was probably just meant to be funny. Now if the kid was doing it to other people who weren't in on his adamant NO CLOTHES request, then that would be rude.

[Catwoman]

I wrap the gifts I give. That's why it was wrapped.

To say I was upset at his reaction is a whopper of an exaggeration. I felt it was rude and needed to know if there should've been a consequence; nothing more, nothing less.

I think part of the reason why this thread ended up getting so serious is not so much because of your own posts, but because some of the others were very extreme. You never suggested that you thought it was a big gigantic issue, but others talked about ridiculous punishments and taking away gifts and donating shirts and gifts to Goodwill, and then there was the tangent of what is and is not appropriate to include on a Christmas list and whether or not kids should even be allowed to suggest what they might like to have as a gift, and well... :svengo: It all seems to have turned into a much bigger deal than you probably ever expected or intended.

[Laura Corin]

As a tck, old Europe mixed with usian, I hear this. We were given chocolate coins and oranges in our stockings as kids, even though it was more traditional than special. But we understood the tradition and we were connected to it, because that was our culture in our home. I don't know if many or most would be appropriate here (I suspect most) but lots of Americans don't have this connection to this tradition and so the kids don't understand it in this context. I married into a very stereotypical American white-bread family where there isn't a lot of connection to these kinds of traditions. This is one I haven't cultivated and so my kids would look at me funny to receive an orange in their stocking. But that doesn't make them entitled or unappreciative.

 

Oh, I agree: you need to be brought up with the tradition.  It would not occur to my boys to disparage their orange and chocolate coins, because it's what they have always known.  Indeed, they would find it odd if the traditional items were missing.  Suddenly giving an orange to a child without that background would be asking for trouble, however.

[Caroline]

I think you are comparing apples and oranges here. She didn't give him groceries. She gave him a shirt ... one she thought he would like. I don't think of that as a common item. I go to the grocery store several times a week. I go to stores that sell shirts maybe 4 times a year. So that is not ordinary. My kids weren't big on clothes, but they at least weren't rude when I gave them clothing items that they needed but weren't particularly excited about. They said thanks (for the thought) and put it aside.

.

I believe she was discussing the orange in the stocking not the shirt when she was talking about the groceries. Edited December 29, 2015 by Caroline

[SereneHome]

I've been thinking about this and thinking about this - clearly, I need to get a life.  For some reason this topic has struck a nerve.  I don't know why.

 

The is a book I started reading called The righteous mind:  Why good people are divided by politics and religion.  It talks about the very basic idea of right and wrong and also about how societies have established parameters and criteria for what is acceptable and not acceptable behaviour.

 

I've only been on these boards for a bit so don't know the posters and certainly don't know their stories and  backgrounds and it has been so interesting to read about completely different perspectives and stands on issues that are so very "same" to all of us: parenting, relationships, etc.

 

Random question to those of you who think child in OP should have been talked-to and/or punished.

 

Let's say you are making dinner (true story) and you are putting broccoli on your kid's place and he sees you and says he doesn't want any.  But you put it there anyway.  He gets his plate, looks at it and says "eeww, I don't want it".    What do you do?  Is he sent to bed without dinner?  Do you tell him that it's OK not to eat it?  After all, he asked you not do give it to him.  Do you ignore it completely and move on with life?

 

 

[barnwife]

 

Random question to those of you who think child in OP should have been talked-to and/or punished.

 

Let's say you are making dinner (true story) and you are putting broccoli on your kid's place and he sees you and says he doesn't want any.  But you put it there anyway.  He gets his plate, looks at it and says "eeww, I don't want it".    What do you do?  Is he sent to bed without dinner?  Do you tell him that it's OK not to eat it?  After all, he asked you not do give it to him.  Do you ignore it completely and move on with life?

I haven't participated in this yet...but here goes.

 

I *think* I would have said something in the moment with humor, as many pp said. I may also have warned him before opening that it wouldn't be a super exciting gift. At least, that's the strategy I currently take with our kids (3 kids, oldest is 5).

 

I can,however, address the above as it happens fairly regularly around here.

 

Our response is "we take a bite to be polite." IOW, it's staying on your plate, you don't have to eat it all, but taking a bite is the nice thing to do to show appreciation to the person/people who made you food.

 

 

[8circles]

Oh, I agree: you need to be brought up with the tradition.  It would not occur to my boys to disparage their orange and chocolate coins, because it's what they have always known.  Indeed, they would find it odd if the traditional items were missing.  Suddenly giving an orange to a child without that background would be asking for trouble, however.

 

Yes, absolutely.  

 

But I also think that you need context in order to make it work.  Like talking about WHY oranges.  I think for many kids in today's world where oranges aren't anything special, you need to explain it, too.  Without that, lots of kids would just be like "yeah, oranges in the stockings.  My parents are just weird".  I think most people who do it are wanting to spark that memory & appreciation of the "why" in their kids.  Otherwise I don't understand the point & it would be just a weird tradition.

[8circles]

I've been thinking about this and thinking about this - clearly, I need to get a life.  For some reason this topic has struck a nerve.  I don't know why.

 

The is a book I started reading called The righteous mind:  Why good people are divided by politics and religion.  It talks about the very basic idea of right and wrong and also about how societies have established parameters and criteria for what is acceptable and not acceptable behaviour.

 

I've only been on these boards for a bit so don't know the posters and certainly don't know their stories and  backgrounds and it has been so interesting to read about completely different perspectives and stands on issues that are so very "same" to all of us: parenting, relationships, etc.

 

Random question to those of you who think child in OP should have been talked-to and/or punished.

 

Let's say you are making dinner (true story) and you are putting broccoli on your kid's place and he sees you and says he doesn't want any.  But you put it there anyway.  He gets his plate, looks at it and says "eeww, I don't want it".    What do you do?  Is he sent to bed without dinner?  Do you tell him that it's OK not to eat it?  After all, he asked you not do give it to him.  Do you ignore it completely and move on with life?

 

I wouldn't give it to him, knowing it would be wasted.  I love broccoli & would eat it instead.  I would also ask said child to choose another fruit or veg from the fridge, unless I knew he had already have a couple servings that day.

 

But

 

I also ask my kids which vegetables they are willing/wanting to eat on a regular basis & I then serve them those items as often as possible.

[marbel]

<snip>

 

Let's say you are making dinner (true story) and you are putting broccoli on your kid's place and he sees you and says he doesn't want any.  But you put it there anyway.  He gets his plate, looks at it and says "eeww, I don't want it".    What do you do?  Is he sent to bed without dinner?  Do you tell him that it's OK not to eat it?  After all, he asked you not do give it to him.  Do you ignore it completely and move on with life?

 

I don't think of food at the dinner table as a gift so I don't care too much about them not wanting broccoli or whatever.  Now, I don't forcefeed either.  The rules are:  don't complain about the food because to do so is rude; take a bite because even if you didn't like it a month ago, you might like it now (or it might be cooked differently); if you truly can't eat it, find another veg or fruit to eat.

 

I didn't punish for saying "ewww, I don't want it" but I reminded them that it's not acceptable at the table.  Opinions on the food are welcome if and when asked for, and it's OK to say you don't care for it, but you may not go any further than that in expressing your total disgust of the dish.  I ask "should this go on the rotation?" and the opinions flow.

 

*We don't really have a rotation, but I'd like to.  Getting right on that.  :-)

 

Edited December 29, 2015 by marbel

[rocassie]

I've been thinking about this and thinking about this - clearly, I need to get a life.  For some reason this topic has struck a nerve.  I don't know why.

 

The is a book I started reading called The righteous mind:  Why good people are divided by politics and religion.  It talks about the very basic idea of right and wrong and also about how societies have established parameters and criteria for what is acceptable and not acceptable behaviour.

 

I've only been on these boards for a bit so don't know the posters and certainly don't know their stories and  backgrounds and it has been so interesting to read about completely different perspectives and stands on issues that are so very "same" to all of us: parenting, relationships, etc.

 

Random question to those of you who think child in OP should have been talked-to and/or punished.

 

Let's say you are making dinner (true story) and you are putting broccoli on your kid's place and he sees you and says he doesn't want any.  But you put it there anyway.  He gets his plate, looks at it and says "eeww, I don't want it".    What do you do?  Is he sent to bed without dinner?  Do you tell him that it's OK not to eat it?  After all, he asked you not do give it to him.  Do you ignore it completely and move on with life?

Responding because originally I said that I would talk to said child, although I would not have any type of consequence or punishment.  

 

In the above example, no I would not punish my child, send them to bed with out dinner, or make them eat it (although I do encourage them to at least try it.)  However, I would say something to the effect, "Honey saying "eewww" is not a polite way of saying you don't like something.  You know you need a vegetable at dinner, instead of saying "eewww, I don't want broccoli", please say, "I wouldn't care for any broccoli, I will get carrots (or whatever other vegetable) from the fridge."

 

In my household, saying "eeww" is rude, and I would address that specifically.  Because we are at the table and eating, I would address it in the moment.  The shirt gift, I would probably address private with the child.

[Catwoman]

Let's say you are making dinner (true story) and you are putting broccoli on your kid's place and he sees you and says he doesn't want any. But you put it there anyway. He gets his plate, looks at it and says "eeww, I don't want it". What do you do? Is he sent to bed without dinner? Do you tell him that it's OK not to eat it? After all, he asked you not do give it to him. Do you ignore it completely and move on with life?

I have never forced my ds to eat any food he doesn't like. If I knew he didn't like broccoli, I wouldn't put it on his plate and would have made another vegetable that I knew he would eat (and I would have made enough for the family.)

 

Personally, I think it's mean to try to force a kid to eat something he doesn't like. It seems like a control thing on the part of the parent.

 

I am appalled that anyone would ever send their child to bed without dinner just because he didn't want to eat the broccoli that his mother already knew he didn't like. That's just plain cruel. Honestly, sending a child to bed without dinner for any reason is a horrible thing to do. I would never do that.

Edited December 29, 2015 by Catwoman

[Laura Corin]

Yes, absolutely.  

 

But I also think that you need context in order to make it work.  Like talking about WHY oranges.  I think for many kids in today's world where oranges aren't anything special, you need to explain it, too.  Without that, lots of kids would just be like "yeah, oranges in the stockings.  My parents are just weird".  I think most people who do it are wanting to spark that memory & appreciation of the "why" in their kids.  Otherwise I don't understand the point & it would be just a weird tradition.

 

Well - yes and no.  Turkey is an absolutely central tradition for Christmas dinner in many households in the UK.  Turkey is not an expensive or unusual meat, so there's nothing inherently special about it.  As far as I know, there's no meaning to turkey either, and small households still serve it, so it's not just a question of feeding the hordes.  Many people find value in tradition even if there's no discernible underlying meaning.

[8circles]

Well - yes and no.  Turkey is an absolutely central tradition for Christmas dinner in many households in the UK.  Turkey is not an expensive or unusual meat, so there's nothing inherently special about it.  As far as I know, there's no meaning to turkey either, and small households still serve it, so it's not just a question of feeding the hordes.  Many people find value in tradition even if there's no discernible underlying meaning.

 

Yes about the Turkey.  But I don't think the orange-in-the-stocking is as well-known by children in the US as Turkey-for-xmas might be for people in the UK.  Although I admit I could be wrong.

 

I also agree about the bold.  I just don't know if it would apply to the oranges because of the above.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I've been thinking about this and thinking about this - clearly, I need to get a life.  For some reason this topic has struck a nerve.  I don't know why.

 

The is a book I started reading called The righteous mind:  Why good people are divided by politics and religion.  It talks about the very basic idea of right and wrong and also about how societies have established parameters and criteria for what is acceptable and not acceptable behaviour.

 

I've only been on these boards for a bit so don't know the posters and certainly don't know their stories and  backgrounds and it has been so interesting to read about completely different perspectives and stands on issues that are so very "same" to all of us: parenting, relationships, etc.

 

Random question to those of you who think child in OP should have been talked-to and/or punished.

 

Let's say you are making dinner (true story) and you are putting broccoli on your kid's place and he sees you and says he doesn't want any.  But you put it there anyway.  He gets his plate, looks at it and says "eeww, I don't want it".    What do you do?  Is he sent to bed without dinner?  Do you tell him that it's OK not to eat it?  After all, he asked you not do give it to him.  Do you ignore it completely and move on with life?

 

I wouldn't put it on his plate with no comment to begin with.   Ie.  I might still put it on his plate but I would put it there while saying something lighthearted about it being my job to give him vegetables or how it will put hair on his chest or something. 

 

And there is my issue with the situation in the OP.  Many people have suggested ways she could have had a conversation when she first saw the "no clothes" entry on the list.  Or ways she could have had a conversation when she handed him the gift.  Or ways she could have handled it without gift wrapping it.  All involve actually communicating with him the norms and standards of the family in a way that also respects his feelings. 

 

Responding with punishment after silence to what was first communicated by the child is what many people have felt was unfair.  (That, and some of the more harsh punishments suggested - not by the OP but by others.)

 

[Haiku]

I think you are comparing apples and oranges here.  She didn't give him groceries.  She gave him a shirt ... one she thought he would like. 

 

I was responding specifically to her post about not understanding why her kids didn't appreciate finding oranges in their stockings (young children, at that).

[zoobie]

We do the orange in the stocking thing here, along with toothbrushes. Both ordinary items, but it's tradition. I did buy light up Star Wars toothbrushes this year. :)

 

Kid says ewwwwww gross! about food gets corrected immediately with an alternate phrase and instruction to try again. Depending on age, he might get excused from the table to think for a few minutes on a more polite response. This is daily coaching though, not a once or twice a year event. Ugh, broccoli would get no response or a joking one. My older kids would not say anything at a friend's house or if we had guests beyond grandparents. I have sent older kids away from the dinner table for the duration of the meal when they're just in a snit and being rude to everyone about everything. They can fix themselves something later.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I was responding specifically to her post about not understanding why her kids didn't appreciate finding oranges in their stockings (young children, at that).

 

Which was another example of expecting children to understand the underlying reasons for things with no communication of the tradition behind it. 

 

[Haiku]

My kids get toothbrushes every year in their stockings. When they switched from toddler to kid toothbrushes, I bought them really fancy character toothbrushes and gave them as Christmas gifts. They loved them. The next year, I didn't give them toothbrushes. I mean, they're toothbrushes. They get them twice a year at the dentist and every month from the grocery.

 

Well, they wanted to know where their toothbrushes were! They wanted toothbrushes in their stockings!

 

So every year, each kid gets a toothbrush. This year, my dd13 was unloading the groceries and came to me with the toothbrushes. She looked around conspiratorially and said, in an exaggerated whisper, "I never saw these!" as she surreptitiously handed them to me. On Christmas morning they all ooh-ed and ahh-ed over the $1.00 Kroger toothbrushes

 

It's a tradition, and one with humor attached.

 

If I gave the kids bars of soap or mini bottles of shampoo, they would be confused and probably not think it was cool.

 

My dad gave me a pocket calendar every year when I was growing up. He stopped when we all got cell phones with calendars built in. I jokingly complained when he stopped doing it and demanded my rightful pocket calendar.

 

Traditions are one thing. Expecting kids to be excited about everyday items given as gifts is another. Sometimes people are rude. It doesn't make them awful people in need of punishment and character correction. It makes them human, not robots.

[teachermom2834]

This thread has taken lots of turns but I will say that when my oldest (now 17.5 yo) was young I might have erred on the harsh side of this scenario. All these years later I would probably giggle, make one passing comment along the lines of "you're welcome...it will look handsome on you and I couldn't pass it up."

 

Some would say that I have gotten soft. I say I've learned and improved my parenting skills.

[SKL]

I don't know why, but when I was a child, I did, and those things weren't particularly rare in my house. *shrug*

 

 

 

We also got oranges in our stockings some years, and we thought it was great.  It was really just a way to bulk up the stockings, but hey, what's not to love about a bulky stocking?  Besides, we thought it was Santa wanting us to eat healthy.  ;)  Later, when we knew who Santa really was, we understood and were supportive of what our parents were trying to do.

 

I dunno, most of us were well-adjusted kids who were pre-disposed to be happy on Christmas morning as long as we didn't get coal.  Luckily my parents didn't have to worry about offending their children on Christmas morning, and I don't think most parents should view Christmas morning as a minefield.  Now I do have a kid who has some issues (attachment related) and she can't just simply be happy at times that are supposed to be happy.  So I understand that this does happen, but it is not normal IMO.

 

So this "you disrespected your 11yo by not doing gifts per his expectations" is a little off the wall IMO.

 

I think it is unadvisable to let kids think everything is going to go exactly as they prefer / expect / demand.  Kids need to learn to be flexible and go with the flow with things that aren't life or death.  They don't have to embrace the unexpected all the time, but parents shouldn't be afraid of surprising their kids either.

[SKL]

Kids are much more sophisticated in their desires now than they were forty years ago, even if you tend to be a highly practical and non-faddish parent (which I am, too :) ). I remember my mother lamenting one year how kids are so hard to amuse nowadays. She was trying to show them a wooden spinning top. Well...gee, mom. They have video games where they have a first-person view of being a racecar driver, or a military man battling aliens. ;) Watching a wooden top spin kinda pales in comparison. I'm not a big believer in trying to cling to the standards of long ago. I can see where my mother tried to keep me sorta babyish because she was referencing ideas from her own childhhood. IMO, this just caused unnecessary angst and it would have been far better all around to accept that standards change and to change to an acceptable extent aling with it.

 

My kids are fascinated by old toys.  Last week they watched The House Without a Christmas Tree, which inspired my oldest to go find a box, a string, and some marbles and assemble her own kit of Marbles, which she made a point to bring along on our international trip.  :p  The old toys are sorta cool because kids can figure out how and why they work.  It takes a lot more to figure out how their Mario game or their remote control Harry Potter wand works.

 

I will probably buy a baton for my kid's upcoming birthday.  They have staff forms in upcoming TKD tests and want to learn the trick of fast twirling.  I'm pretty sure I can pick up a baton or two for a song, assuming they still exist.  :p

Edited December 29, 2015 by SKL

[SereneHome]

OK, so it seems most wouldn't give their kid broccoli if he requested not to.   But yet, many didn't see a problem with giving a kid clothes that he requested not to.  Why the difference in the opinion?

[Reefgazer]

My kids read books for hours a day.  Does that make them bad gifts?

But of course shirts are common items.  Kids wear shirts every day, whether they  are from the thrift store, the nicest department store in town, or handsewn by mom; it doesn't matter how often they are acquired.  They may not get many new shirts, but shirts are not uncommon.  They are necessary items, much like... groceries.  I don't mean that in a snarky way.  (And again, thinking of shirts that are ordinary, everyday items, not something special and desirable.)

 

What happens if a child needs a new shirt some time other than Christmas or their birthday?  Do they have to wait for a gift occasion?  What about other necessary clothing?  This is what I don't understand:  if it's a gift at Christmas but at other times of the year it's just something parents provide for their kids, I don't see how the kid will think of it as a gift.

 

Edited December 29, 2015 by reefgazer

[rocassie]

OK, so it seems most wouldn't give their kid broccoli if he requested not to.   But yet, many didn't see a problem with giving a kid clothes that he requested not to.  Why the difference in the opinion?

It's one thing to buy or give a child something they will not like, it's another to give them something they would prefer not to get as a gift to open.  For example, my DD HATES poofy dresses, however she does like and wear dresses.  I may buy her a dress (just because or as a gift), but I certainly wouldn't buy her as a gift a poofy dress.  

 

According to the OP, the t-shirt was a something her son would like and wear, and in fact did.  I equate it to cooking carrots for dinner, which my child likes, but when asked what I'm making, says, "I don't want carrots." then eats (without complaint) the spoonful I put on her plate.  And to top it off, exclaims "I love carrots!"

[mamiof5]

I honestly don't understand this way of thinking. Kids* are not entitled to clothing? That is not a basic need?

 

I'm not talking about special, desirable clothing, like a special graphic tee or something like that. But basic clothing that they need anyway - they are not entitled to that?

 

*living at home, completely dependent upon their parents. College kids and grown, up-and-out adult children are different.

 

ETA: Someone mentioned oranges. I can see a kid not being excited about an orange as a gift, unless oranges were a rare treat. Most people I know have fruit (sometimes oranges, sometimes not) available in their homes all the time, ready for their kids to take. So something like that would not seem like a treat, and certainly not a gift.

Totally agree on parents providing clothes, of course! And a home, schooling, transportation, food...many other needs. But, I never foster a feeling of entitlement in them. I am grateful for everything I have, for having food, shelter, clothing etc, and regardless of how I acquired it ( bought it, hand me down, a gift...doesn't matter), I am still grateful I have it, and don't feel entitled to it. Trying to foster the same feeling of gratitude in my children. Yes, we will more than gladly provide for them, would never not do it, but as it is my role to provide, in that situation their role is to be thankful and count their blessings. Don't get me wrong, I don't expect gratitude showing the entire day (I do stuff for them all day, don't we all?), but they can show gratitude, with their words and actions. If the OPs son was younger? Ok, he doesn't know any better. At 11? His response was unacceptable and he came across as a spoiled child, which I can tell he isn't, but in this particular case he did, and I'm sure the op handled it accordingly to what she expects from her son :)

[mamiof5]

OK, so it seems most wouldn't give their kid broccoli if he requested not to. But yet, many didn't see a problem with giving a kid clothes that he requested not to. Why the difference in the opinion?

We live the "you get what you get and don't throw a fit" mentality. As a family we have a few things we just don't like, but in general we eat what was made for dinner. I don't cater, my house is not a restaurant :)

[Jean in Newcastle]

OK, so it seems most wouldn't give their kid broccoli if he requested not to.   But yet, many didn't see a problem with giving a kid clothes that he requested not to.  Why the difference in the opinion?

 

I didn't say that I wouldn't give him broccoli - I said that I wouldn't do anything without responding to his comment to begin with.  And I said that I would respond with humor not harshness.  Personally, I would give broccoli if it were the only vegetable in the meal (unlikely in our family).  Otherwise, broccoli can be replaced with a vegetable he likes. 

[8circles]

 

 

So this "you disrespected your 11yo by not doing gifts per his expectations" is a little off the wall IMO.

 

I think it is unadvisable to let kids think everything is going to go exactly as they prefer / expect / demand.  Kids need to learn to be flexible and go with the flow with things that aren't life or death.  They don't have to embrace the unexpected all the time, but parents shouldn't be afraid of surprising their kids either.

 

It wasn't just the buying of something specifically asked NOT to get, but the expectation of perfect response afterwards.

 

If I told my DH, no clothing, & he then bought me clothing for xmas - even if I liked it - I would probably say "thank you" (because I'm an adult) but I wouldn't really mean I was glad to get it & I'd follow it up with "but I specifically asked not to get clothing".  I'd feel like he didn't hear me.  I would then say something like "I love you dearly, but I wish you had really listened to what I was asking for.  I assume you meant well, but if you didn't want to know what I wanted, you shouldn't have asked."  Kids probably don't have that kind of skill, so the "ugh, clothing" pretty much sums it up.

 

As to the bolded, I agree & I think it applies to parents as well.  I think the OP's DS did go with the flow.  He said "ugh, clothes" - he didn't stomp off in a snit.  The OP shouldn't be afraid of surprising her kids but she could have more appropriate expectations & learn to have fun with it instead of being offended that the specifically-NOT-asked-for gift wasn't appreciated in the moment.  Kids also shouldn't be afraid of being honest with their parents. 

[skimomma]

I would address the rudeness but privately, out of the moment, and gently.  No punishment.  Not because my feelings would be hurt but just so everyone knows how to respond when the disappointing gift come from someone who might be hurt.

 

Dd gets one gift from her us and one from Santa.  Both are not big ticket items and usually "fun" so clothing would not happen.  But if we missed the mark on a gift, I would still expect her to be gracious.  I would not gift her something she specifically asked to not be given since we are only giving two gifts to begin with (and we don't do lists anyway).  If we had the resources to shower her with gifts, I can see wrapping up some clothing or socks.  And I would expect a polite response.    Dd gets gifts from relatives that do not see her often and they are almost always off mark.  She is 12 and a HUGE reader.  My mom sent her board books for Christmas.  I wish I were kidding.....  She knows grandma means well but is older, out of touch with dd's generation, and does not know dd well.  Dd still wrote her a thank you note and while I could tell she was disappointed when she opened the gift, I am pretty sure no one else would have guessed.  That is life.  We all have to learn to deal with that sort of thing and it is a learning process.  So I would absolutely address it but again, not punish unless I knew it was a deliberate attempt to be hurtful.

 

For anyone keeping score, we do put oranges and other fruit in dd's stocking.  We live in an area where many fruits are expensive and we never just buy them for normal eating.  We tend to eat in season and locally.  So oranges, mangos, pomegranates, and persimmons are a HUGE treat.  We fill dd's stocking with fruit and a few small candies.  She either really truly loves this or is a great actress.  She savors those fruits over several days.

 

Also, I would not put the broccoli on the plate because it would be wasted.  Food is expensive and we do not waste food in our house.  Dd is not picky so I do not serve her the few things she does not like.  She does, on her own, try them once in a while.  If I am making something new that she has never tried and I put it on her plate I would expect her to be polite if she did not like it but would not encourage her to eat it.  

 

 

[barnwife]

OK, so it seems most wouldn't give their kid broccoli if he requested not to.   But yet, many didn't see a problem with giving a kid clothes that he requested not to.  Why the difference in the opinion?

I'll bite again. I'd give the kid broccoli, but I wouldn't micro-manage whether or not it got eaten. I also don't have a problem with giving a kid a gift they requested not to receive.

 

Why? Kids are still learning. They might think they don't like something, but I disagree. Heck, that could be true of adults too.

 

Again, I'd give a (most likely humorous) warning as they started to open the gift and not take the response too seriously. I also wouldn't make something like that they only gift (unless, of course, that decision was a financially necessary one).

 

I guess I am not who you really want to respond, because after all of that it doesn't seem like my thoughts are that of a difference of opinion in the two situations.

 

(FWIW, our kids get an orange and apple in their stockings. It's a tradition I am carrying on from my family. They also get fancy, character toothbrushes and travel toothpaste. I'd put nuts in too, except none of us like them enough to actually eat them. I'm thinking that next year they will each get a sample of some kid-friendly cereal. We never have cereal here, so they'd think it was a treat.)

 

 

[8circles]

We live the "you get what you get and don't throw a fit" mentality. As a family we have a few things we just don't like, but in general we eat what was made for dinner. I don't cater, my house is not a restaurant :)

 

Who threw a fit?  Did I miss something?

[marbel]

My kids read books for hours a day.  Does that make them bad gifts?

 

Not if they like books as gifts! 

 

No one, including me, has said that people can't give clothing or toilet paper or toothbrushes as gifts - as long as the recipient considers that item an appropriate and welcome gift.   If someone who liked to read told me that they preferred not to get books as gifts, I would not get that person a book, no matter how much I saw them read.  (Didn't a poster say that somewhere in this thread?)  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[mamiof5]

Who threw a fit? Did I miss something?

Was talking about our kids. No, they don't throw a fit ( well, mostly). I was trying to say they have to eat (or at least try a bite or two) of whatever we are having. We don't accept many "I don't want this or that" requests :)

[bolt.]

We've had "mountain out of a molehill" threads before... But this one sure takes the (cup)cake around here recently.

[Corraleno]

My kids read books for hours a day.  Does that make them bad gifts?

 

My kids get books as Christmas presents every year, but they are generally special books. I wouldn't give them the sort of plain old paperbacks that I would normally get them whenever they want, or books I expect them to read for school. Books I've given as presents include things like a vintage copy of an expensive Classical Greek dictionary, a large hardcover academic volume on world languages, and a book on building Greek linen-&-leather armor. This year I gave DS a signed copy of a book on invented languages written by the linguist who invented Dothraki for Game of Thrones. DD got the hardcover of Rick Riordan's new book, along with a companion guide to Norse mythology.

 

I used to give my late FIL a big stack of historical fiction and political thrillers every Christmas. The books themselves were nothing special or expensive; in that case the "gift" part was the time and effort I put into finding things I knew he would love. He was an avid reader but had limited mobility and couldn't get to bookstores to look around himself.

 

OTOH, I would never give books as presents to anyone who specifically requested "no books." 

[SKL]

Kids also shouldn't be afraid of being honest with their parents. 

 

No, but I don't see the issue here being too much honesty, but rude delivery.

 

Kids are learning, and we as parents have the job of teaching them that "ugh, what a crummy present" is not ever, ever, ever the right answer.  Ever.

 

Same goes for food.  No, I in no case is it ever OK for a kid over age 2 to say "ewww I don't like that" when being served.  There is always a better way, and it's my job to teach my kids better.

 

I said I would not make a stink about it on Christmas, but that does not mean the behavior in the OP is generally acceptable 11yo behavior - even if he said "please no clothes."

 

I care about my kids, so I work on their delivery of "honest feelings" with them on an on-going basis.  My kids are far from perfect and I don't expect perfection from them or from myself, but I have a job to do, and I intend to do my best at it.  This is hard work, I am not as successful as I'd like to be, but saying "she's just being honest" to that choice of words is a cop-out.

 

Now let me ask a random question.  If your kid told you "please no more math ever," would you stop giving him math, would you give him math but apologize for disrespecting his wish, would you give him math but allow him to throw a tantrum every time, or would you say "suck it up buttercup, all children have to study math"?  And I know someone is gonna say, "but you wouldn't give such a kid a math book for Christmas!"  Doesn't matter.  Kids need to learn how to be gracious about gifts that don't delight them.  They will receive many off-target gifts in their lives and "ugh" is not ever, ever, ever going to be an appropriate response.  Ever.  :)

[SKL]

It wasn't just the buying of something specifically asked NOT to get, but the expectation of perfect response afterwards.

 

Not a perfect response, just a reasonable not-rude 11yo response.

 

Some posts make it sound like an 11yo is incapable of being gracious about an unwanted gift.  Not so at all.  IME it is very rare for a child over 4/5 to be ungracious about a gift when around people other than immediate family.  If they know it doesn't fly outside of immediate family, they know it isn't nice, period.

Edited December 29, 2015 by SKL

[Catwoman]

OK, so it seems most wouldn't give their kid broccoli if he requested not to. But yet, many didn't see a problem with giving a kid clothes that he requested not to. Why the difference in the opinion?

No one said they would force him to wear the shirt.

 

It's kind of like offering the kid some broccoli and being fine with it if he says he doesn't want it, rather than putting it on his plate and punishing him if he doesn't eat it.

[8circles]

No, but I don't see the issue here being too much honesty, but rude delivery.

 

Kids are learning, and we as parents have the job of teaching them that "ugh, what a crummy present" is not ever, ever, ever the right answer.  Ever.

 

Same goes for food.  No, I in no case is it ever OK for a kid over age 2 to say "ewww I don't like that" when being served.  There is always a better way, and it's my job to teach my kids better.

 

I said I would not make a stink about it on Christmas, but that does not mean the behavior in the OP is generally acceptable 11yo behavior - even if he said "please no clothes."

 

I care about my kids, so I work on their delivery of "honest feelings" with them on an on-going basis.  My kids are far from perfect and I don't expect perfection from them or from myself, but I have a job to do, and I intend to do my best at it.  This is hard work, I am not as successful as I'd like to be, but saying "she's just being honest" to that choice of words is a cop-out.

 

Now let me ask a random question.  If your kid told you "please no more math ever," would you stop giving him math, would you give him math but apologize for disrespecting his wish, would you give him math but allow him to throw a tantrum every time, or would you say "suck it up buttercup, all children have to study math"?  And I know someone is gonna say, "but you wouldn't give such a kid a math book for Christmas!"  Doesn't matter.  Kids need to learn how to be gracious about gifts that don't delight them.  They will receive many off-target gifts in their lives and "ugh" is not ever, ever, ever going to be an appropriate response.  Ever.  :)

He didn't say "ugh, what a crummy present". & nobody has said that it wasn't rude, just acknowledged that it was not surprising, given the circumstance and could have been handled with humor or at least preparation beforehand.

 

As for math - I have never heard of kids school-subject wishlists, so your example doesn't make sense.  Unschoolers aside.  

 

Again, nobody has said kids don't need to learn to be gracious.  But it's difficult to learn grace from parents who don't show any themselves.

[Guest]

We've had "mountain out of a molehill" threads before... But this one sure takes the (cup)cake around here recently.

If only the OP had said it "sticks in her craw." ;)

[Jean in Newcastle]

We've had "mountain out of a molehill" threads before... But this one sure takes the (cup)cake around here recently.

 

The discussion centers around parenting style.  I personally have a more relaxed parenting style that allows for an occasional "ugh" with humor and yet some guidance. 

[SKL]

OTOH, I would never give books as presents to anyone who specifically requested "no books." 

 

My eldest has made it clear that she does not like books as presents, but she still gets them.  It's not the only present of course, but it helps to balance out what her sister gets (sister is a book maniac) and gives her more to unwrap.  She does eventually read many of the books, and the ones I buy her are carefully chosen with her in mind.  If she doesn't like it, tough toodles.  This Christmas when she opened the books, she said, "I don't like books" and left them on the floor as she went on to open other gifts.  I was not surprised or offended.  We will continue to work on being gracious about gifts received.  :)

 

[8circles]

Not a perfect response, just a reasonable not-rude 11yo response.

 

Some posts make it sound like an 11yo is incapable of being gracious about an unwanted gift.  Not so at all.  IME it is very rare for a child over 4/5 to be ungracious about a gift when around people other than immediate family.  If they know it doesn't fly around immediate family, they know it isn't nice, period.

 

 

I think there are differing opinions on whether "ugh, clothes" from an 11 yr-old in his own home, to his own parents is reasonable under these circumstances or not.  

 

Whether or not it is rare for a child to be ungracious over the age of 4/5 is also debatable, especially given that every home has differing levels of grace shown to children.  Children learn what they are taught.  If you want your child to be gracious - honestly gracious, not going through the motions gracious, then you should probably show them a lot of genuine grace.

[Catwoman]

He didn't say "ugh, what a crummy present". & nobody has said that it wasn't rude, just acknowledged that it was not surprising, given the circumstance and could have been handled with humor or at least preparation beforehand.

 

As for math - I have never heard of kids school-subject wishlists, so your example doesn't make sense. Unschoolers aside.

 

Again, nobody has said kids don't need to learn to be gracious. But it's difficult to learn grace from parents who don't show any themselves.

:iagree:

 

That is so true -- and I'm not talking about reefgazer, but about a few others who seem to almost delight in punishing their children for the tiniest perceived infractions. I have to say that I was shocked by at least a few of the posts in this thread, and not in a good way.

Edited December 29, 2015 by Catwoman

[Catwoman]

I think there are differing opinions on whether "ugh, clothes" from an 11 yr-old in his own home, to his own parents is reasonable under these circumstances or not.

 

Whether or not it is rare for a child to be ungracious over the age of 4/5 is also debatable, especially given that every home has differing levels of grace shown to children. Children learn what they are taught. If you want your child to be gracious - honestly gracious, not going through the motions gracious, then you should probably show them a lot of genuine grace.

Don't mind me, I'm just following you around and agreeing with you today. :)

 

I still don't understand how this thread became such a big deal. In the middle of the excitement of opening his Christmas gifts, the kid made a tiny little remark about a gift he wasn't expecting and then everything else was fine. He doesn't have a long and horrible history of being rude; it was an offhand comment and then it was over. He made the remark in the safety of his own home to his own mother, not to his grandmother or his aunt or a friend. It sounds like he would know to be polite in those cases, and that he is generally polite to his family as well, but he had an honest reaction to one small gift in his own home where he assumed it was okay to express his true feelings.

 

This was a one-time little nothing thing. I don't understand the idea that anyone would think there should be consequences. :confused:

[8circles]

Don't mind me, I'm just following you around and agreeing with you today. :)

 

I still don't understand how this thread became such a big deal. In the middle of the excitement of opening his Christmas gifts, the kid made a tiny little remark about a gift he wasn't expecting and then everything else was fine. He doesn't have a long and horrible history of being rude; it was an offhand comment and then it was over. He made the remark in the safety of his own home to his own mother, not to his grandmother or his aunt or a friend. It sounds like he would know to be polite in those cases, and that he is generally polite to his family as well, but he had an honest reaction to one small gift in his own home where he assumed it was okay to express his true feelings.

 

This was a one-time little nothing thing. I don't understand the idea that anyone would think there should be consequences. :confused:

 

I agree with you back :D.

 

I WAS such a one-time little nothing thing.  I like that phrase.

[Corraleno]

My eldest has made it clear that she does not like books as presents, but she still gets them.  It's not the only present of course, but it helps to balance out what her sister gets (sister is a book maniac) and gives her more to unwrap.  She does eventually read many of the books, and the ones I buy her are carefully chosen with her in mind.  If she doesn't like it, tough toodles.  This Christmas when she opened the books, she said, "I don't like books" and left them on the floor as she went on to open other gifts.  I was not surprised or offended.  We will continue to work on being gracious about gifts received.  :)

 

 

I really do not comprehend the point of knowingly giving someone a "present" they don't like and don't want. How is that a "gift"???

 

If the only reason you are giving this child books is to create the illusion of "equality," then really these "gifts" are there for your sake not hers. If you want to truly "balance" the gifts, then give them both what they want rather than giving one what she wants and then adding unwanted filler to other child's pile.

[Catwoman]

I really do not comprehend the point of knowingly giving someone a "present" they don't like and don't want. How is that a "gift"???

 

If the only reason you are giving this child books is to create the illusion of "equality," then really these "gifts" are there for your sake not hers. If you want to truly "balance" the gifts, then give them both what they want rather than giving one what she wants and then adding unwanted filler to other child's pile.

Yes, and it's not fair if one dd likes and wants the books, but the other one would have preferred something different. Why not just buy books for one dd and other little things for the other dd?