NOOOOOO!

[Butter]

I am a bit skeptical that the Nauglers truly do have Rh incompatibility.  They have had a lot of children with no Rh issues.  I'd be surprised if they got that lucky.  We don't hear about Rh problems today because it's standard treatment for most intelligent people.  Even if the father is Rh- they will usually push for an Rh- mom to get a shot because of the chance the claimed father isn't the actual father.

[mamakelly]

That's an interesting thought. Honestly after reading all the rh posts yesterday, I wondered how she could have had zero rh issues and so many kids.

[Mimm]

So maybe she's Rh- but they didn't bother testing Joe so he's probably Rh- too?

[Mergath]

So maybe she's Rh- but they didn't bother testing Joe so he's probably Rh- too?

 

Or she's full of it and made the whole thing up as a way to pander to her crazy anti-government base. Has she mentioned it on her blog or fb page before now?

[maize]

There are a variety of factors that can contribute to rh sensitization. Interestingly such sensitization is much more likely if the baby's ABO blood type matches the mother's. I don't know Nicole's blood group, but let's say her blood group is O-, and Joe's is A+ and he is homozygous AA and heterozygous Rh+/-. That would mean that all the kids would be ABO group A, so different from Nicole, and approximately half would be Rh- as well. It is actually not impossible under those circumstances that sensitization has never occurred, especially given that she did receive rhogam for at least some pregnancies.

 

All of which is pure speculation and does not make me worry less for the current baby.

[mellifera33]

Nm. :)

[Heather in VA]

There are a variety of factors that can contribute to rh sensitization. Interestingly such sensitization is much more likely if the baby's ABO blood type matches the mother's. I don't know Nicole's blood group, but let's say her blood group is O-, and Joe's is A+ and he is homozygous AA and heterozygous Rh+/-. That would mean that all the kids would be ABO group A, so different from Nicole, and approximately half would be Rh- as well. It is actually not impossible under those circumstances that sensitization has never occurred, especially given that she did receive rhogam for at least some pregnancies.

 

All of which is pure speculation and does not make me worry less for the current baby.

 

She said that Joe is O+ and that her babies have been both O- and O+ so she carries the risk of sensitization for herself and rh disease for her child with every pregnancy. Between the possibility of the heterozygous situation Maize describes here and that to the fact that she's had rhogam a few times it's possible she's either sensitized and not passed Rh disease along to her babies yet because they were rh- or that she is not YET sensitized. And yes I am yelling the word yet. Even if she isn't currently sensitized she is playing with fire. She isn't being tested so just because she hasn't had a problem doesn't mean it doesn't or won't exist. Not getting the shot is foolish but she won't do it because it would require prenatal care which would put the kid at risk for the evils of birth certificates and medical care. 

[Heather in VA]

Or she's full of it and made the whole thing up as a way to pander to her crazy anti-government base. Has she mentioned it on her blog or fb page before now?

 

If this is true than she is even more stupid that I thought, which is saying a lot. Nothing like broadcasting to the CPS that she's willfully ignoring the medical needs of her unborn child. 

[FaithManor]

I wish that were true. I used to see people questioning Rhogam all the time on mothering.com, saying things like, "Back before birth was medicalized, there was no such thing as Rh disease!"

 

There are even crazy websites suggesting that you can change your Rh factor using herbs and "detoxes." For example: http://tinkerbelle78.hubpages.com/hub/Natural-Birth-and-the-Rh-Negative-Mother

 

:svengo:  :banghead:  :banghead: :banghead:  

 

U.N.B.E.L.I.E.V.A.B.L.E.

 

I think my brain is bleeding from reading that!

[Jean in Newcastle]

She's lost one baby to miscarriage.  Was it due to that or is that just one of those tragedies that happens to anyone?  

[maize]

She's lost one baby to miscarriage.  Was it due to that or is that just one of those tragedies that happens to anyone?  

 

One miscarriage out of 12 pregnancies is actually fewer than average, so I wouldn't assume it was because of the rh issue.

 

ETA I'm not willing to blame any mama for a miscarriage, it happens far too often.

[Heather in VA]

One miscarriage out of 12 pregnancies is actually fewer than average, so I wouldn't assume it was because of the rh issue.

 

ETA I'm not willing to blame any mama for a miscarriage, it happens far to often.

 

I agree. Also, I might be wrong, but from what I understand miscarriage, i.e. pregnancy loss in the first trimester, is not usually a side effect of rh incompatibility. The affects usually come later and at birth. I am rh- and had three miscarriages but never was is discussed that the rh- situation was the cause. 1 miscarriage in 12 pregnancies is a very low miscarriage percentage so it's likely that it was just an unfortunate loss.

[intothefray]

I thought I read that she had 2 miscarriages in the story about Alex. I might be wrong.

[intothefray]

From "The Story Of Alex"

 

 

. During this time, I suffered a second miscarriage  It was the most devastating experience of my life to this day. Not only was I feeling the loss of the man I loved with all my heart, now I was dealing with the fact I may never carry a child. The doctors had chalked it up to endometreosis, and after my 2nd miscarriage, it was discovered I was also RH-.

[Jean in Newcastle]

One miscarriage out of 12 pregnancies is actually fewer than average, so I wouldn't assume it was because of the rh issue.

 

ETA I'm not willing to blame any mama for a miscarriage, it happens far too often.

No blame. Just medical curiosity.  A lot of you ladies know a lot more about pregnancy and birth than I do.  

[Butter]

and after my 2nd miscarriage, it was discovered I was also RH-.

 

She didn't know she was bloodtype- before her second miscarriage?  Really???

[Heather in VA]

From "The Story Of Alex"

 

 

. During this time, I suffered a second miscarriage  It was the most devastating experience of my life to this day. Not only was I feeling the loss of the man I loved with all my heart, now I was dealing with the fact I may never carry a child. The doctors had chalked it up to endometreosis, and after my 2nd miscarriage, it was discovered I was also RH-.

 

 

See now I would read this a bit differently than she actually says here. If she really was being treated by doctors (actual doctors) for miscarriages and was diagnosed with endometriosis they would have done blood work well before the 2nd miscarriage and her blood type would have been determined well before. So if at this point she claimed it was "discovered that she was rh-' it seems more likely to me that she was discovered to be rh sensitized. Your rh factor shouldn't be news after two miscarriages when being treated by doctors. Also, your rh factor in and of itself would not be a reason she could never carry a child. RH sensitivity, however, could be a reason to consider not carrying a child because despite what Tinkerbelle might think you can not change that.

 

Of course as we've said before all of this is subject to the fact that our information comes from Nicole so who knows what is really true.

[Heather in VA]

who is she referring to as "the  man she loved with all her heart'? Is that Joe? Clearly she didn't lose him.

[FaithManor]

Lost the man she loved with all her heart????

 

What on earth is that about? She didn't lose Joe? So was she having an affair or something?

 

I don't get it.

 

 

[Matryoshka]

Lost the man she loved with all her heart????

 

What on earth is that about? She didn't lose Joe? So was she having an affair or something?

 

I don't get it.

 

Well, that would actually make sense, that miscarriage with the Rh problem was with some other guy, and Joe's also Rh-

 

Or she's referring to while Joe was off hooking up with Alex's mother, in which case the Rh thing is still befuddling.

 

I have no idea.  Nothing she says makes sense.

 

[*Lulu*]

Nothing she says makes sense.

 

Ladies and gentlemen, the synopsis of the entire saga of Nicole in five words.

[Corraleno]

Well, that would actually make sense, that miscarriage with the Rh problem was with some other guy, and Joe's also Rh-

 

Or she's referring to while Joe was off hooking up with Alex's mother, in which case the Rh thing is still befuddling.

 

I have no idea.  Nothing she says makes sense.

 

 

Yes, she was talking about the time when she and Joe separated for a few months, and he hooked up with the woman who got pregnant with Alex. ETA: And after Alex was born, Joe was going back and forth between Texas/Nicole and New Hampshire/Alex's mother for a while until Nicole agreed to move to NH with him. She admits that she was very very jealous of Alex's mother (and vice versa).

 

Also, I believe that she mentioned somewhere else on the blog that she had a 3rd miscarriage, but that one was later, after she'd had at least a couple of successful pregnancies. 

[Heather in VA]

Ok - so she was with Joe, he got her pregnant then ran out and got Alex's mom pregnant and meanwhile Nicole had a miscarriage? Then she took him back????

 

This guy is a real peach.

[Corraleno]

Ok - so she was with Joe, he got her pregnant then ran out and got Alex's mom pregnant and meanwhile Nicole had a miscarriage? Then she took him back????

 

This guy is a real peach.

 

The first miscarriage was when they first got together, and the 2nd was after Alex's birth, during the time that Joe was "commuting" between the two states and two women.

 

Yeah, he's a real peach alright. I love how Nicole says she "can't imagine his struggle" during this time. Poor Joe, screwing two women while supporting neither of them. What a tough life.  :rolleyes:

 

[Catwoman]

Ok - so she was with Joe, he got her pregnant then ran out and got Alex's mom pregnant and meanwhile Nicole had a miscarriage? Then she took him back????

 

This guy is a real peach.

And Nicole is a complete and utter moron.

[*Lulu*]

..complete and utter moron.

Only four words, but not a complete sentence.

 

I'm gonna need you to up your game.

[Heather in VA]

The first miscarriage was when they first got together, and the 2nd was after Alex's birth, during the time that Joe was "commuting" between the two states and two women.

 

Yeah, he's a real peach alright. I love how Nicole says she "can't imagine his struggle" during this time. Poor Joe, screwing two women while supporting neither of them. What a tough life.  :rolleyes:

 

According to the Wiki page of  her arrest Joe didn't fight to get his parental rights back either. So I don't think he was that broken up about it. 

[Corraleno]

According to the Wiki page of  her arrest Joe didn't fight to get his parental rights back either. So I don't think he was that broken up about it. 

 

But this is just another example of the way the evil, corrupt government/CPS/court system steals people's children! Poor Joe couldn't afford to travel to NH to dispute all those horrible lies his entire family told about him, and the mean old judge wouldn't let him "appear" by phone, as Joe requested. He was persecuted for being poor! The fact that he didn't show up to any of the custody/TPR hearings has absolutely nothing to do with fear of being arrested and charged with child abuse. Nope, he's the poor innocent victim of a vast conspiracy to deprive a good honest man of his property, er, I mean, child.

[Renai]

I am a bit skeptical that the Nauglers truly do have Rh incompatibility.  They have had a lot of children with no Rh issues.  I'd be surprised if they got that lucky.  We don't hear about Rh problems today because it's standard treatment for most intelligent people.  Even if the father is Rh- they will usually push for an Rh- mom to get a shot because of the chance the claimed father isn't the actual father.

 

 

That's an interesting thought. Honestly after reading all the rh posts yesterday, I wondered how she could have had zero rh issues and so many kids.

 

She has mentioned losing babies. Who knows if it was an Rh issue? There was no testing, so it's probably anyone's guess. (I know next to nothing about Rh issues, so disregard if it does not apply.)

[Renai]

But this is just another example of the way the evil, corrupt government/CPS/court system steals people's children! Poor Joe couldn't afford to travel to NH to dispute all those horrible lies his entire family told about him, and the mean old judge wouldn't let him "appear" by phone, as Joe requested. He was persecuted for being poor! The fact that he didn't show up to any of the custody/TPR hearings has absolutely nothing to do with fear of being arrested and charged with child abuse. Nope, he's the poor innocent victim of a vast conspiracy to deprive a good honest man of his property, er, I mean, child.

 

Now with the info that he was commuting back and forth to visit his women, how is it that he didn't have the money anymore to claim his child???

[Renai]

She said that Joe is O+ and that her babies have been both O- and O+ so she carries the risk of sensitization for herself and rh disease for her child with every pregnancy. Between the possibility of the heterozygous situation Maize describes here and that to the fact that she's had rhogam a few times it's possible she's either sensitized and not passed Rh disease along to her babies yet because they were rh- or that she is not YET sensitized. And yes I am yelling the word yet. Even if she isn't currently sensitized she is playing with fire. She isn't being tested so just because she hasn't had a problem doesn't mean it doesn't or won't exist. Not getting the shot is foolish but she won't do it because it would require prenatal care which would put the kid at risk for the evils of birth certificates and medical care. 

 

Ok, she was posting/discussing the other day about her blood type on BLH. She had posted a chart of blood types/parents/child's,etc. Why am I thinking her  type was O? Or did she say that her mom was? I can't keep up. I can't even find the posts anymore because I don't remember what it was under. Oh, well. Others were pointing out that her reasoning was wrong and she was in danger of Rh sensitization, etc. Interesting convo. I wonder if it's still there. 

[Heather in VA]

Ok, she was posting/discussing the other day about her blood type on BLH. She had posted a chart of blood types/parents/child's,etc. Why am I thinking her  type was O? Or did she say that her mom was? I can't keep up. I can't even find the posts anymore because I don't remember what it was under. Oh, well. Others were pointing out that her reasoning was wrong and she was in danger of Rh sensitization, etc. Interesting convo. I wonder if it's still there. 

 

Yes the conversation is still there. I don't know if I'm allowed to link to it. Let me know if I'm allowed and I will. According to Nicole she is 0- (hence the rh- factor) and Joe is O+. That is the same combination as my husband and me so I know they are at risk for Rh sensitization. The funny thing is that I don't think she's claiming that their blood type combo isn't a risk. She is saying the blood of the mother and baby can't mix (which is what causes the antibodies to be formed in the mother's blood) unless there is an accident causing the mother to bleed or there is a major problem with the pregnancy. So she sees no reason to do the rhogam unless something bad happens. It just isn't that simple. Believe me, I am all for reducing medical interventions with birth. I really am. But this is not where you do it. It's a freaking shot. Get it. I honestly don't think it's about avoiding "unnecessary intervention" with her. It's about trying to make sure her kids don't have documentation or any of those other evils. 

[Renai]

When is the shot given? Couldn't she get the shot, then refuse other prenatal care, if she wanted? Or is it done during labor or something? Like I said, I have no idea.

[Butter]

She has mentioned losing babies. Who knows if it was an Rh issue? There was no testing, so it's probably anyone's guess. (I know next to nothing about Rh issues, so disregard if it does not apply.)

 

When is the shot given? Couldn't she get the shot, then refuse other prenatal care, if she wanted? Or is it done during labor or something? Like I said, I have no idea.

 

From http://www.acog.org/Patients/FAQs/The-Rh-Factor-How-It-Can-Affect-Your-Pregnancy(there are other Q&As there as well)

 

How does Rh sensitization affect the fetus during pregnancy?

Problems during pregnancy can occur when Rh antibodies from an Rh-sensitized woman cross the placenta and attack the blood of an Rh-positive fetus. The Rh antibodies destroy some of the fetal red blood cells. This causes hemolytic anemia, where red blood cells are destroyed faster than the body can replace them.

When is RhIg given?

RhIg is given to Rh-negative women in the following situations:

• At around the 28th week of pregnancy to prevent Rh sensitization for the rest of the pregnancy
• Within 72 hours after the delivery of an Rh-positive infant
• After a miscarriage, abortion, or ectopic pregnancy
• After amniocentesis or chorionic villus sampling

 

What if I am Rh sensitized and my fetus is Rh positive?

 

If you are Rh sensitized, you will be monitored during pregnancy to check the condition of your fetus. If tests show that your baby has severe anemia, it may be necessary to deliver your baby early (before 37 weeks of pregnancy) or give a bloodtransfusion while your baby is still in your uterus (through the umbilical cord). If the anemia is mild, your baby may be delivered at the normal time. After delivery, your baby may need a transfusion to replace the blood cells. 

 

Here's some info on how Rh sensitization can effect the outcome of pregnancies: http://miscarriage.about.com/od/miscarriagecauses/f/rh_miscarriage.htm

[Acorn]

There's a shot mid way through pregnancy that's just in case the rh- mom has placental bleeding or other emergency type blood mixing from fetus. Then after birth if baby is positive there is another shot.

 

Eta: previous poster did a much better and faster job

[Guest]

Yes the conversation is still there. I don't know if I'm allowed to link to it. Let me know if I'm allowed and I will. According to Nicole she is 0- (hence the rh- factor) and Joe is O+. That is the same combination as my husband and me so I know they are at risk for Rh sensitization. The funny thing is that I don't think she's claiming that their blood type combo isn't a risk. She is saying the blood of the mother and baby can't mix (which is what causes the antibodies to be formed in the mother's blood) unless there is an accident causing the mother to bleed or there is a major problem with the pregnancy. So she sees no reason to do the rhogam unless something bad happens. It just isn't that simple. Believe me, I am all for reducing medical interventions with birth. I really am. But this is not where you do it. It's a freaking shot. Get it. I honestly don't think it's about avoiding "unnecessary intervention" with her. It's about trying to make sure her kids don't have documentation or any of those other evils.

I think it is about her ego. She'll do anything to prove that she is right and needs no help or advice from anyone.

[historically accurate]

Yes the conversation is still there. I don't know if I'm allowed to link to it. Let me know if I'm allowed and I will. According to Nicole she is 0- (hence the rh- factor) and Joe is O+. That is the same combination as my husband and me so I know they are at risk for Rh sensitization. The funny thing is that I don't think she's claiming that their blood type combo isn't a risk. She is saying the blood of the mother and baby can't mix (which is what causes the antibodies to be formed in the mother's blood) unless there is an accident causing the mother to bleed or there is a major problem with the pregnancy. So she sees no reason to do the rhogam unless something bad happens. It just isn't that simple. Believe me, I am all for reducing medical interventions with birth. I really am. But this is not where you do it. It's a freaking shot. Get it. I honestly don't think it's about avoiding "unnecessary intervention" with her. It's about trying to make sure her kids don't have documentation or any of those other evils. 

 

 

OK, I just went and read this on her page.  Putting the Rh- and + factor aside for a moment.  She says she is O-, but her mother is AB+.  Now, Genetics was many, many years ago, but as far as I remember, her mother's children would be A or B, since both of those are dominant (O is recessive).  I am confused, but maybe I shouldn't be because she is a nutter...

[Butter]

It is possible, but very, very rare, for an AB parent to produce an O child.  http://genetics.thetech.org/ask/ask427

 

However, this is NN.  I don't believe anything she says.

[Renthead Mommy]

Lost the man she loved with all her heart????

 

What on earth is that about? She didn't lose Joe? So was she having an affair or something?

 

I don't get it.

 

I thought this referred to the time he was in jail for like six weeks? She was a "single mom" of two at that point I believe. She had a whole boo hoo about how hard it was to do it on her own, and missed him so much.

 

Were her misscarried before any of her pregnancies or where they during her ten kid run?

[Corraleno]

I thought this referred to the time he was in jail for like six weeks? She was a "single mom" of two at that point I believe. She had a whole boo hoo about how hard it was to do it on her own, and missed him so much.

 

No, the time he was in jail for 6 weeks was when they were living in the 4 BR mobile home, before they moved to the "homestead." I think she had 9 kids at that point. Someone from their church visited Nicole while Joe was in jail, to bring donations, and said that the house was filthy, the littles were dirty, smelly, and naked, and there was poop all over the place. 

 

Where her misscarried before any of her pregnancies or where they during her ten kid run?

 

Two of the miscarriages were before she had Jacob, and the 3rd was after, but I'm not sure how long after (could have been in between any of the other kids).

[Heather in VA]

No, the time he was in jail for 6 weeks was when they were living in the 4 BR mobile home, before they moved to the "homestead." I think she had 9 kids at that point. Someone from their church visited Nicole while Joe was in jail, to bring donations, and said that the house was filthy, the littles were dirty, smelly, and naked, and there was poop all over the place. 

 

 

Two of the miscarriages were before she had Jacob, and the 3rd was after, but I'm not sure how long after (could have been in between any of the other kids).

 

Has Nicole ever address the fact that Joe was in jail? Does she admit he was in jail and that isn't a good thing or is that someone else's fault too?

[Corraleno]

Has Nicole ever address the fact that Joe was in jail? Does she admit he was in jail and that isn't a good thing or is that someone else's fault too?

 

Of course it was someone else's fault! He was arrested for failure to appear at a hearing regarding the back child support, and spent 6 weeks in jail because they couldn't make bail (guess they hadn't figured out how to exploit GoFundMe yet!). But according to Nicole, it was totally not Joe's fault, because they didn't remember ever receiving notice of the hearing, and the government has no right to make him pay child support anyway. To her, this is just more proof that the government is out to get them.

 

In fact, they were very lucky that they got a lenient judge (who presumably didn't know Joe's reputation), because the judge not only greatly reduced the monthly child support payments, he only sentenced Joe to time served instead of the maximum he could have gotten. 

 

It's amazing how many times people have cut this family some slack, given them the benefit of the doubt, helped them out in spite of misgivings, not filed charges for threat/assault/vandalism/child abuse, not pursued them for debts when they took off, etc. For 20 years they've avoided having to face the consequences of their actions, and now that it's all finally caught up with them they seem unable to grasp the fact that their usual "solution" — threaten a few people, pack up, and leave town — isn't going to work this time. And it sure looks like there's never been a Plan B.

[Heather in VA]

Of course it was someone else's fault! He was arrested for failure to appear at a hearing regarding the back child support, and spent 6 weeks in jail because they couldn't make bail (guess they hadn't figured out how to exploit GoFundMe yet!). But according to Nicole, it was totally not Joe's fault, because they didn't remember ever receiving notice of the hearing, and the government has no right to make him pay child support anyway. To her, this is just more proof that the government is out to get them.

 

In fact, they were very lucky that they got a lenient judge (who presumably didn't know Joe's reputation), because the judge not only greatly reduced the monthly child support payments, he only sentenced Joe to time served instead of the maximum he could have gotten. 

 

It's amazing how many times people have cut this family some slack, given them the benefit of the doubt, helped them out in spite of misgivings, not filed charges for threat/assault/vandalism/child abuse, not pursued them for debts when they took off, etc. For 20 years they've avoided having to face the consequences of their actions, and now that it's all finally caught up with them they seem unable to grasp the fact that their usual "solution" — threaten a few people, pack up, and leave town — isn't going to work this time. And it sure looks like there's never been a Plan B.

 

This is what is so comical about their crying persecution and government over-reach. Time and time again they have been cut slack that they didn't deserve. Over and over people tried to help instead of punish. And yet now, they act like  they are being treated in a way no one else is. That's actually true - most other people don't get this much slack. 

[annandatje]

Per Nicole's blogs, they have been reported to CPS in Texas, Maine and multiple times in Kentucky.  Allegedly  all calls were baseless and made out of spite.  She implies that the Texas anonymous call was related to big ole meanies trying to steal Alex Naugler away from his father.  The Maine caller claimed that the Naugler home was filthy.  The odds of unfounded CPS contact in three states is exceedingly low in my opinion although I have no statistics to back up my assumption.

 

 

[Heather in VA]

Per Nicole's blogs, they have been reported to CPS in Texas, Maine and multiple times in Kentucky.  Allegedly  all calls were baseless and made out of spite.  She implies that the Texas anonymous call was related to big ole meanies trying to steal Alex Naugler away from his father.  The Maine caller claimed that the Naugler home was filthy.  The odds of unfounded CPS contact in three states is exceedingly low in my opinion although I have no statistics to back up my assumption.

 

I agree that it's very unlikely those were unfounded situations, especially when the current CPS situation is clearly warranted just by looking at the evidence Nicole herself provided.

[Mimm]

I've never seen the Nauglers take responsibility for anything. Their talent for coming for with excuses for every little thing is pretty impressive.

[Heather in VA]

I've never seen the Nauglers take responsibility for anything. Their talent for coming for with excuses for every little thing is pretty impressive.

 

They are very good at it. They've had a lot of practice.

[KungFuPanda]

But this is just another example of the way the evil, corrupt government/CPS/court system steals people's children! Poor Joe couldn't afford to travel to NH to dispute all those horrible lies his entire family told about him, and the mean old judge wouldn't let him "appear" by phone, as Joe requested. He was persecuted for being poor! The fact that he didn't show up to any of the custody/TPR hearings has absolutely nothing to do with fear of being arrested and charged with child abuse. Nope, he's the poor innocent victim of a vast conspiracy to deprive a good honest man of his property, er, I mean, child.

Wait? He can drive back and forth for booty calls but not court dates??? Is he too poor for gas or not?

[Corraleno]

Per Nicole's blogs, they have been reported to CPS in Texas, Maine and multiple times in Kentucky.  Allegedly  all calls were baseless and made out of spite.  She implies that the Texas anonymous call was related to big ole meanies trying to steal Alex Naugler away from his father.  The Maine caller claimed that the Naugler home was filthy.  The odds of unfounded CPS contact in three states is exceedingly low in my opinion although I have no statistics to back up my assumption.

 

Especially when you consider that so many of the reports seem to have certain factors in common: filthy home, neglected children, and poop everywhere. Even before they had their own kids, Alex claimed that Joe would make him poop in a cardboard box. WTH is up with the Nauglers that makes them wanna poop in a bucket or on the floor or in the yard even when a toilet is available???  Maybe they're so used to having their water turned off for nonpayment, that they just reflexively poop in the yard even when they're visiting people with working toilets?

 

I guess I can see why the "shack" doesn't seem as shockingly inadequate to them as it does to everyone else, if they've been used to pooping wherever they want and not having water or heat or electricity (due to utilities being shut off) even when they lived in an actual house. To most people, it would be a huge step down from a 4 BR mobile home to a tiny 3-sided shack made of sticks and tarps, but if the mobile home had no utilities, and 3 of the 4 BRs were locked in order to force the kids to sleep in a big pile on the LR floor anyway, and there were naked babies and dogs pooping on the floor while adults and older children used a bucket, then I guess I can see them looking at the "shack" and thinking it's not much different from what they had, just cheaper.

 

I think that's probably a big part of the disconnect in this case — normal people look at the Nauglers' photos and think "OMG how can anyone live like that???" while the Nauglers are thinking "we've lived like this for 20 years, it's perfectly normal, just a little smaller and draftier than usual." 

[KungFuPanda]

Especially when you consider that so many of the reports seem to have certain factors in common: filthy home, neglected children, and poop everywhere. Even before they had their own kids, Alex claimed that Joe would make him poop in a cardboard box. WTH is up with the Nauglers that makes them wanna poop in a bucket or on the floor or in the yard even when a toilet is available??? Maybe they're so used to having their water turned off for nonpayment, that they just reflexively poop in the yard even when they're visiting people with working toilets?

 

I guess I can see why the "shack" doesn't seem as shockingly inadequate to them as it does to everyone else, if they've been used to pooping wherever they want and not having water or heat or electricity (due to utilities being shut off) even when they lived in an actual house. To most people, it would be a huge step down from a 4 BR mobile home to a tiny 3-sided shack made of sticks and tarps, but if the mobile home had no utilities, and 3 of the 4 BRs were locked in order to force the kids to sleep in a big pile on the LR floor anyway, and there were naked babies and dogs pooping on the floor while adults and older children used a bucket, then I guess I can see them looking at the "shack" and thinking it's not much different from what they had, just cheaper.

 

I think that's probably a big part of the disconnect in this case — normal people look at the Nauglers' photos and think "OMG how can anyone live like that???" while the Nauglers are thinking "we've lived like this for 20 years, it's perfectly normal, just a little smaller and draftier than usual."

I'm thinking the shack might be healthier. That many bodies in one space probably takes care of heat and the increased airflow must cut down on the stench. The rain washes the 'stuff' into the pond. I'll bet their other homes didn't have rain or air to help clean things out. It looks like the sort of forts my brothers would build and beg to camp in. Probably not bad for a few nights in the summer when you can go inside to use the bathroom, shower, and kitchen, but as a permanent residence? There is just something seriously wrong with anyone thinking it's ok. There are primitive societies that know how to make simple living work. I just don't think you can go back in time any length and find a time period where anyone lived this way. It's not about money or level of education. It's about them both missing some basic survival instincts. The Lord of the Flies kids were more hygienic!