Meadowlark Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 Help! I posted and sold 5 brand new Singapore books on homeschoolclassifieds.com. I sent them out last Tuesday. Much to my utter disbelief, the buyer emailed me this morning and said there were only 2 books in the box. I am dumbfounded. I am 1000% positive I included all 5 books. I searched my house where I keep curriculum, and they are not here. I even remember how I packed them, 2 on one side, 3 on the other. I do have the receipt but didn't get insurance. What do I do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trulycrabby Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 Hello, I am sorry. :grouphug: Did you send the items via USPS Media Mail? If so, the box may have been opened at the post office (a certain percentage of MM packages are opened and inspected), and the books may have been lost during or after that point. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meadowlark Posted March 8, 2015 Author Share Posted March 8, 2015 The buyer said it was semi opened on one end. Yes, media mail. What can I do? Surely, something? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanvan Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 You are going to have to work out some sort of refund to the buyer if you used paypal. See if she will take a certain about, otherwise paypal will require you to refund the full amount. Lots of threads here describe similar situations. When this happened to me (as the buyer) I was willing to work with the seller, but she refused to do anything for me, so paypal made her give me ALL of my money back. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustEm Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 Yeah it sounds like they opened the package at the post office and either took out books they deemed no proper media mail or were just sloppy with making sure everything got back in the package. You'll have to work it out with her. As a seller I would refund the amount that the missing books were worth. Some. Buyers would be fine with this but if it's hard to find the books to go with the ones she has she may not want any of the books without all of them. In that case I find it reasonable that she would want a full refund and would have no problem giving it to her. I sell a lot of books on amazon and its just one of the annoying calculated risks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plansrme Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 I had a buyer on this board flat-out lie to me about not having received one of the two items that were packaged together. I did not send it media mail, and I am 100% sure I sent her both items. It was a scam to get around the delivery confirmation. I told her I knew she had the items but refunded her entire purchase price and told her karma is a bitch, or something like that. I am not necessarily recommending that approach, but it is quite possible your buyer is lying. People do, you know. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meadowlark Posted March 8, 2015 Author Share Posted March 8, 2015 Wow, this is horrible. She said the package was semi opened so I don't think she's lying. I find it hard to believe that either the post office or paypal wouldn't protect the buyer or seller in this case. Well, if PayPal makes me refund the entire amount, I guess it does protect the buyer. But what about the seller? It claims seller protection so what is that worth if not this? I am flabbergasted. I will be out over $50 which will hurt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunflowerlady Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 Weird things do happen with the post office system. Several years ago, I sold a book that they buyer said she never received. I asked her to wait a bit longer and then when it didn't show up, I refunded her money. Time went by and I didn't think anymore about it. Well, one day I got a very odd thing in the mail. It was a baggie of some sort with just a scrap left out of the book. It had been destroyed somehow along the process and the postal system sent be back the remains. :huh: So, it is entirely possible that the package got opened somehow and books were lost. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-rap Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 Sorry it happened. This is a case where you both have to trust each other, because really, what else can you do? I'd offer to pay for half of what was lost. You will both have taken a loss, but will hopefully end on good terms. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 I never send multiple items media mail and I always get at least delivery confirmation. I've had more than one instance (not just homeschooling sales) where it is lost in media mail. I once received a box, which was supposed to be one hardback textbook (paperback swap). Instead there was a huge t-shirt. I know the textbook had been in there because of the initial cost of postage. I've had a few other things never show, or I've had items received damaged in the "we're sorry" envelope. I agree that without proof or insurance the onus is on you and I would see if they'd be happy with a partial refund. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 I had a buyer on this board flat-out lie to me about not having received one of the two items that were packaged together. I did not send it media mail, and I am 100% sure I sent her both items. It was a scam to get around the delivery confirmation. I told her I knew she had the items but refunded her entire purchase price and told her karma is a bitch, or something like that. I am not necessarily recommending that approach, but it is quite possible your buyer is lying. People do, you know. And sometimes the USPS or other shipping company screws up, and neither the seller nor buyer is at fault or lying. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G5052 Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 For anything over $20, I use Priority Mail. If it's skinny, you can order padded envelopes from the Post Office. Anything below that, I just eat it if it gets lost or doesn't arrive in one piece. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plansrme Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 And sometimes the USPS or other shipping company screws up, and neither the seller nor buyer is at fault or lying. Yes, but odds are that the buyer lied. The package had not been opened; I sent it first class; and the item she supposedly received was by far the cheaper of the two. People lie. They lie a lot. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trulycrabby Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 Yes, people lie a lot, but the best way a seller can protect herself is to always ship at least First Class Mail and always purchase insurance and specify the package must be signed for upon arrival. Yes, it's expensive and bothersome, but otherwise the seller is unprotected and must give a refund/partial refund if material is lost/damaged/stolen/lied about. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plansrme Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 Yes, people lie a lot, but the best way a seller can protect herself is to always ship at least First Class Mail and always purchase insurance and specify the package must be signed for upon arrival. Yes, it's expensive and bothersome, but otherwise the seller is unprotected and must give a refund/partial refund if material is lost/damaged/stolen/lied about. This doesn't protect you if you send multiple items in the same package, but the buyer claims she only received one of your items. This is why buyers claim not to have received the full order--they know you have delivery confirmation, so you know they received a package. Delivery confirmation does not guarantee that the package contains anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trulycrabby Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 This doesn't protect you if you send multiple items in the same package, but the buyer claims she only received one of your items. This is why buyers claim not to have received the full order--they know you have delivery confirmation, so you know they received a package. Delivery confirmation does not guarantee that the package contains anything. ...which is why I specified shipping insurance plus signature upon delivery rather than delivery confirmation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty ethel rackham Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 This is why I don't send anything media mail anymore. I have been on the selling end and buying end of opened packages and missing contents - so much so that I never actually made money on the items I sold after packaging costs. Even if you have the package inspected at the post office, they can inspect it again at any point in the delivery process. I do priority mail, insurance and delivery confirmation for everything I sell online, now. If they don't like it, they don't buy from me. I think I will go for signature upon delivery as well. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plansrme Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 ...which is why I specified shipping insurance plus signature upon delivery rather than delivery confirmation. That STILL does not protect you if the buyer is going to say the package was not complete. No one opens a package and inspects the contents while the postal carrier waits. I am not even sure the post office will let you do that. The buyer is saying that she got "a" package with her signature, not verifying the contents of the package. There is really no way to protect against a buyer who claims something is missing from a package. You could send every item in a separate package, I suppose, but once you pay for five packages, you might as well burn your stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsuga Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 This is why my ex-h used to photograph all packages at the post office--happened to him more than once on e-bay. He was a jerk but not a thief and it drove him nuts. I am sorry. Buyer blacklist. :( 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanny Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 The Shipper paying for Insurance, for the full value of the shipment, would, hopefully, protect the Shipper in a case like this. From what I have read,about shipments of small packages, by large Shippers,there is not much, if any, difference in the percentage of shipments that are lost or damaged, regardless of the carrier or the class of service. It can be DHL GlobalMail, FedEx SmartPost, the most or least expensive UPS service or USPS service and the percentage of shipments reported lost or damaged is about the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 If *I* received a package and it was damaged, *I* would take a picture and immediately notify the shipper, even before opening. If she didn't do that, then I assume she's a liar. Thing is, you probably have no recourse with paypal and have been had, which she knows. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephanieZ Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 My guess is that the items fell out in the mail. That's just a risk you take shipping without insurance and tracking. I'd refund the buyer whatever seems fair to the buyer (either most or all the purchase price of the 5 books), and call it a loss. Sorry that happened to you! I've sold/shipped dozens of items over the years, and once a (poorly wrapped) packages was destroyed/lost in the mail. I just refunded and apologized. Lesson learned . . . I packed all future items more carefully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erica in OR Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 I'm shocked media mail would even be there that quickly. Is that the norm for others? Hasn't been for me. Erica in OR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FO4UR Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 I haven't had good luck with media mail. I had an expensive demolished box that I sold to someone I trust completely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OhioMomof3 Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 I sold someone a full Tapestry of Grace curriculum with all the extras. I sent it Media Mail, and then I received an envelope from the USPS with the top of my box (which had been cut off) and a note, explaining that they didn't know where the contents of the box had gone. I couldn't believe it!!! How could 4 huge (2 or 3-inch) binders filled with paper, several cds, and a book just disappear? Luckily, I had insurance to cover everything. I think the buyer probably didn't believe me when I emailed her, telling her what happened. Anyway, I called Tapestry of Grace and ordered all new curriculum, and I had them ship it directly to the buyer. Then I went through the process of getting my insurance check from USPS. They denied the claim the first time, and I went through extra hassle to finally get reimbursed. I can't remember exactly how long it took to get my money back from this situation, but I know that more than three months passed as I waited. Needless to say, I don't use Media Mail anymore. Sorry about your situation. I just wanted to share my story, because your situation could have been a similar issue as mine (USPS incompetence) and not a untruthful buyer. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PollyOR Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 I ordered from Memoria Press last year and had the "torn, repacked, reconstructed" box sent to me. No paperwork from Memoria Press or the USPS. Half the contents were missing and some of the books were dirty/bent as if they had landed on the floor. A couple of days later the second box arrived with a tear but otherwise intact. I took pictures and sent them to MP. I don't know how the USPS works, but I have first hand experience that boxes can be ripped open and they don't acknowledge that anything was lost. They just reconstruct the box and send it on it's way. It isn't always a dishonest buy or seller situation. Edited to add: Memoria Press was wonderful to work with! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Sorry it happened. This is a case where you both have to trust each other, because really, what else can you do? I'd offer to pay for half of what was lost. You will both have taken a loss, but will hopefully end on good terms. I think the seller is responsible if a buyer doesn't receive what she ordered, and that is generally how PayPal sees it as well. If someone orders something, the seller is responsible for getting it to her safely, and if the package doesn't arrive or is incomplete or damaged on arrival, the seller owes the buyer a refund. I know it seems unfair to the seller, but that is why it's so important to pack everything incredibly securely and to purchase insurance on the packages they send. I don't think a buyer should lose any money on something she ordered but did not receive, because she has no control over the package. In this case, I would hate to have to do it, but I would give the buyer a full refund. I know she received a few of the books she ordered, but if it was a set, 2 out of 5 books won't do her any good. Again, I do feel badly for Meadowlark as I'm sure the post office is entirely to blame, but the buyer shouldn't be penalized because the post office mangled a package. What a rotten situation. :( 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanny Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 I'm shocked media mail would even be there that quickly. Is that the norm for others? Hasn't been for me. Erica in OR If your USPS packages go via the Federal Way WA facility I understand that is a bottleneck. A few weeks ago, we received a textbook for DD sent from a small town in OH for DD via USPS Media Mail. I understand the USPS normally picks up from them about 330 in the afternoon. It was in Columbus that night and in less than 48 hours went to Miami ,Florida and was delivered, in less than 48 hours from pick up time. It had been "out for delivery" in the morning and if they had delivered it in the morning, instead of returning it to the post office, it would have been about 42 hours after pickup. Sometimes USPS Media Mail does awesome work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Meadowlark, on 08 Mar 2015 - 07:25 AM, said:Meadowlark, on 08 Mar 2015 - 07:25 AM, said:Wow, this is horrible. She said the package was semi opened so I don't think she's lying. I find it hard to believe that either the post office or paypal wouldn't protect the buyer or seller in this case. Well, if PayPal makes me refund the entire amount, I guess it does protect the buyer. But what about the seller? It claims seller protection so what is that worth if not this? I am flabbergasted. I will be out over $50 which will hurt. that's why as a shipper I *always* get insurance from the post office if it's more than I want to write off if lost, and always get tracking. ups and fedex generally including insurance for the first $100. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Catwoman, on 09 Mar 2015 - 12:29 AM, said: I think the seller is responsible if a buyer doesn't receive what she ordered, and that is generally how PayPal sees it as well. If someone orders something, the seller is responsible for getting it to her safely, and if the package doesn't arrive or is incomplete or damaged on arrival, the seller owes the buyer a refund. I know it seems unfair to the seller, but that is why it's so important to pack everything incredibly securely and to purchase insurance on the packages they send. I don't think a buyer should lose any money on something she ordered but did not receive, because she has no control over the package. In this case, I would hate to have to do it, but I would give the buyer a full refund. I know she received a few of the books she ordered, but if it was a set, 2 out of 5 books won't do her any good. Again, I do feel badly for Meadowlark as I'm sure the post office is entirely to blame, but the buyer shouldn't be penalized because the post office mangled a package. What a rotten situation. :( :iagree: I recently purchased a number of breakable items from ebay. it was amazing the difference in quality of the packing. there are tutorials out there for how to pack and not have items broken. I'm sad one of my more unique items arrived with a long crack. the seller had insurance to cover her loss, and paypal refunded me the entire price. (I got to keep it. . . I wanted to use it - which I can't, not display it.) it wasn't packed particularly well - and I do blame how the seller packed it for the breakage. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 plansrme, on 08 Mar 2015 - 10:32 AM, said:That STILL does not protect you if the buyer is going to say the package was not complete. No one opens a package and inspects the contents while the postal carrier waits. I am not even sure the post office will let you do that. The buyer is saying that she got "a" package with her signature, not verifying the contents of the package. There is really no way to protect against a buyer who claims something is missing from a package. You could send every item in a separate package, I suppose, but once you pay for five packages, you might as well burn your stuff. but if the box is damaged enough that it is apparent from the outside when delivered - the buyer can refuse delivery and it goes back to the shipper. but that will only happen with a signature confirmation. everyone just dumps packages by the door. I'm lucky if they knock or ring the bell. the usps person who is too lazy to bring them to the front door (most delivery people go there for packages) but leaves them on top of the recycle bin at my side door makes me crazy . . . I've had packages almost end up in my recycle bin. and it is *always* usps. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanvan Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 I sold someone a full Tapestry of Grace curriculum with all the extras. I sent it Media Mail, and then I received an envelope from the USPS with the top of my box (which had been cut off) and a note, explaining that they didn't know where the contents of the box had gone. I couldn't believe it!!! How could 4 huge (2 or 3-inch) binders filled with paper, several cds, and a book just disappear? Luckily, I had insurance to cover everything. I think the buyer probably didn't believe me when I emailed her, telling her what happened. Anyway, I called Tapestry of Grace and ordered all new curriculum, and I had them ship it directly to the buyer. Then I went through the process of getting my insurance check from USPS. They denied the claim the first time, and I went through extra hassle to finally get reimbursed. I can't remember exactly how long it took to get my money back from this situation, but I know that more than three months passed as I waited. Needless to say, I don't use Media Mail anymore. Sorry about your situation. I just wanted to share my story, because your situation could have been a similar issue as mine (USPS incompetence) and not a untruthful buyer. ​Yes. I also wanted to add that insurance is not always the magic answer. Actually getting your money on an insured item is a very big hassle that requires dedication and determination, and still you may not get your money back in the end. The USPO damaged a painting my husband sent to a gallery and even with photos and insurance he could not get them to cough up any money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Have you checked with the post office? My fuzzy memory thought there was an automatic $50 worth of insurance, but that might not include media mail. I know it's true for boxes we send to my guys in college. I never bother with insurance unless the content is worth more than $50. Sorry there have been problems. Did the buyer take pics? That will be important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 I had a set of books shipped from American School through UPS that never arrived to my door because the box arrived in Houston empty! The school sent new books at no cost to me. I guess someone REALLY wanted some high school textbooks! I always ship flat rate priority mail even though I charge media mail rate when I sell things here. It is not worth the hassel of things being lost or damaged. Buyers lie..its so true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firefly Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Many moons ago I ordered a group of magazines off of eBay (10 issues) that were sent in a box via media mail. The box was damaged when I received it- it looked like the top had split in transit and it was re-taped with USPS tape. There were only 4 issues in the box. I was so bummed out. The seller had shipped it and would not refund me any money and I didn't push it because I felt she was right- she DID ship it, so fulfilled her end of the sale. I did talk to the post office but they basically said damage or loss in transit is a risk you take with Media Mail. I was S.O.L. Sorry this happened to you. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Many moons ago I ordered a group of magazines off of eBay (10 issues) that were sent in a box via media mail. The box was damaged when I received it- it looked like the top had split in transit and it was re-taped with USPS tape. There were only 4 issues in the box. I was so bummed out. The seller had shipped it and would not refund me any money and I didn't push it because I felt she was right- she DID ship it, so fulfilled her end of the sale. I did talk to the post office but they basically said damage or loss in transit is a risk you take with Media Mail. I was S.O.L. Sorry this happened to you. :( If you had filed a complaint, eBay probably would have sided with you. It was up to the seller to use a strong box and tape the package securely so it wouldn't split open. She shipped the package, but if she didn't pack your items securely enough for them to get to you in good shape, she didn't fulfill her end of the bargain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katy Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 I think it's probable that in this case the box was ripped open. I've had a few friends who worked at UPS when they were in college and I heard HORROR STORIES about the way shipping companies treat packages. However, one of my college roommates was the type of person who would brag about scamming people. As often as possible. So people like that do exist, even if they're few & far between. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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