emzhengjiu Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 I'm all for protesting, but I just don't see how this can be legal! About a dozen armed protesters gathered at a mosque in Irving. According to the report some of the protesters carried riffles or other long guns. A couple of the protesters were masked. Open carry is legal in Texas as it is in many states. This seems less of a protest and more intimidation. This is the first time I've heard of protesters openly carrying weapons. If people with guns were outside my church I would be on the phone with 911 and be expecting a SWAT team to arrive. http://thescoopblog.dallasnews.com/2015/11/armed-protesters-set-up-outside-islamic-center-of-irving.html/ ETA: The people attending the service at the mosque were told to ignore the protesters and thankfully nothing happened. ETA: I changed the title because the original was probably too inflammatory. When I read the article early this morning, I was shocked and upset that protesters could openly carry guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 (edited) This just makes me sad. And sick to my stomach. How does that help anything for anyone? If they feel the need to protest, fine. Why were they allowed to come armed? If armed Muslim protesters had showed up at a Catholic or a Protestant church in Irving there would have been all kinds of hoopla and freaking out and I seriously doubt they would have been allowed to remain. This is not going to help. It only makes things worse. Edited November 22, 2015 by OneStepAtATime 15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catz Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 I cannot imagine the reaction if tables were turned. I'm glad it appears to be a small group. Just sad. If you enjoy the freedom to chose and practice your own religion, everyone else gets theirs too. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amira Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 I'm pretty sure that open carry laws don't apply equally to everyone and that's a major reason to oppose them. I'm not a fan of concealed carry either, but at least cc permits aren't based on race, ethnicity, or religion. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butter Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 Open carry is legal in Texas as it is in many states. Actually, this isn't true at this time. Open carry will be legal on January 1, 2016, but not right now. http://www.opencarrytexas.org/faq.html Plain and simple, this is sick. Being masked says to me they have nefarious purposes (or they know it is illegal to open carry for another few weeks and don't want to be identified). They claimed the guns were for their own protection. Really? I just don't think so. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiguirre Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 (edited) Open carry of long arms is legal in TX. Remember the idiots taking their weapons to Sonic and Target? I drive by a mosque on Fridays and this week there were three black Crown Vics in the parking lot. I imagine most mosques were worried about trouble. We were probably lucky this was the worst of it. ETA: The law that goes into effect of 1/1/16 is to allow CCL holders to openly carry holstered side arms. Part of that law allows CCL holders to open carry at universities which has people fairly freaked out. Edited November 22, 2015 by chiguirre 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pawz4me Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 Disgraceful. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 Actually, this isn't true at this time. Open carry will be legal on January 1, 2016, but not right now. http://www.opencarrytexas.org/faq.html Plain and simple, this is sick. Being masked says to me they have nefarious purposes (or they know it is illegal to open carry for another few weeks and don't want to be identified). They claimed the guns were for their own protection. Really? I just don't think so. The police were at the site of the protest and presumably would have taken action if the protesters were violating the law. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butter Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 Open carry of long arms is legal in TX. Remember the idiots taking their weapons to Sonic and Target? Oh, right. Long arms. I can honestly say I have never seen anyone open carrying anything the entire time we've lived here. I support the right to bear arms. Having a rifle... however they carry them... at a Sonic or in a Target? Not so much. And I still call BS that they needed those weapons to protect themselves. They were trying to intimidate the Muslims in the mosque. And they know it. Irving has a long history of anti-Muslim sentiment. If I were a Muslim I would be very uncomfortable living there. Heck, as a Christian who also supports the right to choose my own religion and the free exercise thereof, I would be very uncomfortable living in Irving. 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 I get that this is newsworthy, but I can't help but see this news story as a real-life case of feeding the trolls. It sounds like the mosque members ignored the protesters for the most part, and given that police were there to ensure it was a peaceful protest, I think that was the best way to handle it. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoobie Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 The police were at the site of the protest and presumably would have taken action if the protesters were violating the law. Or would've shot them anyway if they weren't white. Imagine masked men of color with long arms outside...anywhere. How would that end? 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matryoshka Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 First we have a suggestion that "that minority" is the cause of all our problems and a demagogue promising that if we just round them up and put them behind a wall, it will magically get rid of them and our problems, and it will make this country great again. Then he suggests we have a registry for another minority. People are ejected from his speeches for disagreeing with his rhetoric. Now we have what amount to brownshirts taking things into their own hands. Does this not sound terrifyingly familiar to anyone else?? This is why Germany does not allow hate speech as 'free' speech - they went down this road already. Words have power, especially when spouted unchecked from someone in a position of power... 25 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emzhengjiu Posted November 22, 2015 Author Share Posted November 22, 2015 I'm going to change the subject so it's not so inflammatory. That wasn't my intent. I'm concerned about bringing weapons to any protest, not just at mosques. I don't understand how that can be legal, but maybe laws tend to behind issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spryte Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 That must have been terrifying for the people inside. :( 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 Then he suggests we have a registry for another minority. That's a lie. He didn't suggest a registry. A reporter did. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocolateReignRemix Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 I get that this is newsworthy, but I can't help but see this news story as a real-life case of feeding the trolls. It sounds like the mosque members ignored the protesters for the most part, and given that police were there to ensure it was a peaceful protest, I think that was the best way to handle it. Except intimidation is never peaceful, and what choice did the mosque members have other than to ignore it? 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocolateReignRemix Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 That's a lie. He didn't suggest a registry. A reporter did. He was asked whether he would support a registry. Rather than saying what any normal person would say (ie "No!"), this is what we got: Mr. Trump was asked about the issue by an NBC News reporter and pressed on whether all Muslims in the country would be forced to register. “They have to be,†he said. “They have to be.’’ When asked how a system of registering Muslims would be carried out — whether, for instance, mosques would be where people could register — Mr. Trump said: “Different places. You sign up at different places. But it’s all about management. Our country has no management.’’ Asked later, as he signed autographs, how such a database would be different from Jews having to register in Nazi Germany, Mr. Trump repeatedly said, “You tell me,†until he stopped responding to the question. http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2015/11/20/donald-trumps-call-for-muslim-registry-denounced-by-democrats/ 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 Being legal doesn't make it right or moral. 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catherine Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 That's a lie. He didn't suggest a registry. A reporter did. He said it: http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/trump-says-he-would-certainly-implement-muslim-database-n466716 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mergath Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 Except intimidation is never peaceful, and what choice did the mosque members have other than to ignore it? :iagree: Just because no one was shot, doesn't make it okay. I really don't think it should be legal to open carry at a protest. What possible reason could someone have for doing that except intimidation? The second amendment protects the right to own guns. It doesn't give you the right to do anything you want with them and bring them everywhere you go. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 Being legal doesn't make it right or moral. I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 (edited) nm Edited November 22, 2015 by Word Nerd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 :iagree: Just because no one was shot, doesn't make it okay. Just to be clear, I never said the fact that the protest was legal makes it OK. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 He said it: http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/trump-says-he-would-certainly-implement-muslim-database-n466716 He did not suggest a registry. The thing he would certainly implement is the wall, to make sure people are only able to enter the country legally. A database can't do that. I don't know if he was even paying full attention to the reporter. From what I've seen, he also likes to mess with reporters. ("You tell me.") This wasn't a formal interview and fortunately there will be many times in future interviews and debates when he will have to explain his views and intentions. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThisIsTheDay Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 Being legal doesn't make it right or moral. This is true for a lot of things in this country. However, this country does not have a single source for what is "right" or "moral." Yes, people can be idiots. I wonder at the logic of those who thought this way of protesting was a good idea. And it must have been terrifying for people inside. But laws are written to protect everyone, and that includes stupid people and criminals. Based on the comments I'm seeing here, I'm thinking this is perhaps a JAWM post--or at least just agree with everyone who agrees with the original post. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mergath Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 He did not suggest a registry. The thing he would certainly implement is the wall, to make sure people are only able to enter the country legally. A database can't do that. I don't know if he was even paying full attention to the reporter. From what I've seen, he also likes to mess with reporters. ("You tell me.") This wasn't a formal interview and fortunately there will be many times in future interviews and debates when he will have to explain his views and intentions. I don't see that it matters if he suggested it, or someone else did and he just thought it was a fantastic idea. If he can't see what's wrong with a registry or database for all the people of a certain religion or ethnic group, he shouldn't be running for president. 20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocolateReignRemix Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 He did not suggest a registry. The thing he would certainly implement is the wall, to make sure people are only able to enter the country legally. A database can't do that. I don't know if he was even paying full attention to the reporter. From what I've seen, he also likes to mess with reporters. ("You tell me.") This wasn't a formal interview and fortunately there will be many times in future interviews and debates when he will have to explain his views and intentions. Did you read his actual quotes on just the spin he is now putting on it? I didn't know someone had to say something in a formal interview or it didn't count. News to me. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocolateReignRemix Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 (edited) This is true for a lot of things in this country. However, this country does not have a single source for what is "right" or "moral." Yes, people can be idiots. I wonder at the logic of those who thought this way of protesting was a good idea. And it must have been terrifying for people inside. But laws are written to protect everyone, and that includes stupid people and criminals. Based on the comments I'm seeing here, I'm thinking this is perhaps a JAWM post--or at least just agree with everyone who agrees with the original post. Or we could simply end open carry as it serves no purpose. I don't know this is a JAWM as much as simply most rational, thinking adults agree it is not a good idea to allow armed protesters to gather outside the houses of worship of others. Edited November 22, 2015 by ChocolateReignRemix 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mergath Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 This is true for a lot of things in this country. However, this country does not have a single source for what is "right" or "moral." Yes, people can be idiots. I wonder at the logic of those who thought this way of protesting was a good idea. And it must have been terrifying for people inside. But laws are written to protect everyone, and that includes stupid people and criminals. Based on the comments I'm seeing here, I'm thinking this is perhaps a JAWM post--or at least just agree with everyone who agrees with the original post. I don't know, I really think the vast majority of us can get on board with the idea that taking a bunch of guns and open carrying to intentionally intimidate families going to their place of worship is pretty darn immoral. 15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThisIsTheDay Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 (edited) Or we could simply end open carry as it serves no purpose. I don't know this is a JAWM as much as simply most rational, thinking adults agree it is not a good idea to allow armed protesters to gather outside the houses of worship of others. I never said it was a good idea. In fact, I basically said the opposite. Edited November 22, 2015 by ThisIsTheDay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocolateReignRemix Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 I never said it was a good idea. In fact, I basically said the opposite. Where we differ is that I believe it is fairly simple to make it illegal without hurting society in the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThisIsTheDay Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 Where we differ is that I believe it is fairly simple to make it illegal without hurting society in the least. If it is truly "fairly simple," then we shall see it become illegal soon, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 We all seem to be in agreement about the answer to the question in the revised thread title. So why are we still arguing? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocolateReignRemix Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 If it is truly "fairly simple," then we shall see it become illegal soon, right? Sadly, no. By fairly simple I mean that all we would need to do is do away with open carry laws. If open carry were illegal, then we would not have an issue with idiots carrying rifles to protests. Unfortunately, the NRA has enough slack-jawed imbeciles (many of whom overlap with the nutters who think carrying guns outside of mosques is a damn fine thing to do to protect 'Murica) donating to them that it is unlikely that open carry will be banned in certain states. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albeto. Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 (edited) nm Edited November 22, 2015 by Susan Wise Bauer Leaping into this thread to condemn all religious belief is off-topic and inflammatory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audrey Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 Such a weird subject for a moderator to post. Is this for ferreting out heated argument for the purpose of banning people or just the usual bizarre Americentric gun lust topic of the day? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spryte Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 Such a weird subject for a moderator to post. Is this for ferreting out heated argument for the purpose of banning people or just the usual bizarre Americentric gun lust topic of the day? It certainly is treading into political waters. I thought that was against board rules? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emzhengjiu Posted November 22, 2015 Author Share Posted November 22, 2015 Such a weird subject for a moderator to post. Is this for ferreting out heated argument for the purpose of banning people or just the usual bizarre Americentric gun lust topic of the day? Wow! I'm just a "moderator" to help control spam not anything else. I live in the Dallas area and was very surpised to read the article this morning. It seems to me to be a valid topic for discussion except for the Trump part I suppose. That does seem political. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 I think that what's legal otherwise should be legal at a protest. And vice versa. Guns don't scare me unless they are in the hands of a criminal. Guns aren't moral or immoral, ethical or unethical. That said, I do believe that carrying a gun can be seen as an intimidation tactic. I recall when the Black Panthers stood at the doors to polling places with long weapons. Perfectly legal and nobody attempted to stop them. I personally would not use a gun to "make a statement" in a protest situation. Neither would I leave my gun at home just because I happened to be on my way to a protest. One assumes that people on both sides of the protest have the same rights. They can both carry guns as long as they are legal gun owners, right? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butter Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 The problem I'm seeing is I don't really see what they did as a protest. I see it they were trying to intimidate a group of people and the guns and masks were part of that intimidation. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 Just a thought - is it "open carry" if the person is wearing a mask? (Would the answer differ if the person was a Muslim female wearing a headcovering?) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 I'm pretty sure that open carry laws don't apply equally to everyone and that's a major reason to oppose them. I'm not a fan of concealed carry either, but at least cc permits aren't based on race, ethnicity, or religion. Can you please expand on the first part of your first sentence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susan Wise Bauer Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 1) The OP is not a board administrator. She helps with spam. She can post anything she likes as a regular board member, as long as it doesn't violate board rules. The original post is not partisan and doesn't violate rules. 2) Having said that, this discussion doesn't seem to be going in a helpful way, so I'm closing the thread. SWB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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