ChocolateReignRemix Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 You are not making sense. Why would we NOT tell our church leadership that a child molester is going to our church? Because they didn't pass out the letter at our church but at a family camp? Why are you holding off giving the letter to the police? f you said you were giving the letter to the police and your church, that would make sense. Saying you are holding off giving the letter to the police for "reasons" and insisting you need to talk to the wife of an elder first doesn't make sense. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Lulu* Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 You are not making sense. Why would we NOT tell our church leadership that a child molester is going to our church? Because they didn't pass out the letter at our church but at a family camp?You absolutely should talk to your church leadership. You can give them a copy of the letter, share what you've shared here, tell them you've passed the letter on to law enforcement, and ask what protocols are in place to keep the children in the congregation safe and support the daughters in whatever comes next. 21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocolateReignRemix Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 You absolutely should talk to your church leadership. You can give them a copy of the letter, share what you've shared here, tell them you've passed the on to law enforcement, and ask what protocols are in place to keep the children in the congregation safe and support the daughters in whatever comes next. And THAT would make sense. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IfIOnly Posted July 23, 2015 Author Share Posted July 23, 2015 So the family camp wasn't a church related event? Why are a couple of empty nesters at family camp? It's not a hypothetical question for a lot of posters. When people say they would report it, don't assume they have no way of knowing what they would do. That's patronizing. Unfortunately a lot of us have all too much real life experience with abuse and reporting people and we know exactly what we would do. Because, details somewhat different, we have had to do it. Some of there (grown) children were there too.Their family has being going to this camp for many, many years. I have never not reported or looked the other way and have had to do very difficult things, as well. And will do the same in this situation, too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamajag Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Does mandatory reporting apply to something that happened 15 years ago to a person who is now a (non-disabled) adult who lives elsewhere? I thought the point of mandatory reporting was to get the child victim out of the situation. Does anyone think the victim's opinion matters in this situation? Of course we don't know that he hasn't been reported. No, no one needs to contact the victim. They need to report this guy because it's very likely he has other victims that are likely current. The man who tortured my sister and I was known in his family as what he was and no one ever told my mom when she was a single woman with 2 kids because his last victim was a couple decades before. So yes, report and let law enforcement do their job. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Can we please support the person who is stuck in a horrific situation? She's dealing with it. She asked for advice, not condemnation. She is not stuck in a horrific situation- she was made privy to one. And she is *creating* one. The man IS a criminal even if his only crimes were years ago. There is no nuance or context that makes not having taken the letter to the police ok. The very fact that she had to ask is the first level of concern. She is not a victim here. 25 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Florida. Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Gently: It seems like you already had your mind made up before asking the question in your title, What would you do? Many posters have said they'd go to the police and recommended that you do that. Each time you keep saying you can't/won't. I don't understand what you're actually asking here. 15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 You guys aren't being very gentle. You have made your case, now I don't see the point of shaming the OP. It's not like she is the child molester. She is part and parcel of the culture (in this case in a church) that allows sexual assault to continue unabated. 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albeto. Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Can we please support the person who is stuck in a horrific situation? She's dealing with it. She asked for advice, not condemnation. We are trying. We're helping her see what's going on through the fog of shock and surprise. It can be hard to see and think straight when blindsided. I say this with genuine sympathy and some experience. No one is not trying to support her. But I'll be damned if the child doesn't come first. And between the OP's fragile emotions (understandable, I don't mean that lightly), and the possibility of stopping the torture of a child today, I will speak up for the child. Every time. I'm not alone. 30 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamajag Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 I just agreed with albeto. That's pretty much /thread. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FO4UR Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 You must report it, immediately. Do it yourself. If you are in a small community, yeah, there will be some revenge from him or his friends and maybe even his family (who was abused). So be it. Modern day martyr. This is what it looks like. Stand up, and do what is right even when others persecute you for it. For the safety of your own dc, report this! You will gain a reputation of being a woman who doesn't let abuse happen openly and without consequence. Creepers will know your own children will not be easy victims. Do not attend a church or a camp that allows this! For the safety of your own dc, let the leadership know the issue, let them know what YOU expect to happen as a result. Follow through. If the pastor reports and takes safe steps, good. If not, you cannot trust that church. That said, I know from experience that the pastor will not likely tell you plainly anything specific b/c of privacy laws, but he can tell you that "any crimes that require mandated reporting have been reported." I understand that there are risks involved in reporting. Report it anyway. Also, b/c you have a relationship with the daughter, I would contact her asap and let her know what you've reported, and let her know that you care about her. I 100% agree that the timing of this letter is very disturbing. I would bet my lunch that other children are being abused. 18 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trulycrabby Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Respectfully, gently: OP, based upon what you have told us, I think you are making the wrong decision. :grouphug: 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trulycrabby Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 dp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwik Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 I would wonder if he actually wanted to confess but couldn't bring himself too and is exoecting you to solve his problem by taking his confession to the police for him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albeto. Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 I just agreed with albeto. That's pretty much /thread. :laugh: Kids come first, right? Whatever else you and I may disagree about, the kids come first. End of story. 22 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamajag Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Turning that letter over to the police is the only way this doesn't end with you begging Jesus for forgiveness for allowing his future victims to be victimized. He's being enabled now. It will happen again, and this time you will be partially responsible. As far as your justifications about needing proof, you have a letter from him. That's all you need to get them looking into him. Yes, it's horrible. But I keep coming back to wondering if you want your husband to finish the paid work this man has offered before hand? 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamajag Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 dp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Nyssa Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 OP, wishing you the best as you negotiate this situation. I have friends whose community was thrown into turmoil through the mis-handling of a situation like this, so I hope it gets resolved rightly for you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwg Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 OP, wishing you the best as you negotiate this situation. I have friends whose community was thrown into turmoil through the mis-handling of a situation like this, so I hope it gets resolved rightly for you. How did they mishandle it if you do not mind me asking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Turning that letter over to the police is the only way this doesn't end with you begging Jesus for forgiveness for allowing his future victims to be victimized. He's being enabled now. It will happen again, and this time you will be partially responsible. As far as your justifications about needing proof, you have a letter from him. That's all you need to get them looking into him. Yes, it's horrible. But I keep coming back to wondering if you want your husband to finish the paid work this man has offered before hand? I am wondering that, as well. If LavenderGirl is in a position where her dh absolutely needed the payment from the man in order to support their family or else they would lose their home and be out on the street, I can sort of understand why she delayed a bit in filing a report -- but waiting a day or two is one thing; waiting weeks or months is simply enabling this man to molest more children in the meantime, and no amount of money is worth risking a child's safety. I have to say, though, that if someone actually handed me a confession in writing, I would be so thankful to have evidence to give the police so he could be stopped. How often does anyone get the opportunity to do that kind of good for society? I don't care if it was my best friend; I would go straight to the police. Child molesters are their own special brand of evil, no matter how nice they may act, and seriously LavenderGirl, do you really want to remain friends with a child molester and the wife who seemingly enabled him to molest their own child??? Does your dh really want to work for a pervert? Can he really look the guy in the face and not despise him for what he did to his own dd and wonder if the guy will be molesting some other little girl tonight after work? I would never be able to look at him the same way again, and I can't imagine working with him or for him and acting like nothing ever happened. I couldn't do it. I could most certainly never be friends with him again. Never. The more I think about it, the more I think about how mortified I would be to discover that a friend was a child molester. I wouldn't be worried about his feelings or his wife's feelings or what the people at church would say. I would be so angry that I would be been on my way to the police station the minute after he handed me the letter. It wouldn't even occur to me to think about the consequences. I would just want the guy arrested and investigated. LavenderGirl, I know you must feel like you are being attacked from all sides here, and I am sorry about that. I know you are worried and upset and that you want to do the right thing. I'm sure that most of us sympathize with you and are sorry you were put in the middle of this situation, but we are even more concerned about the fact that right now, as I type this post, that horrible man may be molesting another child. Right now. And you can be the one who reports him. Please report him. 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparrowsNest Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 I'm a little confused on who (other than the OP) has a copy of the letter. If the pastor has it, I would see if the pastor has notified the authorities. If the pastor doesn't have it, then it is incumbent upon you, OP, to turn the letter in to the police. I'd imagine you could do this anonymously just by dropping it in the mail with no return address. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purplejackmama Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Why would the church leadership be told before law enforcement? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 LG, I'm so curious what them moment was like when he was passing out this letter?? I'm mostly a classy gal but I'm pretty sure "WTF are you telling me this for, A-hole?? Step away from my family." would have been my first reaction. Did anyone there confront him when presented with this letter?? 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparrowsNest Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Why would the church leadership be told before law enforcement? Not sure if that is to me or not. I'm saying if the pastor is known to have the letter, I would simply check if the authorities have already been notified. I am not saying, "First, go to your pastor." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Nobody is guilty of child molestation except for the criminal. Isn't intimidation inappropriate on this board? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purplejackmama Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Not sure if that is to me or not. I'm saying if the pastor is known to have the letter, I would simply check if the authorities have already been notified. I am not saying, "First, go to your pastor." Sorry, I was asking the OP. I thought I read up thread that they had calls into church leaders. I'm just curious why they would do that before telling the police. Maybe I misread? This whole thread is very interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albeto. Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Nobody is guilty of child molestation except for the criminal. Isn't intimidation inappropriate on this board? No one is intimidating anyone on this board. No one is supporting covering up child molestation. The two should never be confused for each other. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErinE Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 She is part and parcel of the culture (in this case in a church) that allows sexual assault to continue unabated. I was willingly estranged for a number of years from people I loved very much, because my parent supported my siblings and me refusing to see a child molester. The child molester was invited to weddings, reunions, and holiday gatherings, which my family then had to skip because he would be there. I missed my loved ones so much during those years apart, but even as a child, I made the decision, because it was the right one. For years, when asked why I didn't see the child molester, I named him for what he was. I stated his crime. His shame was not mine. The right thing is to report this man to the authorities, by whatever law you seek to cite, whether legal, moral, or spiritual. 23 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IfIOnly Posted July 23, 2015 Author Share Posted July 23, 2015 OP, wishing you the best as you negotiate this situation. I have friends whose community was thrown into turmoil through the mis-handling of a situation like this, so I hope it gets resolved rightly for you. Yep. And I've experienced much worse as a result. I didn't grow up in church so a lot of that was not at all church related. Just covering out bases before it gets real. I'm sorry that you all think I shouldn't take a few precautions to protect my family beforehand,. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audrey Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Can we please support the person who is stuck in a horrific situation? She's dealing with it. She asked for advice, not condemnation. She asked "what would you do?" People are telling her what they would do. People are also incredibly aghast at her inaction insofar regarding the confession. OP has come back with more detail that is disturbing to say the least and not particularly favourable to her. The detail on financial involvement is... terribly unsettling. It makes it sound as if her quest to protect her family is, at least in part, to protect that money. I can't quite wrap my brain around that bit of it. I don't want to think someone places monetary gain over the safety and life of other children. The whole puzzle OP is presenting is bizarre enough without that piece in it. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albeto. Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 I just had a friend get screwed over big time because of rushing to the police re: my post upthread. I'm sorry if that is the reality I've experienced. I'm sorry that you all think I shouldn't take a few precautions to protect my family beforehand,. This kind of passive aggressive hostility isn't helpful. Surely you don't really think people are offended because your experiences were problematic, or because you want to protect your family. Are you comfortable answering how you're preparing to protect your family? You've been preparing for 5 days now. What are you preparing against? Would it help for an unbiased, unrelated party to take the letter to the police for you? I think part of the confusion is in the answers you provide for why you're still sitting on this. The guy confessed to his peer group. This is a factor for you. In what way? What possible reason could that have for neglecting to report a crime? Do you feel you need proof before bringing the letter to the police? What difference does it make that your husband has started work with the man? Ethically speaking, do you think he'd have a reasonable argument to terminate this agreement? I think so, as this is analogous to taking blood money. Money for blood, or in this case, money for hiding crimes against children, is worth turning away from, imo. 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamajag Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Albeto, if you don't quit making so much sense I am going to start thinking I'm in an alternate reality. :laugh: 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IfIOnly Posted July 23, 2015 Author Share Posted July 23, 2015 We're talking about a long term work project here. The dilemma isn't how to keep the work contract. Quite the opposite. ETA: There's much more involved too. Much. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamajag Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Just as something to think about...I forgave my former stepfather years ago. I have yet to be able to sincerely not hate the people who knew what he was and kept his secret. Please don't be those people. 16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mergath Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 ETA: There's much more involved too. Much. IMO, none of it matters. If you found out he'd murdered someone, would you put off going to the police because there are business and financial considerations? How is this any different? He committed a crime. He handed you a written confession. Bring it to the police. 14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QueenCat Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 IMO, none of it matters. If you found out he'd murdered someone, would you put off going to the police because there are business and financial considerations? How is this any different? He committed a crime. He handed you a written confession. Bring it to the police. It's no different. Not reporting a crime to the law in this type of case is beyond my comprehension. 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garga Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 My tone is gentle and quiet through this post: This whole situation sounds like a mess. I'm sad for you that you're stuck in the middle of it. You're getting upset with what we're saying on here, but you have information you're not sharing with us. Without the informational that you have that we don't know, your actions don't make sense. I'm not saying that accusingly. I'm only saying it so you understand that we're not deliberately picking on you or being mean to you just to be mean. We just don't understand why you are hesitating. We don't know what happened to your friend and we don't know what your reasons are or what problems you forsee. It's hard to give advice that is helpful without all the facts. We don't have all the facts. With the facts we do have, the advice we've given is good. It's almost impossible for us to think of what other facts might change our advice, so I think we're all collectively feeling frustration and wondering what other facts you have that are causing you to hesitate. I hope you update us with what ends up happening because this is an upsetting thread and I'd like to know the outcome for my own peace of mind. I'm thinking you're waiting for whatever reason but soon you'll turn in the letter and then we can all breathe a sigh of relief. I wish, I really wish, I could sound more supportive of you, but it's really hard to understand the situation with the limited facts we have. It's hard to take it on faith that you know something extra that would change all our tunes if only we knew. I'm on the ipad or I'd add a bunch of gentle, huggy emoticons. 17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 What are these protections for your family that you need to have in place before you report it? Protection from the offender retaliating? Protection from church blow back? What is it that is causing you this worry? This raises red flags for me about your community. It's not an easy situation. I hope you get things figured out and the report filed. As for the work thing, I've fired clients for far less. If you can I would just return his deposit and be done with that entanglement. I am wondering, since he told his friends and peers about this, why he is telling only people in his peer group and not the pastor or the police. I suspect he is abusing his relationship with you and others to make himself feel like he's addressed the issue but he is only telling people he intuits would be, like you, hesitant to act on the information. It's a classic move and very manipulative. I am sorry he made this your problem. You know what needs to be done and I hope you will do it. 19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 My tone is gentle and quiet through this post: This whole situation sounds like a mess. I'm sad for you that you're stuck in the middle of it. You're getting upset with what we're saying on here, but you have information you're not sharing with us. Without the informational that you have that we don't know, your actions don't make sense. I'm not saying that accusingly. I'm only saying it so you understand that we're not deliberately picking on you or being mean to you just to be mean. We just don't understand why you are hesitating. We don't know what happened to your friend and we don't know what your reasons are or what problems you forsee. It's hard to give advice that is helpful without all the facts. We don't have all the facts. With the facts we do have, the advice we've given is good. It's almost impossible for us to think of what other facts might change our advice, so I think we're all collectively feeling frustration and wondering what other facts you have that are causing you to hesitate. I hope you update us with what ends up happening because this is an upsetting thread and I'd like to know the outcome for my own peace of mind. I'm thinking you're waiting for whatever reason but soon you'll turn in the letter and then we can all breathe a sigh of relief. I wish, I really wish, I could sound more supportive of you, but it's really hard to understand the situation with the limited facts we have. It's hard to take it on faith that you know something extra that would change all our tunes if only we knew. I'm on the ipad or I'd add a bunch of gentle, huggy emoticons. :iagree: :iagree: :iagree: Yes. This. Exactly. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErinE Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 We're talking about a long term work project here. The dilemma isn't how to keep the work contract. Quite the opposite. ETA: There's much more involved too. Much. I'm certain there's more. There's always more, which is why these predators get away with their crimes. Children aren't likely to be abused by a stranger. They are abused by people described as "such a nice person", "a good religious person", or "active in the community". 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 When we know there is more to the story, we don't have to know what that "more" is. We can be satisfied that we gave the best advice we could under the circumstances. Often on this board, people try to fill in the blanks and end up being quite inaccurate and sometimes hurtful. It isn't necessary. The OP told us from the first post that she wasn't going to share all the details. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamajag Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 Frankly, she should have just said she wasn't going to report it, put JAWM in the title, and save us all a lot of time. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purplejackmama Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 Frankly, she should have just said she wasn't going to report it, put JAWM in the title, and save us all a lot of time. This. So much this. And I wish there never would have mention of any financial ties to reporting him. Ewww. Just ewww. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slache Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 Frankly, she should have just said she wasn't going to report it, put JAWM in the title, and save us all a lot of time. She said she's learned a lot from this thread and that she's reporting it. Why would you regret helping someone in this situation? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albeto. Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 When we know there is more to the story, we don't have to know what that "more" is. We can be satisfied that we gave the best advice we could under the circumstances. Often on this board, people try to fill in the blanks and end up being quite inaccurate and sometimes hurtful. It isn't necessary. The OP told us from the first post that she wasn't going to share all the details. No, we don't "have" to know any of this, but the OP asked what we would do. She asked for advice. She asked for gentleness because she was wigging out, and understandably so. And the hive has backed her up. There's been a great deal of support her for her. But she's coming up with remarkably feeble excuses and bizarre assurances as to why, after all this time and all these reasons, she's neglected to do anything. I'm not the only one confused, and those asking for details are doing so in order to help her figure out what to do. This much should be obvious after even a casual reading of this thread. No one is filling in any blanks. I defy you to find one. SKL, I beg you to share an example of what possible mitigating circumstances you personally imagine yourself to explain sitting on evidence of a crime against a child. Please do share because I cannot conceive of such a thing myself. My imagination, as warped as it may be, simply cannot figure out even the most remotest possibilities. The OP sounds scared, I can understand, that to a point. I can't understand it for 5 days, but we all process shock differently. But you, you continually argue for giving the benefit of the doubt to the man who confessed to a crime, a disgusting, perverted, cruel one against his own child at that. I'm dead serious when I ask you to explain under what circumstances should I consider doing so? You keep asking, so now, please, share why. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albeto. Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 She said she's learned a lot from this thread and that she's reporting it. Why would you regret helping someone in this situation? Can you link to that post? I'm probably not the only one who missed it. Thanks. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 Frankly, she should have just said she wasn't going to report it, put JAWM in the title, and save us all a lot of time. I don't think you get to have a JAWM about this one. I mean, 99% of topics you can get a JAWM, but JAWM not to report a serious crime with a child victim isn't going to get you far. 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slache Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 Can you link to that post? I'm probably not the only one who missed it. Thanks. I'm on my phone. Gimme a few... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slache Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 Here's one but it's not the one I was thinking of. Still looking. Some of there (grown) children were there too.Their family has being going to this camp for many, many years. I have never not reported or looked the other way and have had to do very difficult things, as well. And will do the same in this situation, too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slache Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 I encountered a problem. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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